View Full Version : Big Issue sellers in Wick
northener
21-Jan-08, 19:31
We've suddenly developed 3 Big Issue sellers in Wick.
These people have never been seen around the town before being 'homeless'.
Times must be hard for these three unfortunate foreign individuals, reduced to trying to scrape a few pennies together in the Far North.
After a hard day trying to earn a few honest pence to maybe help them pay for a meal, they all congregated in Safeways car park and drove off in a Chrysler Voyager......
Don't give them a penny[evil]
And before anybody gets all righteous on me, I buy the Big Issue from people on the understanding that I am contributing to the welfare of someone who is genuinely struggling to survive - not to line the pockets of professional beggars.
Rigorous moderation of this site prevents me from swearing profusely.
.
Agree wholeheartedly with you. Same thing in Inverness. I usually buy the Big Issue as well, but was really annoyed by a foreigner being quite pushy in trying to get me to buy a copy.
one was at tesco the other week so it is 4 only time i ever saw them was in inverness or aberdeen
These guys were outside the co-op tonight in Thurso
I don't carry money with me and 1 girl said to me "would u like to buy The big issue" and i said no sorry and she said to me oh please please and i just shook my head and walked off,
Then when i came out of the co-op i saw 1 girl and a guy running down to their car, it was a chrysler voyager
there outside woolies in thurso right now, two of them, asked me i said no, when i came out i got asked again... dont trust them, im sure one of them was one that was at my parents door trying to sell pictures
ciderally
22-Jan-08, 16:09
dont sound to good ...how much is the paper now? can they charge what they want?...
no.I think it is still £1 per issue..May be wrong...
one of the sellers was in woolies and looking very suspicious but i noticed a member of staff was watching her alot
crashbandicoot1979
22-Jan-08, 17:19
I read an article about this...how in the big cities a lot of eastern europeans are selling the big issue but are not homeless at all. Its how they make a living, rather than simply a means to survive, which is the whole point of the big issue. Its putting people off buying the big issue whcih means genuine sellers are suffering. There's no way I'd buy one from them. Like Northerner, I don't grudge buying it or contributing to someones welfare if they genuinely need help but this is just a big scam.
cuddlepop
22-Jan-08, 17:56
Bi issue was £1 40 the last time i bought it.
May just maybe these sellers were/are living in their car.:confused
dont sound to good ...how much is the paper now? can they charge what they want?...
i da ken fit 'e crack is now but they ('e beiggers) hed til pay 50 pence for a single beeg issue, so if ye pay a kwid then they get a 50 pence oot o' it.
if thur chargin £1.40 at means they are getin 90 pence oot o it which means they ARE makin up e price thumsels - (cheeky beggers)
usually if am in inverness an see a cheil sellin 'e BI, i choost gie'um a kwid an tell'um til keep 'e magazine, but 'ats on 'e understandin that they is really broke.
i probly widna gie til a seller now efter readin iss - £1.40??? :roll:
who they tryin til kid??? [evil]
£1.40 is the correct price with the vendors paying 60p per copy. You can always ask to see their badge and you can get in touch with Big Issue via this site:
http://www.bigissue.com/selling.html (http://forum.caithness.org/go.php?url=http://www.bigissue.com/selling.html)
£1.40 is the correct price with the vendors paying 60p per copy. You can always ask to see their badge and you can get in touch with Big Issue via this site:
http://www.bigissue.com/selling.html
aye, yer probly rite torvaig, it wis a couple o' years ago i wis speakin til e seller, i spose everythin hes til go up eventually.
still no keen on gien til iss new guys on e scene tho, for reasons personal til masel....
tho, dependin on ma mood an how much change wis in ma purse i mite slip them a kwid withoot takin e magazine off them, then they get til keep e kwid til themsels.
skinnydog
22-Jan-08, 19:47
Dodgy no infact very dodgy.
That would put you off from helping the poor souls that are homeless.
Check out their trainers. I have seen a few in the cities with the £100 + Nike trainers on which leads you to think that they are not on the bread line.
Am I correct in thinking that the local council has to ensure that you have a roof over your head if you end up on skid row?
this morning...one outside Co-op, one outside Woolies... and one outside Tesco... I said NO thanks..
I wonder where do they buy them from? Inverness?...how do they get there? and back?
Boozeburglar
22-Jan-08, 20:10
These people have never been seen around the town before being 'homeless'.
Times must be hard for these three unfortunate foreign individuals, reduced to trying to scrape a few pennies together in the Far North.
There is no rule saying they have to sell in the area where they live. After all, most of the 'pitches' in the bigger towns and cities are taken.
'Foreign individuals'?
Being here in Scotland, where our culture is one of inclusivity and tolerance, I cannot see what relevance it has that they are of non-Scottish origin It undermines the point you are trying to make to mention that.
Please take your xenophobia back home to your country.
After a hard day trying to earn a few honest pence to maybe help them pay for a meal, they all congregated in Safeways car park and drove off in a Chrysler Voyager......
Don't give them a penny
If you have concerns over whether some people are getting rich selling the Big Issue, I think you need more than the fact they might collectively have access to a vehicle to convince me.
And before anybody gets all righteous on me, I buy the Big Issue from people on the understanding that I am contributing to the welfare of someone who is genuinely struggling to survive - not to line the pockets of professional beggars.
People who are deemed homeless according to the Big Issue's own guidelines do not need to be destitute. Perhaps they have come to the UK and been unable to sustain themselves in other ways. The idea of the Big Issue is to provide the vendor an income that allows them to do more than to 'survive'. The intention is to provide vendors with a stable income to allow them to develop skills through training and to find permanent employment.
£1.50 is the price, not much more than my Sunday paper, actually less than the Observer!
It is a good read, with easy Sudoko...
Try speaking to the vendors, I spend at least ten minutes every week chatting to them, and most of them are real stars. You might just get to know why they are selling the Big Issue.
There is no rule saying they have to sell in the area where they live. After all, most of the 'pitches' in the bigger towns and cities are taken.
'Foreign individuals'?
Being here in Scotland, where our culture is one of inclusivity and tolerance, I cannot see what relevance it has that they are of non-Scottish origin It undermines the point you are trying to make to mention that.
Please take your xenophobia back home to your country.
If you have concerns over whether some people are getting rich selling the Big Issue, I think you need more than the fact they might collectively have access to a vehicle to convince me.
People who are deemed homeless according to the Big Issue's own guidelines do not need to be destitute. Perhaps they have come to the UK and been unable to sustain themselves in other ways. The idea of the Big Issue is to provide the vendor an income that allows them to do more than to 'survive'. The intention is to provide vendors with a stable income to allow them to develop skills through training and to find permanent employment.
£1.50 is the price, not much more than my Sunday paper, actually less than the Observer!
It is a good read, with easy Sudoko...
Try speaking to the vendors, I spend at least ten minutes every week chatting to them, and most of them are real stars. You might just get to know why they are selling the Big Issue.
Thanks boozeburgler you saved my fingers there......my thoughts exactly!
SandTiger
22-Jan-08, 20:37
It's even being sold outside the Thurso branch of Lidls as of today. Just bunged her a quid and let her keep the paper for the next punter :lol:
It's only money after all :roll:
SandTiger
22-Jan-08, 20:45
there outside woolies in thurso right now, two of them, asked me i said no, when i came out i got asked again... dont trust them, im sure one of them was one that was at my parents door trying to sell pictures
Gee whiz, that's terrible! Did you see the 'picture sellers' on the day in question? Now selling dish cloths door to door, I can understand!!
one of the sellers was in woolies and looking very suspicious but i noticed a member of staff was watching her alot
Let's hope the Pick & Mix section has been spared from plunder as a result ;)
im sorry if i dont want to give my money to people who are rather rude when selling things
northener
22-Jan-08, 21:18
Well, Boozeburglar, you've managed to miss the point of my post by a few hundred miles.
'Foreign individuals'?
Being here in Scotland, where our culture is one of inclusivity and tolerance, I cannot see what relevance it has that they are of non-Scottish origin It undermines the point you are trying to make to mention that.
I just knew someone would home in on those words......
Because I am rather crudely trying to give people an idea of who these people are. Presumably I should not give any information that may help anyone identify them? If they had say, English accents, I would say so - but somehow I don't think you'd comment on that would you? Maybe it would stop someone else who is selling TBI being tarred with the same brush.
If you have concerns over whether some people are getting rich selling the Big Issue, I think you need more than the fact they might collectively have access to a vehicle to convince me.
