View Full Version : Remembrance Sunday
On the 11th November it is Rememberance Sunday and all over the country Ex-Servicemen and Servicemen will be remembering the Fallen of the Great Wars and all wars that Servicemen have given their lives to serving their country.
This is known as Poppy Day, please give generously and be proud to wear your Poppy.
http://www.poppy.org/
Tighsonas4
26-Oct-07, 20:05
yea golach
it was on the 24th of this month 1939 that word was received
that the royal oak had been sunk in scapa flow. i think the first
local loss of life at sea was on the ralpandia not sure
regards tony
northener
26-Oct-07, 20:10
Absolutely.
Definately, Golach. I always do. Whatever people think about armed services they should always remember that these brave men and women paid with their lives for our freedom, for a just cause.
You are absolutely right, Golach.
Thanks for reminding me golach, it soon comes around. It is a shame that some of us who are the first in the queue to enjoy our freedom (at home and in the middle east)are the very ones most likely to ignore Remembrance day.:mad:
How could any of us forget.
helenwyler
26-Oct-07, 21:46
Always do, golach.
Young and not so young soldiers and civilians, whose lives were ended so horrifically...and it doesn't matter whether we agree with the justifications for the various wars or not, they prematurely lost what we, fortunately, can still treasure...life!
I'm sure this has been on the forum before, but I thought I'd put it on.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nWQMThFpnHU
Thoughts and prayers with families who have lost servicemen and women. x
peter macdonald
26-Oct-07, 23:38
Tighsonas perhaps the name of the ship you were thinking about was HMS Rawalpindi which was captained by the the broadcaster Ludovic Kennedys father
http://www.internet-promotions.co.uk/archives/caithness/rawalpindi.htm
HMS Royal Oak was sunk in Scapa on 14/10/1939
Thanks very much for this thread Golach
PM
yea golach
it was on the 24th of this month 1939 that word was received
that the royal oak had been sunk in scapa flow. i think the first
local loss of life at sea was on the ralpandia not sure
regards tony
You have your dates wrong there Tony, HMS Royal Oak was sunk on the 14th October 1939, it was in the papers next day. My uncle was one of the Royal Marines lost, he was 19 years old. Most of the Marines got burnt alive by the cordite flash which ripped through the deck they were sleeping on. Every year in Orkney, a service is kindly arranged by the Millar family- Charlie Millar for more than 40 years and this year since his sad death last Christmas, his daughter Agnes McBarron. The RBL Kirkwall assist Agnes and a lunch and small informal get together is held there. As a family member of a lost one, I like all the others that attend every year or when they can, am extremly grateful to the Millar family and the RBL for keeping the memory of the Royal Oak alive and for the hospitality that the Millar family have and continue to give not only on that day, but any day of the year you go over there. God bless them. for anyone interested
Survivors reunited to remember HMS Royal Oak - Orkney Today (http://www.orkneytoday.co.uk/news_item.asp?newsItem=2619)
i understand there were men from Caithness also lost on this ship.
Another Caithness Man to have lost his life on the HMS Royal Oak was my grandmother's cousin Instructor Lieutenant Hugh Stewart Age 24 Royal Navy his parents were Neil Stewart & Georgina Leith. Hugh was a very clever man and it just seems such a waste of a good life. I was very interested in you information above Bluelady. Thanks
God Bless all their souls
will wear it with Pride Golach
matelot79
27-Oct-07, 01:59
You have your dates wrong there Tony, HMS Royal Oak was sunk on the 14th October 1939, it was in the papers next day. My uncle was one of the Royal Marines lost, he was 19 years old. Most of the Marines got burnt alive by the cordite flash which ripped through the deck they were sleeping on. Every year in Orkney, a service is kindly arranged by the Millar family- Charlie Millar for more than 40 years and this year since his sad death last Christmas, his daughter Agnes McBarron. The RBL Kirkwall assist Agnes and a lunch and small informal get together is held there. As a family member of a lost one, I like all the others that attend every year or when they can, am extremly grateful to the Millar family and the RBL for keeping the memory of the Royal Oak alive and for the hospitality that the Millar family have and continue to give not only on that day, but any day of the year you go over there. God bless them. for anyone interested
Survivors reunited to remember HMS Royal Oak - Orkney Today (http://forum.caithness.org/go.php?url=http://forum.caithness.org/go.php?url=http://forum.caithness.org/go.php?url=http://forum.caithness.org/go.php?url=http://www.orkneytoday.co.uk/news_item.asp?newsItem=2619)
i understand there were men from Caithness also lost on this ship.
