View Full Version : Remove me from the Family Tree!
I have decided to remove myself from my family tree.
Should any of my offspring wish to rejoin, far be it from me to stand in their way, however I would hope they respect my wishes.
I realize that would leave a gap in the tree. I am prepared to compromise to the extent that where my branch is pruned off an asterisk be inserted, directing the reader to an appropriate footnote.
The footnote would carry a dire warning from my solicitor threatening to prosecute to the limits of the law - and beyond - any attempt to reinstate me. I am working on the precise phrasing of the phrase.
(Perhaps a curse - a la Harry Potter - would do rather nicely.)
The thing about family trees is that they constitute an attack upon the dead by the living.And let's face it there is a lot of muck-raking going on. The glee with which family tree enthusiasts announce their latest findings - we're related to Bloody Claverhouse!!!! - or Jesse James!!! - or Atilla the Hun ??? - is depressing.
In the long run everyone is related to everybody else via DNA and that should be enough. To paraphrase the great Groucho - I would not wish to be part of a family tree that would accept me as a member.
And dont tell me it's all relative....
tenabowla
06-Dec-07, 17:09
And the drive behind this outburst is??
ahhh Rich, feeling down today are we? Come on tell us, Who stole your scone then?
What is that all about???? very confused:confused
It is a blow against the cult of ancestor worship.
It is a blow against the cult of ancestor worship.
I am sure you're taking it all far too seriously. :lol:
tenabowla
06-Dec-07, 17:16
Aw well he got his response, must admit there are more harmfull pastimes though.
I have decided to remove myself from my family tree.
Should any of my offspring wish to rejoin, far be it from me to stand in their way, however I would hope they respect my wishes.
I realize that would leave a gap in the tree. I am prepared to compromise to the extent that where my branch is pruned off an asterisk be inserted, directing the reader to an appropriate footnote.
The footnote would carry a dire warning from my solicitor threatening to prosecute to the limits of the law - and beyond - any attempt to reinstate me. I am working on the precise phrasing of the phrase.
(Perhaps a curse - a la Harry Potter - would do rather nicely.)
The thing about family trees is that they constitute an attack upon the dead by the living.And let's face it there is a lot of muck-raking going on. The glee with which family tree enthusiasts announce their latest findings - we're related to Bloody Claverhouse!!!! - or Jesse James!!! - or Atilla the Hun ??? - is depressing.
In the long run everyone is related to everybody else via DNA and that should be enough. To paraphrase the great Groucho - I would not wish to be part of a family tree that would accept me as a member.
And dont tell me it's all relative....
Are you sure that this isn't an excuse to get out of having to shovel the snow that ladens the streets of your fair city.
What I don't understand is why people indulge in this cult of the dead.
The only practical reason is to check out what loathsome diseases run in your family, so you can give your family doctor a heads up.
But most death certificates - especially those of 100 years ago are woefully lacking in information like that.
DNA will govern the shape of your nose or chin or the type of wax you have in your ears and that's that for most of us.
So what is driving this genealogical questing?
Family trees come in two versions. One is the Almanac de Gotha which was a sort of guide to the aristocratic stud farm. The crowned heads of Europe could see who was related to Charlemagne and therefore acceptable as breeding stock. (Too bad about the haemophilia!)
The second version comes from people who are really not important but are seeking to bolster their self esteem. Welcome to the great middle class ancestor biz!
tenabowla
06-Dec-07, 17:47
Aye you are struggling to wind them up boy!!!!!!!!!
Camel Spider
06-Dec-07, 18:23
I'll have a pint of what Rich has had .. ;)
To be honest I think that rich has made some very valid points there..we should not seek to enrich our personal standing by alluding to our forebears rather work on being the best person we can be.
We should take neither credit nor blame for what they did.:)
Karia
So what is driving this genealogical questing?
Could it be interest?:confused
we should not seek to enrich our personal standing by alluding to our forebears rather work on being the best person we can be.