Read the post, Einstein. I have never made any comment about how much they are earning. I don't buy into this 'beggars get rich' guff, so don't even think about pulling that one.
People who are deemed homeless according to the Big Issue's own guidelines do not need to be destitute. Perhaps they have come to the UK and been unable to sustain themselves in other ways. The idea of the Big Issue is to provide the vendor an income that allows them to do more than to 'survive'. The intention is to provide vendors with a stable income to allow them to develop skills through training and to find permanent employment.
True, but I think that being able to run a vehicle implies that a certain amount of money is present. The car they are running is worth at least £2500, plus tax, ins, fuel and maintenance. This does NOT put them in the same category as some poor sod who has been sleeping rough or in hostels through personal problems or mental illness. THAT is what the Big Issue is all about.
I've been closer than most to people who are in desperate straits on the street and believe me, NONE of them could afford to even think about running any car. They are genuinely more concerned with finding the money to supply their own needs on a day to day basis.
The capital and running costs tied up in the vehicle would provide a deposit for a property to let or the means to further oneself. If you are not willing to put your own money into your future - don't expect me to do it for you. You could cover ground a damn sight cheaper by taking trains and buses.
When I lived down south, I used to buy TBI on a very regular basis. I'm a big fan of the whole concept and still buy when I can. I couldn't give a toss what accent or ethnicity the vendor has, but I'm damned if I'm going to stand back and watch professional beggars spoil the hard work put in by countless individuals accross the UK.
I've seen more scammers on the street than I can shake a stick at over the years, I can suss out legit guys pretty quickly. That's not bullpoop, it comes from years of working around them. And these three are NOT legit.
Please take your xenophobia back home to your country.
Cheap shot.
.
SandTiger
22-Jan-08, 21:24
im sorry if i dont want to give my money to people who are rather rude when selling things
No need for an apology but you never answered the question on linking these people selling the Big Issue to the person whom was trying to sell a picture at your parents door?
How was the seller of the Big Issue rude to you?
I could of course, really push the boat out and ask you define what 'looking very suspicious' within Woolworths means to you?
No need for an apology but you never answered the question on linking these people selling the Big Issue to the person whom was trying to sell a picture at your parents door?
How was the seller of the Big Issue rude to you?
I could of course, really push the boat out and ask you define what 'looking very suspicious' within Woolworths means to you?
the woman selling big issue was the same woman who tried to get my mother to buy her drawings when she came to her door and shoved a tile in her face saying she that she couldnt speak english yet today she had no problem in asking me if i want a big issue, rude - well when asked if i wanted a big issue i said no she repeated and kept asking, no means no, as to looking suspicious well walking around the aisles in woolies, watching what everyone was doing, and staff watching her, is what i call suspicious:eek:
that good enough for u!
Just to argue the toss!
Northener..you seem to be saying that you know something about these people but rather than telling us you are kinda 'guiding' us to it..this is the org mate... Point and label!:D
As for their transport...who is to say that a charitable organisation has not laid on transport for them..if they had kissed each other farewell and hopped into a few BMW's you might have a point.
Ash..by your own admission the assistants in woolies were watching this person closely..would that encourage you to act 'normally'?:eek:
As for my credentials to speak....I was 'homeless' after leaving someone whose idea of fun it was to drag me by the hair and stamp on my throat...luckily I was rehoused within a year ,but for that time I very much relied on the kindness of folks who put me up and I would not wish that vulnerability on anyone.
Maybe these guys are genuine ..maybe not!
No-one is holding a gun to your head to purchase and you can report them if needs be.
Why start (another) witch hunt here?
Agree 100% with you Karia.
I am glad you had friends to support you xx
mandy&baz
22-Jan-08, 22:04
OMG the scum bags!!! thats so wrong!!!
SandTiger
22-Jan-08, 22:05
the woman selling big issue was the same woman who tried to get my mother to buy her drawings when she came to her door and shoved a tile in her face saying she that she couldnt speak english yet today she had no problem in asking me if i want a big issue, rude - well when asked if i wanted a big issue i said no she repeated and kept asking, no means no, as to looking suspicious well walking around the aisles in woolies, watching what everyone was doing, and staff watching her, is what i call suspicious:eek:
that good enough for u!
Nope!
The same women *presented a card* (remove emotive term of 'shoved a tile in her face') and despite not being able to speak English was able to say that she could not speak English - Maybe they just didn't have anything in common? Were your parents threatened, intimidated or just hashed off at having Johnny Foreigner coming to the door?
So she (allegedly, her of the great picture selling swindle) asked you in fluent English to purchase a copy of The Big Issue, Did you engage her in conversation to check her English Language abilities or did you just grunt a refusal as you passed by? Maybe she had difficulties understanding you?
Was the whole Woolworths fiasco just a figment of your imagination where you desperately and momentarily wished to become a store detective and rid our fair town of these 'suspicious people'?
You seem to be channeling a lot of energy into it :roll:
Nope!
The same women *presented a card* (remove emotive term of 'shoved a tile in her face') and despite not being able to speak English was able to say that she could not speak English - Maybe they just didn't have anything in common? Were your parents threatened, intimidated or just hashed off at having Johnny Foreigner coming to the door?
So she (allegedly, her of the great picture selling swindle) asked you in fluent English to purchase a copy of The Big Issue, Did you engage her in conversation to check her English Language abilities or did you just grunt a refusal as you passed by? Maybe she had difficulties understanding you?
Was the whole Woolworths fiasco just a figment of your imagination where you desperately and momentarily wished to become a store detective and rid our fair town of these 'suspicious people'?
You seem to be channeling a lot of energy into it :roll:
your a sad sad person who just wants to start arguments on the org get a grip seriously!!! go find someone else to harass
Would I be right in saying these people are eastern european?
It wouldnt be fair to tar them all with the same brush but i read last week of how they are forcing genuinely homeless "beggars" off of the streets of Glasgow due to being very organised and imtimidating.
Some people wonder why we should stop assylum seekers coming over here.
This is probably why. If you see people coming over from eastern europe and forcing their way into running as many scams as they can wouldnt you feel the same?
After all dont we all have a laugh at the scammers from Nigeria who send the e-mails trying to scam us?.
The difference being this is affecting people on OUR doorstep and they need to be stopped.
if you can afford to cruise around in a chrysler Voyager then you shouldnt be selling the Big issue and depriving some needy individual who does.
I apologise if some read this the wrong way and accuse me of racism, that is not my intention, it is purely my point of view and I am entitled to it as you are to yours.
northener
22-Jan-08, 22:08
No witch hunt Karia.
As for Charitable transport.......hmmmm.................no.
It's not the vehicle itself, Karia, it is the fact they are using peoples' goodwill to profit whilst running a vehicle that, if they were genuinely in need of the funds from TBI - they wouldn't be able - or willing - to run.
Regarding purchasing or not, well, that's not really the (big) issue. It's about peoples cynical manipulation to get sympathy votes, to line their own pockets - at the expense of genuine sellers.
Report to who? Not a police matter, Council could object to them selling on the street, but they'll be long gone before any action could be taken.
Nope, make people aware of the situation and them it's up to the individual whether they buy off them or not.
.
Nope!
The same women *presented a card* (remove emotive term of 'shoved a tile in her face') and despite not being able to speak English was able to say that she could not speak English - Maybe they just didn't have anything in common? Were your parents threatened, intimidated or just hashed off at having Johnny Foreigner coming to the door?
So she (allegedly, her of the great picture selling swindle) asked you in fluent English to purchase a copy of The Big Issue, Did you engage her in conversation to check her English Language abilities or did you just grunt a refusal as you passed by? Maybe she had difficulties understanding you?
Was the whole Woolworths fiasco just a figment of your imagination where you desperately and momentarily wished to become a store detective and rid our fair town of these 'suspicious people'?
You seem to be channeling a lot of energy into it :
That seems a bit of a cheap shot and I agree it does look like you are looking for an argument.
Ask the nurse by the desk to up the medication then things might not seem so bad!!! :)
(thats a joke by the way :))
SandTiger
22-Jan-08, 22:13
your a sad sad person who just wants to start arguments on the org get a grip seriously!!! go find someone else to harass
Please, your compliments overwhelm me ;)
SandTiger
22-Jan-08, 22:16
That seems a bit of a cheap shot and I agree it does look like you are looking for an argument.
