Public money....

[Torvaig]

Isn't it a crying shame that so much public money is spent on unecessary fripperies such as lighting up the Thurso bridge with blue lights etc., etc? I know that it all helps to make our surroundings look good but when you see how many fund raising events go on to help members of our community live their day to day lives I do think we waste so much of our public resources.

Surely it is a basic right of everyone to have their lives enhanced by being able to take part in everyday life that some of us take for granted. Just because someone is in a minority group doesn't mean they don't have the same rights as the "average" person; whatever "average" means.

The "average" person takes life's little luxuries for granted i.e. a warm place of work, decent toilet facilities, freedom to enjoy facilities such as going to school for an education which in turn boosts their confidence to take part in today's world.

Surely every single person has a right to share in our modern world.

An alien visiting our world would stop and wonder at our priorities........

[Riffman]

Isn't it a crying shame that so much public money is spent on unecessary fripperies such as lighting up the Thurso bridge with blue lights etc., etc? I know that it all helps to make our surroundings look good but when you see how many fund raising events go on to help members of our community live their day to day lives I do think we waste so much of our public resources.


Aye well instead of moaning about it, become a counciller and do something about it.

I see nothing wrong with lighting up a bridge, after the inital outlay it will only cost a few hundred to run each year.

You admit yourself that it helps to make the surroundings look good, the council has to give the impression that Thurso is a nice place to live thus you move there and they get your money.

How far do the council's responsibilities go? A full time carer will cost upwards of £20k a year, that is a lot of lights. It is not the council you should be moaning at, it is the government. The amount they waste on needless things is shocking.

Don't get me started on the Olympics....

[Boozeburglar]

I think you have a good point Torvaig.

Witness the recent extravagence by the council in Inverness, putting upwards of a quarter million up in smoke while there are people sleeping on the street and community facilities running out of cash.

Disgraceful.

Get involved instead of moaning?

Could that not be said of all things? Is there no place for moaning?

I have an idea, moan and get involved.

[Angela]

Aye well instead of moaning about it, become a counciller and do something about it.



I don't see Torvaig's post as a moan, just an opinion! Not everyone is able -for a number of reasons - to "become a councillor" even if they wanted to.

Here in Edinburgh we enjoy the attractive sight of beautifully floodlit buildings - a pleasure both to us residents and to the visitors who bring money into our city. I do think there's a strong argument for some money being spent on an attractive environment that lifts the spirits, especially at a bleak time of year.

I am in two minds about this though -there's certainly a big part of me that would rather see the money being used to provide decent housing and other basic amenities for folk who need them...and right now, just don't have them.

There's just the one pot of cash -and it can only be spent once...so do we have our priorities right? :confused

[Torvaig]

I'm not a councillor nor do I intend being one; I am not moaning; I am bringing people's attention to something I have a view on; I am involved and doing something about it; I would like to hear other people's views and thank you for yours. :)

[cuddlepop]

Torvaig if I started commenting on what the council see as an necessary expenditure and not every day necessaties I'd get banned.:mad:

[Torvaig]

I too enjoy seeing a place look attractive that is why I look after my own place, that is why I take my rubbish home with me, that is why I will scatter wild flower seeds in the spring, that is why many people look after their own wee bit and don't abuse the public amenities such as the parks, streets etc. I also like seeing the flower beds, the flower baskets etc., but I still think we need to get our priorities right.......:)

[NickInTheNorth]

I certainly agree that the council does waste money on some things, though as has been said I don't really find the lights on the bridge a major issue.

But when I hear they are about to spend an additional £1 million on Keeping highland communities cleaner I have to wonder.

I personally have never really seen anywhere in the highlands and immediately thought that is dirty or untidy or anything like it.

Indeed one place I stayed we had men round strimming the grass every week throughout the summer despite the fact that the whole area was grazed by sheep and never required cutting at all.

When I see that out of that money there will be:

Increased levels of education and enforcement in littering and dog fouling by employing three enforcement officers £90,000

17 street cleansing staff (£500,000) (nearly £30000 per post!)

34 additional seasonal grounds maintenance operatives (£410,000)

Then I really wonder what planet our elected representatives live on. It sure isn't the same one as me.

At the same time I hear more rumours of cuts in education and social care provision - and what about the disgusting state of the roads...

[Torvaig]

To be honest I was just using the lights on the bridge as an example.....I don't think I could list all the unnecessary expenditure on here.....:)

[grandma]

When I see that out of that money there will be:

Increased levels of education and enforcement in littering and dog fouling by employing three enforcement officers £90,000

17 street cleansing staff (£500,000) (nearly £30000 per post!)

