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what rights do teachers have when it comes to pupils?
can a teacher confiscate a childs possessions without parental consent?
Is a teacher allowed to call a child stupid or thick?
my children have come home on several occasions with stories from school & i often wonder if the school is always in the right.whats everyone elses experiences?
j4bberw0ck
07-Sep-07, 11:32
What rights do teachers have, full stop? Not enough........
They most certainly should have the right to be trusted by parents. Calling a child "thick" is regrettable, but does it merit complaint? Not in my book..... More likely it reflects the frustration of trying to educate 25 or so screaming savages plus 5 who actually want to learn something. Confiscation should be a part of any teacher's powers - mobile phones are a case in point. They have to be given back, though, or it's theft - more's the pity. Auctioning them off for charity would be a better idea - complete with potentially embarrassing text messages.
Just my joyless, reactionary viewpoint :lol:
i personally do not think mobiles should be allowed on school grounds at all. they have no reason to have them.
as for confiscating, dont know what the laws are now. but in my day they had every right to take things away that was inapropriate for school.
my personal belief is that if my child is not paying attention in class cos busy fiddling with something else then the teacher is absolutely correct to take it away and my child will have to go to that teachers class to retrieve it at the end of the day. My child is in school to learn not faff about with whatever takes their attention.
i think a teacher calling a child thick or stupid an absolute disgrace!
Yes a teacher can get frustrated I know ive worked as a teaching assistant but there are other ways to deal with unruly children without retorting to name calling.
Teachers have a hard enough job to do without haveing the added problems of mobiles, mp3 players etc, they should be allowed to confiscate them during school hours after all what form of discipline do they have nowadays, But i dont think its right to call a child thick, stupid or any other name although i can understand their frustration.
Maybe if parents made their kids more aware of not taking these items to school or at the very least not taking them out in class there wouldnt be a problem.
It reminds me of my sister years ago at school she was called a 3 dimensional ( unrepeatable word ) by one of her teachers and on telling our Dad he replied "The teacher may well be in the wrong, but why were you acting like one"?
j4bberw0ck
07-Sep-07, 12:09
i think a teacher calling a child thick or stupid an absolute disgrace!
You're assuming, of course, that he or she did indeed call a child "thick" and that it wasn't something that just got blown out of all proportion? Let's assume for a moment that it was your child, and he or she was indeed called "thick" by a teacher. What would you do?
Teachers have a hard enough job to do without haveing the added problems of mobiles, mp3 players etc, they should be allowed to confiscate them during school hours after all what form of discipline do they have nowadays, But i dont think its right to call a child thick, stupid or any other name although i can understand their frustration.
Maybe if parents made their kids more aware of not taking these items to school or at the very least not taking them out in class there wouldnt be a problem.
It reminds me of my sister years ago at school she was called a 3 dimensional ( unrepeatable word ) by one of her teachers and on telling our Dad he replied "The teacher may well be in the wrong, but why were you acting like one"?
seems to me sam that your dad was a very wise man, 10 outa 10 to him for that.:cool: :cool:
my child came home the other day all up in arms for being put to the back of the lunch queue cos they fell and bumped into another student who was making a fuss about it so teacher thought they were fighting, imagine my childs shock when I said, did you fall against the other student? to which the answer was yes and I said well you must have been carrying on so the teacher was correct, the queue is not the place to be larking around to which my child said yes they were carrying on a bit, but was most upset that I had not taken their side :lol:
You're assuming, of course, that he or she did indeed call a child "thick" and that it wasn't something that just got blown out of all proportion? Let's assume for a moment that it was your child, and he or she was indeed called "thick" by a teacher. What would you do?
Ive actually had that experience!! A teacher did tell my child who has learning difficulties that they were thick & stupid & i went straight into school & wiped the floor with the teacher concerned! it turned out the teacher hadnt taken the time to read my childs file & didnt realise they had difficulties & apologised profusely. but even if my child didnt have problems i would still have gone into school to ask why they felt the need to call my child names, ive taught my children from an early age that name calling isnt tolerable so why should they accept it from a teacher!
I remember being called a lot worse than thick when I was at school, I even got a slap around the ear from one teacher. I was too frighted to tell my parents as I would have been grounded for my behaviour, or even another clip round the ear.
I think it's important that parents support teachers as much as possible, even when we ourselves may not warm to individual teachers.
I know with my three kids and their friends, by the time a story was recounted at home, it had often grown arms and legs, and without being there at the time, a parent can't know for certain what actually happened.
I don't approve of anyone calling a child "thick", but many of us will have said to our own kids "oh, don't be so stupid!", when their behaviour at that moment HAS been immensely annoying and irritating.
If I felt there was a genuine problem with a particular teacher, I took it up with the teacher, without mentioning it to my child. Kids can be adept at playing adults off against each other, and I do think we need to show a united front about what behaviour is expected of them. It doesn't do them any favours in later life to automatically take their side.
