View Full Version : Vicky Hamilton
It was so sad to read in todays press that the body found in a garden in Margate is not who they expected it to be, the body is that of missing Scottish lass Vicky Hamilton. She dissappeared in February 1991 in Bathgate. Peter Tobin truly is an evil man. God bless Vickys' family. :~(
Shabbychic
15-Nov-07, 18:20
Very sad news. Just makes you wonder how many other bodies Tobin has stashed away. Thank goodness he is now behind bars.
highlander
15-Nov-07, 18:25
Also very sad that an innocent man spent 16years in prison for a crime he did not commit, at least now vicky can be laid to rest.
Any murder is a tragedy to those involved and the communities. It is terrible to wonder how long he was getting away with this. At least her parents will finally get to lay their daughter to rest but they will have all their pain made worse throughout the trial as the evidence of what happened to her comes out. I cannot even begin to imagine how they feel.
Any murder is a tragedy to those involved and the communities. It is terrible to wonder how long he was getting away with this. At least her parents will finally get to lay their daughter to rest
Sadly, her mother died some years ago, aged only 41 or so.....her heart gave out! :(
karia
oh no that is absolutely awful, I never knew that. It must have been hell for her not knowing what happened to her daughter.
lets not forget he also murdered the polish student angelika kluk aswell. a very disturbed man.
How is that that these people can escape detection for so long? Does nobody that knows them ever notice anything odd? Realistically the guy even looks odd, I wouldn't fancy walking home with him behind me (but thats how I tend to judge)..... not good maybe but it works for me
George Brims
16-Nov-07, 00:01
How is that that these people can escape detection for so long? Does nobody that knows them ever notice anything odd? Realistically the guy even looks odd, I wouldn't fancy walking home with him behind me (but thats how I tend to judge)..... not good maybe but it works for me
Have you ever seen pictures of Ted Bundy, the American serial killer? He was good looking and charming, so his victims trusted him and let down their guard. He was so smooth that he was being considered as a political candidate for a while.
yeah I suppose you can't tell by looks alone. That's why some are able to continue so long as nobody would suspect them.
In my previous job we were issued with a "Who's Who" photo gallery of the Security Team. I have to say I've felt less threatened by some of the official Photo-IdentiKit images released by several Police forces over the years.....
Unfortunately, you can't always judge a book by it's cover. Similarly we will never be able to legislate around "un-natural" behaviour" in any form.
That, alone, makes me sad :(
Looking at the newspapers today again, it seems the police in Margate are confident that they will find more remains in that despicable morons back garden, the machinery they use seems to indicate as much. I hope that the body of Dinah McNicol is there as well as this is the girl they were looking for in the first place. I think her father expected her to be there as well.:~(
Sadly that is another body found.
Hi Unicorn, I just heard that on the radio just now myself. Is'nt it dreadful, some other poor family going to get heartbroken. Only hope this is'nt going to be a Fred and Rose west again. God forbid.
You know what I think the saddest thing is, he has lived his life and taken everything from these people. He may go to prison but as I say his life is lived and he will be well fed and taken care of in his old age by the authorities, not gonna be a poor pensioner trying to keep himself warm with a candle cos he can't afford electric or heating.
I agree with you there, we have thousands of old age pensioners that never broke a law in their life and this winter(if they survived the last one) will once more sit in cold homes that they cannot afford to heat and eat as little as possible because they don't have a huge pension. Oh. i know they get 200 pounds heating allowance but for all the winter months, how long will it last them? This gets right up my nose, because as you say, his retirement is all arranged for him.A lot of folks would say, 'but he has lost his freedom now' well, i think if you asked a pensioner they might swap places with him gladly, for the winter months at least.:~(
He has had years of freedom that he has denied at least 3 innocent young girls.
I completely agree with you. Whats his lost freedom now compared to the young lifes he so brutaly cut short.
Can you imagine how the current occupants of the house must feel?
BBC report (http://forum.caithness.org/go.php?url=http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/7099507.stm)
Moi x
In last nights 12midnight news on Sky, they said the family who stayed in the house don't want to come back to it and it was suggested that if more bodies are found, it is very likely the house will be demolished anyway, just like Cromwell Street.
I think it should be demolished, how could you go back to your home knowing it's history.
