View Full Version : Drunks by the river
While walking home from school with my daughter this afternoon, we decided to walk along the river and cut up the path leading to Miller Avenue. When we got near the little stone building at the end of the path there was a man lying on the floor with an open bottle of cider next to him. My daughter got very scared as she thought he was dead, but as I have seen this drunk on numerous occasions, off his head and urinating in full view of anyone walking past, I thought he was maybe asleep. I was not about to go near him in case he woke up, but as he had his hands clasped across his stomach I think we can safely say he was fast asleep. I phoned the police when I got home to let them know. Am I the only one absolutely sick of the drunks sitting there, with their dogs, and bottles of cider. The place is an absolute state, and if you are walking down the path there is no way of avoiding them. I find them very intimidating and am actually too scared to walk down there by myself.
I have no idea what the building is for, but what needs to happen before anything is done about this. I can't understand why the council do not remove the benches, as no-one uses them apart from these drunks, they are covered in broken glass and seeped with urine, surely this is a public health hazard. I can't possibly be the only person who thinks this needs to be sorted.
While walking home from school with my daughter this afternoon, we decided to walk along the river and cut up the path leading to Miller Avenue. When we got near the little stone building at the end of the path there was a man lying on the floor with an open bottle of cider next to him. My daughter got very scared as she thought he was dead, but as I have seen this drunk on numerous occasions, off his head and urinating in full view of anyone walking past, I thought he was maybe asleep. I was not about to go near him in case he woke up, but as he had his hands clasped across his stomach I think we can safely say he was fast asleep. I phoned the police when I got home to let them know. Am I the only one absolutely sick of the drunks sitting there, with their dogs, and bottles of cider. The place is an absolute state, and if you are walking down the path there is no way of avoiding them. I find them very intimidating and am actually too scared to walk down there by myself.
I have no idea what the building is for, but what needs to happen before anything is done about this. I can't understand why the council do not remove the benches, as no-one uses them apart from these drunks, they are covered in broken glass and seeped with urine, surely this is a public health hazard. I can't possibly be the only person who thinks this needs to be sorted.it could be worse it could be you lying there drunk
vodka-queen
03-Oct-07, 23:36
Well for a start if its a place you would not go yourself why take your child down there???
j4bberw0ck
03-Oct-07, 23:53
it could be worse it could be you lying there drunk
Well for a start if its a place you would not go yourself why take your child down there???
Careful charley9, the intellectual giants are about again.
Botheed, you're apparently a religious person; where's you doctrine of forgiveness and understanding? What a senseless comment.
Vodka Queen......... hmm... <keeps thoughts to self on that one> why should a citizen feel there's a no-go zone for her and her daughter? Who has the right to make her feel that way? No one, in short.
luskentyre
04-Oct-07, 00:12
Careful charley9, the intellectual giants are about again.
Botheed, you're apparently a religious person; where's you doctrine of forgiveness and understanding? What a senseless comment.
Vodka Queen......... hmm... <keeps thoughts to self on that one> why should a citizen feel there's a no-go zone for her and her daughter? Who has the right to make her feel that way? No one, in short.
I totally agree. The person who started this thread was trying to express concern and raise awareness of a problem, and gets criticised for it. How very supportive...
hi. the place your talking about is the quoiting shed.thats where older guys used to play quoits.its a real pity cause the shed was a nice place
for familie,s with kids to sit about on the weekend,s.
The pathway is a public walkway by the riverside which leads to a bridge with a childrens play area on the other side. Almost every morning at least two alcoholics take up their stance on the bench at the quoiting shed, or at one of two benches near the childrens play area. They urinate quite openly with no care as to who sees them. On some occasions a few more of their boozing buddies join in and it can be intimidating to have to pass them.
Visitors to the caravan site and locals, enjoying what should be a pleasant walk, have to witness this.
I'm with you on this charley9, but I'm not sure what can be done about it.
evelyn
I too think its a disgace being so near to the caravan site with tourists passing and the play area where children are. I suppose these men have to go somewhere.
is public drunkeness not a crime?
and is it legal to drink in public? ie.. to have an open bottle of drink in public?
rockchick
04-Oct-07, 07:24
While I agree that it's not esthetically pleasing to see so vividly the effects of the "thrills" of alcoholism...these men aren't actually hurting anyone, are they? They're not violent, they've removed themselves to a quiet "corner" where the average person isn't going to come across them. They are doing far more harm to themselves than to anyone else.
If you take away the benches, they will just find another location...which won't likely have the benefit of remoteness from anyone's home or street. Wouldn't that be lovely, having them in the park at the bottom of the road?
Mr P Cannop
04-Oct-07, 07:47
While I agree that it's not esthetically pleasing to see so vividly the effects of the "thrills" of alcoholism...these men aren't actually hurting anyone, are they? They're not violent, they've removed themselves to a quiet "corner" where the average person isn't going to come across them. They are doing far more harm to themselves than to anyone else.
If you take away the benches, they will just find another location...which won't likely have the benefit of remoteness from anyone's home or street. Wouldn't that be lovely, having them in the park at the bottom of the road?
but they are still in a public area
northener
04-Oct-07, 08:23
I think a few people who have posted on this thread would soon change their attitude if these people chose to sit outside their houses.
Lolabelle
04-Oct-07, 08:47
I agree with Northener, I wouldn't like people lying around the park or reserve near my house, with the kids about. And I too find this kind of thing quite intimidating.
I'm with you too charley9 - we often walk along that way and I hate having to walk past there - they quite often shout abuse at me or my daughter - they've even shouted at me to give my daughter a slap once because she'd tripped and was crying. Apart from that little bit the rest of it is a lovely walk so I don't want to not go there just because of these drunks....
Why don't we just hang these misfits of society, how dare they sit beside the river passing their empty lives away whilst drinking from a bottle of white lightning, they should be locked up at the very least for intimidation, by presence in a public place.
As I have said before I used to live in Wick and I have experienced these people first hand.I remember going into what was then Presto's and taking my baby in with me and leaving my beautiful new pram outside, I came back to find that there was a group for drunks standing beside it and they had dumped their chips in my pram [disgust] I had to carry my baby home while pushing the pram and no matter how hard I tried I couldn't get the grease marks out of it!I don't have a problem with people who choose to fritter their lives away at the bottom of a bottle but I do have a problem with them when they decide to ruin peole's property and make people feel intimidated just because they are so drunk they don't care.Most of us can get drunk as a skunk but most of us wouldn't ruin property,urinate in the street etc so why should these people get away with it? x
cuddlepop
04-Oct-07, 09:55
Unfortunatly this is a problem no matter where you go,we too have a nature walk along a river that is frequently used as anything but a nature walk:mad:
You should not feel that any public walk way is a no go area.