Only once did I have a serious problem, where one teacher really took against one of my children - a personality conflict would be putting it mildly. On that occasion I took the matter up, firstly with the teacher involved, and then with the head teacher. The teacher had been experiencing a very difficult time personally, and soon afterwards was signed off work for a longish period.
Of course I put my child's interests first, but teachers are only human too.
crashbandicoot1979
07-Sep-07, 13:04
I don't think a teacher should call a child thick, but I could understand if a child was fooling about and for example deliberately giving daft answers to questions, I think it would be acceptable for a teacher to make a comment like "stop being silly/stupid." Its the same kind of comment a parent might make. It doesn't imply that the child is stupid, it just says that their particular action at that time is stupid.
As for possessions, I would assume that teachers would have the right to confiscate if appropriate, provided they return them at the end of the day. I personally hate having a conversation with someone who is texting someone else at the same time (or messing about with their mobile for any reason, in fact!), so I can't imagine how irritating it would be to have children texting while they're trying to teach them!
j4bberw0ck
07-Sep-07, 13:07
I remember being called a lot worse than thick when I was at school, I even got a slap around the ear from one teacher. I was too frighted to tell my parents as I would have been grounded for my behaviour, or even another clip round the ear.
Amen to that!
vodka-queen
07-Sep-07, 13:10
wen i was in school my mate had her fone taken off her and it was put to recieption n collected and was told ti collect it at the end of the day which she never got for days
Lolabelle
07-Sep-07, 13:22
I really don't think any child should have to suffer verbal abuse by anyone. I wouldn't be a school teacher for anything, I haven't got the nature for it, nor the patience. I think good teachers are an absolute blessing and I am sure there are more good ones than bad over there, same as here.
As for confiscating stuff, if it is stuff that shouldn't be at school, I think a note to the parents to come and collect the item should deter contraband, lol. Or if it's something that the kid is just goofing off with, taken for the rest of day or even the rest of week. You can see why I shouldn't be a teacher, :evil, lol!
j4bberw0ck
07-Sep-07, 13:23
A teacher did tell my child who has learning difficulties that they were thick & stupid
That additional piece of information does make it wrong but why would you feel the need to have
wiped the floor with the teacher concerned when you could have gone in as a reasonable person and talked about it?
Are you trying to teach your children that name-calling is bad, but encouraging "wiping the floor" with a teacher as OK? I'd politely suggest double standards are at work. Why just add yourself to the list of parents who, in a teacher's mind, are just likely to make their lives more difficult and unpleasant, when you could add yourself to the list of parents who're supportive and reasonable but for whom there's a definite issue of principle?
In my (personal and recent) experience, teachers are as capable of making mistakes as the next person, and approached in a reasonable fashion, willing to listen and make allowances for special / temporary problems which arise - and even to go well out of their way to help. Given some of the little sods - and even worse their parents - they have to deal with on a daily basis, I'm not at all sure I'd have the reserves of good will and dedication to be able to do the same thing in the same circumstance.
even if my child didnt have problems i would still have gone into school to ask why they felt the need to call my child names, ive taught my children from an early age that name calling isnt tolerable so why should they accept it from a teacher!
Sorry, still think they've got enough on their plate not to need yet another parent trying to stir up a situation that would have been "least said, soonest mended". I'd be inclined to save my complaints for something that matters.
firstly J4bberw0ck I did do in to the school & politely asked the teacher to explain what had happened, it was once the teacher in question had finished shouting at me like she was speaking to a 2 year old & telling me how useless my child was that I decided to wipe the floor with her! my child wasnt present when this incident happened so I dont see how this is encouraging my child to do the same.
Im not the sort of parent who thinks her child is an angel & can do no wrong, mine can be brats the same as everyones.
But I wont sit back & let anyone not even a teacher speak to my child in a manner I dont feel appropriate.
as for keeping complaints for something that matters I think upsetting & ridiculing my child in front of 28 people worth the complaint.
i dont think its right for a teacher to abuse a child of any kind, verbal abuse isnt a nice thing
j4bberw0ck
07-Sep-07, 16:56
firstly J4bberw0ck I did do in to the school & politely asked the teacher to explain what had happened, it was once the teacher in question had finished shouting at me like she was speaking to a 2 year old & telling me how useless my child was that I decided to wipe the floor with her!
That wasn't what you said. You said "I went straight to the school and wiped the floor with the teacher". So either you did, or you didn't. You were polite, or you weren't.
But I wont sit back & let anyone not even a teacher speak to my child in a manner I dont feel appropriate.
Your privilege. I think though you might try to work on developing a sense of proportion.
as for keeping complaints for something that matters I think upsetting & ridiculing my child in front of 28 people worth the complaint.
Yes, children are people, but children being children, I think you're over-reacting. Unless of course there's something else to add that you didn't include before? :lol::lol:
what rights do teachers have when it comes to pupils?
can a teacher confiscate a childs possessions without parental consent?