My nic says it all. Joined the Royal Navy in 1979 when I left school, had the privilage of being on a minesweeper one time that our divers renewed the Ensign on the Royal oak. Don't know if they still do it.
Always have a little quiet time on rememberance sunday.
Was lucky enough to have served in the army a good few years ago and survived a tour . Some of my battalion didnt.Always remember before going on patrol in Ulster that before we went out we had to pass a plaque that named a guy from my regiment that was killed before his 18th birthday(the last british soldier to die before his 18th while in ulster).We used to always touch it "for luck" which I know sounds silly, but it certainly made you switch on to what you were doing.
God bless them all and never forget the sacrifice that so many of our generations gave for our freedom.
northener
27-Oct-07, 07:51
My nic says it all. Joined the Royal Navy in 1979 when I left school, had the privilage of being on a minesweeper one time that our divers renewed the Ensign on the Royal oak. Don't know if they still do it.
Yes Matelot, they still do.
Tighsonas4
27-Oct-07, 11:06
thanks for the correction peter.
thats the ship ok but cant name the wicker lost on here
as for the royal oak it may well be so. as word was sent to us
concerning the other loss already mentioned yes hugh was
quite clever have all his diplomas still. maybe memory dims with age?
at the going down of the sun etc
thoughts are with all who remember at this time
regards tony
peter macdonald
27-Oct-07, 11:35
Tony no problem If you read the link I put on the post it will give you all the details about the Rawalpindi and her Caithness connections
All best
PM
Does anyone know where you can get the poppies with the pins on them? I have only seen the ones with thte green plastic stalks so far. With the pin ones I can wear it on any clothing.
What annoys me is that the small villages that have an epitaph no longer get police assistance to close the road and create diversions!3years ago I was at the service in Castletown and I couldn't belive that not only did the minister have to shout to be heard over the traffic,he kept asking us to watch out for traffic and to stand on the opposite side of the road![disgust] I couldn't believe it and asked everybody there to stand in the middle of the road and make the cars go round the backstreets,people were only too glad to do this but the minister wasn't happy at all.IMO this was a disgraceful lack of respect and at one point a car edged up so close to us I could touch it and then sat there revving it's engine!Its was easy enough to go down one of the back streets and then go onwards on their journey but no,they sat there like idiots getting madder at the people who had the decency to turn up and pay their respects!I can't believe that people could have so little respect for this service x
northener
27-Oct-07, 11:55
I don't want to tale this thread away from the topic, but regarding the prat in the car.
Well, thats the price of democracy. People put themselves on the line so cretins like that can do what they want with impunity.
Had so many people not been prepared to make the final sacrifice, then this prat may have been dragged out of his car by a couple of gentlemen in black uniforms sporting 'SS' runes.....
Tighsonas4
27-Oct-07, 12:36
hi all
just a quickie. i suppose most of you will know that if you enter
the site [cwgc] you can bring up any relations with all details
in both wars just by search.
regards tony.
"The inquisitive mind of a child"
Why are they selling poppies, Mummy?
Selling poppies in town today.
The poppies, child, are flowers of love.
For the men who marched away.
But why have they chosen a poppy, Mummy?
Why not a beautiful rose?
Because my child, men fought and died
In the fields where the poppies grow.
But why are the poppies so red, Mummy?
Why are the poppies so red?
Red is the colour of blood, my child.
The blood that our soldiers shed.
The heart of the poppy is black, Mummy.
Why does it have to be black?
Black, my child, is the symbol of grief.
For the men who never came back.
But why, Mummy are you crying so?
Your tears are giving you pain.
My tears are my fears for you my child.
For the world is forgetting again.
Does anyone know where you can get the poppies with the pins on them? I have only seen the ones with thte green plastic stalks so far. With the pin ones I can wear it on any clothing.
Poppy legion are not allowed to make them with pins anymore so Ive heard, health and safety.
