View Full Version : Guilty or not Guilty?
We have recently heard that Kate and Gerry McCann are now suspects in the case of their missing daughter. With everything that has come to light so far do you think they have been involved and do you have any theories??
i think most of it has been said in the other numerous threads :lol:
I dont see how anyone can possibly say if they are guilty or not and it would be very wrong to do so as most of the information regarding the dissapearance of madeleine is through the press, The portugese police have a secrecy law & the McCanns cannot speak of their interviews so the only information the public get is hearsay.
The family must be going through absolute hell and i imagine that this is only the start of it for them
I think that this post is in bad taste. Particularly with the child still missing. How would you like if it were YOUR child missing and people were invited to invent scenarios that might involve YOU murdering YOUR own child.
There are plenty threads on here as it is concerning the McCanns. I hope your invitation gets short shrift on all of them.
yes too much hearsay, too much speculation, let it rest, at least until the full truth is known - whatever happened to innocent until proven guilty? They made a mistake, they are human, we all err sometime. No-one can make them feel badder than they proberly do themselves. :(
We have recently heard that Kate and Gerry McCann are now suspects in the case of their missing daughter. With everything that has come to light so far do you think they have been involved and do you have any theories??
I think you should have asked us this question, "Is it reasonable that the McCanns are suspects in the disappearance of Madeleine?"
The answer to which must be a "Yes".
connieb19
15-Sep-07, 01:15
I think you should have asked us this question, "Is it reasonable that the McCanns are suspects in the disappearance of Madeleine?"
The answer to which must be a "Yes".
I agree.....
Why? without knowing e full facts? If that was e case, surely e sons would be at risk also. If im wrong, I will admit it, but come on, why would they harm only one child? There are 3 children in that family. I cannae see why they would only harm one kid, even if they did, e other two would notice something surely? And what about the friends they had checking them, nothing has been heard about them, why are'nt they suspects when they have had access to the apartment and proberly e car.
I would hope that all those who were likely to be able to gain access to the apartment would have been checked out, if only to eliminate them.
I also agree that it is right that the McCanns are investigated, not that I have the slightest reason to believe they intentionally harmed their daughter, sorry, Madeleine.
I don't think there has ever been a serious suggestion the McCanns murdered Madeleine, other than perhaps in the more dubious papers in Portugal.
What is being investigated is the possibility, and it would appear that it is only a possibility, that some unforeseen accident occurred resulting in Madeleine's death and that the McCanns covered the fact up and later disposed of the body.
The Portuguese Police believe they have reason to believe that possibility, the McCanns refute that possibility completely.
Obviously both can’t be right, other than accepting the theory of an infinite number of parallel universes that is. For the time being there is nothing that points clearly in either direction.
What I do find interesting are the comments about the DNA samples. For many years now we have been assured that complete DNA samples are infallible in identifying people.
Now it would seem that the Expert who originally developed DNA identification says that all the McCann family will have the some of the same markers and that it would be impossible to be certain if any came only from Madeleine.
Assuming a sample is large enough for a full check, DNA is either totally reliable in identifying an individual or it isn't, once again, both can't be true.
Surely the McCanns will welcome the investigation and a subsequent case in order to clear their name?:roll:
I think MORE than enough threads have appeared on this forum about the McCanns and will say again put yourself in their place and see how you would feel if you were innocent and were desperately trying to find out what did happen to your child?Whether they are innocent or guilty is NOT up to us,let the police show us some evidence before we start a witch hunt please.What about Ben Needham...he disappeared years ago and has never been found Madeline could have fallen victim to the same fate and people becoming judge and jury before we know all the facts is no better than the witch hunts of Salem x
I think MORE than enough threads have appeared on this forum about the McCanns and will say again put yourself in their place and see how you would feel if you were innocent and were desperately trying to find out what did happen to your child?Whether they are innocent or guilty is NOT up to us,let the police show us some evidence before we start a witch hunt please.What about Ben Needham...he disappeared years ago and has never been found Madeline could have fallen victim to the same fate and people becoming judge and jury before we know all the facts is no better than the witch hunts of Salem x
We are only discussing a high profile case of national interest and this is a message board where we can discuss things. We can only make an assessment on the information that is available and these threads serve the purpose of collating all the points. If you don't want to take part in these threads then don't.
Fine by me Rheghead BUT how many posts do we actually need on here to "discuss" the same thing?If there were 3 threads about embroidery,cooking,carcare etc then people would say "how come there are 3 threads more or less saying the same things" so is this any different? I simply pointed out that IMO there has been more than enough said on this matter but if that annoyed you in some way I apoligise for having my own opionion on it.Like you said it is a discussion board and I said how I feel on the matter x
This doesn't involve me but as you said Rheghead this is a discussion board. A place where you go to give your opinion. Thats exactly what Thumper did and yet you shot her down in flames for doing so? People are allowed to give their opion but you should at least do it in as nice a way as possible.