Is a teacher allowed to call a child stupid or thick?
my children have come home on several occasions with stories from school & i often wonder if the school is always in the right.whats everyone elses experiences?
I suspect it would be 'Yes' to your first question and 'No' to the second. If an item is confiscated hen I suspect it was banned at the school and therefore liable to confiscation - but you should be able to collect it. No teacher should call a child (or adult) 'thick' or 'stupid'. But please do remember that teachers are only human and may fail in very trying moments... as we all can.
Ive actually had that experience!! A teacher did tell my child who has learning difficulties that they were thick & stupid & i went straight into school & wiped the floor with the teacher concerned! it turned out the teacher hadnt taken the time to read my childs file & didnt realise they had difficulties & apologised profusely. but even if my child didnt have problems i would still have gone into school to ask why they felt the need to call my child names, ive taught my children from an early age that name calling isnt tolerable so why should they accept it from a teacher!
My approach would have been to let things be and allow the teacher to have insulted my child. Being insulted is all part of life and being able to take an insult and walk away without losing one's temper is all about taking the road to being a mature adult. Waltzing into school with all guns blazing and fighting your child's battles isn't going to be good for your child in my opinion.
fingalmacool
07-Sep-07, 23:23
It might be said that there are too many excuses these days for one's child not to be the top of the class, i gladly went through school at a time when there wasn't to many pigeon holes that the bleeding heart liberals of this world would put you in if you were not blessed with the brains of Newton, in my day you were a dozy twonk and was treated accordingly (take note of the grammer)and the work you were given was up to the standard you could achieve, but the one clear difference of my day and now was that you were seen and not heard and you did what you were told by the teacher usually without a backward look, and if you did get into trouble, you usually deserved the punishment, and if you told your parents then you got a second punishment, nowadays the teachers are on a hiding to nothing, granted there are some teachers that are not worth speaking about, but while they may excell at there given subject they sadly lack in people working, but overall they are trying to do the best they can, and working with kids who in my opinion have big mouths and little back bone for when they are taken to task they shout for there mammy. HERE ENDITH THE RANT!
looking at the rights of teachers from another viewpoint completely here, but what about the teachers? who are verbally abused and often physically abused on a daily basis, what would parents do or say if these teachers said enough is enough I want to press charges. If a child is suspended for verbally or physically abusing a teacher how many parents have the manners to go and meet with that teacher and actually apologise. So many are quick to march up and complain if their child is spoken to in a way they don't see fit but do the teachers complain? I think teachers do an outstanding job and am glad they are there to give my child a chance of a good future life by imparting their knowledge. Just look at the case of the teacher who has been suspended because her husband dared to speak out about the behaviour of children in schools. I know someone who cleaned in the high school and told me one day she had to clean faeces out of a sink, that is absolutely filthy.
You're assuming, of course, that he or she did indeed call a child "thick" and that it wasn't something that just got blown out of all proportion?
That is a good point, the trouble is headteachers aren't allowed the luxury of discretion when dealing with teacher-pupil complaints. Even if a teacher is investigated and found to have done no wrong, they still feel humiliated or feel that others think they are guilty because the system can't stop these accusations growing out of hand before they become a big thing and everyone knows about it. I know of a teacher who told a pupil to take their coat off in class, there was a misinterpretation as to the wording of the request and the parent of the child accused the teacher of asking the child to strip naked. The teacher is back at work but she will worry about what others will think. I know that there is a strong possibility that the school will lose a good teacher. I don't think that teachers should be subjected to this kind of treatment.
what rights do teachers have when it comes to pupils?
can a teacher confiscate a childs possessions without parental consent?
Is a teacher allowed to call a child stupid or thick?
my children have come home on several occasions with stories from school & i often wonder if the school is always in the right.whats everyone elses experiences?I've no doubt things have changed quite a lot since my days at school but here goes.
Confiscations. Yes they did on a regular basis and usually with very good reason. (I never did get my knife with the three inch blade back :eek:)
The real question is what trouble was the pupil causing with whatever the teacher decided to confiscate? If the pupil either had an object or was doing something with an object which was not acceptable in school, then why should teachers not take the appropriate action to put an end to it.
Calling a child thick or stupid? Hell, is that all? My teachers were never so full of praise. Usually whatever comments teachers did make were usually well deserved and invariably accurate. If any of us had gone crying that a teacher had said something nasty to us we would have been laughed out of the school for being such a cry-baby. None of us would have humiliated ourselves by even considering such behaviour. And no, I've never met anybody who suffered any form of psychological damage, however slight!
I have no doubt that schools do make the odd mistake but I suspect that when they do it is because they haven't stopped some little brat from pushing their luck way too far!
If pupils behaved in a proper manner and obeyed the rules then there would be no problem at all.
I daren't have gone home moaning to my parents that I had been in trouble at school. Firstly because I would have got no sympathy at all and secondly I might well have been punished again for having misbehaved in the first place.
