View Full Version : spoiling the community of Bower
Billy Boy
11-Dec-07, 23:25
This has recently been brought to the attention of the community of bower, that a local firm is planning to build these unsightly buildings in the area.
Bower for those who dont know the area well is pretty much a farming
community and although there are a couple of business's in Bower and fair enough they do bring jobs to the area, a lot of the local people feel that these buildings are not in keeping with the rest of the community, who wants to buy a property in the country only to find yourself enveloped in an industrial eastate which sadly will be the case for some of the local home owners.
so please can we have as much support as possible so that we can keep this community from being engulfed in these hideous buildings that dont belong in the country but may be more suited in an industrial area.
Please click on the link below & see for yourself how unsightly these buildings are.
http://www.ourbower.org.uk (http://forum.caithness.org/go.php?url=http://forum.caithness.org/go.php?url=http://forum.caithness.org/go.php?url=http://forum.caithness.org/go.php?url=http://forum.caithness.org/go.php?url=http://forum.caithness.org/go.php?url=http://forum.caithness.org/go.php?url=http://forum.caithness.org/go.php?url=http://forum.caithness.org/go.php?url=http://www.ourbower.org.uk)
This has recently been brought to the attention of the community of bower, that a local firm is planning to build these unsightly buildings in the area.
Bower for those who dont know the area well is pretty much a farming
community and although there are a couple of business's in Bower and fair enough they do bring jobs to the area, a lot of the local people feel that these buildings are not in keeping with the rest of the community, who wants to buy a property in the country only to find yourself enveloped in an industrial eastate which sadly will be the case for some of the local home owners.
so please can we have as much support as possible so that we can keep this community from being engulfed in these hideous buildings that dont belong in the country but may be more suited in an industrial area.
Please click on the link below & see for yourself how unsightly these buildings are.
http://www.ourbower.org.uk (http://www.ourbower.org.uk)
Looks like Jock Campbells building at Janetstown .Another eye sore .The planners opened the door when they give the Wind Turbines the green light .Big is Beautiful .... I'm just glad i don't own property in Bower..Sorry!
ywindythesecond
12-Dec-07, 00:47
This has recently been brought to the attention of the community of bower, that a local firm is planning to build these unsightly buildings in the area.
Bower for those who dont know the area well is pretty much a farming
community and although there are a couple of business's in Bower and fair enough they do bring jobs to the area, a lot of the local people feel that these buildings are not in keeping with the rest of the community, who wants to buy a property in the country only to find yourself enveloped in an industrial eastate which sadly will be the case for some of the local home owners.
so please can we have as much support as possible so that we can keep this community from being engulfed in these hideous buildings that dont belong in the country but may be more suited in an industrial area.
Please click on the link below & see for yourself how unsightly these buildings are.
http://www.ourbower.org.uk (http://forum.caithness.org/go.php?url=http://forum.caithness.org/go.php?url=http://forum.caithness.org/go.php?url=http://forum.caithness.org/go.php?url=http://www.ourbower.org.uk)
Understand how you might feel Billy Boy, but Bower has much bigger Industrial Estate problems with Stroupster, Durran Mains, Spittal Hill and Scoolary Windfarms proposed all around it.
This shows the scale of these things:
http://img164.imageshack.us/img164/6483/comparisonforssturbinedni2.jpg
Janetstown Test Facility, Dunnet Church, 110m turbine (as proposed for Spittal Hill), Forss Turbine (about the same as proposed for Durran Mains).
Proposed Stroupster turbines are 3m higher than the Spittal one shown.
Plans for Scoolary Windfarm are lurking in the wings but forty-eight of them are mooted, at least as big as the Causeymire ones.
Only on top of a hill overlooking Bower.
Like Durran Mains, Stroupster, and Spittal Hill Windfarms would be.
Check out www.caithnesswindfarms.co.uk (http://forum.caithness.org/go.php?url=http://www.caithnesswindfarms.co.uk)
johndeere
12-Dec-07, 01:10
I am the 4th generation of a farming family and own land less than 200 meters from the proposed building, and see no reason why Nicolson's cannot go-ahead with the building as expansion is what the county needs. Contrary to what was said in the John o'groat journal on Friday I feel that Nicolson's complex is very tidy and well maintained.
I am the 4th generation of a farming family and own land less than 200 meters from the proposed building, and see no reason why Nicolson's cannot go-ahead with the building as expansion is what the county needs. Contrary to what was said in the John o'groat journal on Friday I feel that Nicolson's complex is very tidy and well maintained.
I wouldn't want to live next to it either, but whats good for employment is good for Caithness.
Sorry if it ruins someones view.
The development does not make use of brownfield sites or existing buildings, contrary to Policy G2 in the Highland Council Structure Plan.
I saw this as a reason for objection but the montage seemed to show otherwise, in that the existing building is being incorperated into the final design.:confused
Those buildings and windmills are hideous and should not be built near residential areas in the country but on industrial estates outwith housing areas. why dont they put them all on Stroma.
What really annoys me is all these people coming from down south after selling their properties for hundreds of thousands, and buy a relatively cheap house up here, and then start telling the local community what we should and shouldn’t have.
You only have to look at Brough community council for that, the locals have been forced out over the incomers to the community, because they think they know what is best.
I am all for people coming into the community and expressing there desire to improve it for all, but sometimes (as seen before) they take over and not always for the best, and I for one am totally sick of it.
As for buildings getting put up that may spoil your view, get over it as said before nobody is entitled to a view, If you wanted a view buy at 1000 acre plot and build a house in the middle of it.
In this day and age up here where we have a declining population, local skills heading south, any business that is willing to provide employment and investment and oportunity in the area, long or short term should be welcomed.
Building can always be taken down, it is a lot harder to rebuild a population.
luskentyre
12-Dec-07, 03:36
What really annoys me is all these people coming from down south after selling their properties for hundreds of thousands, and buy a relatively cheap house up here, and then start telling the local community what we should and shouldn’t have.
You only have to look at Brough community council for that, the locals have been forced out over the incomers to the community, because they think they know what is best.
So any newcomer to the community has no say in their surroundings at all? How welcoming!
I am all for people coming into the community and expressing there desire to improve it for all, but sometimes (as seen before) they take over and not always for the best, and I for one am totally sick of it.
I can see just how "all for it" you are.
As for buildings getting put up that may spoil your view, get over it.
I take it you don't have a view then? Have you any idea of how galling it is to have your view (one of the reasons you bought the place!) ruined by developments?
In this day and age up here where we have a declining population, local skills heading south, any business that is willing to provide employment and investment in the area, long or short term should be welcomed.
Building can always be taken down, it is a lot harder to rebuild a population.
So you welcome any development, regardless of its merits or impact? Would you be so welcoming of a maximum security prison?
So any newcomer to the community has no say in their surroundings at all? How welcoming!
I can see just how "all for it" you are.
I take it you don't have a view then? Have you any idea of how galling it is to have your view (one of the reasons you bought the place!) ruined by developments?
So you welcome any development, regardless of its merits or impact? Would you be so welcoming of a maximum security prison?
ahh...you must be a journalist or want to be one..seeing as you are trying to twist what i said.
1) I am all for people coming into the community and expressing there desire to improve it for all
2) see point No 1
3) No I dont have a view, and at the moment a lot of the houses in Bower dont have a great view anyways. So the building may spoil 3-4 peoples look into a windbush.
4)
So you welcome any development, regardless of its merits or impact? Would you be so welcoming of a maximum security prison?
Well yes I would if it is going to provide sustainable employment, training and skills to the area.
It should be allowed 2 go ahead with dounreay running down its good 2 see a local business having enough work 2 be able 2 expand like this. It has my backing anyway.
peter macdonald
12-Dec-07, 09:53
And Im for it too I have two small industrial units within 100m of my house that employ people who would have to travel miles for work otherwise One is a owned by a long time local family .the other by folks who moved up from England both producing top quality items in their fields and Im delighted to see them prosper Its activitiess like this that may stop the Highlands depopulating schools shutting local pubs shutting etc
"So any newcomer to the community has no say in their surroundings at all? How welcoming!"
