View Full Version : Scotland to take England, bit by bit?
I saw a piece on Sky News today that the residents of Berwick upon Tweed would like to become part of Scotland once more - or maybe more precisely they see the benefits afforded to those resident in Scotland and think they are far superior to what they get. Is this the modern way for us to take England?
http://news.sky.com/skynews/article/0,,30100-1305012,00.html?f=rss
http://www.dcthomson.co.uk/MAGS/POST/news1.htm
Valerie Campbell
12-Feb-08, 15:31
If Berwick became part of Scotland again, does that mean the 10 miles or so north of it would become part of Scotland too, so the border would need shifted? Or would Berwick just be a piece of Scotland surrounded by England?
northener
12-Feb-08, 15:42
I saw a piece on Sky News today that the residents of Berwick upon Tweed would like to become part of Scotland once more - or maybe more precisely they see the benefits afforded to those resident in Scotland and think they are far superior to what they get. Is this the modern way for us to take England?
http://news.sky.com/skynews/article/0,,30100-1305012,00.html?f=rss (http://forum.caithness.org/go.php?url=http://news.sky.com/skynews/article/0,,30100-1305012,00.html?f=rss)
http://www.dcthomson.co.uk/MAGS/POST/news1.htm
Ahhh, you're falling into the trap Scotsboy.
Whilst you Scots are all looking to the south for a Scots land-grab all us English are grabbing the Far North and Western Isles from you!
Now you've got the English on two sides! HaHaaar:D
I can see the border signs now:
"Welcome to Scotland - The most northerly county of England"
Seriously though, it wouldn't suprise me if they did want to change.
.
Why not.Their football team already plays in the scottish league.They are or seem to be loyal to scotland.I am english and dont see why not.I would rather be under scottish parliment than english ............
In Scotland the perception is that the Scottish Parliament is ineffective (or maybe that was just my own perception), however in reality it seems to be doing such a good job that many people in England are very envious. Credit where credit is due I suppose.
NickInTheNorth
12-Feb-08, 16:52
In Scotland the perception is that the Scottish Parliament is ineffective (or maybe that was just my own perception), however in reality it seems to be doing such a good job that many people in England are very envious. Credit where credit is due I suppose.
Well I'm in Scotland and my perception is the the Scottish Parliament is doing a pretty good job, especially now that it is not controlled by the party in power in Westminster.
The Parliament is far more in touch with grass roots opinion on most issues. It seems to listen when ordinary folks speak. It is certainly far more capable of holding the Executive to account than the emasculated talking shop down south.
I think that the Mother of Parliaments could learn some very valuable lessons from the infant!
Well I'm in Scotland and my perception is the the Scottish Parliament is doing a pretty good job, especially now that it is not controlled by the party in power in Westminster.
The Parliament is far more in touch with grass roots opinion on most issues. It seems to listen when ordinary folks speak. It is certainly far more capable of holding the Executive to account than the emasculated talking shop down south.
I think that the Mother of Parliaments could learn some very valuable lessons from the infant!
Yes, I think I agree Nick. Obviously I do not live in Scotland anymore, and base my opinion on the news (tv, internet etc) and coversations with people when I come back (not often). So it is probably more my perception - but it appears that the Scottish Assembly (or whatever it is called) is doing a damn fine job.
northener
12-Feb-08, 17:17
Yup, doing a damn fine job on the whole.
I don't necessarily agree with the SNP's stance on a number of subjects but that shouldn't detract from the good work being done by all the MSP's, regardless of their politics.
.
percy toboggan
12-Feb-08, 18:07
The perception south of the border is that the Scottish Executive, or Government if you wish to put it that way is indeed doing a very good. Of distributing English taxpayers money. I don't begrudge my share of it one bit.
I cannot blame the peope of Berwick for wishing to return to Scots rule, this time with not a drop of blood being spilt.
Perversely the momentum for Scottish independence is growing much faster in England, than in Scotland. Presumably because canny Scots know when they're on to a good thing.
If independence comes I just hope the door is still open to me, a humble Englishman c.2016....if not I shall have to change my name to Podacrqyszcski...or some such....and turn up looking for low paid skivvy work a pensioner can manage.
Whitewater
12-Feb-08, 23:03
If independence comes I just hope the door is still open to me, a humble Englishman c.2016....if not I shall have to change my name to Podacrqyszcski...or some such....and turn up looking for low paid skivvy work a pensioner can manage.
The door will always be open to people like you Percy, and you won't have to change your name, "Toboggan" will be fine.
Many people from Australia, America, Canada and New Zealand have returned to the land of their parents to trace their roots, and have decided to stay. We have a good wee country here, could do better at the Rugby, but we are respected as nation throughout the world.
Ahhh, you're falling into the trap Scotsboy.
Whilst you Scots are all looking to the south for a Scots land-grab all us English are grabbing the Far North and Western Isles from you!
Now you've got the English on two sides! HaHaaar:D
I can see the border signs now:
"Welcome to Scotland - The most northerly county of England"
.That would be funny if it wasn't so true.
