View Full Version : Local?
Tugmistress
07-Jan-08, 21:28
ok i don't want to hijack the thread about the antiques roadshow, but to carry on a little bit here where it went off on a tangent to hopefully bring that one back on track :)
i am not a local by my own admission, i moved here october 2002 to come to a job offer. My daughter, however, has now picked up the 'local' accent as she was 11 when we came up from Hull.
Will she be classed as a 'local' purely because she speaks with a thurso accent now? or still a 'white settler' as i will always be.
either way i am not worried how people class me in that sense (local/white settler) as long as they judge on who i am rather than the accent.
your views would be appreciated as i know there are a few steadfast 'locals' and 'non locals' on here.
anneoctober
07-Jan-08, 21:39
I'd like to think that everyone is given a chance to shine here regardless of accent etc. When I'm looking for accurate weather information, it does n't matter to me what side of the border you're from tugs! I've no idea how other "locals" will react to your question, but I'll be interested to see how this thread goes.
Were there no jobs in hull that you could have taken?
Tugmistress
07-Jan-08, 21:42
Were there no jobs in hull that you could have taken?
TBH, I was working in Hull when i was contacted by a firm up here wanting my skills, i was actually at work when i got a call asking if i could start the next day.
I for one do not do the local thing.
I have lived here all my life and my family are all from up here.
I would not however judge someone from where they came from. I actually go by who the person is and what their personality is like.
No-one ever knows what life is going to throw at them so they should treat others like they would like to be treated themselves.
............My daughter, however, has now picked up the 'local' accent as she was 11 when we came up from Hull.
Will she be classed as a 'local' purely because she speaks with a thurso accent now? or still a 'white settler' .............
Well Tugs - what can I say. I can trace back my family line in Caithness to the 1700s but because my Grandfather moved south in the 1930s, my dad was born and bred in Edinburgh and moved here in the early 1960s to work at Dounreay (and live in the "atomics") I am now classed as a "white settler" or as I remember vividly as a child "anither incomer" - and I am Caithness born and bred. The chances of your daughter being classed as local is very slim LOL :lol:. From what I can gather you have to have family roots here to the year dot and never never have been out of the County for more than a two week holiday!
Think anyone unwilling to conform to whatever local ways are, wherever you live, will often be classed as a 'white settler' in a derogatory way more often than any person making the effort to join in the community and does not try to change the community to the way they want it to be.
I have lived in many places and had very few problems with being a 'white settler' or 'incomer' as I usually try to fit into the community.
Where I live at present I try to conform with local ways - no washing hanging out, gardening, car washing etc on a Sunday.
Other incomer neighbours do not try to conform or attempt to join the local community spirit - they believe the people living here must comform to their ways and appear to try to upset local community by doing things on a Sunday which could have easily been done other days as they are retired but they seem to insist on breaking the quiet of the local Sundays.
TBH, I was working in Hull when i was contacted by a firm up here wanting my skills, i was actually at work when i got a call asking if i could start the next day.I was wondering what made people uproot themselves from their own countries. You obviously filled a skills gap up here and have become a valuable member of the community but it must have been a big decision to leave your country for the wilds of the far north at such short notice?
Think anyone unwilling to conform to whatever local ways are, wherever you live, will often be classed as a 'white settler' in a derogatory way more often than any person making the effort to join in the community and does not try to change the community to the way they want it to be.
I have lived in many places and had very few problems with being a 'white settler' or 'incomer' as I usually try to fit into the community.
Where I live at present I try to conform with local ways - no washing hanging out, gardening, car washing etc on a Sunday.
Other incomer neighbours do not try to conform or attempt to join the local community spirit - they believe the people living here must comform to their ways and appear to try to upset local community by doing things on a Sunday which could have easily been done other days as they are retired but they seem to insist on breaking the quiet of the local Sundays.A quite excellent post, that is part of the problem with some not all, settlers in our country, they make no effort to fit in and always think they know better and should try and show the 'peasants' how to live their lives.
Tugmistress
07-Jan-08, 22:01
I was wondering what made people uproot themselves from their own countries. You obviously filled a skills gap up here and have become a valuable member of the community but it must have been a big decision to leave your country for the wilds of the far north at such short notice?
Not really a big decision, had wanted to move to Scotland and not a city for a long time, i was very lucky in getting the job offer so i grabbed the opportunity rather than think about it, lose it and regret all the 'what if's ' if i had not moved.
I hope i 'fit in' rather than try to get people to fit in with me, i had a great few childhood years in a village smaller than Scrabster so i know the way 'localisms' work :)
As for short notice, i got the phone call at 11am, finished my shift at 6pm and set off up here at 11pm ... no time for thought :)
Having been born in Ayrshire and lived there until I was 7 then moved to the Big W.
Classing myself as "local" is a hard one as I am fiercly proud of my Southern roots BUT I am equally proud of my Caithness people.
Its a tough one am i caithnessian or "one of rabs weans" no matter I am SCOTTISH and thats all that matters to me.
