View Full Version : 500 Muslim radicals to be deported
champagnebaby
07-Aug-05, 17:17
FIVE hundred radical Muslim extremists are to be deported by the government
http://www.newsoftheworld.co.uk/story_pages/news/news2.shtml
Who think's this is a good idea?
I know it's from the news of the world so has to be taken with a pinch of salt but i think it's the action that's needed after the atrocities in London.
I think the government have been taking the softly softly approach for too long.
FIVE hundred radical Muslim extremists are to be deported by the government
http://www.newsoftheworld.co.uk/story_pages/news/news2.shtml
Who think's this is a good idea?
I know it's from the news of the world so has to be taken with a pinch of salt but i think it's the action that's needed after the atrocities in London.
I think the government have been taking the softly softly approach for too long.
It appears to be a good idea, but probably will be challenged by many citizens, in particular Muslim citizens.
SandTiger
07-Aug-05, 18:09
I think the Law Lords may take a different view:
TONY Blair's counter-terrorism strategy is in chaos after the Lord
Chancellor, Lord Falconer, flatly contradicted his plans to make it easier
to deport terror suspects. A day after Blair declared he would amend Human
Rights laws in order to throw Islamic extremists out of Britain, Falconer
said the government would leave the laws intact.
Downing Street insisted Blair's plans remained on track, but Falconer's
comments plunged the government's strategy into doubt, amid growing claims
that law lords are furious at the plans and have forced a government
climbdown.
Blair's plans were announced on Friday when, in a significant shift away
from pro-human rights policies championed since 1997, he declared he would
not hesitate to amend the Human Rights Act, forcing judges to get tougher on
terror suspects.
It follows frustration within the government that attempts to deport
extremists have been blocked by British judges on the grounds that they
would contravene the European Convention on Human Rights, which holds that
individuals should not be deported to countries if they face ill-treatment
or torture.
Blair stated clearly: "Should legal obstacles arise, we will legislate
further if necessary, amending the Human Rights Act in respect of the
interpretation of the European Convention on Human Rights."
But only 24 hours later, Falconer issued a contradictory line. "We are not
willing to repeal any part of the Human Rights Act," he told BBC News 24.
http://scotlandonsunday.scotsman.com/index.cfm?id=1740692005
FIVE hundred radical Muslim extremists are to be deported by the government
http://www.newsoftheworld.co.uk/story_pages/news/news2.shtml
Who think's this is a good idea?
It's a terrible idea. Passing a law to make something someone did last year illegal so you can punish them for it this year is not justice, as far as I know it has never been done before, probably because it is so ludicrously unfair.
It's about time that Blair acted like a man and took responsibility for his actions in invading Afghanistan and Iraq instead of frantically trying to find someone else to blame. He could deport five thousand Muslim extremists or fifty thousand and it wouldn't make a blind bit of difference, if we bomb Muslim cities Muslims will bomb our cities it's as simple as that.
i read in the paper that someone said Blair was acting like a Hitler type figure by deporting these people
honestjohn
08-Aug-05, 00:19
Britain should stop asylum seekers entering the country full stop. As soon as they enter the country they should be sent back immediately. After all, if we were to arrive in a Western country asking for political asylum we would either be deported or executed.
champagnebaby
08-Aug-05, 00:30
It's about time that Blair acted like a man and took responsibility for his actions in invading Afghanistan and Iraq instead of frantically trying to find someone else to blame. He could deport five thousand Muslim extremists or fifty thousand and it wouldn't make a blind bit of difference, if we bomb Muslim cities Muslims will bomb our cities it's as simple as that.
Blair 'acting like a man' isn't going to stop the extremists is it??[mad]
Least by deporting the extremists it will lessen the chances of younger Muslims being influenced by them and hopefully lessen the chances of any more bombings.
I don't think Blair is acting like Hitler by booting these people out the country, i think it's about time measures such as these were taken. Before the London bombings i wouldn't have agreed but now i think it is his duty to do all he can to protect the country, i believe it's his fault the country is at risk but i also think he done the right thing in going to war and taking out Saddam. Shame they haven't caugh Bin Laden yet though :roll:
SandTiger
08-Aug-05, 00:48
... After all, if we were to arrive in a Western country asking for political asylum we would either be deported or executed.
Eh?