"I hadn't done nuffink!" translates the same in any language, "I am lying through my teeth and I think you are daft enough to believe every lie I tell you!"
.
That wasn't what you said. You said "I went straight to the school and wiped the floor with the teacher". So either you did, or you didn't. You were polite, or you weren't
Your privilege. I think though you might try to work on developing a sense of proportion.
.
Yes, children are people, but children being children, I think you're over-reacting. Unless of course there's something else to add that you didn't include before?
I said I went straight to the school which is exactly what I did I didnt leave it till the next day & I didnt wish to speak to them without it being in person & yes I did wipe the floor with them after id politely asked her to explain the problem, Im always polite! sorry I didnt realise id be scrutinised for not giving a full account:eek:
Yes it is my privilege & my duty to protect my child from any abuse
no im definately NOT over-reacting! I suppose you'd have to know my child & know that through their entire school education Ive never had anything but good comments made about them, theyve never been in trouble,never messed about in class & have never had a bad report. im very lucky that they have always given the school 100% despite their difficulties & for any teacher to call them thick or stupid because they havent taken the time to read a childs notes does make me mad!!
j4bberw0ck
08-Sep-07, 11:32
Ive never had anything but good comments made about them, theyve never been in trouble,never messed about in class & have never had a bad report. im very lucky that they have always given the school 100% despite their difficulties & for any teacher to call them thick or stupid because they havent taken the time to read a childs notes does make me mad!!
So what you mean is that the very first time a teacher (and let's keep the image for a moment of someone trying to teach a class of ill-disciplined savages with a few who really want to learn) gets it wrong (allegedly), you're in there, all guns blazing.
<sigh> What a irresponsible message you're sending. You're only doing it because it's like shooting fish in a barrel - the teacher has nowhere to go except down. Do you find you have a lot of anger?
I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree. But it goes a long way to explaining why there's a recruitment problem with teachers and head teachers.
Lolabelle
08-Sep-07, 11:40
So what you mean is that the very first time a teacher (and let's keep the image for a moment of someone trying to teach a class of ill-disciplined savages with a few who really want to learn) gets it wrong (allegedly), you're in there, all guns blazing.
<sigh> What a irresponsible message you're sending. You're only doing it because it's like shooting fish in a barrel - the teacher has nowhere to go except down. Do you find you have a lot of anger?
I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree. But it goes a long way to explaining why there's a recruitment problem with teachers and head teachers.
I have to disagree with you there j4bberw0ck, Brie has every right to defend her child in this case. If a teacher cannot teach each child to a certain degree on their own merit, they shouldn't be teaching. There are teachers who can teach a class full of ill - disciplined savages, and do a good job of it too. But calling any child names is not really a very good example for a teacher to set.
And really, what parent wouldn't feel the matter was personal and take it personally. I am realistic enough to know that I would.
He said to imagine that was the case for a moment. He did NOT say that all school kids were.
I would have no problem with a teacher calling me thick. I am mature enough to understand that (and have been for many years) teaching is a stressful job and that anything that is said in the classroom like that is forgotten there and then. I can see teaching as one of the most stressful jobs there is. And even though they do say such things occasionally I am willing to bed a lot of money that they spend a long time regretting saying it afterward.
j4bberw0ck
08-Sep-07, 13:46
He said to imagine that was the case for a moment. He did NOT say that all school kids were.
Thank you, Mr_Me. Reassuring to see that some folk are still capable of reading for comprehension! :lol:
Regards
J.
j4bberw0ck
08-Sep-07, 13:48
And really, what parent wouldn't feel the matter was personal and take it personally
Me - and a few other realists! :lol:
Mister Squiggle
08-Sep-07, 14:33
Because I'm a teacher, I've been watching this thread with great interest! :)
Basically, teachers confiscate property that interferes with lessons (toys, mobile phones, ipods, light sabres etc) and the usual practice I follow is to return this at the end of the school day with a stern warning about not bringing it in again. Some schools have written guidelines about what can be brought to school, but generally, common sense suggests anything expensive or noisy, or that's going to cause WWIII if it goes missing, is best left at home.
It's not that schools are being unreasonable or arbitrary, but rather that if the item is worth money it's too great a responsibility to have it hanging around the classroom, and if it's disrupting a lesson by being fiddled with under the desk then it's stopping the child from taking in the lesson and probably distracting other students too.
So Brie, yes teachers have rights to confiscate property but in my experience this just means handing it back at the end of the day and saying "Don't bring it to class again, OK?" (or words to that effect).
As for calling a child "thick"? Well, it's not something I've either done myself, witnessed or heard of. Most of us teachers are in there because we actually like children and want to do our best for them. We try to say things in the most positive terms possible and we try to model good behavior by speaking to our students with respect and encouragement.
On the other hand, I've had children call me names, I've had a child physically threaten me, I've had parents shouting the odds at me because I have sent a note home to advise them that homework was not done, I've seen colleagues abused and harangued to the point of quitting the profession... the list goes on.