Perhapse its time for a general community clear up of this walk way.We'd come up and I'm sure many other's would gladly see it back to its best.
As I said before we stayed at the campsite this summer and used the walk way to get to and back from the town.Although we saw no evidence of drunks parking themselves on the benchs there were plenty of "Big "teenagers using the play park for an entirely different purpose.[disgust]
Well for a start if its a place you would not go yourself why take your child down there???
why should my daughter have to walk all the way through town to go to the park that is at the end of the path, also, when she eventually goes to high school this will be the quickest way for her to get there, do you really think she is going to listen to me when I tell her not to.
I pay council tax and therefore should be able to walk along a public path without fear of beinbg intimidated. They sit there with their dogs, which they have actually told me before like to fight, after one of them chased our dog, who, incidentally, was on her lead at the time.
Fran "I suppose these men have to go somewhere." Why can't they sit at home and drink themselves to death. I have no problem with that at all.
I totally agree. The person who started this thread was trying to express concern and raise awareness of a problem, and gets criticised for it. How very supportive...
Aye, what is it with some people when they can only criticise people raising awareness. It was e same on my thread :mad:
Fran "I suppose these men have to go somewhere." Why can't they sit at home and drink themselves to death. I have no problem with that at all.
Charley9, I know most of those drunks, [through being brought up in the town] and believe me some of their wives wont tolerate them in the house while they are like that,& certainly not with their mates, so what happens is the alchy,s go to where they can amass their pennies together & buy whatever it is they drink.
And personally, i agree with you . The river walk is already an eyesore without their presence. It doe,nt promote much in the way of tourism for the town either.
Perhaps if one felt strongly about it & reported the matter to the police something would be done about it. And i dont see why they could,nt just have made their base a little further up the river, but then that would make it even more intimidating for females to pass .
this has been allowed to happen ever since years & years back.
vodka-queen
04-Oct-07, 11:20
just making a point like we all are plus aint i entitled to my opinion?
so your all telling me you would say i would not walk there myself yet you would take your child there with you!! thats all i am trying to say.
hey very soon they will have new street lighting all the way up to there drinking den , i have also noticed this past few days that they are now standing across the other side of the river near the play area , and sitting on the benches near the caravan park, must be kinda offputing for visitors if this is the first thing they see heading for the town down the riverside walk, surely they could be moved on ...
why should my daughter have to walk all the way through town to go to the park that is at the end of the path, also, when she eventually goes to high school this will be the quickest way for her to get there, do you really think she is going to listen to me when I tell her not to.
I pay council tax and therefore should be able to walk along a public path without fear of beinbg intimidated. They sit there with their dogs, which they have actually told me before like to fight, after one of them chased our dog, who, incidentally, was on her lead at the time.
Fran "I suppose these men have to go somewhere." Why can't they sit at home and drink themselves to death. I have no problem with that at all.
I know the drunks you refer to. I take my dog down that way almost daily, but have never had abuse shouted at me. On the contrary, these sad people generally say a polite 'hello' or make a favourable comment about the dog. some one said they had abuse shouted at them, i can only assume that there were others there that day. I think they are mostly harmless, and my main objection is the litter they leave, and I have even seen broken glass. If they remove the seats, which are also used by respectable elderly gentlemen out walking their dogs i might add, the undesirables will find a seat elsewhere. what horrified me most however, was one day seeing a couple of boys who couldn't have been more than twelve sitting there during school hours, passing a coke bottle between them. What else was in the coke, I asked myself. Of course it might have been perfectly innocent, but one wonders. Drunks have always used the riverside since i was a child, and I won't let on how old i am now!
Having said all that, I would be concerned allowing my child to go that way alone because you just never know, and that is not fair!
I notice in one of the posts that the culprits are moving closer to the carvan site. That may lead to some action by the authorities - they won't want the tourists upset - it don't matter about the locals.
cullbucket
05-Oct-07, 08:47
Why don't we just hang these misfits of society, how dare they sit beside the river passing their empty lives away whilst drinking from a bottle of white lightning, they should be locked up at the very least for intimidation, by presence in a public place.
I agree, alcoholism is an abomination, maybe they should learn from the the lad here in anchorage who recently set fire to a drunk homeless chap sleeping at a bus stop..... that would cut out all of those drunken shenanigans....
Mister Squiggle
05-Oct-07, 08:55
We walk along the Wick River path quite often to get to the children's playground on the other side. I've never had any hassle with the men sitting near the little concrete hut, but I do have an issue with the amount of broken glass and rubbish that seems to get left behind the shed near the Somerfield car park.
Last weekend it looked as if someone had upturned a crate of lager bottles and smashed the whole lot the length and breadth of the path, which makes it a real joy trying to get two little kids through it safely. There were plastic bags littering the bank and more bottles and glass strewn in the river. It looked pathetic - a beautiful morning, a peaceful river, birds wading and a half tonne of broken glass left by some moron(s).
I don't know who's responsible for the mess and I'm not pointing the finger at the men who were sitting further up minding their own business but anyone who can (by the looks of it) throw bottles against the building's wall to make sure the glass gets as far flung as possible, wants to be caught, shackled to a broom and a dustbin and told to get on with the cleaning.[evil]
rob murray
05-Oct-07, 14:03
Wow, some of you are really tolerable people, and its nice to know that the qouiting shed my late father built is being put to such great use as an outside toilet and drinking den. Ever heard of zero tolerance ! come down hard on so called minor misdemenours ( vandalism, pissing in the streets, general drunkeness etc ) generally creates a safer, cleaner and hence more respected environment. How to do this : create and enforce local by laws.
What is it about these guys that supposedly intimidates people, is it the fact they are youngish men, is it the clothes they wear or just the way they look in general? Looking intimidating, being dishevelled and suffering from alcoholism isn't a crime as of yet but if it was some old men drinking would you feel the same way as long as they were clean and wore the right clothes? Some people need to look at themselves and realize they are not so perfect that they can look down on certain people with disdain.
Tubthumper
05-Oct-07, 21:32
Sort of 'People who live in glass houses shouldn't piss in the street'?.
Sort of 'People who live in glass houses shouldn't piss in the street'?.Have you tried contacting the police about that but hey, It is not only the alcoholics that piss in the street, remember that.
however many of you are saying this is fine and harmless.. it is a crime.
public drunkness is against the law.
so why should we as law abiding citizens and tax payers (who by the way have to foot the bill for the millons in damages every year.. )put up with it?
it dosent matter wheter they are young or old.. male or female.. they are a public nusance. and oft times dangerous.
here are stats. i picked up off the web. they are harmless those poor poor drunks! right?
