Grammer etc.

[bluelady]

Just for those grammer police out there who hijack peeps threads,I thought I would start a GOOD HUMOURED debate on this subject, so here we go.
Is grammer important in everyday life? should people be corrected when writing or posting threads?
I think that as long as it can be read and understood, it's not important and people should'nt be corrected for it. If someone relied on a job, or was in a posistion where good grammer etc was needed, then they would be told by their employer or in the former, would be doing a course to improve. That's up to them and other peeps should'nt just butt in and presume to correct them.
Next....................

[nikki]

I think the people who jump in and start arguments about grammer and punctuation are just looking for a way to annoy people to brighten up their own day. so long as its understandable then it doesnt matter.

[Lolabelle]

Did you mean "Grammar" ??? LOL
I agree, by the way, I am a hopeless speller and bad with grammar and punctutation [lol]
But I generally make myself clear, don't I?

[golach]

I loved my Granmar [lol]

[Lolabelle]

I loved my Granmar [lol]

Golly, Golach, you're not going to try and run off with this thread are you??
Diverting it to a discussion on whether or not one loves or loved their grannies.
By the way, I do the one still alive, and the one dead, I loved her more. :Razz

[NickInTheNorth]

I loved my Granmar [lol]

You mean Grandma :lol:

[golach]

You mean Grandma :lol:
Nick, ty for pointing out my typo, I suffer from FFS [lol]

[NickInTheNorth]

and another thing doesnt it annoy you wen peeple use abbreviations without saying what they meen

[Raonaid]

I get slightly annoyed when orgers don,t put ' in da right place' it shouldn,t ,,happen,, these days¿ Even more jarring to the sense,s' is the inability to know when not to put a ' in teh event of indicating plural,s.

[webmannie]

txt spk noys me

[Lolabelle]

txt spk noys me

me 2. But sum think it gr8. [evil]

[Bobinovich]

I have no problem with grammar or spelling except where its misuse, or lack of use, changes the meaning of what is being said.

Also when a sentence runs on (or when a paragraph is written) without a comma, full stop, etc. it becomes devilish to try and decipher what the person is actually saying, and the point of the post can be misread or the post overlooked completely.

I always recommend reading a post through before hitting the submit button to ensure it reads the way I want it to sound.

[henry20]

I don't think people need to use perfect spelling/grammar, but I do think it is important. Some peoples posts on here and other sites are horrendous to read! Unless there is a medical condition, there is no need for them to be so bad - ok, the odd typo or grammar is fine, but the 'I type the way I speak' makes me wonder how uneducated our children and childrens children will be!!

Obviously (or is it just my interpretation) the spelling people use is their interpretation of the correct spelling. (?) If this is fact, then what hope do their children have? 'mum/dad how do you spell .......'

I absolutely detest text speak and dread the day that it is accepted in course work at schools, but I fear that day will come :(

Edit: a previous thread on the topic:
http://forum.caithness.org/showthread.php?p=196799 (http://forum.caithness.org/go.php?url=http://forum.caithness.org/showthread.php?p=196799)

[Thumper]

As long as it is understandable I don't have a problem with it.I myself tend to drop a few , or ' or even a . along the way,especially if i am in a hurry or just feeling plain lazy.Spelling mistakes don't tend to bother me either as we can all make mistakes and really at the end of the day is it such a big problem if it isn't spelt correctly?It's not as if it is something important like a prescription where a small mistake could be costly, it is a discussion board that has of late become a board where people think twice before posting things for fear of being mocked for spelling incorrectly or using bad punctuation.IMO if peeps only have that to complain about they either have very small minds or very sad lives :) x

[Margaret M.]

If someone relied on a job, or was in a posistion where good grammer etc was needed, then they would be told by their employer or in the former, would be doing a course to improve.

I do try to to use proper spelling and grammar but until I'm perfect (shouldn't be long now :)), I won't be correcting anyone else. As to your point above, I'd be very surprised if someone using bad grammar and spelling gets as far as an interview, for any job requiring good grammar. I think we owe it to ourselves to do the very best we can no matter where we are writing or speaking.

[henry20]

If I got an application in for a job and the covering letter had very poor spelling and/or grammar, I doubt I would look further than the covering letter!

Please note: I have a typo in my post on the linked thread (and probably many others - tiredness often takes over!!) and will never claim to be perfect. Nor will I criticise others for bad spelling in a post, but I will admit to not reading posts that take longer to read because of spelling/grammar. If people get overlooked - be it for a job interview or a member of a community forum - then maybe it is important!

[karia]

Hi Folks,

My husband went though the school system two years ahead of me and was taught grammar and punctuation. When my time came, we were taught neither and pretty much left to rely on instinct.:(

Many years later, I still have to rely on what 'looks right' and I envy my husband his easy proficiency in this area.

