The Palestine question.

[TBH]

Okay folks, do you believe the supposedly specious claim of most of the worlds press and the U.N that Israel is illegally occupying Palestinian lands or do you go with the Israeli claims they have every right to them and to ignore the 4th geneva convention or any U.N resolutions albeit with the odd veto or two from the U.S?

[theone]

Okay folks, do you believe the supposedly specious claim of most of the worlds press and the U.N that Israel is illegally occupying Palestinian lands or do you go with the Israeli claims they have every right to them and to ignore the 4th geneva convention or any U.N resolutions albeit with the odd veto or two from the U.S?

Pull the pin, throw in the grenade, then stand well back!

I'll enjoy watching this thread.

[TBH]

Pull the pin, throw in the grenade, then stand well back!

I'll enjoy watching this thread.Anyone for a Molotov cocktail?;)

[Yoda the flump]

Certainly in the present political climate Isreal should not be in the occupied territories, but when they first occupied them things were different.

Since the mid seventies Isreal has gradually made peace with its neighbours and so they are unlikely to be invaded again in the near future.

In 1967 things were very different.

Problem is Jeruselem, politically this is going to be a very difficult situation on all sides.

[DeHaviLand]

I go along with the illegal occupation viewpoint. If the Jewish people needed a homeland that badly, you'd think they'd have taken more care of it in the first place.

[Yoda the flump]

I go along with the illegal occupation viewpoint. If the Jewish people needed a homeland that badly, you'd think they'd have taken more care of it in the first place.

Isreal was set up after WW2 by the UN, not unilaterally by the jews.

I guess they would say that they were forcibly dispersed from their 'homeland' in the first place.

[TBH]

Could you expand on that DeHaviland?

[TBH]

Isreal was set up after WW2 by the UN, not unilaterally by the jews.

I guess they would say that they were forcibly dispersed from their 'homeland' in the first place.I thought they fought a war of independence in 1967?

[Yoda the flump]

I thought they fought a war of independence in 1967?

Absolutely not!

Israel was set up a UN mandate in 1947. This divided Palestine into a jewish sector and a muslim sector.

When independence was declared in 1948 the jewish state was attacked on all sides by its arab neighbours, but managed to fight them off and expand its boarders slightly (the original partition plan did not give boarders that were easy to defend).

Since then the major conflicts have been the Suez Crisis in 1956 and the Six day war of 1967 where Israel were the aggressors and then the Yom Kippur war in 1973 which Isreal was again attacked on all sides.

Israel has won all of these conflicts. there have been various boarder disputes and the infamous Lebaneon invasion of the 1980's but things have certainly quietened down.

[TBH]

Absolutely not!

Israel was set up a UN mandate in 1947. This divided Palestine into a jewish sector and a muslim sector.

When independence was declared in 1948 the jewish state was attacked on all sides by its arab neighbours, but managed to fight them off and expand its boarders slightly (the original partition plan did not give boarders that were easy to defend).

Since then the major conflicts have been the Suez Crisis in 1956 and the Six day war of 1967 where Israel were the aggressors and then the Yom Kippur war in 1973 which Isreal was again attacked on all sides.

Israel has won all of these conflicts. there have been various boarder disputes and the infamous Lebaneon invasion of the 1980's but things have certainly quietened down.I thought the land captured in the six day war was the reason israel was confident in it's position that their occupation was not illegal?

[DeHaviLand]

Could you expand on that DeHaviland?

The UN resolution 181, proposed that Palestine be partitioned on July 1st 1948. Following Britains declaration of withdrawal from Palestine, effective on May 15th 1948, Zionists unilaterally declared the formation of Israel effective from 14th May 1948.

Effectively UN Resolution 181 never came into force. Therefore Israels occupation of Palestinian land is illegal.

[TBH]

The UN resolution 181, proposed that Palestine be partitioned on July 1st 1948. Following Britains declaration of withdrawal from Palestine, effective on May 15th 1948, Zionists unilaterally declared the formation of Israel effective from 14th May 1948.

