View Full Version : Another sex attacker goes free
Boozeburglar
23-Aug-07, 19:31
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/bristol/6960166.stm
This guy admits to having perpetrated abuse on multiple victims, some as young as eighteen months!
Should he have escaped a prison sentence because he had undergone 'therapy'?
I don't think so.
Probably compensating for the 12-year old boy arrested, charged, finger-printed, DNA'd for throwing a cocktail sausage at his neighbour - they'll probably throw the book at him.
anneoctober
23-Aug-07, 20:47
Have I missed something here? I thought the law was in place to protect the innocent? A changed man , have they never heard of the saying " a leopard never changes his spots"? IMO he's telling the authorities what they want hear and doing enough to keep himself out of prison. How on earth are these poor victims and their families going to cope now with such a public slap in the face?
Of course he should be punished,and almost all of these people reoffend, i dont know what it is with them, they just cant seem to stop themselves . they even work themselves into a position where they are in jobs near children.
so he has seen and mended his evil ways has he. well i certainly hope so.
What beggers belief is that his wife accompanied him out of the court.
hell any normal woman would have washed her hands of him.
still i suppose it takes all kinds. [disgust]
Lolabelle
23-Aug-07, 22:28
He should go to prison for the crimes he committed. It's good that he has had therapy (whether that does any good or not, I can't comment because I don't know) if it did work, he won't do it again.
But he still pay for what he has already done.
And I bet he doesn't get put out of the Jehovah's Witness church either, scriptually, he should. [evil]
He should go to prison for the crimes he committed. It's good that he has had therapy (whether that does any good or not, I can't comment because I don't know) if it did work, he won't do it again.
But he still pay for what he has already done.
And I bet he doesn't get put out of the Jehovah's Witness church either, scriptually, he should. [evil]
I don't understand why the media have draged his religion into this though. I saw a clip on the BBC news tonight, and was very disappointed at the focus being on his choosen religion - to me, it doesn't matter what faith you follow, such crimes should not be tolerated, period. I appreciate the implication that he used his position within his church to abuse youngsters, I still don't see that as justification for the press laying it on thick regarding him being a Jehova's Witness. We don't hear many other sex offenders having their religious beliefs highlighted so prominently. I fear incidents like this will only serve to fuel existing pre-conceptions regarding JW's and similar groups.:confused
Of the votes in, three people (or 11% of the total) don't think he should have been sent to prison. Could one of you explain your reasoning? :confused
Due to what were going through at the moment ( some of you know ) i would like to hang him in public !
Funny how the man involved with my family has "gone missing " when he was already on the sex offenders register ! The police have no idea where he is after a month of looking. I wonder if for one minuet these people realize what damage they are doing to others while they carry out there vile acts ?After seeing this on the news my girls are now saying is it worth all the heart ache and upset were going through just so that one day "he " will more than likely go free if he attends a therapy course. Me i don't think so. Lets just hope that the police get to him before we do !! Jan x
Boozeburglar
24-Aug-07, 08:54
I don't understand why the media have draged his religion into this though. I saw a clip on the BBC news tonight, and was very disappointed at the focus being on his choosen religion - to me, it doesn't matter what faith you follow, such crimes should not be tolerated, period. I appreciate the implication that he used his position within his church to abuse youngsters, I still don't see that as justification for the press laying it on thick regarding him being a Jehova's Witness. We don't hear many other sex offenders having their religious beliefs highlighted so prominently. I fear incidents like this will only serve to fuel existing pre-conceptions regarding JW's and similar groups.:confused
I have to admit I don't know that much about JWs but I do know that their organization has been criticized previously for 'protecting' paedophiles. Allowing them to remain in the organization, continuing to hold positions of trust having access to youngsters, even attempting to 'cover up' cases where such incidents have been reported within the organization, continuing a policy of 'keeping it within'.
We don't hear many other sex offenders having their religious beliefs highlighted so prominently.
