View Full Version : Jumped or Jamp?
Yet again I have been trying to correct my children on their use of the English language.
My youngest son was telling a story of how he jumped of a wall and hurt himself. My eldest son (who is ten) said, "you never jumped, you jamp". He insisted on arguing that it was correct and I eventually got him to try to find it in the dictionary, to which he stated that the dictionary must be wrong or out of date as jamp sounds better than jumped and all his friends use it. I have to admit that my dictionary is a good few years old now and I am maybe the one who is out of date.
It's got me wondering and I'm off now to buy an up to date dictionary.
i would say jumped but thats just me :roll:
Metalattakk
24-Aug-07, 09:49
There is no such word as 'jamp'. It is an utter abomination.
I would question the teachers here - the kids must be using this word in class. Are their teachers correcting them?
Or, do the kids know fine well that it is wrong, and defer from using it in class?
I never heard jamp til i lived in Caithness but its in common use there.. My eldest lad says jamp all the time is it a dialect thing?
Haha... Proper English = definitely Jumped!
But dialect.... Jamp is used in North Wales, so maybe it's migrating across!
And Erli... psst... don't go buying a dictionary, you have the biggest one in the world at your fingertips right now!
Julie
Must be a dialect thing, its not even in the Dictionary of Scots words
http://www.dsl.ac.uk/dsl/
I never heard jamp til i lived in Caithness but its in common use there.. My eldest lad says jamp all the time is it a dialect thing?
Same here, I am always correcting their grammar. They hate it but that is just tough. Is grammar ignored in school these days as well as spelling?
..
Golach, there's mention of it here, in the comments section....
http://www.bbc.co.uk/wales/northwest/sites/voices/pages/research.shtml
I never heard jamp until I moved to Caithness and even then it was only in the younger generation so I don't think it is a dialect thing but more of you young person's slang.
On a similar note does anyone else feel like pulling their hair out when they hear someone say "he learned me how to do that"?
I never heard jamp until I moved to Caithness and even then it was only in the younger generation so I don't think it is a dialect thing but more of you young person's slang.
On a similar note does anyone else feel like pulling their hair out when they hear someone say "he learned me how to do that"?
Tristan,
I correct peoples grammar all the time, apart from slang, which I'm terribly guilty of myself!
My pet hate is when Nikki talks about Christee-uns... Oh, I ALWAYS correct her with , No, it's Chrischyuns!
Tsk! [lol]
I never heard jamp until I moved to Caithness and even then it was only in the younger generation so I don't think it is a dialect thing but more of you young person's slang.
On a similar note does anyone else feel like pulling their hair out when they hear someone say "he learned me how to do that"?
I would agree that it must be "dialect slang".
What's even worse, Tristan, is when you hear someone say "he teached me how to do that"
I thought it was just me. Another one that drives me mad is, an Americanism - he dove into the water. No he didn't he dived into it.
Or is it just me.
I never heard the "word" jamp until I moved to Caithness. My son picked it up at school and it's ingrained in him now.
Metalattakk
24-Aug-07, 11:41
Geo, every time he says it, ask him to repeat what he said until he says 'jumped' instead of 'jamp'.
"I'm sorry son, what was that you said? It makes no sense to me."
If the teachers don't/won't teach them, then we have to pick up the baton and run with it ourselves.
Yeah I do that but it's become so natural to him it will take a while. He's just finished school so maybe I will have more success now. :)
There is no such word as 'jamp'. It is an utter abomination.
I would question the teachers here - the kids must be using this word in class. Are their teachers correcting them?
Or, do the kids know fine well that it is wrong, and defer from using it in class?
That's it blame te teachers!!!! I guess the children have picked it up long before school, use at at home and in the holidays and have never been corrected by the people who brought them into this world and looked for someone to blame for all their ills.
Either see the light or take a running 'jamp'.
