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I dont know about you but i have always had a problem with my spelling. Im not at all embarrassed by it but some people just have to ridicule others about it.( and you know who you are:p ) Surely if you understand what someone is saying then thats the way it is. Have you had a problem?? and do you get ridiculed about it ?? are you embarrassed :o. jan x
Metalattakk
04-Jan-08, 16:29
Surely if you understand what someone is saying then thats the way it is.
How do you know if someone else can or cannot understand you? That is why there are standards, taught in school - so everyone reads from the same hymn book, so to speak.
Why would you be content that someone might misunderstand you?
Just you keep on posting Jan, i understand what you are saying, just as a great many others do. it is the taking part in something that matters, not how you write it. If others have a problem with that, then that's what it is.[lol] Their problem. :lol:
What a world this would be if we were all perfect.
How do you know if someone else can or cannot understand you? That is why there are standards, taught in school - so everyone reads from the same hymn book, so to speak.
Why would you be content that someone might misunderstand you?Oh here we go again:lol: I would be more than content if no one understood me , it wouldnt bother me in the slightest, their loss not mine ! jan x
Metalattakk
04-Jan-08, 17:05
Of course, that is your choice. ;)
my brother is dyslexic and he was nearly 13 years old before he even learned to read. he was passed each grade as the teachers didnt want to deal with him and put him down as a troublesom child. when he was 12 they put him into special classes for challenged children. his teacher noticed straight away that if he was asked a verbal question he had no problems answeing. but when it was a written question he was completley lost and would become beligerant and angry with his frustration. she went to my mum.. (granny for folks that do no know my granny raised me) as my real mom had recently died and he came to live with us.
she and the teacher worked together and within months cody was starting to read. my mum would coach him with road signs and the tv, as he had no intrest in books.
then when he discovered the internet it was a great help, as he could spend hours on it, and learn to read and write at the same time.
so spelling mistakes do not bother me.. text speak does. *grrrr* and just complete rubbish typing when you can type reasonably. i dont type with a southern drawl *winks* you def. wouldnt be able to understand that!
but no i dont think people should judge spelling mistakes when they are sincere mistakes..
my brother is dyslexic and he was nearly 13 years old before he even learned to read. he was passed each grade as the teachers didnt want to deal with him and put him down as a troublesom child. when he was 12 they put him into special classes for challenged children. his teacher noticed straight away that if he was asked a verbal question he had no problems answeing. but when it was a written question he was completley lost and would become beligerant and angry with his frustration. she went to my mum.. (granny for folks that do no know my granny raised me) as my real mom had recently died and he came to live with us.
she and the teacher worked together and within months cody was starting to read. my mum would coach him with road signs and the tv, as he had no intrest in books.
then when he discovered the internet it was a great help, as he could spend hours on it, and learn to read and write at the same time.
so spelling mistakes do not bother me.. text speak does. *grrrr* and just complete rubbish typing when you can type reasonably. i dont type with a southern drawl *winks* you def. wouldnt be able to understand that!
but no i dont think people should judge spelling mistakes when they are sincere mistakes..
Here, here Brandy, i'll second that.;)
Metalattakk
04-Jan-08, 17:59
Hear, hear Brandy, I'll second that.;)
Fixed your deliberate 'typos', nanoo. No need to thank me... ;)
Fixed your deliberate 'typos', nanoo. No need to thank me... ;)
:lol: --- Okay Metalattakk.
If a thing is worth doing, it's worth doing well. My cooking is pretty awful these days because I don't entertain as much as I once did but that doesn't mean I'm satisfied with it and don't make an effort when feeding others. It also doesn't mean when something turns out badly that I'm happy to leave it at that rather than trying to do better next time.
Why should people have to struggle to read something, which is obviously intended to be read? To be honest, Jan, I can't see anything wrong with your spelling - punctuation isn't perfect but spelling looks fine:o). But what is the point of posting if you're happy for no-one to understand you? Sounds like a waste of time. Some posts are really hard to read and I wonder how many persevere to try to understand them or just give up.
I hate making mistakes and am far more critical of myself than anyone else, partly because my father (who left school at 14) was fanatical about it, but in my job I have to be. For anyone who is worried about spelling and wants to improve, it's always possible to enter something in Word and spellcheck before pasting it here. If you’re going to do something in public, why wouldn’t you want to do it as well as possible?
Incidentally I don’t believe the ability to spell has anything to do with brains or education – I’m nowhere near as clever or as well-educated as some of my friends whose spelling is worse than mine. But, they know it and take pains to correct it.
The way children who have a problem with reading/writing are neglected in schools is disgraceful – don’t even get me started [disgust] .
