View Full Version : Migrant workers
Just read in the paper that 80% of all new jobs created by the government since 1997 have gone to migrant workers.
I find this shocking that all these jobs have gone to "foreigners".
It states its due to the low pay. I cant undertsand that ,i wouldve thought that with working tax credit etc even on minimum wage you can still take home a decent amount.I'm not on minimum wage but my pay is not "through the roof" and I would rather work than claim benefits.
Its a bad reflection on society when this massive percentage of migrants will take the jobs it seems us British deem lowly.
Maybe Britain is just getting lazy??
Maybe Britain is just getting lazy??
I dont think it is Britain getting lazy, from what I can gather it is more the 'the job is beneath me let an incomer do it.' type of mentality.
I dont think it is Britain getting lazy, from what I can gather it is more the 'the job is beneath me let an incomer do it.' type of mentality.
Reluctantly I agree with you its such a shame and bad reflection on our society.
They will do the jobs that no one else wants then when they do it people complain.
I mean comeon, 1.7 million jobs and only 300,00 filled by british workers, it's a disgrace and more to do with businesses looking for the cheap option and less to do with a lazy british workforce, buy into the myth of lazy brits if you wish but continue to say that if you become unemployed and can't get a sniff of a job for the migrants. The one that makes me laugh is they will do the jobs the locals don't want, what a load of rubbish.
I mean comeon, 1.7 million jobs and only 300,00 filled by british workers, it's a disgrace and more to do with businesses looking for the cheap option and less to do with a lazy british workforce, buy into the myth of lazy brits if you wish but continue to say that if you become unemployed and can't get a sniff of a job for the migrants. The one that makes me laugh is they will do the jobs the locals don't want, what a load of rubbish.
I think I know what you are saying here, but I would be glad if you could repeat it with a bit more punctuation so that I can be sure that I really do agree with you.
No offence, but I am struggling to separate some of your ideas!:(
karia
I think I know what you are saying here, but I would be glad if you could repeat it with a bit more punctuation so that I can be sure that I really do agree with you.
No offence, but I am struggling to separate some of your ideas!:(
kariaI didn't think I was that illiterate but It's the best I can do, maybe you could rewrite it in the vein you thought it was intended and I could tell you if you were right or wrong.;)
northener
11-Dec-07, 22:54
I mean comeon, 1.7 million jobs and only 300,00 filled by british workers, it's a disgrace and more to do with businesses looking for the cheap option and less to do with a lazy british workforce, buy into the myth of lazy brits if you wish but continue to say that if you become unemployed and can't get a sniff of a job for the migrants. The one that makes me laugh is they will do the jobs the locals don't want, what a load of rubbish.
Not all businesses fall into the 'greedy' category.
.
Not all businesses fall into the 'greedy' category.
.Probably not all, maybe 1.2million. The thing is, not all jobs that are filled by migrants are undesirable to the british workforce. To say otherwise is utter rubbish and the beginning of the end.
I mean comeon, 1.7 million jobs and only 300,00 filled by british workers, it's a disgrace and more to do with businesses looking for the cheap option and less to do with a lazy british workforce, buy into the myth of lazy brits if you wish but continue to say that if you become unemployed and can't get a sniff of a job for the migrants. The one that makes me laugh is they will do the jobs the locals don't want, what a load of rubbish.
Granted there may be a few dishonest employers, but i think they are way in the minority.
I do believe it is because of peoples attitudes and incomers are doing the jobs locals don't want, well why should I take a job that pays minimum wage when they can recieve more from the goverment handouts, type of attitude.
I am sure it has been said in previous threads, years gone by people were ashamed to be on the dole, now peeps boast about the new tv, car, etc they get from handouts.
luskentyre
11-Dec-07, 23:19
Probably not all, maybe 1.2million. The thing is, not all jobs that are filled by migrants are undesirable to the british workforce. To say otherwise is utter rubbish and the beginning of the end.
So, why do you think the jobs are going to migrants then? What have they got that indigenous applicants don't have?
So, why do you think the jobs are going to migrants then? What have they got that indigenous applicants don't have?The ability and willingness to do a job for less than the going rate, a boon to employers wishing to have wages driven down, a scale of wages that british unions have fought for years to attain. The notion that they are somehow superior to our own workforce is a fabrication also, some are hardworking, some are extremely lazy once they are settled in.
On one hand you have to admire anyone who travels across the seas leaving behind everything to get ahead.
Not all the jobs being taken are undesirable - i was due to do some 'well paid' specialist tiling work in the new year. I phoned the company up regarding another issue to find they recently employed a Pole (less than half of what I'd get) and I'd not be needed.
You can't compete against this - of course this will never effect the legislators. Our overheads are related to our society theirs are not.
On one hand you have to admire anyone who travels across the seas leaving behind everything to get ahead.