In fact a little bit of rummaging and it turns out "jamp" is a scots word - used by RM Ballantyne and is shown in a ballad from 1860 ish called " Lamentation on the loss of the whittle"
It was also used by Lewis Carroll in "sylvie and Bruno" around the 1890's i think
It appears to be of dundee/perthshire origin but i have seen it referred to as shetlandic in origin too.
Isnt this a natural part of the development of language though? it might be "wrong" today but then it might be "right" tomorrow. Language is a living growing and changing beast. It doesnt stand still and it is not a respector of mums and dads, grandparents or anyone else. The scots language is a rich and resonant language in its own right - its apparently NOT simply a dialect of english , in fact a liguist friend of mine said Scots is related to english in the way portugese is related to spanish - of the same root but not the same language. If your child says "jamp" instead of jumped you maybe should celebrate their "scottishness" instead of crrecting them - although i can see that might not always be very popular [lol]
Margaret M.
24-Aug-07, 14:40
If the teachers don't/won't teach them, then we have to pick up the baton and run with it ourselves.
I would never expect a teacher to take the lead role in correcting slang -- chances are children use slang more frequently outside the school than in the classroom. Parents should always have the baton and not assume that it is the teacher's responsibility to teach their children everything.
In fact a little bit of rummaging and it turns out "jamp" is a scots word - used by RM Ballantyne and is shown in a ballad from 1860 ish called " Lamentation on the loss of the whittle"
It was also used by Lewis Carroll in "sylvie and Bruno" around the 1890's i think
It appears to be of dundee/perthshire origin but i have seen it referred to as shetlandic in origin too.
Isnt this a natural part of the development of language though? it might be "wrong" today but then it might be "right" tomorrow. Language is a living growing and changing beast. It doesnt stand still and it is not a respector of mums and dads, grandparents or anyone else. The scots language is a rich and resonant language in its own right - its apparently NOT simply a dialect of english , in fact a liguist friend of mine said Scots is related to english in the way portugese is related to spanish - of the same root but not the same language. If your child says "jamp" instead of jumped you maybe should celebrate their "scottishness" instead of crrecting them - although i can see that might not always be very popular [lol]
Yes Squidge, our language is developing all the time. In Shakespeare's day you would not have found the words doesn't, couldn't, shan't and can't but today they are in every day use.
I must admit I am a bit of a grammar and spelling freak myself and the one that definitely bugs me most is "definately".....:mad:
I never heard jamp until I moved to Caithness and even then it was only in the younger generation so I don't think it is a dialect thing but more of you young person's slang.
On a similar note does anyone else feel like pulling their hair out when they hear someone say "he learned me how to do that"?
I HATE THAT....I was taught therefore I learned....a family member says it and I have found myself gritting my teeth...
Yes Squidge, our language is developing all the time. In Shakespeare's day you would not have found the words doesn't, couldn't, shan't and can't but today they are in every day use.
I must admit I am a bit of a grammar and spelling freak myself and the one that definitely bugs me most is "definately".....:mad:
Torvaig - every year, I make the same NYE resolution... NOT to buy goods in a shop that openly displays truly terrible spelling mistakes!
I've seen a hotel advertising 'Spar' bathrooms... witnessed many Off Licenses (& 1 Off Lisence) seen a 'half pryce sale' and witnessed a 'Ten Per Sent Off' sale!
But my biggest blood boiler has to be the 'Book & Stationary' Sale!
Grrrr!
im wi ye's lot, i hate improper grammer too [lol]
George Brims
24-Aug-07, 17:18
I thought it was just me. Another one that drives me mad is, an Americanism - he dove into the water. No he didn't he dived into it. Or is it just me.
I live in America and I SCUBA dive - it drives me nuts and I hear it a lot! The other one is "spit" as the past tense of "spit" as in Frank Sinatra's "My Way". Over here "spat" is that old fashioned shoe cover thing. However I take solace in the fact that according to his widow, Ol' Blue Eyes absolutely detested that song, so it annoyed both of us at the same time!