Karia

[scorrie]

I know you shouldn't laugh about spelling and grammar mistakes but I sometimes can't help having a chuckle. Since this thread mentioned a humourous debate, I thought I would present this offering:-

A few years ago we heard word that a person who had been put on the sex offenders register was being moved into the street. Other residents also heard this and found out the exact address in question. The next thing we know there is a load of graffiti on the walls of this house. Suffice to say that the Police would have been able to narrow their search for the culprit(s) after reading the words, and I quote "Perfert" and "Peediefile" on the walls!!

Peediefile:- Very small rasping tool used in delicate metalworking. ;)

[rockchick]

I just finished a work-held course on "Technical Writing" where the first things covered were the roles of words within a sentence (noun, verb, adverb, etc.), grammar, punctuation and so on. I was amazed that most of my colleagues, who are all university graduates, did not learn these basics in primary school. I just took it for granted that everyone had to learn what a noun was, and where to put a comma.

I think this is a widespread problem, which should be addressed in our (already overstressed) primary school's curriculum.

[cuddlepop]

I just finished a work-held course on "Technical Writing" where the first things covered were the roles of words within a sentence (noun, verb, adverb, etc.), grammar, punctuation and so on. I was amazed that most of my colleagues, who are all university graduates, did not learn these basics in primary school. I just took it for granted that everyone had to learn what a noun was, and where to put a comma.

I think this is a widespread problem, which should be addressed in our (already overstressed) primary school's curriculum.

I find that I've forgotten most of what I learned in respect of grammer and
punctuation.
I think too that if you use grammer etc on a regular bases say for report writting you dont lose it.
At times when I'm really stressed, all correct use of language goes out the window.
I come on here to de stress and hope everyone accept's my short comings.
correct use of punctuation shouldn't put people off using the Org..... your a friendly bunch:)

[badger]

My own mistakes annoy me far more than other people's - especially if I see them after I've sent, say, an email so too late to correct. Or even worse, a post [disgust] . I do tend to notice grammar/spelling mistakes but they don't bother me unless they make it hard to understand what someone is saying, like posts in txt. Can't be doing with them.

What is much harder to forgive is a notice or printed document that hasn't been checked. Proof-reading is so important and I know (from bitter experience) it's impossible to proof-read your own work. I picked up a copy of the Pulteneytown Peoples Project leaflet when I was in their office recently and it's just full of mistakes - spelling, grammar, punctuation - you name it, they've done it, including the dreaded apostrophe when they mean plural. It's well designed, beautifully printed, interesting - so why on earth didn't someone proof read it? And (never begin a sentence with And ) how many young people may have read it and thought it must be correct because it's in print.

[Margaret M.]

And (never begin a sentence with And ) how many young people may have read it and thought it must be correct because it's in print.

Starting a sentence with a conjunction used to be a no-no but now it is totally acceptable to begin a sentence with And or But, although it is considered less formal.

[Elenna]

I have been doing writing of different sorts pretty much all my life (I got my first prize for a story when I was 6, and that got me completely hooked!), so I don't have much trouble myself with spelling, grammar, or punctuation...typing, though, is a completely different kettle of fish. :lol:

However, while I think these basic mechanics of written language are hugely important to know for things like work-related requirements, printed material that will be distributed publically, giving a formal speech, etc, I have always considered message boards to be the online equivalent of meeting up with a few people whilst out shopping, or stopping in a cafe for an informal chat with friends :). In such a setting (especially in conversation), "rules" are a lot more relaxed, and I tend to be far less precise with my own writing on here than I would be when writing an article, for example. I also have no trouble with how anyone else here writes what they want to say, so long as it is clear enough to be understood.

Having said that, I think it is also the responsibility of those posting to a forum to try to show consideration for those who might be reading, and do their best to use basic punctuation and spelling. After all, there is no use posting if nobody is going to be able to follow what you are trying to say!

[Whitewater]

I don't like people who try to make others look small by pointing out or highlighting their errors.

One of the things I really like about Caithness.org, and this forum in general, is the fact that all the members come from different backgrounds, and there is a great range of educational levels displayed. It makes it all very interesting. Some of the posts, which made me think, and were obviously written with genuine feeling, have not been the well written, grammatically correct posts, but the ones where the person or persons writing them had obviously felt very strongly about the subject, and had struggled to make themselves understood. I applaude them for having the courage to make their voice heard, knowing that they were having difficulty in communicating.

Sure, I have had to read some of them several times to get the gist, and fully understand what was being said, but that is no big deal.

I remember many years ago when I was involved in writing procedures for some difficult and intricate tasks at work. My boss told me the reason for the procedure was not to display how clever (or otherwise) I was, but to make the task clear and explicit to the most poorly educated person on the team.
From that, I always wrote as correctly as I could, using simple language and words, while at the same time attempting to get the punctuation correct (in as far as I knew). I pride myself in thinking that between my boss at that time, and myself, we could have brought in monkeys to do the job. (Only if they could read of course).