Facts, figures and statistics
Here, we've collected some interesting statistics about Scotland's drinking in relation to our licensing laws, drunken and criminal behaviour and the results of drink-driving.
Licensed sales
13,892 liquor licences were in force in 1980 compared with 17,048 by 2003 – a 23% rise.
The number of licences per head of population has increased from 37 per 10,000 in 1980 to 43 per 10,000 in 2003.
Source: Scottish Executive
Drink-driving
There were 11,782 drink-driving offences in Scotland in 2002. These included 820 drink-drive accidents, which resulted in 1,270 people being injured and 50 people being killed.
In 2002, of the 9,978 convictions for drunk driving in Scotland:
9,468 (95%) cases were disqualified from driving.
The average length of disqualification was 22 months.
8,537 (86%) cases resulted in a fine.
The average fine was £337.
411 cases (4%) resulted in a custodial sentence.
238 (2%) were admonished.
31 cases (0.3% of cases) resulted in a life ban from driving.
Source: Scottish Executive
Public Drunkenness
In 2003, there were 7,532 public drunkenness offences recorded by police forces in Scotland.
Violent crime
In 1999, one in eight violent incidents reported by respondents to the Scottish Crime Survey, occurred in or around pubs and clubs.
Almost two thirds (72%) of victims of assault, who could tell, thought the perpetrator was under the influence of alcohol.
Male offenders were more likely to be under the influence of alcohol (69%) than female (30%).
Alcohol was more likely to be a factor in muggings (88%) and crimes committed by strangers (88%) or acquaintances (82%) and less likely in domestic violence assaults (32%).
Alcohol was involved in the majority of domestic abuse incidents reported by respondents to the Scottish Crime Survey in 1999.
Source: Scottish Crime Survey 2000
Prison and probation
In Scotland, one in three prisoners believed alcohol was a factor in their incarceration
A third (32%) of prisoners agreed they wouldn't have been in prison if they hadn't been drinking.
39% of prisoners agreed that many of their crimes were committed while drunk.
34% agreed that alcohol was a problem for them outside prison.
29% of prisoners reported a history of violent behaviour relating to alcohol.
Source: 4th Prison Survey, Table A9
Footing the bill
It's estimated that dealing with the effects of alcohol costs the Criminal Justice System and the Emergency Services in Scotland £276.7 million a year.
What is it about these guys that supposedly intimidates people, is it the fact they are youngish men, is it the clothes they wear or just the way they look in general? Looking intimidating, being dishevelled and suffering from alcoholism isn't a crime as of yet but if it was some old men drinking would you feel the same way as long as they were clean and wore the right clothes? Some people need to look at themselves and realize they are not so perfect that they can look down on certain people with disdain.
I had no problem with any men sitting on a bench having a nice quiet drink, until there started being a group of five or more men, with their dogs off leads, making a mess and urinating in full view of anyone walking past.
We have spoke to the police about this problem, and they told us to phone them every time we see them drinking there, maybe if everyone did this it may solve the problem, I don't know. Maybe the new area commander should take a walk down there one day and see for himself the problem.
I don't understand why I am being criticised by some people, urinating in public is a crime, being drunk and disorderly in public is a crime, if I had said I had seen junkies at the quoiting shed injecting drugs, I doubt anyone would have been defending them.
I had no problem with any men sitting on a bench having a nice quiet drink, until there started being a group of five or more men, with their dogs off leads, making a mess and urinating in full view of anyone walking past.
We have spoke to the police about this problem, and they told us to phone them every time we see them drinking there, maybe if everyone did this it may solve the problem, I don't know. Maybe the new area commander should take a walk down there one day and see for himself the problem.
I don't understand why I am being criticised by some people, urinating in public is a crime, being drunk and disorderly in public is a crime, if I had said I had seen junkies at the quoiting shed injecting drugs, I doubt anyone would have been defending them.Were they disorderly, lot's of people have their dogs off leads?
Urinating in public is a crime yes, lot's of so called normal people do it on their way home from the pubs and clubs, they just find someones alleyway to do it in
northener
05-Oct-07, 22:16
TBH, seeing as you are so keen to defend these guys, no doubt you'd be happy to invite these people round to your house to sit on your doorstep then?
Do I detect a hint of nimbyism here?
TBH, seeing as you are so keen to defend these guys, no doubt you'd be happy to invite these people round to your house to sit on your doorstep then?
Do I detect a hint of nimbyism here?Nimbyism yes, but not from me.
Why would I want them drinking on my doorstep, Mm, is the riverside someones doorstep?
northener
05-Oct-07, 22:48
Point being, TBH, that there is acceptable and unacceptable behaviour in public places.
The fact that they are in an area that is not frequented by lots of people doesn't make that much difference. How would you feel if your mum decided to go for a walk and ended up negotiating a path past these guys? If anything, people would feel more intimidated by these men because they are in a quieter area. - No-one to see what's going on, is there?
Statisticians tell us that the publics' fear of violence is a lot greater than the actual risk. Doesn't make you feel secure knowing that, unfortunately, when it's you that is feeling the fear!
Sitting on a bench, quietly boozing away is no problem. Unfortunately, a couple of these guys are not quiet, they can be agressive and can be extremely unpleasant. Recent developments with one of their chums threatening a young girl ought to be enough to prove my point. Oh, and threatening all and sundry in the middle of town, vomiting all over people waiting at the bus shelter by Somerfields etc etc etc.
If you need any more convincing about these people TBH, I suggest you look through the back-copies of the John O'Groat Journal.
Like I said, quietly drinking is one thing, this is another.
j4bberw0ck
05-Oct-07, 22:52
What is it about these guys that supposedly intimidates people, is it the fact they are youngish men, is it the clothes they wear or just the way they look in general? Looking intimidating, being dishevelled and suffering from alcoholism isn't a crime as of yet
Completely irrelevant. In fact, completely wrong. Looking intimidating may indeed be a crime. It's called "assault". Just depends on the circumstances.
Completely irrelevant. In fact, completely wrong. Looking intimidating may indeed be a crime. It's called "assault". Just depends on the circumstances.What you talking about willis? Someone who looks intimidating is committing assault?:roll:
Point being, TBH, that there is acceptable and unacceptable behaviour in public places.