Ask the nurse by the desk to up the medication then things might not seem so bad!!! :)
(thats a joke by the way :))
Actually I was looking for intelligent and dispassionate debate but I guess I was asking for a bit much (can't do a smiley 'cos the post already has 2)
[quote=northener;327588
As for Charitable transport.......hmmmm.................no
Report to who? Not a police matter, Council could object to them selling on the street, but they'll be long gone before any action could be taken.
Nope, make people aware of the situation and them it's up to the individual whether they buy off them or not.
.[/quote]
'hmm... no' doesn't make it a fact.
Report to the people who run the 'Big Issue' they have the registrations and can give you factual answers
..and If they'll be long gone then hopefully we won't have to listen more 'anti eastern europe diatribe until the next time folks need a 'fall guy'.
Isn't the biggest danger here that you have made everyone so suspicious of their fellow man that 'genuine' or not..nobody will be buying a 'Big issue' in caithness?
SandTiger
22-Jan-08, 22:32
Hey Ash, thanx for my first ever Neg Feedback and I really do promise to 'get a life' as soon as you promise to give up your xenophobic (there's a new word for you to look up in the dictionary) postings and find yourself a real life where you are able to embrace everyone despite their race.
theres lots of things i could say, but i wish not do, but i will say one thing i am not at all a racist!!!
ur welcome for the bad rep u deserved it
Highland Laddie
22-Jan-08, 22:49
Hey Ash, thanx for my first ever Neg Feedback and I really do promise to 'get a life' as soon as you promise to give up your xenophobic (there's a new word for you to look up in the dictionary) postings and find yourself a real life where you are able to embrace everyone despite their race.
Don't worry m8, your not the first, I’ve had negative feedback from Ash for daring to contradict her bias degradation of smokers outside Tesco.
I posted a link to the Big Issue site before as I think it addresses a few of the points made on this thread. Like every other system it can be abused but as with, for instance, benefits etc., no-one knows the real truth behind a single person's background. It seems a pity to tar everyone with the same brush without first following the correct procedure to report them to the authorities who can deal with any mis-users. Surely seeing justice being done would be much more satisfactory than suppositions on a forum. Below is a quote taken from the site.....
"Before being allowed to sell, vendors are issued with an official badge. They can only buy and sell magazines whilst displaying the badge, and the public must never buy from a vendor without a badge. This is important as non-badged 'vendors' may have extorted magazines from legitimate sellers, and may be using the magazine as a front for crime.
You can download the Vendor Code Of Conduct by clicking here (http://forum.caithness.org/go.php?url=http://www.bigissue.com/codeofconduct.doc).
If you have any comments about vendor behaviour, please call our Sales Support Team:
London: 020 7526 3444 OR email vendor.comments@bigissue.com (vendor.comments@bigissue.com).
Brighton: 01273 234781
South West: 0117 908 0090
Midlands: 0121 333 5860
Wales: 029 2025 5670
North: 0161 279 7808
Scotland: 0141 418 7000
Selling The Big Issue
In London, after being 'badged up', vendors receive ten papers, but this policy varies across the country. Thereafter, vendors buy the magazine upfront at a whole sale rate of usually 40-50% of cover price. The magazine's cover price is currently £1.40. Vendors keep the difference (currently 80p per copy).
Some members of the public are concerned about how vendors spend their money. The Big Issue believes that all people must take responsibility for themselves, and homeless people have as much right to spend their earnings as they wish as anyone else.
Vendors are not employed by The Big Issue. They are retailers, and as such, are responsible for their own tax, book keeping and timekeeping etc. This is in keeping with The Big Issue's ethos of self help, and helps vendors to learn new skills at the same time as earning an income.
Vendor Support
The Big Issue Foundation provides on-site support for homeless people to access.
Our team of trained outreach workers also visits vendors on their pitches, dealing with any problems, ensuring vendors are well and that they are abiding by the terms of their agreement. They often act as a referral and advice service.
As well as distribution points in towns and cities, The Big Issue operates van runs to rural areas."
Don't worry m8, your not the first, I’ve had negative feedback from Ash for daring to contradict her bias degradation of smokers outside Tesco.
oh for goodness sake! i can give bad rep to whom i please,especially when the same people gang up on others, im soo sorry i didnt want to inhale someones smoke or for my 3year old to, god im such a bad person!
nowhere have i said im a racist or that im against big issue sellers!
Highland Laddie
22-Jan-08, 22:58
oh for goodness sake! i can give bad rep to whom i please,especially when the same people gang up on others, im soo sorry i didnt want to inhale someones smoke or for my 3year old to, god im such a bad person!
Now now Ash, i am not and never have ganged up on you, i had a point of view that was different than yours, end of story.
Now now Ash, i am not and never have ganged up on you, i had a point of view that was different than yours, end of story.
you had no need to announce that i had given you bad rep! ive had bad rep and not broadcasted it, pointless!
SandTiger
22-Jan-08, 23:03
theres lots of things i could say, but i wish not do, but i will say one thing i am not at all a racist!!!
Not even a little bit? After all, they've come up here to aggressively sell *our* homeless peoples copies of the Big Issue. So will you be buying it from now on?
ur welcome for the bad rep u deserved it
Gee, thanx sweetie, but you should hear what they have to say about you ;)
I read an article about this...how in the big cities a lot of eastern europeans are selling the big issue but are not homeless at all. Its how they make a living, rather than simply a means to survive, which is the whole point of the big issue. Its putting people off buying the big issue whcih means genuine sellers are suffering. There's no way I'd buy one from them. Like Northerner, I don't grudge buying it or contributing to someones welfare if they genuinely need help but this is just a big scam.I read an article about romanians taking over our local transient's pitches. They say they can make as much as £300 per week from begging which they could never hope for in their own country.
if i politely say no to buying something then that should be enough, 3 times is very annoying, i didnt wish to buy the big issue, i have bought it previously, its my choice
northener
22-Jan-08, 23:08
'hmm... no' doesn't make it a fact.
Report to the people who run the 'Big Issue' they have the registrations and can give you factual answers
..and If they'll be long gone then hopefully we won't have to listen more 'anti eastern europe diatribe until the next time folks need a 'fall guy'.
Isn't the biggest danger here that you have made everyone so suspicious of their fellow man that 'genuine' or not..nobody will be buying a 'Big issue' in caithness?
If someone chooses to make this an 'anti Eastern European' issue, well, more fool them. They've obviously not taken onboard what this thread (my postings, anyway) is about.
If I avoided any issue on the grounds that it may turn into a slagging match against a whole group of people, then I'm afraid that would be me Kow-towing down to the PC brigade....NO chance.
People can and do make of my posts what they will. I will always respond intelligently (well, at least i think so) to genuine constructive argument.
As for making everyone suspicious of TBI sellers....come off it, Karia. We've had people selling TBI in Wick before and no-one (not me anyway) has ever queried it at all. Yes, not even those vendors who are 'foreign'!
It's rather like saying that I shouldn't comment on people who sell dodgy gear door to door out of vans as it may lead to all drivers of white transit vans being viewed as criminals. Now they are all criminals!:lol:
BTW, legitimate TBI sellers would never badger punters who say no. Following punters and pleading with them is not part of the pitch - which more than a couple of shoppers in Wick have commented on.
Oh, one more thing, you could only chase up their licenced vendors badges if they were all wearing them...........
.
There is no rule saying they have to sell in the area where they live. After all, most of the 'pitches' in the bigger towns and cities are taken.
'Foreign individuals'?
Being here in Scotland, where our culture is one of inclusivity and tolerance, I cannot see what relevance it has that they are of non-Scottish origin It undermines the point you are trying to make to mention that.
Please take your xenophobia back home to your country.
If you have concerns over whether some people are getting rich selling the Big Issue, I think you need more than the fact they might collectively have access to a vehicle to convince me.
People who are deemed homeless according to the Big Issue's own guidelines do not need to be destitute. Perhaps they have come to the UK and been unable to sustain themselves in other ways. The idea of the Big Issue is to provide the vendor an income that allows them to do more than to 'survive'. The intention is to provide vendors with a stable income to allow them to develop skills through training and to find permanent employment.
£1.50 is the price, not much more than my Sunday paper, actually less than the Observer!
It is a good read, with easy Sudoko...
Try speaking to the vendors, I spend at least ten minutes every week chatting to them, and most of them are real stars. You might just get to know why they are selling the Big Issue.We have enough to do supporting our own homeless without importing them from another country.