34 additional seasonal grounds maintenance operatives (£410,000)

Good grief!! Where can I get an application form?!!

[Sapphire2803]

I lived in Portsmouth during the Spinnaker tower fiasco, you really should google that one if you've not heard, the council signed the sort of contract that watchdog would be warning the country about. For example, part of the agreement was that (basically) if the company building it messed up, they weren't responsible. WHAT??? Anyway, Several million pounds of tax payers money, a couple of building firms and several years later (It was a millennium tower... opened in 2004/5!) We had ourselves a spinnaker tower, the day they opened it the outside lift broke and hasn't worked since. Then they added insult to injury by offering Portsmouth residents a discount to go up the tower. Hmmph! We'd already paid for the flippin thing!!
Oh... and apparently there are problems with the concrete used to build it. So it'll crumble in places or some such thing, I don't know.

While all this kerfuffle was going on, the council very quietly went off and put blue lights on the old city walls and built "The sails of the south" with more blue lights on the motorway bridge leading into the city.
It looks fantastic! It also cost a fraction of the price of the flippin tower.

They're closing swimming pools (can't afford them) but they're getting in on the action to build an olympic sized pool for 2012, even afterwards, Joe Public will only have limited access to it because it will mainly be used for swimming teams etc.

Grrr and Hmmph!!

Caithness, on the other hand seems to have it's priorities straight and a few pretty lights here and there just give the night time version of what well groomed flower beds give us during the day. A sense that a town is well loved and looked after and they just look nice. Let's face it, in winter, a few lights can make all the difference.

[Boozeburglar]

I will scatter wild flower seeds in the spring

I hope you scatter only seeds you have collected locally...

:)

[Angela]

Here in Edinburgh we're so reliant on charities and volunteers to try to deal with problems such as homelessness. If it wasn't for Shelter, The Bethany and the Salvation Army among others, the situation would be so much worse.

I do think it's wrong that we rely so much on charities and volunteers to provide for the basic needs of those that ours society seems to forget about.

There's a lot of waste due to poor management even in the areas where our council is providing help and care. After a serious illness in 2006, I had a carer for several months to come and cook lunch and generally help out -paid for by the council. Well -to be more exact I had a series of carers from an agency -often total strangers appearing out of the blue -and frequently nobody turned up at all. When they did, some couldn't actually cook anything!

I didn't think the council were getting good value from the agency so when I was interviewed by two people from the Care Commission who were inspecting the agency, I was pleased to have the opportunity to voice my concerns, which seemed to be shared by many other 'clients' and their families.

However, when I looked at the inspector's report, they seemed far more concerned that people hadn't received a copy of the agency's handbook, than the fact they weren't getting appropriate care....:confused

When I was well enough to feel I no longer needed the care, it took a long time to get it stopped -although I was trying to save the council money that could be better spent on someone else, the agency didn't want to let me go - I was an "easy" visit and the carer could be in and out in 10 minutes for what was meant to be an hour's work...[evil]

[Boozeburglar]

I know no one personally who has reacted well to the blue lights in Sir. John's Square, nor those under the bridge. Naff, tacky and bizarre have been the responses generally.

[MadPict]

I'm sure your local truckers will love the blue lights....

[Torvaig]

I hope you scatter only seeds you have collected locally...

:)

Of course; Woolworths, the garden shop......;)

[badger]

Something seems to happen to perfectly normal (apparently!) human beings when they get elected to government, whether local or national. I would love to hear from someone who has their hands in the public purse and is involved in some of this appalling waste, but I suppose that's unlikely. The higher up they go, the more money they throw around. Blue lights in Thurso (pretty maybe but a waste of money and energy), fireworks in Inverness, Holyrood, Milennium Dome and Olympics. Do they just stop seeing the '0s' after a while?

Who told Gordon Brown he could take £2,000 of my money to rescue Northern Rock, which would never have been in trouble if there were proper regulations in place. And whose fault is it there aren't any? Just think what that £56 billion could have done for hospitals, social workers, schools etc. etc. I can't even imagine a figure that large. Is it any wonder Peter Hain didn't notice all those thousands suddenly appearing in his bank account - probably not enough 0s in them.