I don't think I could walk back in through the door, never mind go back and live there. It would be bad enough living next door. :(
Wiki says (http://forum.caithness.org/go.php?url=http://forum.caithness.org/go.php?url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fred_West)...
In October 1996 the Wests' house at 25 Cromwell Street was demolished and the site made into a pathway. Every brick was crushed and every timber was burnt to discourage souvenir hunters.I think they should do the same here. I think some sort of memorial might be appropriate also.
Moi x
Would agree with that wholeheartedly Moi x. :~(
connieb19
17-Nov-07, 18:53
The house will probably be demolished like the West's house and the house Ian Huntley was in too.
I didn't know Huntlley's house had been demolished, thanks connieb19.
Again, the rubble was crushed into dust but no memorial was planned, at least according to the Observer (http://forum.caithness.org/go.php?url=http://forum.caithness.org/go.php?url=http://forum.caithness.org/go.php?url=http://observer.guardian.co.uk/uk_news/story/0,,1185348,00.html) when it was demolished.
We also shouldn't lose sight of the fact that no-one has yet been tried and found guilty for the murders of these two girls but I don't suppose any of us would suggest that it was anyone other than Peter Tobin.
connieb19
17-Nov-07, 19:11
I see he's being linked to the Bible John murders too. :~(
Yes, I remember hearing that when he was found guilty of murdering Angelika Kluk.
Let's hope he was Bible John. That would mean that Bible John is already locked up. I hope he's found guilty of a lot more.
As far as Vicky Hamilton is concerned, i think they have enough evidence for a conviction because i remember them saying the police searched the house he used to rent in Bathgate earlier this year and found Vicky Hamiltons DNA inside.
Sadly, it won't make any difference how many times this evil beast is found guilty. He will be kept in comfort, at our expense, for the rest of his life. If he had been convicted of one murder and sentenced to death, other lives could have been spared. It seems that most humans prefer to wring their hands in worry about hanging the wrong man, or about dragging ourselves down to the level of murderers. The current punishment can never fit the heinous crimes committed. Can we not do more to protect our children?
No sadly in this day and age it seems that the human rights of criminals are far more important than the human rights of victims and innocents.
Sadly, it won't make any difference how many times this evil beast is found guilty. He will be kept in comfort, at our expense, for the rest of his life. If he had been convicted of one murder and sentenced to death, other lives could have been spared. It seems that most humans prefer to wring their hands in worry about hanging the wrong man, or about dragging ourselves down to the level of murderers. The current punishment can never fit the heinous crimes committed. Can we not do more to protect our children?
With the greatest respect Scorrie what seperates us from murderers is hopefully a sense of justice and perspective that allows us to properly interpret evidence and calculate risk without resorting to 'hanging and 'flogging' as a first response.
And every human being should be utterly concerned with seeing the 'right' man punished for the crime..for if not, then we become the murderers and destroyers of life....it's not an option!
Should we do more to protect our children...and I would add old folks and decent citizens and all our fellow travellers to this...we ALL need protection and respect.
I would not care to belong to a society that did not worry over 'hanging' the wrong man and we should do more than wring our hands against such lynch mobs.
Karia
Simple solution. Life should mean exactly that and only in very exceptional circumstances should there be any question of early release.
What makes the difference between the murderer and the rest of Society is that Society is willing to give a murderer the benefit of hearing the evidence and the defence which might refute the accusation before coming to a decision and then to allow any decision of guilt to be examined for any defects in the procedure. That is something, by the very nature of what a murderer does, that is never extended to the victim.
The murderer makes a decision to be the prosecution, defence, judge, jury with a pre-decided guilty verdict having the sole intent of acting as the executioner.
There is a whole difference between that behaviour and the due process laid down by the legal system which intentionally sets out to give the murderer every benefit of the doubt.
Sadly, it won't make any difference how many times this evil beast is found guilty. He will be kept in comfort, at our expense, for the rest of his life. If he had been convicted of one murder and sentenced to death, other lives could have been spared. It seems that most humans prefer to wring their hands in worry about hanging the wrong man, or about dragging ourselves down to the level of murderers. The current punishment can never fit the heinous crimes committed. Can we not do more to protect our children?You are missing my point. I realise I didn't spell it out in gory detail but if Peter Tobin murdered a large number of women this implies that there are fewer murderers out there for the police to track down and for us to worry about. This is a good thing in my opinion.