Do you think one compromises the other?:confused
well I for one take pride in my ancestors and what they were, humble farm labourers, soldiers,sailors,and nurses and I take also take pride in my family tree and my place on it. But each to their own, the past and your ancestors play some part in shaping who you are today, even if its just through beliefs or traditions passed on down through the years.
I would just leaf him to get on with it and let him branch out on his own!:D
[quote=Rheghead;Do you think one compromises the other?:confused[/quote]
Not unless you allow it to make you lazy and rest on your laurels basking in what a wonderful lineage you have!
Don't misunderstand, I am well proud of my family and have some interest in what previous generations of it did and who they were.
I can still think rich had some valid points though!:D
Karia
I find this rather strange to say the least!
But if thats the way he wants it then so be it.
personally I wouldnt remove myself from future trees as I would like my family to feel proud of me and look at my achievements etc, even if I ended up not achieving much at least they could see where i came from and can imagine me as some kind of hero!! :) Hopefully
I must admit to being something of a renegade on this subject of family trees.
My own family - three generations of them have this weird proclivity for cemetries and graveyards. They love reading the faded inscriptions on headstones while the rain and mist swirl around.
For myself I go running in our nearby cemetry here in Toronto and it is probably quite appropriate in one of my advanced years to be running through the graveyard.
(I do not stop to read any inscriptions - well hardly any. Last year there was a big Hell's Angel funeral and one could hardly miss all the Harleys and the tattoes and the leather. Interestingly whatever or whoever it was they were burying was right next to the grave of MacKenzie King who was Canadian prime minister throughout the war. I think he was the PM who used to communicate with his dead dog by using a ouija board. But I take no interest in any of this.)
The point I wish to make is that with a family tree you are taking the cemetry home with you. In fact you are taking several score of cemetries home.
I find this morbid.
And dont get me started on the connection between HISTORY and family trees.
Family trees are for people who hate history, dont understand it and wish to control it. (Family trees are to history as Reader's Digest Condensed Books are to literature.)
I could go on....
northener
06-Dec-07, 20:43
Rich, just sit on the offending branch and saw it off.
Make sure you're sat on the correct bit of the branch!
If you decided to 'excommunicate' yourself from the whole of your family tree, would it be correct to say that you had 'fallen out' of your tree?;)
Northener- what a nice thought!
I prefer to think to think of myself dropping out of a tree filled with gibbering apes and heading off across the African Savana with my harem - the ancestor of you all!
Rich,
Although I am into Family History and have found it interesting, I can empathise with your point of view.
I feel the same about football. I can't see the point in people getting worked up to the degree that they do over it.
I enjoy a good going game on the TV if nothing else takes my fancy and can appreciate the skills etc. but I have no allegiance to any particular team.
In any case, the teams are such big business nowadays that you would be as well buying tickets to see Asda Rovers playing Tesco United.
However, I would not disparage the sport, its participants or its spectators just because I don't like it to the same degree as others.
Each to his own.
But Dusty, the critcal faculty needs to be given a work out from time to time. Have you never had one of those mornings where the cat hides under the sofa and the rest of the family flees and you are literally looking round for a target.
Don't be too nice. We humans didn't get where we are today by niceness.
Just consider the sheer amount of clutter caused by the document hoard that your family history enthusiast has bestrewn all over the living room floor.
Tell them "I am Atilla the slayer of millions " come to lay waste your petty archive of forgotten church of scotland ministers, of minor functionaries in minor jobs, of all the postmen and engine drivers and school teachers - and not a murderer or a musician among them to enliven the record of tedium and mediocrity that is everyone's family history..
Tell your genealogist spouse:"The only member of the family I wish was history is YOUR MOTHER."
And then take the mess, put it in a steamer trunk, have it delivered to P&O to go to Shanghai - bill the whole fiasco to your mother in law and if it comes back it was meant to and if it doesn't then hip, hip hooray!