Britain should stop asylum seekers entering the country full stop. As soon as they enter the country they should be sent back immediately. After all, if we were to arrive in a Western country asking for political asylum we would either be deported or executed.
I believe I have read that entering Muslim countries without declaring allegience to Allah (Mohammad) can be dangerous to ones health.
SandTiger
08-Aug-05, 01:01
i read in the paper that someone said Blair was acting like a Hitler type figure by deporting these people
Possibly this is what prompted the remark, as reported in the same paper -
All 500 have been taken from a "watch list" of extremists compiled over the past five years by the Intelligence Service. Their identities are being kept secret so that they will not be able to go into hiding or mount a legal challenge.
If the concept of natural justice is ignored then we have a very interesting situation on our hands.
SandTiger
08-Aug-05, 01:04
Britain should stop asylum seekers entering the country full stop. As soon as they enter the country they should be sent back immediately. After all, if we were to arrive in a Western country asking for political asylum we would either be deported or executed.
I believe I have read that entering Muslim countries without declaring allegience to Allah (Mohammad) can be dangerous to ones health.
I take it you are one of the 10% that has a passport then?
I take it you are one of the 10% that has a pasport then?[/quote]
As a matter of fact I do carry a passport when I travel. My employment requires that I do so.
SandTiger
08-Aug-05, 01:11
I take it you are one of the 10% that has a pasport then?
As a matter of fact I do carry a passport when I travel. My employment requires that I do so.
So how many muslim countries have you visited?
SandTiger
08-Aug-05, 01:19
You'll have to excuse my bluntness marion, but a lot of my friends are being abused on the street and getting their heads kicked in due to misinformed information :(
SandTiger
08-Aug-05, 01:31
champagnebaby - Does the concept of removing someone from the country purely on the whim of the secret services and the information that they may or may not have gathered concern you a tad?
Coz it scares the hell out of me!
champagnebaby
08-Aug-05, 04:39
I guess so, but better to be safe than sorry. And even if 90% of their intelligence is correct then it's better than having that 90% of extremists in the country.
I believe I have read that entering Muslim countries without declaring allegience to Allah (Mohammad) can be dangerous to ones health.
Not sure what erudite publications you have read Marion, but they are wrong. I live and work in Saudi Arabia and have never had to declare any allegience to anything. I have also visited/worked in Egypt, Syria, Iran, Qatar, Bahrain, UAE, Oman, Maldives, Indonesia, Tunisa, Morocco & Turkey and never had to delcare such an allegiance either.
I believe I have read that entering Muslim countries without declaring allegience to Allah (Mohammad) can be dangerous to ones health.
Not sure what erudite publications you have read Marion, but they are wrong. I live and work in Saudi Arabia and have never had to declare any allegience to anything. I have also visited/worked in Egypt, Syria, Iran, Qatar, Bahrain, UAE, Oman, Maldives, Indonesia, Tunisa, Morocco & Turkey and never had to delcare such an allegiance either.
Would the opposite also be true? If you were to get a bunch of born again Christians together on a Sunday, outside one of the local churches in any of those countries, blast the authorities and its citizens as immoral and deluded infidels, would they reward you by paying your rent and feeding your children?
Answers on a postage stamp please.
;) [lol] I did fail to mention that you are in fact asked what religion you are and your residence permit relfects this i.e Muslims will have a green one,the rest are a burgandy colour ;)
I have the answer to this problem....Do away with RELIGION....problem solved
Aye but you must admit the Hibs are rubbish this year ;) [lol]
It's about time that Blair acted like a man and took responsibility for his actions in invading Afghanistan and Iraq instead of frantically trying to find someone else to blame. He could deport five thousand Muslim extremists or fifty thousand and it wouldn't make a blind bit of difference, if we bomb Muslim cities Muslims will bomb our cities it's as simple as that.
Blair 'acting like a man' isn't going to stop the extremists is it??[mad]
Nothing Blair does is going to stop the extremists, he could stop stiring up a race war in Britain though. So long as he's standing there declaring it's all the Muslims fault, they are evil people and it doesn't matter if we abandon human rights and justice to deal with them then a lot of people are going to believe him. The more fear he stirs up the more hatred he stirs up because fear and hatred are the same emotion.
Least by deporting the extremists it will lessen the chances of younger Muslims being influenced by them and hopefully lessen the chances of any more bombings.:
No, when you sacrifice freedom for security you end up losing both.