Not all the jobs being taken are undesirable - i was due to do some 'well paid' specialist tiling work in the new year. I phoned the company up regarding another issue to find they recently employed a Pole (less than half of what I'd get) and I'd not be needed.
You can't compete against this - of course this will never effect the legislators. Our overheads are related to our society theirs are not.Precisely my point. Why would a company pay you the going rate when they can get a migrant to do the job at half the price? It makes perfect sense financially for these companies to do this but does it make it right?
Camel Spider
12-Dec-07, 00:46
http://www.iht.com/articles/2006/11/16/news/migrate.php
Lets all go to Poland !!, plenty of work there apparently .. :roll:
Seriously though this is happening Offshore as well with specialist agencies for services like catering, having been on a rig where this was happening it is not good if youre a Brit .. the food was rank. The stewardesses were VERY easy on the eye though, another good reason to head for Poland.
At the end of the day though most migrants are getting paid what Brits are paid. I know a lad who is Manager of a fish processing operation and he says the the Poles are the hardest workers he has ever had. He maintains that Brits turn their nose up at the work and push the limits when they do work. I believe that if you want to work you can get something, while I dont doubt that there are a lot of hard working Brits who cant get a chance I have met a few specimens of the type that believe the world owes them a living.
At the end of the day though most migrants are getting paid what Brits are paid. I know a lad who is Manager of a fish processing operation and he says the the Poles are the hardest workers he has ever had. He maintains that Brits turn their nose up at the work and push the limits when they do work. I believe that if you want to work you can get something, while I dont doubt that there are a lot of hard working Brits who cant get a chance I have met a few specimens of the type that believe the world owes them a living.
totally agree with you there camel spider.
Boozeburglar
12-Dec-07, 01:28
We need an increased workforce to sustain economic growth.
Our natural population growth is falling, so the immigrant workers make up the deficit.
So what's the beef?
http://www.iht.com/articles/2006/11/16/news/migrate.php
Lets all go to Poland !!, plenty of work there apparently .. :roll:
Seriously though this is happening Offshore as well with specialist agencies for services like catering, having been on a rig where this was happening it is not good if youre a Brit .. the food was rank. The stewardesses were VERY easy on the eye though, another good reason to head for Poland.
At the end of the day though most migrants are getting paid what Brits are paid. I know a lad who is Manager of a fish processing operation and he says the the Poles are the hardest workers he has ever had. He maintains that Brits turn their nose up at the work and push the limits when they do work. I believe that if you want to work you can get something, while I dont doubt that there are a lot of hard working Brits who cant get a chance I have met a few specimens of the type that believe the world owes them a living.
I work offshore and the hardest working steward is a pole. The rooms always spotless, Laundry quick, can't complain at all.
Going out on a limb here, and offering sweeping generalisations, the British mentality and the Polish mentality are very different. "Get as much for doing as little as possible" seems to be the way of my British Stewards. "Work hard, get good money" seems to be the Poles way.
Maybe if the benefit system wasn't so easy in the uk we'd have a better work ethic.
Camel Spider
12-Dec-07, 02:23
The only cause for complaint I had was with the cooks, the food was awful. Stewardesses were brilliant, no complaints with them .. just the scoff.
Maybe if the benefit system wasn't so easy in the uk we'd have a better work ethic.
I think you have hit the nail squarely on the head there.
The only reason the foriegn workers are doing the jobs is because no one else wants to do it because the money is not enough to cover the bills.
If u have a family and and a morgage the min wage is not enough to live on its sad but its the way the world is
What i find is an absolte disgrace is when u see some of the firms in aberdeen the local workers get more money than the foriegn workers in the same firm doing the same job and vast amount of the foriegn workers are good workers and they dont moan there just glad to have a job.
But for me the uk is far to much a soft society as a whole thats why all these foriegners are coming here so they get a council house and can claim benifits as well the foriegners will get a council house before a local?.
But the whole immagration rules are a joke all foriegners should be able to speak english.have a health check before comming to uk so they dont put a strain on the nhs and there should be a time limit on there work visa to control the numbers
i was talking about this the other day its amazing how aberdeen is covered in polish workers and u still see 10 pages of jobs every friday without fail
NickInTheNorth
12-Dec-07, 11:09
Maybe if the benefit system wasn't so easy in the uk we'd have a better work ethic.
I wish people would stop perpetuating the myth that the benefits system in the UK is easy. It ain't!
When you combine the very difficult benefit system with the appalling low pay rates driven by the minimum wage legislation; for many many families taking a job means far less money coming in, often too little to exist on.
connieb19
12-Dec-07, 19:35
I wish people would stop perpetuating the myth that the benefits system in the UK is easy. It ain't!