George Brims
24-Aug-07, 17:21
Torvaig - every year, I make the same NYE resolution... NOT to buy goods in a shop that openly displays truly terrible spelling mistakes!
I've seen a hotel advertising 'Spar' bathrooms... witnessed many Off Licences (& 1 Off Lisence) seen a 'half pryce sale' and witnessed a 'Ten Per Sent Off' sale!
But my biggest blood boiler has to be the 'Book & Stationary' Sale!
Grrrr!
Mine is the "Greengrocer's apostrophe" (Banana's 10p a pound). When I was a student I used to pass a chip shop near Murrayfield when taking the bus to see my girlfriend. They had huge orange signs with black text that said "Curry's" and "Pizza's". I was always tempted by the first one to go in and ask to see some TV sets.
Aaldtimer
24-Aug-07, 17:36
You would think the BBC could do better than this! http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/north_east/6962645.stm
The Pepsi Challenge
24-Aug-07, 18:35
Good grammar? Good spelling? It all depends on who the audience is. Or who it is intended for.
Aaldtimer
24-Aug-07, 19:27
Ah, I see the BBC have corrected their mis-spelling.
George Brims
24-Aug-07, 19:55
Now you tell me. I must have peered at that article for 25 minutes!
cullbucket
24-Aug-07, 20:32
My personal favourite American word..... winningest
http://www.m-w.com/dictionary/winningest
Ah semantics!
Last week I jumped into the river!
This week I thought 'I will jamp again'
Both times,..I got WET!;)
Karia
Aaldtimer
24-Aug-07, 20:58
Now you tell me. I must have peered at that article for 25 minutes!
Sorry George, I just checked back on it then. It was originally "Solider" in the headline...and again in the article! [disgust]
Lolabelle
24-Aug-07, 23:50
I hate this new one that seems to have popped up in the last couple of years, originating with the African-Americans I think.
"He's Disrespectin me"
Ahhh, disrespect is not a verb!!!!!!! [mad]
My OH reminded me recently that we split up after going out for 2 years. We got back together a few weeks later. This is what happened (in revisionist grammar).
He damp me after I came home late one night. One late night, and he damp me! Can you believe that? I am a very physical person so I thamp him. He fell backwards and bamp his head against the door and passed out. I panicked and ran downstairs to my bike. The front tyre was flat so I pamp it frantically, I jamp on it and cycled away into the night.
He always did say I could like it or lump it. So I lamp it..........
Lolabelle
25-Aug-07, 07:29
My OH reminded me recently that we split up after going out for 2 years. We got back together a few weeks later. This is what happened (in revisionist grammar).
He damp me after I came home late one night. One late night, and he damp me! Can you believe that? I am a very physical person so I thamp him. He fell backwards and bamp his head against the door and passed out. I panicked and ran downstairs to my bike. The front tyre was flat so I pamp it frantically, I jamp on it and cycled away into the night.
He always did say I could like it or lump it. So I lamp it..........
I am laughing so hard that I can't see to type for the tears streaming down my face. [lol]
Dave loved it too.
Oooohhh, I just can't stop reading it and giggling.
northener
25-Aug-07, 09:02
Nice one, Crayola.
I think we are all part of the evolution/problem if you think about it.
If you were to read any of the great 19th century novels and look at how the sentances are constructed, you would find them quite long-winded compared to a modern literary style. The Victorians would probably have a literary fit if they were to read a C21st novel.
When we speak, our language is constantly modified to communicate with the person or group we are speaking with. For example, how many people do you know who have a 'telephone voice' which bears no resemblance to how they talk to their friends?
A lot of us constantly use acronyms and abbreviations that would be unheard of a few years ago - IMHO. Also, words evolve and go in and out of favour. 'Fall' is a good example. This is always labelled as an Americanism for the word Autumn. In fact Fall was in common use in the English language in Britain during the C16th and C17th.
Being Northern English, I always used to get told off for dropping the t's in words like 'butter' and 'mutter', saying 'chimley' for chimney and ending all my sentences with 'Yer know'. I still drop back into a broad Yorkshire accent if I'm talking to someone from my area!