One of the great advantages of writing in "Word" is having a spelling checker, which follows your every effort and corrects all your mistakes.

Pity there isn't one here. Something to think about Bill/Niall.

[karia]

Hi Elenna,

I am totally in agreement.

My degree and post grad studies have all been about the way language is both used and interpreted.

I appreciate the diversity of accent and dialect on this site, whilst understanding that clarity is all important to all communication...the two are far from mutually exclusive!:eek::confused

I have no difficulty in understanding any of you and am especially delighted by those who are honest and adept enough to type in the language they choose to speak!

karia

[helenwyler]

Although my degree, training and work have all been connected with various aspects of language, I personally don't give two hoots about people's spelling and punctuation on this forum!:)

Good spelling and punctuation are neither virtues, nor signs of intelligence.

They're obviously crucial in some situations, but not here. There are many real reasons why some people are better at spelling and punctuation than others, and deriding posters for their weakness in that area is mean and small-minded IMO:eek:!!

[fred]

Starting a sentence with a conjunction used to be a no-no but now it is totally acceptable to begin a sentence with And or But, although it is considered less formal.

But starting a sentence with a conjunction never has been a no-no. There was a period when many teachers discouraged it but it has never been against the rules of grammar. Shakespear did it, all the great poets and authors did it, if you read the bible there are probably more sentences starting with a conjunction than not. It's perfectly acceptable and always has been.

[Tubthumper]

I love communication, I love words, always have; I like to play with 'em, mess around and really make them work for their living. My education was basic, but I've been privileged in having opportunities to develop and use my skills in roles I enjoy.
I see challenges every time there's a need for me to speak or write - can I (a) get the point across? (b) capture the attention of those on the receiving end, persuading them to give me their time and (c) an I send them away with a warm, moist feeling of satisfaction, having 'gained' something from our exchange. And that can include stretching the punctuation, even introducing new words (like 'performage' in the tazer poem). Does anyone mind?
Written communication exists on a huge range of different levels, so that the right information can be exchanged at the right level. "2 pints the day" scribbled on a wee bit paper will get you your milk. However, in order to get the bloke who loads the oil onto the supertanker to do so without spilling it and greasing up the porpoises, a somewhat more technical 'write' is needed.
Horses for courses is the point; we're here for fun. Some on the org are good at writing, some not so good. So what? Do we 'get' the communication that's intended? Usually yes. It sometimes gets on my nips when there's no ' or, or capitals, but hey, that's life.
IMHO (god I hate that lettery stuff) those who pick on poor spelling or punctuation just need a bit more roughage in their diet. But it's all part of the great and complex tapestry that is woven by our dear .org, reflecting as it does the myriad interactions between those of us (of whatever educational level) who love our County and its people, and could not bear to live without them...

IMHO

[Jeemag_USA]

No point in me pointing out the obvious spelling mistake in this grammar thread, its already been done.

No I have a severe dislike for the grammar and spelling police, they usually come out when they are losing an argument and make comments on the way people spell and so on because they have no comeback, very tedious.

I always believed if you understand what the person is saying, thats all that is important, when I read the word grammer i know what it means even if I know its spelled wrong, so no need to mention it.

I make typos rather than spelling mistakes, I type really really fast and can't be bothered checking it when I am done. But as long as people understand what I am saying thats all that matters isn't it.

[Kenn]

If some one writes intelligibly then that is all that matters,whether in dialect or proper grammar it makes no difference.The main tenet is to make sure that you say what you want to express and can be understood.
I love the interchange between languages and dialects and also find it fascinating that there are so many within these islands.

I remember reading many years ago about a letter that was addressed to.
DE GENERATE BAWD.LONDON.

Our wonderful mail service correctly delivered it to The Central Generating Board!

[Metalattakk]

I find that I've forgotten most of what I learned in respect of grammer and
punctuation.
I think too that if you use grammer etc on a regular bases say for report writting you dont lose it.
At times when I'm really stressed, all correct use of language goes out the window.
I come on here to de stress and hope everyone accept's my short comings.
correct use of punctuation shouldn't put people off using the Org..... your a friendly bunch:)

*Bites lip*
*Refuses to respond*

[lol]

[TBH]

Split infinitives and double negatives, how very dare you?

[mccaugm]

My children and my hubbie get annoyed when I correct their grammar. I know I am far from perfect but there are certain things they say that just wind me up. My hubbie always mixes up "done" and "did". My elder children are always telling me they have been "learnt" something instead of "being taught". Grr,,,if this makes me annoying, pedantic or nitpicky...tough!

[Metalattakk]

Split infinitives and double negatives, how very dare you?

How very indeed. :D


My children and my hubbie get annoyed when I correct their grammar. I know I am far from perfect but there are certain things they say that just wind me up. My hubbie always mixes up "done" and "did". My elder children are always telling me they have been "learnt" something instead of "being taught". Grr,,,if this makes me annoying, pedantic or nitpicky...tough!