When you combine the very difficult benefit system with the appalling low pay rates driven by the minimum wage legislation; for many many families taking a job means far less money coming in, often too little to exist on.
If taking a job means families have less coming in than if they stay on benefits then sorry but to me that means that the benefits system IS too easy. No-one should ever be better off staying on benefits. Even people earning minimum wage get tax credits which takes their earnings up to a reasonable amount.
If benefits only provided people with the necessities rather than all the luxuries they've gotten used to then they might be more keen to work.
I'm sick of the amount of people I have heard openly admitting they don't want to work because they are better off on the dole. Why is it that some people think it is their right to have other people working to support their families?
NickInTheNorth
12-Dec-07, 19:51
If taking a job means families have less coming in than if they stay on benefits then sorry but to me that means that the benefits system IS too easy. No-one should ever be better off staying on benefits. Even people earning minimum wage get tax credits which takes their earnings up to a reasonable amount.
If benefits only provided people with the necessities rather than all the luxuries they've gotten used to then they might be more keen to work.
I'm sick of the amount of people I have heard openly admitting they don't want to work because they are better off on the dole. Why is it that some people think it is their right to have other people working to support their families?
I should firstly say I completely agree that no-one should be better off staying on benefits, the fact that they can be does not indicate that the benefits regime is too generous, rather that the whole wage structure in the UK is now designed to maintain an underclass of virtual slaves.
What luxuries exactly do people on benefits enjoy?
If we lived in a society in which there was a little more compassion and a lot less greed then we would all be better off.
You clearly don't know anything about living on low wages / benefits. I can assure you it is no bed of roses.
You think someone should take a job which (even when topped up by tax credits) does not provide sufficient for a their family to exist on?
One tiny wee fact for you. If someone receives working tax credit, then no matter what the total earnings are (even if less than on benefits) they are no longer eligible to free school meals. That is a ridiculous situation.
Please tell me what it is like living in an ivory tower, I've never had the privilege.
ive just come back from Poland. I was sitting thinking to myself 6 months ago about all the lonely housewives over there whos husbands are over here. They have needs you know!!! I got a well paid job and kept myself busy in the evenings, they aint half bad cooks either these Polish birds.Im only home for the festive period and a much needed rest then im back on the case in the new year. ho ho ho!!!I didn't think there were any well paid jobs in Poland.
What luxuries exactly do people on benefits enjoy?
One tiny wee fact for you. If someone receives working tax credit, then no matter what the total earnings are (even if less than on benefits) they are no longer eligible to free school meals. That is a ridiculous situation.
Good question.
Any genuine claimant is not living in luxury.
Free school meals should be given to those claiming WTC, up until April 2006 you could claim a school clothing grant whilst recieving WTC.
Camel Spider
12-Dec-07, 21:31
I should firstly say I completely agree that no-one should be better off staying on benefits, the fact that they can be does not indicate that the benefits regime is too generous, rather that the whole wage structure in the UK is now designed to maintain an underclass of virtual slaves.
What luxuries exactly do people on benefits enjoy?
If we lived in a society in which there was a little more compassion and a lot less greed then we would all be better off.
You clearly don't know anything about living on low wages / benefits. I can assure you it is no bed of roses.
You think someone should take a job which (even when topped up by tax credits) does not provide sufficient for a their family to exist on?
One tiny wee fact for you. If someone receives working tax credit, then no matter what the total earnings are (even if less than on benefits) they are no longer eligible to free school meals. That is a ridiculous situation.
Please tell me what it is like living in an ivory tower, I've never had the privilege.
While I realise the system has let you down lately you also have to acknowledge that there are incredibly workshy people out there who dont want to work. These are often the first people to complain about migrant workers. I also resent the implication that the rest of us have it easy. I have paid for every course myself to get where I am today (about 8k) and I am absolutely hammered on Tax,(40%). Fair enough I have a good living now but I damn well worked hard and sacrificed for it. I had to take ANY job to get the cash together for my courses, I had a goal and NOTHING was going to stop me going for it. I swept the streets at one point and was openly laughed at. Benefit money doesnt fall out of the sky you know, it comes from hard working people like myself.
True story for you .. Last year I was laid off and couldnt get work for 7 weeks. I used my own money as far as I could but I had to sign on for three weeks. I had left it as late as I could but I had forgotten to set money aside for my medical. I asked the Job Centre for help with a £90 medical and was told no, I said that I would willingly pay it back as it was only a matter of time before I got back Offshore, still I was told no. I had to use the £100 I got to keep me for two weeks to pay my medical, I lived on tea and toast. Funny thing is they would have paid if I had been unemployed for six months but apparently if you are a hard worker then tough. I can take you to a lad in Wick who has had his Driving Licence, Offshore Survival, and Offshore Medical paid for him by the DWP and has never set foot on a rig or held a driving job, in fact ANY job for more than a month in living memory. Another lad is on Disability for a specific injury yet he seems quite able to clamber over cars doing homers for people. Makes me sick.