Effectively UN Resolution 181 never came into force. Therefore Israels occupation of Palestinian land is illegal.Is Zionist becoming a dirty word? I totally agree with you that the war is illegal. The thing that gets me is that the Palestinian people are living in little more than a concentration camp yet they are the ones that are being labelled as terrorists.

[Lolabelle]

Zechariah 12: 2 & 3
“Behold, I will make Jerusalem a cup of trembling unto all the people round about, when they shall be in the siege both against Judah and Jerusalem.
And in that day will I make Jerusalem a burdensome stone for all people, all that burden themselves with it shall be cut in pieces, though all the people of the earth be gathered together against it.”

[TBH]

Zechariah 12: 2 & 3
“Behold, I will make Jerusalem a cup of trembling unto all the people round about, when they shall be in the siege both against Judah and Jerusalem.
And in that day will I make Jerusalem a burdensome stone for all people, all that burden themselves with it shall be cut in pieces, though all the people of the earth be gathered together against it.”Is it really a holy war though lolabelle?

[DeHaviLand]

Is Zionist becoming a dirty word? I totally agree with you that the war is illegal. The thing that gets me is that the Palestinian people are living in little more than a concentration camp yet they are the ones that are being labelled as terrorists.

One mans freedom fighter is another mans terrorist. Like all disputes, both sides have valid points. Personally, I believe that Israel should return the land that it illegally occupied in 1949, and recognise the state of Palestine. I believe that this is the minimum requirement for peace in the region.

[Lolabelle]

Is it really a holy war though lolabelle?

I guess in way or another they all are, but it was a quote I remembered from the Bible, and Jerusalem has certainly always been a cup of trembling.

[Yoda the flump]

One mans freedom fighter is another mans terrorist. Like all disputes, both sides have valid points. Personally, I believe that Israel should return the land that it illegally occupied in 1949, and recognise the state of Palestine. I believe that this is the minimum requirement for peace in the region.

Agreed, the political climate has changed significantly since then and it is unlikely that Israel is going to be attacked again.

Jerusalem however in not going to be given up by Israel and as the city is SO important to both sides there is always going to be some conflict.

[TBH]

One mans freedom fighter is another mans terrorist. Like all disputes, both sides have valid points. Personally, I believe that Israel should return the land that it illegally occupied in 1949, and recognise the state of Palestine. I believe that this is the minimum requirement for peace in the region.George Bush Jnr has been quoted as saying Israel should cease their occupation of Palestinian territories but he doesn't say they should give up occupied territories rather that they should compensate the Palestinians.

[Yoda the flump]

Thankfully we will not have to put up with Mr Bush jnr for much longer. Roll on November and the US elections.

[Through]

If some of the nations close to Israel and farther away, stop encouraging terrorist activities against Israel; if the indiscriminate rocket attacks stop and mental cases stop strapping explosives around their bodies and wandering into areas that they know will contain high numbers of people that could include friends of their own, young people, old people, different races, different religions, etc. then there will be no need for Israel to have such an aggressive defence policy and at that point it will be fair for all nations to tell Israel what they think is fair.

Before that happens, who is anyone to tell Israel how to defend its population of six million people?

[TBH]

Even with the removal of Bush Jnr, will it make any difference to the gradual ethnic cleansing being carried out by the israelis?

[Yoda the flump]

Even with the removal of Bush Jnr, will it make any difference to the gradual ethnic cleansing being carried out by the israelis?

The only country that has ANY sort of control over Israel is the US. If the next president follows a different course to Bush then possibly.

[Yoda the flump]

If some of the nations close to Israel and farther away, stop encouraging terrorist activities against Israel; if the indiscriminate rocket attacks stop and mental cases stop strapping explosives around their bodies and wandering into areas that they know will contain high numbers of people that could include friends of their own, young people, old people, different races, different religions, etc. then there will be no need for Israel to have such an aggressive defence policy and at that point it will be fair for all nations to tell Israel what they think is fair.

Before that happens, who is anyone to tell Israel how to defend its population of six million people?

