View Full Version : Spittal Hill Wind Farm Claim-True or False
ywindythesecond
22-Dec-07, 14:26
This is an extract from the Spittal Hill Wind Farm website.
http://www.spittalwindfarm.co.uk/projectupdate.html (http://forum.caithness.org/go.php?url=http://www.spittalwindfarm.co.uk/projectupdate.html)
"The electricity needs of some 42,000 average households would be provided by the Windfarm."
PS This is what the poll question should say but the last word has been cut off.
NickInTheNorth
22-Dec-07, 14:57
This is an extract from the Spittal Hill Wind Farm website.
http://www.spittalwindfarm.co.uk/projectupdate.html (http://forum.caithness.org/go.php?url=http://forum.caithness.org/go.php?url=http://www.spittalwindfarm.co.uk/projectupdate.html)
"The electricity needs of some 42,000 average households would be provided by the Windfarm."
PS This is what the poll question should say but the last word has been cut off.
well unless there is some additional information you wish to share with us, or a suggesting that they are lying then yes it will.
Now why not explain why you do not believe it so that those of us less well informed can also second guess the information provided :D
well unless there is some additional information you wish to share with us, or a suggesting that they are lying then yes it will.
Yes, I am intrigued to know what that piece of information is as well.:confused
Mind you, this vote is a bit like ballotting the denizens of 16th century Milan about whether the Earth goes around the Sun. We will have the majority voting for god and the rest voting for what is blatantly obvious.
We have all these windmills yet my electric bill gets higher and higher?? Maybe I should get my own windmill in the garden [lol]
NickInTheNorth
22-Dec-07, 15:18
We have all these windmills yet my electric bill gets higher and higher?? Maybe I should get my own windmill in the garden [lol]
Could the increase in your bills have more to do with the ever increasing price of oil and gas, and less to do with the number of windmills?
I'm sure it does but who does the electric generated from these windmills actually benefit? Dumb question maybe but I must ask it :D
NickInTheNorth
22-Dec-07, 15:25
I'm sure it does but who does the electric generated from these windmills actually benefit? Dumb question maybe but I must ask it :D
Define benefit?
a) benefits the shareholders of the companies operating them
b) benefits everyone because for each unit of wind generated electricity a little less fossil fuels are used
c) if you choose you can benefit directly by signing up for a "renewables" electricity tariff - but it'll cost you more
I think you can choose to receive your electricity from a renewable source. However it costs more.
ok what I actually meant was who is using this energy and is it cheaper? honest the blonde genetic is shining through today :D
NickInTheNorth
22-Dec-07, 15:29
we're all using it, and no it costs more
ah ok Geo and nick thats pretty much what I was wondering. So they are saving the planet but making no difference to my pocket.
I thought these figures (42,000 homes) were based on 'installed capacity'? if that's so does it not mean that that's the result if the turbines blades spin at maximum efficiency? (seem to remember for the last week we've had a High sitting above us). According to the Department of Trade and Industry (DTI), the average load factor for onshore wind turbines in the UK was 24.1%. Not exactly Installed Capacity is it?. So if no wind; Conventional Power Stations take up the slack anyway.
I see that the 36-turbine Gallow Rig windfarm in Dumfriesshire, which would produce "enough power for around 18,000 homes", was rudely shattered when, thanks to the Renewable Energy Foundation's website, we can now see that claims such as this exaggerated Gallow Rig's output by about 400 per cent.!
Co2? Foundations are filled with masses of concrete; Cement plants and factories across the world are projected to churn out almost 5bn tonnes of carbon dioxide annually by 2050 - 20 times as much as the government has pledged the entire UK will produce by that time. Disturb the bogs and moors how much CO2 is released?
Lewis Windfarm will provide £3,000,000 rent each year - where exactly does that money come from? Turbines don't seem to be providing cheap power if the developers are giving it from their income.. Seems the only ones who gain from these on-shore wind factories are the landowners and the developers?
Bring on nuclear power! Co2 free too!
I wonder if right now you are reading this with you PC powered by Nuclear Power - shipped over via the Interconector from France's power stations and up through the National Grid? - now there's a thought..