So do I have a problem with migrants coming in and working hard, paying in to the country and trying to better themselves ??, not a bit of it. It isnt their fault that they possess the character that some Brits lack.
If someone cant work because of a genuine disability then they should be looked after, I have absolutely no qualms about that. However, I dont feel compassion for those who dont want to work and sit feeling sorry for themselves, I am not here to work to keep them in heat, food and light. They need to quit the pity party and get out there and start trying to better themselves. I would happily help them in that instance. I worked a job that couldnt keep my family at one point. I just got another and worked two jobs !!
There is always a way out.
I stress this is not an opinion on you Nick, I just replied to your post and obviously I dont know your circumstances, its just the way I look at this based on my own experiences.
NickInTheNorth
12-Dec-07, 21:40
There is always a way out.
I stress this is not an opinion on you Nick, I just replied to your post and obviously I dont know your circumstances, its just the way I look at this based on my own experiences.
No worries, I actually agree with most of what you say. Indeed I have worked ridiculously hard for most of my life. And am still very willing to do so.
But believe me, it is a little naive to say there is always a way out. Sometimes there aint.
northener
12-Dec-07, 22:00
While I realise the system has let you down lately you also have to acknowledge that there are incredibly workshy people out there who dont want to work. These are often the first people to complain about migrant workers. I also resent the implication that the rest of us have it easy. I have paid for every course myself to get where I am today (about 8k) and I am absolutely hammered on Tax,(40%). Fair enough I have a good living now but I damn well worked hard and sacrificed for it. I had to take ANY job to get the cash together for my courses, I had a goal and NOTHING was going to stop me going for it. I swept the streets at one point and was openly laughed at. Benefit money doesnt fall out of the sky you know, it comes from hard working people like myself.
True story for you .. Last year I was laid off and couldnt get work for 7 weeks. I used my own money as far as I could but I had to sign on for three weeks. I had left it as late as I could but I had forgotten to set money aside for my medical. I asked the Job Centre for help with a £90 medical and was told no, I said that I would willingly pay it back as it was only a matter of time before I got back Offshore, still I was told no. I had to use the £100 I got to keep me for two weeks to pay my medical, I lived on tea and toast. Funny thing is they would have paid if I had been unemployed for six months but apparently if you are a hard worker then tough. I can take you to a lad in Wick who has had his Driving Licence, Offshore Survival, and Offshore Medical paid for him by the DWP and has never set foot on a rig or held a driving job, in fact ANY job for more than a month in living memory. Another lad is on Disability for a specific injury yet he seems quite able to clamber over cars doing homers for people. Makes me sick.
So do I have a problem with migrants coming in and working hard, paying in to the country and trying to better themselves ??, not a bit of it. It isnt their fault that they possess the character that some Brits lack.
If someone cant work because of a genuine disability then they should be looked after, I have absolutely no qualms about that. However, I dont feel compassion for those who dont want to work and sit feeling sorry for themselves, I am not here to work to keep them in heat, food and light. They need to quit the pity party and get out there and start trying to better themselves. I would happily help them in that instance. I worked a job that couldnt keep my family at one point. I just got another and worked two jobs !!
There is always a way out.
I stress this is not an opinion on you Nick, I just replied to your post and obviously I dont know your circumstances, its just the way I look at this based on my own experiences.
Well put, Camel person!
NickintheNorth, keep pushing. Don't let the system get you down.
.
I thought I was in Poland today - in the local John Lewis department store it seemed to be full of Polish and other east Europeans. Almost like being on holiday without spending any money!
Polish supermarkets are opening up all over the place around here as well - not a problem IMO - all that yummy food. We had an influx of Poles over 60 years ago to help us and many stayed behind and integrated fully into UK society.
If Polish workers are coming over to earn money, good on them. Someone I work with moonlights as a cleaning supervisor and all his team are Poles. They work hard, never take sickies, are on time and don't stand around chatting.
Now then, where did I put my Zywiecka Sausage...
some very interesting points of view on the topic.
I still think the government needs to limit the amount of Incomers.
The government should "force" those that can work to work. I was unemployed for 2 years and admit I got lazy and didnt fight as hard for a job. Then i decided that i wanted to provide for my family got off my butt and pushed for everything and I mean everything that was going. Within 2 months I was employed full time, crap wages but that was me back on the employment ladder and I havent looked back since.
I was a skilled worker with a trade who used to look down my nose at menial jobs.
It was a menial job i took and I am glad I did as it got me back up the ladder and out of the habit.
This is obviously the mentality of the migrants,it works for them and it worked for me(if you pardon the pun)
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