That is only one side of the story. Its not that black and white is it though.

If you saw your child killed by a Merkava how would you react? Possibly these are the acts of desperate people with no other way of fighting back.

[Through]

Yoda, this topic seemed to start one sidedly, with Israel painted as the baddie. Killing is evil whether carried out by one side or the other side. My point is simply that if there is no threat to Israel, then there is no need for Israel to defend itself. The high level of aggression in Israel's defence is due to the nature of the threat. Remove the threat and then we can speak to Israel about borders and such.

[gillian17]

Personally, and I do not have any experience in this area, I think Israel is a good entity. It gives something for all the illerate, pagan arabs something to direct their impotency against.
Israel, like Britain in 1940 and 1973, only has to lose once and it ceases to exist.
Let us assume that Israel loses, what would happen then.
Answer, a bloodbath between all the Shias Sunnites Ba'athists, Jews, Russians, Americans, British and French.
There is only one certain outcome. The French would lose again, again and again.
I accept not everyone will agree with this but convince me otherwise.
PS I thought Suez 1956 was Britain, USA and Egypt. OK I know Israel was involved but I thought that was rather secondary. Again I kow tow to someone with better knowledge.

[_Ju_]

The palestines have lost their homes, their communities and families with Isreali enroachment. They have nothing else to loose but their lives, that they feel has no quality/value without what they have lost. So they fight back with the only thing they have left. It doesn't make it right, but how would you feel with no hope and an enourmous hatred in you?

My opinion: there is no solution. As long as there are palastinians, they will feel desenfranchised. As long as there are Israeli's they will feel entitled. Neither will give up. Both believe God is on their side. There are no winners nor any type of resolution is possible.

[gillian17]

Palestinians are brought up to believe that there is an after life and all the garbage about 76 virgins waiting for them if they become martyrs.
If an infidel ie you or me then its Insh'Allah If one of theirs dies its Western or Israeli brutality.
Same in Pakistan A Westerner dies Insh'Allah When they have an earthquake no-one says Insh'Allah its Red Crescent help me and my seventeen children and why will you not give us tents and AK47's?

[karia]

Personally, and I do not have any experience in this area, I think Israel is a good entity. It gives something for all the illerate, pagan arabs something to direct their impotency against.
Israel, like Britain in 1940 and 1973, only has to lose once and it ceases to exist.

Hi gillian,

Could you elaborate on your reference re 1973?:confused

Can I assume that your reference to 'illerate, pagan' arabs suggests that you might have a somewhat biased view.

Eagerly awaiting your reply!

[_Ju_]

Palestinians are brought up to believe that there is an after life and all the garbage about 76 virgins waiting for them if they become martyrs.
If an infidel ie you or me then its Insh'Allah If one of theirs dies its Western or Israeli brutality.
Same in Pakistan A Westerner dies Insh'Allah When they have an earthquake no-one says Insh'Allah its Red Crescent help me and my seventeen children and why will you not give us tents and AK47's?

Please look the word Insha'Allah up.

[robynaus]

Can I suggest "Queen of the Desert" the biography of Gertrude Bell for a general background to the "Middle East" question. If not in your library ask them to get it or go to Newcastle Uni (UK) as they hold all her papers. Makes facinating reading. And remember she was writing before 1926. Mostly about Iraq but also a good overview of the whole area.

www.gerty.ncl.ac.uk


And do remember The UN was bowing to the Allies collective guilt abuot what happened to the Jewish people in WW2 and the Arabs went along with it by scareing the Palestinian people with what would happen when the Jews arrived. So everybody get a bit of the blame and it's now to go back and start over so they will have to find a way to live with each other.