'Can you borrow me a fiver' - AAARGH!
My OH reminded me recently that we split up after going out for 2 years. We got back together a few weeks later. This is what happened (in revisionist grammar).
He damp me after I came home late one night. One late night, and he damp me! Can you believe that? I am a very physical person so I thamp him. He fell backwards and bamp his head against the door and passed out. I panicked and ran downstairs to my bike. The front tyre was flat so I pamp it frantically, I jamp on it and cycled away into the night.
He always did say I could like it or lump it. So I lamp it..........
Oh Crayola [lol] this is just so funny ............ [lol]
I stand corrected 'dove ' is in the dictionary. It does say mostly US though and it is still 'dived' in my house!
Thanks Betty
Another one I hear on T.V., :confused usually American chat shows is "Aks" as in " I aks him not to do that". The word is ask..."I ask you!"
helenwyler
25-Aug-07, 14:09
Hi mccaugm!
"aks" is West Indian. It would seem odd down here to hear someone of West Indian stock saying "ask"!!
The use of ACCESS as a verb just makes me fair dirl with frustration.
Nobody accessses anything!!eg "You can access it on www.----- etc" Piffle and nonsense!
You get access to something or gain access to it. eg "You can get access to it at www.-----etc". Access is a noun for goodness sake. Yet another Americanism plagues our language. Total despair on this one.
Hi mccaugm!
"aks" is West Indian. It would seem odd down here to hear someone of West Indian stock saying "ask"!!
Hehe, I was brought up in London, spent a few years in Brixton & moved to Kent once the damage was done... it took my Mum years to stop me saying 'aks'... even now, when I'm 'on one' according to the girls, I still say it!
It's just one of those childhood legacies I guess - and on the subject of West Indian culture.. it's Notting Hill carnival this weekend, & we can't go because Andy has 2 telephone interviews on Monday....... :cry:
Mine is the "Greengrocer's apostrophe" (Banana's 10p a pound). When I was a student I used to pass a chip shop near Murrayfield when taking the bus to see my girlfriend. They had huge orange signs with black text that said "Curry's" and "Pizza's". I was always tempted by the first one to go in and ask to see some TV sets.
Ironic that the chip shop sign "Curry's" is correct for Currys.
Metalattakk
25-Aug-07, 15:13
For goodness' sake.
The plural of "curry" is "curries".
For goodness' sake.
The plural of "curry" is "curries".
I was going to post that & you beat me to it! ;)
The use of ACCESS as a verb just makes me fair dirl with frustration.
Nobody accessses anything!!eg "You can access it on www.----- (http://www.-----) etc" Piffle and nonsense!
You get access to something or gain access to it. eg "You can get access to it at www.-----etc". Access is a noun for goodness sake. Yet another Americanism plagues our language. Total despair on this one.From the Oxford English Dictionary:
access
noun 1 the means or opportunity to approach or enter a place. 2 the right or opportunity to use something or see someone. 3 retrieval of information stored in a computers memory. 4 an attack or outburst of an emotion: an access of rage.
verb 1 gain access to; make accessible. 2 approach or enter (a place).
ORIGIN Latin accessus, from accedere come to.Evidently, it's a noun and a verb and it's derived from the Latin verb 'accedere'. That's good enough for me.
Aaldtimer
26-Aug-07, 02:27
One that really gets up my nose is the posters who use "of" instead of "have".
Do they really believe that's correct, or is it "texting" English?
Or when hubby talks nostalgically about his 'Scalelectric' set.....[evil]
Maybe that's why he became a sparky! ;)
Speaking of Jamp, Van Halen have got back together.
when she was still in primary school, my daughter showed me an essay for which she had a really glowing report. She used the word 'jamp' with no comment from the teacher. I asked the teacher about it later and she replied, 'well, I don't know what to do - all the kids seem to use it,'
The one that really gets me though, is the use of the word 'of' instead of 'have'. Like, 'I should of done that' I know when spoken it sounds kinda like should've, but to WRITE it????