A say is one thing but to stop developments that may just help a small community survive then that needs a lot of carefull thought before saying anything
P M
4)
Well yes I would if it is going to provide sustainable employment, training and skills to the area.
Yes, i believe that is what maximum security prison do actually do.
The new building will not be incorporated into the existing one. The existing building will be extended and a new, much larger building put next to it. This is going to do nothing for the community of Bower except add noise, traffic and general disruption which would probably drive people out if they were able to sell their houses. Sadly no-one is going to want to live next to this, unless of course they actually work there but probably not even then. Also the land is currently flooded and likely to continue to be unless climate change is suddenly miraculously reversed. Houses down there were flooded last year and one resident only moved back in the summer. That house is now surrounded with water again and a huge concrete footprint is only going to make the problem worse.
Yes Caithness needs more employment and industry, but in the right place. There are industrial estates in Wick and Thurso - that's where this business should be if it wants to expand to this extent. Not in the middle of an agricultural area. Houses are supposed to be of a height that is "in keeping" with surrounding houses. Why does this not apply to industrial buildings?
One thing I have never understood is why these huge buildings are allowed to remain silver. Janetstown would be far less visible if it was a dark colour. The countryside is dotted with large farm barns which are not in themselves beautiful but are a necessity in a farming community and they are mainly green or brown, not silver. The Norscot buildings in Bower are practically invisible because they are dark and low. In contrast, Nicolsons buildings are tall and bright silver.
NickInTheNorth
12-Dec-07, 12:10
It's nice to see that the NIMBY is not extinct as was feared. I suspect that global warming has driven it further north from it's traditional home in England's "home counties". :D
(And that ain't a dig at anyone in particular - rather at an attitude of mind)
crashbandicoot1979
12-Dec-07, 12:11
I'm all for bringing new jobs to the county but if I lived in the country I wouldn't like an eyesore like that on my doorstep either so I totally empathise with the people of Bower. Surely theres a better way of building it so that its more sympathetic to the surrounding area?
How many jobs is this expansion expected to create? I didn't read about it in the paper so I'm not sure.
The new building will not be incorporated into the existing one. The existing building will be extended and a new, much larger building put next to it.
Well I think you will find that will fit any definition of incorporating one building into another.
Excuse me? How can putting one building near another be described as "incorporating" it? Yes, they are incorporating one new building into the existing one, thereby extending it. But they are adding a vastly bigger building nearby - that's not being incorporated.
I don't actually think this is going to help unemployment in the county since I imagine, being an engineering firm, he is mainly looking for engineers and Dounreay already can't get enough of them. Admittedly they are currently recruiting qualified engineers, see the front page today and http://forum.caithness.org/showthread.php?p=309616#post309616 but presumably they also still recruit apprentices.
Where are all these people working in Bower going to live? How are they going to get there? Where will they park their cars? The local schools are already full so where will their children go? Bower is a very small village - is it going to become a town around an industrial estate?
If you read the Groat last Friday you will see that the occupant of one of the houses most affected (and I don't personally know the lady) was assured by Jim Nicolson that he would never build on that site. These are real people whose lives are going to be ruined and their houses devalued to the extent of being almost worthless, having already been devalued by the existing building. I have not heard that he has offered to buy them out and take over the area completely. I wonder how all those posting in favour would feel if it was their homes and lives? This is not some development in the distance, it is right there on their doorsteps.
Yes, they are incorporating one new building into the existing one, thereby extending it.
As you said, it is incorporating an existing building into a new build. I am simply pointing out that one of the reasons for objecting is not applicable in this case.
Unfortunately you do not own the right to a view from your property!!
You merely own the land on your deeds.
Would you rather Nicolson engineering upped sticks and moved elsewhere?
Come on with the current situation in Caithness I think the expansion of any buisness is good for the county, I do feel for the folks that wil have their view ruined by it, all you can do is raise an objection with the council.
And Im for it too I have two small industrial units within 100m of my house that employ people who would have to travel miles for work otherwise One is a owned by a long time local family .the other by folks who moved up from England both producing top quality items in their fields and Im delighted to see them prosper Its activitiess like this that may stop the Highlands depopulating schools shutting local pubs shutting etc
"So any newcomer to the community has no say in their surroundings at all? How welcoming!"
A say is one thing but to stop developments that may just help a small community survive then that needs a lot of carefull thought before saying anything
P M
Two small industrial units within 100m is rather different from one massive 20m high, 60m long industrial building within a few metres. Let's be reasonable about this. No-one has a problem with Norscot in Bower nor with Nicolsons before they started expanding. However this is becoming so massive that it is simply not acceptable in a small, formerly quiet village. Good for him if he can expand but Bower is not the place to do it. There is a perfectly good industrial estate in Wick and that is where industry should be. I'm sure Wick needs the employment more than Bower.
Rheghead - I don't understand you. Why should extending one existing building justify adding another one nearby which is several times larger both in height and footprint? You've seen the pictures - would you want that right next to you taking most of the light and bringing endless noise, dirt and heaven knows how much traffic - both heavy and light?
Rheghead - I don't understand you. Why should extending one existing building justify adding another one nearby which is several times larger both in height and footprint? You've seen the pictures - would you want that right next to you taking most of the light and bringing endless noise, dirt and heaven knows how much traffic - both heavy and light?
Those points are largely irrelevent to the legal point that I was making.
But how far are you from this development? Do you have a reason to complain? From what I gather, JohnDeere is very close and he hasn't any problem with it.
so its all about peoples views from there window,off course as long as they all have a job who cares if a company is developing and creating jobs,selfishness!!!
peter macdonald
12-Dec-07, 17:20
Badger its your community ..so you do what you will .. However over the last years small communities like yours have struggled to survive ..some have... some have not.. My comment was made in a broad sense . In otherwords we should be trying to help keep employment propects in the county as high as possible to stop the drain of young folk down south .. otherwise what are we left with ??
PM
ps On almost any thread about development here there are people who want to hijack it into a discussion about windfarms??
If the folks involved want a discussion on windfarms please use the "start new thread" option
OK - John Deere says he owns land within 200m., he does not say he lives in a house right beside it. Slight difference.
I will see it from where I live so, yes it will spoil my view, but that is not my main objection. Does one have to be personally affected to object to something that is going to ruin someone else's life? It would be a sad world if we only looked after our own interests. I don't even know the people who live nearest but I pass their house regularly and can see how they are going to be completely overshadowed. It will dominate the houses roundabout and there will be no escape for them. Oh, and by the way, the new building will be on farmland purchased by the developer for this purpose. It's not a brownfield site.
No-one has a right to a view and no-one is safe from development. I have a comparatively new barn right in front of my house and, yes, it spoils the view but - it's brown, it's an agricultural building on a farm and has every right to be there. I wouldn't dream of complaining.
Billy Boy
12-Dec-07, 19:34
There are a few people on here who seem to think that the main concern is not having a view, That is not the case, The fact that they are so big and unsightly and will totally block all light from one particular residents house is a major concern that and the fact that some of the others residents properties will seriously decrease in value due to them being errected.
To all of those who say it's a good thing, yes it may well be if it wasnt being built around people's properties, It's so easy to be all for these things when they are not on your door step.[disgust] If Mr Nicolson thinks its such a great expansion why not build it outside his property, but there again he probably wouldnt want it spoiling his view.
connieb19
12-Dec-07, 19:39
One of my Polish pals was telling me today that the original building is going to be converted into flats for the workers. Is this true? :confused
NickInTheNorth
12-Dec-07, 19:57
There are a few people on here who seem to think that the main concern is not having a view, That is not the case, The fact that they are so big and unsightly and will totally block all light from one particular residents house is a major concern that and the fact that some of the others residents properties will seriously decrease in value due to them being errected.
