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Kenn
16-Nov-07, 01:55
As an interested party, being a licencee, I was intrigued to see the item on "This Week" broadcast earlier this evening about alcohol abuse amongst the young.
It seems to be a general concensus that the revised licencing laws have been a complete disaster and this from politicians of differing parties backed up by the medical profession and the general public.
Diane Abbott made the point that there are now three licensed retailers next door to each other in a street where she lives which would not have been allowed under the old system where a new licencee had to prove the need for an extra licence and generally there had to be a distance of a minimum of half a mile between two retailers. ( I am not sure how the old system worked in Scotland so perhaps some one can comment on that.)
The biggest problems that have been identified in this area are proxy purchasing by older siblings along with fake identity cards,also the ready availability of cut price alcoholic beverages by the supermarkets.
There also seems to be a culture element amongst the young that some how it is "Kool," to drink until you drop.How this can be addressed I do not know but it certainly needs to be as the danger they place themselves in can be life threatening.
It also seems that the laws are not being enforced to a great degree as there are too few local government officers to do the necessary and the police are stretched to the limit.
May be raising the legal age for the purchase might be a partial answer and the abolition of sales at less than cost price another.
Your considered thoughts on the matter would be much appreciated.

Andrew C
16-Nov-07, 03:28
As an interested party, being a licencee, I was intrigued to see the item on "This Week" broadcast earlier this evening about alcohol abuse amongst the young.
It seems to be a general concensus that the revised licencing laws have been a complete disaster and this from politicians of differing parties backed up by the medical profession and the general public.
Diane Abbott made the point that there are now three licensed retailers next door to each other in a street where she lives which would not have been allowed under the old system where a new licencee had to prove the need for an extra licence and generally there had to be a distance of a minimum of half a mile between two retailers. ( I am not sure how the old system worked in Scotland so perhaps some one can comment on that.)
The biggest problems that have been identified in this area are proxy purchasing by older siblings along with fake identity cards,also the ready availability of cut price alcoholic beverages by the supermarkets.
There also seems to be a culture element amongst the young that some how it is "Kool," to drink until you drop.How this can be addressed I do not know but it certainly needs to be as the danger they place themselves in can be life threatening.
It also seems that the laws are not being enforced to a great degree as there are too few local government officers to do the necessary and the police are stretched to the limit.
May be raising the legal age for the purchase might be a partial answer and the abolition of sales at less than cost price another.
Your considered thoughts on the matter would be much appreciated.

1. Educate young people about the affects of alcohol abuse in graphic detail, promoting the sensible use of alcohol
2. Reduce the availability of alcohol...leave it to pubs only.
3. Raise the price of alcohol by taxation to cover the cost of putting right the wrong it causes and putting it out of the 'pocket money' range.
4. Be honest about the fact that there are still some retailers who knowingly sell alcohol to under age youths and promote a positive culture of reporting it when we are aware of it

The reality of the situation is that if alcohol were invented today, it would have been branded as some class of drug and discouraged. It has become a social norm, not just amongst youth. Adults can be just as irresponsible. Most domestic crime, violent crime and disturbances of the peace etc have alcohol at their root. I witnessed this in my home life as a kid.

All these things are why we, as The Salvation Army, still chose to be teetotal...not for any strong biblical reason, but as a counter-cultural stance against the problems that irresponsible use of alcohol produces.

As a Salvationist, you might expect me to say 'just ban it altogether', but I do recognise that people can drink sensibly. We do however, have a responsibility as a society for those who cannot drink responsibly and need to address it collectively. Year after year tax payers money is used in drink-driving campaigns, for example. Like drink driving, binge drinking and under-age drinking must be targeted and made taboo.

More needs to be done at every level to challenge the status quo. A 'Drink in Moderation' campaign needs to be more public, more visual and recognised as necessary if we are to see any change. The question remains, however, whether people will be motivated to support tougher legislation which would mean they'd have to pay a couple of pounds extra or walk a bit further to buy their weekend bottle of win.

