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BRIE
07-Oct-07, 11:19
I went to tescos last night with my 4 children to get a few items for a night in with a film, just the normal sweets, juice, chocolate & bottle of wine for my partner & myself.
As we were in a bit of a rush we decided to go to the self serve checkout, I took the items out of the trolley handing them to my 11 yr old daughter to scan, she'd just finished scanning the wine when the assistant rushed over grabbed the wine & said to my daughter" im sorry but your far to young to be buying that!!" now my first reaction was to laugh as i thought she was joking! but no she was being very serious.She continued to void the sale of the wine.At this point i said " ok I will scan the wine myself" her reply was "No you cant do that it has to go through as a different sale" I obviously asked why as it was all my shopping. to be told the person who scans the item is the customer! I looked at her a bit confused as she didnt seriously think my 11yr old was out shopping on her own when we were obviously a family! but no this lady stood there holding the wine until id finished paying then handed me back the wine. I told her she could keep it as i wasnt goin to do a card payment for just £3!
Pure lunacy if you ask me! Think she might of been taking her job a bit to seriously!:lol:

Ash
07-Oct-07, 11:22
im sorry i had to laugh at this, for goodness sake, how silly, i would be annoyed if that happened to me!

hope u had a nice evening anyways :D

BRIE
07-Oct-07, 11:25
I was rather annoyed once id thought about it! but sure the local shop appreciated it as i stopped & bought 2 bottles of wine from them!:lol:
thanks ash i had a great evening.

connieb19
07-Oct-07, 11:38
That's crazy. If it was me I think I'd have left all the shopping and gone somewhere else. :eek:

BRIE
07-Oct-07, 11:41
My partner said that too connie! but the babies dinner was in the shopping so I really needed it.

Cookerpebble
07-Oct-07, 13:23
Common sense has obviously bypassed someone there.
But I work in lincenced establishments and the risk of losing it and even the fines can be horrendous.
The problem is not letting people think for themselves thesedays.

Elenna
07-Oct-07, 13:24
I had the same thing happen last week with my 14 year old son and a 15-rated DVD. He was helping me by doing the scanning...which, of course, kids just plain think is fun! :D However, (along with other items) it was my shopping, money, and clubcard. The machine beeped to notify of an age-restricted sale, and the assistant appeared and asked him his age. Since he wasn't old enough the dvd had to be voided off my shopping and I had to purchase it in a second transaction...making sure it was me scanned it in. :roll:

j4bberw0ck
07-Oct-07, 13:34
It's because the government and police are persecuting prosecuting for breaches of the extremely strict licensing laws. If you were the store manager or checkout assistant who stood to lose their job if they breach the laws, you'd probably want to stop someone's 11 year old scanning alcohol as well. You're blaming the wrong people. There's no "wiggle room" in the licensing laws, whether you think they're stupid, or not.

Blame the culture that encourages kids to drink alcohol and that thinks it's OK to get 18+ year olds or parents to supply it for them. And that's before we get to whether or not you'd want to sue Tesco if your kids were injured using equipment put out for the use of adults.

NickInTheNorth
07-Oct-07, 13:38
Well play their silly game back at them. Using their own logic, make sure you scan the first item, then that must make it your shopping, then allow whoever you want scan anything apart from age restricted items (they have a lot to lose by breaking the law).

Get hassle over that and get the duty manager out from his cave :)

emb123
07-Oct-07, 13:52
I'd have probably allowed my daughter to scan all the rest, whispered to her not to worry and we were going to have some fun winding up the idiot cashier, then gone the other side of the checkout with the rest of family. Come time to pay I'd have asked the cashier why she expected me to pay if the customer was the little girl right in front of her.

Come trouble time I would have dragged the assistant manager over. I would have pointed out to him that it is surely not part of the cashier's job description to tell parents that their child is the customer not the adult who is expected to pay, and for an incomplete basket of shopping because the cashier has has made a magisterial ruling over and above common sense.

Some people are too bossy for their own good, especially when they're dense!

Geo
07-Oct-07, 14:00
Rather than call people names why not contact Tesco head office and ask if it is policy or someone not having been trained properly? That's the only way to have it clarified and resolved if wrong.

hotrod4
07-Oct-07, 14:12
As someone who works on the tills I feel you are not being very fair.What if the cashier was reading that you called them an Idiot, how would you feel?????.


The Cashier was perfectly correct as theoretically speaking your daughter shouldnt have scanned the alcohol as that makes her the customer.The cashier would stand to pay a fine of £2,500 as would have the store,they were only doing their job.For all she knew you could have been a mystery shopper or sent by the Police to check underage sales so did EXACTLY as the law allows.

I can understand your frustration but in todays environment you have to be extremely careful with the purchase of alcohol, so I feel sorry for the cashier as they were only doing their job and all this "slagging" off of the cashier is in very poor taste.
I for one will stand up for the cashier amd I wouldnt allow my children to scan alcohol so does that make me an Idiot or a good parent?

connieb19
07-Oct-07, 14:15
I for one will stand up for the cashier amd I wouldnt allow my children to scan alcohol so does that make me an Idiot or a good parent?
Surely you dont think that someone who lets their child scan alcohol is a bad parent do you? :eek:

DeHaviLand
07-Oct-07, 14:20
Well said Hotrod, beats me why customers like to think they are always right.;)

hotrod4
07-Oct-07, 14:21
Surely you dont think that someone who lets their child scan alcohol is a bad parent do you? :eek:

Personally I wouldnt allow my children to scan alcohol as I wouldnt take my 14 year old son to the pub with me and get him to order me a pint.
I am not saying anyone is a bad parent just that in my OWN personal opinion I dont think it is appropriate for children to scan alcohol and wouldnt allow it.
Thats just my opinion and everyone is entitled to their own.

j4bberw0ck
07-Oct-07, 14:27
Iidiot cashier

Then how much of an idiot are you that you would ask


Come time to pay I'd have asked the cashier why she expected me to pay if the customer was the little girl right in front of her
when you're clearly responsible for your daughter's actions?