To all of those who say it's a good thing, yes it may well be if it wasnt being built around people's properties, It's so easy to be all for these things when they are not on your door step.[disgust] If Mr Nicolson thinks its such a great expansion why not build it outside his property, but there again he probably wouldnt want it spoiling his view.
So one property has a serious loss of amenity, and a few others lose something on the value of their house?
How many jobs might be created?
A house is still a house no matter what it's value. It is time we stopped looking on a house as an investment. You live in it. It's value is immaterial.
I cannot see what the problem is. As I said before NIMBY'ism is alive and well and living in Bower!
Billy Boy
12-Dec-07, 20:11
So one property has a serious loss of amenity, and a few others lose something on the value of their house?
How many jobs might be created?
A house is still a house no matter what it's value. It is time we stopped looking on a house as an investment. You live in it. It's value is immaterial.
I cannot see what the problem is. As I said before NIMBY'ism is alive and well and living in Bower!
You obviously dont own your property because if you did you would understand what this is about.
For someone to work their butt off every day to be able to buy their house and have an investment for their kids just for some one else to come along and errect some god awfull buildings that will take away what they have worked so hard for, it's heartbreaking.
They make promises of bringing jobs to the county, That doesnt mean that they actually will, The havent even stuck to what they promised last time they errected buildings so what makes you so sure they will this time around.
They could even extend their business with out wrecking what others have worked hard for..... a concept i dont think you are familiar with lol[disgust]
NickInTheNorth
12-Dec-07, 20:21
You obviously dont own your property because if you did you would understand what this is about.
For someone to work their butt off every day to be able to buy their house and have an investment for their kids just for some one else to come along and errect some god awfull buildings that will take away what they have worked so hard for, it's heartbreaking.
They make promises of bringing jobs to the county, That doesnt mean that they actually will, The havent even stuck to what they promised last time they errected buildings so what makes you so sure they will this time around.
They could even extend their business with out wrecking what others have worked hard for..... a concept i dont think you are familiar with lol[disgust]
good to see you know so much about me.
not!
Billy Boy
12-Dec-07, 20:22
good to see you know so much about me.
not!
Well you seem to think you know what you are talking about.
NOT!!:roll:
NickInTheNorth
12-Dec-07, 20:27
Well you seem to think you know what you are talking about.
NOT!!:roll:
I'm simply expressing an opinion about an issue you brought to the forum. You however and making very personal judgements about me, my work ethic, and my understanding of life in general. That is my objection to your previous post.
Billy Boy
12-Dec-07, 20:33
I'm simply expressing an opinion about an issue you brought to the forum. You however and making very personal judgements about me, my work ethic, and my understanding of life in general. That is my objection to your previous post.
You are bringing an opinion to this thread but have you actually read the link??
This is about peoples lives and how it going to afferct them, will you still feel the same if these suppossed new job are all given to immigrants? I doubt it:confused
NickInTheNorth
12-Dec-07, 20:38
You are bringing an opinion to this thread but have you actually read the link??
This is about peoples lives and how it going to afferct them, will you still feel the same if these suppossed new job are all given to immigrants? I doubt it:confused
Yes I have read it, start to finish.
I don't have any problem with immigrants. They make a very valuable contribution to the economic well being of both local communities and the UK as a whole.
And none of that addresses the issue of your invidious attack on me.
Billy Boy
12-Dec-07, 20:46
Yes I have read it, start to finish.
I don't have any problem with immigrants. They make a very valuable contribution to the economic well being of both local communities and the UK as a whole.
And none of that addresses the issue of your invidious attack on me.
You say a property is not an investment.... how do you work that out.??
You say its only one house, would you be happy to lose up to £20,000 on your property if someone decided to build right on your door step??
I also commented that you are not grasping the concept that they could build without destroying what others have worked hard for.. why is that a problem for you?
Please do enlighted me, or is it a case of you trying to stir things up ??:confused
NickInTheNorth
12-Dec-07, 20:57
You say a property is not an investment.... how do you work that out.??
A house should be something to live in. If it were not for the misguided notion that house price inflation is a good thing in this greedy society people would not be expecting to profit by owning a house. It would simply be seen as a place to live. In all other economic activity we are told inflation is a bad thing. In reality a house increasing in value gives no real advantage to the owner, they either live their 'til death or sell it and buy another at a similarly inflated price. I do not believe that anyone has any particular right to expect to profit from someone else death.
You say its only one house, would you be happy to lose up to £20,000 on your property if someone decided to build right on your door step??
If I had chosen to buy a house then provided it was were I wanted to live I would not give two hoots about a perceived loss in value.
I also commented that you are not grasping the concept that they could build without destroying what others have worked hard for.. why is that a problem for you?
How are you suggesting that they can build without destroying what others have worked hard for. And what about the hard work being put into growing a valuable business? What is wrong with that?
Please do enlighted me, or is it a case of you trying to stir things up ??
No, I never just try to stir things up, simply speak my mind, and express my opinions without resorting to personal attacks.
Billy Boy
12-Dec-07, 21:07
they could build on their own property next to their own houses where they have plenty of land to do so thus not affecting others, but hey guess what they dont want to de- value their property.
Houses are an investment whether you agree with that or not and just because you say you dont give to hoots that doesnt mean to say that others have to be of the same opinion and if you can afford to lose up to £20,000 off the value of your property good on you, not a lot of other people can.
Its so easy to say "i would do this" and "i would do that" but its a different story when faced with the situation.
NickInTheNorth
12-Dec-07, 21:13
they could build on their own property next to their own houses where they have plenty of land to do so thus not affecting others, but hey guess what they dont want to de- value their property.
Houses are an investment whether you agree with that or not and just because you say you dont give to hoots that doesnt mean to say that others have to be of the same opinion and if you can afford to lose up to £20,000 off the value of your property good on you, not a lot of other people can.
Its so easy to say "i would do this" and "i would do that" but its a different story when faced with the situation.
Nice too see that you don't actually bother to read what I actually say.
I have enough experience of life to know what I would do and have done in many situations. Judging from the current Billy Boy thread I suspect I may have a year or two on you, and right now I really don't think I have any more interest in debating with you. Enjoy the ignore list :D
Billy Boy
12-Dec-07, 21:19
There is a god after all, I shall enjoy it. :roll:
Nick - you may be able to afford to lose the value of your house and still have enough left to buy another should you ever need to move, but most of us are not in that fortunate situation. For many people their house is all the capital they have, it's not a question of making huge profits but if you need to move you have to have something to buy another house and it's a fact of life that on the whole house prices increase. Mr Nicolson lives in a desirable area where such a building would not be considered for a moment.
The people who live nearest this building moved there when the existing business had reasonable buildings and there was no expectation that they would expand to this extent. In fact according to one neighbour (as reported in the Groat), they were promised this would not happen.
Business expansion and increased employment is obviously a good thing but it doesn't have to come at the price of ruining people's lives. When a building gets to that size it should be located on an industrial estate and preferably near transport, as someone at tonight's meeting pointed out. From the size of the building and the doors, whatever is going to be produced there will be huge and will need to be transported so why not put it nearer rail and docks?
luskentyre
13-Dec-07, 00:39
1) I am all for people coming into the community and expressing there desire to improve it for all
To be fair, that's not the impression you gave when you said
"What really annoys me is all these people coming from down south after selling their properties for hundreds of thousands, and buy a relatively cheap house up here, and then start telling the local community what we should and shouldn’t have"
On the subject of views...
3) No I dont have a view, and at the moment a lot of the houses in Bower dont have a great view anyways. So the building may spoil 3-4 peoples look into a windbush.
I'm sorry to hear you don't have a view - but try and understand how someone who does might feel at the prospect of having it spoilt. It's not necessarily about property values either - for most people, it's an important aspect of their home and their enjoyment of it.
As for the jobs, of course investment in the county is important. However, I worry when some people appear to welcome any development, regardless of merit, as long as it brings in money. Sounds a bit like prostitution to me - and I think we owe it to the county (and its reputation) to be more selective in what we allow. I'm speaking generally here.
changilass
13-Dec-07, 02:06
This is hardly 'any development' its a local firm expanding and hopefully providing a few more local jobs.