Just my opinion. :)

cullbucket
16-Nov-07, 05:41
Like drink driving, binge drinking and under-age drinking must be targeted and made taboo.
A 'Drink in Moderation' campaign needs to be more public, more visual and recognised as necessary if we are to see any change.

You could say the same thing about religion - it is responsible for many more deaths through the centuries than drink.... "Religion in Moderation" - maybe we could start the campaign in Palestine.....

I speak as an ex under-age drinker and occasional binge drinker....

henry20
16-Nov-07, 09:23
2. Reduce the availability of alcohol...leave it to pubs only.
3. Raise the price of alcohol by taxation to cover the cost of putting right the wrong it causes and putting it out of the 'pocket money' range.


Restricting alcohol to pubs only is not a solution to the problem! It is also unfair to those who enjoy a glass of wine with dinner. Not everyone that drinks goes overboard. :roll:

Its like saying, young people who pass their driving test drive like lunatics, so nobody should drive until they are in their 30's! Not all people drive like idiots once they pass their tests :roll:

starry
16-Nov-07, 10:18
I am not sure raising the cost of alcohol will make much difference, many of the young people I work with have no problem with money and seem to have an endless supply of ready cash.

I am also doubtful about how education could work, teenagers seem to be programmed to ignore health warning and are convinced it will never happen to them.

Part of my work is assessing how effective advertising and health promotions have been and I can tell you that nothing the government has produced has been effective with the groups I work with.

I think the way to go is to raise the legal purchasing/drinking age (I would also raise the driving age ;))

The main responsibilty to stop underage drinking must surely be down to parents, the government can do what they like but unless they educate parents it won't work.

grandma
16-Nov-07, 12:42
I am not sure raising the cost of alcohol will make much difference, many of the young people I work with have no problem with money and seem to have an endless supply of ready cash.

I am also doubtful about how education could work, teenagers seem to be programmed to ignore health warning and are convinced it will never happen to them.

Part of my work is assessing how effective advertising and health promotions have been and I can tell you that nothing the government has produced has been effective with the groups I work with.

I think the way to go is to raise the legal purchasing/drinking age (I would also raise the driving age ;))

The main responsibilty to stop underage drinking must surely be down to parents, the government can do what they like but unless they educate parents it won't work.

I agree with Starry that a lot of parents don't take responsibility for their childrens' underage drinking and have a "drink all you can while you're still standing" attitude that passes on to the next generation. How can you educate poeple who don't want to be any different? I also agree that raising the legal purchasing age of alcohol might help, although it hasn't made much difference with smoking so far.
And Cullbucket - why take a pop at religion just because Andrew's in the Salvation Army? If anyone else had made his comment, would you have still mentioned religion?

cullbucket
16-Nov-07, 16:14
And Cullbucket - why take a pop at religion just because Andrew's in the Salvation Army? If anyone else had made his comment, would you have still mentioned religion?

If they wore their heart on their sleeve like him, then probably would have.....

emszxr
16-Nov-07, 16:48
i think parents need to educate their kids as to the dangers of alcohol.
i know some parents of teenage girls who let them do what they want and go where they want all weekend, in full know that their children are going to be drinking and the parents just dont seem to care. the parents seem to think its right for their kids to drink. i have had discussions with the parents and they just think its a part of growing up and that my kids will be doing it too. i am not against teenagers having odd glass of wine at home but what these parents do , letting them out every weekend to get totally drunk and fall about the streets is nothing less than a disgrace.
so i think underage drinking lies a great deal with the parents.

Jeemag_USA
16-Nov-07, 17:23
2. Reduce the availability of alcohol...leave it to pubs only.


This doesn't make any sense, for those who want to have a nice quiet drink at home they have to go into a noisy pub to buy it, on top of that seeing as how bars already charge much too much for take out now that they have a monopoly the will rise even higher. less people will be buying alcohol then so to one of your other points, there would be less money to clean up the mess. Ands this would increase the amounts of under age folk trying to get into bars? Also it would put many hundreds of people out of a job and the domestic sales of our wonderful whisky would go down the tubes. The best laid plans are the ones that consider every reaction and knock on effect?