Do you think people working long hours in stores on less than brilliant pay, very often, enjoy being put in a position like this so some ill-mannered oaf who can't see or comprehend a picture wider than the one at the end of their nose can enjoy trying to make them look foolish? Do you feel good, trying to humiliate people?


Come trouble time I would have dragged the assistant manager over. I would have pointed out to him that it is surely not part of the cashier's job description to tell parents that their child is the customer not the adult who is expected to pay, and for an incomplete basket of shopping because the cashier has has made a magisterial ruling over and above common sense.

Wow, aren't you brave and assertive? You possibly enjoy pulling the legs off crane flies, too. I hope the manager would have given you a crash course in licensing laws and the Health and Safety rules which he / she probably likes no better than you, and his / her employer's policies (ditto) - the difference being you can choose to ignore them - the store employees can't.


Some people are too bossy for their own good, especially when they're dense!And some people are too dense for their own good especially when they're bossy. Interesting view you have of employees in retail environments.

connieb19
07-Oct-07, 14:27
Personally I wouldnt allow my children to scan alcohol as I wouldnt take my 14 year old son to the pub with me and get him to order me a pint.
I am not saying anyone is a bad parent just that in my OWN personal opinion I dont think it is appropriate for children to scan alcohol and wouldnt allow it.
Thats just my opinion and everyone is entitled to their own.There's a big difference between someone letting their kid scan the shopping and taking them to the pub for a pint. Anyone would think that just because the kid scans it they're going to be drinking it too. Out of interest, would you let your kid pack the shopping after you had scanned the alcohol?

hotrod4
07-Oct-07, 14:33
There's a big difference between someone letting their kid scan the shopping and taking them to the pub for a pint. Anyone would think that just because the kid scans it they're going to be drinking it too. Out of interest, would you let your kid pack the shopping after you had scanned the alcohol?

I wouldnt let them pack as I never buy alcohol in supermarkets when i have the kids with me! So that lets me off the hook then!
As i said thats my own personal opinion as I am sure you have your own opinion.

NickInTheNorth
07-Oct-07, 14:43
Quite simply put, if it is Tesco's policy it is a foolish policy.

The contract of sale is only complete if there is offer, acceptance, and consideration between the 2 parties to the contract.

The family group go shopping, but only one of them is the customer. The one who offers to buy goods. The shop then accepts to sell to that person, and that person then pays (consideration).

As a matter of law it matters not one jot who scans it (nor who pushes the trolley!). The customer is the contractual party.

It is probably Tesco's policy issued to prevent the need for their staff to think. Stupid Tesco!

Mr_Me19
07-Oct-07, 14:44
The Cashier was perfectly correct as theoretically speaking your daughter shouldnt have scanned the alcohol as that makes her the customer.

So surely that means every time you go to a shop and the cashier scans our items before you pay that means that they are the customer because they scanned it? *goes to sit down with head spinning*

hotrod4
07-Oct-07, 14:48
So surely that means every time you go to a shope and the cashier scans our items before you pay that means that they are the customer because they scanned it? *goes to sit down with head spinning*

THat makes no difference as this was done on SELF service- the clue is in the title!!!!!!!!

connieb19
07-Oct-07, 14:48
Surely it's the person who is paying that is the customer, no? :confused

NickInTheNorth
07-Oct-07, 14:52
THat makes no difference as this was done on SELF service- the clue is in the title!!!!!!!!

Self service or not does not matter.

There are 2 parties to the contract.

The Shop
The Customer

The shop displays items
The Customer offers to purchase.
The Shop accepts the offer to purchase.
The Customer provides the consideration (usually money or monies worth - cards etc)

The scanning is actally the shops "acceptance". Who performs the acceptance isimmaterial. It can be a checkout operator, or the Customer, and joe bloggs. The fact is that signifies the shops "acceptance". The person that pays is the "Customer" - simple matter of fact not opinion.

hotrod4
07-Oct-07, 14:54
Surely it's the person who is paying that is the customer, no? :confused

Its a very grey area.
For example if a police officer saw a child scanning alcohol would they turn a blind eye?
Legally they couldnt,and they could prosecute the store and possibly the parent as well,thats the point I am trying to make.
The police as well as the cashier have a duty of care and a responsibility to heed the law whether they personally agree with it or not.

Mr_Me19
07-Oct-07, 14:55
THat makes no difference as this was done on SELF service- the clue is in the title!!!!!!!!

Even so by that logic it means that the customer is not the one who pays? So what exactly is your definition of the word 'customer'?

Mr_Me19
07-Oct-07, 14:57
For example if a police officer saw a child scanning alcohol would they turn a blind eye?

It is illegal to BUY alcohol under the age of 18. There is no law that says that you can't scan it at a self service checkout. There may be a store policy. But definately no law.

NickInTheNorth
07-Oct-07, 14:57
Its a very grey area.
For example if a police officer saw a child scanning alcohol would they turn a blind eye?
Legally they couldnt,and they could prosecute the store and possibly the parent as well,thats the point I am trying to make.
The police as well as the cashier have a duty of care and a responsibility to heed the law whether they personally agree with it or not.

No, the police could NOT prosecute anyone for a child scanning alcohol. Provided it is not them BUYING the alcohol.