The fact that they are in an area that is not frequented by lots of people doesn't make that much difference. How would you feel if your mum decided to go for a walk and ended up negotiating a path past these guys? If anything, people would feel more intimidated by these men because they are in a quieter area. - No-one to see what's going on, is there?
Statisticians tell us that the publics' fear of violence is a lot greater than the actual risk. Doesn't make you feel secure knowing that, unfortunately, when it's you that is feeling the fear!
Sitting on a bench, quietly boozing away is no problem. Unfortunately, a couple of these guys are not quiet, they can be agressive and can be extremely unpleasant. Recent developments with one of their chums threatening a young girl ought to be enough to prove my point. Oh, and threatening all and sundry in the middle of town, vomiting all over people waiting at the bus shelter by Somerfields etc etc etc.
If you need any more convincing about these people TBH, I suggest you look through the back-copies of the John O'Groat Journal.
Like I said, quietly drinking is one thing, this is another.Well maybe the first post in the thread could have made it a bit clearer as to what the exact problem was.
j4bberw0ck
05-Oct-07, 23:09
What you talking about willis? Someone who looks intimidating is committing assault?:roll:
Depending on circumstances, yes. Assault requires no physical contact at all. If there's contact, it's called "battery". If there's intimidation and contact it's called "assault and battery". And so on, Willis. Whoever he might be.
Well maybe the first post in the thread could have made it a bit clearer as to what the exact problem was.
Maybe you might have asked the question? Being an understanding and empathic sort of a chap an' all........:lol:
Careful charley9, the intellectual giants are about again.
Botheed, you're apparently a religious person; where's you doctrine of forgiveness and understanding? What a senseless comment.
Vodka Queen......... hmm... <keeps thoughts to self on that one> why should a citizen feel there's a no-go zone for her and her daughter? Who has the right to make her feel that way? No one, in short.i was once one of these folkes by the river drunk.what i am saying is not to take the high ground it could be u next.:eek:
Depending on circumstances, yes. Assault requires no physical contact at all. If there's contact, it's called "battery". If there's intimidation and contact it's called "assault and battery". And so on, Willis. Whoever he might be.
Maybe you might have asked the question? Being an understanding and empathic sort of a chap an' all........:lol:Someone that looks intimidating is not committing a crime so that kind of kicks that supposition into touch.
Why would I ask the question, the poster made no reference to the reasons that northerner gave so her post was taken as it was written?......:lol:
j4bberw0ck
05-Oct-07, 23:20
If you're an alcoholic, Botheed, and managed to get out, you have my most profound apology and admiration. But the point about forgiveness and understanding?
northener
05-Oct-07, 23:27
i was once one of these folkes by the river drunk.what i am saying is not to take the high ground it could be u next.:eek:
Just to clarify a point Botheed. Personally I don't look down on anyone. Social status means nothing to me, it could be a ned on smack or the Pope. If they're straight, i'll be straight with them.
If someone shows a blatant disregard for those around them and refuses to act in a reasonable manner, I'll treat them with the contempt they deserve.
j4bberw0ck
05-Oct-07, 23:27
Someone that looks intimidating is not committing a crime so that kind of kicks that supposition into touch.
As I said, it depends on the circumstances. If you put someone in physical fear for their safety, that can be enough for a charge of assault. Unless Boozeburglar QC wanders along and says I'm wrong, in which case I'll defer to his greater knowledge without question.
Whether you'd ever get the police to pursue it is another matter entirely - unless of course they happened to be targeted with solving crimes of assault that week........ :lol:
[quote=j4bberw0ck;279367]If you're an alcoholic, Botheed, and managed to get out, you have my most profound apology and admiration. But the point about forgiveness and understanding?[/quote fair point, it was not my intention to be ungracious towards the poster or anyone. i do apologize.
I had no problem with any men sitting on a bench having a nice quiet drink, until there started being a group of five or more men, with their dogs off leads, making a mess and urinating in full view of anyone walking past.
We have spoke to the police about this problem, and they told us to phone them every time we see them drinking there, maybe if everyone did this it may solve the problem, I don't know. Maybe the new area commander should take a walk down there one day and see for himself the problem.
I don't understand why I am being criticised by some people, urinating in public is a crime, being drunk and disorderly in public is a crime, if I had said I had seen junkies at the quoiting shed injecting drugs, I doubt anyone would have been defending them.
hi charley9
I walk down past the area you are referring to most days & like Katarina & a few others here I have never witnessed any intimidation from anyone seated at the Quoiting Shed.
You are quite right to report these things to the local Police if you are concerned about them & I, for one, would never criticise you for this. I am puzzled by your last sentence/paragraph, however. I'd be grateful if you could clarify what you mean here. Thanks.
Personally, I think that those guys being there is better than them hanging around benches in the middle of town or in the Bignold Park, as I have seen in the past. They are relatively out of the way and I know of one old man who preferred that they went drinking up the river because he was a neighbour of one of the "regulars" and found that they made a lot of noise when they were drinking in that guy's house.
OK, urinating in public is unsightly but there are a lot worse crimes. Part of the problem for these guys is that they are open about what they are doing. For long enough Britain had a culture of drinking going on behind closed doors, through frosted windows etc. I am sure just as many, probably a lot more aerosols emerge from said premises showing anti-social behaviour, including intimidating other people and voiding urine as casually as a cowboy waters his horse. How many of our teenagers are popping pills, downing alcopops and, later in the evening, spending time marinading in their own pavement pizzas? And that's just the lassies!!
Of course, they do their supping behind closed doors and pop their pills in the lavvy of the local. All very considerate of them so that we perceive no problem.
Hi Scorrie
With respect, I would suggest that charley9 & your goodself are viewing a set of circumstances from a slightly different angle.
Charley9 feels intimidated & unsafe while walking past these guys with her daughter & you think it is ok that they've made the riverbank their home (drinking den).
As for your statement that "urinating in public is unsightly but there are a lot worse crimes" - in the context of this thread I would disagree with that statement.
Whitewater
06-Oct-07, 00:37
Read all your posts on this. I pass no comment on who said what, we all have our own opinions.
Drinking in puplic is an offence, I'm sure that if Wicks finest were to patrol that area 2 or 3 times a day we would see a difference.
I sometimes walk my daughters dog up the river, both sides. These guys are on the go from just after 9am, all with their plastic bags stuffed with cans of super lager or bottles of White Lightning, depending on how close it is to giro day.
It makes no difference whether they are drinking up the river or on the street, it is an offence. Obviously, if drunk or drinking on the street, they will be caught. Up the river they can blow their minds, and sleep it off. They don't give a toss for you or me or any member of the public. Just a pity we do not have a regular police patrol in the area. They are there because they know they are safe from arrest.