Have you forgotten already how Blair conned the British people into getting into this mess? He got them scared, he scared the living daylights out of them with stories of weapons of mass destruction, dirty bombs, nerve gas, anthrax, all pointed at Britain and able to be launched in 45 minutes. So we turned our backs on justice and invaded another country without a UN resolution, the British people let him do it because the British people were scared. We didn't give a damn about all the innocent women and children who would die in Iraq because we were scared. We had the security all along, Britain was never in any danger at all, we had security all along but we threw it away because we were scared.
What amazes me is how many people are stupid enough to fall for the same trick twice.
I don't think Blair is acting like Hitler by booting these people out the country, i think it's about time measures such as these were taken. Before the London bombings i wouldn't have agreed but now i think it is his duty to do all he can to protect the country, i believe it's his fault the country is at risk but i also think he done the right thing in going to war and taking out Saddam. Shame they haven't caugh Bin Laden yet though :roll:
Bin Laden is one of them, one of the elite lika Bush and Blair who will just get richer and more powerful from the pain, suffering and bloodshed of the ordinary people.
I have the answer to this problem....Do away with RELIGION....problem solved
Man will never be free until the last politician has been strangled with the entrails of the last priest.
champagnebaby - Does the concept of removing someone from the country purely on the whim of the secret services and the information that they may or may not have gathered concern you a tad?
Coz it scares the hell out of me!
Scares me too!
the trouble with witch hunts is they always find witches
SandTiger
08-Aug-05, 12:25
I guess so, but better to be safe than sorry. And even if 90% of their intelligence is correct then it's better than having that 90% of extremists in the country.
Well I guess it's a tad less paperwork then executing innocent tube users and the notional 10% that have been wrongfully deported into hostile situations wont really be coming back to haunt us, will they?
Man will never be free until the last politician has been strangled with the entrails of the last priest.
Sorry Fred there were religious fanatics trying to dominate this world before the likes of Blair,or yon Thatcher haragan.
fred i think you need to stop thinking about our politics and think about terrorism as a whole, we all know you dont like blair its plain and simple to read. But if someone is in our country inciting violence and aggression against the country which has taken them in, dont you think it is" just reward" to put them out of the country.
Man will never be free until the last politician has been strangled with the entrails of the last priest.
Sorry Fred there were religious fanatics trying to dominate this world before the likes of Blair,or yon Thatcher haragan.
Notice I didn't attribute the quote, it's hard to say who first said it but before it said "politician" it said "king". The principle is the same though.
fred i think you need to stop thinking about our politics and think about terrorism as a whole, we all know you dont like blair its plain and simple to read. But if someone is in our country inciting violence and aggression against the country which has taken them in, dont you think it is" just reward" to put them out of the country.
And the Nationalists who are inciting violence and aggreesion towords the ethnic minorities in Britain, where are we going to deport them to?
Inciting violence is illegal, anyone doing it should be hauled before the courts and have everything the law allows thrown at them, black or white, Christian or Muslim.
It's just a pity there wern't so many people willing to stand up and speak out against violence and agression before we started carpet bombing villages in Afghanistan.
FRED i understand what you are saying, but you still didnt answer my question about deporting them. If we keep them here they can still incite hate and violence from jail.
peter macdonald
08-Aug-05, 22:22
Inciting violence is illegal, anyone doing it should be hauled before the courts and have everything the law allows thrown at them, black or white, Christian or Muslim.
I totally agree with you but we in Scotland are very guity of double standards
If you have ever listened to the claptrap chants of 50.000 people attending Old firm football matches proclaiming their allegiance to their "their religion (or as it is called nowadays "Tradition") then you will know what I mean.
Yet how many of these specators who are chanting "up to there knees in fenian blood" or singing "Up the IRA" have ever been procecuted ?? Imagine a muslim team whose specators were chanting similar things about their Christian opponents ...The mind boggles with the reation that would bring.!!!
And in case you think i am trivialising this issue just take a look up the back issues of the Glasgow Herald to see how many people in Scotland have been killed or seriously injured in the name of their "tradition" in the last 25years.
The problem is we cant deport our racial/religious bigots A) because they are Scottish and B) nobody in their right mind would take them
FRED i understand what you are saying, but you still didnt answer my question about deporting them. If we keep them here they can still incite hate and violence from jail.