Green_not_greed
22-Dec-07, 16:26
To me the question isn't clear enough. Should it be
Can the electricity needs of some 42,000 average households be provided solely by the Windfarm?
GNG
From what I have heard on windpower our electricity bills will be getting higher ...
Nuclear power works out at 3p p/kWh
Gas is 3.5p p/kWh
Offshore wind power is 7.5p p/kWh
Onshore wind works out at 5.4 p p/kWh
So all round it looks like more expensive bills even though wind is 'free'....
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/help/3681938.stm
NickInTheNorth
22-Dec-07, 16:41
From what I have heard on windpower our electricity bills will be getting higher ...
Nuclear power works out at 3p p/kWh
Gas is 3.5p p/kWh
Offshore wind power is 7.5p p/kWh
Onshore wind works out at 5.4 p p/kWh
So all round it looks like more expensive bills even though wind is 'free'....
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/help/3681938.stm (http://forum.caithness.org/go.php?url=http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/help/3681938.stm)
Not that I have a problem with nuclear, but does the 3p p/kWh include the decommissioning costs and ongoing costs of storage of spent fuel etc?
"The electricity needs of some 42,000 average households would be provided by the Windfarm."
Is this claim based on when the wind's blowing? Or is it averaged out over the year?
Anyway, so what? The claim made for the Causewaymire windfarm is that it will supply 28,500 homes. Adding Spittal's claim gives a total of 74,500 homes being supplied. The 2001 census revealed Caithness to have 10,870 households. So obviously we'll be supplying the south - I thought the idea was to generate electrickery as close to where it was consumed as possible.
NickInTheNorth
22-Dec-07, 16:54
so each county now should just generate it's own power requirements?
[QUOTE=bekisman;313299]I thought these figures (42,000 homes) were based on 'installed capacity'? if that's so does it not mean that that's the result if the turbines blades spin at maximum efficiency? (seem to remember for the last week we've had a High sitting above us).
Noticed the other day, that, although there was a light breeze, the Houstry turbines were all stilled. Low temeratures/ice???? Not much use to anyone when they have to shut down for cold conditions in winter.
As I've said (twice !) in the other thread, the word some is in the wrong place.
Agreed Tilter (see other thread again).
NickInTheNorth
22-Dec-07, 17:05
As I've said (twice !) in the other thread, the word some is in the wrong place.
Agreed Tilter (see other thread again).
Perhaps you would be happier if it said "can provide one third of the electricity requirements of 126,000 average homes" (and even that would presuppose that it runs at either zero or 100% capacity for exactly one third of the time) and further that all power from there was carried miraculously to just 126,000 homes that required the exact amount of power available at that time.
the claims a statistical averages. Splitting hairs is something best carried out in private, not on public forums.
The figure of 42,000 house is given as an illustration of the impact that the power generated might have vis-a-vis conventional generation
ywindythesecond
22-Dec-07, 19:15
This is an extract from the Spittal Hill Wind Farm website.
http://www.spittalwindfarm.co.uk/projectupdate.html (http://forum.caithness.org/go.php?url=http://forum.caithness.org/go.php?url=http://forum.caithness.org/go.php?url=http://www.spittalwindfarm.co.uk/projectupdate.html)
"The electricity needs of some 42,000 average households would be provided by the Windfarm."
PS This is what the poll question should say but the last word has been cut off.
Does anyone know how I can fix the question to include the word "farm"? It wouldn't edit when I tried.
ywy2
GnG See above.
Badger
This was cut and pasted from Spittal Windfarm website.
Back to the question. Posters on this thread are aware of wind generation issues. Most people are not. A person reading "The electricity needs of some 42,000 average households would be provided by the Windfarm," would immediately think it a great idea. And probably sign a petition on the strength of it.
No windfarm can supply the electricity needs of any household.
NickInTheNorth
22-Dec-07, 19:19
No windfarm can supply the electricity needs of any household.