They are a nuisance, to young children and even adults, they are quite frightning sometimes when there are several of them about fighting over the last tinnie.
The area is a recognised walk, and there are picnic tables around for members of the puplic to enjoy themselves. These guys are the dregs of society, been chucked out of every pub in the town, probably their homes as well and they just don't give a damn. I have no time for them.
Probably some of you may think I'm being harsh, yes perhaps I am. I've been around on this earth a long time now, I have known many alcholics, some of them managed to stop drinking, others unfortunately did not and are in their graves now. But not one of them would have ever been seen up the river drinking, no matter how bad they were.
You may think that is a double standard, perhaps in someways it is, but the guys you see up the river were always wasters,and never did give a hoot for you, me, or anybody, and they never will.
You may not like my opinion on this, but that is it. I have no sympathy for them, they are a blight on this town.
Read all your posts on this. I pass no comment on who said what, we all have our own opinions.
Drinking in puplic is an offence, I'm sure that if Wicks finest were to patrol that area 2 or 3 times a day we would see a difference.
I sometimes walk my daughters dog up the river, both sides. These guys are on the go from just after 9am, all with their plastic bags stuffed with cans of super lager or bottles of White Lightning, depending on how close it is to giro day.
It makes no difference whether they are drinking up the river or on the street, it is an offence. Obviously, if drunk or drinking on the street, they will be caught. Up the river they can blow their minds, and sleep it off. They don't give a toss for you or me or any member of the public. Just a pity we do not have a regular police patrol in the area. They are there because they know they are safe from arrest.
They are a nuisance, to young children and even adults, they are quite frightning sometimes when there are several of them about fighting over the last tinnie.
The area is a recognised walk, and there are picnic tables around for members of the puplic to enjoy themselves. These guys are the dregs of society, been chucked out of every pub in the town, probably their homes as well and they just don't give a damn. I have no time for them.
Probably some of you may think I'm being harsh, yes perhaps I am. I've been around on this earth a long time now, I have known many alcholics, some of them managed to stop drinking, others unfortunately did not and are in their graves now. But not one of them would have ever been seen up the river drinking, no matter how bad they were.
You may think that is a double standard, perhaps in someways it is, but the guys you see up the river were always wasters,and never did give a hoot for you, me, or anybody, and they never will.
You may not like my opinion on this, but that is it. I have no sympathy for them, they are a blight on this town.
Like you whitewater, I have considerable experience of drunks (although I'm not (and never was) one). Where I moved from partly because I began to fear for the safety of my Jack Russell, and eventually for myself because I made it known that I did not approve of public drunkenness from 8 am to 2m on the public bench (outside my bedroom window) it was a major nuisance, and made myself and many others felt quite unsafe in our own homes and "neighbourhoods" (which is a concept which bears some examination in its own right).
The area was really rather upmarket but since I have moved away, I've heard that many of my former neighbours have also had enough and sold up and/ or moved away. The worst offender was an evil young lad with an extremely dangerous and violent bull mastiff that was in the habit of killing other (male) dogs. Unfortunately I observed that he made the local Neighbourhood Police Liason lassie or whatever their uniformed civilian title was go weak at the knees every time he smiled sweetly at her, so the authorities took her opinion that 'he's lovely, just misunderstood' over that of the people who actually lived there and kept submitting ignored formal complaint after ignored formal complaint, even via the local MP. I gave up in the end. You can only bash your head against the brick wall for so long trying to get somebody to do something about it.
I imagine that the house values in the area have dropped by now, the area is probably covered in discarded cans and bottles, those in the know probably avoid the area and those that cannot escape are probably stressed out and trying to figure out a way to move home.
All because a few drunks, who don't give a monkeys about anybody else. 'We' and the Government complain about the troublesome elements within society that destroy the quality of life for everyone else but at what point does anyone do anything ? And what happens to anyone who is proactive in complaining ? And what good do complaints do ?
Unless laws are reasonable and are enforced, why bother having laws at all ???
I'm all for being patient and understanding of those who are having difficulty in life, but as the saying goes 'it only takes one bad apple....'. Two or three drunken louts can destroy a neighbourhood, without even trying, or even being aware of that fact. There is a time and place for all things.
Welcomefamily
06-Oct-07, 07:08
I don't now why they just don't ban white lighting and those other medium chemical ciders, (not traditional ciders) its got to be local shops or supermarkets selling it, it causes problems most places except the south west where they have worst available.
northener
06-Oct-07, 09:01
Personally, I think that those guys being there is better than them hanging around benches in the middle of town or in the Bignold Park, as I have seen in the past. They are relatively out of the way and I know of one old man who preferred that they went drinking up the river because he was a neighbour of one of the "regulars" and found that they made a lot of noise when they were drinking in that guy's house.
I understand what you are saying here, Scorrie.
But, at the risk of going round in circles, I'd like to point out that they are still in a public place, in an area frequented by people who should not have to tolerate anti-social behaviour.
I wouldn't want to inflict these people on anybody as neighbours. That doesn't mean that they should be allowed to hang around public footpaths/parks etc to the detriment of the general public.
I'm all for helping those who are struggling to cope with a problem but this doesn't give anybody the 'right' to inflict their misfortunes on anyone else.
These guys are NOT a goup of men having a quiet drink, out of the way.
I'll go back to a point I made earlier. - If anyone thinks it's OK for these people to behave in the way they do, then allow them to sit outside your house, or on a quiet footpath frequented by members of your family.
Then, in a couple of months time, we can re-visit this subject and ensure that everyone still has the same opinion.
dunderheed
06-Oct-07, 13:24
"Drinking in puplic is an offence" this statement is not true as yet caithness has not passed the local bye-law to enforce this as the councill would not create consessions for galal weeks/new year street parties etc.
although i personally dont get intimidated by anyone and feel that if these people are living within their means and not turning to crime to fund their illness , because thats what it is people an illness, let them alone, be pleasant to them and 99 times out of 100 , they will be pleasant back . as a cheif constable from northern constabulary was quoted as saying last week "if alcohol was invented today it would undoubtedly be banned".
so your saying that even though under scottish law it is an offence.. its not in caithness?
dunderheed
06-Oct-07, 16:19
its like the smoking ban in england it has to be ratified at local councill level, drinking in the street is not illegall in scotland but being drunk and incapable is or drunk and disorderly
Hi Scorrie
With respect, I would suggest that charley9 & your goodself are viewing a set of circumstances from a slightly different angle.