SandTiger
22-Jan-08, 23:09
if i politely say no to buying something then that should be enough, 3 times is very annoying, i didnt wish to buy the big issue, i have bought it previously, its my choice
And you have the cheek to tell me to get a life?? [lol][lol]
s!:lol:
Oh, one more thing, you could only chase up their licenced vendors badges if they were all wearing them...........
.
If they aren't..there you have your fakes..easy!
why tar the rest of them?:confused
We have enough to do supporting our own homeless without importing them from another country.
He was talking areas..not countries!:confused
Though while we are at it..we're all jock Thamsons bairns!:D
And you have the cheek to tell me to get a life?? [lol][lol]So what, she said she didn't want something. For them to keep insisting is aggressive begging which is illegal!
Highland Laddie
22-Jan-08, 23:22
you had no need to announce that i had given you bad rep! ive had bad rep and not broadcasted it, pointless!
What is bad rep??? it doesn't stop me from feeding my family, it certainly doesn't stop me from posting on the org, so what is the problem, to the best of my knowledge,(please correct me if i'm wrong) i have never ganged up on you or anyone else on the org, i like everyone else here have the opportunity to have my say.
So what, she said she didn't want something. For them to keep insisting is aggressive begging which is illegal!
Yup! she said she didn't want it..then hung around to say it 3 times!:eek:
No wonder they were confused!
He was talking areas..not countries!:confused
Though while we are at it..we're all jock Thamsons bairns!:DZenophobia? He was talking about foreign nationals and northerners perceived zenophobia.
SandTiger
22-Jan-08, 23:31
So what, she said she didn't want something. For them to keep insisting is aggressive begging which is illegal!
Go round them up with some ASBO's Tonto ;)
That'll learn them!
northener
22-Jan-08, 23:32
If they aren't..there you have your fakes..easy!
why tar the rest of them?:confused
QED...........
Go round them up with some ASBO's Tonto ;)
That'll learn them!Smart thinking batman. You are happy to have agressve begging others are not, live with it.
It's just a domestic dispute or a few non mortgage payments away guys..a couple of months later Auntie Sheila will want her spare room back.
..acht couldnae happen to you.....right?!;)
Yup! she said she didn't want it..then hung around to say it 3 times!:eek:
No wonder they were confused!How long do you suppose she hung around? How long does it take to ask a question 3 times and get rebuffed?
It's just a domestic dispute or a few non mortgage payments away guys..a couple of months later Auntie Sheila will want her spare room back.
..acht couldnae happen to you.....right?!;)Yes karia we could all end up homeless but will we travel hundreds of miles to beg for salvation?
How long do you suppose she hung around? How long does it take to ask a question 3 times and get rebuffed?
As she has no disabilities that I am aware of and is a busy mum..I'd have thought she'd be well away..particularly if she felt hassled!:confused
Yes karia we could all end up homeless but will we travel hundreds of miles to beg for salvation?
If salvation was not to be found at home then..yes!:confused
As she has no disabilities that I am aware of and is a busy mum..I'd have thought she'd be well away..particularly if she felt hassled!:confusedHow long does it take someone to hassle another
aggressively?
If salvation was not to be found at home then..yes!:confusedI have no answer for you Karia other than these people should stay in their own countries if they are not equipped to work for a living.
SandTiger
22-Jan-08, 23:52
Smart thinking batman. You are happy to have agressve begging others are not, live with it.
Seriously TBH, I have not found the Big Issue sellers to be aggressively begging when I have passed them, maybe I'm a little more desensitised to what may be termed as aggression up here, maybe not?
'Oh I was asked 3 times to buy the Big Issue' - So what!
It's just a domestic dispute or a few non mortgage payments away guys..a couple of months later Auntie Sheila will want her spare room back.
Or in my own case a business bankruptcy - not being a limited company we lost our home and had it not been for a very kind friend who put us up for the month it took to get jobs and find a modest flat to rent....:eek:
All kinds of people can end up homeless often through no fault of their own.
As a result of my own experience some years ago, I always support Big Issue vendors (and the charity, Shelter) as much as I can.
If you feel a vendor isn't genuine, ask to see their badge; if you feel bullied or harassed by a vendor, get in touch with the Big Issue and report them. That would do a lot more good than having a moan and a rant on a forum. IMHO. :)
I have no answer for you Karia other than these people should stay in their own countries if they are not equipped to work for a living.
I'm sure they are equipped to work for a living..perhaps the only jobs available were trying to get people to switch fuel providers and they had moral objections.:D
A 'stroppy' street vendor (if indeed they are stroppy) would be well equipped to 'Doorstep' for scottish power and the like!;)
I'd rather sell the Big issue than a big lie!
I'm sure they are equipped to work for a living..perhaps the only jobs available were trying to get people to switch fuel providers and they had moral objections.
A 'stroppy' street vendor (if indeed they are stroppy) would be well equipped to 'Doorstep' for scottish power and the like!;)
I'd rather sell the Big issue than a big lie!This is not their country, switching fuel providers is not their concern. These people should not be allowed in our country, they are a drain on our society.;)
Stop using two smilies you are making it difficult for me lol.
SandTiger
23-Jan-08, 00:19
This is not their country, switching fuel providers is not their concern. These people should not be allowed in our country, they are a drain on our society.
Uh huh :roll:
He was talking areas..not countries!:confused
Though while we are at it..we're all jock Thamsons bairns!:D
These Bairns are not, they are taking the bread out of our Big Issue sales persons mouths.
http://edinburghnews.scotsman.com/latestnews/Vendors--to-strike-as.3540213.jp (http://forum.caithness.org/go.php?url=http://edinburghnews.scotsman.com/latestnews/Vendors--to-strike-as.3540213.jp)
Uh huh :roll:
Oh, the old uh huh and the raised eyebrows.:roll: Should un-productive members of another country be allowed to beg in ours?
[quote=TBH;327705]This is not their country, These people should not be allowed in our country, they are a drain on our society.;)
Ah! there's the 'real' argument..why were you wasting our time?
SandTiger
23-Jan-08, 00:26
Oh, the old uh huh and the raised eyebrows.:roll: Should un-productive members of another country be allowed to beg in ours?
Are we discussing selling the Big Issue or begging, maybe you see it as the same?
[quote=TBH;327705]This is not their country, These people should not be allowed in our country, they are a drain on our society.;)
Ah! there's the 'real' argument..why were you wasting our time?How do you mean wasting our time? My point is that the big issue should be sold by our own homeless for their benefit. We should not have people from other countries coming here to beg.
Are we discussing selling the Big Issue or begging, maybe you see it as the same?No sandtiger I am not confusing the selling of the big issue with begging. let's get that straight.
SandTiger
23-Jan-08, 00:40
[quote=karia;327719]How do you mean wasting our time? My point is that the big issue should be sold by our own homeless for their benefit. We should not have people from other countries coming here to beg.
But it's not begging, it is an initiative based on helping oneself 'earn a living' where one pays 70p for a magazine and then sells it on at a marginal profit. There is a criteria for those eligible to buy and sell the magazine and also this includes people coming in from the the European borders should they fall into the same criteria.
Look, we have our own homeless, they sell the big issue to make money to survive, is that understandable? What this country does not need are people from other countries coming here to sell the big issue. We have our own homeless to care for. These people are un-productive members of their own countries, why should we be happy to accept them?
[quote=karia;327719]How do you mean wasting our time? My point is that the big issue should be sold by our own homeless for their benefit. We should not have people from other countries coming here to beg.
I think SandTiger covered this..begging is not the same as selling the big issue.
Homeless is Homeless wherever you are..I would hate to extend my assistance simply within a borderline..
It is indeed safer to be without a dwelling here than in many countries...sadly one can make these sordid distinctions!:(
[quote=TBH;327728]
But it's not begging, it is an initiative based on helping oneself 'earn a living' where one pays 70p for a magazine and then sells it on at a marginal profit. There is a criteria for those eligible to buy and sell the magazine and also this includes people coming in from the the European borders should they fall into the same criteria.Why should we accept the unemployed, homless from other countries, let us deal with our own first.
I think SandTiger covered this..begging is not the same as selling the big issue.
Homeless is Homeless wherever you are..I would hate to extend my assistance simply within a borderline..
It is indeed safer to be without a dwelling here than in many countries...sadly one can make these sordid distinctions!:(Let their own countries deal with them.[disgust]
[quote=SandTiger;327733]Why should we accept the unemployed, homless from other countries, let us deal with our own first.
why shouldn't we?