Kenn
16-Nov-07, 23:46
Some interesting ideas, for which I thank you.
I quite agree that alcohol is too readily available and that may be we need to reverse some of the stupid new laws.
With regard to parental involvement, again is is quite obvious that there are minority of parents that seem not to care and are quite happy to let their offspring run amoke.
I am not sure how much education can do on the matter, there has been sex education in schools for many years and we still have the highest level on teenage pregnancies in the western world.

Andrew C
17-Nov-07, 20:41
If they wore their heart on their sleeve like him, then probably would have.....

The sleeve is the best place for the heart to be worn...gives others access and the benefit of it..I recommend it.


This doesn't make any sense, for those who want to have a nice quiet drink at home they have to go into a noisy pub to buy it, on top of that seeing as how bars already charge much too much for take out now that they have a monopoly the will rise even higher. less people will be buying alcohol then so to one of your other points, there would be less money to clean up the mess. Ands this would increase the amounts of under age folk trying to get into bars? Also it would put many hundreds of people out of a job and the domestic sales of our wonderful whisky would go down the tubes. The best laid plans are the ones that consider every reaction and knock on effect?


Restricting alcohol to pubs only is not a solution to the problem! It is also unfair to those who enjoy a glass of wine with dinner. Not everyone that drinks goes overboard. :roll:

Its like saying, young people who pass their driving test drive like lunatics, so nobody should drive until they are in their 30's! Not all people drive like idiots once they pass their tests :roll:

Was just suggesting that the number of retail outlets for alcohol be reduced to pubs, not that you had to sit in their and drink it.

To turn my argument about less alcohol being bought back up the right way, if there is less alcohol being bought, there won't be such a big problem so you won't need the money.

With regards to jobs, no difference there. Local shops which sell alcohol tend to sell lots of other things too.

There are already people trying to get into bars, but if you take a community like Wick, and many like it, many people on the doors of bars will know the age of a young person.

Henry, I did say that I know there are those who drink responsibly, but as someone who spends his life in an occupation that often involves picking up the pieces for people who can't drink responsibly, we must consider it as a huge issue. Drinking is a large issue in Scotland.

I suppose the point I'm making is that a large problem needs a radical answer and a couple of posters and adverts won't do it. There needs to be tougher action. Sadly, what is needed is for those who do drink responsibly to be willing to sacrifice some inconvenience to help ensure drink isn't getting into the wrong hands.

changilass
17-Nov-07, 20:56
With regards to jobs, no difference there. Local shops which sell alcohol tend to sell lots of other things too.

Off licences sell predominantly alcohol, if the Sally Army are willing to buy out the shops then fair enough, but you can't dictate to folk.

Andrew C
17-Nov-07, 21:11
Off licences sell predominantly alcohol, if the Sally Army are willing to buy out the shops then fair enough, but you can't dictate to folk.

Not dictating. Someone asked for some ideas and I offered some.

Its worth remembering that its only really in recent days that we've seen lots of these local shops selling alcohol. When you consider that in a place like Wick today that every corner shop and supermarket sell alcohol you realise that it is a bit of excess. When I think back to my home village, you could generally only get alcohol in the Victoria Wine off license...not the Co-op, the Spar, the paper shop, the garage, the corner shop etc etc

I'm not saying it shouldn't be available, just saying it is too readily available. Going back to the original theme of the thread, the licensing laws have become too lax and we need to see a reduction of places where alcohol is available. Like any substance, if it is controlled tighter then you automatically reduce harm by some degree. You'll probably never eradicate it.

The same argument could be applied to sensible bar-keeping. What happened to a day where a landlord would suggest that his customer had maybe one too many?

Jeid
17-Nov-07, 21:39
No offence Andrew but you're talking total rubbish. Sell only alcohol in the pub? I know people who drink but never ever step foot in the place and don't want to.

As a bar tender, I find your "What happened to a day where a landlord would suggest that his customer had maybe one too many?" statement a bit on the insulting side. I know when to tell a customer, or a mate for that matter that they've had one to many, so don't sit and preach that bar keepers aren't sensible. On the very rare occasion I've had to do this, and I've been a barman for 5 years, everyone has been happy that I've been looking out for them.

