Police Powers

[justine]

Read in the news this morning that the police will be given new powers to remove alcahol from anyone under the age of 18 seen drinking in a public place.Now dont get me wrong i agree with this, but i did not think that they would have waited so long for it. I mean does it not make sence that this would have been available for years to help combat the problem of underage drinking.
Why has it taken so long, i would have thought that the police would have had the sence to remove alcahol from anyone under the legal age for drinking regardless...When i was younger the police had alot more powers and had a lot more respect from people than they do today....What the hell happened?????????????????????????????????????????? ????:eek:

[lassieinfife]

probably because of the do gooders in society

[bluelady]

About time, but it should extend to all peeps in the street with Alcohol, unless it is for a special official event such as New year Street parties

[golach]

probably because of the do gooders in society
Totally agree with you, but have Fife Constabulary, not been doing this for some time now, seizing all alcohol from teenagers. Or was that just over the festive season?

[Kenn]

We have had these laws for some time although I cannot remember if it was the local council that passed it as a bye law or it it was passed by Westminster.

Tha daft thing is that The Gin Laws are still on the statute book and they give the police the right to confiscate any alcohol that is open on the streets, however again I do not know if they apply in Scotland although I would think so as they were passed in the 1860s in an effort to curb the problems of street drinkers in the centre of large urban areas, especially London.

It seems strange that the makers of the law and the enforcers of it are often unaware of the powers they already have.

[justine]

We have had these laws for some time although I cannot remember if it was the local council that passed it as a bye law or it it was passed by Westminster.

Tha daft thing is that The Gin Laws are still on the statute book and they give the police the right to confiscate any alcohol that is open on the streets, however again I do not know if they apply in Scotland although I would think so as they were passed in the 1860s in an effort to curb the problems of street drinkers in the centre of large urban areas, especially London.

It seems strange that the makers of the law and the enforcers of it are often unaware of the powers they already have.

It does seem strange that if this law was already passed, then why are they trying to pass it again now.I assume that the laws were rewritten sometime in the early 1900s...

I just think that the need for a law which gives the police powers to remove a potentially harmfull substance away from a teenager is madness.The should have that right without the red tape,if not only for the teens health but public safety aswell...

I am not a drinker and neither is my hubby so i am hoping that my kids dont start drinking.I have two teens who at glad to sit at home doing cross stitch, I believe that with them not having any parents who drink might help them to stay away from the stuff. The thought of them hanging around the streets drinking terrifies me....

[Sapphire2803]

So, what have they been doing until now? Wagging their finger at them and saying 'Oh, you shouldn't be drinking that' and then walking away?
I can't believe they weren't taking it away before!

[NickInTheNorth]

Having not read the details - anyone got any links? it is difficult to comment. However it is possible that the "new powers" are simply being introduced to tidy up the law, and make it less easy to challenge any constable that might well already exercise this power under various other provisions. Don't forget that any action carried out by a police officer is subject to the law. If the police can face legal challenges for something like this then it makes sense to pass legislation which confers a specific power.

[Tighsonas4]

they have had confiscation going in orkney since some time maybe they have there own laws??? photo of a haul in their local paper a while back.
they should put it into old folks homes for a night cap:roll: :roll:

[*Martin*]

I must admit that when I was underage I do remember being told by the police to pour my booze away down a drain twice! 1st time wasn't too bad but the second was most of a case of Miller!!!!

[philupmaboug]

Police need the resources to be able to impliment all the laws and with just 4 officers on a shift if no one is sick or on holiday then that may prove a little difficult. Perhaps anyone who is making a critisism should ask themselves where thier little darlings are on any given night.

[saffy100]

So, what have they been doing until now? Wagging their finger at them and saying 'Oh, you shouldn't be drinking that' and then walking away?
I can't believe they weren't taking it away before!

They do remove alcohol from underage drinkers, i'm sure i saw it in the groat after the Hogmany Party.

[Flair]

As long as so many human rights exist, no authority figure will ever hold any real power.