Hunger and homelessness don't have an accent..or a priority rating!
[quote=karia;327735]Let their own countries deal with them.[disgust]
I guess we are not all 'citizens of the world' then?;)
[quote=TBH;327736]
why shouldn't we?
Hunger and homelessness don't have an accent..or a priority rating!Because we shouldn't, we don't have the resources and we don't pay our taxes for the benefit of other countries. Tell me Karia, why should their own countries not be responsible for their own homeless?
[quote=TBH;327737]
I guess we are not all 'citizens of the world' then?;)
Why should we be when Charity begins at Home
[quote=TBH;327737]
I guess we are not all 'citizens of the world' then?;)absolutely not!!! Let's sort out our own problems.
SandTiger
23-Jan-08, 00:54
[quote=SandTiger;327733]Why should we accept the unemployed, homless from other countries, let us deal with our own first.
Because, put simply, we are legally obliged to do so. Just like we are happy to accept the so called 'productive' member of EU countries whom will gladly take on jobs that others here will not we also take on those that come here with an equal wish of wanting to better themselves and maybe not being quite so lucky in the first instance.
I think on balance you'll find that there are more people leaving the UK then entering it.
[quote=karia;327738]Because we shouldn't, we don't have the resources and we don't pay our taxes for the benefit of other countries. ell me Karia, why should their own countries not be responsible for their own homeless?
They should...but if they fail to do so..do we let folks suffer?
Haven't we a grand record for giving to those 'without'..not their governments but the dispossessed of all nations?
Isn't that what makes us who we are?
I must leave this debate and get some sleep..but I will look in on it first thing..thanks for the craic!
SandTiger
23-Jan-08, 00:56
[quote=karia;327739]
Why should we be when Charity begins at Home
Welcome to the global village ;)
[quote=TBH;327736]
Because, put simply, we are legally obliged to do so. Just like we are happy to accept the so called 'productive' member of EU countries whom will gladly take on jobs that others here will not we also take on those that come here with an equal wish of wanting to better themselves and maybe not being quite so lucky in the first instance.
I think on balance you'll find that there are more people leaving the UK then entering it.We are legally obliged to allow people from the member states of the European union to come into our country to work. I never realised it made us responsible for their work-shy and homeless also?
[quote=TBH;327736]
Because, put simply, we are legally obliged to do so. Just like we are happy to accept the so called 'productive' member of EU countries whom will gladly take on jobs that others here will not we also take on those that come here with an equal wish of wanting to better themselves and maybe not being quite so lucky in the first instance.
I think on balance you'll find that there are more people leaving the UK then entering it.
I agree they are doing the jobs that others will simply not do they better themselves at every opportunity hard working and willing to learn and believe it or not some of them are really well educated and even improve that status they also like to climb the ladder of promotion which gives them a great deal of self esteem and honour , they rent houses at higher than norm rents and in some cases end up owning them by sheer hard work and 16 hr days plus if we do a 8hr day we complain they pay there taxes as we do
in some of the cases and I say not all they would be appalled to think that they are a charity case
As for the big Issue I do buy them and buy them a cup of soup or hot chocolate when I can and they are all Scottish people not that matters a jot
[quote=SandTiger;327743]
I agree they are doing the jobs that others will simply not do they better themselves at every opportunity hard working and willing to learn and believe it or not some of them are really well educated and even improve that status they also like to climb the ladder of promotion which gives them a great deal of self esteem and honour , they rent houses at higher than norm rents and in some cases end up owning them by sheer hard work and 16 hr days plus if we do a 8hr day we complain they pay there taxes as we do
in some of the cases and I say not all they would be appalled to think that they are a charity case
As for the big Issue I do buy them and buy them a cup of soup or hot chocolate when I can and they are all Scottish people not that matters a jotThat was sandtiger not me that you are quoting.:D
[quote=Anne x;327757]That was sandtiger not me that you are quoting.:D
is that not the name at the top of my quote whoever said it does it really matter Im tired
SandTiger
23-Jan-08, 01:31
[quote=SandTiger;327743]We are legally obliged to allow people from the member states of the European union to come into our country to work. I never realised it made us responsible for their work-shy and homeless also?
Current EU regulations stipulate that you are entitled to the same social security and welfare benefits as nationals of the host country. These rights cover sickness and maternity benefits, disability, benefits payable for accidents at work, occupational illness, death and unemployment, as well as family allowances. To qualify, you must pay the same contributions as nationals of the host country.
Sorry mate
SandTiger
23-Jan-08, 01:33
[quote=Anne x;327757]That was sandtiger not me that you are quoting.:D
The quote thingy seems to have gone a little skew whiff tonight :D
Isnt it also true that alot of these immigrants come over here earn money and send it back to their own country,where they will return and live a very pleasant and "rich" life?
I admit some countries are war torn,etc but this is eastern europe we are talking about,the same area where thay are crying out for their ex-pats to return as they have a skills shortage!!!!
I am all for people making money regardless of their origin but I object to being "cheated" by people entering the UK and scamming or ripping off the locals of that country.What was the old saying "dont bite the hand that feeds you?"
Maybe we should translate it and post it at Dover docks.
northener
23-Jan-08, 10:22
Just to re-state the original point of this thread:
1. I believe that 3 individuals are masquerading as legitimate TBI sellers.
2. 2 out of the 3 I saw from a close distance - they were not wearing ID.
3. If they can afford to run a fairly large vehicle - they are not as hard up as they would have us believe. I have been very skint in the past and do not believe that funding a vehicle is a priority or even possible for someone who genuinely needs the support of TBI.
4. If they are not, as I believe legit, then they are professional beggars as far as I am concerned. I think you will find that a beggar is someone who relies on the charity of others - a professional beggar is someone who plays on other peoples' goodwill for profit.
5. I find this extremely offensive as it puts all TBI vendors in a bad light and undermines their credibility in the eyes of the public.
No Xenophobia, no problems with legitimate TBI vendors, no problems with people having to rely on charity - just a pathological hatred for those who seek to dupe other members of their community.[disgust]
.
helenwyler
23-Jan-08, 10:35
Charity begins at Home
I dislike this expression so much:mad:!
Charity may begin at home, but the expression does not say that it ends at home either:confused.
And 'charity' in its wider meaning means 'love for one's fellow man'.... not just your family at home.
I am pretty sure you could check with the Big Issue offices, I can't find a link but I do remember reading something similar to this a while back.
If they are not legitimate they will do the geniune BI sellers a lot of damage.
They are stigmatised enough without extra hassle.
I dislike this expression so much:mad:!
Charity may begin at home, but the expression does not say that it ends at home either:confused.
And 'charity' in its wider meaning means 'love for one's fellow man'.... not just your family at home.
I am not speaking about the org here, but most times I hear someone say this they are usually the type of person who does sod all for anyone whether at home or not.
As she has no disabilities that I am aware of and is a busy mum..I'd have thought she'd be well away..particularly if she felt hassled!:confused
yes i am a busy mum, but i was in the area they were selling, was not hanging around for them to ask three times!
Current EU regulations stipulate that you are entitled to the same social security and welfare benefits as nationals of the host country. These rights cover sickness and maternity benefits, disability, benefits payable for accidents at work, occupational illness, death and unemployment, as well as family allowances. To qualify, you must pay the same contributions as nationals of the host country.
Sorry mateThat is all very well if you come to this country to work then yes you are entitled to the same benefits, you can even claim child benefit in this country for children that you left in your own. The point is we have no obligation to provide for foreign nationals that have come here with the sole purpose of presenting themselves as homeless just so they can sell the big issue. As I have already said, we have enough homless people of our own to deal with, let's do that first without importing more.
Isnt it also true that alot of these immigrants come over here earn money and send it back to their own country,where they will return and live a very pleasant and "rich" life?
I admit some countries are war torn,etc but this is eastern europe we are talking about,the same area where thay are crying out for their ex-pats to return as they have a skills shortage!!!!
I am all for people making money regardless of their origin but I object to being "cheated" by people entering the UK and scamming or ripping off the locals of that country.What was the old saying "dont bite the hand that feeds you?"
Maybe we should translate it and post it at Dover docks.Maybe they do send some money home but they still have to pay their rent, taxes and other living expenses whilst working here.
Penelope Pitstop
23-Jan-08, 13:16
They are out again in the Thurso precinct this morning. A girl selling it as I walked into a shop - when I came out a guy was selling it in her place. They were indeed foreign.