Yay! Excellent post, mccaugm!

[Cattach]

Just for those grammer police out there who hijack peeps threads,I thought I would start a GOOD HUMOURED debate on this subject, so here we go.
Is grammer important in everyday life? should people be corrected when writing or posting threads?
I think that as long as it can be read and understood, it's not important and people should'nt be corrected for it. If someone relied on a job, or was in a posistion where good grammer etc was needed, then they would be told by their employer or in the former, would be doing a course to improve. That's up to them and other peeps should'nt just butt in and presume to correct them.
Next....................


Hardly worth discussing it with you if you cannot even spell the word Grammar!!

[northener]

Tubthumper, I almost wept with joy reading your post.

I am all warm and moist now.:eek:

I'm not too bothered about typos' (?) or grammatical mistakes. As long as the point gets across I couldn't give a monkeys.

there is however one thing that gets my goat its people who probably without thinking roll what should be really on reflection something that could do with being broken down into more than one sentance all into one long indecipherable string its extremely irritating try and pick up where the punctuation should be does this make sense its not difficult im sure if you have the wit required to operate a keyboard and do basic spelung then sticking some commas orfullstopsinshouldntbe too difficultyou probably dont realise how bloody hard it is for me to do this without sticking in some punctuation wordsrunning together are hard the goat has been gotten has the goat eaten my copy of the beano the goat has left the building

[bluelady]

Hardly worth discussing it with you if you cannot even spell the word Grammar!!

It was done deliberate - tongue in cheek- see who noticed :D

[bluelady]

Just for you Cattach
if yuo can raed tihs, you hvae a sgtrane mnid, too.
Can you raed tihs? Olny 55 plepoe out of 100 can.

i cdnuolt blveiee taht I cluod aulaclty uesdnatnrd waht I was rdanieg. The phaonmneal pweor of the hmuan mnid, aoccdrnig to a rscheearch at Cmabrigde Uinervtisy, it dseno't mtaetr in waht oerdr the ltteres in a wrod are, the olny iproamtnt tihng is taht the frsit and lsat ltteer be in the rghit pclae. The rset can be a taotl mses and you can sitll raed it whotuit a pboerlm. Tihs is bcuseae the huamn mnid deos not raed ervey lteter by istlef, but the wrod as a wlohe. Azanmig huh? yaeh and I awlyas tghuhot slpeling was ipmorantt! [lol]

[Metalattakk]

Tubthumper, I almost wept with joy reading your post.

I am all warm and moist now.:eek:

I'm not too bothered about typos' (?) or grammatical mistakes. As long as the point gets across I couldn't give a monkeys.

there is however one thing that gets my goat its people who probably without thinking roll what should be really on reflection something that could do with being broken down into more than one sentance all into one long indecipherable string its extremely irritating try and pick up where the punctuation should be does this make sense its not difficult im sure if you have the wit required to operate a keyboard and do basic spelung then sticking some commas orfullstopsinshouldntbe too difficultyou probably dont realise how bloody hard it is for me to do this without sticking in some punctuation wordsrunning together are hard the goat has been gotten has the goat eaten my copy of the beano the goat has left the building

LOL! I'm out of breath after reading that! :D

[Metalattakk]

Just for you Cattach
if yuo can raed tihs, you hvae a sgtrane mnid, too.
Can you raed tihs? Olny 55 plepoe out of 100 can.

i cdnuolt blveiee taht I cluod aulaclty uesdnatnrd waht I was rdanieg. The phaonmneal pweor of the hmuan mnid, aoccdrnig to a rscheearch at Cmabrigde Uinervtisy, it dseno't mtaetr in waht oerdr the ltteres in a wrod are, the olny iproamtnt tihng is taht the frsit and lsat ltteer be in the rghit pclae. The rset can be a taotl mses and you can sitll raed it whotuit a pboerlm. Tihs is bcuseae the huamn mnid deos not raed ervey lteter by istlef, but the wrod as a wlohe. Azanmig huh? yaeh and I awlyas tghuhot slpeling was ipmorantt! [lol]

Aye, well done. If it was as easy as that, why not write like that all the time?

[northener]

I would argue that to read that post you need a good understanding of the basic structure of the words involved.

This would imply you would probably need to be able to spell pretty reasonably. If you cannot grasp the structure of the word in the correct order I believe you would struggle with this.

I remember back in the mid-sixties there were some primary schools who tried to introduce learning words by writing them phonetically.

Example: " Ay lyk to wey the frewt for the elefant"

Even as a six-year old this struck me as patronising tripe ( though i probably said summat like "this is crap, Miss" at the time).

Thank god my school didn't take it on bord - board!, sorry.