I do notice spelling mistakes, but I would never "ridicule" anybody for poor spelling (or grammar), or indeed even comment on it. Neither would I think that it reflected on the person's intelligence or any other personal attributes.
But is it getting to the stage that those of us who have learned to spell reasonably well most of the time, and make an effort not to make mistakes, are starting to feel we should almost be apologising? :confused :confused
Hi Angela, I will never apologise for MY mistakes and dont see why others should either, its not as if ive commited murder is it . Some people just have to pick at others for spelling mistakes, were all not gifted with a dictonary in our gobs ! Well im not anyway lol JAN X
Some people just have to pick at others for spelling mistakes,
Priceless when they make a mistake themselves.:lol:
I dont know about you but i have always had a problem with my spelling. Im not at all embarrassed by it but some people just have to ridicule others about it.( and you know who you are:p ) Surely if you understand what someone is saying then thats the way it is. Have you had a problem?? and do you get ridiculed about it ?? are you embarrassed :o. jan x
I've never had a problem reading your posts Jan so just you carry on posting. The pleasure your posts give us far outweigh any wee boobs you (or anybody else for that matter) may make. Cheers
connieb19
04-Jan-08, 18:46
Maybe the orgers who are perfect at spelling and grammar could give those of us who are less educated some lessons. I'd be happy to learn. I've never seen any classes locally or at college or I'd go. :confused
Other peoples spelling and grammar dosn't bother me but I am ashamed of my own. Almost as ashamed as I am at the state of my windows, they're mingin. :eek:
I have'nt seen your windows connieb 19, but i bet they are'nt as bad as mine, they are mocket as i would say.:roll:;)
Maybe the orgers who are perfect at spelling and grammar could give those of us who are less educated some lessons. I'd be happy to learn. I've never seen any classes locally or at college or I'd go.
Other peoples spelling and grammar dosn't bother me but I am ashamed of my own. Almost as ashamed as I am at the state of my windows, they're mingin. :eek:
As with Jan's I have never had any problem with your posts Connie, nowt wrong wi' 'em!
Now your windows..........that's another story........:lol:
Billy Boy
04-Jan-08, 18:59
Maybe the orgers who are perfect at spelling and grammar could give those of us who are less educated some lessons. I'd be happy to learn. I've never seen any classes locally or at college or I'd go.
Other peoples spelling and grammar dosn't bother me but I am ashamed of my own. Almost as ashamed as I am at the state of my windows, they're mingin.
If your mingin windows are the only things you have to be ashamed of, Then lol, your doing well, at least wi mingin windows you'll no be bothered wi peepin toms
I'm no great at spelling and grammer but to all those who dont like it :Razz
connieb19
04-Jan-08, 18:59
I have'nt seen your windows connieb 19, but i bet they are'nt as bad as mine, they are mocket as i would say.:roll:;)lol I'm just glad it's dark now so I can close the curtains on them.
I have'nt seen your windows connieb 19, but i bet they are'nt as bad as mine, they are mocket as i would say.:roll:;)
Golly oh gosh; it's an epidemic!
Golly oh gosh; it's an epidemic!
Sure is, i don't open the blinds anymore!:lol:
connieb19
04-Jan-08, 19:01
If your mingin windows are the only things you have to be ashamed of, Then lol, your doing well
Hmm, well, erm I'll not go into that. [para]
Billy Boy
04-Jan-08, 19:02
lol I'm just glad it's dark now so I can close the curtains on them.
what the peepin toms lol [para]
Ive had 3 grandsons at my windows so you can imagin what they look like ! Now they ARE mingin:eek: jan x
Ive had 3 grandsons at my windows so you can imagin what they look like ! Now they ARE mingin:eek: jan x
I can imagine, i'll never let the kids wash the car again.:eek:
I can imagine, i'll never let the kids wash the car again.:eek:
Did you explain that licking wasn't the quickest method?:lol:
Did you explain that licking wasn't the quickest method?:lol:
Yes, after i watched them lick the wheel trims i decided it would be fairer to give them a bucket and sponge.
never heed the spelling as long as yea can coont:lol:lol
Botheed my friend ...i can do that LOL 1..2..33..4.5...... jan x
orkneylass
04-Jan-08, 20:22
Maybe the orgers who are perfect at spelling and grammar could give those of us who are less educated some lessons. I'd be happy to learn. I've never seen any classes locally or at college or I'd go. :confused
Other peoples spelling and grammar dosn't bother me but I am ashamed of my own. Almost as ashamed as I am at the state of my windows, they're mingin. :eek:
Well done you - if an inability to spell and use grammar correctly is due to a lack of education rather than a diagnosed problem like dyslexia, then the desire to do something about it, to learn and improve is admirable. It is the people who recognise their ignorance and rather than do something about it, proclaim it as a badge of pride, that disappoint me. Ignorance is fixable whereas low intelligence is not.