I declined to buy a copy from them. I wondered at the time how could it be worth their while to come up here, probably stay in B&B and afford to eat on what they would make out of selling copies of the Big Issue in Thurso precinct!
Penelope Pitstop
23-Jan-08, 13:18
That is all very well if you come to this country to work then yes you are entitled to the same benefits, you can even claim child benefit in this country for children that you left in your own. The point is we have no obligation to provide for foreign nationals that have come here with the sole purpose of presenting themselves as homeless just so they can sell the big issue. As I have already said, we have enough homless people of our own to deal with, let's do that first without importing more.
I agree TBH, let's get the people in our own country sorted out first.
NickInTheNorth
23-Jan-08, 13:38
The Big Vehicle issue - what is to say that they were originally in this country working, bought a vehicle to get them from there housing to place of work, lost the job, and the housing, and thus became homeless? Why should they then be forced into selling their means of transport?
They clearly are not work shy, selling the big issue out on the street is hard work, the weather can be atrocious, the public can be so ignorant.
If you have concerns ask to see their badges - if they do not have them complain, if they have then you know you have found some genuine hard working folk that are trying to help themselves.
Engage the in conversation for a while and broaden your horizons!
They clearly are not work shy, selling the big issue out on the street is hard work, the weather can be atrocious, the public can be so ignorant.
Hard work? I can think of many jobs which ARE hard work - selling TBI is not one of them.
Highland Laddie
23-Jan-08, 14:03
I can understand the arguments from both sides here, but what I do object to, is the very large amounts of cash that go overseas to help the poor,
Where it has been proven that vast amounts of the cash never reaches the needy.
We have the likes of the pensioners in our own country who die of hypothermia because they can't afford to eat and heat their homes, I think that's what charity begins at home should mean.
Sort this out then by all means help others.
NickInTheNorth
23-Jan-08, 14:10
Hard work? I can think of many jobs which ARE hard work - selling TBI is not one of them.
Try it for a day, and then tell me it isn't :~(
I can understand the arguments from both sides here, but what I do object to, is the very large amounts of cash that go overseas to help the poor,
Where it has been proven that vast amounts of the cash never reaches the needy.
We have the likes of the pensioners in our own country who die of hypothermia because they can't afford to eat and heat their homes, I think that's what charity begins at home should mean.
Sort this out then by all means help others.Totally agree.
highlander
23-Jan-08, 14:31
Why have you tried selling them Nickinthenorth, please tell me why you think its hard work?
It's pretty laughable how the selling the big issue could be classed as hard work. Hard in what way? It's not physically demanding work nor is it mentally challenging.
hardwork is being a gravedigger for over 30years like my dad does! now thats hard work,
crashbandicoot1979
23-Jan-08, 14:41
I would say its hard work in the sense that the vendors have to stand outside in all weathers, plus they need to sell quite a few in order to make a decent amount of money on it. Plus I've seen genuine sellers get abuse for simply asking someone politely if they want to buy a copy. But the problem is that its easy money for those that are not as hard up as some and who use it as a scam (which is, I think, the point behind northerners original post??)
Personally I think its disgraceful that eastern europeans come over here then simply beg on our streets. And before anyone accuses me of racism I would be just as disgusted if a scottish person moved to romania for the sole reason that they could get more money by begging there.
Personally I think its disgraceful that eastern europeans come over here then simply beg on our streets. And before anyone accuses me of racism I would be just as disgusted if a scottish person moved to romania for the sole reason that they could get more money by begging there.How could it possibly be misconstrued as racism just because you don't want people from another county coming over here to beg. Only a fool would accuse you of that. It has been well documented in the national papers about some, not all romanians coming here and selling the big issue. It should never be accepted, we don't need them here, send them home.[disgust]
The Big Vehicle issue - what is to say that they were originally in this country working, bought a vehicle to get them from there housing to place of work, lost the job, and the housing, and thus became homeless? Why should they then be forced into selling their means of transport
Because if I lost my job the car would probably be the first thing to go. So why should I tax, insure and put fuel in theirs :eek:
Because if I lost my job the car would probably be the first thing to go. So why should I tax, insure and put fuel in theirs :eek:Because if you don't you will be branded a racist.[lol]
Because if you don't you will be branded a racist.[lol]
Ha ha wouldn't matter where they are from if they had a car they wouldna get a quid off me. A car is a luxury not a right.
Did anyone watch Skint, I think it was called, the guy who was busking and selling big issues always had money for fags. I really warmed to him and thought he was a great character, but he wouldn't have got a quid off me either ( and no, not because he was English [lol])
NickInTheNorth
23-Jan-08, 15:15
Why have you tried selling them Nickinthenorth, please tell me why you think its hard work?
this from crashbandicoot is just about 100% the answer I would give
I would say its hard work in the sense that the vendors have to stand outside in all weathers, plus they need to sell quite a few in order to make a decent amount of money on it. Plus I've seen genuine sellers get abuse for simply asking someone politely if they want to buy a copy.
Because if I lost my job the car would probably be the first thing to go. So why should I tax, insure and put fuel in theirs :eek:
Then you are a fool!
If you own a car, which is taxed, and MOT'd and insured then it costs nothing more than fuel to keep it running. Paying for petrol for transport is a) far cheaper, b) far more flexible and c) far more reliable than trying to get to a job using public transport. It is often the key to being able to take work which is somewhat out of the mainstream 9 to 5 urban office / lab / shop based work.
It probably means the difference between being able to work and not being able to work!
Ha ha wouldn't matter where they are from if they had a car they wouldna get a quid off me. A car is a luxury not a right.
You make it sound as though they are asking for "a quid off" you for nothing. They are trying to sell you a well written magazine which has some very enlightening articles in it which could actually teach those who sneer at it a little more about life in their own country.
The sellers of the Big Issue are not beggars. They are people that are in this country legitimately that for one reason or another have no home, and due to the short sightedness of many landlords cannot rent a place. Social landlords have insufficient housing stock and private landlords often put insurmountable obstacles in the way of the poorer in society renting. No house - no job. No job - no house. And we'd like a huge deposit, oh and we'll not have anyone that gets housing benefit either. It doesn't matter where you come from those are the realities at the poorer end of society.
So stop blaming foreigners, they are the hardworkers generally. They just are treated like scum by far too many well to do middle class idiots throughout the UK.
Then you are a fool!
If you own a car, which is taxed, and MOT'd and insured then it costs nothing more than fuel to keep it running. Paying for petrol for transport is a) far cheaper, b) far more flexible and c) far more reliable than trying to get to a job using public transport. It is often the key to being able to take work which is somewhat out of the mainstream 9 to 5 urban office / lab / shop based work.
Tax, MOT and insurance only lasts a year. Nothing more than fuel???? The amount of threads on here about the price of petrol............[disgust]
NickInTheNorth
23-Jan-08, 15:35
Tax, MOT and insurance only lasts a year. Nothing more than fuel???? The amount of threads on here about the price of petrol............
And in a year you might well get a job! If not, keep the car and declare SORN. Then when you do find a job you have a vehicle to use to get there :)
The poorer members of society know that a car even an "old banger" is beyond it's monetary value.
As to the price of petrol, may I suggest that compared to public transport to out of the way places or unsociable hours fuel costs very little indeed.
Well maybe they should open a romanian and bulgarian branch of the big issue and let them stay where they are. We've got enough homeless of our own in the UK without inviting in more. It annoys me that they are only doing this as they probably get more money begging here than they would in Bucharest or Sofia.
Romanian & Bulgarian beggars should go home & come back with qualifications to do some decent hard days paid work then come back.
NickInTheNorth
23-Jan-08, 16:51
Well maybe they should open a romanian and bulgarian branch of the big issue and let them stay where they are. We've got enough homeless of our own in the UK without inviting in more. It annoys me that they are only doing this as they probably get more money begging here than they would in Bucharest or Sofia.
Romanian & Bulgarian beggars should go home & come back with qualifications to do some decent hard days paid work then come back.
It takes some penetrating certain skulls!
Selling The Big Issue is no more begging than you local newsagent selling The Radio Times. It is a published magazine with a fair retail price.
Most of the East Europeans come here to work, often integrating themselves into the society in which they settle, and sometimes falling foul of loss of employment as do UK citizens.
Stop being racist. We can no more send them back than the Spaniards can send back our pensioners.
