Air weapons

[Rheghead]

OK, it was a nasty thing to happen to a bairn but do we really need more legislation on airgun control?

[lassieinfife]

OK, it was a nasty thing to happen to a bairn but do we really need more legislation on airgun control?


I wonder if they really should be used out with gun clubs?

[Naefearjustbeer]

we need to have the current laws enforced to the full extent of the law.

[Liz]

OK, it was a nasty thing to happen to a bairn but do we really need more legislation on airgun control?


I wonder if they really should be used out with gun clubs?

I don't think they should be used outwith gun clubs.

I have met people with guns when out for a walk in the country and seen them taking pot shots at birds etc. Shooting to kill is bad enough but what if they injure a wild bird or animal?!!!! [mad] The poor thing is going to suffer a long and painful death.



Yes there may be 'responsible' gun owners but I'm afraid guns aren't toys and so the laws must be tightened.

[Whitewater]

This is a very difficult question to answer. Air pistols/rifles can be very dangerous in the wrong or irresponsible hands, many have the same velocity as 0.22 rifles, perhaps even a bit more. When they are used in the back garden to shoot at targets that is OK as long as you hit the target, what happens when you miss, where does the pellet go???

I remember in my young days having an air gun and taking pot shots at street lights, milk bottles, tin cans etc. we did have enough sense not to point it at ourselves, cats or dogs, but a scorrie was a legimate target in our minds. I shudder to think of it now and where the pellets ended up after our pot shots, it never entered our minds that perhaps if we missed we may have hit a bairn.

I think there should be proper ranges for them, it will remove the temptation for young people to take aim at what to there mind is a legimate target, not realising the consequences if they miss and the pellet goes astray

[Riffman]

This is a very difficult question to answer. Air pistols/rifles can be very dangerous in the wrong or irresponsible hands, many have the same velocity as 0.22 rifles, perhaps even a bit more. When they are used in the back garden to shoot at targets that is OK as long as you hit the target, what happens when you miss, where does the pellet go???

I remember in my young days having an air gun and taking pot shots at street lights, milk bottles, tin cans etc. we did have enough sense not to point it at ourselves, cats or dogs, but a scorrie was a legimate target in our minds. I shudder to think of it now and where the pellets ended up after our pot shots, it never entered our minds that perhaps if we missed we may have hit a bairn.

I think there should be proper ranges for them, it will remove the temptation for young people to take aim at what to there mind is a legimate target, not realising the consequences if they miss and the pellet goes astray

Taking pot shots eh? Then you were most likely breaking the laws which were already in place since 1967 and before.

As for having the same muzzle velocity as a .22LR, yes that is semi correct. A .177 @ 12 ft/lb will have a velocity of about 850 ft/s , roughly about the same as a sub-sonic .22LR.

BUT they have very different power levels, as the .22LR developes about 110 ft/lb, and the .177 12 ft/lbs.

As for shooting in your back garden, that could be illigal if you are within 50 feet of a public highway and by doing so you cause distress. This also means that if the neighbours are not happy, they have every right to complain. You must always have a suitable backstop that will stop the pellets from going over the boundarys of your land.

Most of the problems these days are (im my opinion) caused by ignorance of the law. for example, the kid that got shot in his bedroom: It is illigal for someone under the age of 14 to use an airgun unsupervised, and then only if they have permission from the land owner. It was the parents responsibilty to ensure that the airgun was secured in such a way as to stop it being used my the kids. As much as they would like to move the blame, it was thier fault. I would never let a kid use an airgun unsupervised (as well as the fact it would be illigal), I am not too happy about a 14 year old using one either, but they can in certain places.

Do you all realise that under the ASBA 2004 it is illigal to carry a replica firearm in a public place without good reason? This means that cap guns, toy guns, and bb guns are all illigal to carry in a public place without good reason. But that is beside the point.

If you look at the type of guns used in crime, and offences, you will notice that there are very few top end precharged pneumatics used. Most guns used are cheap ( sub £100) breakbarrel springers.

So this poses the question why? The answer is simple. The cheapest precharged you can get cost £250 (ANGS) and most are in the £400+ bracket. These are far too expensive for the average offender to buy. They also entail the need for some technical knowledge about high pressure air (200 BAR or more) and kids are not really used to working with that... I know myself how much eaiser it is to use a breakbarrel.

A chinese B2 .177 break barrel 12 ft/lb rifle cost only £35... so there you go. Add a £200 tax to all airgun sales and you will see less rifles being used in crimes.

Why the goevenent took CO2 pistols off ticket in '95 I will never understand....they are seriously more dangerous than your average airifle. But I won't start on them.

I agree whole heartedly that we should have clubs, but where are they? I am having problems finding a club here in Perth!! We need to be more socially responsible and to get something sorted out.

Don't forget that the majority of airgun owners use their rifles for vermin and pest control, and not plinking at the public.

The existing laws are harsh, fire an airgun in a public place and you could be facing 6 months in jail AND a £5000 fine! But the Judge could increase that to what he felt was necessary.

Just my thoughs on a bored thursday morning.....