Roman Catholic priests anyone?
..............Roman Catholic priests anyone?
Hmmm...Probably one of the largest Paedophile rings in the world.
What I want to know is, what makes a man (sorry guys, but the women are in the minority in this field) think that he has the right to physically invade the space of another person?
I don't get that a man could look at a small child and actually 'desire' them, or find them attractive in a sexual way. OK, some folks will argue that it's a 'power' thing, but as ADULTS, we already have a head start on the power trip over kids - that's the natural way of the world - I just don't get it...
But give me 10 minutes in a room with a certain guy from MY childhood, I'll show him what POWER is alright.[disgust]
Does therapy work for these paedophiles? If not then why give it?:confused And if they undergo it then why not give them a chance to reform themselves? I believe denying paedos a chance to reform (a luxury that is socially extended to duggies, alcies and wife abusers) gives them something to live for. Without that then they will carry on abusing kids under siege from society which is what we all don't want.
What we gonna do? Get real or just clog up our prisons with people that don't deserve to be there anymore?:confused
Rheghead, you said: Get real or just clog up our prisons with people that don't deserve to be there anymore?
Do you not think this man DESERVED to be jailed?
he didn't nick a sweetie out of woolies you know!
He is a 38yr old man - Alledgedly he was 31 when he STOPPED committing these crimes against mainly children. Alledgedly he was 17 when he started.
His youngest victim was a child of 18 months.
My youngest daughter is 17 & she understands what laws she sort of 'can' break & what she can't - as should this guy have done at that age - but to continue for 14 years - unbelievable!
OK, so he's now had therapy - AND?
He still committed a crime (of the worst kind) - he should now suffer the consequences & do his time!
Personally, I hope he dies a rather horrible death - and soon. [mad]
As Jaws would probly, say... Maybe someone raised their voice to him when he was a small child, huh? Poor dear.
can i ask how therapy would help in any way? it is a sexual preference not an illness!!!
What ever it is he should be castrated with out a doubt.! jan x
What ever it is he should be castrated with out a doubt.! jan x
well , that would certainly solve the problem. preferably after he served a suitable jail term.[disgust]
I think i read that castration doesnt work.
I believe the powers that be need to REALLY look at the issue of people who abuse children and what to do with them which really means how to stop them from doing it in the first place and how to stop them doing it once they have been caught. Seems there isnt much help to prevent people who finid themselves drawn to this sort of behaviour through child porn or other weird stuff. What does someone do who recognises they are feeling that way and doesnt want to be the sort of person that makes them? How do they fight it? How do they acknowledge it? How do they change?
If they are caught then what do we do to make sure they arent able to do it again - some say lock them up for ever - thats not going to happen.... We havent the space , we havent the legal system for it either so how do we "treat" people who are peadophiles? Are they all dangerous? Are they all beyond redemption? If we dont know the answer to these questions then are we sure that throwing someone into prison and leaving them there for two five ten years helps? I doubt it
What about those who were abused themselves and are damaged and hurting because of that? Can they not be helped and turned into better people?
You can probably tell that i have no answers on this subject - just a whole lot of questions - i would want to kill someone who did anything to my children but i recognise thats not going to help address this problem and in the long term its just going to continue to rear its very ugly head.
thefugitive1993
24-Aug-07, 14:59
Of the votes in, three people (or 11% of the total) don't think he should have been sent to prison. Could one of you explain your reasoning? :confused
I have to (in contrast with the majority), agree with you on this. My reasoning is:
We now know that homosexuality, once thought of as a repulsive sickness/weakness can have a genetic element.
I guess that for some that particular variation can be a hard road to travel. I would need to be convinced that other sexual variants were an intentional "evil" choice before I started imprisoning/lynching.