Co-incidentally most of my firends who I have known for over 20 years didnt even know I was from the south!!! As i talk the talk i obviously walk the walk!! ;)
orkneylass
07-Jan-08, 22:11
Some people are on very thin ice here with expressions of racism - try replacing some of the prejudicial terms like "white settler" with anti-black expressions and see what it starts to look like. We have had at least 1 prosecution in Orkney for anti-english racism. Given that folk from the highlands have traditionally left in far greater numbers than the English have arrived, can anyone tell me a story of a caithness person being discriminated against in England?
Not really a big decision, had wanted to move to Scotland and not a city for a long time, i was very lucky in getting the job offer so i grabbed the opportunity rather than think about it, lose it and regret all the 'what if's ' if i had not moved.
I hope i 'fit in' rather than try to get people to fit in with me, i had a great few childhood years in a village smaller than Scrabster so i know the way 'localisms' work :)
As for short notice, i got the phone call at 11am, finished my shift at 6pm and set off up here at 11pm ... no time for thought :)Having lived in a small village you understand full well the impact of incomers that try to impart their way of life on the local populace. You have made the effort to fit in and I take my hat off to you.
What attracted you to life in Scotland, I really am interested as I would find it hard to live anywhere but gods own country and wonder if your reasons matched mine to some extent.
the second coming
07-Jan-08, 22:20
Some people are on very thin ice here with expressions of racism - try replacing some of the prejudicial terms like "white settler" with anti-black expressions and see what it starts to look like. We have had at least 1 prosecution in Orkney for anti-english racism. Given that folk from the highlands have traditionally left in far greater numbers than the English have arrived, can anyone tell me a story of a caithness person being discriminated against in England?
A cracking post, you have my respect.
Some people are on very thin ice here with expressions of racism - try replacing some of the prejudicial terms like "white settler" with anti-black expressions and see what it starts to look like. We have had at least 1 prosecution in Orkney for anti-english racism. Given that folk from the highlands have traditionally left in far greater numbers than the English have arrived, can anyone tell me a story of a caithness person being discriminated against in England?If someone said anti-white settler then I would see your point but in actuality all it means is a white person that has settled in another country or another part of the country, nothing derogatory in that no matter how you try to interpret it. That racism card is so readily pulled out it is unbelievable.
orkneylass
07-Jan-08, 22:27
But you are clearly a racist and I am amazed that the moderators have not intervened in the 2 threads in which you have been expressing racist views. Are you saying that a paedophile is just a person that likes children??? It is just the same sort of twist you are trying to make to justify your prejudice. Try saying "I could never bring myself to talk to a darkie" and tell me that that would not be construed as racism.
Tugmistress
07-Jan-08, 22:28
Having lived in a small village you understand full well the impact of incomers that try to impart their way of life on the local populace. You have made the effort to fit in and I take my hat off to you.
What attracted you to life in Scotland, I really am interested as I would find it hard to live anywhere but gods own country and wonder if your reasons matched mine to some extent.
the wildness, the remoteness, the spectacularly clean air, the slow pace of life, the friendliness of the people, the weather and the scenery, all this in no particular order. i love it here, it feels like a home not a place to exist, i can't explain why it just does.
oh and one thing i found out after moving here, my nana's nana was hoy born and bred :eek:
Tugmistress
07-Jan-08, 22:31
Some people are on very thin ice here with expressions of racism - try replacing some of the prejudicial terms like "white settler" with anti-black expressions and see what it starts to look like. We have had at least 1 prosecution in Orkney for anti-english racism. Given that folk from the highlands have traditionally left in far greater numbers than the English have arrived, can anyone tell me a story of a caithness person being discriminated against in England?
i personally do not take the term 'white settler' in any derogatory way, it is what i am, i am white and i have settled in a place other than my birth. Some people may choose to see it as racism, but personally i do not.
Anti english racism is around but in far worse terms than white settler and thankfully by only a few.
anneoctober
07-Jan-08, 22:32
the wildness, the remoteness, the spectacularly clean air, the slow pace of life, the friendliness of the people, the weather and the scenery, all this in no particular order. i love it here, it feels like a home not a place to exist, i can't explain why it just does.
oh and one thing i found out after moving here, my nana's nana was hoy born and bred :eek:
I've always said that the Org claims its own..........[lol]
the wildness, the remoteness, the spectacularly clean air, the slow pace of life, the friendliness of the people, the weather and the scenery, all this in no particular order. i love it here, it feels like a home not a place to exist, i can't explain why it just does.
oh and one thing i found out after moving here, my nana's nana was hoy born and bred :eek:I agree, caithness is one of the most pure and beautiful places on earth and I am glad that you have found yourself feeling so at home here. Some search and never find true inner peace.
Regards
i personally do not take the term 'white settler' in any derogatory way, it is what i am, i am white and i have settled in a place other than my birth. Some people may choose to see it as racism, but personally i do not.
Anti english racism is around but in far worse terms than white settler and thankfully by only a few.Another excellent post, some people seem to choose to interpret things to suite their own agendas.:D
connieb19
07-Jan-08, 22:37
Since when were the English a different race anyway? :confused
I've always said that the Org claims its own..........[lol]
Brilliant! It was exactly what I was thinking, especially with Tugs in mind. Thanks.