I think its sad that people get there back up about people getting ahead, its a local firm been there for years, who employ a lot of people, and can employee more given the chance.
My theory is the green eyed monster is showing there face, why is it so hard to see people do well when you work for normal everyday wages. if you could do what they did you wouldnt be sitting complaining on a local web page
How many of the objectors have been in Caithness longer than the firm or firms owners?
CAn any objectors provide employment on that scale?
from what I can see (i do have a view :) ) is that the firm want to expand and propser. They employ local people who put money back in the county. Caithness needs employers to stay here not leave, but with Mr & mrs "I cant see the wood for the trees" harping on about a lack of view they may think otherwise. Locals should be applauding the company for making the effort to provide employment and stop so many big companies being the only employers up here.
I for one would back them all the way and wish them luck in at least trying to help the community and not destroy it with petty squabbles over a view which seems to be the norm nowadays,especially with incomers.
Must get myself a big pro Nicolsons sig for the bottom of my post like the anti-windys!!!!!!!
OK -
I will see it from where I live so, yes it will spoil my view, but that is not my main objection. Does one have to be personally affected to object to something that is going to ruin someone else's life? It would be a sad world if we only looked after our own interests. I don't even know the people who live nearest but I pass their house regularly and can see how they are going to be completely overshadowed.
.
And you are not looking out for your own interests as Nicolson have their right to theirs?
Try this formula LOCAL FIRM+LOCAL JOBS=LOCAL MONEY x MOREMONEY IN COUNTY=INCREASED HOUSE PRICES.
Works for me.
Ok - be honest about this. If this building was going to be put right next to your house (and it is huge, make no mistake) making it almost worthless and your daily life a nightmare, would you be so in favour?
I repeat, those who support it so vocally won't be living next to it. The doors are massive so presumably whatever is going to be made there will be equally huge. I doubt if the building will be sound proof so there will be noise, dust, dirt, vastly increased traffic - all this on the doorstep of people who bought houses by what was at the time a reasonable sized business. They didn't complain when the existing building went up on the car park and in the past they have all got on well together - that is Nicolsons and the neighbours.
It's great that he can expand and bring more employment to the county but why not do it in Wick industrial estate?
NickInTheNorth
13-Dec-07, 11:57
any particular reason that two of the more sensible posts on this thread have been deleted?
I've hesitated to post in this thread as I no longer live in Caithness. Here in central Edinburgh I have no view beyond my back garden, but, fortunately for me, I'm at very little risk of having a great big industrial development appearing right on my doorstep.
Since I don't live locally, the points I'd like to make are general ones.
I have found that wherever I've lived (and I've moved around a lot) the people who were 100% in favour of the kind of development described here have been those who would -even if only potentially- benefit, usually from improved job prospects, but would not suffer from having a Blot on the Landscape plonked right on their doorsteps.
Well fair enough, that may be quite understandable.
But then these same people would rush to condemn the folk whose community would suffer from loss of amenities in everyday life, as well as falling house values - which represent most people's biggest lifetime investment and do matter when you need/want to sell/move -as being selfish NIMBYs... :(
Is there really nowhere else in Caithness that this development could be sited to provide jobs without damaging a rural community? :confused
peter macdonald
13-Dec-07, 14:42
"any particular reason that two of the more sensible posts on this thread have been deleted?"
Dont know Nick but its happening more and more
When the Remembrance thread was pulled I was annoyed as it seemed to be at the whim of a mod Here I dont know but its the last time for me
If they want to censor the Org fine but lets be fair and openhanded
Anyway Im out of here permanently I cant be bothered when my opinions/posts can be deleted just because some one just doesnt happen to agree with me
Good Luck
Peter MacDonald
Margaret M.
13-Dec-07, 14:44
I repeat, those who support it so vocally won't be living next to it.
Exactly!! You can bet that many of those singing the building's praises would be the first ones whining if it was put in their back yard! The view has always been one of the most important things to me any time I've bought a home. Homeowners located near the proposed site have a legitimate beef and it must be very difficult for those affected to consider the benefits to the county when they are dealing with the possibility of a huge financial loss. I totally agree that a building of this size belongs in an industrial area.
Billy Boy
14-Dec-07, 00:31
I think most people have a problem with the size of the proposed buildings and not the fact that they are planning to expand, It seems that the majority of those who are all saying yes it should go ahead are those who are more than happy that it wont be on their door step.
It will affect some people in a big way mainly those who stand to lose out financially, how many of you that are for it, would be happy to be the ones suffering the financial lose just for someone else's gain? not many i bet.[disgust]
As i have said before if Mr Nicolson thinks it is such a great move, why isnt he building it on his own door step? after all he is more than happy to build it on someone else's.
I think most people have a problem with the size of the proposed buildings and not the fact that they are planning to expand, It seems that the majority of those who are all saying yes it should go ahead are those who are more than happy that it wont be on their door step.
It will affect some people in a big way mainly those who stand to lose out financially, how many of you that are for it, would be happy to be the ones suffering the financial lose just for someone else's gain? not many i bet.[disgust]
As i have said before if Mr Nicolson thinks it is such a great move, why isnt he building it on his own door step? after all he is more than happy to build it on someone else's.
From what i can gather MOST people don't have a problem with the size or location of the building..
The website that was setup to voice opinions about the development didnt go to well seeing as they have brought down the forum, because of the over whelming support nicolsons have for the development.
As for why not build it on his own doorstep...well i don't know where he lives but nicolson engineering as a company have been in Bower for years, so why should they move such a reputable company and brand name to a new location when what they want/need to do has been marketed in that location.
Metalattakk
14-Dec-07, 02:41
any particular reason that two of the more sensible posts on this thread have been deleted?
Dont know Nick but its happening more and more
When the Remembrance thread was pulled I was annoyed as it seemed to be at the whim of a mod Here I dont know but its the last time for me
If they want to censor the Org fine but lets be fair and openhanded
Anyway Im out of here permanently I cant be bothered when my opinions/posts can be deleted just because some one just doesnt happen to agree with me
Good Luck
Peter MacDonald
This worries me greatly.
I too have noticed some extremely unwarranted moderation recently, and would like some reasoning from the silent Moderators. After all, who moderates the Moderators?
I'm not even sure we know who the moderators are, which cannot ever be sensible.
Mr Boss-Moderator sir, some answers would be appreciated.
PS. Peter, I share your disgust, but please hang about for a bit eh, just to see what transpires?
This worries me greatly.
I too have noticed some extremely unwarranted moderation recently, and would like some reasoning from the silent Moderators. After all, who moderates the Moderators?
I'm not even sure we know who the moderators are, which cannot ever be sensible.
Mr Boss-Moderator sir, some answers would be appreciated.
PS. Peter, I share your disgust, but please hang about for a bit eh, just to see what transpires?
You may find this hard to believe metal but I agree with you (well theres a first time for everything!)
Posts do seem to disappear rather quickly and without any notification or explanation.
The forum needs to be moderated but it seems someone is being a little over zealous on occasions.
An explanation would go along way to quell any paranoia that would surely surface?
ywindythesecond
14-Dec-07, 09:11
This worries me greatly.
I too have noticed some extremely unwarranted moderation recently, and would like some reasoning from the silent Moderators. After all, who moderates the Moderators?
I'm not even sure we know who the moderators are, which cannot ever be sensible.
Mr Boss-Moderator sir, some answers would be appreciated.
PS. Peter, I share your disgust, but please hang about for a bit eh, just to see what transpires?
Can someone fill me in on disappearing posts please, I didn't notice it happening.
Billy Boy
14-Dec-07, 10:08
From what i can gather MOST people don't have a problem with the size or location of the building..
The website that was setup to voice opinions about the development didnt go to well seeing as they have brought down the forum, because of the over whelming support nicolsons have for the development.