Please do not misunderstand, I am the father of two pre-teen girls and as concerned for their safety as any other parent and I have no clear evidence-based solution for this, but I do think offering appropriate dialogue and non-judgemental assistance to anyone who finds themself with urges, which may predispose them to harming themselves or others, should be available prior to an offence being committed. Afterwards, I just don't know, there has to be safety for the majority, but I'm a long way from being convinced that prison is the answer.
Does therapy work for these paedophiles? If not then why give it?:confused And if they undergo it then why not give them a chance to reform themselves? I believe denying paedos a chance to reform (a luxury that is socially extended to duggies, alcies and wife abusers) gives them something to live for. Without that then they will carry on abusing kids under siege from society which is what we all don't want.
What we gonna do? Get real or just clog up our prisons with people that don't deserve to be there anymore?:confused
Well druggies hurt mainly themselves ,as do Alchies ,and wife beaters, well were talking about what they do to another adult ,who has the choice to get the police involved the very first time it happen,s then walk away , very far away. BUT WHAT THESE PEDO,S DO TO THE MOST VULNERABEL. our defenceless children. I always thought that it was our [ the adults] place to protect our children, after all they are easiest to hurt & prey on. often enough they would be to scared to tell their parents if a pedo had been interfering with them. And why would castration not work. myself i would have thought that, that would have been the sure way to end it. full stop.
I have to (in contrast with the majority), agree with you on this. My reasoning is:
We now know that homosexuality, once thought of as a repulsive sickness/weakness can have a genetic element.
I don't think you can equate peoples thoughts on homosexuality with paedophilia. One is an act between two consenting adults the other is the worst kind of rape.
personaly, i think, of course he should go to prison. Once his time is served he, and all others like him should be marooned on an island, far away from decent people and they can live out their lives there.:(
I don't think you can equate peoples thoughts on homosexuality with paedophilia. One is an act between two consenting adults the other is the worst kind of rape.
I agree with this point - I see absolutely NO relevance between homosexuality & paedophilia, as I'm sure anyone from the homosexual community will confirm.
And why would castration not work. myself i would have thought that, that would have been the sure way to end it. full stop.
Well apparently not. It appears that sexual crimes are often about power and domination and not about sex at all. So removing the means to produce the hormone that controls desire isnt going to necessarily remove the urge to abuse. The urge to abuse is often in the head as opposed to anywhere else.
he should be locked up, locked up an e key thrown awie. therapy wil never work. just cost us even more money.
its got til be in ye til come oot ye, and if its in ye...it wil come oot.
he isna safe til be walkin e streets.
if he is free then its wur rite that he should come wi a public safety warnin. they put warnins on everythin else that may be a danger til us!
[disgust]for all those who think its ok for him to be free, ur awful!
its disgusting!
people who commit fraud get more time than rapists,paedophiles! i know fraud is wrong but this is worse[evil]
iv got a confession til make!!
i thot e question wish 'should he hev avoided e jail or something (?) so i hit no by accident. so when it says 4 people its really only 3. i think he should be sent til e nick...forever!
sorry guys...
Well apparently not. It appears that sexual crimes are often about power and domination and not about sex at all. So removing the means to produce the hormone that controls desire isnt going to necessarily remove the urge to abuse. The urge to abuse is often in the head as opposed to anywhere else.
but it,ll sure take the rape outa it.
thefugitive1993
24-Aug-07, 18:14
I don't think you can equate peoples thoughts on homosexuality with paedophilia. One is an act between two consenting adults the other is the worst kind of rape.
I think you have misunderstood my point.
Consent, age, victim etc doesn't figure in the reason for the condition. I made clear my concerns and views in that regard. What troubles me is an uninformed ability to judge the make up of another. Perhaps (and I really don't know), if I were tortured by some aspect of my being on an endless basis, I would unconciously justify it, maybe I'd give in and repent thereafter, maybe I'd be strong and wise, I suppose it depends on the degree of torment and my willpower.