Since when were the English a different race anyway? :confused
Fair comment, connieb19............they are a different nationality of the same race............though racism covers nationalities as well.
White settler has nothing at all to do with being English anyway..it just seems to be the English who take umbrage every time the expression is used.......and, frankly, that is their problem, not everyone else's.
I'm a white settler...though not an English one.......and acknowledge the fact without taking offence at the expression.
I've found that most people take you as they find you........and if they find you wanting, it is less likely to be because of nationality than to be because of attitude.
Nobody can do anything about nationality..but if they really want to, they can about attitude.....then maybe they'd not feel they are being got at and put it down to racism rather than themselves.
coppertop 1958
07-Jan-08, 23:22
i like to start a vote poll for local caithnesians ........
but i dont know how to start one and do can one ...any one help me out
how to set one up
as i think i am a local .... but not to shure... shure off my mum but not off my dad ...
Boozeburglar
07-Jan-08, 23:25
But you are clearly a racist and I am amazed that the moderators have not intervened in the 2 threads in which you have been expressing racist views. Are you saying that a paedophile is just a person that likes children??? It is just the same sort of twist you are trying to make to justify your prejudice. Try saying "I could never bring myself to talk to a darkie" and tell me that that would not be construed as racism.
Did you mean to say "I could never bring myself to talk to a black person"?
As a local born and bred, some of the nicest people i know are classed as incomers and some of the worst are locals.
Were there no jobs in hull that you could have taken?
Not being funny TBH but with you having such a strong sense of yourself belonging to Caithness and it is a very big problem for you to accept any incomers, why do you use the English language to communicate?
There are one or two people on here who are proud to use their Caithness dialect whilst writing and surely Caithnessians should be encouraged to do the same. I'm sure the folks who have chosen to stay in the county would enjoy getting to grips with it as some of them have already proved and I really admire them for it as it is a difficult dialect.
As I said, I am not being funny but would like to hear your views on this slant of the thread.
Boozeburglar
08-Jan-08, 00:18
The so called English language is English in name only.
The evolution of English as spoken today is as much down to great Scottish thinkers as anyone else.
Indeed, some of the most important works ever written in English were created by Scots.
The so called English language is English in name only.
The evolution of English as spoken today is as much down to great Scottish thinkers as anyone else.
Indeed, some of the most important works ever written in English were created by Scots.
Yes, I do know that.
To make my post more easily understood I was asking TBH why don't they write using the Caithness dialect to express themselves as I would imagine that the fear of *English people could be set off by hearing the *English accent(s) around all the time.
I must admit I sympathise with their problem as it must make going out and about very difficult.
*English as in the vernacular.....
well, Im an incomer of 5 1/2 years standing now and have settled into village life. I dont particularly go out of my way to fit in, nor do I deliberately do things different to make a statment. I do the things here that I did in the community when I lived in a village near Henley. Support the local schools, hospitals charities etc in any way I could because I classed myself as part of that local community. Since being here, we have made some very good close friends and we are able to talk openly with one another. Most local communities have a diversity of peeps, always have had and always will. As peeps who lives, works, contributes and participates in the community, we think of ourselfs as local without roots and those born and bred here as local with roots. These terms do not cause offense, upset or otherwise, and I have found there is only a small minority of peeps who are - lets say of different opinion. And TBH to answer your question, try spending some time in these big cities and you will clearly understand how Caithness is Heaven on earth to most of us "locals without roots" I hope you enjoy what you got, because you wont know what its like until you lose it. :)
I was born in Inverness which is part of the Highlands when I last checked, can anyone tell me am I a white settler too?
Having lived in a small village you understand full well the impact of incomers that try to impart their way of life on the local populace. You have made the effort to fit in and I take my hat off to you.
Works both ways TBH. Maybe incomers have something to impart to locals, and vice versa, from their different ways of life? We can all learn, though those who can't accept differences might have a problem.
.
What attracted you to life in Scotland, I really am interested as I would find it hard to live anywhere but gods own country and wonder if your reasons matched mine to some extent.[/quote]
My mother came from Bettyhill but moved away when she was a teenager, but her relatives remained so I had many happy holidays there with relatuves when i was a child. My small children also experienced the same happy holidays, so we decided to move up here to give the childrena good life and a good education which they got.My ex husband got a job and we moved up which I didnt regret, though I do miss friends in england.That was a long time ago, I didn't expect to still be here!!
Has it not always been this way regarding incomers be it villages or towns be it Caithness or any other County but if they work within the Community and join in local events why not be accepted they earn there money and spend it there and in the past towns etc have thrived by the arrival of the Atomics and the Naval Base etc etc Clubs Pubs and Shops in the past have got there fair share from the influx of contractors and workers to the county
and Tugs well done you a good county to pick and they got a great asset
Not being funny TBH but with you having such a strong sense of yourself belonging to Caithness and it is a very big problem for you to accept any incomers, why do you use the English language to communicate?