But you know what? I still love my job. I do it because I think I'm doing something worthwhile and that I enjoy. I'd never call a child thick, nor would I take property off a child for no reason, nor have I ever set out to humiliate a child with learning problems. And despite the criticism and the arguments from angry parents, despite the lack of respect some children show and the amount of times I've had to dodge flying furniture, I still think it's a job worth doing. And the best way my job could be improved would be to have the full backing of parents and their trust that I'm acting in the best interests of their kids.
I agree with you mr squiggle but I do feel that teachers sometimes can get it wrong too.I don't honestly know what I would have done if it were my child that had been called thick, I certainly wouldn't be happy about it though!That said I really can't say what I would have done unless it was me that was in that position.Teachers can and do get it wrong and sometimes it is the pupils that push them to breaking point...I worked with children for a lot of years and know only too well how hard it can be at times and there was a lot of times I was nearly reduced to tears by a childs behaviour or remarks so I can understand in a way why a teacher can be pushed over the limit by a child but that said I still feel that nobody has the right to call anybody names of any sort and I am a firm believer in the saying that if you call somebody something often enough they start to belive it x
So what you mean is that the very first time a teacher (and let's keep the image for a moment of someone trying to teach a class of ill-disciplined savages with a few who really want to learn) gets it wrong (allegedly), you're in there, all guns blazing.
<sigh> What a irresponsible message you're sending. You're only doing it because it's like shooting fish in a barrel - the teacher has nowhere to go except down. Do you find you have a lot of anger?
I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree. But it goes a long way to explaining why there's a recruitment problem with teachers and head teachers.
firstly thankyou lolabelle & sunset for the support.
as for j4bberw0ck a teacher is there to teach children not abuse them!! they might get it wrong only once & call someone thick & stupid but with a vulnerable child with learning difficulties that one time might stick with them forever, it could make that child question why their putting in the effort if thats all theyd ever be.& if I hadnt gone into the school would that teacher have ever read their notes & realised my child had learning difficulties? maybe my actions made that teacher think twice before calling another child the same.
is that an irresponsible message ive sent out? I very much doubt it!
do I have alot of anger? only towards certain small minded people:roll:
j4bberw0ck
08-Sep-07, 19:48
firstly thankyou lolabelle & sunset for the support.
as for j4bberw0ck a teacher is there to teach children not abuse them!! they might get it wrong only once & call someone thick & stupid but with a vulnerable child with learning difficulties that one time might stick with them forever, it could make that child question why their putting in the effort if thats all theyd ever be.
.....and you job as parent is toisupport them through life's trials and tribulations. If you think that's the first and last time your child will be called (allegedly) stupid and thick then you're one of life's blithering optimists.
if I hadnt gone into the school would that teacher have ever read their notes & realised my child had learning difficulties? maybe my actions made that teacher think twice before calling another child the same.
Hah. In a pig's eye. All you did, in going in so bravely and "wiping the floor" with someone who couldn't fight back (my, I'm so in awe of your power!!!!) was give them reasons to doubt themselves, doubt why they're doing their job, and doubt your sanity and reasonableness. Teachers are human. Since I am too, I imagine they don't like feeling they're doing their level best and then being abused by some ill-informed whinger.
And I'm relieved to know your anger extends only to small-minded people. I'll sleep soundly in my bed.
.....and you job as parent is toisupport them through life's trials and tribulations. If you think that's the first and last time your child will be called (allegedly) stupid and thick then you're one of life's blithering optimists.
Hah. In a pig's eye. All you did, in going in so bravely and "wiping the floor" with someone who couldn't fight back (my, I'm so in awe of your power!!!!) was give them reasons to doubt themselves, doubt why they're doing their job, and doubt your sanity and reasonableness. Teachers are human. Since I am too, I imagine they don't like feeling they're doing their level best and then being abused by some ill-informed whinger.
And I'm relieved to know your anger extends only to small-minded people. I'll sleep soundly in my bed.
I agree with your opinion.
I quite agree, j4bberw0ck. It would seem that whilst parents should be allowed to behave in any abusive manner they wish towards teachers they, on the other hand, must never do anything which may cause parents or their children the slightest distress.
I wonder what the teacher's version of what happened to created the original situation would be? I notice that there has been no mention of ever bothering to ask any teacher for their version before "wiping the floor with him".
I am commenting mainly on just one part of this thread although I have tried so hard not to ! I told myself over and over again to take a deep breath, count to ten, and click on the next thread .
I can't do it . This has brought forth anger and tears, and I have lost respect for some of the people due to the way they have replied to Brie .
I am the Grandparent of a sweet young child who is globally delayed . Thankfully she has a teacher who took time to talk to the Mother before classes started, and was made aware of the disability . She is a wonderful teacher, however, if she were to call this child "thick" or any similar name, a complaint certainly would be made . The way of the complaint would depend on the attitude of the teacher when speaking to the parent .I do realize the teachers these days have a lot to deal with on a daily basis, and while I don't envy them, it is a profession they chose . The parent did not choose to have a delayed child, and they too are dealing with a daily problem and need the support of the teachers while the child is in school, not name calling .