Of course I share your repulsion with the act, but maybe the perpetrator does too. If you have greater insight than me into the mind of a paedophile, than I defer to your position.
thefugitive1993
24-Aug-07, 18:18
I agree with this point - I see absolutely NO relevance between homosexuality & paedophilia, as I'm sure anyone from the homosexual community will confirm.
I'm sure most homosexuals would wish to distance themselves from paedophilia, just as most hetrosexuals would. My point is that sexual direction/preference may not be ours to select.
i dont have a problem with homosexuals,the more there are of them the more women there are for the straight guys. now thats good logic.
but pedo,s thats another thing altogether ,they really aught to get some severe sentencing along with some treatment, i mean after all what they do is really sick. and im still in favour of castration for them.
i dont have a problem with homosexuals,the more there are of them the more women there are for the straight guys. now thats good logic........
Johno, we have a large gay community here in Blackpool.... problem is, have you SEEN the state of what's left??:eek:
I think I want to be a gay man too - it's not fair! [lol]
Seriously though, I'm in total agreement with you
Homosexuality/genetics? Yes, probably.
Physical and/or mental abuse of children? No.
So some people are born with the genetic make-up that means they absolutely have to abuse our little people?
I don't think so! But if that were proved to be true then it is time for capital punishment, because our little people are reliant on the adults of this world to PROTECT them, and if there are people in our midst that are a constant threat & danger, we should get rid. End of.
Personally, I am speaking as a now grown-up abused child - it's not funny when you see the man bringing his own daughters up less than a mile away from your house... it's not acceptable when your own stepdad goes to prison for exacting his own 'justice'. Stepdad broke this guys arm when he was released from a 18month sentence after just 7 weeks. ('Good' behaviour) Stepdad (1st offence) got 2 yrs, served 11 months & was released early on appeal.
It's not acceptable trying to explain WHY you have 'hang-ups' about certain behaviour to every guy you get 'close' to for the rest of your life either.
Sorry - chop their bits off - I'll do it - with pleasure!
Julie.
Of the votes in, three people (or 11% of the total) don't think he should have been sent to prison. Could one of you explain your reasoning? :confused
[I]prior [/B]to an offence being committed. Afterwards, I just don't know, there has to be safety for the majority, but I'm a long way from being convinced that prison is the answer.Eh? How can you agree with me? I was asking a question. :confused
Trivialities aside, thank you for responding. I shall have to ponder this one.
thefugitive1993
24-Aug-07, 23:34
Johno, we have a large gay community here in Blackpool.... problem is, have you SEEN the state of what's left??:eek:
I think I want to be a gay man too - it's not fair! [lol]
Seriously though, I'm in total agreement with you
Homosexuality/genetics? Yes, probably.
Physical and/or mental abuse of children? No.
So some people are born with the genetic make-up that means they absolutely have to abuse our little people?
I don't think so! But if that were proved to be true then it is time for capital punishment, because our little people are reliant on the adults of this world to PROTECT them, and if there are people in our midst that are a constant threat & danger, we should get rid. End of.
Personally, I am speaking as a now grown-up abused child - it's not funny when you see the man bringing his own daughters up less than a mile away from your house... it's not acceptable when your own stepdad goes to prison for exacting his own 'justice'. Stepdad broke this guys arm when he was released from a 18month sentence after just 7 weeks. ('Good' behaviour) Stepdad (1st offence) got 2 yrs, served 11 months & was released early on appeal.
It's not acceptable trying to explain WHY you have 'hang-ups' about certain behaviour to every guy you get 'close' to for the rest of your life either.
Sorry - chop their bits off - I'll do it - with pleasure!
Julie.
Gwaaaaaagh!
I did not say that being abusing children was like being gay, or that anyone absolutely had to abuse "our little people"
The points I was obviously having great difficulty making, is that sexual preference is not a choice, that the sexual urge can be a very powerful one and that people seek to justify to themselves abberant behaviour.