This doesn't involve me but as you said Rheghead this is a discussion board. A place where you go to give your opinion. Thats exactly what Thumper did and yet you shot her down in flames for doing so? People are allowed to give their opion but you should at least do it in as nice a way as possible.
You are right that I was stifling debate about stifling debate. Nice one.
I would hope that all those who were likely to be able to gain access to the apartment would have been checked out, if only to eliminate them.
I also agree that it is right that the McCanns are investigated, not that I have the slightest reason to believe they intentionally harmed their daughter, sorry, Madeleine.
I don't think there has ever been a serious suggestion the McCanns murdered Madeleine, other than perhaps in the more dubious papers in Portugal.
What is being investigated is the possibility, and it would appear that it is only a possibility, that some unforeseen accident occurred resulting in Madeleine's death and that the McCanns covered the fact up and later disposed of the body.
The Portuguese Police believe they have reason to believe that possibility, the McCanns refute that possibility completely.
Obviously both can’t be right, other than accepting the theory of an infinite number of parallel universes that is. For the time being there is nothing that points clearly in either direction.
What I do find interesting are the comments about the DNA samples. For many years now we have been assured that complete DNA samples are infallible in identifying people.
Now it would seem that the Expert who originally developed DNA identification says that all the McCann family will have the some of the same markers and that it would be impossible to be certain if any came only from Madeleine.
Assuming a sample is large enough for a full check, DNA is either totally reliable in identifying an individual or it isn't, once again, both can't be true.
This passage is from the Crown Prosecution Service website:-
"There are two basic stages that you need to be aware of with DNA profiling, as they may be the subject of legal challenge.
* the matching of the sample(s) from the scene of the crime or the victim with those obtained from the defendant; and
* the statistical evaluation of the match.
Single locus probes (SLP) as opposed to multi-locus probes (MLP) are used as part of the process in all criminal investigations. This is because of the small amount of the sample usually obtained from the scene of the crime. Prosecutors with MLP cases should resist any suggestion that MLPs were abandoned because they were unreliable. This should be done with the help of scientific witnesses.
The defence may challenge the prosecution assertion that the DNA Crime stain and defendant profiles match. This is no different from a defence challenge to other types of evidence, for example, handwriting.
No two profiles are ever identical. The quality and quantity of the materials and equipment used in the analysis produce a result which may vary in its visual clarity.
There are guidelines used by the FSS which take into account these varying factors. If the guidelines are followed, an expert can be confident in declaring whether there is a match between the profiles.
The decision as to whether there is a match is made by the expert and his or her peers. Therefore, it is always open for the defence to call an expert to challenge both the findings and the criteria.
If there is a challenge, you will need to ensure, in advance of any trial, that the prosecution expert can cover the issues raised by the defence expert. If necessary, you should consider consulting another expert with greater experience. A decision to consult a second expert should be made by the Head of Trial Unit or a lawyer at level E or above.
The defence may challenge both accuracy of the statistical calculations and the population database on which they were based.
The rarity of DNA profiles is calculated as a statistical probability and, as such, it can never be absolute. When very small frequencies are quoted for the chance of finding a matching profile, the evidence of association is extremely powerful.
The optimum size of statistical databases is the subject of scientific debate and a frequent area in which the defence seek to challenge the statistical finding.
If there is a challenge, the guidelines used by the FSS assume importance. You may need to consider the use of a statistician. The routine calling of a statistician in DNA cases will usually be unnecessary.
You should remember that statistical interpretation of findings is only one aspect of the presentation of DNA evidence which may assist a jury in assessing the weight to be given to the evidence of a match.
If there is no indication to any challenge to the statistical evidence, calling a statistician can cause unnecessary confusion, delay and expense. Pre-trial reviews are of particular value in evaluating the likely areas of challenge as mentioned above in this section.
Information about the defendant may assist the scientist in his or her selection of the population database to be used.
The existence of close relatives of the defendant is relevant, as they would have a much higher chance of sharing a similar DNA profile.
You should check with the police whether any close relatives exist who could have committed the offence and whether it is possible to obtain DNA samples from them for comparison.
You should then check that the scientist is aware of the existence of any such persons, as it will affect the calculations."
porshiepoo
15-Sep-07, 15:33
I think MORE than enough threads have appeared on this forum about the McCanns and will say again put yourself in their place and see how you would feel if you were innocent and were desperately trying to find out what did happen to your child?Whether they are innocent or guilty is NOT up to us,let the police show us some evidence before we start a witch hunt please.What about Ben Needham...he disappeared years ago and has never been found Madeline could have fallen victim to the same fate and people becoming judge and jury before we know all the facts is no better than the witch hunts of Salem x
But they're not innocent are they! At the very least they are guilty are putting Maddie in such a dangerous situation that it facilitated the abduction of her.