If you deport them they can still incite hate and violence from where you deport them to, a darn sight easier than they could from prison and we have no control over them whatsoever. If someone really is inciting hatred and violence in this country we should deal with it in this country not push the problem off onto someone else, it also has the advantage that we can ensure the problem is dealt with humanely without the use of torture and execution.
It's academic anyway because the people in question haven't broken any laws, they haven't incited any specific acts of violence or they would have been arrested and tried for it. What the government wants to do is make it illegal to glorify terrorist acts but make the law retrospective, anyone who has glorified terrorist acts in the past will be deemed to be guilty and eligable for deportation not just the people who glorify terrorist acts after the law is passed, that is a dangerous precedent.
Then you have the problem of defining terrorist acts, one mans terrorist is another mans freedom fighter. Would the law include glorifying the insurgents in Iraq who are fighting against an army of occupation? How about the insurgents in Afghanistan who were fighting against the Russian occupation?
But the main thing we have to consider is what sort of message deporting hundreds of Muslim clerics is going to send to the Muslims of Britain, especially if it violates their human rights. Is it going to make them less anti British or more anti British? Does the passing of a blatantly unfair law make someone less likely to resort to terrorism or more likely to resort to terrorism?
I thought I read the topic as applied to "Radical Muslims." If you are a Muslim but not a Radical Muslim, the subject does not apply to you. At least I hope not.
The same thing for Radical Christians. If you are a Christian but not a Radical Christian, I doubt anyone is faulting you. At least I hope not.
To kill in the name of Allah or to kill in the name of Jesus Christ, I believe is forbidden in the Holy Koran as well as in the Holy Bible.
Moderate Muslims must make themselves heard. Today, we are not at risk only for short-term terrorist attacks, but (we're also facing) long-term risks by allowing for the uncontrolled growth of Islamic powers, that are capable of intimidating the many Muslims who are under-represented precisely because they are not extremist. We carefully cultivate the legend according to which there is a "moderate" Islam. There are Muslims who appreciate democracy, civil rights and equality of the law between male and female and who would prefer not to be governed by Islamic law. Then there are others, those with whom we struggle to understand what "dialogue" would be based on.
The silky transition of Crown Prince Abdullah to the Saudi throne has been met with grateful relief all around. Demands for greater democracy, on the other hand, are unlikely to present a major headache for the new monarch. Reform loses its appeal in times of prosperity. It is, anyway, the preoccupation of a small number of Western-educated sophisticates who are greatly outnumbered by a conservative majority whose loyalties are to family and tribe and to the harsh form of Islam which is the twin pillar of the state.
London (www.telegraph.co.uk/opinion/)
To kill in the name of Allah or to kill in the name of Jesus Christ, I believe is forbidden in the Holy Koran as well as in the Holy Bible.
Well that isn't surprising, Christians and Muslims worship the same God. Allah isn't a different God to the Christian God it's just a different name for the same God. Their religeon is based on the same scriptures as the Christian religeon, they have the same prophets.
An awful lot of people have been killed in the name of Jesus Christ though, we've been killing Muslims in the name of Jesus Christ since the 11th century. I would think that if Channel Four were to do a Top Ten Reasons for Being Killed Jesus Christ would be right up there at the top.
Onward Christian So-o-o-o-ldiers...
An awful lot of people have been killed in the name of Jesus Christ though, we've been killing Muslims in the name of Jesus Christ since the 11th century. I would think that if Channel Four were to do a Top Ten Reasons for Being Killed Jesus Christ would be right up there at the top.
Onward Christian So-o-o-o-ldiers...
I don't think we are in the crusading business anymore. E.G. the Serbs weren't killed in the name of Jesus to protect the Muslims.
As for praying to Jesus on the battlefield? I don't think there are many atheists when under fire from the enemy...
An awful lot of people have been killed in the name of Jesus Christ though, we've been killing Muslims in the name of Jesus Christ since the 11th century. I would think that if Channel Four were to do a Top Ten Reasons for Being Killed Jesus Christ would be right up there at the top.
Onward Christian So-o-o-o-ldiers...
I don't think we are in the crusading business anymore. E.G. the Serbs weren't killed in the name of Jesus to protect the Muslims.