[quote=KCERINN;288938]"The inquisitive mind of a child"
Why are they selling poppies, Mummy?
Selling poppies in town today.
The poppies, child, are flowers of love.
For the men who marched away.
quote]
What a lovely poem, did you make it up? if not who is it by?
Poppy legion are not allowed to make them with pins anymore so Ive heard, health and safety.
I got poppys with pins, so they are still selling them
Does anyone know where you can get the poppies with the pins on them? I have only seen the ones with thte green plastic stalks so far. With the pin ones I can wear it on any clothing.
The pins I got were in the box with the green stalked poppies, so I have mine pinned on.
Mr me19 was referring to the ones with the stalk being the actual pin with the black head on top, like a hat pin.I have one from a few years ago, but a friend who gets regular orders from the Earl Haig fund direct, was told they had to stop making the actual pin ones. Although there are pins provided, it is up to the purchaser to take and use them.There are also sticky on ones now as well. Its safer to use a small safety pin done up under the clothes so only a tin line showing on the outside, then push the stalk through that.
Well I tell a lie or have been mis informed unless it's next year they are stopping making them, but in the British legion in Thurso today and they have a box full of the Hat pin style ones, so there you are Mr_me19 :D
Thank you! I'll try and get one but might be difficult with school....
yes you can get them with Pins I have mine .
The article I saw on the news a few weeks ago said they were going to be replaced by stick on poppies must be next year
If the prospect of dealing with a sharp pointy pin throws you into some sort of panic you could always buy one of these - then each year put money into the Poppy box ...
http://www.rblicatalogue.co.uk/catalogueindex2.cfm?i_id=214
I always have some quiet time on Remembrance Sunday and think of all the Men and Women that fought (and still do) to make me feel nice and safe and cosy in my part of the world. I feel terrible too when i think of all those who lost their lives in the process. God Bless them all for their sacrifices. They should never be forgotten.:~(
Camel Spider
29-Oct-07, 13:48
I believe it is important that as well as honouring the fallen we also remember the living who are now going to have to live with the scars and injuries of their experience's .. www.helpforheroes.org.uk (http://www.helpforheroes.org.uk) .. www.combatstress.org (http://www.combatstress.org) .. do sterling work and are also worth a few pence if you can spare it.
These were made by a serving soldier and are quite moving ..
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=jtl5kmWrFLg .. http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=2UoWTK5qKS0 .. http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=gfAg_QBEF_E .. http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=2gJnrXXumfw
peter macdonald
30-Oct-07, 11:50
The Faroese lost 4 trawlers during WW 2
Tór 1 ex st Keverne Mine in trawl Iceland in December 1940 No casualties.
Nćraberg ex Tervani Bombed by airplane in April 1941 west of Scotland crew rowed ashore at the Sule Skerry
Tór 2 ex Lord Lonsdale Torpedoed South of Iceland in September 1942 18 casualties
Nýggjaberg Torpedoed by German submarine en route from Iceland to Fleetwood full up with fish in March 1942 21 casualties.
The Faroes lost 39 ships during WW2 and around 240 men they made 2354 trips with fish to Britain and landed 151973 ton of fish and made roughly 8 Million Pounds.
Just shows the range of people from all nations who gave their lives
PM
Camel Spider
30-Oct-07, 12:10
True .. I get annoyed with people who complain about the amount of Poles now in Britian. They were outstanding fighters in WW2 and the way they were discarded at the wars end was a national disgrace.
But Remembrance is about more than the two World Wars, we now have a goverment that puts the actions in Iraq and Afghanistan at the top of its priorities but defence spending to do the job at the bottom. The fact we live in a country where veterans of all conflicts have to rely on charities to provide what they need, in fact what they are at the very least owed is nothing short of a national disgrace.
Remembrance should be more than wearing a poppy and a minutes silence every year.
Thanks for reminding me golach, it soon comes around. It is a shame that some of us who are the first in the queue to enjoy our freedom (at home and in the middle east)are the very ones most likely to ignore Remembrance day.:mad:
And it's a shame that there are so many who claim to remember the last two World Wars yet are so eager to start the next one.
Lest we forget...lest we repeat.
And it's a shame that there are so many who claim to remember the last two World Wars yet are so eager to start the next one.