I like to draw people's attention to the struggles of the past to establish universal educational opportunities in this country, and to the children and adults all over the world who walk miles to schools to learn, or dream of the opportunity to do so. To those who claim pride in their ignorance, shame on you!
Well smack my wrists ! :( jan x
I dont know about you but i have always had a problem with my spelling. Im not at all embarrassed by it but some people just have to ridicule others about it.( and you know who you are:p ) Surely if you understand what someone is saying then thats the way it is. Have you had a problem?? and do you get ridiculed about it ?? are you embarrassed :o. jan x
Trouble Spelling Paris?????.......................never noticed 'at afore, were you not one of the original .Org witches, they never heeded or needed to if they spelt badly
I dont know about you but i have always had a problem with my spelling. Im not at all embarrassed by it but some people just have to ridicule others about it.( and you know who you are ) Surely if you understand what someone is saying then thats the way it is. Have you had a problem?? and do you get ridiculed about it ?? are you embarrassed :o. jan x
I quite agree with you, Paris. As a teacher some might expect me to be forever correcting people's spelling but as you suggest, this is not the place to do so. Also, we all have to accept that a very large and diverse number of members is going to include a wide and diverse range of spellings and colloquialisms. It all adds to life's rich tapestry, as they say. ;)
Paris, most people couldn't give a 4 X whether you can spell or your grammar is less than perfect so don't give it a second thought. I find your posts to be easily understood as I am sure most others do. A lot of people purporting to have a higher understanding of English grammar and spelling have neither and are just as prone to the same mistakes that others make. Just ignore any criticisms and have a good laugh when those people make their own mistakes.:lol:
lassieinfife
04-Jan-08, 22:21
It is a well proven fact that so long as the first and last letter in each word are in right place you can read and understand what is written as the brain takes no notice of individual letters
DeHaviLand
04-Jan-08, 22:48
Paris, most people couldn't give a 4 X whether you can spell or your grammar is less than perfect so don't give it a second thought. I find your posts to be easily understood as I am sure most others do. A lot of people purporting to have a higher understanding of English grammar and spelling have neither and are just as prone to the same mistakes that others make. Just ignore any criticisms and have a good laugh when those people make their own mistakes.:lol:
Eh? If someone cant spell, how do they know when someone else makes a mistake?:roll:
Eh? If someone cant spell, how do they know when someone else makes a mistake?:roll: Here's the scenario, someone gets pulled up for a spelling or grammatical error on C.org. The person that was pulled up can spell quite a few words correctly but others they may have trouble with. Somewhere down the line the person that pulled them up makes a mistake with the spelling of a word. The person that was pulled up the first time knows how to spell this word correctly so pulls their detractor up for their mistake and nah, nah, nahnah, nah.:p
well i cant spell and am thankful for word with its spell check spec when im doing ma essays for ma svq's;)
DeHaviLand
04-Jan-08, 23:12
nah, nah, nahnah, nah.:p
Sorry, spell chequer didn't recognise this. :eek:
well i cant spell and am thankful for word with its spell check spec when im doing ma essays for ma svq's;)I hate spell-checkers showing me that I have made an error when I know for a fact that I have not, the one on C.org does this. It seems to use the American standard English instead of the U.K standard. Minor irritation but it does make you question yourself.
Does it make sense for us to teach children Grammar and Spelling, only to later tell them it doesn't matter one little bit?
of course it matters but were not all perfect and mistakes in grammer are an everyday occurence
Sorry, spell chequer didn't recognise this.Are you setting me up to correct you on chequer?:D I was just about to break into the song Nah, Nahnah, nah, nah, nahnah, nah, Hey, Hey, hey, Goodbye by Steam.[lol]
Does it make sense for us to teach children Grammar and Spelling, only to later tell them it doesn't matter one little bit?Of course it makes sense but remember that not everyone is going to leave school with a firm grasp of spelling or grammar but they can still get on with their lives and have no need to be harassed.
orkneylass
04-Jan-08, 23:59
Why is giving someone the gift of knowledge by correcting them when they are wrong, now called harrassment?
ywindythesecond
05-Jan-08, 00:09
Trouble Spelling Paris?????.......................never noticed 'at afore, were you not one of the origional .Org witches, they never heeded or needed to if they spelt badly
Couldn't help myself.