I don't think that the terrorists are motivated by religeon these days either, well no more that Born Again Bush is anyway.
The fact remains that Christ said "turn the other cheek" yet after 9/11 all the bible thumping Christians of America started shouting "an eye for an eye" and they didn't care whos eye they got just so long as it was a Muslim eye.
I see no difference between Muslims who condone the Londod bombings and Christians who condone the bombing of Iraq and Afghanistan. I don't condone either, how others see the Muslim clerics who preach hate and violence is just how I see the instigators and supporters of the war in Iraq as well.
I don't think that the terrorists are motivated by religeon these days either,
Then how do you explain anti infidel passages of the Koran written on the headscarves of suicide bombers? :roll:
I don't think that the terrorists are motivated by religeon these days either,
Then how do you explain anti infidel passages of the Koran written on the headscarves of suicide bombers? :roll:
Same way you explain "Mon Dieu et Mon Droit" on army belt buckles.
That is no expanation, that is a non sequittur.
That is no expanation, that is a non sequittur.
Is it now.
So tell me which anti-infidel passages on which headscarves of which terrorists?
Were the London bombers wearing headscarves with anti infidel passages from the Koran on them? Do all terrorists wear headscarves with anti infidel passages from the Koran on them?
That is no expanation, that is a non sequittur.
Is it now.
So tell me which anti-infidel passages on which headscarves of which terrorists?
Were the London bombers wearing headscarves with anti infidel passages from the Koran on them? Do all terrorists wear headscarves with anti infidel passages from the Koran on them?
Some do when they pose for their pre detonation photo shoot, I have seen the photos, surely you have also?
That is no expanation, that is a non sequittur.
Is it now.
So tell me which anti-infidel passages on which headscarves of which terrorists?
Were the London bombers wearing headscarves with anti infidel passages from the Koran on them? Do all terrorists wear headscarves with anti infidel passages from the Koran on them?
Some do when they pose for their pre detonation photo shoot, I have seen the photos, surely you have also?
No.
Can you post a link?
Can you post a link?
http://images.indymedia.org/imc/vancouver/child1_bomber.jpgbzbmxr.jpg
Can you explain how literal interpretetions of the Koran has not influenced the actions of these muslims?
Can you post a link?
Can you explain how literal interpretetions of the Koran has not influenced the actions of these muslims?
What does it say? I don't speak Arabic.
Neither do I, but I think it is safe to to say it is something from the Koran and not from an Arabic translation of one of Enid Blyton's novels...
Neither do I, but I think it is safe to to say it is something from the Koran and not from an Arabic translation of one of Enid Blyton's novels...
OK then you don't know what it says.
Who are they? What part of the world are they in?
What part of the world are they in?
That is quite funny of you Fred, if you can't believe that that picture shows that suicide bombers are not influenced by literal interpretations of Islam (which you deny) and you are not prepared to believe that these people have any thing to do with suicide bombing then 'What part of which world are You on?' [lol]
keep on fred in your naive world, you're a real class act
“A religion, even if it calls itself the religion of love, must be hard and unloving to those who do not belong to it.”
-- Sigmund Freud (1856-1939), Group Psychology and the Analysis of the Ego, 1921
sorry fred, i have done another of those Argumentum ad hominenem thingmies again... [lol]
What part of the world are they in?
That is quite funny of you Fred, if you can't believe that that picture shows that suicide bombers are not influenced by literal interpretations of Islam (which you deny) and you are not prepared to believe that these people have any thing to do with suicide bombing then 'What part of which world are You on?' [lol]
keep on fred in your naive world, you're a real class act
I asked who they are and what part of the world they are from, how can I tell you what motivated them to become suicide bombers if you don't tell me that?
Notice the word "motivated" which is what I said originally, you seem to have changed it to "influenced" along the way to better suit your argument.
sorry fred, i have done another of those Argumentum ad hominenem thingmies again... [lol]
I'm used to it by now.
<br.
I believe the events of 9/11/2001 in New York City and those in London will occur again where and when we least expect it to happen. Those who stick their head into the sand like the proverbial ostrich thinking that if they don't see it - it won't happen, will have little to offer when it does happen again or they will offer some excuse to explain it away. We saw the same things occuring prior to WW2 when Neville Chamberlain returned with the proclamation "we have peace in our own time." Oh, how sad that statement turned out to be.
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