Then how did I live in a house for three years that had no other source of electricity but wind power :lol:
ywindythesecond
22-Dec-07, 19:32
Then how did I live in a house for three years that had no other source of electricity but wind power :lol:
I don't know Nickitn but please explain. Where was this? And when?
ywy2
NickInTheNorth
22-Dec-07, 19:37
It was in Scotland, between July 2001 January 2005
Nickinthenorth: "Then how did I live in a house for three years that had no other source of electricity but wind power"
Well my 'needs' are an electric shower 9kw, an electric washing machine, and electric tumble dryer, an Electric Cooker, toaster, microwave, PC, for a start, so come on nickinthenorth, list the electrical items you used for three years and which were powered by nothing more than wind power (I take it you are referring to a wind generator or turbine and not that you lived near a wind farm - as that goes into the national grid and your supply would be a mixture of conventional/nuclear power)
NickInTheNorth
22-Dec-07, 19:51
No windfarm can supply the electricity needs of any household.
Well my 'needs' are an electric shower 9kw, an electric washing machine, and electric tumble dryer, an Electric Cooker, toaster, microwave, PC, for a start, so come on nickinthenorth, list the electrical items you used for three years and which were powered by nothing more than wind power (I take it you are referring to a wind generator or turbine and not that you lived near a wind farm - as that goes into the national grid and your supply would be a mixture of conventional/nuclear power)
Please read the above quote.
I simply stated that windpower can supply the needs of at least one household. I can state it as a matter of fact because it did for me. I also know of other people of whom the same is true.
My needs where probably different to yours, but I do not need to itemise my life for your approval, and to quibble about what I also needed that is not listed.
And no, no national grid supply, just a couple of turbines providing for my needs.
nickinthenorth: "I simply stated that windpower can supply the needs of at least one household. I can state it as a matter of fact because it did for me. I also know of other people of whom the same is true. My needs where probably different to yours, but I do not need to itemise my life for your approval, and to quibble about what I also needed that is not listed. And no, no national grid supply, just a couple of turbines providing for my needs"
Fair enough if you are not willing to answer a simple enough question, just tell us what power output these 'couple of turbines' gave?
Does anyone know how I can fix the question to include the word "farm"? It wouldn't edit when I tried.
ywy2.
The poll title is too long. You are only allowed certain number of characters in the title. Try replacing "electricity" with "power"?
ywindythesecond
22-Dec-07, 20:20
The poll title is too long. You are only allowed certain number of characters in the title. Try replacing "electricity" with "power"?
Thanks MadPict
The words are not mine, they are taken directly from the SHWF website.
Bobinovich is fixing it for me and it will read
The electricity needs of some 42,000 ...households would be provided by the Windfarm
give or take a dot or two.
ywy2
From the Spittal Hill website link: "will save in the region of 170,000 tons of carbon dioxide" - why oh why do this windfarm promoters always say "will save x number tons of CO2" - when every single time they compare to smoky old coal-fired power stations.
Up here in Scotland most of our power is produced by Hydro (nil CO2) and nuclear (nil CO2) bit of a waffle that.. of course vested interests; Is it 30 turbines? is that £7,000 rent the owners get per turbine? plus a % of the electricity generated? Hmm not bad; quarter of a million quid each year..
I'm not good at sums but this wind factory states it will provide the power needs for 42,000 homes, it will give out 75megawatts (that's assuming it's whizzing around at full speed 100% of the time) it won't - it's about 25% (DTI) so that's; 19megawatts. Below are the 'average' kw needs for a home.. interesting eh?
1. Working Couple - 4,117 kWh electricity
2. Single Person - 3,084 kWh electricity
3. Family with two children - 5,480 kWh electricity
(Parents working, children at school)
"The electricity needs of some 42,000 average households would be provided by the Windfarm."
Fine and dandy if true, as are Nick ITN's turbines, but then that only accounts for 25% of energy usage. What about the 75% oil and gas we consume?
Yeah yeah we have to start somewhere, but nothing we do is going to be more than a sticking plaster unless the whole world changes its ways and that won't happen. All too gloomy to even contemplate so I'm off to get another mince pie.
Then how did I live in a house for three years that had no other source of electricity but wind power :lol:
It depends on where you live and how that power was delivered. If the wind power was classed as embedded generation then it could have been the only source of power to your house. It is just one of the many advantages of wind power.