As for why not build it on his own doorstep...well i don't know where he lives but nicolson engineering as a company have been in Bower for years, so why should they move such a reputable company and brand name to a new location when what they want/need to do has been marketed in that location.
You are going by what you have read by a majority of people on a forum who dont even live in the Bower area, most of them work for Nicolsons.
a case of i'm happy cos its not on my door step.
I on the other hand am speaking of people who do live in Bower and who dont want it and as for the location where they want / need it, yes they want it here rather than then own door step cos they wouldnt want to have to look at that every day from their house as for need well anyone can relocate, what if they hadnt been able to obtain ground for their planned expansion they would of had to concider re location then, so whats the difference?
So if they relocate to somewhere else the people of Bower will be happy???
So it then would become someone elses problem, you can't please everyone all the time. Surely if you run a business your main aim is to make money, then why would Nicolsons want to waste money re-locating when they have enough space surrounding their existing workshop?? How can you say for certain that the properties close to this new building will lose value?
NickInTheNorth
14-Dec-07, 10:31
Can someone fill me in on disappearing posts please, I didn't notice it happening.
2 posts from WildChild
one saying where the originator of the thread works, and where his wife has a business, the other making very reasonable comments about the whole debate.
I notice that wild child is now suspended!
Is there any truth in that Nicolson's have an option on some land at Scrabster and the bower site is a means to an end ????
Billy Boy
14-Dec-07, 10:58
So if they relocate to somewhere else the people of Bower will be happy???
So it then would become someone elses problem, you can't please everyone all the time. Surely if you run a business your main aim is to make money, then why would Nicolsons want to waste money re-locating when they have enough space surrounding their existing workshop?? How can you say for certain that the properties close to this new building will lose value?
Like i have said the problem is not with the expansion its with the size of the buildings, of course the properties close by will lose value, who in their right mind would pay a fortune for a house with a building the size of an airport hanger next to it.
Would you be happy to have it by you?
Like i have said the problem is not with the expansion its with the size of the buildings, of course the properties close by will lose value, who in their right mind would pay a fortune for a house with a building the size of an airport hanger next to it.
Would you be happy to have it by you?
How do you know I dont have large buildings by me already?
In fact I do and have no problem with it thanks. You can say of course the properties will lose value all you want but unless you have them valued how can you know for sure?
Billy Boy
14-Dec-07, 14:08
Its not just a case of loss of value to the property, there will be increased noise levels and more traffic, it wont afftect me as much as it is going to affect others but that doesnt mean i should take the attitude of well its not right on my door step so i dont care, the fact is that if people want to errect such massive buildings then put them in an industrial estate not right next to someones home and i dont care where in caithness it is going i would still feel the same, most folk on here are oh yes let them put it up would they all still feel the same if it was right next to their house? I very much doubt it, plus the people who will be closest to it have already said that Mr Nicolson had assured them that no more buildings would be going up.
So why should we believe that there will be more jobs etc.:confused
firstly badger is bower school full at the moment?? (unrelated i know but that bit caught my attention) what numbers do they have? back to the topic. i can see both sides of this argument if i were living near the development i wouldnt be pleased on the other hand if i owned a buisness and land i could expand onto i wouldnt be looking anywhere elseas to the shed itself, the pictures shown on the website created dont look to awful, bigger than farm buildings but not by a lot. (i have a lot of sheds round my house it reminds me a bit of that)but it would be good to see some jobs come to bower rather than it just be a place that you pass through to get to wick or thurso. veering off topic again, if i had been creating the website "ourbower" i wouldnt have picked a picture of a ditched that badly needs cleaned, rashes and a failing fence to highlight the loss of your view....
I can understand why Nicolsons want to develop at their current location and why should they move to an industrial estate if they dont have to? If they get permission to build the sheds at their own premises it would be much more cost effective for the company. I dont know Mr Nicolson personally but I'm sure, when he promised the residents that he would not be building any more sheds etc, he meant it. Everyone knows that when you are in business your circumstances change regularly and now they have changed he needs new buildings.
I grew up in a small village which had a very noisy business behind my house and everyone just got on with it, after a while you dont even hear the noise. No matter what Nicolsons do someone will have an objection to it, that's life. I'm not saying that people shouldnt stand up for what they believe in but sometimes the good out weighs the bad.
Billy Boy
14-Dec-07, 18:30
2 posts from WildChild
one saying where the originator of the thread works, and where his wife has a business, the other making very reasonable comments about the whole debate.
I notice that wild child is now suspended!
Just to put the record straight, Wildchild did not give out information about the originator of the thread because i am the originator of this thread.
I would also like to say that Wildchild deserved to be suspended for giving out private information on a public forum[disgust]
changilass
14-Dec-07, 18:36
Why should they not be able to expand, its not gonna be any bigger than icetech in castletown and that couldnt possibly be any closer to houses and the value of houses in castletown has increased over the years
connieb19
14-Dec-07, 18:43
I hope my view in Bower wont be blocked in any way. The dishy blokie bloke that stands outside Nicolsons in the mornings is very eyecatching lol. ;)
Billy Boy
14-Dec-07, 18:50
have you not looked at the height of it changilass? if it was only the same height as Icetech it wouldnt be so bad, that and the fact that it is in a far smaller place than Castletown or maybe you are not familiar with the size of Bower, at least Icetech buildings are also a dark colour not bright white/gray colour that will stick out like a sore thumb.
Also would you be happy to have it built right outside your window if you lived in a rural area, That and having to put up with excess noise & traffic at all hours & security lights shining in your windows at night, if you answer honestly i dont believe for one minute that you would anymore than any one else would, but its just the usual case of i dont care its not on my door step, I really feel for those who are going to be affected by it, I for one wouldnt like it built right next to me.
firstly badger is bower school full at the moment?? (unrelated i know but that bit caught my attention) what numbers do they have? back to the topic. i can see both sides of this argument if i were living near the development i wouldnt be pleased on the other hand if i owned a buisness and land i could expand onto i wouldnt be looking anywhere elseas to the shed itself, the pictures shown on the website created dont look to awful, bigger than farm buildings but not by a lot. (i have a lot of sheds round my house it reminds me a bit of that)but it would be good to see some jobs come to bower rather than it just be a place that you pass through to get to wick or thurso. veering off topic again, if i had been creating the website "ourbower" i wouldnt have picked a picture of a ditched that badly needs cleaned, rashes and a failing fence to highlight the loss of your view....
As far as I know Bower school is full. It is certainly a very tiny building so could not take many more children. As for the land, he didn't own it. He has just bought part of a field from a local farmer so he can build this thing on it. I would have no problem with more jobs coming to Bower but why does it have to be such a huge building right by someone's back garden. Also it's not going to be quiet - from the size of those doors it's going to be pretty noisy. I'm not sure why he can't build behind his existing premises on the other side of the road but there may be a reason I don't know of. Maybe I'll go to the Open Day tomorrow and find out.
changilass
14-Dec-07, 19:36
I can honestly say that whilst I may not be over the moon it wouldnt bother me too much, my house is in the middle of a housing estate, my home is when I get in the door and shut out the rest of the world.
Years ago I had the misfortune of living at the caravan site at juniper bank, for the first 2 weeks I couldn't sleep for the noise of the trains, it ended up that I would wake up if the train missed and you stoped noticing the noise after a while.
I have also lived in 2 major cities in englandshire so know about excess traffic.
With regards the light, as I am scared of the dark I would quite appreciate it.
This is not me trying to make light of the situation, it is just me explaining why the various points wouldnt have me in a spin.
Billy Boy
14-Dec-07, 19:54
I can honestly say that whilst I may not be over the moon it wouldnt bother me too much, my house is in the middle of a housing estate, my home is when I get in the door and shut out the rest of the world.
Years ago I had the misfortune of living at the caravan site at juniper bank, for the first 2 weeks I couldn't sleep for the noise of the trains, it ended up that I would wake up if the train missed and you stoped noticing the noise after a while.