Perhaps we are spoilt here in Aus by being so far away, but I remember my schoolfriends mother had a number tattooed on her arm and that memory has never left me. I know Iraqi people who fled to make a new life for their families and Sudanese and German and Irish.

regards robyn

[bekisman]

Hope you don't mind gillian17, I think it refers to The Arab-Israeli War of that year? This link is a very good account;
(don't know what happened in Britain that year though - I know we joined the EU)
http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/library/report/1989/PSJ.htm (http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/library/report/1989/PSJ.htm)

[Yoda the flump]

Personally, and I do not have any experience in this area, I think Israel is a good entity. It gives something for all the illerate, pagan arabs something to direct their impotency against.
Israel, like Britain in 1940 and 1973, only has to lose once and it ceases to exist.
Let us assume that Israel loses, what would happen then.
Answer, a bloodbath between all the Shias Sunnites Ba'athists, Jews, Russians, Americans, British and French.
There is only one certain outcome. The French would lose again, again and again.
I accept not everyone will agree with this but convince me otherwise.
PS I thought Suez 1956 was Britain, USA and Egypt. OK I know Israel was involved but I thought that was rather secondary. Again I kow tow to someone with better knowledge.

1973 - War of Yom Kippur, you can look that up if you want.

1956 Suez crisis the UK and France persuaded Israel to do most of their dirty work for them and Israel attacked Egypt and others. only stopped when the US stepped in and told them to behave. Nasser had nationalised the Suez canal.

In the present political environment who is going to attack Israel? Are they going to be involved in wars like they were historically? No, as they are now at 'peace' with there neighbours.

Do they need to occupy the West Bank or the Gaza Strip? The presence of the IDF causes enough trouble as it is, same as the West in Iraq. They should withdraw and let the Palestinians rule themselves.

[TBH]

The west bank and the gaza strip are under a brutal military occupation. The palestinians have no economy to speak of, (thousands of acres of orchards and crops have been bulldozed), and they suffer extremely high levels of unemployment. Life is miserable with hundreds of checkpoints everywhere, drives that take minutes often take hours and people are not allowed to leave their homes during curfew. Children are then unable to attend school and families cannot access medical attention or even visit relatives. It is like one big concentration camp, it's a disgrace and it needs to end.

[karia]

TBH,

I could not agree more!

[JAWS]

It could be that the reason for Israel’s not being threatened by surrounding Countries is that it’s current Borders mean that they are far easier to defend than previously making Israel a far less tempting target for the surrounding Countries than originally.

Yoda the flump, I notice you “forgot” to mention either the Six Day War in 1967 or the initial War which occurred as soon as the State of Israel was created in 1947/8 by the surrounding Countries who stated their intent to “drive the Israelis into the sea”.

Neither do you mention that the Palestinians who were originally welcomed and settled in Jordan made, with Syrian encouragement and promised backing, a concerted attempt in 1970 to start a Civil War there in an attempt to take over control of that Country and had to be driven out by the Jordanians to prevent it happening.

The Palestinians then moved from there into Southern Lebanon, a Country which was at that time, despite being made up of large conflicting sects of Islam mixed with a large percentage of Maronite Christians, a long-standing peaceful Country and a great tourist destination.
Shortly after the arrival of the Palestinians, again backed by the Syrians, that Country was suddenly embroiled in an extremely vicious Civil War when the Palestinians tried to take control there also. That War destroyed much of the Country and is still having violent repercussions for the Lebanese to this day with, according to the UN, Syrian involvement.

All that is without going into America’s support for Israel. If you add to that a fact, conveniently totally ignored by those who hold certain views, that throughout the Cold War Russia not only supported but armed and actively encouraged it’s client Arab States to engage in Wars and to back aggression against Israel and Terrorist activities elsewhere using the Middle East as an excuse.

Before anybody points any fingers claiming there is only one side to blame for the mess that is currently the Middle East it pays to read they whole story from it’s beginnings and also it’s background prior to the creating of the State of Israel.

And if anybody asks what it has to do with us, well we have been up to our grubby little necks in it for well over 200 years as have the French and various other European Countries.

[Boozeburglar]

It gives something for all the illerate, pagan arabs something to direct their impotency against.

Blind hatred is possibly detrimental to one's facility with the English language.

Perhaps those 'illerate' God bothering Brits should stop interfering in the Middle East.