[porshiepoo]

I actually did really well at school with punctuation, gramma and spelling but I think as time has gone on I've gotten really lazy with it and don't put as much effort into it anymore. That's really sad I know, I'd hate for my kids to have the same attitude toward it. I shall try harder in the future!

Just for the record though, I generally find posts on here pretty readable. There are the odd ones that spell as they speak which can be quite hard to decipher sometimes but I don't think we need to call in the word police just yet.
What I really hate though is text spelling especially if it's mixed in with proper spelling. I know it can be quicker to type but it takes ages to work it all out, in fact for me personally Hieroglyphics make more sense. :confused

[j4bberw0ck]

if yuo can raed tihs, you hvae a sgtrane mnid, too.
Can you raed tihs? Olny 55 plepoe out of 100 can.

i cdnuolt blveiee taht I cluod aulaclty uesdnatnrd waht I was rdanieg.

First time I've ever seen that with the suggestion that only 55% of people can read it. Doesn't that then rather shoot itself in the foot by later saying
the huamn mnid deos not raed ervey lteter by istlef, but the wrod as a wlohe. Azanmig huh? yaeh and I awlyas tghuhot slpeling was ipmorantt!

Well, either it is, or it isn't. I happen to think it is. Without spelling (but more importantly, grammar and punctuation) the chances of getting any complex message across, accurately, to another intelligent human being is greatly reduced - we'll leave the txt spkrs out of the definition of intelligent for this purpose. Anyone who uses txtspk outside of a mobile phone and with their close friends is far too complacent to expect to get a job, for instance.

I was fascinated to hear on the BBC news last night - several times - that the jury at the Diana inquest saw video of themselves taken a few minutes before they died.

What the newsreader meant was (of course) video of Diana taken a few minutes before she, Diana, died. Amazing how important for meaning a misplaced comma, or a misplaced emphasis, is.

[northener]

Going back to the construction of words and sentances , remember, commenting on scansion could be seen as being rodomontade;)

[percy toboggan]

Although my degree, training and work have all been connected with various aspects of language, I personally don't give two hoots about people's spelling and punctuation on this forum!:)

Good spelling and punctuation are neither virtues, nor signs of intelligence.

They're obviously crucial in some situations, but not here. There are many real reasons why some people are better at spelling and punctuation than others, and deriding posters for their weakness in that area is mean and small-minded IMO:eek:!!

Balderdash...it is rudeness, plain and simple.Many of the best minds I know are capable of rudeness. Small minds seldom challlenge such weakness for fear of being found out themselves. You seem to use the term 'small minded' to sum up people you do not like. You are not alone in brandishing the term in the kind of gung-ho manner that does you a dis-service. Who is to say you are not 'small minded' yourself?

The main reason some are better at spelling and composing text is because they have had an education.
Such qualities are not entirely indicative of intelligence, and in any case common sense - an equally valuable commodity, often has little to do with intelligence.

Any post that carries dreadful spelling, poor punctuation and even resorts to ghastly 'text speak' sadly carries less weight in my opinion. That's just the way it is - it's an unfair world.

[squidge]

Grammar and spelling and punctuation are all important, however sometimes the message is more important. If you are writing a business report or an application for a job you must get it right, but if you are posting something passionately on a forum i think the gist of what you are saying is the most important thing. I find it irksome to have spelling mistakes and grammatical errors pointed out by someone you have been having a heated discussion with as it is often used as a put down and is patronising and detracts from the flow of the debate.

As long as we can understand each other here then we are all doing an alright job spell it wrong punctuate it wrong - it doesnt matter

[paris]

As long as we all understand each other does it really matter ? Obviously for official documentation yes it does but were amongst friends here, are we not ?? janx

[Thumper]

Grammar and spelling and punctuation are all important, however sometimes the message is more important. If you are writing a business report or an application for a job you must get it right, but if you are posting something passionately on a forum i think the gist of what you are saying is the most important thing. I find it irksome to have spelling mistakes and grammatical errors pointed out by someone you have been having a heated discussion with as it is often used as a put down and is patronising and detracts from the flow of the debate.

As long as we can understand each other here then we are all doing an alright job spell it wrong punctuate it wrong - it doesnt matter
Well said Squidge!IMO anyone who mocks others are the ones who need educated,not the person who has misspelt,dropped a, or a ' or a .!!I would never be so ignorant that i would feel the need to point out these mistakes just to win a debate,and I would never mock somebody for their posting, simply because I do not know the person,therefore i am in no place to talk about whether they have or have not had an education, or indeed whether or not they have somekind of learning disability!We cannot see or indeed know who everybody posting on this forum are, so why would we feel that we could attack them personally for their contribution to the board?It is childish and irresponsible and should not be allowed to happen on this forum x

[Angela]