I do not have first hand knowlege, but I am given to understand that "Eastern Europeans" have made inroads into the control of prostitution (including the importation of underage girls apparently), the distribution of drugs and money lending in areas such as parts of London, Birmingham, Manchester, Edinburgh, Glasgow and Dundee that they were not previously active in.
They have apparently displaced Afro-Carribeans and Chinese (among others I presume) from these areas.
I do know however that women of Eastern European origin are openly begging on the streets of Falkirk and Stirling and as previously reported elsewhere, are subsequently seen being driven off in vehicles.
I must agree with Carasmam that a car is a luxury item and to say that to unburden yourself of it when in dire straits makes you a fool is itself foolish. I do have first hand experience of this. Not everyone owns their car and fuel is therefore not the only expense to be met, hire purchase/loan repayments may also have to be considered as would replacement tires and servicing costs. I would suggest that anyone who owns their own vehicle is either fairly well off or has an older vehicle.
I do not for one minute suggest that anyone who is not wearing a kilt, swilling whisky, quoting Burns and shovelling tatties and neeps down their neck is on the make at our expense but it would seem that like "Hoodies" the Eastern Europeans have been typecast by the actions of an unscruplious few. Those few are the ones that have no real place in our or any decent society and they should be rooted out and repatriated.
It takes some penetrating certain skulls!Quite so.
Selling The Big Issue is no more begging than you local newsagent selling The Radio Times. It is a published magazine with a fair retail price.
Most of the East Europeans come here to work, often integrating themselves into the society in which they settle, and sometimes falling foul of loss of employment as do UK citizens.
Stop being racist. We can no more send them back than the Spaniards can send back our pensioners.So all these migrants that are selling the big issue all over Britain have had jobs and then fallen on hard times?
Uhuh.;)
NickInTheNorth
23-Jan-08, 17:32
Quite so.
So all these migrants that are selling the big issue all over Britain have had jobs and then fallen on hard times?
Uhuh.;)
most = all on planet TBH [lol]
NickInTheNorth
23-Jan-08, 17:42
I must agree with Carasmam that a car is a luxury item and to say that to unburden yourself of it when in dire straits makes you a fool is itself foolish. I do have first hand experience of this. Not everyone owns their car and fuel is therefore not the only expense to be met, hire purchase/loan repayments may also have to be considered as would replacement tires and servicing costs. I would suggest that anyone who owns their own vehicle is either fairly well off or has an older vehicle.
Please read the thread Dusty. We are discussing folk selling the big issue!
Do you really think they have vehicles on lease / HP / Finance etc? Doubt very much they would get credit being homeless, it tends to ruin your credit rating. You clearly have no concept of life at the bottom.
I bought a car 3 years ago. It cost me £250 with 5 months MOT left. It has since passed each MOT - once I had to do some work on the breaks, cost 7p. Tyres still going strong, total mileage in that time just short of 8000 miles. A replacement tyre should I need one will cost me £10 - or £15 if I want it fitted. Insurance costs around £100 per year.£2 per week. Car tax costs £115 per year about £2.21 per year. I get 40+ miles per gallon. That vehicle is an absolute lifeline. Without it I would be restricted to the vagaries of public transport, that is not a good situation, it is almost non-existent in rural Scotland.
What value do you think that such a vehicle would have to me on the open market? What would it cost me to replace it if offered a job where I needed one?
Foolish to keep it?
You clearly have absolutely no knowledge of this type of situation at the lower end of the economic scale!
Please read the thread Dusty. We are discussing folk selling the big issue!
Do you really think they have vehicles on lease / HP / Finance etc? Doubt very much they would get credit being homeless, it tends to ruin your credit rating. You clearly have no concept of life at the bottom.
I bought a car 3 years ago. It cost me £250 with 5 months MOT left. It has since passed each MOT - once I had to do some work on the breaks, cost 7p. Tyres still going strong, total mileage in that time just short of 8000 miles. A replacement tyre should I need one will cost me £10 - or £15 if I want it fitted. Insurance costs around £100 per year.£2 per week. Car tax costs £115 per year about £2.21 per year. I get 40+ miles per gallon. That vehicle is an absolute lifeline. Without it I would be restricted to the vagaries of public transport, that is not a good situation, it is almost non-existent in rural Scotland.
What value do you think that such a vehicle would have to me on the open market? What would it cost me to replace it if offered a job where I needed one?
Foolish to keep it?
You clearly have absolutely no knowledge of this type of situation at the lower end of the economic scale!
You had used someone who had been working and lost their job as an example so they may well have had credit.
By the way dont jinx yourself - sure as anything your car will need discs and pads next MOT now that you've said all that
Try it for a day, and then tell me it isn't :~(
Oh, I have had to 'stand' out doors in all sorts of weather and not had the luxury of knowing I can get out of the rain/cold/snow/wind by nipping into the nearest coffee shop or other warm place if the urge took me.
I am not knocking TBI sellers and I always say "No thanks" if they ask me to buy one and 99% of the sellers round here are polite and usually wish me a good day.
I just question your assertion that selling TBI is hard work. As Ash stated, being a "gravedigger is hard work", just as working on oil rigs is hard work, being a firefighter is hard work, being a coalman or miner is hard work, working on the power lines is hard work and so on.
Standing on a street corner for 3 or 4 hours selling over priced toilet sheets is NOT.
most = all on planet TBH [lol]You either mean all or you are admitting that you are wrong. Maybe some have worked here and lost their jobs but on the other hand there are indeed beggars coming in from other countries with no intention of finding a Job. They have no right to come here just to sell the big issue.
NickInTheNorth
23-Jan-08, 18:25
You either mean all or you are admitting that you are wrong. Maybe some have worked here and lost their jobs but on the other hand there are indeed beggars coming in from other countries with no intention of finding a Job. They have no right to come here just to sell the big issue.
No, I do not mean all, I mean most. That is why I said most and not all.
Try reading what I write and not what you want me t write :)
You either mean all or you are admitting that you are wrong. Maybe some have worked here and lost their jobs but on the other hand there are indeed beggars coming in from other countries with no intention of finding a Job. They have no right to come here just to sell the big issue.
Is that just your opinion or can you point me in the direction of where I can find the statute?
Nick in the North
I am fully aware that the thread started out discussing the appearance of Big Issue sellers but I was addressing points made later in the discussion.
I am also aware of the near necessity of personal transport in some areas of the country. However, Chrysler Voyagers and BMWs are neither cheap nor frugal so your argument does not apply (the use of a BMW I have personally witnessed).
Do not deign to tell me I have no concept of life at the lower end of the economic scale for that is in fact not the case. Without going into detail I have experienced life at the bottom and on the way there, the first thing I offloaded was a ten year old Austin 1800 as I could see it becoming a potential drain on what I suspected was going to be a minimal income.
Been there, done it, didn't like it and don't want to go back and I don't like the idea of anyone inferring I have no life experience.
Your commitment to frugality in respect of your mode of transport is commendable and you are probably not alone in your situation. However, you do not by any means possess a monopoly on hardship.
Having a bought and paid for car is I suspect a fairly rare occurrence taken over the UK population as a whole as I stated in my original post.
The ability to travel using public transport may be inconvenient and expensive to someone used to the door to door convenience of a car but is all that is available to some people.
Having lived in London, I never buy the big issue as you never know if the seller IS genuine.
The same with beggers on the street. Although their plight is sad I have seen too many nip round the corner and jump in a car or go into a public toilet and come out dressed in designer clothes. A man that used to live near me made begging his job and managed to own a big house and expensive car on the proceeds. He was caught and jailed for obtaining funds by deception and fraud but this has made me very cynical.
Is that just your opinion or can you point me in the direction of where I can find the statute?
If you are unemployed, you have the right to live in another EU country for a "reasonable period" of time in order to look for a job. In the absence of a definition of "reasonable period", most EU countries are now operating a six-month period, though you are advised to check the exact situation with the national authorities of the EU country in which you are looking for work. However, no matter how long you have to look for a job, you cannot be asked to leave the country if you can prove that you are genuinely looking for a job and that you have a real chance of finding one. For example, you still have interviews or tests to attend.Can't see anything about being allowed to come here and pretend to live on the streets selling the big issue to make ends meet.:eek: Romania and Bulgaria Became members of the European Union on 1 January 2007, which means – They are able to reside in the UK on an unrestricted basis for the first 3 months but can remain here as long as they like as a student, self employed or self-sufficient although not economically active. Nothing about big issue selling there either.