I'm not good at sums but this wind factory states it will provide the power needs for 42,000 homes, it will give out 75megawatts (that's assuming it's whizzing around at full speed 100% of the time) it won't - it's about 25% (DTI) so that's; 19megawatts. Below are the 'average' kw needs for a home.. interesting eh?
1. Working Couple - 4,117 kWh electricity
2. Single Person - 3,084 kWh electricity
3. Family with two children - 5,480 kWh electricity
(Parents working, children at school)
Incorrect.
The total domestic useage of electricity in the UK is 116TWh (See Energy in Brief 2007), which means an average home is an energy unit of 4700kWh.
So that means that the 42,000 homes includes the 30% inefficiency rate.
On the days that the windfarm is producing electricity at maximum output then the Spittal Hill windfarm will produce energy for 140,000 homes.
re; nickinthenorth "Fair enough if you are not willing to answer a simple enough question, just tell us what power output these 'couple of turbines' gave?"
Any chance? was it a torpedo inverter / batteries set up?
NickInTheNorth
22-Dec-07, 21:41
re; nickinthenorth "Fair enough if you are not willing to answer a simple enough question, just tell us what power output these 'couple of turbines' gave?"
Any chance? was it a torpedo inverter / batteries set up?
My maximum power allowance was 2.2kw
ywindythesecond
22-Dec-07, 21:47
My maximum power allowance was 2.2kw
Seems to me Nick that you are taking notanswer lessons from Reggy. If you can't or won't back up what you say, just don't say it.
ywy2
NickInTheNorth
22-Dec-07, 21:55
Seems to me Nick that you are taking notanswer lessons from Reggy. If you can't or won't back up what you say, just don't say it.
ywy2
seems to me that back in post 21 you posted something that was factually incorrect.
In post 22 I stated the simple fact that windpower can provide all the electricity for a household. The only electricity I had to use for 3 years came from windpower. The maximum power I could use was 2.2kw. That was when the wind blew.
I was free to charge batteries from that 2.2kw if I chose, but there was nothing else. Quite happily lived with that.
I do not have to itemise my life for you or anyone else.
Nickinthenorth: "the simple fact that windpower can provide all the electricity for a household. The only electricity I had to use for 3 years came from windpower. The maximum power I could use was 2.2kw. That was when the wind blew."
'All the power for a household'?! Hmm, well I like my clothes washed in a machine (and not only when the wind blows) I like a nice refreshing shower and, as it's a bungalow no 'head' for stored water so it's an instantaneous unit.
We have a stand-by generator of 2.5kw and when it has to be used, we can run the lights, the central heating pumps, the TV, can't boil a 3kw kettle, or shower or wash clothes.. so really unless you're happy with just the very basics; good luck to you. (re CO2; In my own mitigation I don't do Muirburn and I don't burn the Peats)
I see that the 36-turbine Gallow Rig windfarm in Dumfriesshire, which would produce "enough power for around 18,000 homes", was rudely shattered when, thanks to the Renewable Energy Foundation's website, we can now see that claims such as this exaggerated Gallow Rig's output by about 400 per cent.!
What's the difference between the Spittal turbines and Gallow Rig?
I see that the 36-turbine Gallow Rig windfarm in Dumfriesshire, which would produce "enough power for around 18,000 homes", was rudely shattered when, thanks to the Renewable Energy Foundation's website, we can now see that claims such as this exaggerated Gallow Rig's output by about 400 per cent.!
What's the difference between the Spittal turbines and Gallow Rig?
Could you back up your statement about the Gallow Rig windfarm? Please be careful not to confuse units of power (kW) with units of energy (kWh).
in haste;
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2007/07/22/nbook122.xml (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2007/07/22/nbook122.xml)
I see that the 36-turbine Gallow Rig windfarm in Dumfriesshire, which would produce "enough power for around 18,000 homes", was rudely shattered when, thanks to the Renewable Energy Foundation's website, we can now see that claims such as this exaggerated Gallow Rig's output by about 400 per cent.!
What's the difference between the Spittal turbines and Gallow Rig?