Must admit I have been known to use jamp...must be a Caithness thing :) I then started to question myself as to whether it really was a word or not and got myself so confused I gave up!Great to know that it isn't really a word after all lol.Mind you I am the person who wrote "if" about 10 times one day because it didn't look right so if I can get confused about the spelling of if I really have no place to talk about whether a word is real or not :)x
Well I am going to stick up for all the users of JAMP. Its a great word he he I have used it since I was a child, much to my mums disgust. She is a primary teacher and still to this day she corrects me that its not an actual word! I remember her making me look it up in a dictionary and when I couldnt find it I simply wrote it at the bottom off the page in my best handwritting and said that I had found it!! ha ha ha
south view 7
26-Aug-07, 19:57
In caithness you get words that are used in different localls,ie Thurso,Wick,Lybster,and jamp is a lybster word.
Read an article in one of today newspapers, about the differing words or names for mealtimes in Scotland and do they differ greatly? In the farm working communities that I grew up in, in Perthshire mostly, the word for the Midday meal was Denner or dinner and the evening meal was your Tea. Not Lunch and Dinner as the more well spoken amongst us.
Sic the old joke about Edinburgh Folk...."Come in, You'll have had your Tea"
I always have problems with bread rolls.
In the south, they are rolls, slightly flattened, then they are baps...
Here they are barms, whatever size or shape - in Middlesbrough, they are bread buns, although a bun is something you put icing & cherry on top of!
In Leeds you would probably ask for a bread cake. At a baker’s in Derby you might be offered acob and on a visit to Coventry you might ask for a batch.
Tea Cakes are the norm in certain parts of Lancashire - no currants though! And around Tameside, they are known as muffins....
I'm sticking to sandwiches!
why is it that a mouse becomes mice but a house becomes houses?
or sheep stay sheep but a jeep becomes jeeps?:confused
I stand corrected 'dove ' is in the dictionary.
Pigeon type bird and highly moisturising soap used by BEEG wifies apparently ;o)
when she was still in primary school, my daughter showed me an essay for which she had a really glowing report. She used the word 'jamp' with no comment from the teacher. I asked the teacher about it later and she replied, 'well, I don't know what to do - all the kids seem to use it,'
The one that really gets me though, is the use of the word 'of' instead of 'have'. Like, 'I should of done that' I know when spoken it sounds kinda like should've, but to WRITE it????
The concept of being a teacher is to teach. If a child is incorrect in what he or she has written, the teacher should acknowledge the mistake and mark the paper accordingly.
I am currently in college and got an exam paper returned to me marked in green as opposed to red or black. Apparently having mistakes marked in green is less threatening. :eek:
Lolabelle
27-Aug-07, 13:18
[quote=Thumper;262467]Mind you I am the person who wrote "if" about 10 times one day because it doesn't look right "
I do that, but my word is "was", it never looks right.
I know that Jamp is not really correct, but I have kind of grown quite fond of it. I think I will adopt it, and maybe start a new fad here in Oz. [lol]
According to legend, Jim Baxter et al "hamp" England 3-2 in 1967.
Well I have to say I am absolutely astonished! I read the first post in this thread late on Saturday and had never heard jamp and couldn't believe that people thought it was a Caithness thing. On Sunday evening after my children had played at a new really quite good play park we were driving home and my son was raving about all the things he had done when he said, "Did you see when I JAMP on that big thing......" to my daughter. I could not believe my ears - spooky or what after never having ever heard this word used. I told a colleague today and she thought it was a Perthshire thing as she had heard it a lot. I must say that I will be correcting him every time I hear it as I hate hearing words wrongly used and feel it is my job to do so. Also poor marks for that teacher who let it go in an essay. Fine, say that the work was great but still point out the errors!
Hmm if its a scots word is it really "wrong" or is it just different?