Charley9 feels intimidated & unsafe while walking past these guys with her daughter & you think it is ok that they've made the riverbank their home (drinking den).
As for your statement that "urinating in public is unsightly but there are a lot worse crimes" - in the context of this thread I would disagree with that statement.
I have had quite a bit of experience dealing with drunk people. Most of the time I found that mutual respect was the way forward. As individuals, we all have different thresholds on what we deem to be acceptable behaviour. If one person feels intimidated by a situation that another finds to be acceptable (although not necessarily ideal) then who is taking the correct attitude of the two?
I am fairly sure that Police need something more specific to act on than someone simply saying they feel intimidated. There has to have been an offence of some sort committed and if there has been, then the person involved should be reported.
As far as your second point goes, I was simply stating that there could be worse places for these guys to be camped. If they were near a Primary School, for instance, it would, for me at least, be far more of a concern.
Finally, I stand 100% behind my statement that there are worse crimes than urinating in Public. In my mind it has to be way less serious than if the drinkers concerned were committing assault or stealing from the people who are offended by the sight of someone doing something we all do every day.
It is, of course, your right to disagree.
I understand what you are saying here, Scorrie.
But, at the risk of going round in circles, I'd like to point out that they are still in a public place, in an area frequented by people who should not have to tolerate anti-social behaviour.
I wouldn't want to inflict these people on anybody as neighbours. That doesn't mean that they should be allowed to hang around public footpaths/parks etc to the detriment of the general public.
I'm all for helping those who are struggling to cope with a problem but this doesn't give anybody the 'right' to inflict their misfortunes on anyone else.
These guys are NOT a goup of men having a quiet drink, out of the way.
I'll go back to a point I made earlier. - If anyone thinks it's OK for these people to behave in the way they do, then allow them to sit outside your house, or on a quiet footpath frequented by members of your family.
Then, in a couple of months time, we can re-visit this subject and ensure that everyone still has the same opinion.
There are actually a few heavy drinkers in the street where I live. You see them blootered in broad daylight, often first thing in the morning. They can be seen toting bottles of White Star, tins of Special Vat etc. There can be a bit of roaring and bawling of an evening but they have never bothered me personally, the squabbles tend to be amongst themselves.
These people have to live somewhere and if they are going to drink they have to do that somewhere too. I just put the point forward, that if YOU were their neighbour, would you rather that they made a noise half way up the river, or would you be happier that they did it right through the wall?
Zero Tolerance is a good idea in theory but how hard is it going to be to Police every small offence? Then there is the question of cost. How much extra tax would you be willing to pay to make our streets cleaner by driving the drunks underground? That is not really solving the problem anyway, it is simply moving it along. These people would end up somewhere else, bothering someone else. How long would it be before people started complaining that you couldn't get a Bobby because they were nabbing winos for turning wine into water up the river?
It really is almost impossible for drinkers NOT to be in a Public Place at some time or another. Where should we put them so that we can assure that nobody is affected by them?
Just to clarify a point Botheed. Personally I don't look down on anyone. Social status means nothing to me, it could be a ned on smack or the Pope. If they're straight, i'll be straight with them.
If someone shows a blatant disregard for those around them and refuses to act in a reasonable manner, I'll treat them with the contempt they deserve.contempt i dont do, can i just say that these folkes and myself were not born on the river bank but anyone can end up there. pope included because the booze has no respect for anyone from the social status that u speak of. it is illegal to drink in public places, and it is sad that some folkes feel afraid of the riverbank drinker. but it is an unsocial behaviour maybe even a modern day lepor but the choice is up to the individual do you treat them with contempt or with compassion?
northener
06-Oct-07, 18:39
There can be a bit of roaring and bawling of an evening but they have never bothered me personally, the squabbles tend to be amongst themselves.
So what you are saying is, that because their disorderly behaviour does not bother you personally, everyone else should just put up with it?
northener
06-Oct-07, 19:00
contempt i dont do, can i just say that these folkes and myself were not born on the river bank but anyone can end up there. pope included because the booze has no respect for anyone from the social status that u speak of. it is illegal to drink in public places, and it is sad that some folkes feel afraid of the riverbank drinker. but it is an unsocial behaviour maybe even a modern day lepor but the choice is up to the individual do you treat them with contempt or with compassion?
Botheed, you've been somewhere that it's too easy to go. I'm sure your experiences were not pleasant , to say the least.
The point I am making is that there are many people whose lives revolve around the next drink. There are many people who drink in public. Do it quietly and I have no issue with poeples lives whatsover.
I DO however have a big problem with anyone who refuses to make an effort to show at least some token of reasonable behaviour. There are too many people prepared to make excuses for these people when they are roaring at each other/ cars/whatever and making choice comments about people passing by.
My wife was hassled by one of these pieces of filth whilst she was waiting for a bus in Wick. She's 5 foot tall and weighs 7 stone. Nobody, repeat NOBODY paid any attention to her plight whatsover.
She had to stop me from going down town and beating this cretin to a pulp there and then. On reflection, yes I should have reported it to the Police. But by Christ, I'd have enjoyed putting it in hospital a damn sight more.
So I'm not interested in some of the apologist nimby claptrap that's been posted on here. If it was a member of YOUR family in that situation, how would you feel?
Some of the comments on here are naive in the extreme, if a heroin addict nicked these peoples' DVD player they'd be howling for their blood. Yet - apparently - threats, intimidation, foul language et al, are all acceptable.
That's my last post on this subject, because I'm getting rather angry now[mad]
Margaret M.
06-Oct-07, 19:37
It really is almost impossible for drinkers NOT to be in a Public Place at some time or another. Where should we put them so that we can assure that nobody is affected by them?
I'm envisioning a Rehab Center in Victoria Square. Where's Andrew C. when we need him? :)
The Pepsi Challenge
07-Oct-07, 04:16
These people are scum. They should be replaced by post boxes.
Welcomefamily
07-Oct-07, 09:56
At the end of the day they are resposible for their actions, let not forget how off drink is used as an excuse, a sure way to a lighter sentence.
Botheed, you've been somewhere that it's too easy to go. I'm sure your experiences were not pleasant , to say the least.
The point I am making is that there are many people whose lives revolve around the next drink. There are many people who drink in public. Do it quietly and I have no issue with poeples lives whatsover.
I DO however have a big problem with anyone who refuses to make an effort to show at least some token of reasonable behaviour. There are too many people prepared to make excuses for these people when they are roaring at each other/ cars/whatever and making choice comments about people passing by.