Riffman

[Whitewater]

Hi Riffman, good post, you are obviously into gun law. My pot shot days were mid to late 50's I don't know if the law was in force then or not. (showing my age now). You are correct with your assumption that most or the problems are caused by ignorance of the law. I think it should be compulsory for anybody purchasing an air gun legally to pass a small test/exam and be registered/licenced, this would at least make parents more responsible when buying such items as presents. : :confused

[squidge]

what on earth would make parents want to buy any sort of gun for their Kids? I have never understood that. My 15 year old has asked for an air rifle and a bb gun but the thought of having them in the house just does not appeal to me at all. I jsut say he cant have one and thats the end of that

[Naefearjustbeer]

But how often does someone get that kind of punishment? They don't unless they have fired the gun and seriously injured or killed another human. If these thugs with guns got some jail time for the more minor offences they might think twice about what they are doing.
Airguns have a legitimate use and responsible gun owner would not let youngsters run around with these things if they have no legitimate use for them. I was brought up around guns of varying types and I was taught from quite a young age to respect them and that means not pointing them at someone even if unloaded for a joke. If you want to do that round up your friends and go paintballing.




The existing laws are harsh, fire an airgun in a public place and you could be facing 6 months in jail AND a £5000 fine! But the Judge could increase that to what he felt was necessary.



Riffman

[Riffman]

Yes I try to keep up to date with the law, I belong to BASA ( http://www.airgunshooting.org/) which keeps you up to date on shooting laws and regs and also gives you £2m shooting insurance in case of accidents. A must for every responsible airgunner.

The current age limits are fine, but most people do not know them, or ignore them. A person under the age of 14 can NEVER use an airgun unsupervised at any time, a wise decision you will agree. A person aged 14 or over can use one unsupervised providing they are on land where they have permission to be. Airguns or pellets cannot be bought by someone under the age of 17, (but I have seen people younger being served...shame on the shop!).

So it all boils down to ignorance of the laws, and not understanding the dangers of airguns.


Riffman

[marion]

what on earth would make parents want to buy any sort of gun for their Kids? I have never understood that. My 15 year old has asked for an air rifle and a bb gun but the thought of having them in the house just does not appeal to me at all. I jsut say he cant have one and thats the end of that

The words of a responsible parent.

[Biker]

I shudder to think of it now and where the pellets ended up after our pot shots, it never entered our minds that perhaps if we missed we may have hit a bairn.

I think there should be proper ranges for them, it will remove the temptation for young people to take aim at what to there mind is a legimate target, not realising the consequences if they miss and the pellet goes astray

Lets be clear here, as I understand it the man responsible for killing the child had aimed at the person holding the child! I do not think this in anyones definition this can be described as a legitamate target or 'Potshot'as Whitewater puts it!

If you just supply ranges then more kids will get guns as the parents will assume them safe and so the air weapons could well become more available. And the kids will soon tire of paper targets!

To own a weapon should be accompanied by the responsibility that goes along with it and that I am afraid come from the parents. I was brought up to have a healthy respect for guns/rifles, even toy guns! I had a shotgun from an early age, supervised at all times and held a shotgun certificate. I have been shooting for many years and even as a youngster would unload and 'break' my gun if I thought it was a dubious situation, even if adults around me felt it okay! I had the weapon and I felt reponsible. I was taught never to point a loaded or unloaded weapon at people, just in case.

Guns clubs and responsible parents are the way forward not just ranges. Legislation is only as good as the ability of the police to enforce it. Just about anything is a deadly weapon in the right hands. What about the recent news report of an 11 year old boy caught driving a BMW "(http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/england/hampshire/4246420.stm)!

[Biker]

what on earth would make parents want to buy any sort of gun for their Kids? I have never understood that. My 15 year old has asked for an air rifle and a bb gun but the thought of having them in the house just does not appeal to me at all. I jsut say he cant have one and thats the end of that

The words of a responsible parent.



Marion,

I totally agree.

I was horrified some years ago to see the National Rifle Association of America use the horror of the Dunblane shootings as an argument to arm the Teachers!

[Naefearjustbeer]

Marion,

I totally agree.

I was horrified some years ago to see the National Rifle Association of America use the horror of the Dunblane shootings as an argument to arm the Teachers!

Have you seen the film Bowling for Columbine? It goes to show the american attitude to guns causes major problems, Canada has a high percentage of gun owners but does not have the same gun crime problems. The problem is not the guns it is the attitude of the holder.
I have been shooting in one form or other from a young age and as soon as I was old enough I had my own air gun. I was a member of the army cadets where we got to fire all sorts of weapons from air rifles to fully automatic machine guns. The same rules that we were taught at the ranges mirrored the safety that my dad taught me years earlier. I never felt the need to take pot shots at people or pets. The people that do this are the ones that are given a gun as a present and allowed to "play" unsupervised. I can remember getting shot by an air pistol in a classroom in thurso highschool over 16 years ago. The owner of the gun was a teenage boy who had everything bought for him without question a "spoilt brat" . I had a air gun at the time but i would never of dreamt about taking it into school let alone shoot someone with it. This guy thought it was funny...

[brandy]

just wanted to say as an american my view on guns..
i have two boys
and i do not allow either of them to play with toy guns.
i do not belive in children having guns and i do not belive in people having guns in the home.. where children are or may be
i was raised around all sorts of guns and weapons..
from an early age i was taught we could not touch them
be they gun ammo knife or bow they were completly off limits what ever the reason
i am from the country where there is a lot of hunting.. therefor the arsenal!
but on the other hand i also understand that children will naturally want what they can not have.
it was a concious decision on our part but we decided not to let our children play with toy guns or any sort of dangerous weapon like toy.
i felt that they would not respect a real gun if they ever came across one, but that is my personal choice.
a lot of time when children play with "toy" guns or see the violence of such on tv.. they are quickly desensitsed (spelling crud i know) and do not even think about it when seeing a real gun...
will def educate the kids on weapons at a later date when they are old enough to understand.. but at the moment my 2 year olds plastic golf club is a dangerous weapon! *laughs* he has a mean swing!