Lest we forget...lest we repeat.
I know you are so eager to plug your pro-terrorist lies but this is a thread about remembrance, so don't quote me and try to goad a deviation from topic. I am sure that servicemen are going to attend Remembrance Sunday no matter where they are stationed.
Just shows the range of people from all nations who gave their lives
PM
Not just nations but religions also. Alongside 'Christian' troops fought Muslim soldiers, Sikhs, Hindus etc and in particular in the Far East they too suffered at the hands of the Japanese. Visiting the Kranji War Memorial in Singapore recently certainly highlighted that, with a common cause, religious differences can be put aside.
So to all the brave men and women who gave their tomorrows for us I will certainly remember you....
Camel Spider
30-Oct-07, 14:53
And it's a shame that there are so many who claim to remember the last two World Wars yet are so eager to start the next one.
Lest we forget...lest we repeat.
I can handle you describing my time in the Forces as "most people dont want to learn to kill people" , I can handle you implying that I am a Nazi symapthiser as you have done in the past.
What I cant abide is a Insurgent symapathiser who quotes from the Tehran times about "Iran's new powerful weapon", who openly dislikes the west and uses any opportunity to spout what is basically Islamist propaganda using the sacrfice of men and women who died to provide his freedom to make his pathetic little political points.
Especially when servicemen and women are fighting and dying in the Middle East as we speak.
If there was another war in which your freedom was threatened I know you would be behind our troops Fred.. as far behind them as you can possibly get, skulking out from behind your rock waiting till it was all clear so you could come out, search the internet and start firing off accusations against anyone who doesnt agree with your hilarious little political theories.
Your old friend Reality called Fred .. he wants you to get in touch.
Madpict, a little closer to home is the Naval cemetery on Orkney where Muslims, Jews and Christians are all laid to rest. It is easy to forget on how a massive scale those two WWs were fought. :(
Gentlemen Please do not turn this thread into a tit for tat name calling session, we have had enough of these.
This Thread was started as a reminder of Rememberance Sunday, and not as a who is or is not to blame thread.
Rememberance Sunday is a special UK & Canadian day of rememberance to the dead of both nations regardless the politics.
So please just wear your poppies with pride and remember them, who died for the service of their countries.
peter macdonald
30-Oct-07, 15:50
"Just shows the range of people from all nations who gave their lives " Just to clarify The range of people was meant to encompass all religions and nations .There are a lot of unknown soldiers and civilians who lost their lives in wars each one was somebodies son So please dont read anything else into my post
History for various reasons has forgotten (or would like to forget) many of the victims .... 250000 Ethiopians (WW2) 80000 Freemasons killed by Hitler(WW2) 10000 Irish serving in British and Commonwealth forces (WW2)20000 Spanish Anti Facists living in France deported and killed (WW2)
etc etc etc etc (This could be a very long list)
They were from all walks of life and all religions and should be remembered which ever side the were on
PM
ps Golach thanks for the last comment !!!
Rheghead,
Of course, they fell all over the world fighting the Axis - but while visiting Kranji it seemed to 'shout out' that once we all stood side by side and died as brothers in arms.
Peter,
I didn't intend to belittle your post - just to expand on it.
Having visited Belsen in the west and now Changi Prison in the far east the cruelty of the Axis was truly worldwide. You can read about these horrors in history books but seeing them in the 'flesh' brings it home even more. And it adds 'substance' to the stories of those who survived and why they feel the way they do.
At this time of year I wear a poppy (and even add one to my virtual ID) so my support of veterans is obvious...
I can handle you describing my time in the Forces as "most people dont want to learn to kill people" , I can handle you implying that I am a Nazi symapthiser as you have done in the past.
What I cant abide is a Insurgent symapathiser who quotes from the Tehran times about "Iran's new powerful weapon", who openly dislikes the west and uses any opportunity to spout what is basically Islamist propaganda using the sacrfice of men and women who died to provide his freedom to make his pathetic little political points.
Especially when servicemen and women are fighting and dying in the Middle East as we speak.
If there was another war in which your freedom was threatened I know you would be behind our troops Fred.. as far behind them as you can possibly get, skulking out from behind your rock waiting till it was all clear so you could come out, search the internet and start firing off accusations against anyone who doesnt agree with your hilarious little political theories.