There are one or two people on here who are proud to use their Caithness dialect whilst writing and surely Caithnessians should be encouraged to do the same. I'm sure the folks who have chosen to stay in the county would enjoy getting to grips with it as some of them have already proved and I really admire them for it as it is a difficult dialect.
As I said, I am not being funny but would like to hear your views on this slant of the thread.Being taught only proper English at school makes it difficult to try and write in dialect but it is something I would like to try only if I could learn how to write it down correctly as some people are able to.
Has it not always been this way regarding incomers be it villages or towns be it Caithness or any other County but if they work within the Community and join in local events why not be accepted they earn there money and spend it there and in the past towns etc have thrived by the arrival of the Atomics and the Naval Base etc etc Clubs Pubs and Shops in the past have got there fair share from the influx of contractors and workers to the county
and Tugs well done you a good county to pick and they got a great asset
Well said Anne; there has to give and take on both sides whether it be moving into a new area, getting married, working alongside etc., etc.:)
Being taught only proper English at school makes it difficult to try and write in dialect but it is something I would like to try only if I could learn how to write it down correctly as some people are able to.
Ah but wur no' very shure fit 'e richt way is! Hid depends on whereaboots 'e come from in 'e county......'e Weekers and 'e Thursonians hev differan' wordies besides us neep dockers and 'em up 'e coast are a wee bittie more heelan' spoken than 'e rest o' hiz. Then thur's 'e fowkies up at Canisbay and Chonny Groats who hev yit anither twang, if 'e see whit a mean........;)
Dog-eared
08-Jan-08, 03:16
Id all depends on how ee treat ithers no maiter far yur fae.
Choost dinnae come here wi fancy sooth - moother ideas an tryin till change ur weys , an tellin us wir ould fashined.
Now, ah'll hev till love 'ee an leave 'ee . I hev a hot date an ah kin hear her callin' on me at e' back door.
Ah'll choost get ma wellies on an' a neep in ma poakid. ;)
I was born in Inverness which is part of the Highlands when I last checked, can anyone tell me am I a white settler too?
I'm a white settler, and I was born in Morayshire with a mother born and bred in Caithness as far back as records go.
Metalattakk
08-Jan-08, 04:11
Think anyone unwilling to conform to whatever local ways are, wherever you live, will often be classed as a 'white settler' in a derogatory way more often than any person making the effort to join in the community and does not try to change the community to the way they want it to be.
I have lived in many places and had very few problems with being a 'white settler' or 'incomer' as I usually try to fit into the community.
Where I live at present I try to conform with local ways - no washing hanging out, gardening, car washing etc on a Sunday.
Other incomer neighbours do not try to conform or attempt to join the local community spirit - they believe the people living here must comform to their ways and appear to try to upset local community by doing things on a Sunday which could have easily been done other days as they are retired but they seem to insist on breaking the quiet of the local Sundays.
Great post, and I agree completely.
'Incomers', 'white settlers', 'sooth-moothers', whatever you want to call them, won't earn as much as a "fit lek e' day" from a local if they bring their so called fancy, sophisticated ways up with them, and try to dominate or dictate with them. The minute an 'incomer' feels himself above the locals, he's in trouble.
However, if the 'incomer' is willing to integrate with the locals, then they will be accepted as a 'local' unwaveringly. There is no question of that.
brokencross
08-Jan-08, 09:14
ok i don't want to hijack the thread about the antiques roadshow, but to carry on a little bit here where it went off on a tangent to hopefully bring that one back on track :)
i am not a local by my own admission, i moved here october 2002 to come to a job offer. My daughter, however, has now picked up the 'local' accent as she was 11 when we came up from Hull.
Will she be classed as a 'local' purely because she speaks with a thurso accent now? or still a 'white settler' as i will always be.
either way i am not worried how people class me in that sense (local/white settler) as long as they judge on who i am rather than the accent.
your views would be appreciated as i know there are a few steadfast 'locals' and 'non locals' on here.
An interesting thread, which started off with a valid straightforward question; pseudoracism was introduced, some xenophobic tendencies being shown with personal prejudices also in the mix and no real overall consensus.
Here is another question to add to the debate, I was born in Wick, left at 9, lived in England for 5 years, moved back to Thurso from age 14 to 16 and then moved again and have lived in various parts of Scotland and England since. If I moved back now would I be treated as a local?? I have lost all my Scots/Caithness accent.
'Incomers', 'white settlers', 'sooth-moothers', whatever you want to call them, won't earn as much as a "fit lek e' day" from a local if they bring their so called fancy, sophisticated ways up with them, and try to dominate or dictate with them. The minute an 'incomer' feels himself above the locals, he's in trouble.
However, if the 'incomer' is willing to integrate with the locals, then they will be accepted as a 'local' unwaveringly. There is no question of that.
Sure, some of the above appear to be "overbearing" or "intrusive" - but where exactly would Caithness be without them?