I have also lived in 2 major cities in englandshire so know about excess traffic.
With regards the light, as I am scared of the dark I would quite appreciate it.
This is not me trying to make light of the situation, it is just me explaining why the various points wouldnt have me in a spin.
I understand that changilass, but what i am saying is that the people who live next to where it is going to be built bought their properties because they wanted to live in a rural area and to be told that there wont be anymore buildings going up in the future, only to be faced with these huge buildings now is more than a bit unfair.
Yes they may well get used to the noise, traffic etc but thats not the point
why should they have to after being told this situation would not occur.
These buildings are as big as an airport hanger not your normal run of the mill shed.
changilass
14-Dec-07, 20:25
Billy boy at the end of the day the only way to guarantee no one builds near you is to buy the land surrounding your home, I couldn't afford to do that and neither can many others, life aint fair, its unfortuante for the folks involved but it aint the end of the world.
More and more new houses are being built all over the county, at some point in the future Wick and Thurso will be joined up by all the houses going up, the landscape is changing constantly and soon there will be very few truely rural areas left.
Billy Boy
14-Dec-07, 20:38
Billy boy at the end of the day the only way to guarantee no one builds near you is to buy the land surrounding your home, I couldn't afford to do that and neither can many others, life aint fair, its unfortuante for the folks involved but it aint the end of the world.
More and more new houses are being built all over the county, at some point in the future Wick and Thurso will be joined up by all the houses going up, the landscape is changing constantly and soon there will be very few truely rural areas left.
Lol i'm aware of that but there's a heck of a big difference between house's being built next to you and the massive building that Mr Nicolson plans to build where the noise & traffic will increase immensly.( which this thread is about & not houses )
plus these folk have worked darn hard to be able to afford their house in the first place as have many others. why should they just sit back and see it over shadowed by a massive building.
As far as I know Bower school is full. It is certainly a very tiny building so could not take many more children. As for the land, he didn't own it. He has just bought part of a field from a local farmer so he can build this thing on it. I would have no problem with more jobs coming to Bower but why does it have to be such a huge building right by someone's back garden. Also it's not going to be quiet - from the size of those doors it's going to be pretty noisy. I'm not sure why he can't build behind his existing premises on the other side of the road but there may be a reason I don't know of. Maybe I'll go to the Open Day tomorrow and find out.
so he does own the piece of land he wishes to build on now?
the open day would be the best place to go and find out whats going on and why.
One thing I have never understood is why these huge buildings are allowed to remain silver. Janetstown would be far less visible if it was a dark colour. The countryside is dotted with large farm barns which are not in themselves beautiful but are a necessity in a farming community and they are mainly green or brown, not silver. The Norscot buildings in Bower are practically invisible because they are dark and low. In contrast, Nicolsons buildings are tall and bright silver.
I agree that silver isn't fantastic, but green or brown?! Have you seen the green buildings at Dounreay? What hideous eyesores! If it does go ahead and if people want it, why should it be a dour, dark colour? Why not get a decent architect to come up with something more interesting? Things like that will never 'blend in' in this landscape, so why not try to create something attractive or interesting?
I wouldn't want that thing on my doorstep if I lived in Bower.
Ok, so much for my opinion... Genuinely inquisitive questions now... Why did the company set up in Bower in the first instance? Does the owner live in the village?
I know the OurBower mannie lives there and if I'm not mistaken his OH has a rather successful business there too.
Moi x
He has been in Bower for many years, as have Norscot, but has only recently started expanding at this rate. I'm not very keen on the big building on the car park as it sticks out like a sore thumb, but it's nothing like what is proposed.
I lived in London for many years, by busy roads, equally busy train lines and under Heathrow flight paths. In fact once I had all three. The difference is that if you move into a place that is already noisy and busy that's your choice. Lots of people would die rather than live in the country - they prefer the noise and bustle of a city. However if you make the choice to live somewhere quiet, and invest your all in it (which is what most of us do financially), it's pretty hard to suddenly have something big and noisy plonked on your doorstep which will totally change your life and probably massively reduce that hard earned investment. It's not like an industrial estate on the edge of a town, where there are shops, houses, traffic, people anyway. Bower is amazingly quiet most of the time and it's going to be completely changed.
Nicolsons neighbours have no escape unless they move away and who is going to buy their houses? There are places all over the country where people suddenly find they cannot sell due to planning blight, flooding, even land falling into the sea. That doesn't make it right.
Seems to me there are two choices - he gets his building and compensates those immediately affected or he moves the whole business somewhere more suitable. Sad thing is, whatever the outcome people who previously had no problems with each other as neighbours are now falling out (same effect as w**df***s only I know I'm not allowed to mention them here :roll: ).
I lived in London for many years, by busy roads, equally busy train lines and under Heathrow flight paths. In fact once I had all three. The difference is that if you move into a place that is already noisy and busy that's your choice. Lots of people would die rather than live in the country - they prefer the noise and bustle of a city. However if you make the choice to live somewhere quiet, and invest your all in it (which is what most of us do financially), it's pretty hard to suddenly have something big and noisy plonked on your doorstep which will totally change your life and probably massively reduce that hard earned investment. It's not like an industrial estate on the edge of a town, where there are shops, houses, traffic, people anyway. Bower is amazingly quiet most of the time and it's going to be completely changed.
So because you moved into Bower when it was a quiet backwater, it has to stay a quiet backwater as long as you deign to live there..........regardless of the benefits to the Caithness economy and the prospect of jobs in an area short of them?
Maybe the planning people will agree with you that businesses should bear the cost of moving lock stock and barrel to another area and leasing land rather than spoil your views, generate noise and traffic to disturb you and perhaps reduce your profit on resale of your house.
Penelope Pitstop
15-Dec-07, 12:55
Personally I don't like the huge building at Janetstown - it's an eye sore when you come into Thurso. The colour could be worse tho - green or brown on the landscape.
I wouldn't like one built in front of my window.
Having said that progress is what Caithness needs in order for us to keep people here. Many that came to work in Dounreay are leaving again - in droves. The brain drain.
Work needs to be brought into the county - because there ain't any here - not in engineering anyway. Dounreay used to be the hub of alot of engineering activity, but it's dead. Firms can't survive on what is on offer in Caithness and need to look further afield. Can't blame this firm for trying to bring work into the county.
Someone mentioned build it on an industrial estate. From what I've seen this isn't too easy either. Look at the new building being built on Ormlie Industrial Estate - the firm building it has had nothing but problems with complaints from neighbouring houses. It's been at a standstill for months. Take note that is being built on a designated industrial estate!! Plus with regard to relocating to an industrial site, who do you think would pay for the relocation (probably if history is anything to go by a grant of about £130K wouldn't be out of order from HIE, etc)......yip you guessed it us....the tax payer!
When people move up to our beautiful county many are trying to get away from the rat race and hustle and bustle - live in peace and tranquility in Caithness. Quite a few have given up their homes and employment down south to come here to lead that new type of life. Nothing wrong with that, but some of us that have lived here all our lives don't want the county to stagnate, we want to move the county forward and don't have the luxury not to have employment. Perhaps Caithness will turn into a retirement county - no jobs on offer, just well off retired folk (none of whom will be from Caithness!!)
Again just the opinion of a local.:confused
I have been reading this thread with interest over the last few days and have become more disheartened the more I have read. I just want to make a few points and thats my lot.
Firstly, I get the distinct impression that everyone who is in favour of this new development either does not live anywhere near it and so will not be affected in any way or they are hoping to get work out of it or knows someone who will.
Secondly, there is a very nasty underlying feeling going on about incomers to the county. If you were not born and bred in Caithness does that make you an inferior being? The bigoted attitude of some is breathtaking. If you had to move down south whether its Edinburgh or Sheffield for family reasons or work commitments would you like to be spoken about when you settle in like some on here are speaking about people moving to this area?
Thirdly, you may not be entitled to a view from your home under planning rules but you are entitled to have your residential amenity preserved. After all that is what you moved there for in the first place.