Your old friend Reality called Fred .. he wants you to get in touch.
I made a valid point. Remembrance Day was started to remember the dead of the Great War, a war so terrible they thought it would end all wars so long as we did not forget about it.
It is a time not just to remember the fallen of the past but also to reflect on the young lives being lost in the Middle East today, to ask ourselves why? Where did we go wrong? It is also a time to think about the young men and women of the future and what we can do to spare them the horrors of war.
After WWI the League of Nations was formed and after WWII the United Nations both with the same intent, to decide a set of rules the world could live by, bring rule of law, civilisation to the world to replace the barbarism of warfare. If we really want to honour the fallen I think the least we can do is to live by those rules, put the rule of law above all else, then maybe they will not have died in vain.
Fred is right and it's a pity some people decided to jump in without thinking and try to turn this valid and welcome thread into an excuse to trade insults. The best tribute to the dead is to vow to do everything in our power to stop wars of any kind. War causes suffering to soldiers and civilians alike, as has been seen in the recent TV programme on Belsen.
Soldiers are not treated as well as they should be - they do not choose where, why or who they fight - but they deserve our gratitude and respect. We should remember the wounded living, both in mind and body, as well as the dead and be thankful to them and ashamed that we have learnt so little.
Remembrance Day was started to remember the dead of the Great War, a war so terrible they thought it would end all wars so long as we did not forget about it.
I agree. But you are making a political point in a remembrance thread that fails to address that there are many routes to peace than simply laying down of one's weapons. Let us not forget that it was appeasement (an act of peace) that laid the conditions for WW2. Shall we just remember the fallen for once and keep politics out?
peter macdonald
30-Oct-07, 16:53
MP no problem ...Ive never been to the far east but have been to Therisenstad(spelling?) and stood beside Tyn Cot and Budapests weeping willow and was affected by all of them but a walk among the war graves and memorials of the North of Scotland does the same thing Its somebody who was doing as he was told who is lying or remembered there .As an aside I heard an interview a while back with a guy called Michael(??) Coffey who was a medical orderly with the Irish Army in WW2 His job was to look after the human remains washed up on the West coast of Ireland and commented that often they didnt know where /who/what the bodies had come form but they always did their best and treated them most respectfully It was an amazing interview
PM
I agree. But you are making a political point in a remembrance thread that fails to address that there are many routes to peace than simply laying down of one's weapons. Let us not forget that it was appeasement (an act of peace) that laid the conditions for WW2. Shall we just remember the fallen for once and keep politics out?
Yes there are many ways to peace and none of them can be dropped from a B52 bomber.
I'm just reminding people why we remember, we remember the horror of war not the glory, we remember in the hope it never happens again.
It's pointless blowing the bugle on the 11th just to beat the war drums on the 12th.
The best tribute to the dead is to vow to do everything in our power to stop wars of any kind. War causes suffering to soldiers and civilians alike, as has been seen in the recent TV programme on Belsen.
Soldiers are not treated as well as they should be - they do not choose where, why or who they fight - but they deserve our gratitude and respect. We should remember the wounded living, both in mind and body, as well as the dead and be thankful to them and ashamed that we have learnt so little.
badger, well said!
You are so right. I believe we should not only look back with gratitude, but with a realisation of the suffering and waste of human life involved in all wars, and we should also think of the servicemen and women, and the civilians, involved in today's continuing conflicts.
Camel Spider
30-Oct-07, 19:49
I apologise to the members of the forum for making a political point in what is a thread for Remembrance, an issue very important to me. I rose to an individual making a political comment and I should not have. The reason I did was because of recent comments made on a thread by this individual insulting and implying things about me as an ex serviceman, this is why I took a break from the forum for a while. For him now to do a 180 on the opinions on Servicemen expressed to me makes me, to say the least, a tad miffed.
I would ask that people do not forget after Sunday, the indifference to the need and suffering of veterans of all conflicts is something I am passionate about. Working with them is eye opening and rewarding, they are truly unique and humble individuals and we need to treat them a LOT better.
Again I apologise.
Honour the Covenant.
I am closing this thread as it has become a soapbox and not a reminder to be proud of wearing your Poppy
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