I have always had the feeling that it was principally the "incomers" that provided the enthusiasm and drive for local activities. Left to their own devices - the indigenous population wouldn't have bothered their backsides.
Even the American base at Forss, with it's "foreign" personnel, while not injecting much financially to the county - did add a certain cosmopolitan "feel" to the area, so should be considered as a nett benefit.
As an " incomer " from Lincs i and my family received the Scots/English divide where you wouldn't expect in the least. School.
My daughter and another girl had fallen out,( typical kids ) i was called into school, the police were called by my instructions as a weapon had been used. Anyway when i was speaking to a rather high member of staff he said to us, he couldn't really help as " we tend to stick together us Scots :eek:" . I was gobsmacked !
He was the only one who EVER showed us any you and us and i could of excepted it from anyone else, but the school !!!!!! jan x
Were there no jobs in hull that you could have taken?
Should a person not take a job that interests them and for which they are wanted if it is not "in their neighbourhood"?
I have not been local for the last 25 years of my life. I doubt that returning to my roots would, now, entitle me to being a local.
I love living in Caithness. It is a beautiful place with nice people. We are all privledged to live and work here (though some might chaff at the bit!). I do have it under authority, though, that unless your great great gran is buried here, you are still an incomer!;)
Should a person not take a job that interests them and for which they are wanted if it is not "in their neighbourhood"?
I have not been local for the last 25 years of my life. I doubt that returning to my roots would, now, entitle me to being a local.
I love living in Caithness. It is a beautiful place with nice people. We are all privledged to live and work here (though some might chaff at the bit!). I do have it under authority, though, that unless your great great gran is buried here, you are still an incomer!;)I have already stated the reason for my question in a previous post. Why do people wish to leave their homes, what dissatisfies them about their former town, village, city? Is it because of rising crime levels, economic reasons, did they holiday here and decide that when they retired they would like to live here? Did they move because of a perceived flooding of their cities and towns with foreign nationals? Is it unreasonable to even ask these questions?
There is an interesting article on "White Settlers" here:-
http://www.siol-nan-gaidheal-usa.com/demog.htm
Make of it what you will!!
I have already stated the reason for my question in a previous post. Why do people wish to leave their homes, what dissatisfies them about their former town, village, city? Is it because of rising crime levels, economic reasons, did they holiday here and decide that when they retired they would like to live here? Did they move because of a perceived flooding of their cities and towns with foreign nationals? Is it unreasonable to even ask these questions?
TBH, you see Caithness as a good place to live -is it unreasonable for other folk to want to live there too? Or would you like a customs barrier built at the Ord?
My mother's family were Caithness born as far as I can trace back ...into the 1700s so far... I lived in Caithness when I was wee and moving away was NOT my choice!
I don't have a Caithness accent though, or indeed any particular accent. If you bumped into me in Tesco would you automatically feel panic and dislike?
Would you treat me differently if I had "Caithness roots" tattooed across my forehead? Would it help if I had copies of my ancestors' birth certificates to hand? Or my old school photos from the North School?
Or would I still be an unwelcome incomer as far as you were concerned? :( :confused
TBH - Everything you say seems to be negative. Has it occurred to you that people move to experience other parts of the country or the world, not to get away from anything but just from a sense of adventure? I have moved around a lot for various reasons and have sometimes envied people who have lived in the same house all their lives, but not for long. People move to new jobs (the days anyone stayed the same job all their lives are gone), to be near family or, as I say, just to try somewhere different.
We can all learn from each other and about each other - living near people from other places is the best way to do this. Is that so bad? I think maybe you need to get out and about a bit more - there's a whole wide world out there just waiting for you.
Should a person not take a job that interests them and for which they are wanted if it is not "in their neighbourhood"?
I have not been local for the last 25 years of my life. I doubt that returning to my roots would, now, entitle me to being a local.
I love living in Caithness. It is a beautiful place with nice people. We are all privledged to live and work here (though some might chaff at the bit!). I do have it under authority, though, that unless your great great gran is buried here, you are still an incomer!;)
You forgot to say .........your great great gran on both sides. ;)
Do not care what applies - it is just a name and as long as you integrate into the area where you live and do your best to get along with everyone you will soon be accepted, wherever you live
If you do not integrate you will soon be called a name - people who have lived all their lives in the area if they are seen to be pushie/odd/awkward/bolshie/reclusive/or a bit different to what is considered acceptable locally will have a byename too and it will not be as polite as local/white settler/incomer.
To me white settler/incomer does not mean you are white, it just means you have lived some of your life elsewhere before living where you live now.
Wherever you are folk will be called names.
Many places I lived I was called a teuchter - is that derogatory too, I always took it as a compliment, what would your views be?
I do have it under authority, though, that unless your great great gran is buried here, you are still an incomer!;)
I have both sides of my families Great Great Grandparents buried in Caithness, I was born there but have not lived there for 61 years of my life, I have living relatives there at the moment. My question is would you class me as a White Settler / Incomer, if I came back to the county of my birth to live out my retirment?
NickInTheNorth
08-Jan-08, 11:56
I'm a white settler and proud of it.