[Joefitz]

My step-father was a Palectine Policeman after the second world war, and was enthusiastically engaged in trying to kill Menachim Begin and Golda Meir, to name but two of the wanted terrorists of that era....makes you think, Huh??

[skinnydog]

For 60 years the most respected and diplomatic brains on the planet have been trying to sort this one out with no success.
The UN missed a trick in not getting the Caithness lap top mediation service on board.

[Yoda the flump]

Yoda the flump, I notice you “forgot” to mention either the Six Day War in 1967 or the initial War which occurred as soon as the State of Israel was created in 1947/8 by the surrounding Countries who stated their intent to “drive the Israelis into the sea”.

I was directly replying to gillian17 , who only mentioned 1956 and 1973.

Lets face it the 1967 war was a disaster for the arab side. Israel attacked its neighbours (not without reason) and took massive amounts of territory from them. Not called then six day war for nothing!

Mentioned the earlier war in another post.

As for your other points, I agree that Israel has not had an easy existence and has been under attack in one form or another constantly, but as in Northern Ireland both sides have to realise that they have to compromise and agree a political agreement and stick to it.


And if anybody asks what it has to do with us, well we have been up to our grubby little necks in it for well over 200 years as have the French and various other European Countries.

As always!

[gillian17]

I am back darlings after being banned for a while. Give me an hour to catch up on things then ask me anything you like, xx

[hotrod4]

The Palestinians will NEVER stop attacking Israel. They have a blind hatred for their border buddies.Its the same form of terrorism that their brethren try to inflict on the western world. They can play a good "persecuted people" when they want to, but lets not forget that they have been firing Rockets into israel for a long time. What do you expect them to do? Roll over like a good doggie? Dont think so!

Maybe if they ceased their hatred and terrorism against Israel ,then I may have a wee bit of Sympathy for them, but at the mo, no chance. They've made their bed they can lie in it.

[gillian17]

I wonder what would have happened if Moses had turned right instead of left and founded the Promised Land over the biggest oil field ever discovered. xx

[The Pepsi Challenge]

Maybe if they ceased their hatred and terrorism against Israel ,then I may have a wee bit of Sympathy for them, but at the mo, no chance. They've made their bed they can lie in it.

You'll no' be contributing to this then?


---

After an 18 month blockade of Gaza and three weeks of heavy shelling the humanitarian crisis in Gaza is now completely overwhelming.

•Donate online to the DEC's Gaza Crisis now

Thousands of people are struggling to survive with many having lost their homes and most down to their last supplies of food and only limited amounts of fresh drinking water.

•Just £25 can buy warm blankets for 8 children

•Just £50 can provide a Food parcel for a family for one month

•Electricity - supplies to Gaza are erratic at best with 75% of the area cut off completely. There is a significant public health risk arising out of the almost collapse of Gaza’s water and sewage system, the running of which is dependent on electricity.

•Water - Around 500,000 people are without running water with 37% of Gaza’s water wells not working effectively and fuel reserves depleted due to restrictions on access and damage to pipes.

•At least 412 Children have been killed and 1,855 injured

•60% of the population is living in poverty

•1.1 million people are dependent upon aid to survive.

•Health - The capacity of the health system has been significantly reduced due to the damage of at least 21 clinics.

Ten primary health care clinics are functioning as emergency clinics and hospitals and intensive care units continue to treat the mass casualties.


Please please please give what you can - please help them.

http://www.dec.org.uk

pass to all friends and family.

----------

Ahmad Hassaneen, 7 years old

This is Ahmad Hassaneen, from Shayjaiee in East Gaza, near to the border. He was shot in the head about 9.45am today while playing with other children. Dr Fawzi Nabusi holds the x-ray showing the bullet in his brain. He is currently in a coma in Al Shifa hospital. Read the rest of this post »

http://talestotell.wordpress.com/


-------

Tony Benn at his best:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/today/hi/today/newsid_7848000/7848670.stm

[Oddquine]

Isn't the first law of madness doing the same thing over and over again but yet expecting a different result each time.