IMO there is nothing wrong with asking the question that started this thread. Yes there are other similar threads but it's very easy to be accused of hijacking a thread on here, always safest to start your own thread even if it is along similar lines as others.
I also don't think there is any moral reason why people shouldn't discuss Maddie, her parents or the reasons surrounding what has happened. It helps keep her story alive if nothing else and lets face it, we're all entitled to an opinion.
But they're not innocent are they! At the very least they are guilty are putting Maddie in such a dangerous situation that it facilitated the abduction of her.
IMO there is nothing wrong with asking the question that started this thread. Yes there are other similar threads but it's very easy to be accused of hijacking a thread on here, always safest to start your own thread even if it is along similar lines as others.
I also don't think there is any moral reason why people shouldn't discuss Maddie, her parents or the reasons surrounding what has happened. It helps keep her story alive if nothing else and lets face it, we're all entitled to an opinion.
Yes poshiepoo I agree we are all entitiled to an opinion and that's exactly what I did- I gave my opinion.I know everyone has different takes on this and thats fine all I am saying is let's just wait until they have definate proof that the McCanns did something.I am not disagreeing that by leave Maddie alone they have to accept some of the blame but until we know the facts do any of us have the right to judge?We only know "snippets" leaked to the press and if we believe everything the press say we would all be on mars talking to Elvis right now x
Guilty or not guilty they still have to live with the fact that if they had not left Maddie she may never have gone missing, this is only my opinion
porshiepoo
15-Sep-07, 21:42
Yes poshiepoo I agree we are all entitiled to an opinion and that's exactly what I did- I gave my opinion.I know everyone has different takes on this and thats fine all I am saying is let's just wait until they have definate proof that the McCanns did something.I am not disagreeing that by leave Maddie alone they have to accept some of the blame but until we know the facts do any of us have the right to judge?We only know "snippets" leaked to the press and if we believe everything the press say we would all be on mars talking to Elvis right now x
Oh ok so everytime this topic comes up in conversation in your everyday life then you're going to refuse to discuss it huh?
Well that's all well and good but there is nothing to stop others on this forum discussing the topic here. If people choose not to take part in the conversation that is their perogative and shouldn't join in on the thread.
I haven't suggested we should judge anybody.
Oh ok so everytime this topic comes up in conversation in your everyday life then you're going to refuse to discuss it huh?
Well that's all well and good but there is nothing to stop others on this forum discussing the topic here. If people choose not to take part in the conversation that is their perogative and shouldn't join in on the thread.
I haven't suggested we should judge anybody.
Isn't that just like saying don't join in on the discussion unless you agree with what everybody else is saying?I thought the whole point of forums was for everybody to have a say in things?:roll:And yes when this conversation comes up in everyday life I say exactly the same thing as I do on here , that I would rather wait until all the facts are known before passing judgement.I have not ever tried to stop anyone from discussing it I simply pointed out that there seems to be a lot of threads with more or less the same discussion going on and fail to see why that has seemed to annoy you.
This is an appalling thread - lets see
My neighbour has been arrested on shoplifting charges - are they guilty or not guilty?
Someone else i know has been interviewed on sex offence case - are they guilty or not guilty?
Yon mannie who lives down the street has been questioned by the police about a break in - Guilty or not guilty?
This board is getting more like the gutter press every day
In the light of the publication of the Portuguese Police foul ups, and the current revelations that have come to light, I wonder if there are those on the Org who now feel guilty at being so quick to condemn the McCann's?
In the light of the publication of the Portuguese Police foul ups, and the current revelations that have come to light, I wonder if there are those on the Org who now feel guilty at being so quick to condemn the McCann's?
I don't see much condemnation of guilt, I just see some agreeing that they should be suspects. I still believe that they should have been suspects and I now agree that they are right to have been cleared.
this poor couple have suffered enough without, it being kept going, my godd they have lost their daughter, aye they were wrong to leave them in the room on their own, but the fact that their eldest daughter was taken away, is enough punishment for them.
Still look a bit suss to me, after all kate didnt want to answer 48 questions put to her by the police, she was advised by her brief that to answer would be incriminating, excuse me but if my daughter was missing I would answer every single question to help find her.
I am still not fully on the "innocent" bus as yet as their is still so much we still dont know,or may never know. Until shes found I am afriad there will always be the "what if" questions.
Still look a bit suss to me, after all kate didnt want to answer 48 questions put to her by the police, she was advised by her brief that to answer would be incriminating, excuse me but if my daughter was missing I would answer every single question to help find her.
I am still not fully on the "innocent" bus as yet as their is still so much we still dont know,or may never know. Until shes found I am afriad there will always be the "what if" questions.
So, you're firmly in the "Guilty until proved innocent camp then?"
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