One person asked if the child could be believed about the name calling ... well these children for the most part are so honest, you find yourself smiling at their truthfullness .
These parents have to fight ... yes I use the word fight because this is what they have to do many times over, to get the best for these children . It is very easy to sit back and state what you think is right, and how these parents should behave, and what they should overlook, but until you find yourself a parent, Grandparent, or guardian of a delayed child, you have no idea how much, how hard and who you have to 'fight' to obtain the best for your child . If it takes you going to a school with a complaint, so be it !
One of you wrote that you would save your complaints for something that mattered . Why do you think that calling a child with a disability "thick", doesn't matter ? Believe me, to the parent or Grandparent, it matters ... very much ! Taking name calling personally ... and to a child with a learning disability ...I would be taking it very personally !
Over-reacting was also used . Excuse me ? If the parents don't fight for these delayed children, tell me who will ?
Another said being insulted is all part of life and the teacher should have been allowed to insult the child ! Have you any idea the number of times these children have had to endure hearing themselves being called nasty names by both children and adults who don't know better, but you think it alright to hear it from a teacher ? I certainly don't think so, but we are talking about my Grandchild . Would you think the same if it were yours ?
As far as the statement about the teachers not being able to fight back, well neither can these children, which is why their parents have to, and, teachers "being abused by some ill-informed whinger" ... ill-informed about what I ask ? The name calling, the disability ? Protecting your child is not whinging ! Granted, I have pulled some of these words from earlier posts, but they are from your postings. I can't be bothered with quotes or using your names .
Angry, I guess I am, but mostly hurt by the lack of understanding and compassion shown to Brie . Perhaps she could have chosen better words and mentioned disability earlier, but many were quick to dismiss the words 'learning disability' in any case. Don't judge too quickly .
As far as confiscating an item, I have no problem with that as long as it is returned, along with a warning, and even a letter to be signed by the parent, that if it comes back, it will be taken permanently .
Brie, you have to stand up for your child whenever it is needed, no one else will do it for you . Name calling is not acceptable by anyone at anytime . I do support you, I know how hard it is . People who have not walked in your shoes just don't get it, and probably never will ! Shame really !
wen i was in school my mate had her fone taken off her and it was put to recieption n collected and was told ti collect it at the end of the day which she never got for days
I bet it was that evil English teacher..........
I have 3 girls - all grown up now, but my eldest and my youngest both sailed through school. You know the type, never seemed to take much notice, never seemed to do too much homework, yet always managed to get good grades and pass the exams.
My middle girl however..... never missed a day of school, (unlike her sisters) never seemed to have much in the way of common sense either.... was always the class clown, was always in trouble - she was also the one who got bullied, the one who said nothing when she was insulted.
She didn't come to much harm until one day, MY mum called her thick and stupid - and I exploded.
She wasn't officially labelled as having learning difficulties, but when she was 6 weeks old, her soft spot closed - the cartilage never fused, but it was something we had to monitor with the hospital until she was 4. And I think it had an effect. She was slower to develop, she was slower at everything as a baby, and she was slower at school.
But she tried.. oh, she could sit with a book for 2 hours straight, and still not remember, or take any of it in!
Now, saying all this, in her adult life, she is the ONLY one of the 3 to hold down a steady job (3 years and counting) - mundane or not, she enjoys her monday to friday 9 - 5 job, and she does very well!
If the adults in her life couldn't look out for her, and I guess, even protect her, then who else could she turn to? If I even thought a teacher would act in this way towards her, then yes, I too would have been visiting the teacher as well, like Brie did.
Lots of folk argue that a teachers job is hard enough, and yes it is, but come on folks.... THAT'S WHAT THEY TRAINED FOR!
They are taught how to deal with large groups of children - if they use verbal insults, then how do they teach our children that it's wrong?
This shouldn't be a tit for tat issue - THIS should be a lead by example issue - and clearly the teacher involved here couldn't do this. I'd like to see the teacher cope in a Birmingham Comprehensive!!
As for contraband items - well, we all know kids take bits to school, we all know they will be confiscated - that's part of growing up & a lesson many of us have learned ourselves, I bet!!
Brie, I think you did what you thought was the best for you - you have a lovely little family there, you protect them the best way you know how.
See you all next weekend.
Julie
xx
Just thought I would add my 2 pence.
I don't believe the teacher should have called the child "thick". Should teachers point out behaviour with appropriate labels - yes! If a child is acting irresponsibly, like a brat or just being plain silly they should be told but I would have problems having a child called "thick".
Teachers should and do have the right to confiscate items. I would imagine it is easiest to hand them back at the end of the day or the next morning but in certain circumstances I think it would be appropriate to bring the parents in to discuss the item and the disruption it caused in the class.