My wife was hassled by one of these pieces of filth whilst she was waiting for a bus in Wick. She's 5 foot tall and weighs 7 stone. Nobody, repeat NOBODY paid any attention to her plight whatsover.
She had to stop me from going down town and beating this cretin to a pulp there and then. On reflection, yes I should have reported it to the Police. But by Christ, I'd have enjoyed putting it in hospital a damn sight more.
So I'm not interested in some of the apologist nimby claptrap that's been posted on here. If it was a member of YOUR family in that situation, how would you feel?
Some of the comments on here are naive in the extreme, if a heroin addict nicked these peoples' DVD player they'd be howling for their blood. Yet - apparently - threats, intimidation, foul language et al, are all acceptable.
That's my last post on this subject, because I'm getting rather angry now[mad]the behaviour u speak of is wrong and i agree with u.i often wonder is some of the river drinkerswould be a problem no matter what place they are in, for the simple reason that it is not booze that is the problem but some other thing[trouble makeing]not all who drink too much are alcoholics.
cuddlepop
07-Oct-07, 10:23
the behaviour u speak of is wrong and i agree with u.i often wonder is some of the river drinkerswould be a problem no matter what place they are in, for the simple reason that it is not booze that is the problem but some other thing[trouble makeing]not all who drink too much are alcoholics.
Yes Botheed sometimes we're to quick to blame the substance misuse,regardless of what it is.
Sometimes the person would be like that under any circumstances.:~(
I agree that they shouldnt be in a PUBLIC place doing this.After all the word PUBLIC means for all, but they have taken this place over.
I like many others enjoy a good dram but I do it in my own house or down the pub,I dont hang around Public areas exposing myself and urinating in public.
The comments I read about them being better their than in their own street doesnt wash with me.If they are in their own house thats their business, if they are in a public place thats OUR business end of.
The police are quick enough to arrest younger people who have had a few but very rarely arrest these men, Why?? after all arent they the Police's neighbours as they are just across the road?
My Final comment on the matter is that every mans home is HIS castle but a public place is meant to be for all and should be enjoyed safely by all.
I agree that they shouldnt be in a PUBLIC place doing this.After all the word PUBLIC means for all, but they have taken this place over.
I like many others enjoy a good dram but I do it in my own house or down the pub,I dont hang around Public areas exposing myself and urinating in public.
The comments I read about them being better their than in their own street doesnt wash with me.If they are in their own house thats their business, if they are in a public place thats OUR business end of.
The police are quick enough to arrest younger people who have had a few but very rarely arrest these men, Why?? after all arent they the Police's neighbours as they are just across the road?
My Final comment on the matter is that every mans home is HIS castle but a public place is meant to be for all and should be enjoyed safely by all.
Cant help but agree with you on that, but on the few occasions that i have passed the quoiting shed the regular,s usually just wish me a hello. there are a few newer members that seem a bit unsaviory to say the least , they dont bother me either but then im a fairly well built sober male ,not a female with kids. As i say the founder members of this club are reasonably well behaved. But on saying that i think that they should have a rethink on their drinking location cause by what,s been said here on this forum i guess that some action against them is imminent. And the area should be made safe for ALL to enjoy.
So what you are saying is, that because their disorderly behaviour does not bother you personally, everyone else should just put up with it?
Err, no, I am not saying that. I am saying that some people need to get a sense of perspective and a bit of a thicker skin. I could just as easily lift the phone to the Police every time my senses were offended. I believe that a little bit of tolerance goes a long way in this life.
I agree that they shouldnt be in a PUBLIC place doing this.After all the word PUBLIC means for all, but they have taken this place over.
I like many others enjoy a good dram but I do it in my own house or down the pub,I dont hang around Public areas exposing myself and urinating in public.
The comments I read about them being better their than in their own street doesnt wash with me.If they are in their own house thats their business, if they are in a public place thats OUR business end of.
The police are quick enough to arrest younger people who have had a few but very rarely arrest these men, Why?? after all arent they the Police's neighbours as they are just across the road?
My Final comment on the matter is that every mans home is HIS castle but a public place is meant to be for all and should be enjoyed safely by all.
If PUBLIC means "For All" then why are these guys NOT allowed to be in Public? If they are breaking the law, then report them. You cannot just arrest people because they look, as Johno said "Unsavoury"
If one of those guys lived next to YOU, would you prefer that they had a houseful of their mates making a racket or would you rather them conducting their "business" in a relatively less populated area?
The reason that these guys are NOT arrested very much is probably because there is very little serious crime taking place.
Nobody has managed to tell me how much extra tax they would be willing to pay to fund a Zero Tolerance approach to the most low level crime.
Yes Botheed sometimes we're to quick to blame the substance misuse,regardless of what it is.
Sometimes the person would be like that under any circumstances.:~(
I can't agree at all with this thinking cuddlepop. Alcohol is a powerful drug, if you had watched the people I have watched going through "Cold Turkey" and seen the effect it had on their bodies, you would realise what a grip it can have on a person. I have seen ordinary people, as well as those one might call "worthless" lose their battle with the bottle. I knew a man who had a highly responsible job, a lovely family and everything going for him. He was also a talented musician and great company, witty and easy-going. For whatever reason, he took to the drink and, within a few years had lost everything, including his life.
Alcohol is a huge problem in this country, it results in the most heinous of crimes being committed, crimes that highly probably would not have happened in sobriety. The Riverside Brigade are the very visible tip of the Alcohol Iceberg, they are easy to label as lowlife, scum, wasters etc etc
I spent about 10 years interacting with a generation of these guys, on an almost daily basis. They were customers in the betting office I managed. Invariably drunk, they were rarely any problem and behind the drunken lifestyle there was often sadness to be seen. One guy, for example, had worked as a miner all his life, had fought for his country in Korea and lived a normal life until a back injury ended his working life and alcohol popped up to fill the void.
You are correct in saying that people can be bad people without the need for alcohol but never underestimate the hold that alcohol can take on a person and the situations that it can lead them into.
mandy&baz
07-Oct-07, 15:51
it must have been the street fighter a.k.a da stweet fighta!! hes the lad!!
One of these days Scorrie me and you will agree on something!!!!!
Till that day keep up the good work!!!
I enjoy a challenge :)
it must have been the street fighter a.k.a da stweet fighta!! hes the lad!!
yep he,s there sometimes.
Nobody is worthless, nobody is worth more than anybody else, people that think they are better than everybody else and look down on those less fortunate than themselves make me want to puke.
If any of these men commit a crime then report it to the police but don't tar them all with the same brush as some of them are very decent human beings that wouldn't do you a bad turn, they have just got a problem with alcohol, that is all.