SandTiger
23-Jan-08, 21:31
Can't see anything about being allowed to come here and pretending to live on the streets selling the big issue to make ends meet.:eek:
So by your logic are you suggesting it is okay to come over and claim benefits but not do something constructive like sell the Big Issue?
Again, you do not have to be homeless to sell the Big Issue, risk of homelessness also applies.
So by your logic are you suggesting it is okay to come over and claim benefits but not do something constructive like sell the Big Issue?
Again, you do not have to be homeless to sell the Big Issue, risk of homelessness also applies.My logic is sound. While they are here they can still claim unemployment benefits from their own countries. Risk of homelessness means they should stay in their own country where they had a home. The big issue in this country was set up to help the homeless of this country, not foreign nationals.
SandTiger
23-Jan-08, 21:44
My logic is sound. While they are here they can still claim unemployment benefits from their own countries. Risk of homelessness means they should stay in their own country where they had a home. The big issue in this country was set up to help the homeless of this country, not foreign nationals.
It would be wonderful if you actually knew what you were talking about...
The International Network of Street Papers (INSP) is a global association of over 45 street papers in 27 countries around the world. Launched in 1994 by The Big Issue, INSP now has a combined monthly sales figure of over 2 million.
The network has been built on the back of the incredible success of street papers throughout the world. They operate mainly as small non-profit-making businesses, which give homeless vendors the opportunity to earn a living through their own efforts. The core philosophy of INSP is that all post-investment profits generated by the papers should be used to provide social support for homeless people. INSP provides a consultancy service for its partner papers, advises on the setting up of new street papers and runs an annual conference.
Members of INSP adhere to a street paper charter and follow the aims and objectives of the organisation.
INSP has links with the North American Street Newspapers Association (NASNA). For the directory of North American street papers, see NASNA's website (http://www.speakeasy.org.nasna/).
For more information on INSP, visit the web site at www.street-papers.com (http://www.street-papers.com/).
INSP members
Aluma, Malmo, Sweden
Asfalter, Salzburg, Austria
Asphalt, Hannover, Germany
Augustin, Vienna, Austria
BIG News, New York, USA
Biss, Munich, Germany
Boca de Rua, Porto Alegre, Brazil
Cais, Lisbon, Portugal
Diagonal, Buenos Aires, Argentina
Dromologia, Athens, Greece
Factor 5, Montevideo, Uruguay
Faktum, Goreborg, Sweden
Flaszter, Budapest, Hungary
Hecho enChile, Santiago, Chile
Hecho, Buenos Aries, Argentina
Hecho en Mendoza, Mandoza, Argentina
Hempels, Kiel, Germany
Hinz & Kunzt, Hamburg, Germany
Homeless Talk, Johannesburg, South Africa
Hus Forbi, Copenhagen, Denmark
Kupfermuckn, Linz, Austria
L'itineraire, Montreal, Canada
Mango News, Serrekunda, The Gambia
Das Megaphon, Graz, Austria
Milhistorias (y la tuya), Madrid, Spain
Nota Bene, Bratislava, Slovakia
Novy Prostor-Noborders, Prague, Czech Republic
Ocas, Sao Paulo, Rio de Janeiro, Brazil
Real Change, Seattle, USA
Situation Sthlm, Stockholm, Sweden
Spare Change News, Boston, USA
Spune, Iasi, Romania
Straat, Rotterdam, Netherlands
Straatnieuws, Utrecht, Netherlands
StreetWise, Chicago, USA
Surprise, Basel, Switzerland
TagesSatz, Gottringen, Germany
Terre di mezzo, Milan, Italy
The Big Issue Australia, Melbourne
The Big Issue Cape Town, South Africa
The Big Issue Cymru, Wales, UK
The Big Issue, London, UK
The Big Issue Namibia, Windhoek, Namibia
The Big Issue in the North, UK
The Big Issue in Scotland, UK
The Depths, St Petersburg, Russia
The Depths Siberia, Novosibirsk, Russia
The Way Home, Odessa, Ukraine
Trott-war, Stuttgart, Germany
Z Magazine, Amsterdam, Netherlands
It would be wonderful if you actually knew what you were talking about...
Why are you spouting all that at me, I know full well why the big issue was set up, what it was modeled on and by whom. The thing you miss is that the British big issue is for British homeless the same as the Australian, etc, etc, branch is for nationals of that particular country.[lol] Maybe they should think about opening a Romanian branch, oh they have, spune, Iasi, Romania. Let them stay there.:roll:
SandTiger
23-Jan-08, 22:01
Why are you spouting all that at me, I know full well why the big issue was set up, what it was modeled on and by whom. The thing you miss is that the British big issue is for British homeless the same as the australian, etc, etc, is for nationals of that particular country.[lol] Maybe they should think about opening a Romanian branch.
No it's not, that is the whole point, despite what *you* would like to see.
Scottish distribution manager Michael Luby said the company had a strict code of conduct that all sellers must adhere to or lose the right to sell the magazine.
He added: "We don't have a choice but to give them a badge. They meet the criteria for being homeless. We don't discriminate on grounds of colour, creed, religion or sex."
Guess you're wrong again TBH.
No it's not, that is the whole point, despite what *you* would like to see.
Scottish distribution manager Michael Luby said the company had a strict code of conduct that all sellers must adhere to or lose the right to sell the magazine.
He added: "We don't have a choice but to give them a badge. They meet the criteria for being homeless. We don't discriminate on grounds of colour, creed, religion or sex."
Guess you're wrong again TBH.Damn right they shouldn't discriminate against colour, creed, religion or sexual persuasion. The fact remains that the British big issue is for Britain's homeless nationals no matter what you wish to believe.
If a few thousand of us upped sticks and headed to eastern europe and drained their systems and "jumped" the queue with housing etc would their citizens like it? Not very likely!!!!!.
So why should we subsidise them when we have so many homeless of our own?
When they arrive here illegally they are housed in a centre and fed watered, etc and they still complain!! This is people who are "supposedly" freeing persecusion in their own country.
I am afraid it is a small minority of eastern europeans scamming the british public that makes people so Anti-immigration.
IF and thats a BIG IF we sort our own citizens out then maybe we can help them out, but until that time Charity begins at home. I dont mind my taxes helping our citizens but not immigrants that con the system.
Why not combine 2 threads on here, this one and national service thread, stick all the immigrants who con the system on national service, if they want to be British so much they would jump at the chance to do something FOR us:)
If a few thousand of us upped sticks and headed to eastern europe and drained their systems and "jumped" the queue with housing etc would their citizens like it? Not very likely!!!!!.
So why should we subsidise them when we have so many homeless of our own?
When they arrive here illegally they are housed in a centre and fed watered, etc and they still complain!! This is people who are "supposedly" freeing persecusion in their own country.
I am afraid it is a small minority of eastern europeans scamming the british public that makes people so Anti-immigration.
IF and thats a BIG IF we sort our own citizens out then maybe we can help them out, but until that time Charity begins at home. I dont mind my taxes helping our citizens but not immigrants that con the system.
Why not combine 2 threads on here, this one and national service thread, stick all the immigrants who con the system on national service, if they want to be British so much they would jump at the chance to do something FOR us:)You have got to have big cojones coming in here upsetting the fruity Commie Pinko Liberals in here.[lol]
SandTiger
23-Jan-08, 22:33
You have got to have big cojones voming in here upsetting the fruity Commie Pinko Liberals in here.[lol]
Where?
You were doing so well :roll:
Where?
You were doing so well :roll:That was a bit of fun Sandtiger, don't be so sensitive.;)
...I am afraid it is a small minority of eastern europeans scamming the british public that makes people so Anti-immigration. ...
No it’s the media and a minority of politicians trying to distract from other issues, like a weak economy, that are continuously scaremongering the public with stories about "eastern europeans scamming the british public" that make people so anti-immigration.
It's a good old method to distract from their own incompetency to tackle real issues.
SandTiger
23-Jan-08, 23:00
That was a bit of fun Sandtiger, don't be so sensitive.;)
Can I have my dummy back then? ;)
BTW, despite my best endeavours I failed to see one Big Issue seller, legitimate or otherwise, in Thurso today. My route consisted of Tescos, Co-op, Lidles and even the Auction Mart (a bit premature, I know) late this afternoon. Just thought it worthy of mention to reassure all those fearing a take over of our town by eastern European street paper vendors :-0
On the benefits thing, which is separate to this post, is it not the host state that supplies welfare support to the visiting person who finds themselves to be a claimant as opposed to the claimants country of origin?
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