Why is giving someone the gift of knowledge by correcting them when they are wrong, now called harrassment?Puleeeeeeeeeeeeeeeze, as I have said already, not everyone leaves school with a firm grasp of spelling or grammar. It is harassing people because they have left school knowing that their grammar or spelling isn't the best but they have got on with their lives and don't need some supposed 'know it all' correcting them at every opportunity.
dont worry were all tongue tied at sum time lol:lol:
orkneylass
05-Jan-08, 10:52
Puleeeeeeeeeeeeeeeze, as I have said already, not everyone leaves school with a firm grasp of spelling or grammar. It is harassing people because they have left school knowing that their grammar or spelling isn't the best but they have got on with their lives and don't need some supposed 'know it all' correcting them at every opportunity.
So what you are saying is that after school, there is no possibility of learning and improving your grasp of any subject including use of english? That when you realise that you have made a mistake, you have no desire to learn and to avoid that mistake in future? Oh dearie me! I learn new things every day, but do not have a chip on my shoulder because I did not know each thing sooner, nor do I deliberately pretend not to have learned!!!!
Totally agree with Orkneylass. Where is the satisfaction in knowing that you could improve something you use ever day but refuse to do so because - well I don't know why? connieb has the right attitude. Just because you have left school with less than perfect spelling/grammar, that's no reason to give up. We can all learn new things all the time and isn't it better to learn how to do something well than accept doing it badly? What is this "I can't spell and I'm proud of it" ?
Looking at connie's post - can't see anything wrong with the spelling. Maybe the punctuation isn't perfect. Seems to be the worst spellers who are least willing to learn.
Puleeeeeeeeeeeeeeeze, as I have said already, not everyone leaves school with a firm grasp of spelling or grammar. It is harassing people because they have left school knowing that their grammar or spelling isn't the best but they have got on with their lives and don't need some supposed 'know it all' correcting them at every opportunity.
Don't you think that's rather a negative, defeatist attitude, TBH? Lots of people continue to learn after they're left school. Since we can mostly expect to live into our 80s, that's a long time to just give up on!
It takes a good deal of courage for folk to admit they have a problem with literacy or numeracy, which could be affecting their working and personal lives ....and to do something about it.
I've known people who've only reached this point when their children have starting asking for help with their homework - that provides the motivation they've needed.
I really admire anybody who makes an effort to improve their spelling or grammar, just the same as I admire anybody who's willing to improve any other skill. :)
orkneylass
05-Jan-08, 12:03
Thanks Badger - I learn things every day from people that know a lot more than I do about them, and I am woefully ignorant on any number of subjects - but I don't regard those who are better educated than me as snobs, as a threat to my sense of self, as bullying etc. That makes no sense to me at all.
spelling??! some people cant even speak right,and when they do it comes out in a shower of saliva. maybe they should correct their own mistakes before correcting others.
Couldn't help myself.
Never said I could spell either, but if thats gives you a laugh, then carry on[lol]
Margaret M.
05-Jan-08, 14:58
So what you are saying is that after school, there is no possibility of learning and improving your grasp of any subject including use of english? That when you realise that you have made a mistake, you have no desire to learn and to avoid that mistake in future? Oh dearie me! I learn new things every day, but do not have a chip on my shoulder because I did not know each thing sooner, nor do I deliberately pretend not to have learned!!!!
Pretty much sums up how I feel. I would rather know that I am making a mistake than to keep repeating it.
I think some of the hard feelings about spelling and grammar mistakes on these boards may come from the manner in which the mistake was highlighted. If it is pointed out, it needs to be done kindly.
Interesting answers considering some of the things that were said in the "dialect" thread...
orkneylass
05-Jan-08, 15:31
Interesting answers considering some of the things that were said in the "dialect" thread...
Indeed, but dialect is one thing, incorrect english is another. In most situations folk who talk in dialect would still recognise that they are expected to be able to write in standard, correct english - in a job application, school essay or work report for instance. I have just finished reading Bill Duncan's "Smiling School for Calvinists" which is a selection of stories about Dundee. Some are written in dialect and some are not. If BIll can do that so can anyone.
Can't see what all the fuss over spelling is myself.
If some people want to spend the rest of their lives learning/improving their English spelling, grammar and punctuation, then good for them...........but allow others who don't give a toss their right not to be harassed.
As far as I'm concerned, the day all of my grandchildren come home from school and show me that their teachers are ace at English grammar, spelling and punctuation..that is the day I'll start worrying about how people on forums express themselves.
Can't see what all the fuss over spelling is myself.
If some people want to spend the rest of their lives learning/improving their English spelling, grammar and punctuation, then good for them...........but allow others who don't give a toss their right not to be harassed.
As far as I'm concerned, the day all of my grandchildren come home from school and show me that their teachers are ace at English grammar, spelling and punctuation..that is the day I'll start worrying about how people on forums express themselves.