I think that the Mother of Parliaments could learn some very valuable lessons from the infant!Scotland was not always the infant but in fact the mature innovator.
The perception south of the border is that the Scottish Executive, or Government if you wish to put it that way is indeed doing a very good. Of distributing English taxpayers money. I don't begrudge my share of it one bit.
I cannot blame the peope of Berwick for wishing to return to Scots rule, this time with not a drop of blood being spilt.
Perversely the momentum for Scottish independence is growing much faster in England, than in Scotland. Presumably because canny Scots know when they're on to a good thing.
If independence comes I just hope the door is still open to me, a humble Englishman c.2016....if not I shall have to change my name to Podacrqyszcski...or some such....and turn up looking for low paid skivvy work a pensioner can manage.Westminster is doing a good job of distributing our oil revenue, I don't begrudge my share one little bit.
Why take a low paid skivvy job when you can remain an HGV driver at a lower rate than you receive now. Agency drivers are all the rage now.
gillian17
13-Feb-08, 00:07
Last time I voted in Scotland the SNP was campaigning for independence. And the freedom to join the European Union.
How perverse can a party get?
Last time I voted in Scotland the SNP was campaigning for independence. And the freedom to join the European Union.
How perverse can a party get?If you think they are perverse it matters not, they are doing a brilliant job of running this country and the labour party are not being overly missed. Result.;)
Last time I voted in Scotland the SNP was campaigning for independence. And the freedom to join the European Union.
How perverse can a party get?
The Scottish people were never consulted about the Union....in fact it went through despite riots, petitions etc.
There will be a vote on EU membership in an independent Scotland.....that is what freedom means.
The Scottish people were never consulted about the Union....in fact it went through despite riots, petitions etc.
Riots!!!!!!!! when do tell Oddquine?, petitions maybe :roll:
I've heard that there is a leaked Government dossier which outlines plans to bankroll Berwick Rangers to the top of the SPL as a sweetener to persuade Berwick citizens from breaking away to Scotland. It might work, no?:confused
I've heard that there is a leaked Government dossier which outlines plans to bankroll Berwick Rangers to the top of the SPL as a sweetener to persuade Berwick citizens from breaking away to Scotland. It might work, no?:confusedChelsea couldn't bankroll themselves to the European Cup what hope have Berwick of bankrolling themselves anywhere?[lol]
It might interest you to know that The Salvation Army corps in Berwick-upon-Tweed is included in the East Scotland Division, whose headquarters are based in Edinburgh. :) Administratively its a night mare because charity law and legislation is completely different in the two countries.
Good old Berwick...they know where their bread is buttered :)
Big hughie
13-Feb-08, 16:06
In 1707 the Union of Parliaments of Scotland and England was forced through by bribes and under the threat of armed invasion by England. The Treaty of Union was a commercialist document and could never be regarded as a Scottish "constitution".
In Scotland the Treaty was never ratified by the Scots Parliament, not having received a two-thirds majority of those present and voting. Throughout Scotland there were major riots, and Daniel Defoe (an English spy in Edinburgh) observed that the people were one hundred to one against it.
Since 1707 there have been numerous breaches of this Treaty, which lead to the conclusion that the treaty has become void and invalid.
Article VI, protected Scots agriculture from overseas competition. Yet this was initially broken in 1846 with the Repeal of the Corn Laws.
Article VII, "the same excises upon all excisable liquors". Excise duty discriminates against Scotch whisky and favours imported wines and beer.
Article VIII, equality for export of cured fish. However, the British Govt sacrificed the largest part of Scots European trade, that with Russia, to satisfy English Anti-Bolshevism (c1918).
Article XVI, preservation of a Scottish Mint. Now abolished, with the monopolistic position of The Bank of England having supremacy over Scots banks.
Article XXII, rights of Scottish Royal Burghs to remain. Abolished under local Govt reform in the 1920s and 1970s.
Article XVIII, taxes in England and Scotland to be the same. The Poll Tax (1989) illegally introduced a tax on Scotland that was not applicable in England.
Introduction of the English Law of Treason and the removal of Jacobites to stand trial in England.Out of the original 25 Articles of the Treaty, 9 have been wholly repealed by Westminster, and 5 have been materially altered. After the loss of her Parliament in 1707, Scotland, because of England's wars, lost most of her trade with European countries.
Further, due to punitive taxes and Westminster lassitude, indigenous Scots whisky, fishing, agriculture, tourism and manufacturing industries have suffered increasingly in recent years of globalisation.
Beeeg Hugheeeeeeeee
PS Acticle V111 caused a heck of a lot of hardship around the North of Scotland especially in Wick Buckie and Fraserburgh
I keep hearing all this mince, but the simple factis that Scotland is very much part of and at the centre of the UNITED KINGDOM.