All transactions in a shop are a matter of contract. The customer pays! Not scans.

hotrod4
07-Oct-07, 14:58
Self service or not does not matter.

There are 2 parties to the contract.

The Shop
The Customer

The shop displays items
The Customer offers to purchase.
The Shop accepts the offer to purchase.
The Customer provides the consideration (usually money or monies worth - cards etc)

The scanning is actally the shops "acceptance". Who performs the acceptance isimmaterial. It can be a checkout operator, or the Customer, and joe bloggs. The fact is that signifies the shops "acceptance". The person that pays is the "Customer" - simple matter of fact not opinion.

So "the customer offers to purchase".mmmmmm......
But doesnt that mean that the daughter WAS the customer as it was they who placed the item for sale to the checkout?

And by the cashier refusing the sale the scanning never took place so didnt agree acceptance on behalf of the store?

Mr_Me19
07-Oct-07, 15:02
So "the customer offers to purchase".mmmmmm......
But doesnt that mean that the daughter WAS the customer as it was they who placed the item for sale to the checkout?

No it doesn't. Purchase means to buy. The daughter did not buy anything.

hotrod4
07-Oct-07, 15:03
It is illegal to BUY alcohol under the age of 18. There is no law that says that you can't scan it at a self service checkout. There may be a store policy. But definately no law.

BUt surely by scanning an item you are entering into a contract as a customer????
And by scanning alcohol that would be a chargable offence as under 18's cant ORDER alcohol in a bar and by scanning the alcohol at a self service doesnt that basically mean the same thing? or am i missing something here:}

On my age restricted sales training it was pointed out that you can be prosecuted for allowing a minor to scan age restricted goods at self service.

NickInTheNorth
07-Oct-07, 15:05
I'll repeat it more slowly.

There are 2 parties to the contract. The customer and the shop.

The Customer needs to do TWO things.

OFFER to purchase, and
provide CONSIDERATION (pay)

The shop has to do one thing - ACCEPT the Customer's OFFER.

The Customer need not scan the items themselves, anyone can do it. That is why there is no legal difference between a staffed checkout and a self-service checkout. Perhaps the only thng required would be to do the same as the Supermarets do when it is an underage checkout operator and get the transaction approved by an employee over 18?

The customer is the one who pays. Otherwise there would be no contract and the customers would all be stealing!

Mr_Me19
07-Oct-07, 15:06
BUt surely by scanning an item you are entering into a contract as a customer????
No because the customer is the one who buys the item.


On my age restricted sales training it was pointed out that you can be prosecuted for allowing a minor to scan age restricted goods at self service.

Can you post a link to a government site where it states this please?

NickInTheNorth
07-Oct-07, 15:09
On my age restricted sales training it was pointed out that you can be prosecuted for allowing a minor to scan age restricted goods at self service.

Then the person providing training is wrong.

Or when we scan things ourselves we are creating a contract with ourselves to purchase goods from ourselves that don't belong to us.

brandy
07-Oct-07, 15:17
the inflamatory bit is the abuse towards the cashiers.. which has no say in it what so ever. any one in retail, wheras age restricted merchandice is being sold, has to sign papers on the selling of age related products.
it dosent matter who is paying for it. some one under the age.. can not even be holding it.
while it may infuriate the cust. who thinks that it is all fine.
look at it from the person selling the products point of view.
this is their Job and livley hood.
If you see something age restricted to someone you know is underage.. you are risking not only your Job, but a court fine and possible prison time.
and just think what the likley hood of finding employment again would be like.
so even though it is a nuisence to you the cust. try to look at the side of the cashier.
i can gurantee they do not like it any better than you do.
but as a responsible adult, well its your job to see the other side of things and not to go out of your head and roar and scream at the cashier... which i have seen many many times happen.
Fireworks, are a prime example.. how do you think i feel when i tell the parent, im sorry but your children can not touch them while in the store, (even after paying for them) and you now have to go staright out the store with them.
i had a boy scream at me once.. call me several bad names, and just give me general abuse because i wouldnt sell him a stanley knife because he wasnt old enough, or had id. now i was several months preg. had not said a bad word to him, appologised because we couldnt leagally sell it to him, and still he got in my face.. and i had to ask him to leave the store.
its not easy working in retail, and being a cashier is not a brain dead job, it is a helpless position.. in which not only do you have to deal with the angry public, but must be a top class diplomat as well.

Raonaid
07-Oct-07, 15:26
Then the person providing training is wrong

I am not so sure about that, though it will probably need a wee bit of case law to make things more clear where the law stands, though I do admit the case is extremely weak.

It is illegal for a minor to act in the sale of booze on licenced premises. The minor does play a part in the sale of the booze at the checkout, just the same as a child could pull you a pint in a pub even though he isn't the owner of the pub. If the staff saw this then he/she may be guilty of aiding/abetting the sale of acohol by a minor, if they do nothing to stop it. It is a technical point and it doesn't lend any hand to allowing them to use their discretion.

hotrod4
07-Oct-07, 15:33
Alcohol is considered to present risks to consumer health and welfare; sales to people under the age of 18 are prohibited by law. As a business offering alcohol for sale, you must not sell alcohol to any person under the age of 18.

If you know, or have reasonable cause to suspect, that a person over the age of 18 is buying alcohol for anyone under the age of 18 then it is an offence to supply those goods to that person. The person who attempts to make the purchase may also be committing an offence.

Doesnt that then mean by scanning and holding the bottle of wine the daughter was attempting to purchase the alcohol?
As keeps getting thrown in my face the daughter didnt purchase the alcohol-agreed!
But by scanning the wine she legally was ATTEMPTING to purchase said alcohol and was in posession of the wine when the cashier arrived to deny sale.