Hmm if its a scots word is it really "wrong" or is it just different?
Slang is OK between peers but in an essay its wrong and the error should be pointed out.
Teachers do need to correct parts of an essay but I am not sure if it is possible to correct everything - there is always room for improvement. I would imagine with so much texting and msning going on that many essays are riddled with errors. I would think that if parents have let all that pass before handing it in that teachers would have to choose their battles - otherwise the paper would be full of red (or green) marks.
As for jamp other than a reference that squidge came up with 200 odd years ago other than Caithness (and some others have heard it elsewhere) it does not sound like it is in common "Scots" usage. I would hope that teachers would allow local and Scots words in a story or poem without criticism but in an essay? No! Like it or not we are in and English (and I shudder to say an American) world and essays need to reflect the accepted academic form.
I went to a grammar school, & would be corrected for punctuation, spelling, paragraph length.... you name it!
Even words like haven't would get a red line & have not written above!
At one point when I was about 13, my form mistress even gave me a wide nib fountain pen & made me perform daily handwriting tasks to tidy up my illegible scrawl.
It 'sort of' worked, except for when I'm making notes & then I defy anyone to translate! [lol]
Slang is OK between peers but in an essay its wrong and the error should be pointed out.
Scots language isnt slang though - its a language in its own right and writing an essay is also about creativity too remember. I would hope that teachers encouraged that bit as well.
And if we dont allow jamp would we not allow peelywally or glaikit or greeeting or other scots words to be written? And if we dont then how do our scottish children understand their written language both ancient ( burns) and modern (irvine welsh)
Scots language isnt slang though - its a language in its own right and writing an essay is also about creativity too remember. I would hope that teachers encouraged that bit as well.
And if we dont allow jamp would we not allow peelywally or glaikit or greeeting or other scots words to be written? And if we dont then how do our scottish children understand their written language both ancient ( burns) and modern (irvine welsh)
In full agreement Squidge, if the Scots tongue is treated as slang, we would lose all such literary greats as Castlegreen's Tatties an' Herreen' and such wonderful writtings as Lewis Grassick Gibbon and Sunset Song set in the Mearns and written in the Doric.
In full agreement Squidge, if the Scots tongue is treated as slang, we would lose all such literary greats as Castlegreen's Tatties an' Herreen' and such wonderful writtings as Lewis Grassick Gibbon and Sunset Song set in the Mearns and written in the Doric.
I feel that when in an English class, English should be written. Not American English, not slang Scots, not text language until children have the basics other "styles" should not apply.
On another note re Doric, I had a boss once who spoke broad Doric/Aberdeen, she gave me a huge row for something one day, I have no idea what I had done or what my "punishment" was as I have no idea what she said.
Scots isnt a "style" nor is it a slang nor is it a dialect - its a language... perhaps if we all remembered and took pride in it then the scottish parliament would put as much effort into promoting it as they do in promoting Gaelic. If a child included a gaelic word in an essay i would expect a teacher to be interested rather than dishing out a punishment excercise. I would however also expect the teacher to check if the child knew the "english" word and whether they had used the gaelic deliberately. I would not expect a teacher to correct spoken scots.
Ironically there is more money spent in Northern Ireland promoting and protecting the scots language than there is in Scotland.
I have a singing teacher who speaks doric and i can understand her perfectly well and if she uses a word that i dont understand i ask her. Thats how we learn - language is a fascinating thing its like a swelling sea - ever changing and the feel of some scots words in your mouth is fabulous, poetic and creative - many of the words create the feeling better than any english word
Tugmistress
29-Aug-07, 11:03
I corrected the neep last night *again* when she used 'Jamp' and we started to discuss it, she is totally convinced she has been corrected by an adult somewhere when she used 'Jumped' and was told to use 'Jamp' [evil]
I used a slightly different word to illustrate my point, "i bumped into the door" NOT " i bamp into the door" and she seemed to understand but is still convinced that 'Jamp' is a word [evil]
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