Soooo, not all that keen on it then? :D
I've got a murderer and a suspected murderer in my family history. It's something I allude to when the wife starts getting uppity, so there is gain to be had from the hobby sometimes! (as if I would dare).
However, on the other hand, my wife had already sorted out my ancestry and recons I am the spawn of Satan. So far I have been unable to locate any documentation at Register House to support this assertion and the IGI has revealed nothing in that direction either.
Mother-in-laws, steamer trunks, Shanghai! I think I've just had an idea.
What I don't understand is why people indulge in this cult of the dead.
The only practical reason is to check out what loathsome diseases run in your family, so you can give your family doctor a heads up.
But most death certificates - especially those of 100 years ago are woefully lacking in information like that.
DNA will govern the shape of your nose or chin or the type of wax you have in your ears and that's that for most of us.
So what is driving this genealogical questing?
Family trees come in two versions. One is the Almanac de Gotha which was a sort of guide to the aristocratic stud farm. The crowned heads of Europe could see who was related to Charlemagne and therefore acceptable as breeding stock. (Too bad about the haemophilia!)
The second version comes from people who are really not important but are seeking to bolster their self esteem. Welcome to the great middle class ancestor biz!
Ah, the lovely genogram, ( http://www.genopro.com/genogram/symbols/ (http://forum.caithness.org/go.php?url=http://www.genopro.com/genogram/symbols/)) that recorder of medical history that links genetic traits and psychological weaknesses. Yes, it plays a vital role in DNA genealogy. But it is not what a family tree is meant to be. Genogram charts are dry hunks of paper. But, the word “tree” suggests life. Family trees are dynamic.
The family tree records relationships. The tree records the ways in which people worked together within the family and without the family as contributors to society. The trees of many families allow historians to paint a picture of social life in times past and present. These trees exist side by side in a complex forest. Natural forests change, they mature. Sometimes they get swept away by fire. Ecologists can learn very much about the history of an area by studying the trees. Geologists can learn much about ancient history by studying vegetative fossils. So too family trees can give those who study these things some clues as to what was going on within a society of years past.
PS - As one who is about to become a mother-in-law is there some way I can arrange for my trip to Shanghi be in a comfortable steamer trunk?
It's a hobby. If you don't like it don't do it. Bit like skydiving - no one forces people to jump out of a plane. They do it because they enjoy it. Like wise people looking into their family history.
Obviously the answers you got back in August last year when you asked the same question didn't satisfy you...........
http://forum.caithness.org/showthread.php?t=13800
I prefer to think to think of myself dropping out of a tree filled with gibbering apes and heading off across the African Savana with my harem - the ancestor of you all!
Rich - was thinking along the same lines - after all, I'm probably descended from Lucy, that teensy-weensy hominid, and one day when I retire and have bags of time I'll trace all my aunties etc. back to her.
Someone once said to me: "When you're dead, no one past your grandchildren (if you're lucky) will even remember you." A chilling thought - maybe it drives the geneaologists onwards.
Rich - was thinking along the same lines - after all, I'm probably descended from Lucy, that teensy-weensy hominid, and one day when I retire and have bags of time I'll trace all my aunties etc. back to her.
The probability is extremely remote. However I am still waiting on my MtDNA test kit...[evil]
However I am still waiting on my MtDNA test kit...[evil]
What?
Extra words extra words post too short
What?
Extra words extra words post too short
I have ordered a MtDNA test kit through ancestry.co.uk. It promises to tell me what my broad 'ethnic' genetic background is. I'm hoping on a bit of everything really, a real mongrel is what I want to be but I'm afraid it is going to be 100% boring northern European:(
a real mongrel is what I want to be but I'm afraid it is going to be 100% boring northern European:(
Hi. Maybe in order to stay a Mongrel you shouldn't be ordering this kit. It'll narrow it down to MacLeod or Sidebottom or something.
LOL Rich, thankyou for a good laugh, you are very good at throwing a vitrual pebble into the .Org pool, and I can imagine you sitting back there in Toronto and laughing. Keep up the good work Rich[lol]
What I don't understand is why people indulge in this cult of the dead.