The fact that the daughter didnt Purchase the alcohol is irrelevant as the law states "attempt to purchase" thus the argument about entering into a contract is non applicable.

scorrie
07-Oct-07, 15:44
Quite simply put, if it is Tesco's policy it is a foolish policy.

The contract of sale is only complete if there is offer, acceptance, and consideration between the 2 parties to the contract.

The family group go shopping, but only one of them is the customer. The one who offers to buy goods. The shop then accepts to sell to that person, and that person then pays (consideration).

As a matter of law it matters not one jot who scans it (nor who pushes the trolley!). The customer is the contractual party.

It is probably Tesco's policy issued to prevent the need for their staff to think. Stupid Tesco!

If it is a self-service checkout, then, theoretically, the underage person could pay for the item, making them the customer.

When I worked in a betting office, I often had little kids trying to put Daddy's bet on as a bit of fun but there was simply no scope for me to accommodate them. As I explained to the parents, the people who grant the betting licence take underage gambling very seriously. No licence= no job, just call me a killjoy then!!

DeHaviLand
07-Oct-07, 16:29
Then the person providing training is wrong.

Or when we scan things ourselves we are creating a contract with ourselves to purchase goods from ourselves that don't belong to us.

How reassuring that we have have people here who know much more about consumer law than a large supermarket group :roll:. Where would we be without them. We're doomed I tell you :D

nightowl
07-Oct-07, 16:37
Surely, rules is rules, is rules! For rules to work, they have to be complied with 100% of the time - not until 10pm or until we're in a hurry or until we have the kids scanning booze at the self service check out. They are there for a reason and that's to keep our kids safe and unable to have access to drink, dangerous utensils or adult material. It seems to me, the supermarkets have a nightmare situation to deal with and they are doing so with the best means at their disposal, even if it appears unreasonable at the time. It seems a minor inconvenience, in the grand scale of things, just to follow the rules. I expect there would be much quoting of rules and regulations if kids were able to access restricted material at the whim of a poor checkout operator!!

BRIE
07-Oct-07, 17:08
Rather than call people names why not contact Tesco head office and ask if it is policy or someone not having been trained properly? That's the only way to have it clarified and resolved if wrong.

sorry geo can you point out to me where i called anyone names??!
Ive written to the head office too.

telfordstar
07-Oct-07, 17:13
having just read through all the posts and I am amazed at how such a topic can get turned into such a debate with one person trying to outdo the other.
Just thought id say.

katarina
07-Oct-07, 17:14
As someone who works on the tills I feel you are not being very fair.What if the cashier was reading that you called them an Idiot, how would you feel?????.


The Cashier was perfectly correct as theoretically speaking your daughter shouldnt have scanned the alcohol as that makes her the customer.The cashier would stand to pay a fine of £2,500 as would have the store,they were only doing their job.For all she knew you could have been a mystery shopper or sent by the Police to check underage sales so did EXACTLY as the law allows.

I can understand your frustration but in todays environment you have to be extremely careful with the purchase of alcohol, so I feel sorry for the cashier as they were only doing their job and all this "slagging" off of the cashier is in very poor taste.
I for one will stand up for the cashier amd I wouldnt allow my children to scan alcohol so does that make me an Idiot or a good parent?

I understand what you're saying, but if the customer had gone to an assisted checkout, and the child had loaded the shopping onto the belt, would the policy still be the same?

BRIE
07-Oct-07, 17:16
As someone who works on the tills I feel you are not being very fair.What if the cashier was reading that you called them an Idiot, how would you feel?????.

I for one will stand up for the cashier amd I wouldnt allow my children to scan alcohol so does that make me an Idiot or a good parent?

where did I call anyone an idiot??
I didnt call her anything & if you read the post properly you will find that i never said that the assistant was in the wrong I said the policies were lunacy!

_Ju_
07-Oct-07, 17:18
The Cashier was perfectly correct as theoretically speaking your daughter shouldnt have scanned the alcohol as that makes her the customer.

No, no, no...the customer is the person who owns the means of payment. Very easy to identify in this case: the bank card has a name on it.

It has been in the news that over-zealous casheirs have refused the sale of vinegar on the basis of the age of the customer. These are just cases of common sense flying out the window with a sonic boom.

NickInTheNorth
07-Oct-07, 17:26
How reassuring that we have have people here who know much more about consumer law than a large supermarket group :roll:. Where would we be without them. We're doomed I tell you :D

Tis very easy to know contract law, and use it to show why a Supermarkets policies are being used to ensure there employees don't ever have to think.

The training is telling them the law says one thing, whereas in reality the law says nothing of the sort.

Employers ought to explain their policies and why they are not just applying the relevant laws, but ensuring that a trained monkey could do the job, after a lobotomy.

BRIE
07-Oct-07, 17:31
BUt surely by scanning an item you are entering into a contract as a customer????
And by scanning alcohol that would be a chargable offence as under 18's cant ORDER alcohol in a bar and by scanning the alcohol at a self service doesnt that basically mean the same thing? or am i missing something here:}

On my age restricted sales training it was pointed out that you can be prosecuted for allowing a minor to scan age restricted goods at self service.

ok just to throw a spanner in here. how does it work when it was actually myself that started the transaction by pressing the first button to start the sale & i scanned the last few items. does that mean im the customer or does it mean were both the customer as we both scanned items on one sale??
shouldnt the premises have signs on the self serve to state these laws?
im confused!:confused

brandy
07-Oct-07, 18:30
as far as im aware.. and from the documentation that i have read and had to sign, some one under the age.. should not even have in their posession and age restricted product.
ok in this case it was a bottle of wine, but would it be the same if said child was walking down the isles carrying a bottle of vodka?
they would not be able to go pick it off the shelves. and their are signs all over the place on the drink isle about age restriction.
tech, her scanning it and picking it up from the shelf itself is the same thing.
all age restricted items should not be handled or used by any one under that age.
and as laws get tougher and tougher... then employees have to be hard nosed about every little thing.