Dounreay is not dead yet. Maybe you didn't notice the front page of the .org or the link on here earlier - they are currently recruiting engineers.
Why resort to personal insults, Oddquine, when you know nothing about me or my circumstances, or even where I live (the parish of Bower is very large)? If this development was likely to affect the value of my house I would be very upset because I have worked hard and saved hard all my life, and in fact still work hard but now unpaid. I know many of the people who will be affected and are objecting - some are local people who have lived and worked here all their lives, some have not been here so long.
Hopefully one day Caithness will get over it's attitude to incomers. They've been around long enough for people to have got used to them but somehow it gets thrown up over things like this. 40 years ago I lived in an area of London where I sometimes felt I was in a racial minority, and of course now native English are a minority. I never thought of people who were not born there as incomers - they were just other people of a different race. The .org forum is the only place up here that I have ever felt like an unwelcome outsider, but it doesn't happen often.
I'm an incomer myself, badger, but I don't expect progress to stand still just because I am more than happy with life the way it is.....but if I were so inclined I'd be quietly going about putting in objections to the council, and not posting on forums about something which only affects one small community.
After all, I'm quite sure that people who will be affected have made up their own minds for and against, and the opinions of others outside that area will make no difference to the planners, whatever the author of the website believes. Heck, he even objects to the building of houses!
Unless there are local Bower residents posting on this thread against the development, and there may be because I don't know who is local and who is not, then it simply gives grist to the mill to those who accuse incomers of NIMBYism.
And I'm afraid that remarks like the people who live next to where it is going to be built bought their properties because they wanted to live in a rural area and to be told that there wont be anymore buildings going up in the future, only to be faced with these huge buildings now is more than a bit unfair. simply highlights that.
And you do get used to the noise............I stopped hearing the planes from Kinloss and Lossiemouth years and years ago.
I could be wrong but I had assumed from the content of the posts that Billyboy, who started this thread, was local. I do know that there are still people who don't have internet access, there are even more people who have it but don't look at this website and still more who are aware of the site but don't post on forums. So I think given the small population of Bower, it's not surprising that there are not many local posters. A fair number of people did turn up to the local meeting and the vote of those who had made up their minds went against. Interesting to see how many abstained - bit like the Aberdeen council except that here they were not councillors so are perfectly entitled to reserve their opinion (and I believe some did not vote because they were not Bower residents).
I agree you do get used to the sound of planes, even when they're coming over every few minutes and some are Concord (alas no longer). However I think a factory is different - for instance fork lift trucks operating outside make a very annoying beeping sound - and this particular one is so huge. I don't actually think anyone should have to live next to a large noisy factory and the one at Castletown is in my opinion much too close to houses but it's there. Whether there was a public outcry when it was proposed I have no idea but I would have thought it could have been built near Castletown without being quite so close to where people live. That's the problem with the Bower proposal - it's just too close to houses. Oh and I don't have a problem with more houses. No point wishing for shops as in other villages they are still closing and it was a very sad day when the Bower Inn ceased to trade.
Billy Boy
16-Dec-07, 12:25
I'm an incomer myself, badger, but I don't expect progress to stand still just because I am more than happy with life the way it is.....but if I were so inclined I'd be quietly going about putting in objections to the council, and not posting on forums about something which only affects one small community.
After all, I'm quite sure that people who will be affected have made up their own minds for and against, and the opinions of others outside that area will make no difference to the planners, whatever the author of the website believes. Heck, he even objects to the building of houses!
Unless there are local Bower residents posting on this thread against the development, and there may be because I don't know who is local and who is not, then it simply gives grist to the mill to those who accuse incomers of NIMBYism.
And I'm afraid that remarks like the people who live next to where it is going to be built bought their properties because they wanted to live in a rural area and to be told that there wont be anymore buildings going up in the future, only to be faced with these huge buildings now is more than a bit unfair. simply highlights that.
And you do get used to the noise............I stopped hearing the planes from Kinloss and Lossiemouth years and years ago.
First of all Oddquine, I do live in this area and as Badger has said there are a lot of people who dont access this web site and i know of a good few who dont, but that are against this proposal and as for you quoting my saying that the people who live next to it were told their would be no more buildings going up.........It was Mr Nicolson himself who said it......... makes you wonder what else is being said that isnt true.
There was an open day yesterday and he wasnt in the least bit interested in discussing any of this with the locals, he didnt even turn up to the public meeting that was held and was quoted in the paper as saying he wasnt invited..............It was an open public meeting why would he think that he should of been personally invited, no one else got a personally invitation.:confused
But did anyone have that promise in writing, Billy Boy....and was the land for building the houses bought from him?
If so, they should have made that a condition...........and if not........caveat emptor.
Nobody can say for sure what they will be doing 10 years hence, after all.
According to the Groat on the 7th December he was going to be invited............or would
A public meeting to discuss the planning application will be held in Bower's community hall on Wednesday at 7pm. Mr Nicolson is being invited to attend......not lead you to expect an invitation....it would me.
In the end, it is down to the planners...and I still don't understand how anyone would think that a thread on here garnering support is going to make any difference to any decision made as few of us appear to be in the Bower area.
Billy Boy
16-Dec-07, 14:58
Oddquine.............. You are entitled to your opinion just as much as anyone else.
All i said was that he gave his word & now has changed his mind.
Regardless of how things change, he shouldnt of gave it if he didnt know if he would be able to honour it years along the line, after all, it is a business surely as a business man he would of at least hoped that a few years down the line it would take off enough to expand.
I am a little confussed as to what houses you are on about?
Who is building house's?:confused
Royster1911
16-Dec-07, 15:33
Dounreay is not dead yet. Maybe you didn't notice the front page of the .org or the link on here earlier - they are currently recruiting engineers.
Why resort to personal insults, Oddquine, when you know nothing about me or my circumstances, or even where I live (the parish of Bower is very large)? If this development was likely to affect the value of my house I would be very upset because I have worked hard and saved hard all my life, and in fact still work hard but now unpaid. I know many of the people who will be affected and are objecting - some are local people who have lived and worked here all their lives, some have not been here so long.
Hopefully one day Caithness will get over it's attitude to incomers. They've been around long enough for people to have got used to them but somehow it gets thrown up over things like this. 40 years ago I lived in an area of London where I sometimes felt I was in a racial minority, and of course now native English are a minority. I never thought of people who were not born there as incomers - they were just other people of a different race. The .org forum is the only place up here that I have ever felt like an unwelcome outsider, but it doesn't happen often.
Perhaps the "incomers" should adopt the way of life lived by the locals and not shove their views down other peoples throats. Race has nothing to do with it, but their (incomers) attitude has a lot to do with it. The good people of Bower parish are a proud lot and do not need to be taken by the hand by anyone. IF so many people are against this plan then it will show when the application goes before the council for approval. Let the people of Bower speak, not just the few "chosen" ones.
Oddquine.............. You are entitled to your opinion just as much as anyone else.
All i said was that he gave his word & now has changed his mind.
Regardless of how things change, he shouldnt of gave it if he didnt know if he would be able to honour it years along the line, after all, it is a business surely as a business man he would of at least hoped that a few years down the line it would take off enough to expand.
I am a little confussed as to what houses you are on about?
Who is building house's?:confused
Building/buying...it comes to the same in the end.......either get "promises" in writing, as otherwise they mean nothing....or, if buying from the person making the promises, get them written in as a condition of sale.
After all, the promise he is said to have given is only hearsay...or possibly optimistic interpretation on the part of the buyer of the house in question.
Billy Boy
16-Dec-07, 16:45
Building/buying...it comes to the same in the end.......either get "promises" in writing, as otherwise they mean nothing....or, if buying from the person making the promises, get them written in as a condition of sale.
After all, the promise he is said to have given is only hearsay...or possibly optimistic interpretation on the part of the buyer of the house in question.
You still didnt answer the question of what house's you were on about?
This isnt about anyone building houses.
