Energy - the answer !

[Dog-eared]

If we use the Pentland Firth's endless supply of energy in its tides ie 4 very strong tide cycles a day then that would supply a very dependable source of energy, and the only visible indication of their presence would possibly be their marker buoys.
The lows in their power supply ie at slack water could be made up by having the sort of system used at Ben Cruachan Hydro Station,- which is inside a mountain - in that excess power produced by power stations put into the the grid at times of low consumer demand is used to pump water back up into its water reservoir as a reservoir of energy.
Therefore the tides energy at the biggest flow would be backing itself up for use during slack water.
And since its freely available tide energy, it's not consuming any fuels .

What do you think ?

[Riffman]

I'm sure I read somewhere that the last machines they tested were ripped up by the currents and dissapeared.....

But it would certainly work, just got to find someone willing to invest.

[SandTiger]

Something is in the pipeline... http://news.scotsman.com/index.cfm?id=271042007 maybe.

[Dog-eared]

The PELAMUS in Orkney is working well, and I think thatwell developed undersea turbines would work too.
The tides are more predictable / manageable than windpower.

[quirbal]

Well I strongly believe that tidal power is the way to go.

[Rheghead]

Well I strongly believe that tidal power is the way to go.

I agree. It is the way to go to provide a part of the energy provision that fossil fuels already provide us. However, the problem is that the lead time in tidal energy and efforts to gain confidence in tidal energy will be the stumbling block in the immediate future. As an old red leaning person, I can see a need to take energy production out of the private sector but we are living in another age, and I have to live with it. Wind energy will provide enough to meet our 2020 targets but the availability of viable sites beyond that are seriously wanting. Therefore schemes like the pentland firthand the severn, morecambe bay schemes will take us beyond our 2020 levels of renewable energy generation levels.

[horseman]

Can't seem to equate the profit an loss side of this!
Fossil fuels will soon be exhausted, so we must be looking at re-newable energy-Wind an waves shouild figure high in that theme-if so then what programme is there in this. Not referring to the certain $millions being spent,but an org understandable view- Pentland Firth-guaranteed minimum energy every day,is it harnessable?
Ain't got a clue my'self,not my field,just wondering!

[Aaldtimer]

The very fact that Cruachan has a reservoir is the point of the exercise, the Pentland Firth is not a containable reservoir, so it's not a comparable situation.

[Dadie]

there was a test mashine off dounreay about 10 years ago... it sank!

[fred]

Can't seem to equate the profit an loss side of this!
Fossil fuels will soon be exhausted, so we must be looking at re-newable energy-Wind an waves shouild figure high in that theme-if so then what programme is there in this. Not referring to the certain $millions being spent,but an org understandable view- Pentland Firth-guaranteed minimum energy every day,is it harnessable?
Ain't got a clue my'self,not my field,just wondering!

No fossil fuels won't be exhausted for a long time, it just won't be so ridiculously cheap once production peaks. The economic system the world functions on is like a pyramid selling scam, it relies on expansion, when the cost of oil rises the world goes into permanent recession and our economies will collapse.

One area which has been seriously neglected for investment is algae farming. Some species of algae are over 50% oil, more than any plant. They grow fast, their production would not take up land presently used for agriculture thus pushing up food prices, they thrive on human waste like the nitrogen run off from arable land and when you have extracted the oil you are left with grade a fertiliser. There are a few technical problems but I'm sure they could be overcome if it was made a priority and the funding was put into it. The lochs of Caithness could be growing genetically modified algae, all that surface area converting sunlight to carbon neutral biodiesel.

[Dog-eared]

Aaldtimer- I wasn't suggesting the Pentland Firth can be used as a reservoir.

I was suggesting that excess power produced during periods of low consumer demand could be used to pump freshwater up into a reservoir at a hydro station,thereby creating a buffer of energy to offset periods of high consumer demand and low power output from the Firth.

Ben Cruachan is an example of excess power produced in power stations hundreds of miles away being fed to Cruachan through the grid and used to pump water up to the reservoir to store this energy.


Dadie - the wave power unit moored off Dounreay was a PR job for atomic power against wavepower. It was designed to sink.
The local engineers who went aboard it said that the thickness of the steel plating used in its construction was much too thin for its purpose.

Also - the lids on the air shafts containing the turbines were still bolted shut so the air pressure could not escape when the waves were pushing compressed air up them, as designed.
It blew the joints apart on the thin steel body and it sank, as intended.

[Rheghead]

Dadie - the wave power unit moored off Dounreay was a PR job for atomic power against wavepower. It was designed to sink.
The local engineers who went aboard it said that the thickness of the steel plating used in its construction was much too thin for its purpose.

Also - the lids on the air shafts containing the turbines were still bolted shut so the air pressure could not escape when the waves were pushing compressed air up them, as designed.
It blew the joints apart on the thin steel body and it sank, as intended.

That is not the way that I'm reading it.

http://www.sciencenews.org/articles/20010414/bob12.asp

[Dog-eared]

Reghead - thats right , it sank before producing any power.

[Rheghead]

It seems the SNP has a renewable energy revolution in mind.
From the Scotsman

Salmond plans Norwegian energy link-up
ALEX Salmond, the First Minister, is to meet Jens Stoltenberg, the Norwegian prime minister, over plans to create a subsea "supergrid" to take green energy from Scotland to Europe.

Proposals have been previously mooted to connect renewable schemes in the Highlands and Islands to an underwater grid in the North Sea to export power to the Continent.

Yesterday, Mr Salmond told the Highlands and Islands Convention that Scotland's natural resources held considerable potential as sources of power.

He added: "We have six to seven times the power Scotland needs, but we have to figure out how we take that power to market. It would have to go subsea in a supergrid to take the power to energy-poor areas."

Mr Salmond plans to meet Mr Stoltenberg and European officials early next year. The First Minister said he also hopes to make progress on reducing National Grid connection charges.



How very forward thinking of Mr Salmond!

[Yoda the flump]

Nah, it will just go south via the national grid.

Hey thats good, England can then import renewable energy from the north and nuclear energy from the south.

[captain chaos]

There is a Dutch company with an office at Forss Business Park doing feasibility studies not into wave power but under sea turbines using the pentland firth tidal flows.

[Dog-eared]

Undersea turbines are the way to go. The tides give a dependable, regular supply of energy. Better than unreliable sources such as wind or wave power.

[Dog-eared]

I've tried to post a link but no joy.
If you use the IMAGE search option on the google toolbar and put in pentland firth turbine, you'll get lots of pics and info.
The "teleos" site is especially good.

[Rheghead]

www.teleos.co.uk/TurbineImageFrame.htm

[George Brims]

I would think an added virtue of these tidal turbines would be you could site them so as to discourage illegal inshore fishing (trawler type not anglers).