Political correction has been allowed to make it's way through the ranks to the controls. As long as nothing is done about that, problems with power will remain unsolved.

[NickInTheNorth]

As long as so many human rights exist, no authority figure will ever hold any real power.

Political correction has been allowed to make it's way through the ranks to the controls. As long as nothing is done about that, problems with power will remain unsolved.

And long may that remain the case. I for one would not like to see anyone with "real power". Just powers allowed by law.

[dook]

The Police have had the power to remove and destroy alcohol from persons under the age of 18 for as long as I've known. They can also remove alcohol from persons over the age of 18 suspected to have supplied or to supply a person under the age of 18. The law that has been passed is just additional.

[Sapphire2803]

Police need the resources to be able to impliment all the laws and with just 4 officers on a shift if no one is sick or on holiday then that may prove a little difficult. Perhaps anyone who is making a critisism should ask themselves where thier little darlings are on any given night.


I and I'm sure, others would never criticise any service which is under-staffed, under-funded and still expected to perform miracles. I think we're very lucky in Caithness.

However, if any police officer would be quite happy to walk past a youth (we'll say, on their own and not looking in any way dangerous) who was drinking in the street and not say anything or take away the alcohol, then there is a problem. If they do it because they're not bothered, then maybe a career change would be in order, if they do it because they're not allowed, then the laws need changing.

It's such a shame that it's come to this and you're right, where ARE the parents?

Mine haven't got to the age where things like this would be a problem yet, but when they do, first hint that they could be doing anything like this, they'll be found and taken home. I would have no problem with embarassing them in front of their friends if their behaviour is unacceptable. I would have no problem with grounding them indefinitely and I wouldn't hesitate to call the police if I considered it necessary. Yes they're my children, but part of my job is to raise them to be responsible adults and until they are, it's my job to keep them under control.

Right, that's my little rant over...

I'll go away now :lol:

[j4bberw0ck]

>>>This page<<< (http://forum.caithness.org/go.php?url=http://www.crimereduction.homeoffice.gov.uk/alcoholorders/alcoholorders015.htm) outlines the powers the police have to confiscate alcohol. I listened to Radio 4 this morning when they briefly discussed it and the significant change seems to be that police "can now remove alcohol in sealed containers from under 18's, regardless" (my paraphrase). In other words, they don't need to "reasonably believe" that the alcohol is likely to be drunk any more.

So don't let your 16 year old help carry the shopping to the car! Another crime, another clear-up.....:lol:

[Highland Laddie]

I grew up in a small village of about 150 people, we had a local village bobby, if he caught any of us up to a little devilment, we got a clip on the ear and a boot in the backside, he then marched you home, where we got another clip on the ear, i did me no harm and i think this is where we have gone wrong in our too do gooder society.

[Sapphire2803]

I grew up in a small village of about 150 people, we had a local village bobby, if he caught any of us up to a little devilment, we got a clip on the ear and a boot in the backside, he then marched you home, where we got another clip on the ear, i did me no harm and i think this is where we have gone wrong in our too do gooder society.

Yup, in my case the local bobby was friends with my Mum, so he knew pretty much exactly what I was or wasn't allowed to do. Any time he popped round for a visit in the evening, I'd be panicking, trying to think whether I'd done anything wrong :lol:

[Blondie]

Perhaps anyone who is making a critisism should ask themselves where thier little darlings are on any given night.

Have to say I agree with you there.