None of this makes harmful traits acceptable, and an attitude, which condemns the make-up (Not the behaviour) of a deviant will drive them underground and make seeking treatment an impossible choice. I think the apparently universal lack of agreement proves the last point.
Fugitive... I'm not here to flame you, or get into a row - I just take certain things a bit too personally. You know that 'red mist' that descends when you read a comment in a certain way?
It's nothing personal, I assure you & Yes, I know what you're trying to say... I think!
Personally I'd still volunteer to be the UK's first legal castrater... complete with a blunt rusty blade - staple gun with which to hold them still - and maybe if I was feeling benevolent, a small band-aid.
Julie
A blunt rusty blade? You'd fit in well in Lybster!
What do you think of the Naked Rambler?
A blunt rusty blade? You'd fit in well in Lybster!
What do you think of the Naked Rambler?
Firstly, I'd give him a damn good shave!
But for braving the walk through some very chilly parts of Wales & then up to Scotland, well.... if they still work after all that cold, he jolly well deserves to keep them! [lol]
thefugitive1993
24-Aug-07, 23:59
Fugitive... I'm not here to flame you, or get into a row - I just take certain things a bit too personally. You know that 'red mist' that descends when you read a comment in a certain way?
It's nothing personal, I assure you & Yes, I know what you're trying to say... I think!
Personally I'd still volunteer to be the UK's first legal castrater... complete with a blunt rusty blade - staple gun with which to hold them still - and maybe if I was feeling benevolent, a small band-aid.
Julie
I accept your point re my point, and I'm not inflamed, just "chewin' the fat".
I understand too the red mist phenomenon, but can't see why an urge to violent vigilanty justice and torture is different to any other urge.
In as much as that's part of your make up, nature versus nurture and all that, I accept you as you are provided no risk to others exists, and would urge you to take the brave step of seeking counsel if you do believe you are a potential threat.
Firstly, I'd give him a damn good shave!
But for braving the walk through some very chilly parts of Wales & then up to Scotland, well.... if they still work after all that cold, he jolly well deserves to keep them! [lol]Perhaps you wouldn't fit in in Lybster then. I think you are required to believe in the rusty blade to live there.
thefugitive1993
25-Aug-07, 00:05
Eh? How can you agree with me? I was asking a question. :confused
Trivialities aside, thank you for responding. I shall have to ponder this one.
Sorry, yes I misread your post. Too quick to reach for keyboard without engaging brain. Sorry
............
In as much as that's part of your make up, nature versus nurture and all that, I accept you as you are provided no risk to others exists, and would urge you to take the brave step of seeking counsel if you do believe you are a potential threat.
Heehee! You made me giggle there...
In reality, I am actually quite a pacifist... the only potential threat I pose on a day to day basis is to Andy's wallet!! [lol]
Mind, I'd still volunteer for the rusty blade - no red mist, coolly & calmly.... "Now sir, this won't hurt a bit.. it might hurt a lot...." ;)
Crayola - all plans are now changed... we're actually off to Ireland!
thefugitive1993
25-Aug-07, 08:43
Heehee! You made me giggle there...
In reality, I am actually quite a pacifist... the only potential threat I pose on a day to day basis is to Andy's wallet!! [lol]
Mind, I'd still volunteer for the rusty blade - no red mist, coolly & calmly.... "Now sir, this won't hurt a bit.. it might hurt a lot...." ;)
Crayola - all plans are now changed... we're actually off to Ireland!
OK, I don't want to labour this any further. I accept I'm in the minority, and not going to change any minds.
The problem with the rusty razor blade approach, isn't finding a lynch mob to apply it; it is finding a just application based on science/evidence not emotion or an inner voice. I'm afraid I don't do "an eye for an eye", and I think this might be an issue where more helpful intervention can be applied.
Have a good time in Ireland.