Well said Oddquine jan x
orkneylass
05-Jan-08, 16:32
But you touch on an important point....how can children be encouraged and supported to learn correct spelling and grammar if the message they get from some people is that it does not matter...ie, education does not matter....and if you feel harrassed by people correcting your mistakes on the org, maybe that is your problem..there are others who have stated that they appreciate the opportunity to learn.
So what you are saying is that after school, there is no possibility of learning and improving your grasp of any subject including use of english? That when you realise that you have made a mistake, you have no desire to learn and to avoid that mistake in future? Oh dearie me! I learn new things every day, but do not have a chip on my shoulder because I did not know each thing sooner, nor do I deliberately pretend not to have learned!!!!
Don't you think that's rather a negative, defeatist attitude, TBH? Lots of people continue to learn after they're left school. Since we can mostly expect to live into our 80s, that's a long time to just give up on!
It takes a good deal of courage for folk to admit they have a problem with literacy or numeracy, which could be affecting their working and personal lives ....and to do something about it.
I've known people who've only reached this point when their children have starting asking for help with their homework - that provides the motivation they've needed.
I really admire anybody who makes an effort to improve their spelling or grammar, just the same as I admire anybody who's willing to improve any other skill. :)
Thanks Badger - I learn things every day from people that know a lot more than I do about them, and I am woefully ignorant on any number of subjects - but I don't regard those who are better educated than me as snobs, as a threat to my sense of self, as bullying etc. That makes no sense to me at all.
Pretty much sums up how I feel. I would rather know that I am making a mistake than to keep repeating it.
I think some of the hard feelings about spelling and grammar mistakes on these boards may come from the manner in which the mistake was highlighted. If it is pointed out, it needs to be done kindly.
No, I am not saying that there is no possibility of learning after your school years have finished, that would be rather silly and I don't remember typing that. Everybody keeps learning after school, that's the beauty of the human mind. Again, I didn't state that people that didn't do well in English lessons at school have a chip on their shoulder. Deliberately pretending to not have learned, who does this and why? Having a desire to learn is fine by me and if someone asked for my help with their spelling or grammar then I would be glad to help them as much as I can but I wouldn't make a point of correcting peoples errors on a message board.
As I said......I think it is more important for children to have teachers who have learned enough basic English themselves so they can impart it to their pupils.
I am quite sure that there are a few people on many forums all over the world who are delighted to be pulled up for mistakes.............but I am sure from their responses you will know who they are.......and equally will know, and not correct, those who don't give a damn.
To correct those who have made it plain they do not appreciate it is harassment.
And the message being sent to children from here is that it doesn't matter if you spell as you speak on forums as long as you can be understood...or don't mind not being read.
And I think that is a better message than saying that every post has to be written in perfect English......because this obsession with English usage which flares up in many threads will make people think twice about joining if they have to write only perfect English on here for fear of an officious orger jumping in to show how clever they are by disparaging your posts.................and putting you off posting ever again.
Do you speak perfect English when talking to your friends?
But you touch on an important point....how can children be encouraged and supported to learn correct spelling and grammar if the message they get from some people is that it does not matter...ie, education does not matter....and if you feel harrassed by people correcting your mistakes on the org, maybe that is your problem..there are others who have stated that they appreciate the opportunity to learn.You can encourage children to learn a subject but you cannot force that information into them, some children excel in English spelling and grammar some just one or the other and some at neither. I reckon some posters on here get a kick out of pointing out other peoples errors, maybe that's their problem.
orkneylass
05-Jan-08, 20:23
You can encourage children to learn a subject but you cannot force that information into them, some children excel in English spelling and grammar some just one or the other and some at neither. I reckon some posters on here get a kick out of pointing out other peoples errors, maybe that's their problem.
But my point was that you can discourage them....
I wouldn't point out anyone's mistakes on here or in conversation - because I think it's rude - unless it was someone I knew well enough to joke about it, so maybe just a slip rather than ignorance. I've had other people point out my mistakes and have been glad to learn from it. One reason the use of the word less instead of fewer always registers is because I did it once and was reproved in shocked tones by a colleague. I've never done it again.
What bothers me about these spelling threads is the attitude that some people simply don't care and have no ambition to improve. Why wouldn't you want to do anything better? What is the point of doing anything if you don't do it as well as possible? The odd slip is one thing but deliberate carelessness is another.