[pat]

In Western Isles the police can and do remove alcohol from underagers - they used to make them pour it down a drain or on grass. Now I believe they take it to police station.
The youngsters now consume alcohol away from town centre - go to the castle grounds or along shore by cemetery, until they consider they have enough 'steam up' then head into town to start fighting, disruption and vandalism.
Where are the parents and how do these youngsters continually acquire alcohol in the quantities I see (empties after an evenings drinking).
I live near footpath by cemetery/beach - not an area I now frequent at night.
Did approach youngsters one night asking them to take the empties home - next night the benches and tables at the bottom of cemetery were set on fire and destroyed, if you call police the youngsters can see cars arrive and scatter into graveyards or beaches returning as soon as police go.
I hold parents responsible - for not knowing where their offspring are and usually for supplying enough money to acquire the alcohol, or allowing the youngsters to consume alcohol whilst underage and knowingly allowing the youngster to be out and about under the influence of alcohol.
Strange nobody ever admits to supplying these underagers with alcohol and very few are ever prosecuted for supply.
If parents were made to pay full costs for youngsters being under the influence how many of the same youngster would continually be under the influence underage out of parental control, parents would I feel keep more of an eye on them if it was going to severely hit their pockets.

[justine]

Having not read the details - anyone got any links? it is difficult to comment. However it is possible that the "new powers" are simply being introduced to tidy up the law, and make it less easy to challenge any constable that might well already exercise this power under various other provisions. Don't forget that any action carried out by a police officer is subject to the law. If the police can face legal challenges for something like this then it makes sense to pass legislation which confers a specific power.

Sorry i could not post this link before, the internet went down

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/7229949.stm

[rob murray]

In Western Isles the police can and do remove alcohol from underagers - they used to make them pour it down a drain or on grass. Now I believe they take it to police station.
The youngsters now consume alcohol away from town centre - go to the castle grounds or along shore by cemetery, until they consider they have enough 'steam up' then head into town to start fighting, disruption and vandalism.
Where are the parents and how do these youngsters continually acquire alcohol in the quantities I see (empties after an evenings drinking).
I live near footpath by cemetery/beach - not an area I now frequent at night.
Did approach youngsters one night asking them to take the empties home - next night the benches and tables at the bottom of cemetery were set on fire and destroyed, if you call police the youngsters can see cars arrive and scatter into graveyards or beaches returning as soon as police go.
I hold parents responsible - for not knowing where their offspring are and usually for supplying enough money to acquire the alcohol, or allowing the youngsters to consume alcohol whilst underage and knowingly allowing the youngster to be out and about under the influence of alcohol.
Strange nobody ever admits to supplying these underagers with alcohol and very few are ever prosecuted for supply.
If parents were made to pay full costs for youngsters being under the influence how many of the same youngster would continually be under the influence underage out of parental control, parents would I feel keep more of an eye on them if it was going to severely hit their pockets.

Good stuff, thing is alchohol is so cheap, in relative terms, also the whole alcopops marketing angle is to "de alcoholise" alchol...obviously targeted at youngsters. Plus, lets face it, certainly in this part of the world alcohol is socially acceptable. I suppose the issue is in dealing with pissed kids and what they get up to under the influence ie your example. Almost everyone I grew up with were underagers but we couldnt cause havoc in the streets otherwise you were done by the law..no question,( you could cause mayhem in a dance hall but thats another story !! ) Maybe people should see the hypocricy here, alcohol is socially acceptable, alcohol is a big revenue stream for government, it is also a killer. On a recent trip to Seattle and Canada I noticed that the drinking age is 21 but id can be requested up to the age of 30, so no chance of publicans etc making a marginal error there. Publicans and off licenses should adopt this ( or a law brought in to do so ) ( supermarkets as well ) should face mandatory large fines for selling alcohol to underagers, the police should be able to charge underagers and those caught buying alcohol fro underagers for possession of alcohol, again mandatory fines in place. People will still find ways to get drink but action can be taken to minimise the concequences fo drink related anti social behaviour. I now stand accused of hyprocisy as a former underager preaching hard tactics but times have moved on hereand people and property are being attacked all over the UK by drunken kids..

[dook]

The article refers to English and Welsh forces which have a different legal system The whole thing revolves around the term "reasonable suspicion". A kid drinking beer seems to fit into the "reasonable suspicion" niche, which already empowers the southern forces to remove the alcohol. Sounds like a political move and doesn't really accomplish much.