More misinformation.
The Gallow Rig is a 18 turbine site, rated at 10.8MW in total. I would find it very hard to believe that the developer would get that wrong. Is your source an anti wind farm blog?:confused
in haste;
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2007/07/22/nbook122.xml (http://forum.caithness.org/go.php?url=http://forum.caithness.org/go.php?url=http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2007/07/22/nbook122.xml)
I was more looking for data about the output and installed capacity rather than a link to an essay that does not substantiate any of its' claims.
The same essay states that:"...because wind only blows on average for a quarter of the time."
No further comment required on this or is there?
luskentyre
23-Dec-07, 14:54
Dumb question. I wouldn't imagine many posters are suitably qualified to dispute such a claim - anything else is merely conjecture. You might as well ask the cat.
Watch out for the next exciting poll, "In the UK alone there are 1578 turbines, with a total installed capacity of 1090MW - true or false?".
If you doubt such claims by the developers then just say so, instead of masquerading behind a pointless poll.
Rh: "More misinformation. The Gallow Rig is a 18 turbine site, rated at 10.8MW in total. I would find it very hard to believe that the developer would get that wrong. Is your source an anti wind farm blog"
Nope, sorry to disappoint, but got it from a PRO-wind site; 'yes2wind': Gallow Rig ( Windy Standard);Turbines: 36.
Rambler: "I was more looking for data about the output and installed capacity rather than a link to an essay that does not substantiate any of its' claims. The same essay states that:"...because wind only blows on average for a quarter of the time." No further comment required on this or is there?"
Vestas 600kw turbines The annual figures show a range from 16.4% to 31% in the actual output (Load Factor) as a percentage of the theoretical output.(installed capacity) is that because there 'aint much wind at times?..
So where does the power come from to replace wind power when it stops? (basically the French!) BUT lets build more gas fired stations to be on standby when the wind fluctuates. Distinguished Engineer:Sir Alec (Lord Broers): "The view of wind power is over-optimistic — that we can get to 20 per cent renewable energy by 2020 and that it will be as straightforward as that. Some forms may be far more expensive than we think they are.. all of these energy sources should carry the costs of their overheads with them. If you have wind power, you have to have back-up from gas generation, for when there is not enough wind, and the cost of those plants has to be added to the cost of wind power". “We can’t just put up wind turbines and generate a lot of electricity for free. We will need to redesign the grid, set up reserves for when the wind isn’t blowing strongly enough, learn how to store power.”
Personally I think wind turbines can be of use; out at sea and not ruining the landscape, the one's off Lybster are an example, I just dislike intensely the waffle of landowners who wish to put up a windfarm on their land 'to save the planet/for their grandchildren' whilst continuing to muirburn - the £ signs cloud their vision and not giving a toss for their near neighbours..
The fatal flaw is intermittency, arising from the simple fact that the wind only blows some of the time. Wind turbines only start to operate when the windspeed reaches 18km/hour (5 metres/sec, moderate breeze, force 4), and have to be switched off when it reaches about 85 km/hour(23 metres /sec, storm force 10). Between these limits a turbine's output varies according to the windspeed turn. Average wind speeds in the UK vary between around 5 and 10 metres/sec. according to location and height above sea level.
I thought the SNP were looking to wave/tide flow in the Pentland - now that's a good idea..
I have no idea whether Spittal Hill windfarm will provide the needs of 42000 households or not. It is a claim that is, as far as I am concerned, irrelevant. To cover this wonderful county with these eyesores could never be justified however many homes they would potentially supply with their intermittent output. Spittal Hill is the wrong place for a thirty turbine windfarm - the reasons are numerous and the reason for the proposal is based solely on the desire to make mega bucks out of a ridiculous system that allows us taxpayers to foot the bill. Windfarms do nothing to ease fuel poverty and that is one of the biggest injustices of the whole crazy 'ROCs world'.
NickInTheNorth
23-Dec-07, 18:54
the reasons are numerous and the reason for the proposal is based solely on the desire to make mega bucks out of a ridiculous system that allows us taxpayers to foot the bill. Windfarms do nothing to ease fuel poverty and that is one of the biggest injustices of the whole crazy 'ROCs world'.
