Suicide

[danc1ngwitch]

Suicide, is it a selfish act? A waste of life?
The immense pain for the ones left behind.
Human life is sacred, but does anyone stop
to wonder what goes on in the mind of the poor soul
that has tryed or has done it.
This subject is probably not the best one but a very real one.

[superted]

I think it's normally a cry for help or the person is depressed. It's a horrible thing to think about and Ive had a family member commit suicide before and you just can't begin to imagine whats going on in ther head.

[cuddlepop]

You have picked better.

Sometimes its very easy to judge others but I feel by saying its a completely selfish act doesn't go deep eneogh.

I speak unfortunatly with experience on this matter .

My mother went to pieces after my father died.Being widowed at 40 was bad eneogh but she had two toddlers to bring up.
I couldn't begin to explain what I felt when I found her,I was only 15 and had no one i could trust so I patched her up and put her to bed.

Now in my forty's I can understand why she done it but its left us all feeling we weren't eneogh for her.

Sometimes you can love someone too much and all sense of rational thinking goes out the window.

You can say its the cowards way out,you can say its selfish.
Me I still see it as a desperate act by someone incredibley unhappy.:~(

[Welcomefamily]

It can be very hard for the children and to have to deal with it is even harder, some people who commit suicide do so with total intent, not as a cry for help. Other do it as a cry for help that goes wrong.

[Camel Spider]

It can be very hard for the children and to have to deal with it is even harder, some people who commit suicide do so with total intent, not as a cry for help. Other do it as a cry for help that goes wrong.

I debated whether to post anything on this thread but as my experience had a positive outcome I might as well. I attempted suicide during the lowest point of my life and was EXTREMELY lucky to survive. I was depressed after some major upheavals in my personal life and just couldnt cope, being a bloke means I didnt talk about these thing with my service colleagues. Typical closed off male right ??, I put my happy face on and drudged on. I was one person outside my house and a totally different one in it, and I lived alone which made it worse. One night I locked the doors and took a cupboard full of pills washed down with poison, I dont remember much about the thought process that night that led me to do what I did, I just remember seeing it as the only option that made sense, and after that I just acted on that impulse. I do remember being totally calm though. They way I acted still confuses me to this day and is one of the reasons I studied Psychology (the other one being I wanted to understand Women for Pulling purposes)

My life was saved by my neighbour, it was summertime and he was out in his back garden and could hear me being sick while I was lying on the kitchen floor. He broke in, took care of me and got me to hospital. If he hadnt I would most probably have choked on my vomit, it was a close run thing even in Hospital.

I allowed my problems to mount up and did the male thing, put on a brave face and ignored it. By taking the help on offer I talked a lot and felt better, with help I was able to take my problems on. If only I had swallowed my pride instead of chemicals that night I would have saved myself, my friends and my family a lot of heartache. I am so glad I was not succesful that night.

Because I wouldnt have my two Daughters and my Son. They have a fantastic Godfather as well, their dads best friend. He saved their dads life.

[bluelady]

Depression often brings irrational thinking, peeps either dont think about the consequences or push them aside. deep despair brings about a sense of hopelessness and often peeps can see no other way out but to kill themselves believing the peeps they leave behind will be better off without them, or they are alone and so lonely and no longer see the point of living like that. There several reasons why peeps commit suicide, when it's a cry for help, they often make sure someone knows about it, when it's meant, they do it in seclusion and tell no one, it's often down to luck that they are found. I dont believe it's selfish, just very sad that someone gets that low, that they feel thats the only way out. Thats why I detest bullies and oppressors and admire the work of people like the Samaritons that freely give up their time to try and make a difference to someones life.

[lady penelope]

Sometimes you don't see another way out.
Problems aren't always easy to deal with and if the deepest darkest days visit and don't seem to go away suicide can appear to be a good way out.
Been there, done that, came out the other side a very happy bunny:)
A problem shared with a good listener can help. I now have very good ears.:lol:

[Anne x]

OMG I cannot believe it a suicide is not courage its irrational behaviour and thoughts
just stop!!! think!!! of the family left behind and just how shattered there lives are cant sleep! cant eat !cant function ! a family and generation can be shattered by it as many have

[porshiepoo]

I too had to think hard before answering this thread.
I was approx 8 years old the first time I tried to commit suicide. From a very young age I found life hard to bear, not through bullying or anything, just through plain old sadness. I felt a sadness deep inside that I just couldn't explain at such a young age or know what to do with. Attempting to kill myself was never a cry for help, I never did it when there was a chance of someone finding me and I never told anyone. The good thing was that at the age of 8 my imagination as far as killing myself goes was a tad immature, I tried the plastic bag tied over my head while I lay on my hands so that I wouldn't rip it off. After each failure - about 3 times over a period of time - the sadness was just increased, but I could never explain where the sadness came from. I just hated the life I saw around me, I found it too hard and so every little thing just made things worse. Dying was never about getting back at someone though, even at that age it was about release.
I went through quite a period of time where suicide seemed the only way to stop the sadness, sadness I can see now that I was creating.
I even remember cycling to work and willing myself to cycle under the next lorry that went by, I tried to jump out of a bedroom window at a very young age but my brother stopped me,it beggars belief now.