NickInTheNorth
07-Oct-07, 18:45
as far as im aware.. and from the documentation that i have read and had to sign, some one under the age.. should not even have in their posession and age restricted product.
ok in this case it was a bottle of wine, but would it be the same if said child was walking down the isles carrying a bottle of vodka?
they would not be able to go pick it off the shelves. and their are signs all over the place on the drink isle about age restriction.
tech, her scanning it and picking it up from the shelf itself is the same thing.
all age restricted items should not be handled or used by any one under that age.
and as laws get tougher and tougher... then employees have to be hard nosed about every little thing.

No offence is committed by anyone handling alcohol in a supermarket. The offence is buying or attempting to buy. I can happilly allow my child to pick a bottle of wine off the shelf. Put it in my trolley, put it on the checkout. They can even hand over my money to complete the transaction.

Provided I am there and it is my transaction.

Just because the various supermarket policies are totally anally retentive does not make those policies anything close to a full or accurate statement of the law.

j4bberw0ck
07-Oct-07, 19:46
No, no, no...the customer is the person who owns the means of payment. Very easy to identify in this case: the bank card has a name on it.

Nope. The customer is the one who makes an offer to treat; the offer is made when the goods are placed in a basket. The offer is accepted by the store when the goods are checked through the till / scanned by a qualified member of staff. Case law is Pharmaceutical Society of Great Britain v. Boots the Chemist, 1953, relating specifically to self-service stores.

It's an interesting point. Years ago I passed a law exam which covered invitation to treat but that was (well!) before the days of self-service scanning. I can't find any references to case law which would explain how this works. And needless to say IANAL :lol:

BUT it clearly isn't about who's paying, it's about whose offer is being accepted. Ergo, if your 11 year old places the alcohol in your basket or trolley, then your 11 year old is making the offer to treat. If the supermarket accept the transaction then they commit an offence. So presumably if you scan the goods on behalf of the shop the shop has committed an offence, which would explain why hotrod was told what he / she was told.

I think the long and short of it is that you as a customer have the right to buy or not buy from any store you please which is prepared to do business with you. But you don't have the right to put store employees' jobs in jeopardy. And since the employers terms and conditions don't have to agree with your idea of what's legal or what's going on in any customer interaction, then you should either go with the store's rules or sod off and shop elsewhere.

Easy!

brandy
07-Oct-07, 19:57
nick i know for a fact that a child can not hand over an age restricted item and offer tender for it.. wheter the parent is there or not.

as i have just in the past few days had to sign paper work to that effect.. as the age restriction on dangerous items is going up from 16-18.

dunderheed
07-Oct-07, 20:12
brandy is correct , owever i dont know if that is law or company policies , i suspect law as i know that somerfield and tesco use the same policies

DeHaviLand
07-Oct-07, 20:26
No offence is committed by anyone handling alcohol in a supermarket. The offence is buying or attempting to buy. I can happilly allow my child to pick a bottle of wine off the shelf. Put it in my trolley, put it on the checkout. They can even hand over my money to complete the transaction.

Provided I am there and it is my transaction.

Just because the various supermarket policies are totally anally retentive does not make those policies anything close to a full or accurate statement of the law.


Well, its more and more a case of pot, kettle and black here

BRIE
07-Oct-07, 21:22
I was actually more annoyed that the assistant expected me to do another transaction just for the wine on my card!
she technically should of voided all the shopping as my daughter didnt have the means to pay, but that was never questioned.

justine
07-Oct-07, 21:37
i have been reading this thread and agree and disagree with all parties, but i want to bring up something i found on the news that has nothing to do with policies but you need to read this..Then tell me how many people in wick and thurso and caithness could have there day ruined by policies....

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/edinburgh_and_east/7029892.stm:eek:

BRIE
07-Oct-07, 21:42
just read that justine & can definately say the worlds going insane! :(

Lolabelle
07-Oct-07, 22:34
No, the police could NOT prosecute anyone for a child scanning alcohol. Provided it is not them BUYING the alcohol.

All transactions in a shop are a matter of contract. The customer pays! Not scans.

We don't have alcohol sold in supermarkets here so don't have this problem, but what if the check out operator is under 18, can they scan the grog??? In Aus, you have to be over 18 to work in a licensed premises. If the shop assistant can be under 18, then it kind of makes a mockery of the rules, if not, well fair enough. The store could easily post a sign at the self serve check out to say adult content and alcohol must be scanned by over .... whatever the age is. :confused

emb123
07-Oct-07, 22:51
I read the criticisms of my earlier comments, and I'm sorry but I stand by them. I was aware j4bberw0ck of the risk of 'whoever' reading my comment. That risk doesn't change my opinion. I can only apologise for having a low 'suffer fools' threshold.

I have not observed that if, in the process of my work I make a mistake, people are necessarily going to be nice about it. In fact I have observed, on the whole that they are not. At all. Whether this situation was a mistake or not, whether this is Tesco policy or not, whether this is simply a matter of training or not I do not feel has, yet, been adequately dissected. That a child should really not be scanning alcohol etc is not in question, the cashier was correct to point this out. The mistake to my mind was the business of subsequently refusing to sell it in the same transaction to the parent when common sense would dictate that it is the parent who is going to be expected to pay. I would be highly surprised if I were to actually learn that this was Tesco policy, if I were to phone their head office to enquire.

