View Full Version : Boot camps and National Service
Should our young criminals be sent to an American style boot-camp or perhaps a return of national service for our bad boys? Is community service too soft an option or is it a viable deterrent against re-offending? Watching the tv program Lads army and seeing some of those so-called hardmen being broken to the point of tears makes me wonder how our criminally minded youths would cope if unlike the tv program they had no get out clause and could not go home if it became too much for them!:lol:
Should they?...In two words...hell yes! x
Why restrict it to Bad Boys ? My age group most fit young men aged 18 had to do 2 years National Service, and all my pals that did it came back as disciplined, and mature young men, none that I knew ever complained about the experience.
I personally opted out off Natiional Service by joining the Merchant Navy, I had to promise to stay as a Merchant Seaman for 10 years.
bobandag16
19-Jan-08, 22:52
Should our young criminals be sent to an American style boot-camp or perhaps a return of national service for our bad boys? Is community service too soft an option or is it a viable deterrent against re-offending? Watching the tv program Lads army and seeing some of those so-called hardmen being broken to the point of tears makes me wonder how our criminally minded youths would cope if unlike the tv program they had no get out clause and could not go home if it became too much for them!:lol:
all boys are bad. except by the parents. they need an outlet.scouts. boys brigde. church cafes otherwise they look for excitement.
l llet
Should they?...In two words...hell yes! xThe thing I liked about the lads army program was that some did indeed gain a sense of worth and learnt the value of team-work and self-discipline.
Watching the self-esteem and pride grow in some of these guys was a joy to behold. Quite a lot opted to join the army and it would be great to see a follow up program on how those guys got on.
I agrre TBH and I also agree with golach, I think all youths would benefit from a few years in any of the services x
it 's ok fer thick kids but we smairties hev better thinks to do .
just listen tae yerselve 's , ye want till teach dead enders till kill , aye right , that 'll be good . :eyes
pile of doggy doo that makes ye feel better eh golach ? ye avoided it but ye want today 's kids till dae it, hippo crit !!!
Why restrict it to Bad Boys ? My age group most fit young men aged 18 had to do 2 years National Service, and all my pals that did it came back as disciplined, and mature young men, none that I knew ever complained about the experience.
I personally opted out off Natiional Service by joining the Merchant Navy, I had to promise to stay as a Merchant Seaman for 10 years.I am in no doubt that boys became disciplined young men during national service but as a means of testing the water how about we do away with the soft option and see what it makes of our young criminals first.
it 's ok fer thick kids but we smairties hev better thinks to do .
just listen tae yerselve 's , ye want till teach dead enders till kill , aye right , that 'll be good . :eyes
pile of doggy doo that makes ye feel better eh ?
actually its not about teaching them to kill, its about teaching them respect and also team work...sadly lacking nowadays IMO...even the clever ones can(sometimes) do with learning a bit of respect! x
it 's ok fer thick kids but we smairties hev better thinks to do .
just listen tae yerselve 's , ye want till teach dead enders till kill , aye right , that 'll be good . :eyes
pile of doggy doo that makes ye feel better eh golach ? ye avoided it but ye want today 's kids till dae it, hippo crit !!!Okay, take the tongue out of your cheek or the foot out of your mouth.[lol]
Who is talking about training them to kill, it's about giving them some self-esteem and pride in the fact that they can indeed become a productive member of society. Jeffrey Dahmer had an IQ of 150, highly intelligent but a serial killer none the less.
actually its not about teaching them to kill, its about teaching them respect and also team work...sadly lacking nowadays IMO...even the clever ones can(sometimes) do with learning a bit of respect! xaye mebbe one or two cud do wi respect but ye canna tar em all with e same brush .
i ken a few at was in e army , went in sane , came oot as arrogant physco paths .
Okay, take the tongue out of your cheek or the foot out of your mouth.[lol]
Who is talking about training them to kill, it's about giving them some self-esteem and pride in the fact that they can indeed become a productive member of society. Jeffrey Dahmer had an IQ of 150, highly intelligent but a serial killer none the less.ye talk aboot one or two odd balls , an ye think ye hev a case ? sheesh , an i thoght i was no so smairt .
I didnt mean to tar them all with the same brush,thats why I put (sometimes) in my post,IMO everybody could do with a few years NS and I would happily allow my kids to take part in it.Do the forces actually allow people with records to join up? x
i work wi lads fae all over germany, poland , russia , greece , all say national service was waste of years ,bein bullied by sados n physcho paths an no doin any thin use full .
dae ye lek paintin tanks pink ?
ye talk aboot one or two odd balls , an ye think ye hev a case ? sheesh , an i thoght i was no so smairt .Well obviously you are not as smart as you imagine if you think low intelligence is a prerequisite for committing a crime.
didna say that , stop putting words in ta ma mooth ,
looks lek i a lot smairter than ye if ye dinna hev a better argument than that . :roll:
how 's about teachin them a trade ?
aye mebbe one or two cud do wi respect but ye canna tar em all with e same brush .
i ken a few at was in e army , went in sane , came oot as arrogant physco paths .