Alcohol is readily available for the masses to drink as it's in demand. Businesses are looking here to make money and if you can go to one shop and pick up everything except the bottle of wine you want to have with your dinner, you're not going to go there are you?

I've seen the effects that alcohol can have on a family first hand. It's not nice, but I don't see why everyone who can control their drinking has to suffer because a few idiots can't. It's always the minority that spoil it for the majority.

If there's less alcohol being bought, you won't need the money? For what? Sand shoes? If there's less alcohol being bought, there's less tax the government are making so yeah, we'll need the money to pay for taxes by other means. It's a vicious circle.

What do you suggest we do about licensing laws exactly? You seem to be able to sit and criticise that they're to lax, but you don't seem to be suggesting what the government should be doing to change them? Also, how the hell are the government supposed to implement it? Are they going to put a limit on how many pints a person can have? How do they police that? Bar staff have a crap job as it is, shop keepers aren't in a much better position... so unless you're gonna come out and police it, I'd be interested to see what other suggestions you have.

Alcohol is to readily available? Yeah... but it keeps people like myself and Lizz in jobs.

</rant>

JAWS
17-Nov-07, 22:49
Cigarettes and Tobacco are both readily available in far more places than alcohol yet the use of both, according to the same bodies who are screaming loudly about alcohol, are dropping rapidly with more people than ever giving up using them.

I can't speak for Caithness but certainly in both the places I have spent most of my life prior to coming here the number of Public Houses or Bars as you would probably call them, has dropped dramatically. If you could walk more than a hundred yards without passing one you were being very careful to make sure you were avoiding them. If you asked anybody for directions you wre invariably directed by a whole list of pub names to turn left or right at.

The problem with alcohol and those youngsters who are rowdy is more to do with the fact that, for many decades. yobbish behaviour has been excused, explained away and even totally ignored as if it didn't exist. All that had happened now is that such behaviour has become so commonplace it is very hard to avoid it.

The attitude of "lets punish everybody" rather than dealing with those individuals causing the problems is a typically lazy response. If the number of licensed premises and the length of licensing hours and the low cost of alcohol were the problem then many Countries on the Continent would have had this problem with their populations for the last Century or more. The simple truth is that they certainly don't and never have, until the British arrive that is.
That alone says the problem lay, not with alcohol, but with the society we have created for ourselves. Blaming alcohol is just another attempt to find a scape-goat. We are refusing to face up to the truth that we have failed to teach children, initially, what is acceptable behaviour and what is not. Then, when they grow up and behave in unacceptable ways, we throw up our arms and look for an excuse.

And regarding earlier closing times being the solution, does anybody recall what the "ten o'clock swill" was and how it got it's name?

Cedric Farthsbottom III
17-Nov-07, 23:41
Was 14,walked into an off license,bought a bottle of Merrydown Cider,nae questions asked.Me and ma mates had a guid night.When we turned 18,alcohol became boring cos ye were legal to do it.The rebellion of childhood,long may it last.Because if yer honest,the stuff they get up to today,is the exact same as we used to.

Royster1911
18-Nov-07, 11:09
Get rid of the problem like Sweden got rid of under age sex. Lower the age restriction. Hey, the problem has gone! Tounge in cheek, but it did work.
:~(

rockchick
18-Nov-07, 11:18
If children learn about drinking from their parents, such as having wine with food or relaxing in the evening, it removes the "coolness" from drinking and getting drunk, and educates kids about how to use alcohol responsibly.

European countries do this, and they have a much better balanced view towards drinking than the Brits do. And cost doesn't come into it - wine is much cheaper over there than it is here.

Welcomefamily
18-Nov-07, 12:00
If children learn about drinking from their parents, such as having wine with food or relaxing in the evening, it removes the "coolness" from drinking and getting drunk, and educates kids about how to use alcohol responsibly.

European countries do this, and they have a much better balanced view towards drinking than the Brits do. And cost doesn't come into it - wine is much cheaper over there than it is here.

Its a very good idea, as a former hotel owner you don't often see adults with children coming in for food and the adults buying 14 year olds alcohol such as half of cider or lager with their food or a glass of wine.
This does get rid of the concept of alcohol being special. I think a lot more landlords and licensing authorities should promote this.