Looking back over history from neanderthal graves through to the Egyptian pyramids, iron age burial mounds to the great sarcophaguses of the medieval period, mankind has always indulged in a 'cult' of the dead of some sort, it is perfectly normal and human. I watched a programme on it which told the story that the cult of the dead was instrumental in human brain development. The simple act of putting a photo of a dead relative on the mantlepiece is a modern part of that 'cult' of the dead.
It is unconciously says 'if they can go through death then I can also', which can be a great comfort for a lot of people.
So for a lot of people, looking for lost relatives may form part of that basic human need to represent people who have gone to the other side. Certainly the age distribution of Genesreunited and ancestry.co.uk members supports the idea that people who are middle aged and beyond are thinking more about their own death. And genealogy may be an innocent and rewarding outlet for their fear of the unknown.
The goal of genealogical research might for some people mean participating in a 'cult of the dead'.
I prefer to interpret it as a celebration of life. A family tree portrays life. The names recorded on those branches were folks with energy and ideas and creativity and compassion - life!!!!! Yes, they had foibles, but that is also a testament to life.
The goal of genealogical research might for some people mean participating in a 'cult of the dead'.
I prefer to interpret it as a celebration of life. A family tree portrays life. The names recorded on those branches were folks with energy and ideas and creativity and compassion - life!!!!! Yes, they had foibles, but that is also a testament to life.
So people who research their own genealogy for hours and hours on end at their computer do actually have a 'life' afterall?:confused :D
Oh well, you can't have a cult of the dead without having a life first, I suppose.
It's a hobby. If you don't like it don't do it. Bit like skydiving - no one forces people to jump out of a plane. They do it because they enjoy it. Like wise people looking into their family history.
I agree MadPict. I only got into researching my family history last year because I wanted an absorbing hobby to get me through a rather trying time. What I enjoy as much as anything is the puzzle solving - fitting in more pieces of the jigsaw - and the social history. I've learned a lot. :)
I didn't expect, and certainly haven't found, anybody famous or "interesting" in the accepted sense. It hasn't been at all like "Who do you think you are?" on TV! My ancestors were all farmers, fisherfolk, weavers, shoemakers....finding out a bit about their lives and times has been quite humbling however.
I don't think I'm obsessed with dead people! But as an only child with no living relatives older than me (yes, I am middle aged) I did want to fill in gaps in my knowledge and understanding of even my parents' and grandparents' generation. So many half known facts from my childhood have fallen into place and I'm in touch with assorted cousins that I'd not known I had.
And after all, if it wasn't for my ancestors, I and my children, just wouldn't be here...;)
I have a copy of my family tree (not researched by me, I haven't got the patience) and having been brought up within a strict moral code, find it hilarious to connect marriage dates with first born's date of birth! Hehe...;)
tenabowla
07-Dec-07, 12:33
Aye you are struggling to wind them up boy!!!!!!!!!
golach
LOL Rich, thankyou for a good laugh, you are very good at throwing a vitrual pebble into the .Org pool, and I can imagine you sitting back there in Toronto and laughing. Keep up the good work Rich
As I said, good sport when you can get it.
As quoted by your good self, running through grave yards, occassionally reading epitaphs, knowing the history of the prime minister and his dog etc, Careful Rich, you could catch the geneology bug yourself [lol]
It's not about a "Cult of the dead", social history or whether or not I am a mongrel.............I'm just a nosey sod! [lol]
I suppose it will have its good points if it means you will have to send less xmas cards this year to the extended family...
northener
07-Dec-07, 19:52
Chainsawed the tree yet, Rich?:D
Personally, I think the only way to revere the dead ancestors is to have their mummified remains kept in a crouching position, in an alcove, in your lounge.
Or buried under your coffee table and only revealed when you move house.