Brie, I am glad the teacher apologised to you. From your initial post it looks like your child has had items confiscated as well and I have to ask, did you apologise to the teacher for allowing your child to bring in an item that was causing enough disruption to the class that it had to be confiscated?
j4bberw0ck
09-Sep-07, 09:46
Before we reach for the tissues again, let's look at this chronologically:
1. Brie asks a question about a teacher calling a child "thick" and says "she wiped the floor with the teacher".
2. A number of respondents questioned the aggression implicit in that statement and added that it was "regrettable" the teacher used the term.
3. Trying to drum up support, or better explain, Brie now adds that the child has learning difficulties and that actually, she was polite and sweet and lovely until the teacher was aggressive to her, when she "wiped the floor" with the teacher (again!).
The question here, jsherris, brie, bigjean and sunset, and anyone else confused, isn't whether Brie has a child with learning difficulties and whether she deserves sympathy.
The question is, how does one go about making a complaint? Polite and firm? Or screeching harridan mode, "wiping the floor" with someone who has to put up with kids all day every day, and who, as a teacher tells us, is very likely dealing with many children who have little or no respect. Someone who, being human, might have made the mistake of not reading file. And may I stress that I have personal and recent experience of just such a thing, but I didn't feel the need to "wipe the floor" with anyone - instead we talked to the school who leaned over backwards to help simply because we gave them the respect they deserve. I have nothing but praise for the way the individual teaching staff responded.
If you read the replies here more carefully instead of switching off brain at the words "learning difficulties" you'll see that no one has criticised Bruie's right to bring an incident to the school's attention. Many of us have questioned her right to "wipe the floor" with a teacher, because she doesn't have one, any more than I have the right to walk up to someone I don't know and start yelling at them.
And when teachers tell us about the difficulties of behaviour and attitude they face, where do the children learn it from? From irresponsible parents who go screeching down to the school to "wipe the floor" with teachers - that's one place. don't you think?
The problem seems to me to be with parents with a head full of "rights" and who lack the good old fashioned attributes of manners and common sense when it comes to exercising them. When on earth did it enter people's heads that they needed, and have the right, to "wipe the floor" with teachers?
Tell me, how long will it take for terms like 'delayed child', 'mentally challenged kid', 'special needs kid' in polite English, become as derogatory as 'imbecile', 'moron' 'and a 'spastic' which were once themselves perfectly acceptable medical terms for someone who has learning difficulties?
To me this event is a non-event and this thread has degenerated into one of semantics.
Before we reach for the tissues again, let's look at this chronologically:
1. Brie asks a question about a teacher calling a child "thick" and says "she wiped the floor with the teacher".
2. A number of respondents questioned the aggression implicit in that statement and added that it was "regrettable" the teacher used the term.
3. Trying to drum up support, or better explain, Brie now adds that the child has learning difficulties and that actually, she was polite and sweet and lovely until the teacher was aggressive to her, when she "wiped the floor" with the teacher (again!).
The question here, jsherris, brie, bigjean and sunset, and anyone else confused, isn't whether Brie has a child with learning difficulties and whether she deserves sympathy.
The question is, how does one go about making a complaint? Polite and firm? Or screeching harridan mode, "wiping the floor" with someone who has to put up with kids all day every day, and who, as a teacher tells us, is very likely dealing with many children who have little or no respect. Someone who, being human, might have made the mistake of not reading file. And may I stress that I have personal and recent experience of just such a thing, but I didn't feel the need to "wipe the floor" with anyone - instead we talked to the school who leaned over backwards to help simply because we gave them the respect they deserve. I have nothing but praise for the way the individual teaching staff responded.
If you read the replies here more carefully instead of switching off brain at the words "learning difficulties" you'll see that no one has criticised Bruie's right to bring an incident to the school's attention. Many of us have questioned her right to "wipe the floor" with a teacher, because she doesn't have one, any more than I have the right to walk up to someone I don't know and start yelling at them.
And when teachers tell us about the difficulties of behaviour and attitude they face, where do the children learn it from? From irresponsible parents who go screeching down to the school to "wipe the floor" with teachers - that's one place. don't you think?
The problem seems to me to be with parents with a head full of "rights" and who lack the good old fashioned attributes of manners and common sense when it comes to exercising them. When on earth did it enter people's heads that they needed, and have the right, to "wipe the floor" with teachers?
Pompous is the word that springs to mind here... and no, I'm not confused.
Mister Squiggle
09-Sep-07, 10:40
One of the previous posts mentions that
"Lots of folk argue that a teachers job is hard enough, and yes it is, but come on folks.... THAT'S WHAT THEY TRAINED FOR!"
It also goes on to state that teachers should lead by example and questions whether this teacher would survive in a "Birmingham Comprehensive".
Well, let's address this in light of my previous post on this thread:
Yes, I was trained to teach. I'm trained to deal with large groups of children, a nurse is trained to deal with the injured and ill, a fire fighter is trained to aid and assist in emergency situations.