As to what Andrew said about only selling alcohol in Pub, I think its an excellent idea except for a number of licensed off licenses for wines and spirits.

Finally a bar man can only see the behaviour of the here and now, the alcohol he served five minutes ago may take up to 30mins to have an effect, very few bar man in a busy bar can make allowances for how some one will behaved and how much they have drunk in the last thirty minutes, if they could we would not be having this discussion.

Andrew C
19-Nov-07, 01:52
No offence Andrew but you're talking total rubbish. Sell only alcohol in the pub? I know people who drink but never ever step foot in the place and don't want to.

As a bar tender, I find your "What happened to a day where a landlord would suggest that his customer had maybe one too many?" statement a bit on the insulting side. I know when to tell a customer, or a mate for that matter that they've had one to many, so don't sit and preach that bar keepers aren't sensible. On the very rare occasion I've had to do this, and I've been a barman for 5 years, everyone has been happy that I've been looking out for them.

Alcohol is readily available for the masses to drink as it's in demand. Businesses are looking here to make money and if you can go to one shop and pick up everything except the bottle of wine you want to have with your dinner, you're not going to go there are you?

I've seen the effects that alcohol can have on a family first hand. It's not nice, but I don't see why everyone who can control their drinking has to suffer because a few idiots can't. It's always the minority that spoil it for the majority.

If there's less alcohol being bought, you won't need the money? For what? Sand shoes? If there's less alcohol being bought, there's less tax the government are making so yeah, we'll need the money to pay for taxes by other means. It's a vicious circle.

What do you suggest we do about licensing laws exactly? You seem to be able to sit and criticise that they're to lax, but you don't seem to be suggesting what the government should be doing to change them? Also, how the hell are the government supposed to implement it? Are they going to put a limit on how many pints a person can have? How do they police that? Bar staff have a crap job as it is, shop keepers aren't in a much better position... so unless you're gonna come out and police it, I'd be interested to see what other suggestions you have.

Alcohol is to readily available? Yeah... but it keeps people like myself and Lizz in jobs.

</rant>

Maybe I can clarify my rubbish and challenge a few of your points. I'll respond paragraph by paragraph. Lets face it, my ideas were only suggestions and not likely to happen, but I'm advocating that something radical needs to be done. Otherwise, we keep sweeping this nation's alcohol abuse under the carpet. Anyway...

1. The idea of only selling alcohol in a pub, both to drink in and take away, would reduce the numbers of licensed premises. As I said originally, if alcohol was introduced today it would have been more heavily legislated than what it is.

2. As a bar tender I'm glad you are sensible. What I cannot reconcile (not in this community) is the number of people who leave pubs dangerously drunk. So, perhaps its accurate to say that good landlords and bartenders are doing their part. Suggesting that only pubs sell alcohol

3. Alcohol is only in demand, I don't doubt that. How would reducing the venues and the process of buying it create a problem? There are around 15 public houses/hotels in Wick...thats still a lot of venues. Are you saying that if only the public houses sold alcohol then people wouldn't go to the grocers to buy bread? Thats like saying if only bakers sold bread that people would stop going to grocers to buy vegetables. If everyone is buying their alcohol from a limited number of locations, then people who sell other things aren't going to have a challenge.

4. We may not agree on this, but being part of a community involves responsibility for others in that community. We want to be looking out for people. I for one am willing to sacrifice a bit of my convenience for others.

Secondly, it isn't a minority of people who can't handle their alcohol responsibly. 2 in 5 men and 1 in 4 women exceed their recomended daily limits. Alcohol related issues costs Scotland £1.1 billion every year. There are close to 2800 alcohol related deaths in Scotland every year. I could go on, but won't.

5. If there was less alcohol being bought and consumed then you wouldn't have to fork out quite as much as £1.1 billion for alcohol related issues. The increased tax on alcohol would then cover the significantly reduce cost of sweeping up after it.