Grammar, spelling and punctuation are important to me - that's because of how I was educated, and because I find languages (not only English) fascinating.
Probably that makes me seem pedantic at times! :roll:
I think it's a courtesy to other people to express yourself as clearly as possible, so they don't have to struggle to try to understand what you mean.
For me, txt should be reserved for mobile phones.
I'd admit that I might find a well written post more persuasive than one with very poor grammar and spelling, even if the views expressed were much the same. That's because it's easier to read, not because I'm making judgements about the intelligence of the poster.
Not everyone has had an education with a good grounding in English, and many people do genuinely struggle with the use of language. One member of my family is dyslexic, and has had to make a huge effort with spelling all his life.
I'd never draw attention to someone else's spelling mistakes or poor grammar, because I just don't know how difficult they may have found posting.
My role, on this forum at least, is not that of English Teacher! ;)

[rockchick]

Punctuation can be incredibly important to make yourself understood. A classic case in point - consider these two sentences:

A woman without her man is nothing.

A woman: without her, man is nothing.

Completely different meanings, all due to punctuation.

I think it might have been Robert Louis Stevenson who said, "Don't write to be understood. Write so that you cannot be misunderstood."

[armanisgirl]

I have a twin brother. We were in the same class throughout primary and secondary education. His writing is appalling, his grammar is appalling, his spelling is appalling. Why is this? It can't just be as a result of good/bad standards of education, considering we were in the same class. English was one of my better subjects throughout school, whereas it was one of my brother's worst! I've always said, and had said to me, you're either good at English or good at Maths. (I'm crap at Maths! He's good at Maths!). Standard of education provided certainly may help, but it can't be the only reason behind spelling, grammar ad punctuation errors.

As for text speak, I admit I do it on the mobile, butg only half-heartedly, as I once found myself at work typing a letter to a client using text language!! Major ooooops! Lol! A sign of the times to come maybe? I certainly hope not!

[armanisgirl]

P.S. I have a very dodgy 'g' key on my laptop so no slagging ofgf my typos please? lol. I really should get itg fixed, I know!

[percy toboggan]

I have a twin brother. We were in the same class throughout primary and secondary education. His writing is appalling, his grammar is appalling, his spelling is appalling. Why is this? It can't just be as a result of good/bad standards of education, considering we were in the same class. English was one of my better subjects throughout school, whereas it was one of my brother's worst! I've always said, and had said to me, you're either good at English or good at Maths. (I'm crap at Maths! He's good at Maths!). Standard of education provided certainly may help, but it can't be the only reason behind spelling, grammar ad punctuation errors.

As for text speak, I admit I do it on the mobile, butg only half-heartedly, as I once found myself at work typing a letter to a client using text language!! Major ooooops! Lol! A sign of the times to come maybe? I certainly hope not!
A fascinating insight into twindom. Thanks.

English is my strong suit, but I'm not good at maths - arithmetic yes...maths definitely not.
As for a 'sign of things to come' you may well be right.

[Welcomefamily]

As a twin myself I have spent a few hours looking at differences in performance between twins, can did your social experiences differ? did he spend more time out playing? do you both write with the same hand?
How is the most creative you? and your brother most logical?

[fred]

Punctuation can be incredibly important to make yourself understood. A classic case in point - consider these two sentences:

A woman without her man is nothing.

A woman: without her, man is nothing.

Completely different meanings, all due to punctuation.

I think it might have been Robert Louis Stevenson who said, "Don't write to be understood. Write so that you cannot be misunderstood."

"Mr. Speaker, I said the honorable member was a liar it is true and I am sorry for it. The honorable member may place the punctuation where he pleases."

Richard Brinsley Sheridan M.P.

[Elenna]

I have a twin brother. We were in the same class throughout primary and secondary education. His writing is appalling, his grammar is appalling, his spelling is appalling. Why is this? It can't just be as a result of good/bad standards of education, considering we were in the same class. English was one of my better subjects throughout school, whereas it was one of my brother's worst! I've always said, and had said to me, you're either good at English or good at Maths. (I'm crap at Maths! He's good at Maths!). Standard of education provided certainly may help, but it can't be the only reason behind spelling, grammar ad punctuation errors.

As for text speak, I admit I do it on the mobile, butg only half-heartedly, as I once found myself at work typing a letter to a client using text language!! Major ooooops! Lol! A sign of the times to come maybe? I certainly hope not!

That is very interesting about yourself and your twin brother, Armanisgirl :)

I once boarded with a family in which the dad originally came from a poor background. Above the basic level, he was pretty much self-educated, and as a result he always felt (and would repeatedly emphasize to his own children and other young people) that education was a hugely important thing in their lives. He was a wonderful man who, sadly, is gone now.

But amongst his other insistences, he often repeated the thought that spelling...along with grammar and other writing skills, but definitely spelling, in particular...was a talent, just like playing an instrument well, or painting beautiful pictures. Most people could be taught the basics to a certain level, but to become a "master" it takes someone with the talent for it.