However, in all these occupations (and probably many others) we are often confronted with angry, abusive people (be they children or adults) who make a difficult job even more so. Occupations such as teaching, nursing etc where you are dealing with large groups of people with an enormous range of needs can bring you into contact with the best, and sadly the worst, of human behaviour.
I have worked with student teachers on their final placements in schools and I'm constantly aware that, whilst training in educational methods and learning about childrens' development is a fundamental part of the course, we are also having to equip new teachers with the skills to deal with volatile and often potentially dangerous students and their families. It's a pretty daunting task for a 21 year old student teacher, who loves children and wants to teach with a passion, to be confronted for the first time by an enraged parent, or a child armed with a chair (and yes, I've had to disarm children more than once in my career). All the training in the world should not make this kind of behaviour acceptable, any more than it should make it seem "just part of the job".
I agree entirely that teachers should lead by example and, as my previous post states, I and my colleagues speak fairly and equally to the children in our care. Obviously, in Brie's case, something has gone very wrong but I can honestly say, by working in classrooms with other teachers and in observing student teachers, I am constantly amazed at the patience and kindness of staff. We do our best to model respect, to praise and encourage, often against incredible odds. Yes, jsherris, that's what I was trained for.
If, in Brie's case, something abusive has been said to her child, that is a matter for the school and Brie to come to an agreement on and to deal with. I and no one I work with would condone the actions of any teacher who may have said something inappropriate to Brie's child and I can completely understand her anxiety and anger - my own children are in primary school and I can imagine her position. What I cannot imagine is how so many people are willing to take up arms against me and my colleagues, to automatically assume we are in the wrong, to belittle our efforts and suggest we'd never survive in a "rougher" school, as if such an arbitrary benchmark is needed to weed out the real teachers from the less-than able ones.
Why is it anyone who is on j4bberw0ck's side is automatically being accused of being prejudiced towards mentally disabled people? No one said anything about saying this to a mentally disabled child. That just seems to be something the 'other side' has picked up to strengthen their arguement.
I suggest that everyone just forgets everthing that has been said and starts the debate all over again? No assumptions. Just pure fact.
Why is it anyone who is on j4bberw0ck's side is automatically being accused of being prejudiced towards mentally disabled people? No one said anything about saying this to a mentally disabled child. That just seems to be something the 'other side' has picked up to strengthen their arguement.
I suggest that everyone just forgets everthing that has been said and starts the debate all over again? No assumptions. Just pure fact.
Well said, Mr Me! Some of us responded to the OP, when nothing had been said about a child with special needs. Even then, I know I said that I did not approve of a teacher calling any child "thick".
I'm glad that education had moved on from how it was when I was a child, to how it was when my kids started school in the 80s. For one thing, I don't agree with corporal punishment.
I have no problem at all with items being confiscated.
So these are my answers to the original questions.
However, I do think it's important that parents support teachers and the work they do. Imo, there is a correlation between the way some parents allow their kids to see their own lack of respect for teachers and other adults, and the number of kids growing up with no repect for anybody.
The two principal things I have tried to bring my own kids up with are kindness (do as you would be done by) and good manners, and I have tried to lead by example!
j4bberw0ck
09-Sep-07, 11:40
Pompous is the word that springs to mind here... and no, I'm not confused.
I've often wondered if accusations of pomposity aren't the last refuge of those with without a leg to stand on, and with nothing to say :lol: . I thought I'd gone to some trouble to separate out the issues of children with learning difficulties and the way some parents feel they can treat teachers, but evidently I need to work on simplifying it even further.
<sigh>
Brie, I am glad the teacher apologised to you. From your initial post it looks like your child has had items confiscated as well and I have to ask, did you apologise to the teacher for allowing your child to bring in an item that was causing enough disruption to the class that it had to be confiscated?
one of my children did have an item confiscated yes, I completely agreed with the schools reason for confiscation I just wasnt to sure on how long they usually keep things for as its now been 2 weeks.
[quote=j4bberw0ck]
Hah. In a pig's eye. All you did, in going in so bravely and "wiping the floor" with someone who couldn't fight back (my, I'm so in awe of your power!!!!) was give them reasons to doubt themselves, doubt why they're doing their job, and doubt your sanity and reasonableness. Teachers are human. Since I am too, I imagine they don't like feeling they're doing their level best and then being abused by some ill-informed whinger.
go back & read why I wiped the floor with them! I didnt go in all guns blazing to have a arguement with them! & why couldnt they fight back? because they knew they were in the wrong!
I certainly never abused the teacher i didnt retort to name calling & i sure as hell wasnt ill-informed!
all i can say j4bberw0ck is youve obviously taken it upon yourself to attack me for something I did for my own childs wellfare & you have also resorted to name calling in your frustration! maybe you should ask yourself if YOU have alot of anger??
As BIG JEAN said until youve walked in my shoes you will never understand:(
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