6. I suggest we reduce the something like 17000 licenses instead of rapidly increasing them, thus reducing the retail outlets for alcohol. I am suggesting higher taxation to remove alcohol from the budget of youth. Maybe raise the age. Its a similar strategy to that of tobacco. Pubs seem to be quite good at keeping legislation on cigrarettes, I don't doubt they'll fail if alcohol restrictions were to come in force.

7. I suppose you could say that because alcohol is readily available that it keeps me in a job, but to be honest I'd rather be unemployed than have people get into a mess with alcohol.

As I said in an earlier post, its not 'cool' to be anti-alcohol. But we have a problem in this nation with alcohol. We have a problem in this community with alcohol related problems. Something has to be done. What would you suggest Jeid?

JAWS
19-Nov-07, 03:11
I don't quite understand the argument about the number of outlets. Does that mean that the more Bakeries there are that people would over indulge in eating bread? That the more grocery outlets there are the more vegetables people would eat?

Just round the corner from where I worked at one time was a Rolls Royce Agents. Strangely enough, despite it's proximity and the easy access, I never once had the urge to dash in and order a quick Rolls Royce. By rights I should have been dashing in every other day to buy yet another just because the place was there. There was also a Religious Book Shop and strangely enough - ah well, it took great will power to overcome such temptation!

The problem is neither the cost of alcohol or the number of outlets, the problem is that alcohol in Britain has suffered from that longstanding inbuilt belief that if people enjoy something then it must be evil and therefore they must either be punished for indulging their evil ways or even better, if possible, prevented from doing so altogether.

This leads to the ridiculous concept of the “not in front of the children” syndrome. The only thing that attitude succeeds in doing is creating not only an air of mystery, which is always going to grab children’s attention, but also means that the moment they are able to solve their curiosity they invariably end up learning the hard way what the dangers are.
You wouldn’t hide fire from a child until it was in it’s teens and then allow it to find out about it by sending the child off with a crowd of mates, a gallon of petrol and a box of matches to see what happens.

Andrew C
19-Nov-07, 12:09
I don't quite understand the argument about the number of outlets. Does that mean that the more Bakeries there are that people would over indulge in eating bread? That the more grocery outlets there are the more vegetables people would eat?



Someone was making the point that grocers etc would be out of pocket if the number of licensed premises were reduced to either simply off licenses or pubs. I was just trying to say that people aren't going to stop going to those shops because they don't sell alcohol, because they sell other things. Sorry if I was unclear, but I suppose it was a comment that had to be read in context of the quote I was responding to.

Andrew C

cuddlepop
19-Nov-07, 15:55
Why cant we go back to the restricted licening hours of 11 30 till 2 30 and then from 5 till 10pm with the provision for special occasions.
Somehow the 24/7 hour availability has back fired on the government and has not lead to more respectable drinking.
Nicola Sturgeon announced today an extra £15 million to be spent on alcoholism thats an increase of funding of 150%.
At at time when budgets are beging cut for essential services surely restricting the drinking time is one way to treat the problem.:confused

Jeid
19-Nov-07, 21:06
Maybe I can clarify my rubbish and challenge a few of your points. I'll respond paragraph by paragraph. Lets face it, my ideas were only suggestions and not likely to happen, but I'm advocating that something radical needs to be done. Otherwise, we keep sweeping this nation's alcohol abuse under the carpet. Anyway...

1. The idea of only selling alcohol in a pub, both to drink in and take away, would reduce the numbers of licensed premises. As I said originally, if alcohol was introduced today it would have been more heavily legislated than what it is.

Why do we need to reduce the number of licensed premises? To stop people drinking... we may as well shut supermarkets as well, people are getting fatter and we don't want it turning into an epidemic. People have gambling problems, are you suggesting that we get rid of some of the bookies and places to gamble online as well? If people can't control their drinking/eating/gambling etc, then they have a problem and it's up to them to fix, obviously with help. I don't see why others who can control their drinking etc have to suffer for a minority.

Agreed, it would be heavily legislated, but lets get real here, it's not just been introduced. It's been on the go for a long time now and as long as people have money, people will drink.