They waste millions (billions?) on building projects and computer systems because they have no clue how to go about them - and they don't care. It's not their money, or at least not enough of it. If a charity wants a grant it has to complete endless paperwork and raise a certain percentage of the money in advance before it's even considered. Now maybe if everyone in government had to do the same .....

[Angela]

Not long ago, I was stopped in my local library by a woman conducting a survey on - guess what? - Council Services, what folk thought of them, and what they thought of the area in general.
Of course, the company she was working for were doing the survey on behalf of the council -so guess who was paying for the cost of the survey? Oh yes indeedy, it's the poor old council tax payer again! :eek:
Well -it gave me the chance to point out the almost complete lack of recycling facilities in the area. Oh yes, she said, " a lot of people have been saying that...."
Then back onto her main theme - "there's a nice range of shops...don't you think? Shall I tick that?" Sigh. Yes, there is a good range of shops, but then they're not provided by the council, are they? :confused

[badger]

Angela - that survey story is actually very funny. If only it wasn't true :roll:

[cuddlepop]

Not long ago, I was stopped in my local library by a woman conducting a survey on - guess what? - Council Services, what folk thought of them, and what they thought of the area in general.
Of course, the company she was working for were doing the survey on behalf of the council -so guess who was paying for the cost of the survey? Oh yes indeedy, it's the poor old council tax payer again! :eek:
Well -it gave me the chance to point out the almost complete lack of recycling facilities in the area. Oh yes, she said, " a lot of people have been saying that...."
Then back onto her main theme - "there's a nice range of shops...don't you think? Shall I tick that?" Sigh. Yes, there is a good range of shops, but then they're not provided by the council, are they? :confused
It happens up here all the time too.
We find the questions are actually loaded in favour of the council,so how can this possibly be independent

[scotsboy]

Is the lighting of certain buildings etc not provided gratis (although someone will be paying somewhere) by the electricity supplier? I remember the library and Towns clock in Thurso being illuminated under some scheme or other........could be wrong.

[Highland Laddie]

I know no one personally who has reacted well to the blue lights in Sir. John's Square, nor those under the bridge. Naff, tacky and bizarre have been the responses generally.

When passing the bridge etc on the way home from work, it's really just a blur, as you can't focus on it fast enough before you hit the next pothole in the road. :lol:

[Andrew C]

Here in Edinburgh we're so reliant on charities and volunteers to try to deal with problems such as homelessness. If it wasn't for Shelter, The Bethany and the Salvation Army among others, the situation would be so much worse.

I do think it's wrong that we rely so much on charities and volunteers to provide for the basic needs of those that ours society seems to forget about.


The Salvation Army in Inverness recently had to close its homeless hostel due to the Highland Council cutting funding, or more accurately, taking funding away completely. The Salvation Army was running a good service there.

You see, councils like the Highland Council don't often like to admit to having social problems on their patch. They begin to use excuses like 'we're going to tackle the problem differently' so that they don't have to say that they are supporting x amount of homeless hostels in their main city.

The street level affect of this means 20 - 25 or so (I don't know how many beds it had) less beds for people who find themselves homeless in the Highlands for whatever reason.

Now, instead of having a centre like the Army's Huntly House, I know at least of one man, who frequents Wick now and again, is simply left wandering the streets. He gets drunk, gets in trouble, gets robbed, beaten and spends his time between jail cells, short access bunkhouses and the streets. Quite simply put, he could be experiencing long term rehabilitation on a Salvation Army homelessness programme which would help him sort his life, deal with his alcohol addiction, and integrate him back into the community.

But no, lets have a big firework display and put lights on the bridges. Forgive the rant, but its not the Salvation Army I'm worried about, we've plenty to do, its the man on the street that gets the bum deal out of this. We can't just close our eyes and pretend our problems will disappear by tarting the place up.

[Margaret M.]

Quite simply put, he could be experiencing long term rehabilitation on a Salvation Army homelessness programme which would help him sort his life, deal with his alcohol addiction, and integrate him back into the community.

But no, lets have a big firework display and put lights on the bridges.

Why does common sense seem to be in such short supply when it comes to spending taxpayer's money? I would love to hear their reasoning behind cutting some of these necessary services while an over-in-a-flash fireworks display is so heavily funded.

[cuddlepop]

Why does common sense seem to be in such short supply when it comes to spending taxpayer's money? I would love to hear their reasoning behind cutting some of these necessary services while an over-in-a-flash fireworks display is so heavily funded.

there cutting funding to many charity's but still wasting money on frills&lace.:mad:

[scotsboy]

I know no one personally who has reacted well to the blue lights in Sir. John's Square, nor those under the bridge. Naff, tacky and bizarre have been the responses generally.