If so, then both Israel and Hamas are mad.

[gillian17]

Have any of you read the Geneva Convention?
Obviously not.
I have.
You do not site military establishments anywhere near hospitals, residential areas or commercial areas.
I cannot comment whether Israel or the Palestinians are in the right but my money is on Israel.

[attielattie]

An interesting point - I lived in the Middle East for a number of years and had a lot of Arab friends. I asked one of them why the rich Arab nations did nothing to help the Palestinians. I had always assumed that it was a ploy to irritate Israel.
He answered with the words, "They are a dirty race". He went on to explain that, in the opinion of most Gulf Arabs, the Palestinians were a mongrel breed. Charming!

[wifie]

Yes attielattie - most of these "wars" are cultural things and just because other nations step in to "save" these people doesn't mean they are right!

[gillian17]

Attielattie (have I spelt that right?) I cannot comment because I have never been to the Middle East but there are too many people who make too much money from war. The IRA did it for years. If they actually sat down and tried to work it out its not hard. Sorry I forgot, who is the UN ambassador for the Middle East Oh its Anthony Blair Funny when it kicks off he disappears. Just coincidence.

[hotrod4]

You'll no' be contributing to this then?


---

After an 18 month blockade of Gaza and three weeks of heavy shelling the humanitarian crisis in Gaza is now completely overwhelming.

•Donate online to the DEC's Gaza Crisis now

Thousands of people are struggling to survive with many having lost their homes and most down to their last supplies of food and only limited amounts of fresh drinking water.

•Just £25 can buy warm blankets for 8 children

•Just £50 can provide a Food parcel for a family for one month

•Electricity - supplies to Gaza are erratic at best with 75% of the area cut off completely. There is a significant public health risk arising out of the almost collapse of Gaza’s water and sewage system, the running of which is dependent on electricity.

•Water - Around 500,000 people are without running water with 37% of Gaza’s water wells not working effectively and fuel reserves depleted due to restrictions on access and damage to pipes.

•At least 412 Children have been killed and 1,855 injured

•60% of the population is living in poverty

•1.1 million people are dependent upon aid to survive.

•Health - The capacity of the health system has been significantly reduced due to the damage of at least 21 clinics.

Ten primary health care clinics are functioning as emergency clinics and hospitals and intensive care units continue to treat the mass casualties.


Please please please give what you can - please help them.

http://www.dec.org.uk

pass to all friends and family.

----------

Ahmad Hassaneen, 7 years old

This is Ahmad Hassaneen, from Shayjaiee in East Gaza, near to the border. He was shot in the head about 9.45am today while playing with other children. Dr Fawzi Nabusi holds the x-ray showing the bullet in his brain. He is currently in a coma in Al Shifa hospital. Read the rest of this post »

http://talestotell.wordpress.com/


-------

Tony Benn at his best:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/today/hi/today/newsid_7848000/7848670.stm

Notice you didnt qoute a price for a Limited Edition Hamas Rocket there!!![lol]

[Bazeye]

If the Jewish people needed a homeland that badly

Why dont they just come to the UK, everybody else does.

[attielattie]

This is from an article by Arab-American journalist Joseph Farah - makes interesting reading - the website I found it on is www.worldnetdaily.com (http://www.worldnetdaily.com).