I look back at those times and have mixed feelings. On the one hand I made life harder for my self emotionally and created and nurtured this sadness and on the other hand I know I had to go through those feelings and those experiences have made me the person I am today. Life could have been so much easier for me I just didn't know that at the time.

Some say suicide is the cowards way out, others say they aren't brave enough to commit suicide.
Me, I say it's neither one nor the other. For some it's a desperate cry for help that has tragic consequences, for others it's a release from a life they neither like, want or know how to deal with and for yet others it's about making someone else pay, but no matter what the reason it's an act of complete and utter desperation from someone who for whatever reason just doesn't have the coping mechanism that we all assume we can dig deep and find.
It's not the act of a coward, it's the act of a desperate soul.

[horseman]

The person I was lucky enough to get to in time-cut down-recussitate and save, allowed that the act was carried out in an absolutely blind 'red rage'.
So porshie an Camel thank goodness you have both come thru' your dark sads, an are really good people now in spite of it.
Dancingwitch what an awful post to make-not bad just awful, normal sweet ordered life is not like that:(;)

[anneoctober]

As one soul who has been there, I did n't have courage and did n't even think it cowardly. That's the whole point, I TRUELY believed that my family would all have better lives without me in it. I would n't be posting here today, if it were n't for my daughter. I'd managed to get my hubby to go over to Orkney for a bowling event, one son offshore, the other in Edinburgh and my daughter works weekends. No one to come in the nick of time and had my pills amassed, by the time I would be found it be too late.
Of course it did n't work out that way. My daughter for some reason decided to 'phone me that saturday instead of texting me, from work. I answered it simply to appear normal - however she gave me valuable breathing space and I realised after our conversation that I could n't let my hubby find me like that. He would never get over the shock. On a visit to the "mental case"'s ( my tag for myself) doctor, I had my lassie wi me for support ( I could n't meet people or converse /panic attacks etc) this was about two /three months later did SHE find out how bad things were for me. I simply owe her my life.
It's not an awful or bad post dancingwitch, it's just a situation that is part of life for many more people than we care to think. We cannot and should not "judge" , it's something that cannot be explained until "you've walked in their shoes"

[Whitewater]

This is a sad thread. I can't contemplate the utter desperation in the mind of a person to cause them do this, and see it as the only way out.

You are all talking from experience, I can only hope that at some time in the future I don't come up against the same wall. I think I would be too big a coward to take my own life. I have had many problems in my life, times of great sadness and grief, as well as many seemingly unsurmountable problems among other things. I've perhaps been lucky, I've always had a strong family and friends, they have always helped, and been there whenever comfort or advice was required. I don't think I could ever contemplate taking my own life, but maybe I've just been lucky so far. Who knows???

[karia]

It is a sad thread..but a brave and optimistic one also!

Great that folks feel they can share their darkest moments and celebrate their finest with us here.

I celebrate them all!


kariaxx

[Pink Lippy]

They've been there and cried,
In trouble and strife,
So much that they tried,
To take their own life.

But they all came back out,
Not one as a ghost,
To come here and shout,
I'm alive! I can post!

[Lolabelle]

I have at different times wanted to kill myself, for different reasons. Revenge, cowardice, anger and self pity. But the one time I really just wanted to die was when I was sick earlier in the year. I was in so much pain, that I just wanted it to end and if death would end the pain, that was fine with me. So I don't know what you call it, it's different for everyone and different reasons at different times.
Dave's uncle committed suicide after watching the exorcist at the movies. Who knows what was behind that.

[Thumper]

Suicide is a very hard thing to go through,both for the people left behind and also for the person that felt driven to do it!IMO it is not a selfish act,it is one of desperation! My ex hated anyone who tried this and had actually witnessed 2 attempts by different people to do it,he sat there and did nothing [disgust] he reckoned if they wanted to do it he wasn't risking his life to save them :eek: I could never understand his attitude towards this,until I found out that he really is just a selfish person who only cares about himself!Thats a different matter altogether tho and i wont bore you with it.People can very quickly become so down that everything spirals out of their control and they do honestly believe that it is their only option.Yes, you do get some that do it for attention,but that in itself shows that they NEED help.IMO its not a cowardly act,it takes a very brave person to try and take their own life,no matter how desperate they have become x

[moureen]

Thank you to all you people who are TALKING about suicide at last just maybe the stigma is being broken.I lost my beatiful,clever,gentle, son Phillip to suicide in April 2004 it is a long very long story which I wo'nt go into here but one thing I will say is my son was NOT selfish my son wanted his pain to end and in that split second to him suicide was the only way.I will add that Phillip was not one of the many people who complete suicide and do'nt ask for help he tried to get help from the services for years but no one lisened to him.There was an inquiry at New Craigs into the lack of care my Phillip got and one docter told me "Phillip slipped through the net"!!Services have to start lisening to people and more money must be invested into mental health care.