I moved to Caithness from the West Highlands, having moved there from Yorkshire 6 years previously. The original move from Yorkshire for me was largely about quality of life. The sense of space. The lack of pollution. The lower crime levels. The opportunity to step out of the rat race.
When moving to Caithness it was to offer more possibilities for social and sporting activities for my children. To have more work opportunities. However it was also important to maintain the quality of life. I believe that for my family Caithness offers the perfect balance of opportunity and tranquillity.
TBH
I don't know if you have ever tried living and working either in Edinburgh or in any major urban area in England. Until you have I am afraid that you will not have any real understanding of the true horrors of the modern urban life. It is the difference between battery hens and free range. One exists, one lives.
I chose a life!
I'm a white settler and proud of it.
I moved to Caithness from the West Highlands, having moved there from Yorkshire 6 years previously. The original move from Yorkshire for me was largely about quality of life. The sense of space. The lack of pollution. The lower crime levels. The opportunity to step out of the rat race.
When moving to Caithness it was to offer more possibilities for social and sporting activities for my children. To have more work opportunities. However it was also important to maintain the quality of life. I believe that for my family Caithness offers the perfect balance of opportunity and tranquillity.
TBH
I don't know if you have ever tried living and working either in Edinburgh or in any major urban area in England. Until you have I am afraid that you will not have any real understanding of the true horrors of the modern urban life. It is the difference between battery hens and free range. One exists, one lives.
I chose a life!Excellent post and one keeping in line with the actual question and not attaching something sinister to it.
NickInTheNorth
08-Jan-08, 12:24
Excellent post and one keeping in line with the actual question and not attaching something sinister to it.
Many thanks.
I meant to add that I also agree with the posters that have made the point that how you are treated as an "incomer" to any community is largely of your own making.
I know of one village on the west coast that is now totally dominated by English settlers. The few remaining locals no longer get involved in any of the activities organised by the "local" community. I feel more foreign there amongst my "fellow countryman" than I ever have anywhere else in Scotland. It feels like being in the Home Counties of south east England, and I truly hate it. They have tried and succeeded in imposing their sense of the world on a beautiful location with old well established traditions that have been ignored because that is not "how we do it".
I know of no real locals that can even hope to buy a property there as the prices are now big city prices, on country wages that puts housing beyond reach. When an old local property owner tried to get planning permission for some affordable housing the nimbys where out in force. There were no such objections to a small development of luxury houses which have all been snapped up as second homes.
I really despise that attitude. Where ever it is found.
Boozeburglar
08-Jan-08, 12:27
I have already stated the reason for my question in a previous post. Why do people wish to leave their homes, what dissatisfies them about their former town, village, city? Is it because of rising crime levels, economic reasons, did they holiday here and decide that when they retired they would like to live here? Did they move because of a perceived flooding of their cities and towns with foreign nationals? Is it unreasonable to even ask these questions?
Perhaps it is not unreasonable to ask some of these questions.
However, it is pointless entering into a debate with someone who claims to have a phobia to excuse prejudice, and who claims to be 76 in some attempt to excuse intransigence.
Perhaps it is not unreasonable to ask some of these questions.
However, it is pointless entering into a debate with someone who claims to have a phobia to excuse prejudice, and who claims to be 76 in some attempt to excuse intransigence.You think what you like, that is your prerogative but it wont make you accurate in your assumptions! Is it pointless, well You see some positive feedback from certain posters so perhaps not so pointless after all. Take NickInTheNorth's post offering his explanation of why he wished to settle in caithness and you will see it wasn't pointless after all. He also offered his view about a place he knows where incomers have become the majority and traditions are being eroded. House prices being being inflated out of reach of the real local. I applaud his views and resisting to falsely scream about racism and bigotry, easy to do when you have nothing to offer to a conversation.
Boozeburglar
08-Jan-08, 14:12
You think what you like, that is your prerogative but it wont make you accurate in your assumptions! Is it pointless, well You see some positive feedback from certain posters so perhaps not so pointless after all. Take NickInTheNorth's post offering his explanation of why he wished to settle in caithness and you will see it wasn't pointless after all. He also offered his view about a place he knows where incomers have become the majority and traditions are being eroded. House prices being being inflated out of reach of the real local. I applaud his views and resisting to falsely scream about racism and bigotry, easy to do when you have nothing to offer to a conversation.
I cannot take you seriously after you claim to have a phobia and claim to be 76. Care to tell me why I should?
I cannot take you seriously after you claim to have a phobia and claim to be 76. Care to tell me why I should?Would you care to tell me what age would be acceptable for you?
I was born in Inverness which is part of the Highlands when I last checked, can anyone tell me am I a white settler too?
Yes...although the term is not pleasant...I am from Ross-Shire and feel like a semi-local.
Boozeburglar
08-Jan-08, 14:27
Would you care to tell me what age would be acceptable for you?
How about not claiming to be a certain age because you think it excuses your position?
Lying about your age suggests there is little reason to take anything you say seriously.