Not every National Serviceman became front line soldiers, there are two other services the Navy and the Air Force, many were cooks, medics, engineers, teachers, and many many other skills, or as you put it Trades, Mechanics, Joiners, and drivers of all types of HGV's
Actually...it doesnt have to be time in the forces that "changes" people..I know somebody who "changed" into an arrogant physcopath and never joined any of the forces...you will be what you want to be no matter what,BUT sometimes disipline helps to get people back on the right path x
aye right enough , but it 's no fer all e us .
I think it is a good idea it teaches people self respect, self restraint and hopefully a trade by the end of their time.
the army disna want boot camps full o yowng laddies that disna want til be there , it 's a waste of money and there nae use til e army any hoo.
any army trainer will tell ye that , unless he 's a phsycho too . :lol:
northener
20-Jan-08, 00:25
i ken a few at was in e army , went in sane , came oot as arrogant physco paths .
How many?
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northener
20-Jan-08, 00:33
the army disna want boot camps full o yowng laddies that disna want til be there , it 's a waste of money and there nae use til e army any hoo.
:lol:
Very true, the last thing the Army wants is useless cannon-fodder. One volounteer is worth ten pressed men.....
But, some of these lads are merely lacking in direction for their aggression. We now have the only generations in British history where young men cannot simply join up into armed service to go travelling around the world looking for adventure. Instead of being paid to travel, they now have to pay to travel.
Result? Young men who have never been further than the end of their own estate. No Idea about life and expecting society to bail them out all the time. They've lost before they've even started.
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Aaldtimer
20-Jan-08, 03:58
Northerner..."We now have the only generations in British history where young men cannot simply join up into armed service to go travelling around the world looking for adventure."... Why can't they? The Army is desperate for new recruits(cannon fodder).:(
Should they?...In two words...hell yes! x
I agree Thumper, one of my brothers was dreading coming of age and being called up for his National Service. I was quite young at the time so i don't know if you just got sent to one of the services or if you were given a choice, anyhow, my brother was in the Navy and after his two years service was up, he signed himself in for another 9 years. He loved the Navy and everything about the life it gave him, he traveled all around the world as well. When his 9 years was up, it was with much sorrow he left the Navy because, by this time he was married and had children. My sister in law missed him so much and the children too, so he came back to civvie st. However i should point out that he started work right away as an engineer, as his years in the Navy served him well and prepared him for life. He now lives in Australia(has done for the last 40 years) I don't say it works for all but is'nt it worth a try at least.;)
The bad lads army program i love wathcing it it is prity funny seeing the corporals sorting out the young criminals that think there hard.
i think having a boot camp like that for young criminals is a good thing and is worth trying out and thats what the young criminals need is sorting out the hard way and a bit of disciplin will be a good thing for them and is a lot better than giving them a a £50 fine and a bit of community service or putting them behind bars letting them sit idle and not learning from it and probably
getting in with the wrong crowd at least a boot camp wont have them sitting about and it will give them disiplin and respect and if they hate going to boot camp then they wont want to go back and who knows there might be some young criminals that might have hidden talent to be a good soldier
Yes, i think national service should be re-introduced, for those who leave school and have yet to find direction in thier lives.
Being ex-military i found it to be very enjoyable, it would certainly re-introduce discipline and respect (for others and themselves), that sadly, some seem to have lost or never had.
And by the way, Bullying is severely frowned upon and not accepted in the forces.
Slightly off topic, what's the opinion on prisoners?
Should we follow the Americans, and utilise chain gangs? Or should that be a thread of it's own?
richman; "how 's about teachin them a trade ?"
umm.. they do, in the Royal Engineers
The American style boot camp instead of remand homes for naughty teenagers, it would sure sort out the good from the very bad. Also a first offender, lets say a motoring offence like a lad/lassie joy rideing, should go to a boot camp for a few weeks instead of a £50 fine and a smack on the wrist. They wouldnt do it again. jan x
Should they?...In two words...hell yes! x
I so agree....think a bit of strong discipline might help them on their way. Also the program about the finishing schools might take the lad out of our ladettes.
I so agree....think a bit of strong discipline might help them on their way. Also the program about the finishing schools might take the lad out of our ladettes.Good point and one which I never addressed. True that it is not only our young lads that need discipline.
northener
20-Jan-08, 17:35
Northerner..."We now have the only generations in British history where young men cannot simply join up into armed service to go travelling around the world looking for adventure."... Why can't they? The Army is desperate for new recruits(cannon fodder).:(
Because the military no longer takes just anyone off the street. Also, there are so many vacancies through a combination of apathy on the part of many young people and a lack of sensible investment on the part of the government.