[Ricco]

A very interesting and provocative thread. I am so pleased that it is being given the serious and responsible treatment that it deserves. This is where the underlaying basis of so many caring and understanding orgers is being glimpsed... caring and understanding based upon a variety of personal experiences. I am pleased and proud to be reading all of the above - it makes me realise that we are not all alone in, at one time, having spent a few minutes or longer on these thoughts.

I must have been around 24 when I passed through this phase myself. It is so good to know that others care enough to support and help you through the tough times to see that the sheer wall of desperation is only so big because you have been feeling so small; that it is, in fact, not a situation that cannot be overcome.

It is at these times when it is so important to remember that there ARE people who care and to have the courage to turn to those people and ask for support... and a big hug. Time eventually puts a smile back onto the face of life.:D

... and life and this planet are such a beautiful place that how could anyone really want to leave it?

[danc1ngwitch]

I read this and realize how lots of people have been tapped by it.
I read it again and feel the saddness.
I feel the braveness also.
Lot's of folks will read this some what sad thread, and recognise the comfort people find in one another.
I am truely sad for those who have lost loved ones. In people we find strengh.

[BRIE]

I used to think suicide was a very selfish & cowardly act until I saw it from both sides.
my ex partner used to suffer from depression & at one point in their life became very ill with it to the point of considering suicide.You question yourself as to if you some how contributed to them getting to this point, why they would want to leave you & their children behind without a second thought!
I remember not wanting to leave him alone for fear of what they might do if you werent there, & the worst thing of all had to be the fear of finding them if they had committed suicide, always making sure you went into a room before your children just incase!
I thought he was selfish for putting me through it!
Then I became ill myself with post natal depression, I cant describe the feeling of desperation,loneliness & fear that comes with depression although I never felt that I wanted to end my life I can understand why people do.
Its an illness that changes you into someone else who doesnt have rational thinking or reasoning.
so no suicide isnt selfish, The person isnt thinking of anything other than making that horrible feeling go away & sometimes it can feel like the only way it will ever stop is by stopping exsisting!

[sassylass]

OMG I cannot believe it a suicide is not courage its irrational behaviour and thoughts
just stop!!! think!!! of the family left behind and just how shattered there lives are cant sleep! cant eat !cant function ! a family and generation can be shattered by it as many have

I've come to believe that suicide can be an act of courage, when life is hopeless. Who would want to waste away on a sickbed, straining the family nerves, draining the bank account?

A sudden goodbye versus prolonged pain...death is hard to take, no matter what the circumstances.


To clarify "hopeless", I am speaking about someone who had a terminal illness.

[orkneylass]

I train people in suicide first aid so I can tell you....

Around 900 people kill themselves in Scotland each year

Suicide is a permanent solution to what is usually a temporary problem and those who are helped to carry on rarely regret living.

Suicidal thoughts occur to around 5% of the population in any given year which is why so many people need to know what to do

the most important way to prevent suicide is to talk openly about it (which the org is helping brilliantly with). If you ever wonder if someone might be considering it, just ASK - you will NOT be putting ideas into their head and you will be saying "it is OK to talk to me about this if it is what you are feeling"

Be prepared to listen to how the person feels and why they want to live - don't jump in with suggestions or counter-arguments

Ask the person if they have a set plan and timetable. You may then be able to persuade them to delay the plan by handing over the means etc. If they have a definite plan, the risk is high. You should ask them how long they can stay safe for and who else they can talk to. Try to persuade them to let you contact their doctor or another source of help.

Although you should try to get the person "on side" with any help, as a last resort you dial 999 and take matters out of their hands.

After all, the fact that the person is talking to you about it, and the fact that they have not done it already, tell you that part of them is clinging on to life and hoping that another solution to their problems can be found.

[Julia]

Sensible advice Orkneylass!

I'd like to add my tuppence worth, suicidal thoughts or attempts are sometimes perpetuated by alcohol or drugs making it very difficult to help at all without getting the professionals involved.

Someone very close to me committed suicide last year, he desperately needed help and wanted to go to back to New Craigs but they turned him away. In a way the system failed him but I knew deep down that he probably would kill himself one day, it just came sooner.

[orkneylass]

You are absolutely right about drink and drugs Julia - part of keeping someone safe until you can get them to help would be them agreeing not to use substances to cope. In Orkney there is a big link between alcohol problems and suicide. Alcohol is a depressant in itself but it also wrecks lives when its use is out of control.