Well you know someone now - I like them..........I like them a lot!

[scotsboy]

I didn't realise it was the Council's job to fund "charitable organizations", perhaps someone could tell us the Highland Regions Social work budget for 2007 and we can see how it compares to the cost of the fireworks.

[Buttercup]

Well you know someone now - I like them..........I like them a lot!
I'm with you there scotsboy ~ I like them too. Maybe I'm wrong but I thought it was Thurso Town Improvements that bought the lights?:confused

[johno]

The Salvation Army in Inverness recently had to close its homeless hostel due to the Highland Council cutting funding, or more accurately, taking funding away completely. The Salvation Army was running a good service there.

You see, councils like the Highland Council don't often like to admit to having social problems on their patch. They begin to use excuses like 'we're going to tackle the problem differently' so that they don't have to say that they are supporting x amount of homeless hostels in their main city.

The street level affect of this means 20 - 25 or so (I don't know how many beds it had) less beds for people who find themselves homeless in the Highlands for whatever reason.

Now, instead of having a centre like the Army's Huntly House, I know at least of one man, who frequents Wick now and again, is simply left wandering the streets. He gets drunk, gets in trouble, gets robbed, beaten and spends his time between jail cells, short access bunkhouses and the streets. Quite simply put, he could be experiencing long term rehabilitation on a Salvation Army homelessness programme which would help him sort his life, deal with his alcohol addiction, and integrate him back into the community.

But no, lets have a big firework display and put lights on the bridges. Forgive the rant, but its not the Salvation Army I'm worried about, we've plenty to do, its the man on the street that gets the bum deal out of this. We can't just close our eyes and pretend our problems will disappear by tarting the place up.
Andrew, i knew you & i would find a common ground where we could agree on something, just how can highland council actually justify shooting a third of a million quid at the moon. beyond belief, [disgust] [evil]

[Andrew C]

I didn't realise it was the Council's job to fund "charitable organizations", perhaps someone could tell us the Highland Regions Social work budget for 2007 and we can see how it compares to the cost of the fireworks.

In instances where charities provide work that the government should be providing, there are 'benefits' the government pay. For example, the hostel in Inverness would have been staffed by The Salvation Army, the building belonged to the Salvation Army and all the services provided by The Salvation Army.

The people living in the hostel, however, would have been supported by programmes such as 'Supporting People' which is an allowance that homeless people get from the government to help pay their way in a hostel set-up. They would also have received 'housing benefit' to help contribute towards their rent.

A strong principle of Salvation Army work is that people should be given the opportunity to contribute towards their rehabilitation/future by way of handing over some of these benefits in exchange for services offered. This is common practice throught the homeless sector.

What happened, I think, in the Inverness situation, is that the council decided they weren't supporting projects like hostels, preferring rather to look at different ways of tackling the problem. The problem with that is that the other solutions don't work, aren't manageable, and rely wholly on the council instead of partnership with organisations like us.

Hope that clarifies.

Andrew C

[NickInTheNorth]

<Lots of relevant stuff snipped>

But no, lets have a big firework display and put lights on the bridges. Forgive the rant, but its not the Salvation Army I'm worried about, we've plenty to do, its the man on the street that gets the bum deal out of this. We can't just close our eyes and pretend our problems will disappear by tarting the place up.

Andrew, we may disagree on religious things, but I agree with you 100% on this point. It is a fantastic service that the salvation army provide to the homeless of this and many other countries. Why any local authority would pretend that they are going to tackle it differently I do not know.

Leave matters to the best placed to deal with those issues, and if that means councils contributing to charity then so be it.

I guess the savings will be going to help fund the extra £1million for street cleaning!

I find it quite strange that we have had no comment on this thread from our resident councillor; )

[Rheghead]

I wonder which sector would we squeeze first if we had our way?

http://www.highland.gov.uk/NR/rdonlyres/CF427E4D-4EF4-4FD9-BA86-7655E35EB026/0/summaryaccounts0607.pdf

It seems strange to me (but there must be a perfectly good but illogical reason) why the Highland Council should approve windfarm applications in the Highlands to private developers when they should be trying to be carbon neutral themselves. To illustrate my point, the turnover of just 500MW in the Highlands would generate almost half of the Highland Council annual budget.

With all the extra cash and energy from all that public capital investment would mean we could afford to have a few blue lights around the place.