John Sutherland Latheron/Berriedale

[marionq]

Periodically I search for evidence of this branch of my family but always get stumped because so few mother's names were included in birth records in the early days. My great, great grandmother Margaret Sutherland gave her birth place as Berriedale and her parents as John Sutherland and Margaret Bruce. Her sister Marion/Merran who lived with her gave the same information on any records I have of her.

When I look on the LDS records (the only one I can find to give anything useful so far) I find one John Sutherland of Latheron who seems to fit the bill but no wife or mother's name given. His children are listed as:

Marion Sutherland 12 Dec 1787
Alexander Sutherland 21 Oct 1789
Ellizabeth Sutherland 21 Aug 1791
Robert Sutherland 02 Mar 1793
Margaret Sutherland 02 Jan 1794
George Sutherland 10 Jan 1798
Catherine Sutherland 26 Jan 1799

My gt, gt grandmother and her sister according to census returns and death certs would fit the dates given here and in addition Margaret gave her children the names listed above. I feel quite strongly this is the right family but without some record of the marriage of John Sutherland and Margaret Bruce or some evidence she was the mother of these children I remain stumped.

Any ideas? Anyone descended from this branch of the Sutherlands?

Regards Marion

[marionq]

I have found a marriage for John Sutherland and Marjory (Margaret?) Bruce in Latheron on 13 Jan 1766. How reliable are these dates on LDS index? If it was 1786 then this would be a perfect fit.

Anyone got access to the originals of that film?

Thanks for your time.

Regards Marion

[Rachel22]

I had a quick look at the scotlandspeople free search and the date was 13 Jan 1766 for a John Sutherland and Mar* Bruce. I couldn't find any around your later date.
Some of the results on the LDS index are submitted by members and they can be unreliable. However if the message says 'extracted marriage record for locality listed in the record' it should be correct. Then you can cross check it with scotlandspeople.
Good luck with your searching.
Rachel

[Rosemary Skea]

I have found a marriage for John Sutherland and Marjory (Margaret?) Bruce in Latheron on 13 Jan 1766. How reliable are these dates on LDS index? If it was 1786 then this would be a perfect fit.

Anyone got access to the originals of that film?

Thanks for your time.

Regards Marion

I have the films for Latheron and have checked your birth data. The John Sutherland named as the father of all the children has a different abode at each entry viz:
Marion - Achnacraig
Alexander - Inver ( this John also baptised a child named Christian on the same day as Marion's baptism)
Robert - Rhindow
Margaret - Osclay
George - Swinzie
Catherine - Upper Croft at Lathernwheel
I didn't find Elizabeth as the enteries were all mixed up around that date and I was getting tangled up in film!.

Unfortunately the Latheron OPR give no wife/mother data nor do they name witnesses which can be a very helful pointer to family connections.
The marriages in Latheron up to 1820 were not on the roll of film marked as Latheron so I don't know where it might be.

Rosemary

[marionq]

Would you say then Rosemary that it was not the same John Sutherland who fathered all these children despite Latheron being given as the place of birth. I don't know these places named by you - are they farms or villages or what?

I suppose I was wondering if the transcriber who entered the marriage as 1766 was reading from poor quality writing. I've certainly been in that situation myself when transcribing.

I feel this particular brick wall is just out there dangling in front of me ready to be breached. Deceiving myself again!

Thanks for your help

Marion

[marionq]

Well, I've got the marriage certificate and it is as clear as a bell - 1766 and between John Sutherland Ausdale and Marjory Bruce Acharascall. If Marjory was very young when she married and still having children 20/25 years later it could just about be them but really pushing it.

Where are these places please?

Marion

[Rosemary Skea]

Ausdale is near Badbea which is just south of Berridale. Achnacraig was another name for Badbea( that is from the 1861 census returns). Acharascall doesn't seem to around any longer but I think it was around the Braemore area as I found that from the MI from Braemore. Inver was at Dunbeath but there was another one at Lybster. Latheronwheel is just south of Latheron Village, and I can't find Rhindow. Osclay is inland from Lybster and Swinzie would be the present day Swiney which is between Lybster and Latheron.

What census info have you on Margaret and Marion? I would think that it is highly unlikely that a couple were married for twenty years before producing children, and I don't think that in the late 1700's that families would have frequent moves but we don't really know.

Have you got a copy of the marriage extract for John and Margaret from GROS as opposed to a transcript as 6 and 8 can often be confused by the transcriber and the original scribe of the OPR. Rosemary

[Rosemary Skea]

I found the film with the marriages and the date of 1766 is correct. I searched for a few years from that date for any children born to a John Sutherland at Ausdale and found none ! It is all quite intriguing. But there will be an answer !

I am working on checking the 1861 Latheron census at this moment and if there is anything you would like checked out from that let me know.

The names Achnacraig, Osclay etc are all names of habitations whether they be a cluster of houses as in a village or a single house or a farm/croft. Latheron is the parish name but it is also a village name. On GROS and the LDS indexes, Latheron would indicate the parish as opposed to the village.

Rosemary

[marionq]

Rosemary, I now have an actual copy of the entry and it could not be clearer so I can't argue with that couple being married in 1766. As far as Margaret my gt, gt grandmother I have her marriage to Alexander Fleming in Badnabay, Sutherland in 1816 and in every census from 1841 she gives her birthplace as Berriedale as does Marion who lived with her. On both of their death certificates their parents are given as John Sutherland, farmer and Margaret Bruce, Berriedale.

Her parents would have to have been quite old when the two of them were born if they were the John and Marjory who married in 1766 but the area is probably about right, don't you think?

Marion

[Rosemary Skea]

Marion, email me privately with your email address and I will send you data I have on Sutherland births at Ausdale from 1780 -1810. I have run through the film for that period this morning.

Rosemary