Cannot disagree with any of the selected quote I used!
Rh: "More misinformation. The Gallow Rig is a 18 turbine site, rated at 10.8MW in total. I would find it very hard to believe that the developer would get that wrong. Is your source an anti wind farm blog"
Nope, sorry to disappoint, but got it from a PRO-wind site; 'yes2wind': Gallow Rig ( Windy Standard);Turbines: 36.
I have looked on the Yes2wind website and I can't find anything relating to Gallow Rig. Have you got a link that can substantiate your claim?
BTW Why would it disappoint me if that reference came from a Pro-wind website?
Could we have a temporary truce, seems a shame to carry on fighting over Christmas? Peace and goodwill to all (at least for a day or two :) ).
This is getting tedious..
Rheghead; "have looked on the Yes2wind website and I can't find anything relating to Gallow Rig. Have you got a link that can substantiate your claim?"
First this: http://www.yes2wind.com/nonflash_region.php?Region=Southern+Scotland (http://forum.caithness.org/go.php?url=http://www.yes2wind.com/nonflash_region.php?Region=Southern+Scotland) down to 'Windy Standard' and click.. (Windy Standard IS Gallow Rig Polwhat Rig) http://www.berr.gov.uk/files/file17785.pdf (http://forum.caithness.org/go.php?url=http://www.berr.gov.uk/files/file17785.pdf)
http://www.yes2wind.com/nonflash_details.php?Region=Southern+Scotland&SiteId=246 (http://forum.caithness.org/go.php?url=http://www.yes2wind.com/nonflash_details.php?Region=Southern+Scotland&SiteId=246) (extension)
"BTW Why would it disappoint me if that reference came from a Pro-wind website?"
Considering that your comment: "Is your source an anti wind farm blog?" I think it is perfectly reasonable to retort such, you are obviously pro-wind; "one of the many advantages of wind power"...
Are YOU happy that Caithness has/will have wind farms?
This is getting tedious..
Rheghead; "have looked on the Yes2wind website and I can't find anything relating to Gallow Rig. Have you got a link that can substantiate your claim?"
First this: http://www.yes2wind.com/nonflash_region.php?Region=Southern+Scotland (http://forum.caithness.org/go.php?url=http://www.yes2wind.com/nonflash_region.php?Region=Southern+Scotland) down to 'Windy Standard' and click.. (Windy Standard IS Gallow Rig Polwhat Rig) http://www.berr.gov.uk/files/file17785.pdf (http://forum.caithness.org/go.php?url=http://www.berr.gov.uk/files/file17785.pdf)
http://www.yes2wind.com/nonflash_details.php?Region=Southern+Scotland&SiteId=246 (http://forum.caithness.org/go.php?url=http://www.yes2wind.com/nonflash_details.php?Region=Southern+Scotland&SiteId=246) (extension)
Thanks for clearing that up. But one thing that puzzles me is that I can 't find any reference to the developer making any such claim that Gallorig will produce enough energy for 18,000 homes, except an enthusiastic BBC reporter. Based on the rating, the whole 36 turbine site will produce enough energy for 12,000 homes. So I still think you haven't proven that the wind energy industry are making falsified claims about turbine performance. And certainly the claim that 18000 homes is 400 percent untrue is total misinformation.
Considering that your comment: "Is your source an anti wind farm blog?" I think it is perfectly reasonable to retort such, you are obviously pro-wind; ...
Are YOU happy that Caithness has/will have wind farms?
I am pro-truth, not pro-lies. I don't like the look of windfarms but I accept that they will play a vital part in our transformation to a low carbon economy.
Rheghead; "..in our transformation to a low carbon economy."
At 134 posts each and every month for the last 3 years I think your own carbon footprint could be reduced with a wee bit less use of the old PC maybe?
Anyway - have a good festive season Rheghead.. (I think we agree on quite a few things, let's agree to disagree on this particular thread?)
Green_not_greed
24-Dec-07, 21:46
I don't like the look of windfarms but I accept that they will play a vital part in our transformation to a low carbon economy.