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I can think of a few folk who could benefit from boot camp! Seeing kids on TV who do it, they usually come out more respectful and on the whole better for it, in their own words!
[quote=giggs;326518And by the way, Bullying is severely frowned upon and not accepted in the forces.
[/quote]
Tell that to the families of the 'Deepcut four' and countless others.
Buttercup
20-Jan-08, 20:48
Should our young criminals be sent to an American style boot-camp or perhaps a return of national service for our bad boys? Is community service too soft an option or is it a viable deterrent against re-offending? Watching the tv program Lads army and seeing some of those so-called hardmen being broken to the point of tears makes me wonder how our criminally minded youths would cope if unlike the tv program they had no get out clause and could not go home if it became too much for them!:lol:
They tried this a few years ago ~ the Boot Camp idea. All it seemed to do was make the usual troublemakers compete to see who would go there! When they came out they were the same "hard tickets" as before. Admittedly they now appear to have settled down/or moved away, but I would put that down to the fact that they've now got partners.
richman; "how 's about teachin them a trade ?"
umm.. they do, in the Royal Engineers
I got my trade in the army as a chef!!
The army has loads of trades and its trades are reckoned to be superior to civvy street trades as the training is intense and second to none,I should know I am better than Gordon bleeding Ramsay!! ;)
On a more serious note bring back nat service to sort out our hoody culture of lazy youth who think money is printed in Girnigoe street at e broo.
Highland Laddie
20-Jan-08, 21:12
Boot camp is to short a period to do any good.
National Service is the way to go, this country has gotten to soft for too long on the hooligans of today.
People mugged on the streets in daylight, pensioners afraid to leave their homes or harassed in their homes.
Unless this country gets a grip, it's going down the tubes in a hand basket.
Unless this country gets a grip, it's going down the tubes in a hand basket.
Fascinating mix of metaphors!;)
Unless this country gets a grip, it's going down the tubes in a hand basket.
I understood your metaphores HL
I understood your metaphores HL
That's metaphors..no 'e'
Whether you understood them or not ( and I did fine thank you!:))..they are still a 'mix' of metaphors!:confused
'Down the tubes'
'To hell in a handbasket'..sometimes 'handcart'
The government should step up to the plate and take the bull by the horns.;)
The government should step up to the plate and take the bull by the horns.;)
Nice one!:lol:
Must admit I would happily do some time in bad lads army if it meant that I could get closer to Corporal Murray :eek:....... one of those men you know you shouldnt like but still do! [lol] x
Must admit I would happily do some time in bad lads army if it meant that I could get closer to Corporal Murray :eek:....... one of those men you know you shouldnt like but still do! x
Down Thumps..it's just a uniform!
And oft times an excuse to play the hard man.;)
yup...love uniforms [lol] :o x
Must admit I would happily do some time in bad lads army if it meant that I could get closer to Corporal Murray :eek:....... one of those men you know you shouldnt like but still do! [lol] xThat guy has my respect, you know he could rip their heads off but he is also capable of putting an arm around their shoulders.
That guy has my respect, you know he could rip their heads off but he is also capable of putting an arm around their shoulders.
exactly TBH..he is firm but fair....prob why he is so yummy :lol: x
yup...love uniforms [lol] :o x
I know you also love fair play and justice..not simply the 'dress ups'.
yup you have a point there hun,but I do think most peeps would benefit to a stint in the forces...I even joined up myself at 17..not that I made it tho :roll: x
yup you have a point there hun,but I do think most peeps would benefit to a stint in the forces...I even joined up myself at 17..not that I made it tho :roll: x
Much as I adore you I have to disagree,
Drafting everyone into the forces aged 17 is an all encompassing theorum that allows nought in terms of individual responsibility and drive.
Hun thats what lifes about...agree to disagree and move on,we are both adult enough to do that with our friendship intact..thankfully! xx
Hun thats what lifes about...agree to disagree and move on,we are both adult enough to do that with our friendship intact..thankfully! xx
Yupski![lol]
love ya...you argumentative so an so!;)
Highland Laddie
21-Jan-08, 00:06
Much as I adore you I have to disagree,
Drafting everyone into the forces aged 17 is an all encompassing theorum that allows nought in terms of individual responsibility and drive.
Sorry Karia,
I didn't mean draft all 17 year olds, i meant all the young trouble makers.
Sorry Karia,
I didn't mean draft all 17 year olds, i meant all the young trouble makers.
Hi Highland Laddie,
Appreciate your point.....but whose to judge these things?
Congratulations Karia, once again, you have Hi-Jacked a serious thread and have trivioulised it, is this your ambition in life?