I can't agree at all with this thinking cuddlepop. Alcohol is a powerful drug, if you had watched the people I have watched going through "Cold Turkey" and seen the effect it had on their bodies, you would realise what a grip it can have on a person. I have seen ordinary people, as well as those one might call "worthless" lose their battle with the bottle. I knew a man who had a highly responsible job, a lovely family and everything going for him. He was also a talented musician and great company, witty and easy-going. For whatever reason, he took to the drink and, within a few years had lost everything, including his life.
Alcohol is a huge problem in this country, it results in the most heinous of crimes being committed, crimes that highly probably would not have happened in sobriety. The Riverside Brigade are the very visible tip of the Alcohol Iceberg, they are easy to label as lowlife, scum, wasters etc etc
I spent about 10 years interacting with a generation of these guys, on an almost daily basis. They were customers in the betting office I managed. Invariably drunk, they were rarely any problem and behind the drunken lifestyle there was often sadness to be seen. One guy, for example, had worked as a miner all his life, had fought for his country in Korea and lived a normal life until a back injury ended his working life and alcohol popped up to fill the void.
You are correct in saying that people can be bad people without the need for alcohol but never underestimate the hold that alcohol can take on a person and the situations that it can lead them into.
Thats all very well and true but untill these people actually want to be helped what can anyone do. botheed says he was one of them but he has now put his life back in order , and good for him to have the willpower to do that. i commend him for that ,as very few manage it. but untill they actually take it by the horns and go the distance no one can help them but themselves,
Ah well the bobbies must read the org. They were up there this morning in their 4X4 when we were out with the dog, but none of the drunks were there, just a harmless owld mannie and he didna even have a carryout :roll:
Ah, maybe the syndicate has also read the org & the venue has been changed already.???:cool:
Ps, to the back of the police station, the cop,s might never think of looking under their noses . heh heh ?
Ha ha Johno, did you not see them with their laptops last time you passed ;)
One of these days Scorrie me and you will agree on something!!!!!
Till that day keep up the good work!!!
I enjoy a challenge :)
I suspect that you are blinkered against everything I say. In any case, I managed to make you post again when you said you were done with the thread. Number two, you did not answer any of the questions I asked. A sure sign, that, once again, I have proved my points.
Thats all very well and true but untill these people actually want to be helped what can anyone do. botheed says he was one of them but he has now put his life back in order , and good for him to have the willpower to do that. i commend him for that ,as very few manage it. but untill they actually take it by the horns and go the distance no one can help them but themselves,
Well Johno, have you ever thought that, while we label these people as useless scum, they are unlikely to have much incentive to better themselves. It is far easier to make judgement calls from the high ground, than it is from the gutter. How many of these people look at themselves, then look at the way people judge them to be, and feel that they are outsiders who will never have the approval of the "better" people of this world? Meanwhile, said "better" people are pamping three bottles of the 3 for £10 wines into their trolley and retiring to their kips with a warm, hazy glow and a feeling of righteousness!!
mmh...at is a difficult one. because half o us da see them awie up ayre, it disna bother us, they'r weel oot e'wie.
they're probly awie up ayre, cos they been chissed awie fie ivry far else!!
it widna bother me walkin past them but ye can see how it wid intimidate young lascies walkin past them on their way til e school.
but far else do they go?? ye can see how they want til get ootside, bit o fresh air, they probly been in drinkin all nite :roll:
they are a part o wur community, i guess we just hev til accept them. it disna metter far they go, there wil always be someone who is intimidated or no lekin til go past at area. such as life. i guess ye just hev til get over things at - heids doon an ignore them, walk fast.
i think they're prity harmless. i gie them a friendly hello, good mornin, or a smile, an grateful that its no me or any o mine...
oldmarine
08-Oct-07, 00:55
why should my daughter have to walk all the way through town to go to the park that is at the end of the path, also, when she eventually goes to high school this will be the quickest way for her to get there, do you really think she is going to listen to me when I tell her not to.
I pay council tax and therefore should be able to walk along a public path without fear of beinbg intimidated. They sit there with their dogs, which they have actually told me before like to fight, after one of them chased our dog, who, incidentally, was on her lead at the time.
Fran "I suppose these men have to go somewhere." Why can't they sit at home and drink themselves to death. I have no problem with that at all.
I agree with Charley on this one. The last time I was in that area the drunks stayed around the taverns. That's where I used to see them fighting one another. In the parks where children play is not a good place for drunks to hang out. Seems to me that something could be done about this for correction.
In the parks where children play is not a good place for drunks to hang out. Seems to me that something could be done about this for correction.
but half way up e river at half 8 in e mornin isna really far bairns hang oot.
i can see both sides o it tho but everybody is different an ye cana tell people far they can an cana go just because ye da lek their standard o life.
if they are causin a disturbance an upsettin people then they should be moved on aye, but i cana believe they are causin a disturbance all e time.
i pass by a group o drunks as early as half 7 on ma way til work every weekend an iv never seen a scuffle or heard a raised voice, then maybe e pultney alckeys are just better behaved then e weik ones :lol:
In reply to Scorrie, nowhere have i said that they were useless scum.
Many of those people are known to me, and i can recall several of them working in good paying jobs. What i did say however was that no one but themselves can make them give up. All they have to do is grab it. But they really must have the need within themselves. I worked in a place that dealt with alcoholics and believe me their need for drink is almost overpowering.
I,ve seen men coming in that were drinking brasso, brake fluid or antifreeze.
Actually i pity the people affected by alcoholism. they wer,nt always useless scum as some might call them. :~(
In reply to Scorrie, nowhere have i said that they were useless scum.
Many of those people are known to me, and i can recall several of them working in good paying jobs. What i did say however was that no one but themselves can make them give up. All they have to do is grab it. But they really must have the need within themselves. I worked in a place that dealt with alcoholics and believe me their need for drink is almost overpowering.
I,ve seen men coming in that were drinking brasso, brake fluid or antifreeze.
Actually i pity the people affected by alcoholism. they wer,nt always useless scum as some might call them. :~(
Come on now johno. I said:- "while we label these people as useless scum"
That is clearly "we" and NOT you personally.
The point I was making was that OUR attitude can leave these people with very little self-esteem and little motivation to mend their ways. I spoke to one of the younger riverside guys several years ago and asked him if he had ever considered trying to give up alcohol. His reply was that his reputation in the town couldn't get any lower than it was, so what was the point?
Aye ,well pointed out Scorrie. but it,s true they can only be helped by helping themselves, it is a hard struggle & only a few achieve it.
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