I've sometimes thought about this idea, and it could very well be he was right.

[sam]

who is to say it is right to have perfect grammer & punctuation, in a perfect world maybe, but everyone learns at different levels and there are quite a lot of folk who have dyslexia and other learning difficulties and will therefore make mistakes.
What really riles me is folk who pull others up over it when they have absolutely no way of knowing if that person has learning difficulties or not

[northener]

To be honest, in my experience, I have lost count of how many students I have taught who, when presented with the written revision and questions come out with 'Oh, I'm dyslexic'.

Susequent tuition sessions invariably show the student has no problem reading or understanding what's involved. The 'dyslexia' is never mentioned after they realise the written work isn't as taxing as they expected......

And before anybody pounces on me - yes, I have taught students who genuinely struggle with the written word. Invariably, they're the ones who don't mention it until it becomes obvious to me that there is a problem.

[sam]

its like everything else, there will always be chancers lol:roll:

[Julia]

Bad grammar, spelling and punctuation is a pet hate of mine. [disgust]

I always make the effort and it bugs me when others don't (unless they have a good excuse, i.e. dyslexia).

I've noticed now though as I am getting older that I continually question whether I have spelt a word correctly or not, my spelling used to be excellent but has really gone down hill lately, I'm pretty sure it's down to pregnancy - I'm forgetful, generally dopey and quite often can't think of a particular word to describe something, some days I can't even string a sentence together, it's driving me mad!

Dyslexia is all too often an excuse for pure laziness, if someone is unlucky enough to really have dyslexia shouldn't they be given something to prove to employers and the like that the reasons for their poorly completed application forms etc.. are completely legitimate?

[Riffman]

My browser checks spelling/grammer automatically for me anyway.

Firefox with plug ins BTW.

[Julia]

I too use Firefox but the spell checker does not work :(

[scorrie]

My browser checks spelling/grammer automatically for me anyway.

Firefox with plug ins BTW.

Funny, it doesn't like like the word grammer when I am using it, seems like grammar is OK though. Maybe it is lulling you into a false sense of security ;)

[j4bberw0ck]

My browser checks spelling/grammer automatically for me anyway

Wrong, oh modern age browser! It checks spelling, not grammar.

And the spell check needs to be treated with care since as you unwittingly showed us, it's not context-sensitive. You meant grammar. Perhaps you could while away a few of those interminable seconds by doing a quick sanity-check on your typing? :lol::lol:

[Lolabelle]

Wrong, oh modern age browser! It checks spelling, not grammar.
I have a grammar check in word, but I turn it off as it mucks up everything when I am writing my ms. :eek:

[henry20]

Just for you Cattach
if yuo can raed tihs, you hvae a sgtrane mnid, too.
Can you raed tihs? Olny 55 plepoe out of 100 can.

i cdnuolt blveiee taht I cluod aulaclty uesdnatnrd waht I was rdanieg. The phaonmneal pweor of the hmuan mnid, aoccdrnig to a rscheearch at Cmabrigde Uinervtisy, it dseno't mtaetr in waht oerdr the ltteres in a wrod are, the olny iproamtnt tihng is taht the frsit and lsat ltteer be in the rghit pclae. The rset can be a taotl mses and you can sitll raed it whotuit a pboerlm. Tihs is bcuseae the huamn mnid deos not raed ervey lteter by istlef, but the wrod as a wlohe. Azanmig huh? yaeh and I awlyas tghuhot slpeling was ipmorantt! [lol]

While I can read this, I would prefer not to! At the same time, ALL the words contain the correct letters. So you still need to know the correct content in the first place. Nowhere in the text does it say 'make sure the first and last letters are the same, then put whatever you want in the middle'!!

Just a thought, but do the majority of dyslexics feel that spelling is unimportant? I was under the impression that many felt it was important and thats why they struggle to get it right - and are the last to admit to having dyslexia.

[Julia]

My Firefox spell checker now works, although it highlights the word Firefox as a mistake [lol]

[j4bberw0ck]

Just found this on a bike forum I visit from time to time:

Why English is hard to learn:

01) The bandage was wound around the wound.
02) The farm was used to produce produce.
03) The dump was so full that it had to refuse more refuse.
04) We must polish the Polish furniture.
05) He could lead if he would get the lead out.
06) The soldier decided to desert his dessert in the desert.
07) Since there is no time like the present, he thought it was time to present the present.
08 A bass was painted on the head of the bass drum
09) When shot at, the dove dove into the bushes.
10) I did not object to the object.
11) The insurance was invalid for the invalid.
12) There was a row among the oarsmen about how to row.
13) They were too close to the door to close it.
14) The buck does funny things when the does are present.
15) A seamstress and a sewer fell down into a sewer line.
16) To help with planting, the farmer taught his sow to sow.
17) The wind was too strong to wind the sail
18 After a number of injections my jaw got number.
19) Upon seeing the tear in the painting I shed a tear.
20) I had to subject the subject to a series of tests
21) How can I intimate this to my most intimate friend?