My O H was a submariner for 23 years in The Royal Navy he left a mere boy and came back a young man and went on to serve in the cold war patrolling our shores etc etc
But as for the young offenders and boot camp I am not sure that is the answer some of them do it as a joke others to play the part in a tv reality programme others on a certain morning J K show, does it actually work yes in some cases it does or appears to who knows .
As for National Service to be reintroduced I dont have a son but would dislike it to become norm again for anyones child
I haven't hi-jacked anything mate!
just expressed a couple of opinions..that's what happens here!
Well done for extending the word 'trivioulised' into new dimensions:eek::confused
Language is an ever evolving thing!
Sorry karia but I have to agree with golach in this instance, which is a quite rare occurance.
I appreciate your posts on some other threads which have been informative and often interesting.
I have hummed and hawed for almost half an hour in case golach mustered half an argument for me to respond to...
..off to bed now!
night folks.;)
I have hummed and hawed for almost half an hour in case golach mustered half an argument for me to respond to...
..off to bed now!
night folks.;)
Why should I argue with you, I have my opinion, you have yours, and it is obvious we shall never agree, and I loved your quick reaction to my deliberate typo [lol]
marylund2323
21-Jan-08, 02:15
come on do you need to argue....anyways boot camp is not the best idea since not all trouble makers stay as trouble makers. People should be given the opportunity to sort themselves out rather than being forced into something like a boot camp.
I see Bill Leckie from the sun, "newspaper", must read the C.org boards as he pinched the essence of my thread for his daily column. All those plagiarist Journalists know where to get the best stories from.[lol]
Come oot ya lurker.:lol:
George Brims
25-Jan-08, 00:57
I remember a bobby from Wick talking to my dad one day about certain individuals who had been away for a spell after being recruited into the army, and come back home after being kicked out. His opinion was that all the army training had given us was bigger stronger thugs. He said he would rather see them all put in a bus and driven off the South Head!
I also recall about the same era, Willie Whitelaw, who was then Home Secretary, outlining a plan for boot camps at the Tory party conference. To thunderous applause and approving harrumphs, he stated that life in the camps would be "carried on at a brisk pace". One look at that fat old geezer and you wondered if he had ever done anything at a brisk pace in his life.
I remember a bobby from Wick talking to my dad one day about certain individuals who had been away for a spell after being recruited into the army, and come back home after being kicked out. His opinion was that all the army training had given us was bigger stronger thugs. He said he would rather see them all put in a bus and driven off the South Head!
Some would say, "why waste a good bus".?:D
George Brims
25-Jan-08, 01:42
Well if you want a job done right you have to select the right tools. [lol]
just make sure it was a Rapsons bus
One look at that fat old geezer and you wondered if he had ever done anything at a brisk pace in his life.Probably not. But then again what else can you expect of an ex-Scots Guardsman?
I wonder how many other people won the Military Cross by sitting on their big fat backsides doing nothing in Normandy in WW11? After all, nothing much happened there, did it?
Quite agree with you Jaws, ref George Brim's comment:"One look at that fat old geezer [Willie Whitelaw] and you wondered if he had ever done anything at a brisk pace in his life" - we all get old and (sometimes) fat George!
Willie Whitelaw was a relatively 'Local lad' born in Nairn by the way..
"He commanded Churchill tanks in Normandy during WWII and in the Battle of Caumont (late July 1944) his was the first Allied unit to encounter German Jagdpanther tank destroyers, being attacked by three out of the twelve of these vehicles which were in Normandy. The battalion second-in-command was killed when his tank was hit in front of Whitelaw's eyes, and Whitelaw succeeded to this position, holding it - with the rank of Major - throughout the advance through Holland into Germany and until the end of the war. He was awarded the Military Cross - one of the highest awards for valour -for his actions at Caumont;"(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_Whitelaw (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_Whitelaw) )
Like it was in National Service, nice to see we might - once again - (*1) see our off-duty troops in uniform on the streets, when, back in the 70's because of the IRA, soldiers were easy targets, and the practice was discontinued.
Remember back then of squaddies hitch-hiking in uniform, getting lifts from the public, of course you still have this; "The review came after a spate of stories signalling that the public lacks support for the forces, including a woman who complained when disabled veterans were using public swimming pools as part of their rehabilitation and were told to leave."
(*1) http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/7211979.stm (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/7211979.stm)
northener
27-Jan-08, 20:48
Remember back then of squaddies hitch-hiking in uniform, getting lifts from the public, of course you still have this; "The review came after a spate of stories signalling that the public lacks support for the forces, including a woman who complained when disabled veterans were using public swimming pools as part of their rehabilitation and were told to leave."
(*1) http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/7211979.stm (http://forum.caithness.org/go.php?url=http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/7211979.stm)
Don't get me started on this one[evil]
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