Would the one who has preached and preached on the need for a low carbon economy agree that those preaching in this manner should be setting an example by travelling using public transport, bicycles or small, fuel-efficient vehicles?
Would the one who has preached and preached on the need for a low carbon economy agree that those preaching in this manner should be setting an example by travelling using public transport, bicycles or small, fuel-efficient vehicles?
Yes I would agree about that, pending good public transport links. More over, I would agree that they should live in low carbon cost housing as well and use renewable energy to heat their home and also pass a heating assessment by a local renewable energy group and that they have installed an extra 6 inches of loft insulation as well.
Green_not_greed
24-Dec-07, 23:06
So tell us, o preacher, what type of vehicle do you drive?
So tell us, o preacher, what type of vehicle do you drive?
Off topic. It is totally irrelevent to the thread what type of vehicle I use.
Green_not_greed
24-Dec-07, 23:45
Off topic. It is totally irrelevent to the thread what type of vehicle I use.
Its not off topic. You were the one who preached about a low carbon economy. And then agreed that those preaching the message should be setting an example by using public transport, bicycles and small-engined, fuel-efficient vehicles. So what type of vehicle do you drive? Be honest, now......you also claimed to be pro-truth.
you also claimed to be pro-truth.
I am pro truth, it is off topic. Start an appropriate thread about how we can reduce our carbon emissions inorder to live sustainably without the need for windfarms and I will be happy to take part. I don't need to itemise or justify my life to you or anyone else. I have never questioned your personal green credentials. I'm now off to work on my bicycle as usual.
Green_not_greed
30-Dec-07, 20:22
Start an appropriate thread about how we can reduce our carbon emissions inorder to live sustainably without the need for windfarms and I will be happy to take part.
OK Will do as soon as I get some time.
I'm now off to work on my bicycle as usual.
That's the biggest, chunkiest bicycle I've ever seen.......
That's the biggest, chunkiest bicycle I've ever seen.......
Your eyes must be painted on, I haven't been to work in my van since my last post.
May I suggest a public debate - Rheggy v. Gng ? Or would it end with pistols at dawn?
Green_not_greed
30-Dec-07, 20:44
Your eyes must be painted on, I haven't been to work in my van since my last post.
I didn't say when I saw it.... I just said its a big vehicle!
I didn't say when I saw it.... I just said its a big vehicle!
well i don't know who you are, what can convince me that you know who i am?:confused
And the vehicle needs to be big, I'm a big road hogger, right?
Green_not_greed
30-Dec-07, 21:34
well i don't know who you are, what can convince me that you know who i am?:confused
Check your PM......
And the vehicle needs to be big, I'm a big road hogger, right?
Who said? All I said is that it was bigger than the bicycle you claim to use.....
Who said? All I said is that it was bigger than the bicycle you claim to use.....
We have vehicles that suit our domestic/commercial purpose, incidentally, my choice of vehicle was one to enable me to reduce my carbon emissions.
Green_not_greed
30-Dec-07, 22:22
my choice of vehicle was one to enable me to reduce my carbon emissions.
MPG was high on my criteria which is much the same thing.
MPG was high on my criteria which is much the same thing.
So what is your MPG?:confused Mine is 34. I'd shudder to think what a bus MPG is. To improve my carbon emissions relating to my mpg I have tried bought biodiesel. But I've not had any in for some time since they started to charge for delivery. My home brew stuff is mixed success, yes it is messy but it does work.
luskentyre
31-Dec-07, 01:52
MPG was high on my criteria which is much the same thing.
In a thread which is basically about false claims, isn't your footer showing wind turbines towering over the mountains (as if), as good an example of misrepresentation as any?
Green_not_greed
31-Dec-07, 11:32
So what is your MPG?:confused
51.4 mpg. Emissions are 172 g/km.
Just where is this getting us?
Green_not_greed
31-Dec-07, 11:35
In a thread which is basically about false claims, isn't your footer showing wind turbines towering over the mountains (as if), as good an example of misrepresentation as any?
A fair point, though I didn't design the avatar, I just use it to get the "global fooling" point across, which I think it does well. Green also means naive.
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