There is no egg in eggplant nor ham in hamburger; neither apple nor pine in pineapple. English muffins weren't invented in England or French fries in France. Sweetmeats are candies while sweetbreads, which aren't sweet, are meat.

Quicksand works slowly, boxing rings are square and a guinea pig is neither from Guinea nor is it a pig. And why is it that writers write but fingers don't fing, grocers don't groce and hammers don't ham?

If the plural of tooth is teeth, why isn't the plural of booth beeth? One goose, 2 geese. So one moose, 2 meese? If you have a bunch of odds and ends and get rid of all but one of them, what do you call it? Is it an odd, or an end?

If teachers taught, why didn't preachers praught? If a vegetarian eats vegetables, what does a humanitarian eat? In what language do people recite at a play and play at a recital? Ship by truck and send cargo by ship?

Have noses that run and feet that smell?

How can a slim chance and a fat chance be the same, while a wise man and a wise guy are opposites?

You have to marvel at the unique lunacy of a language in which your house can burn up as it burns down, in which you fill in a form by filling it out,
and in which, an alarm goes off by going on.

[Raonaid]

Are other languages devoid of synonyms?

[j4bberw0ck]

Are other languages devoid of synonyms?

Synonyms are different words having the same meaning...........:lol:

[rockchick]

These would be homonyms...words that look the same but mean different things

To answer your question, I believe other languages (Chinese springs to mind) have the same issue, wherein the pronunciation of a word completely changes its meaning.

[Angela]

To answer your question, I believe other languages (Chinese springs to mind) have the same issue, wherein the pronunciation of a word completely changes its meaning.

Not so much different pronunciation as different "pitch", rockchick. I think there are three possible pitches but I'm not sure. Although I love learning languages, Chinese isn't something I've attempted...;)
In some languages (Greek is a prime example) stress is very important too - words can be spelled identically, but stressing one syllable rather than another can change the meaning completely...if you get it wrong, you can end up with a very red face! :eek:

[rockchick]

In some languages (Greek is a prime example) stress is very important too - words can be spelled identically, but stressing one syllable rather than another can change the meaning completely...if you get it wrong, you can end up with a very red face! :eek:

Sounds like you know this from experience...Any personal examples you'd care to share with us??? :cool:

[Jeemag_USA]

Just found this on a bike forum I visit from time to time:

Why English is hard to learn:

01) The bandage was wound around the wound.
02) The farm was used to produce produce.
03) The dump was so full that it had to refuse more refuse.
04) We must polish the Polish furniture.
05) He could lead if he would get the lead out.
06) The soldier decided to desert his dessert in the desert.
07) Since there is no time like the present, he thought it was time to present the present.
08 A bass was painted on the head of the bass drum
09) When shot at, the dove dove into the bushes.
10) I did not object to the object.
11) The insurance was invalid for the invalid.
12) There was a row among the oarsmen about how to row.
13) They were too close to the door to close it.
14) The buck does funny things when the does are present.
15) A seamstress and a sewer fell down into a sewer line.
16) To help with planting, the farmer taught his sow to sow.
17) The wind was too strong to wind the sail
18 After a number of injections my jaw got number.
19) Upon seeing the tear in the painting I shed a tear.
20) I had to subject the subject to a series of tests
21) How can I intimate this to my most intimate friend?



Looks like teacher is going to have to make some corrections here. Number 2 is incorrect english, it should either read The farm used to produce produce or the farm was used to producing produce, can't say it like it is currently written. Also number 18 is incorrect grammar and use of a word that does not exist in its context. The sentence should read After a number of injections my jaw got more numb! There is no such word as numb-er in the context of being more numb, you may say it in everyday life but its incorrect.

Bring me an apple tomorrow and I'll tell you some more :P

[Angela]

Sounds like you know this from experience...Any personal examples you'd care to share with us???


Maybe not on this family friendly forum.....;)

Reminds me of word that are "false friends" though...as a 15 year old, I remember sitting down to dinner with my friend's family in Paris. Her Mum asked me if I'd like a second helping and I replied that I was full...or so I thought.
Expressions of horror mixed with mirth on the assembled faces...I had inadvertently said "No, thank you, I am pregnant!" :o

[Raonaid]

Looks like teacher is going to have to make some corrections here. Number 2 is incorrect english, it should either read The farm used to produce produce or the farm was used to producing produce, can't say it like it is currently written. Also number 18 is incorrect grammar and use of a word that does not exist in its context. The sentence should read After a number of injections my jaw got more numb! There is no such word as numb-er in the context of being more numb, you may say it in everyday life but its incorrect.

Bring me an apple tomorrow and I'll tell you some more :P

Yeah, and he missed out a couple of brackets!