[anneoctober]

I train people in suicide first aid so I can tell you....

Around 900 people kill themselves in Scotland each year

Suicide is a permanent solution to what is usually a temporary problem and those who are helped to carry on rarely regret living.

Suicidal thoughts occur to around 5% of the population in any given year which is why so many people need to know what to do

the most important way to prevent suicide is to talk openly about it (which the org is helping brilliantly with). If you ever wonder if someone might be considering it, just ASK - you will NOT be putting ideas into their head and you will be saying "it is OK to talk to me about this if it is what you are feeling"

Be prepared to listen to how the person feels and why they want to live - don't jump in with suggestions or counter-arguments

Ask the person if they have a set plan and timetable. You may then be able to persuade them to delay the plan by handing over the means etc. If they have a definite plan, the risk is high. You should ask them how long they can stay safe for and who else they can talk to. Try to persuade them to let you contact their doctor or another source of help.

Although you should try to get the person "on side" with any help, as a last resort you dial 999 and take matters out of their hands.

After all, the fact that the person is talking to you about it, and the fact that they have not done it already, tell you that part of them is clinging on to life and hoping that another solution to their problems can be found.
You've hit on a good point there orkneylass, someone who is desperately depressed is already on the road to end their life so TALKING calmly about it or rather LISTENING can only help, it will not encourage them to do " something silly" . My daughter in the first instance gave me time to collect my thoughts and over the last eighteen months has listened and has never over reacted or blamed me in anyway, and I realise how lucky I am to have had her there for me. Family & friends but also the medical profession are crucial to help postitive thoughts and outcome . Anne xx

[pat]

Have been on a suidcide intervention course - very informative, useful and thought provoking, very worthwhile.
If everyone spent a little time if you notice someone down or having the worlds worries on their shoulders, talk to them instead of passing by.
You can lift someone just by that little bit of care and attention. Enough to show that someone does care and things are not as black as they appear, there is light at the end of the tunnel, things do get better, your few words may mean so much.
Please do not pass on the other side of the road, specially when you know someone has had a hiccough in life and may be finding it difficult.
We are all so busy with our own lives but please - think twice, be nice.

We never know when it may be us who feels at the end of our tether and need a gentle helping hand.

[JAWS]

More often than not, drugs and alcohol abuse are a symptom of the problem rather than the cause. Placing the "blame" solely on such abuse is just a good way of providing an easy, ready made answer to avoid having to give consideration to a problem which is far more difficult to solve.
And, no, I am not saying that such matters are the only reason for people to have a drink or drug problem, things would be so much easier if it were.

On a separate note, one of the reasons some people commit suicide is that they come to a definite conclusion that their family and friends would be far better off if they were not there causing them "problems" of whatever kind.
I am not saying that they are right but they conclude that those around them would have far less problems and much better life if they were not there.
They feel they are a massive burden to themselves and must therefore be a massive burden to those around them. They conclude that, by committing suicide, they will lift that burden for all concerned.
They can feel, rightly or wrongly, that any immediate pain and distress caused to those around them will be far outweighed by the long term benefits to them.

[Anne x]

sometimes when a person is beyond drug years ie not a teenager not Ill (well no physical illness )according to dr report no sign of mental illness carried on there work and duties til the end whats the answer then
I am saying no more on this as it hurts beyond belief
and yes they had a plan all worked out

[sassylass]

I'm so sorry Anne x, I've sent you a pm.

[sweetpea]

Orkneylass I've been on the training you mentioned and it really got to me, but I've also been on the other side as well. One of the things that I keep thinking about is how to get this sort of thing more into the community itself because really anyone could come accross someone that's feeling suicidal and knowing how simple it is to start the conversation, it's a shame that more people don't get trained.
For those who have no faith in New Craigs I can understand why but I have a friend who works in a place down south who had a patient on the closest watch you can get which is practically touching and the guy had his rights to go out and he jumped in front of a lorry when he was with her waiting to cross the street.
Also I know an old man who wants to kill himself, he is about 70ish, has no family, wife died, been all over the world and done everything he wanted to do in life, just doesn't want to be a burden on society, you know end up in a home??? Not sure about this, mixed feelings but I can def see where he is coming from.
If you feel someone is thinking about suicide then TALKING about it really is the way to go.

[appleskin]

I read this and realize how lots of people have been tapped by it.
I read it again and feel the saddness.
I feel the braveness also.
Lot's of folks will read this some what sad thread, and recognise the comfort people find in one another.
I am truely sad for those who have lost loved ones. In people we find strengh. have you ever stood near the edge of a high cliff,and felt that an unseenforce was pulling towards going over the edge,even though all your senses and responsibilities are telling you no ,thats the closest i can explain it