I generally am pleasant, exceedingly so in fact when I deal with people, but I am not averse to making a sharp comment when I feel it is deserved. In my opinion the moniker fits.

There is a difference between being nice when someone makes a mistake (that'll be me), and being nice when someone is making rules up as they go along and claiming it is company policy - i.e. feeding me a line in verbal cow dung. Sometimes I just smile sweetly and walk away and sometimes I don't.

Sorry if my opinion seems harsh, but I stand by it.

Geo
07-Oct-07, 23:02
sorry geo can you point out to me where i called anyone names??!

I didn't say you did. :)

emb123
07-Oct-07, 23:07
I understand what you're saying, but if the customer had gone to an assisted checkout, and the child had loaded the shopping onto the belt, would the policy still be the same?
Very good point Katarina. Equally what would the situation if a disabled parent (who was obviously the customer) had their child do all the physical handling of the shopping, perhaps even paying for the goods using the parents' card because say the parent had no use of their hands, through arthritis, injury or whatever ?

One would hope that common sense, not officiousness would apply. But one does wonder :)

Welcomefamily
08-Oct-07, 00:04
No one under 18 is allowed to buy drink, I totally agree, an adult can buy drink for some between 14 and 18 if they are having a meal, ie a glass of wine or half pint. It is the person who serves who gets the fine for serving an under aged person.


Personally I wouldnt allow my children to scan alcohol as I wouldnt take my 14 year old son to the pub with me and get him to order me a pint.
I am not saying anyone is a bad parent just that in my OWN personal opinion I dont think it is appropriate for children to scan alcohol and wouldnt allow it.
Thats just my opinion and everyone is entitled to their own.

Welcomefamily
08-Oct-07, 00:17
It is illegal for a child under the age of 18, to be behind the bar or within 18 inches of a bar during normal licensing hours, except for children of the licensee or their friends when the bar may be used as an access to private accommodation, but can play no part in the serving of drink.
I am not so sure about that, though it will probably need a wee bit of case law to make things more clear where the law stands, though I do admit the case is extremely weak.

It is illegal for a minor to act in the sale of booze on licenced premises. The minor does play a part in the sale of the booze at the checkout, just the same as a child could pull you a pint in a pub even though he isn't the owner of the pub. If the staff saw this then he/she may be guilty of aiding/abetting the sale of acohol by a minor, if they do nothing to stop it. It is a technical point and it doesn't lend any hand to allowing them to use their discretion.

Welcomefamily
08-Oct-07, 00:54
Most licensing boards have a policy dealing with children and just looking over a couple on the computer here, most of them do state an exculsion area between alcohol and children in all licence permises including shops and supermarkets.
Caithness has one and copies should be on display in all pubs and hotels which will serve food to children.
The fine for the shop could be as much as £20,000.00 and the parent can be prosecuted as well and could face up to six months in prison. (according to BII training organisation)

However we always get our kids to unpack the shopping with us and help put it away, so I must be just as guilty

huh
08-Oct-07, 01:40
It may seem harsh, but they really want no chances of getting fined. Zero tolerance or whatever. Reminds me of this (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/merseyside/7003325.stm) story actually.

brokencross
08-Oct-07, 07:42
My daughters have worked as checkout girls in our local Tesco.
They often tell us stories of "the customer is always right brigade" and the "awkward squad" who frequent the aisles. In the above posts, I see both sets of these characteristics. Why can't people just realise that the "rules" are there for a reason, the customers benefit and the checkout staff protection.
The self service scan used to be the usual route for underage youths etc to buy their illegal booze. They are minitored by CCTV. You would be thanking the store if it stopped an underage yob from drinking and plaguing your street.
BRIE, as for buying your wine elsewhere as a pique of protest, well I do feel sorry that you felt you had to do that (and probably paid for the privelige,) did you pay card or cash? and why didn't you use same method at Tesco? Bet your back at Tesco though, but will do your own scanning.
As for Emb123, I have only sympathy for your confrontational attitude which sadly is symptomatic of society today.
Thankfully there were posters who have common sense and see the reasons for rules in our society, no matter how trivial they may seem at the time.

Welcomefamily
08-Oct-07, 08:08
I am sure at the end of the day the courts would see sense and understand, but you never know, I am a firm believer in allowing 14 year olds alcohol if out with mum and dad having food. Its seems to blunt that desire to binge drink when they are 18 (only based on my eldest two) if it happens enough.

BRIE
08-Oct-07, 09:32
BRIE, as for buying your wine elsewhere as a pique of protest, well I do feel sorry that you felt you had to do that (and probably paid for the privelige,) did you pay card or cash? and why didn't you use same method at Tesco? Bet your back at Tesco though, but will do your own scanning.(quote brokencross)

to be honest brokencross I would have left all the shopping if I hadnt been in need of the babyfood I was also buying!
I payed for my wine on my card at the local shop same method I used at tesco,( cheaper at the local shop too)as stated previously I was in a hurry & I wasnt about to put another transaction through for under a fiver! I went to do one lot of shopping not two!
Yes i will go back to shop at tesco & my children will still be doing the scanning, I havent seen any notices that states they cant do the scanning of any items including alcohol,knives,dvds etc.

paris
08-Oct-07, 10:58
She needs " The jobs worth hat " Lol jan x:lol:

Angela
08-Oct-07, 11:23
Brie, why not check the situation out with both Trading Standards and Tesco?
You should be able to find out what the law states in relation to the self scanning of age restricted products and if Tesco is applying the law and training their staff correctly. :)

rhino
08-Oct-07, 12:19
having just caught up on all the threads i can only say that no matter what tesco policy is or no matter what our own opinions or the law is, that in this society that we live in today we as the modern parents of the younger generation of the future, need to revisit and promote the rights and wrongs. I believe that yes children should be treated with respect of their age but also, that there should be the seperation between adulthood and letting children be children.