What can Israel do to achieve peace with its Middle East neighbors?
I'm often asked that question by radio and TV interviewers. I won't tell you there are any easy answers – especially after so many strategic blunders by Israeli political leaders.
But there is a starting point. If I were prime minister of Israel, I would begin by explaining to the country's enemies and friends alike – all over the world – that practically everything they have heard about the conflict between Arabs and Israelis is wrong.
First, the Jews in Israel took no one's land.
When Mark Twain visited the Holy Land in the 19th century, he was greatly disappointed. He didn't see any people. He referred to it as a vast wasteland. The land we now know as Israel was practically deserted.
This is very important to understand. Because one of the biggest demands of so-called Arab "Palestinians" today is the "right of return." They contend that millions and millions of Arabs must be permitted to settle in Israel with full voting rights. Most of these people have never set foot in Israel before. Many of their parents never set foot in Israel before. A few had lived in the area in 1948 or 1967 and fled at the instructions of Arab invaders who pledged to "liberate" the land and annihilate the Jews.
But it is important to understand these are not refugees in the usual sense of the word. Instead, they are political pawns, exploited by Arab leaders who use the refugee issue to empower and enrich themselves.
It is a fraud, however, to say that these Arab Palestinians had lived in the region "from time immemorial," as the propagandists say. When "Palestine" was under the control of Muslims – right up through World War I – Arabs and Muslims showed little interest in the land, including Jerusalem.
A travel guide to Palestine and Syria, published in 1906 by Karl Baedeker, illustrates the fact that, even when the Islamic Ottoman Empire ruled the region, the Muslim population in Jerusalem was minimal. The book estimates the total population of the city at 60,000, of whom 7,000 were Muslims, 13,000 were Christians and 40,000 were Jews.
"The number of Jews has greatly risen in the last few decades, in spite of the fact that they are forbidden to immigrate or to possess landed property," the book states.
Even though the Jews were persecuted, still they came to Jerusalem and represented the overwhelming majority of the population as early as 1906. And even though Muslims today claim Jerusalem as the third holiest site in Islam, when the city was under Islamic rule, they had little interest in it.
As the Jews came, drained the swamps and made the deserts bloom, something interesting began to happen. Arabs followed. I don't blame them. They had good reason to come. They came for jobs. They came for prosperity. They came for freedom. And they came in large numbers.
Winston Churchill observed in 1939: "So far from being persecuted, the Arabs have crowded into the country and multiplied till their population has increased more than even all world Jewry could lift up the Jewish population."
This is the modern real history of the Arab-Israeli conflict. At no time did the Jews uproot Arab families from their homes. When there were title deeds to be purchased, they bought them at inflated prices. When there were not, they worked the land so they could have a place to live without the persecution they faced throughout the world.
It's a great big lie that the Israelis displaced anyone – one of a series of lies and myths that have the world on the verge of committing yet another great injustice to the Jews.


There is more but I will leave it at that for now.

[Melancholy Man]

The UN resolution 181, proposed that Palestine be partitioned on July 1st 1948. Following Britains declaration of withdrawal from Palestine, effective on May 15th 1948, Zionists unilaterally declared the formation of Israel effective from 14th May 1948.

Effectively UN Resolution 181 never came into force. Therefore Israels occupation of Palestinian land is illegal.

I suppose that Dehaviland is coming out with this patently sophistic twaddle is a good thing as it shows how desperate the persistent critics of Israel are. There was no independent state called Palestine either, and the Arab League had intended to ignore 181 as well and divvy up the territories set aside for both a Jewish and Arab state.

They made a good fist of it, it has to be said, with Egypt snatching Gaza and Jordan (which already made up a majority of the original Mandate area) getting Judea and Samaria (a.k.a. the West Bank); and held them until another attempt to efface Israel.

This is what happens in war. Launch one and loose, one is in no position to set the terms of any negotiations.

[Melancholy Man]

I should add that I object, as ever, to the description of Arabs as "pagans" or mention of "76 virgins" (besides, it's 72 items which may be virgins or may be slices of grapefruit).

This is not to say that the Palestinian Arabs have been blighted by a craven and corrupt and monomaniacally anti-Israel leadership which has squandered repeated opportunities for an equitable settlement since at least 1937, and that viscerally antisemitic jihadi ideology has come to dominate it over recent decades: to the extent that "Palestinian" is thought synonymous with Muslim, and not Christian (who were just as keenly involved in earlier secular violent insurrection).

[davie]

Now Melancholy Man you have me beat - I can not keep going back to Google to find out the meaning of your prose.
Can I assume that like me you think the Palestinian Arabs are useless, lazy, dirty specimens who seem to think its ok to fire rockets at Israel as and when they feel like it and then come bleating to the rest of the World when the Israelis retaliate ?