I wouldn't point out anyone's mistakes on here or in conversation - because I think it's rude - unless it was someone I knew well enough to joke about it, so maybe just a slip rather than ignorance. I've had other people point out my mistakes and have been glad to learn from it. One reason the use of the word less instead of fewer always registers is because I did it once and was reproved in shocked tones by a colleague. I've never done it again. We agree that it is just being rude if you don't know someone well enough to gauge their reaction.:D
What bothers me about these spelling threads is the attitude that some people simply don't care and have no ambition to improve. Why wouldn't you want to do anything better? What is the point of doing anything if you don't do it as well as possible? The odd slip is one thing but deliberate carelessness is another.Maybe some are deliberately yanking your chain and getting a result?
But my point was that you can discourage them....Trying to make people look bad on a message-board is not exactly encouragement either, not that I am accusing you of that but it does happen and people don't appreciate it.
As far as forums go, you can write it any way that you wish. IF it is incorrect, then you should expect that some people MIGHT point this out. What you make of that is your own choice.
In the real world, the way that you put yourself across in the written form can be vitally important. Like it or not, employers and other people will almost always base their first impression of you on the way you communicate in writing. I recall a documentary years ago, where the prospective employer rejected EVERY application containing any spelling mistake(s). That may seem harsh, but his logic was that any applicant who could not bother to check their spelling for something as important as a job application, would be unlikely to put their mind to the position once they were employed. It is a simple fact that well presented CVs and letters lead to interviews and well spoken interviewees are successful in obtaining jobs. Those are skills I am keen for my children to embrace and I correct them when I think it appropriate.
I have lost count of the number of people who use the word "Pacific", when they should be saying "specific". I never correct them for fear of it being taken the wrong way but wonder where and when they might realise the word is utterly incorrect. It brings to mind a rant that a middle-aged man aimed at Thurso Technical College staff. It went "Hey, I am paying good money to be "teached" in this College, I want better service". If that statement "taught" me anything, it was that the guy had a very valid point!!
Specific? Pacific?, a drop in the Ocean for some but we should Sea our way clear to letting our kids aim high.
As far as forums go, you can write it any way that you wish. IF it is incorrect, then you should expect that some people MIGHT point this out.
Why should we expect it.......... because there are some people who think it makes them look clever to pull other people up? Do they realise how arrogant they appear?
Because, imo, the only reason for anyone to comment to anyone else about spelling, grammar and/or punctuation is to show that you think yourself more intelligent than them.
After all...if they are bothered about their spelling, there is a spell checker..and if they are using firefox it will highlight spellies if you let it do that.
And if they are not..just what has it to do with anybody else?
j4bberw0ck
06-Jan-08, 01:06
Some people can't drive (http://forum.caithness.org/go.php?url=http://forum.caithness.org/go.php?url=http://forum.caithness.org/go.php?url=http://forum.caithness.org/showthread.php?t=38860); wise orgers decree they should be banned from driving / removed from the roads.
Some people can't spell (http://forum.caithness.org/go.php?url=http://forum.caithness.org/go.php?url=http://forum.caithness.org/showthread.php?t=38861). Perhaps they should be banned from forums? Woops, sorry..... :lol::lol:
Isn't it easy to condemn people who can't do something that we ourselves CAN do, paris?
But on the subject of whether it's important generally in the modern world to be able to spell and punctuate properly, here's a couple of thoughts:
1. If someone can't (and whether it's due to laziness, the education system or dyslexia is completely and utterly immaterial on any practical level) - there are hundreds of thousands of people out there who can, many of them from Eastern Europe and who speak excellent and technically correct English. They'll ALL be in the job queue ahead of those who can't.
2. Reverse snobbery ("I can't, so it doesn't matter, and anyone who thinks it does is just elitist") is not effective as a defence. No one cares, least of all me. And the mere fact that people can regard success in a subject as "elitist" tells you all you need to know about the state of the Stalinist, centrally-planned education system in the UK since the reforms of the 1960's and 70's.
3. Using textspeak other than on a mobile phone is just plainly moronic and I make no apology if that viewpoint offends anyone.
The original question's been by-passed, really. Should someone feel embarrassed about poor spelling? Yes or no, it's their choice. Personally I don't care how difficult they want a job search to be or how many howlers they put into a post.** Should someone be embarrassed about having dyslexia? No, they shouldn't, but I guess many will. That's a shame. But as it used to say on the t-shirts in the 1970's - "Excrement happens" - except the word for excrement had fewer letters. And dyslexia hasn't held back the determined, any more than, say, bitten fingernails or having only one eye.
**on a lighter note, a leaflet produced somewhere not a million miles away from the north easy of Scotland and talking about wildlife (for tourists) referred to seals "gambling" in the waves. The image of card games and roulette being played out by semi-aquatic mammals was quite amusing. And only yesterday I read a nicely-written piece by a prominent academic in which she described herself "pouring" over documents. The sub-editor hadn't picked it up either, because his / her spellcheck passed "poured" as acceptable and the grammar checker wasn't sophisticated enough to pick it up. Sorry. Did I say "sub-editor"? Silly me.....