Would certainly cut down on annoying unwanted visits from the neighbours....
lassieinfife
07-Dec-07, 20:16
Been doing my family tree for about 3 years..eldest daughter started it when she was pregnant but since baby arrived she didn't have time,so as with many things mum took over, I found it filled many a dark winter evening,I live on my own.I have found not just the dead but many living relatives,some living in Caithness that I never knew existed,nobody famous here just a mixture of Scottish and Irish,but fascinating all the same.so dont knock it Rich as its been said before each to their own:lol:
... So what is driving this genealogical questing?
Family trees come in two versions. One is the Almanac de Gotha which was a sort of guide to the aristocratic stud farm. The crowned heads of Europe could see who was related to Charlemagne and therefore acceptable as breeding stock. (Too bad about the haemophilia!)
The second version comes from people who are really not important but are seeking to bolster their self esteem. Welcome to the great middle class ancestor biz!Which version drives your interest rich?
Hi, Moi x, I suppose I find the Almanac approach more interesting.
That's because a couple of years ago I used to read myself to sleep by reading the memoirs of the Duc de St. Simon. (Believe me, if you find it hard to sleep the Duc is the boy to make you drop off.)
He was a French aristocrat of the early part of the 18th century. He spent most of his life gossiping and observing his fellow aristos at court.
One of the constant issues that stirred up the French court was precedence.
You see, not all aristocrats were equal - who entered a room first, who spoke first to the King, who put a fork of food into his mouth first was governed by your family tree.
And this was the cause of all sorts of intrigue as parvenus would try and get ahead.
One of the staggering qualities of St. Simon is that he somehow makes this interesting. (Well, sort of interesting)
The Almanach da Gotha is fun too because the French and Germans fell out with each other over which country could lay claim to most ancestors of Charlemagne. After the Franco Prussian war this dispute became ever more shrill and ridiculous resulting in two different Almanachs - French and German>
If you want to know where the british royal family fit in - they are nowhere, but NOWHERE. The Brit royal family is at best a minor group of insignicants as compared to the French and German Champions - Peppin the short, Barbarossa and Henry the Fowler. Prince Philip (the Greek) was the last straw - a gigolo no less!
At its best the Almanach most resembles those magazines about clebrities that you buy at the supermarket chack out.
As for the other, middle class thing, somebody did our family tree and it was EXCRUTIATING. Nothing but Presbyterian ministers, legions of them, stacked up like so much dead wood. And not a sin among any of them. At least not according to the obits.
PS in case you are wondering why I was reading St. Simon it was because of his connection with the French writer Marcel Proust. They weren't related but Proust was a conniouseur of snobbery.
And that's why I hate family trees. They are for SNOBS!!! (except of course for Orgers who have busy interesting lives and all of whose children are above normal)
What I don't understand is why people indulge in this cult of the dead.
The only practical reason is to check out what loathsome diseases run in your family, so you can give your family doctor a heads up.
But most death certificates - especially those of 100 years ago are woefully lacking in information like that.
DNA will govern the shape of your nose or chin or the type of wax you have in your ears and that's that for most of us.
So what is driving this genealogical questing?
G'day thought i'd better weigh in on this one, ALL OF THE ABOVE
genealogy bought me to the Org where I have made contact with many long lost cousins, i have found the whole experience exhillarating, me auld 3 x great granddaddy David Alexander orphan and 'ditch labourer' of Keiss died of a bowell tumor, his cousin (or nephew not sure which yet) Dr John Alexander signed the death cert, no one died of that disease in our Aussie branch for over a century, so i learnt that the move from keiss to Australia by David's two sons and grandson presented them with different employment prospects and that they may have had back in the auld country, and that we are related to just about everyone in Caithness, dont dwell on it too much though..................
oh by the way, the org continues to amaze, got photos from cuz in Caithness today (thnx), and contacted by another antipodean relative from CAI, last night, the emails came within an hour of each other, almost making up for over one hundred years of crofter DIASPORA....:)
Much adoo about nothing I'd say !!
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