Anyway, it is not clear that the death penalty deters murderers. Most analysis of the deterrent effect is inconclusive at best. It's not cheap either unless you deny those on Death Row the right to a comprehensive appeal process.
Would you have hanged Stefan Kiszko for Lesley Mollseed's murder?
You are missing my point. I realise I didn't spell it out in gory detail but if Peter Tobin murdered a large number of women this implies that there are fewer murderers out there for the police to track down and for us to worry about. This is a good thing in my opinion.
Anyway, it is not clear that the death penalty deters murderers. Most analysis of the deterrent effect is inconclusive at best. It's not cheap either unless you deny those on Death Row the right to a comprehensive appeal process.
Would you have hanged Stefan Kiszko for Lesley Mollseed's murder?
Sadly a great many folk would have, without question.
People want closure and to put away such unpleasantness that often is more important than justice, as quickly as it can be swept under the carpet.
karia
What you say is undoubtedly true but there do exist proponents of the death penalty who genuinely believe that it's the appropriate punishment and that it has a deterrent effect. I am uneasy with the philosophy and ethics of the former but that's my problem and it shouldn't impinge on objective discussion. However, everything I've read about the latter indicates that the issue is far from being cut and dried.
So how do we all feel about the death sentence for those who are proven guilty beyond any doubt whatsoever, and is it possible to have such proof?
I think in the cases of Peter Tobin And Fred and Rosemary West, yes there is no doubt. Did somebody sneak into their gardens and houses to bury murder victims, I THINK NOT. They are 100% guilty and deserve hanging.[evil]
You are missing my point. I realise I didn't spell it out in gory detail but if Peter Tobin murdered a large number of women this implies that there are fewer murderers out there for the police to track down and for us to worry about. This is a good thing in my opinion.
Anyway, it is not clear that the death penalty deters murderers. Most analysis of the deterrent effect is inconclusive at best. It's not cheap either unless you deny those on Death Row the right to a comprehensive appeal process.
Would you have hanged Stefan Kiszko for Lesley Mollseed's murder?
Whether the death penalty deters potential murderers or not, I have no idea?
My sole point is that a hanged murderer is denied the opportunity to kill again. There have been mistakes made before but we are surely developing methods that will help avoid such errors. In fact, Lesley's true killer was convicted by such techniques. Obviously, Stefan Kiszko would have been hanged in error and that would have been tragic. We would need to know how many people have been killed by re-offenders and compare that to how many people we would have hanged in error to know where the balance lies.
Keeping prisoners in jail long-term is also expensive, I would not know how this compares to the cost of administering the death penalty. If, as you say, there are fewer murderers than we think out there then perhaps it is not as big a problem as it seems. I just feel that we look after the most evil people better than we look after our law-abiding citizens.
With the greatest respect Scorrie what seperates us from murderers is hopefully a sense of justice and perspective that allows us to properly interpret evidence and calculate risk without resorting to 'hanging and 'flogging' as a first response.
And every human being should be utterly concerned with seeing the 'right' man punished for the crime..for if not, then we become the murderers and destroyers of life....it's not an option!
Should we do more to protect our children...and I would add old folks and decent citizens and all our fellow travellers to this...we ALL need protection and respect.
I would not care to belong to a society that did not worry over 'hanging' the wrong man and we should do more than wring our hands against such lynch mobs.
Karia
I am not advocating a Lynch Mob society. I simply feel that we offer little for evil people to fear. There seems to be a section of society who could be classed as inhuman, such is the depravity of their actions. I think we have come a long way since the infamous Derek Bentley case. I would hope we could use science to help eliminate errors. We would need to proceed with the utmost care and on 100% certainty basis, there would need to be NO shred of doubt.
Whether I would want to live in such a society is not something I could say with any certainty. I simply also wonder if it is right that I live in a society where Peter Tobin, Ian Huntly etc are sitting warm and fed whilst shattered families live what is left of their lives in anguish.
Scorrie, i say they should be hung. Huntly,Tobin and the worst one of the lot Rosemary West. They don't deserve to live after the horrible things they have done. I have no doubt that should hanging be reintroduced for such cases as these, there will be people willing enough to carry out their executions.[evil]
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