I don't know if you have ever tried living and working either in Edinburgh or in any major urban area in England. Until you have I am afraid that you will not have any real understanding of the true horrors of the modern urban life. It is the difference between battery hens and free range. One exists, one lives.
I chose a life!
As I've said to you elsewhere (can't remember where?), plenty of people enjoy living in big cities and would absolutely hate to live in the country. If you love the country that's fine, but I don't think you should assume that makes you right and city dwellers wrong - just different. It certainly doesn't compare to battery/free range as many would find more freedom in the city and believe that is living, the country is just existing. I adapt to wherever I live but would be quite happy to go back to city life with theatres, concerts etc.
How about not claiming to be a certain age because you think it excuses your position?
Lying about your age suggests there is little reason to take anything you say seriously.Lying about my age, funniest thing I have read i a long while.[lol]
I don't know if you have ever tried living and working either in Edinburgh or in any major urban area in England. Until you have I am afraid that you will not have any real understanding of the true horrors of the modern urban life. It is the difference between battery hens and free range. One exists, one lives.
So now I'm a battery hen, am I, Nick? :roll: :eek:
Boozeburglar
08-Jan-08, 14:43
TBH: So you maintain that you are 76?
cuddlepop
08-Jan-08, 15:29
ok i don't want to hijack the thread about the antiques roadshow, but to carry on a little bit here where it went off on a tangent to hopefully bring that one back on track :)
i am not a local by my own admission, i moved here october 2002 to come to a job offer. My daughter, however, has now picked up the 'local' accent as she was 11 when we came up from Hull.
Will she be classed as a 'local' purely because she speaks with a thurso accent now? or still a 'white settler' as i will always be.
either way i am not worried how people class me in that sense (local/white settler) as long as they judge on who i am rather than the accent.
your views would be appreciated as i know there are a few steadfast 'locals' and 'non locals' on here.
Living over on Skye your classed as a local if your born and bred or if you marry a local.
My brother moved her at 16 a number of years ago and now lives in Inverness
he's not local to anywhere in his opinion.:lol:
Me,I left Glasgow at 8 but I still class myself as local to Glasgow and them to me.
NickInTheNorth
08-Jan-08, 17:57
I don't know if you have ever tried living and working either in Edinburgh or in any major urban area in England. Until you have I am afraid that you will not have any real understanding of the true horrors of the modern urban life. It is the difference between battery hens and free range. One exists, one lives.
I chose a life!
That is my view, my opinion. Others may differ, but as I was explaining how I feel, and why I made a decision I thought that it was a perfectly good starting point.
As I've said to you elsewhere (can't remember where?), plenty of people enjoy living in big cities and would absolutely hate to live in the country. If you love the country that's fine, but I don't think you should assume that makes you right and city dwellers wrong - just different. It certainly doesn't compare to battery/free range as many would find more freedom in the city and believe that is living, the country is just existing. I adapt to wherever I live but would be quite happy to go back to city life with theatres, concerts etc.
I reiterate, that is my point of view, others are very welcome to disagree.
So now I'm a battery hen, am I, Nick? :roll: :eek:
Only if you agree with me, if you don't then I most certainly would not stick that label on you Angela. Each to their own.
highlander
08-Jan-08, 18:24
THB i am interested to know, is it thier accents you have a phobia with, the reason i am asking is, im sure you have communicated with plenty "white settlers" on here and never come out in a rash.
Metalattakk
08-Jan-08, 18:38
Maybe she's too busy dabbing on the ointment to respond...?
As a southerner, I find that my work environment (as a civilian on a military establishment) involves close contact with hundreds of Scots eight hours a day. Its rare for me to hear an accent other than Scottish.
We call them Jocks and Jockenese, they call us things but nobody is offended. Maybe the military guys have seen more of the world and have adopted a different outlook to those that stayed put.
Many leave the military and decide to live locally, they buy our houses, some marry our women they fit in and nobody has any anti-Scottish feelings - it all seems very natural. I would expect there to be an insular bunch somewhere locally here that might have a different attitude, but they keep it to themselves.
Now I’m just looking forward to my retirement to Caithness, being as smooth as the Scots living in my street (and to get away from the accent!)
TBH, I'm curious to know if you've ever been to England before, and if so, whereabouts? Have you travelled much beyond Inverness, in fact???
Maybe she's too busy dabbing on the ointment to respond...?
Let's hope her prescribing GP has a local accent! ;)
You forgot to say .........your great great gran on both sides.
Culpa mea.... I almost induced hundreds in error and quadrupled the number of authentic Caithnessians in one fell swoop!!! Thanks for the pointer, oddquine!;)
Someone I used to to read alot, a german author that I read in Portuguese most of the time and english some of the time, wrote: "Home is neither here nor there. Home is within you, or home is nowhere at all." (Herman Hesse).
I used to love reading him. I was able to read him exactly because the world was a changing place where different cultures had the oportunity to contact with eachother and where borders were becoming more and more mere lines of demarcation and not barriers to the exchange of ideas, information and even people. I love the fact that I read a german author in the portuguese language on an atlantic island full of tourists and even a whole lot of ex-pats. I love the fact that I can choose to live and work here, and am immensly proud that I had the guts to do it.