2. As a bar tender I'm glad you are sensible. What I cannot reconcile (not in this community) is the number of people who leave pubs dangerously drunk. So, perhaps its accurate to say that good landlords and bartenders are doing their part. Suggesting that only pubs sell alcohol

How often do you go near a pub? In my experience as a bar man, people who leave a pub dangerously drunk, arrive dangerously drunk.


3. Alcohol is only in demand, I don't doubt that. How would reducing the venues and the process of buying it create a problem? There are around 15 public houses/hotels in Wick...thats still a lot of venues. Are you saying that if only the public houses sold alcohol then people wouldn't go to the grocers to buy bread? Thats like saying if only bakers sold bread that people would stop going to grocers to buy vegetables. If everyone is buying their alcohol from a limited number of locations, then people who sell other things aren't going to have a challenge.

Your point is invalid, you can't buy veg from a bakers. The point I was making works, as you can indeed get all your shopping at most outlets that sell groceries. Also, see my comments about people over eating above.


4. We may not agree on this, but being part of a community involves responsibility for others in that community. We want to be looking out for people. I for one am willing to sacrifice a bit of my convenience for others.

Secondly, it isn't a minority of people who can't handle their alcohol responsibly. 2 in 5 men and 1 in 4 women exceed their recomended daily limits. Alcohol related issues costs Scotland £1.1 billion every year. There are close to 2800 alcohol related deaths in Scotland every year. I could go on, but won't.

I agree. I'll gladly pick someone up if they fall down.

Right, I'm not following you. 2 in 5 is a minority of people, as is 1 in 4. So, yeah, the MINORITY of people do have a drinking problem, you contradicted yourself there. That indeed is a lot of money, however, with the amount of tax that's added on, most of that will pay for itself, but I get your point that it costs a lot of money.

I go over my calorie intake most days, as do many people... obesity is a bigger worry than drinking if you ask me.

Smoking and heart disease causes a lot of deaths in Scotland, how come you're not campaigning about that as well?


5. If there was less alcohol being bought and consumed then you wouldn't have to fork out quite as much as £1.1 billion for alcohol related issues. The increased tax on alcohol would then cover the significantly reduce cost of sweeping up after it.

If there was less alcohol being bought, then I'm pretty sure other taxes would rise... income tax for one.. as if we need that?


6. I suggest we reduce the something like 17000 licenses instead of rapidly increasing them, thus reducing the retail outlets for alcohol. I am suggesting higher taxation to remove alcohol from the budget of youth. Maybe raise the age. Its a similar strategy to that of tobacco. Pubs seem to be quite good at keeping legislation on cigrarettes, I don't doubt they'll fail if alcohol restrictions were to come in force.

Right, that's fair enough. So with Scottish workers screaming out for jobs, where exactly are the people in these 17,000 licenses, I assume there will be job cuts, going to work? It's a catch 22 situation. Less licensed premises, less people in work, less people drinking but.. higher unemployment, more people on benefits.

Yeah, we do a good job of keeping the smoking legislation, but it's not exactly an easy task. Can you imagine what it's like to have to deal with drunk people trying to buy drink in a pub?


7. I suppose you could say that because alcohol is readily available that it keeps me in a job, but to be honest I'd rather be unemployed than have people get into a mess with alcohol.

That's very nice of you. Not everyone can or will say that though. At the end of the day, most people are looking out for themselves and the people they love around them. My job involves selling people alcohol, it pays the bills and keeps me employed. Your job is at the total opposite end of the spectrum.


As I said in an earlier post, its not 'cool' to be anti-alcohol. But we have a problem in this nation with alcohol. We have a problem in this community with alcohol related problems. Something has to be done. What would you suggest Jeid?

Perhaps you're right, but who cares what is or isn't cool. Skinny jeans are cool, I think they're uncool. I don't drink very often and out of the customers I serve on a daily basis, I reckon I perhaps see one alcoholic... in fact, I wouldn't even say they were alcoholics, I'd say that they were lonely. Perhaps we need to look more closely at other things on the scale of problems.

What do I suggest? Nothing. I've not got a problem with people drinking, in fact, it doesn't put me up nor down. I just think you're looking down a one way street and that's that.