Trying not to stand on a moral highground, alchohol, cigarettes, knifes and matches etc are classed as adult products and maybe youngsters need to be guided on these.

I have seen under age drinking, youngsters smoking, children in the news being stabbed by other children.Where has their childhood gone, whats the great exitment about growing up to fast. I think its a real shame.

My family try our best to let our boys enjoy their childhood and will introduce them to adulthood appropriately.

xx_chickie
08-Oct-07, 13:01
So surely that means every time you go to a shop and the cashier scans our items before you pay that means that they are the customer because they scanned it? *goes to sit down with head spinning*


...if the logic is the same, then surely the cashier should also pay for his/her shopping which we kindly spent hours trawlling around the store to find for them?! :lol:

gem1982
10-Oct-07, 02:07
I was in tescos the other week and I tend to go first thing (on this occasion it was 10am) but its only when I am driving into the car park I think they are going to make me use the self service checkout (cos they never have more than 2 checkouts open at that time)! So anyway went round and done my shopping etc etc including a bottle of wine and a bottle of calpol for my 1 year old who was with me. Got to the checkout and granted there was actually about 5 open that morning but they all had the gates closed after customer at that till had their shopping on the belt - so I am thinking it was coming up to break time or something and the rest of the tils were being closed. So I went to the only one seemingly open but there was 3 other customers in front of me all with trolleys full and lo and behold as expected the woman comes up I will take you to self service etc etc I will give you a hand! She started me off then ed off! Leaving me to cope with scanning my shopping getting it packed (bearing in mind the bill came to £90 so I had a lot of shopping!) and amusing a 1 year old who by that time was getting more than fed up! I had a printer cartridge that needed the security tag removed, twice I had to ask her to come over, not once did she help me then when it came to the wine well well she said what age are you in might I add a not so friendly tone and I said 25, she looked me up and down and went hmmph well you dont look it!!!!! Now I dont know if she was being rude and insinuating I looked 40 or something or implying that I was underage! Then the calpol well she questioned if it was for my 1 year old child like it was bad but given the fact he is currently cutting 4 back teeth well I think it is exceptable!

So any way,moral of this story - when Tesco's say in their adverts if there is more than one person in the Q in front of you we shall try our best to open another checkout well its a load of rubbsh! Dont get me wrong I dont mind self service for maybe less than 10 items or so because it would probably be quicker than waiting in line to go through a checkout but OMGI had a trolley brimming with stuff - its the same everytime i go in!!!! I think eventually the novelty of tesco's will wear off on people - from reading another post they have increased their delivery charges and people will soon learn that maybe they are not as great as they first implied they would be!

BRIE
10-Oct-07, 09:46
well if id of been you gem1982 I would of refused to go to the self serve! I would of asked them to open another till, my mother always asks them to open another if theres more than two customers waiting.
I too only use the self serve if im in a hurry & only got a handful of things.
I do alot of my shopping online but im getting increasingly frustrated with the site now telling me items are 'currently unavailable'.
wouldnt be so bothered if it was little luxuries that i dont use every week but for the last few weeks its been the baby milk! but you go in the store & there it is sitting on the shelf![evil]

Angela
10-Oct-07, 10:04
Nothing to do with Tesco...but on the topic of age restricted sales, it appears that you can ( if you want to) purchase a crossbow at the age of 17.

I don't really understand why people would need to buy crossbows, but in any case, 17 seems such a randomly chosen age...:confused :confused

porshiepoo
10-Oct-07, 13:59
I was in tescos the other week and I tend to go first thing (on this occasion it was 10am) but its only when I am driving into the car park I think they are going to make me use the self service checkout (cos they never have more than 2 checkouts open at that time)! So anyway went round and done my shopping etc etc including a bottle of wine and a bottle of calpol for my 1 year old who was with me. Got to the checkout and granted there was actually about 5 open that morning but they all had the gates closed after customer at that till had their shopping on the belt - so I am thinking it was coming up to break time or something and the rest of the tils were being closed. So I went to the only one seemingly open but there was 3 other customers in front of me all with trolleys full and lo and behold as expected the woman comes up I will take you to self service etc etc I will give you a hand! She started me off then ed off! Leaving me to cope with scanning my shopping getting it packed (bearing in mind the bill came to £90 so I had a lot of shopping!) and amusing a 1 year old who by that time was getting more than fed up! I had a printer cartridge that needed the security tag removed, twice I had to ask her to come over, not once did she help me then when it came to the wine well well she said what age are you in might I add a not so friendly tone and I said 25, she looked me up and down and went hmmph well you dont look it!!!!! Now I dont know if she was being rude and insinuating I looked 40 or something or implying that I was underage! Then the calpol well she questioned if it was for my 1 year old child like it was bad but given the fact he is currently cutting 4 back teeth well I think it is exceptable!

So any way,moral of this story - when Tesco's say in their adverts if there is more than one person in the Q in front of you we shall try our best to open another checkout well its a load of rubbsh! Dont get me wrong I dont mind self service for maybe less than 10 items or so because it would probably be quicker than waiting in line to go through a checkout but OMGI had a trolley brimming with stuff - its the same everytime i go in!!!! I think eventually the novelty of tesco's will wear off on people - from reading another post they have increased their delivery charges and people will soon learn that maybe they are not as great as they first implied they would be!