Big hughie
13-Feb-08, 16:59
What do mean mince????? Im just stating facts
Anyway I see by your remarks earlier that you are a Unionist and see by your address you dont even live within the Union you dearly wish to keep
Beeeeg Hugheeeeeeeeeeeeeee
What do mean mince????? Im just stating facts
Anyway I see by your remarks earlier that you are a Unionist and see by your address you dont even live within the Union you dearly wish to keep
Beeeeg Hugheeeeeeeeeeeeeee
Does that make my point any less valid BEEG SHUG? I just sent the paperwork in today to ensure my name stays on the electoral role. It matters not the "facts" (sic) you stated, are you saying that Scotland is not part of the UK?
Big hughie
13-Feb-08, 18:18
Your point about V111 being "mince " is nausius to say the least Why?? because it ruined a lot of hard working people in this neck of the woods Not just the fish curers but the people that worked for them coopers gutters fishermen etc Do you know that charitable organisations were giving handouts to these folk in 1924?? That there was collections for soup kitckens in Wick in 1927 Why because an inept Westminster government turned their back on people who supplied them with boats and crews in WW1 and took away their markets because it didnt suit their politics But hey it was for the greater good of the UK wasnt it??
Beeg Hugheeeeee
ps Nice to see you on the electral roll and hope you are supporting HM government in all its powers!!
So you agree that Scotland is part of the UK.........and many brave men who suffered from what you detail above went and fought for that very country.
percy toboggan
13-Feb-08, 18:46
Mince ??! :lol: made me chuckle.
Oh...and agency truck drivers are oftne paid more than those in permanent jobs in my experience...it used to be bobbins, but now it's often decent money £9.00 on days up to thirteen on neets. Not much by some standards but for sittin' on yer jacksee listening to radio 4 it's cushty enough.;)
Big hughie
13-Feb-08, 18:59
So you agree that Scotland is part of the UK.........and many brave men who suffered from what you detail above went and fought for that very country.
And where did i not say that Scotland is not part of the UK ?????? Please tell me All I did was state history and please tell me where i have erred
Yes many brave men did fight for that country ...and did not get a heck of a lot of thanks for doing it .....and tell me where Im wrong there
Just you keep supporting the UK in all its functions treasury included
Beeg Hugheeeeee
I must be misreading the "Invalid Union" title at the top of your post Shug. The mince I was referring to is that how ever you want to dress up history, the simple fact of the matter is that this is a UNITED KINGDOM. If you travel abroad you have British Passport, you pay your taxes to the UK Government, you have a UK drivers license - whichever way you look at it not only is the Union valid, but it has worked effectively.
Fortunatly for me I dont support the treasury, one of the perks of being a tax exile, whilst I still have theright to vote.
Big hughie
13-Feb-08, 19:47
Did you see the four question marks behind the title ? it denotes that there is doubt about the statement you know it is there to be questioned
As for dressing up history .....Im an amateur compared with the write outs that have gone on with Scots history over the years
Beeg Hugheeeeeeee
Oh and being serious if you want to read a bit about how v111 hit the people of Caithness try either of Ian Sutherlands books on the fishing industry in Wick
I saw a piece on Sky News today that the residents of Berwick upon Tweed would like to become part of Scotland once more - or maybe more precisely they see the benefits afforded to those resident in Scotland and think they are far superior to what they get. Is this the modern way for us to take England?
http://news.sky.com/skynews/article/0,,30100-1305012,00.html?f=rss
http://www.dcthomson.co.uk/MAGS/POST/news1.htm
i come from geordie land and a lot of us feel far more a kin to scotland than the south of england. the scots are our cousins over the border. i wish the whole far north of england was part of scotland. we are so far from the the south and london that we are forgotten. edinburgh is far nearer. there are so many southern accents in northumberland, durham, and the far north of scotland, that it is becoming like essex on sea. rock on bonny scotland.
i come from geordie land and a lot of us feel far more a kin to scotland than the south of england. the scots are our cousins over the border. i wish the whole far north of england was part of scotland. we are so far from the the south and london that we are forgotten. edinburgh is far nearer. there are so many southern accents in northumberland, durham, and the far north of scotland, that it is becoming like essex on sea. rock on bonny scotland.
Yeah, I went to college in that part of the World - a long time ago.......in fact I remeber travelling in a bus full of Geordies to the England-Scotland match at Wembley (in 1981.......and Ted Croker had banned Scotland fans)..........the Geordies seemed more inent on altercations with their Cockey cousins (sic).
Did you see the four question marks behind the title ? it denotes that there is doubt about the statement you know it is there to be questioned
As for dressing up history .....Im an amateur compared with the write outs that have gone on with Scots history over the years
Beeg Hugheeeeeeee
Oh and being serious if you want to read a bit about how v111 hit the people of Caithness try either of Ian Sutherlands books on the fishing industry in Wick
There is no doubt about the Union, none.
As for Ian's books I am aware of them. In fact my father was given a signed copy of one for the assistance he provided Ian as part of his research;)
I am from just over the border in geordieland, and a lot of us feel more a kin to scotland, as they are our cousins from over the border. london and the south is so far from us that we are forgotten by london based decision makers. edinburgh is far nearer to us. anyway durham, northumberland, and northern scotland are becoming like essex on sea there are so many southern accents.the invasion has begun. rock on bonny scotland.
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