Building/buying...it comes to the same in the end.......either get "promises" in writing, as otherwise they mean nothing....or, if buying from the person making the promises, get them written in as a condition of sale.
After all, the promise he is said to have given is only hearsay...or possibly optimistic interpretation on the part of the buyer of the house in question.
Maybe you didn't read the first article in the Groat. This is what was said
Mrs Sewell, who has lodged a complaint with planning officials, added: "We had no inkling of anything of this going on. Years ago there was an old cottage that he knocked down, and I asked him what he was doing and he said that it was going to be a car park.
"I asked him if there would be any buildings going up and he said, 'I promise you now there will never be any buildings going up there.' He doesn't care who he walks on because he's done it before."
Nothing to do with buying a house.
I'm not sure what Royster means by the people of Bower being a proud lot - they are the usual mixture of Caithness born and incomers - but the public meeting gave them an opportunity to air their views and they did. The Planning Committee will take the final decision and this will not necessarily reflect the level of opinion they receive, either for or against.
Royster1911
16-Dec-07, 17:13
So Badger, Are you saying you are not proud of your community? Do you speak for ALL of Bower or just the chosen few? I speak for myself and the rest of my community can do the same should they wish to, and I am certainly proud to say I live in Thurso..
Maybe you didn't read the first article in the Groat. This is what was said
Nothing to do with buying a house.
I'm not sure what Royster means by the people of Bower being a proud lot - they are the usual mixture of Caithness born and incomers - but the public meeting gave them an opportunity to air their views and they did. The Planning Committee will take the final decision and this will not necessarily reflect the level of opinion they receive, either for or against.
I did read the first article in the Groat.....so I assume, from your comment that the promise was made within the last ten years, given that that is when Mrs Sewell moved to Bower.........I thought from the outrage that it was a factor in the buying of the property.
The Groat also said it is not yet clear how high the buildings would be. So how high are they going to be? The Groat appears to give two base areas so far.....which is correct?
luskentyre
17-Dec-07, 02:22
I can’t help feeling this is turning into an “us and them” discussion. I don’t think anyone is against development per se – but rather the siting of the development. Looking at the pictures on www.ourbower.org.uk, it’s clear that the planned building has a huge visual impact – and not just for those living nearby. Given the topography of the county, it’s likely to be seen from a fair distance away (not unlike the facility at Janetstown).
For those who say that a view isn’t important – please try and consider those for whom it is. A large part of living in a rural location is that feeling of openness and being able to view the wonderful landscape. If you were used to that, would you really be happy at something like an aircraft hanger being stuck there?
Surely there are alternatives. Is there a reason why this proposed building couldn’t be sited at an industrial park?
Boozeburglar
17-Dec-07, 05:57
I totally agree with anyone who is fighting to retain the rural landscape.
What utter rubbish to suggest there is anything wrong with objecting to something because it is in one's back yard.
How many people supporting it will have it in their back yards? Does this mean they cannot support it?
That whole argument is predicated on there being a real necessity for the something being there.
There are no commercial arguments for allowing this type of structure to be built in such a location.
Were you or I to apply to build a house that size we would get no permission, and don't give me the line about it being a temporary structure. Caithness is going to be so full of temporary structures that there will be no scenery left.
It certainly wouldn't get the go ahead at Dunnet in front of their houses.
Just out of interest, does anyone know what they are planning to engineer in this huge shed? I hope its not wind turbines!!
No - it's for the oil industry and he has said will be transported to Scrabster and Wick harbours so I hope all those who live on the routes between Bower/Scrabster and Bower/Wick are prepared for big lorries. They'll have fun getting through the towns if that's what they're planning.
Just out of interest, does anyone know what they are planning to engineer in this huge shed? I hope its not wind turbines!!
It would makes sense for local workshops to bid for repairwork under licence from Siemens, Vesta and Proven etc. :evil
No - it's for the oil industry and he has said will be transported to Scrabster and Wick harbours so I hope all those who live on the routes between Bower/Scrabster and Bower/Wick are prepared for big lorries. They'll have fun getting through the towns if that's what they're planning.
Just as much fun as any big load on these roads, I'd have thought. Good job they are unlikely to be daily ones, isn't it?
Billy Boy
17-Dec-07, 21:05
I started this thread so that people could look at the link i put on and see for themselves the proposed development of Nicolsons Engineering in Bower.
The link to a site called Ourbower was designed by Mr Herrick who was
speaking for those who are in the immediate vacinity of the proposed development and who were happy to have Mr Herrick speak out for them.
I was aware that there would be mixed feelings over this proposal as would be expected with most developments of this kind, what i didnt expect was for some to go on to the forum on the link and be down right Nasty and personally attack Mr Herrick with racist comments among other things, I am totally disgusted that some people feel the need to behave in this manner and can only say i hope you are never on the receiving end of such venomous personal attacks, you know who you are and should be ashamed of yourselfs, Its an appauling way for adults to behave.[disgust]
www.ourbower.org.uk (http://forum.caithness.org/go.php?url=http://forum.caithness.org/go.php?url=http://www.ourbower.org.uk)
I started this thread so that people could look at the link i put on and see for themselves the proposed development of Nicolsons Engineering in Bower.
The link to a site called Ourbower was designed by Mr Herrick who was
speaking for those who are in the immediate vacinity of the proposed development and who were happy to have Mr Herrick speak out for them.
I was aware that there would be mixed feelings over this proposal as would be expected with most developments of this kind, what i didnt expect was for some to go on to the forum on the link and be down right Nasty and personally attack Mr Herrick with racist comments among other things, I am totally disgusted that some people feel the need to behave in this manner and can only say i hope you are never on the receiving end of such venomous personal attacks, you know who you are and should be ashamed of yourselfs, Its an appauling way for adults to behave.[disgust]
www.ourbower.org.uk (http://forum.caithness.org/go.php?url=http://forum.caithness.org/go.php?url=http://www.ourbower.org.uk)
Dont know what was posted but there is no need for people to get nasty to another.
Personally I hope they get planning permission but I dont think it is right for people to lambast Mr Herrick with racist comments, that detracts away from the point. Hope he wasnt put off by it and I wish him well.
As someone who works for a contractor at Dounreay (not Nicolson's!) I am well aware of how difficult is has become for the contractors to survive on site. Work is become ever scarcer and the competition is becoming cut throat - do not be misled - this is going to result in redundancies, redundancies which could mean loss of labour skills to this area permanently. Nicolsons are being very brave and forward thinking in tryin to do something to combat this, they have many families already depending on them for employement and they are doing their best to make sure that this continues. They have also been well respected members of the community for many years and support a great many community projects. Yes this is a big building but its nothing like the size of the one at Janetstown in fact it's a third lower. The planning officers prefer these buildings to be light colours so that they blend in with the skyline (as the DFR dome!). Mr Nicolson may have said he would never build on this land, but at the time, he probably thought, like us all, that we'd all be at Dounreay until we retire - he could easily retire and take his money, instead he's trying to ensure the future of his workforce and their community - give him a break! We need more companies taking this kind of action or within a very short period of time there is not going to be a viable workforce in Caithness - then your houses will really be worth buttons
okay you say this building should be on an industrial estate - tell that to Petrie the Painter who has to wait for the scottish executive to tell him if his building can go ahead on an industrial estate!
I know that legally no one is entitled to a view, but I'm pretty sure you are entitled to light. Earlier in this thread it was mentioned that one lady will have her light cut off. If anyone else's light is threatened, I would think they have valid reasons for objection.
Funny how no one thinks of Dounreay in the same terms as objectors to the Bower thing on this thread. Is it because most of us weren't around before Dounreay existed and it's been part of Caithness for 50 years?
(I don't live in Bower so I don't really need to express an opinion - I can see both sides though I think the development should be on an industrial site since Nicolson's is an industry. The central aspect of Bower argument doesn't wash - Dounreay is hardly central and no one has a problem getting there, even though some have an hour and a half bus ride to it.)
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