Shame, really.
northener
06-Jan-08, 01:38
Well put, Jabs.
Bang on.
DeHaviLand
06-Jan-08, 02:00
Excellent post J4bberw0ck, but shouldn't "Woops" have an 'h' in it?:lol::lol:
Not necessarily. I would have missed out the "wubble U" and the "haitch" and just typed "Oops".
DeHaviLand
06-Jan-08, 02:11
Actually, my spell checker insists that "Woops" is missing a rats tail and a sprinkling of badgers belly button fluff :roll:
Because, imo, the only reason for anyone to comment to anyone else about spelling, grammar and/or punctuation is to show that you think yourself more intelligent than them.
A very negative view to take. Learning should be an ongoing process for us all, in as many fields as possible.
j4bberw0ck
06-Jan-08, 10:48
Thank you, Northener and DeHaviLand.
In my defence about "Woops!" I suppose I could claim that it isn't really a word so much as an expletive or perhaps an onomatopoeia, and therefore doesn't have a "proper" spelling as such. :Razz
Today I shall go and look for some driftwhood on the shore..... oh dammit...... whould anyone care to join me? Arrgghh..... Whee Whillie Whinkie.... nooooooo..........:lol:
Lolabelle
06-Jan-08, 11:07
I can't really remember learning grammer at school. My spelling is OK, but I usually get it muddled with the typing and don't check for typo's.
When I started writing my book, I went and got books on grammer so I could learn. I'm sure we must have studied grammer, but it didn't make much of an impression. :confused
brokencross
06-Jan-08, 11:30
I happen to think that spelling, grammar and the correct use of language is very important, but that is my choice.
What you aspire to be in life and the job, profession you choose, will be what dictates the importance to each individual.
When being used as a simple form of communication, bad spelling and grammar doesn't really matter, but in many walks of life it is crucial that all the "t's" are crossed and the "i's" dotted.
However I would never openly criticise another forum user for their misuse of grammar, spelling etc. Many of the mistakes are made because the poster is in a rush to get the post on the board or just writing colloquially.
Maybe we should read this-
"I cluod not blveiee taht I cluod aulaclty uesdnatnrd waht I was rdanieg. The phaonmneal pweor of the hmuan mnid. Aoccdrnig to a rscheearch sudty at Cmabrigde Uinervtisy, it deosn't mttaer in waht oredr the ltteers in a wrod are, the olny iprmoatnt tihng is taht the frist and lsat ltteer be in the rghit pclae. The rset can be a taotl mses and you can sitll raed it wouthit a porbelm. Tihs is bcuseae the huamn mnid deos not raed ervey lteter by istlef, but the wrod as a wlohe. Amzanig huh? Yaeh and I awlyas thgouht slpeling was ipmorantt."
So in theory you can misspell all you want and it can still be read and understood.
Actually, my spell checker insists that "Woops" is missing a rats tail and a sprinkling of badgers belly button fluff :roll:
Kindly don't make personal comments - the state of my belly button is private :eek:
Nobody is saying spelling etc isn't important (or should be) in the modern world. We all understand, though it is not always the case, that job applications, newspaper articles, official letters and the like should be written in immaculate English.
However, this thread is about the tendency of some people being unable to resist illustrating their grasp of the English language by remarking on the shortcomings in the posts of others...in forums, for the love of pete!
Get a life, people..........preen in private.......please!
A very negative view to take. Learning should be an ongoing process for us all, in as many fields as possible.
True...but by choice. I am quite sure that people can read a perfectly composed post and learn from it if they want.
Why should any passerby feel they have the right to tell them how to express themselves? :roll:
Nobody is saying spelling etc isn't important (or should be) in the modern world. We all understand, though it is not always the case, that job applications, newspaper articles, official letters and the like should be written in immaculate English.
However, this thread is about the tendency of some people being unable to resist illustrating their grasp of the English language by remarking on the shortcomings in the posts of others...in forums, for the love of pete!
Oddquine, I took Paris's OP to mean spelling in the world at large -I don't think it mentioned forums at all :confused, so my responses have indeed been about spelling in the modern world, and I dare say that's true of what other folk have posted too.
I never have, and never would, "ridicule" or criticise anyone's spelling -or grammar - on this or any other forum. Unasked for criticism -even if intended as constructive -could well be hurtful on a public forum. :(
I dont know about you but i have always had a problem with my spelling. Im not at all embarrassed by it but some people just have to ridicule others about it.( and you know who you are:p ) Surely if you understand what someone is saying then thats the way it is. Have you had a problem?? and do you get ridiculed about it ?? are you embarrassed :o. jan x
I read the ( and you know who you are) as being specifically aimed at those on this forum who are inclined to correct other people's spelling etc..........and have replied to the post in that vein.