The way things are now, a person can choose to welcome chenge and grow with it. Or they can choose not to accept it, but then face an ever growing isolation. I prefer to face change and teach my son to face it as well, and not only face it, but welcome it as one of the instruments that will make us stronger and more able to survive.
phhhhhhhhhhhheewwwwwwwwwww...... sorry about the phylosophical tome. I promise not to do it again! :)
That is my view, my opinion. Others may differ, but as I was explaining how I feel, and why I made a decision I thought that it was a perfectly good starting point.
I suppose it was your stating as a fact that city life is full of horrors and like being a battery hen. If you had said "for me ...." I couldn't possibly disagree because obviously you know how you feel. I get the impression TBH hasn't lived anywhere outside Caithness so don't put him off - city life might be good for him. He might even enjoy it :) .
northener
08-Jan-08, 19:54
There is an interesting article on "White Settlers" here:-
http://www.siol-nan-gaidheal-usa.com/demog.htm (http://forum.caithness.org/go.php?url=http://www.siol-nan-gaidheal-usa.com/demog.htm)
Make of it what you will!!
Xenophobic anti-English tripe.
northener
08-Jan-08, 20:11
Me? I'm a White Settler and proud of it!
I am constantly ribbed about where I come from, I take no offence and give as good as I get.
There are, unfortunately, people who move into an area that has a different culture or ways of doing things, and then proceed to try to dictate to the natives how things 'should be done'.
Thankfully these people are in the minority and usually end up being ostracised by the community they are attempting to control - or they simply give up and then move away. -
Usually complaining loudly about the community they tried to overpower with comments like "They don't like incomers" or "Nobody makes the effort to speak to us".
I remember a conversation I overheard a few years back with an English couple complaining to their friends about the fact that when they bought a house in Provence - "None of the locals could be bothered to speak English".
Thankfully, apart from the odd member of the League for Pig Ignorant and Stupid People ( Caithness branch, Membership: Very small and dwindling) I can say thet Caithnessians are some of the most friendly and laid-back people I have ever met.
That's why there's so many people from Yorkshire and the North of England up here, same attitude, same love of wild places and less hassle!
.
The Pepsi Challenge
08-Jan-08, 20:24
ok i don't want to hijack the thread about the antiques roadshow, but to carry on a little bit here where it went off on a tangent to hopefully bring that one back on track :)
i am not a local by my own admission, i moved here october 2002 to come to a job offer. My daughter, however, has now picked up the 'local' accent as she was 11 when we came up from Hull.
Will she be classed as a 'local' purely because she speaks with a thurso accent now? or still a 'white settler' as i will always be.
either way i am not worried how people class me in that sense (local/white settler) as long as they judge on who i am rather than the accent.
your views would be appreciated as i know there are a few steadfast 'locals' and 'non locals' on here.
My Dad moved to Caithness when he was 12. He's now 62 and once upon a time - just a few years ago - he wasn't allowed to play in a local golf tourney because he was, as some put it, a white settler; and not from Thurso. Insane or what?
NickInTheNorth
08-Jan-08, 20:35
That's why there's so many people from Yorkshire and the North of England up here, same attitude, same love of wild places and less hassle!
.
Totally agree!!
ok.. how does this work.. im american.. *grins* one of those foregniers! *laughs* but i married a dirtee weeker.. thats family was fishermen from the word dot.. and is full of mackenzies and millers. so obviously he is a wicker thru and thru... im a southern (NOT A YANKEE!!) so that will never change.. but my boys are wickers and will always be. it took me several years to settle in here and make friends. the first close friend i made was nearly 4 years after i came here when sam was a baby, and we met at toddlers.
you have to understand, i didnt have anything in common with my peers.. i was 22 when i came here. i didnt drink or party, had no use for pubs, and was quite happy to just be with hubby.
so was really hard to make new friends as had nothing in common.
but now i know just about everyone.. and can play the association game like a pro.. ohhh have you heard, so and sos neices boyfriednds mates mum... *grins* and link everyone to everyone!
so it all came together in the end.. and wick is now home.
when asked if i would ever go back home to live.. the answer is no.
because wick is my home now, and as much as i miss my family back home. my place is now here
Agree with Nick & Northener.
THB i am interested to know, is it thier accents you have a phobia with, the reason i am asking is, im sure you have communicated with plenty "white settlers" on here and never come out in a rash.I didn't know it was an allergic reaction but I do take settlers for the indigestion.:eek:
Maybe she's too busy dabbing on the ointment to respond...?That midgie repellent takes time to spread evenly.
TBH, I'm curious to know if you've ever been to England before, and if so, whereabouts? Have you travelled much beyond Inverness, in fact???I have traveled the world but clicked my heals repeating, 'there's no place like home'.
Let's hope her prescribing GP has a local accent! No but he does a good local anaethetic.;)
TBH, I have to hand it to you - those are very clever replies! And they did make me laugh! :lol:
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