Aye they're on the ball when it comes to the self service checkouts. I was happily shopping in the clothes section not so long ago and 3 times I was asked if I wanted to use the self service. I got so annoyed having to explain that I was still bloomin shopping!
They just seem so desperate to get every person on the self service.

Bobinovich
10-Oct-07, 15:36
Of course it makes a lot of sense getting people to scan their own stuff - in the long term it would probably mean less staff required.

It's the same with self-pay petrol pumps - I only ever use the kiosk now if the self-pay part is closed, or I'm collecting Tesco vouchers, or if they've got the fuel offer on.

poppett
10-Oct-07, 16:01
Pay at the pumps, self service in Tesco, machines in Alliance and Leicester to do pay in, take cash out and statements. Staff generally willing to train us in how these things work.......very helpful, but do they not realise they are working themselves out of jobs in the future when we are all "fully automated"?

telfordstar
10-Oct-07, 16:07
Im with gemma on this one as well you just seen to get around the corner starting at the isle with the soap powder you go to go around the corner and the woman/man seems to be like a trap door spider waiting to pounce on you ohhh you can go to this checkout and im like no im still shopping thanks. Then you go around the next isle, cleaning products, and get to the bottom and the man/woman is poucing again ill take you to self service and im like no way with a trolly load forget it to which i usually get a dirty look and just make my way to whatever checkout is open can they not just let you shop in peace. I once did say are you on commssion for self service and just got a wee laugh.

Julia
10-Oct-07, 18:58
I know it is an inconvenience but at the end of the day the sales assistant was only doing her job and following the correct store procedure. I'm quite sure there would be a huge outcry if the boot were on the other foot and someone's child was not approached when scanning alcohol, I'd certainly question it. Personally an employee of Tesco who allowed a child to scan alcohol could face a huge fine or a prison term if caught, the store itself would also face a massive fine and the loss of it's licence to sell alcohol.

Tesco operates the 'Think 21' policy and anybody appearing under the age of 21 can be asked for ID to prove that they are indeed over the age of 18. Children are not allowed to scan items such as alcohol, knives, glue, razors, certain medications etc.. I'm not knocking anyone here but personally I would not let any of my children scan a questionable item such as a bottle of wine.

ber219
10-Oct-07, 21:42
As a few people have already stated they have their policies and they are sticking to them. Those of you who have a problem with it, take your business elsewhere.

BRIE
10-Oct-07, 23:04
were not stating their policies are wrong, were saying use a bit of common sense & try putting signs up with their policies on.

Julia
10-Oct-07, 23:48
were not stating their policies are wrong, were saying use a bit of common sense & try putting signs up with their policies on.

Good point Brie! It would not hurt to have some info attached to the self-serve till indicated the policy.

nikki
11-Oct-07, 11:58
Not to get anyones backs up, and I personally dont have a problem with children scanning anything, but just one comment. If the person on the tills is under 18, they're not allowed to scan alcahol through. Wouldn't this be a similar situation on the self-service?

williem1958
11-Oct-07, 23:32
Surely common sense should have prevailed here. Is it not the person who pays for the shopping who is buying rather than the person who scans the item.[lol]

brandy
12-Oct-07, 00:34
they do put up signs with their policy.. it is on the drink isle left right and center.. it clearly states the age that can have the product. any age restricted product HAS to have signs up showing that they are age restricted.

Torvaig
12-Oct-07, 10:29
Pay at the pumps, self service in Tesco, machines in Alliance and Leicester to do pay in, take cash out and statements. Staff generally willing to train us in how these things work.......very helpful, but do they not realise they are working themselves out of jobs in the future when we are all "fully automated"?

Don't think the staff have any say in the matter; they are doing their jobs as dictated by "others who know better".

If everyone complaining took the time spent on here and elsewhere to write to the head offices of the firms concerned there may, just may, be a chance that the heid yins will listen.

I also believe in fairies.......

Ash
12-Oct-07, 11:00
if she hadnt used a self service checkout and her 11year old had placed the bottle of wine on the convyer belt would a member of staff stopped her then aswell?


i think not, its the same thing!

sweetpea
12-Oct-07, 11:05
I know this is getting away from the thread a bit but I've heard there is a website that will give you details of things in Tesco such as items that say one price on the shelf but when scanned have another such as kitchen roll for a penny or something or say tins of soup that give you 2000 clubcard points etc. Sorry I know it's half a story but I don't know the website address!!

BRIE
12-Oct-07, 12:06
they do put up signs with their policy.. it is on the drink isle left right and center.. it clearly states the age that can have the product. any age restricted product HAS to have signs up showing that they are age restricted.

no they definately dont have signs up at the tills stating their policy on scanning items!

Julia
12-Oct-07, 12:41
no they definately dont have signs up at the tills stating their policy on scanning items!

That's what I meant too, they should have a sign at the self-serve tills clearly stating their policy as to who can or can't scan items.

dandod
18-Oct-07, 01:08
before tesco opened we only had a couple of expensive supermarkets now we have one which sells goods at the same prices as all of their stores. oyu dont have to wait so long to get served as the the other supermarkets,so when someone moans at something so petty my reply to them would be shop somewhere else,and while you're donig that have a think about why tesco is one of the biggest chains in the UK and all the jobs it has taken to the area not just in wick but thurso as for the nonsense about tesco taking trade away from the town centre there was nothing there and still nothing there except overpriced goods which you can find in tesco at a fraction of the price.:)