I didn't read the post as a general comment on correcting English usage............perhaps because I have only ever seen it done on forums.
Perhaps paris could elucidate?
Metalattakk
06-Jan-08, 14:28
I read the ( and you know who you are) as being specifically aimed at those on this forum who are inclined to correct other people's spelling etc..........and have replied to the post in that vein.
Well, actually the original post was aimed directly at me, after I did indeed correct Paris' spelling in a PM sent to myself. I suspect it was simply an attempt to provoke me into an argument.
As Orkneylass, Badger and J4bberw0ck have said, spelling is crucial in the modern day, although maybe less crucial in the slovenly world of the internet forum.
I am heartened that there are at least others out there who value correct spelling and punctuation as highly as I do, yet somewhat disturbed by those who show no interest in improving their standards. As has been said, wearing their ignorance like a badge of honour isn't something to be proud of.
I am also heartened that Paris' original intent has backfired to a certain extent, and she will hopefully now realise that it isn't just me who values correct spelling.
Dont flatter yourself ! It is and was just a general post. jan x
To be honest...yes in everyday life spelling is important BUT not everybody can spell properly!We ALL make mistakes at times :roll: On a forum,I myself couldnt care about people's spelling,as long as we can get the jist of it does it really matter? IMO somebody correcting it for you, comes across as very ignorant and a bit pompous (and not to mention a bit sad that they feel the need to be the spelling and grammar police!) Its crazy that at times we stress out before posting for fear of being mocked for incorrect grammar and /or spelling! x
Metalattakk
06-Jan-08, 15:04
Oh-oh, here come the acolytes now.
I'm not going to enter into another argument with Paris though. That's what she wants, you know. ;)
[lol] Grow up ! As i have already stated it WAS and IS just a general post. I'm more adult than to start an argument over something so trivial. Sorry to disappoint you Metalattack ! jan x
Oh and by the way ive found spell check now . LOL :lol:
Metalattakk
06-Jan-08, 15:18
LOL!
*resists temptation*
Ok Ok confession time. I started this thread as a general question to see what peoples thoughts were and that's the truth of the matter.
I DO have an excuse as to why my spelling is worse on some days than others, i actually have fibromyalgia ( look it up ). Part of the illness is i forget things , spelling being one of them, then another day i may actually be fine.
Although it may well look to some that i have a problem with Metalattack, well i haven't from my part it was a friendly bit of banter.
So after that can we now get back to the original question. :roll: jan x
I DO have an excuse as to why my spelling is worse on some days than others, i actually have fibromyalgia ( look it up ). Part of the illness is i forget things , spelling being one of them, then another day i may actually be fine.
Jan, do please forgive me, I must admit I had forgotten about your fibro :( and I do sympathise, it must be extremely frustrating for you.
I'm a fibro sufferer as well, though improving at the moment. Fortunately for me, it doesn't seem to affect my spelling, but I do lose concentration very easily and I often find I've typed a word which is completely different from what I'd intended - wrong word, wrong meaning....!!
You have a perfectly valid reason (not just an excuse) for having difficulties with spelling and I think there's a world of difference between that and folk who can't be bothered making the effort to get it right.
Some days I'm sure people look at me in the street and wonder why I'm wobbling all over the place since I'm not old and I look perfectly healthy....an offer of help is always very welcome, but I would feel awful if they berated me for not doing better!
I have to preview every post...and even then I quite often just give up in frustration and don't post the darn thing.....:roll:
Hi Angela, You have nothing to be forgiven for, don't be silly. Yes its a sometimes this fibro, get mistaken for being drunk and all sorts, and i don't drink lol . Every post that's posted by me or others i have to double check just to get across what I'm trying to say with out it all looking gobeldygook.......Is that a word ha ha jan x
Oh-oh, here come the acolytes now.
I'm not going to enter into another argument with Paris though. That's what she wants, you know. ;)
Ermm, I am supposed to be the alterboy?I hate dresses :lol:x
To be honest...yes in everyday life spelling is important BUT not everybody can spell properly!We ALL make mistakes at times :roll: On a forum,I myself couldnt care about people's spelling,as long as we can get the jist of it does it really matter? IMO somebody correcting it for you, comes across as very ignorant and a bit pompous (and not to mention a bit sad that they feel the need to be the spelling and grammar police!) Its crazy that at times we stress out before posting for fear of being mocked for incorrect grammar and /or spelling! x
Hear, Hear!
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