Boozeburglar
25-Aug-07, 12:22
As far as I am concerned we have far too many people in prison at present, but my instinct is that in these cases we should err on caution until we find solutions that are failsafe. Keep or put these offenders behind bars. On release they should be kept under strictest supervision, probably for the rest of their lives. Finding a practical way of doing this should become easier as technology improves.
I am a great believer in the therapeutic approach, ALL offenders and prisoners should be availed of whatever rehabilitative help that may prove efficacious.
However, allowing this 'monster' to walk free is a terrible mistake and I cannot see any justification for it at all. It sends a very scary message to victims of abuse, those who seek to protect children from abuse, and a very clear green light to potential abusers in society.
You would get worse for stealing a loaf of bread; certainly if you stole twenty four on separate occasions.
Is there not something wrong with that?
footie chick
25-Aug-07, 23:10
i would want to kill someone who did anything to my children but i recognise thats not going to help address this problem and in the long term its just going to continue to rear its very ugly head.
I would be with you 100% something has to be done in this country.
We were in Turkey not so long ago if ANYONE messed with a child we were told that they were taken to the hills and never seen again.
I would do A LIFETIME for anyone who hurt my kids.
As usual we have the same post with the same hang 'em, cut of his whatsits etc etc, but perhaps you should be venting your fury at the courts for letting this man walk free, its the justice system that is failing!
As usual we have the same post with the same hang 'em, cut of his whatsits etc etc, but perhaps you should be venting your fury at the courts for letting this man walk free, its the justice system that is failing!
You are of course 100% correct, Solus, however it is all criminals, not just the paedophiles, that are escaping just punishment.
I say three cheers for Sherrif Berry, who appears to be doing his best on our local level, to ensure criminals are receiving their fair share of punishment! [lol]
As usual we have the same post with the same hang 'em, cut of his whatsits etc etc, but perhaps you should be venting your fury at the courts for letting this man walk free, its the justice system that is failing!
Yes, you're correct, of course.
However, if we all started to live our lives with a modicum of decency & respect, the courts wouldn't have to be making these sorts of decisions in the first place....
connieb19
26-Aug-07, 12:11
can i ask how therapy would help in any way? it is a sexual preference not an illness!!!I totally agree with Spiggie, you cannot cure something that is not an ilness. Paedophilia is a sexual preference, IMO there is no CURE, they should be locked away for life.
yet another criminal goes free it just another of the many times i have read in the papers/news how criminals are getting better rights than the victims. It makes my blood boil this country has truly gone to the dogs and needs sorting!!!!
I totally agree with Spiggie, you cannot cure something that is not an ilness. Paedophilia is a sexual preference, IMO there is no CURE, they should be locked away for life.
but there is a cure, castration. that ll work .if that doe,snt do it then death .
it,ll stop em then for sure. [disgust]
Aye and i think e best way of castration is to dangle them over a crocodile pit. [evil]
I thought squidge has already pointed out that castration doesn't have any effect on a paedo's urge to re-offend? So shouldn't a sentence fit the crime?:confused All calls for capital punishment is just emotional/kneejerk rubbish that's never gonna happen, so what is the answer to this problem?
I think that spite is at the heart of a lot crimes against children. Transferred aggression is another term for it. No paedo actually wants to be a paedo. Someone hurt them, so they are going to hurt somebody.
I thought squidge has already pointed out that castration doesn't have any effect on a paedo's urge to re-offend? So shouldn't a sentence fit the crime?:confused All calls for capital punishment is just emotional/kneejerk rubbish that's never gonna happen, so what is the answer to this problem?
I think that spite is at the heart of a lot crimes against children. Transferred aggression is another term for it. No paedo actually wants to be a paedo. Someone hurt them, so they are going to hurt somebody.
not always e case im afraid, I worked with a person with aquired head injury who offended, he came from a good family and no history of harm etc. I asked the experts, "is it because of e brain injury he is like that?" I was told no, he would be like that anyway, its just something thats there. Wether it is or it isnt, i dont know and I dont know e answer and it might not help them being castrated, but im talking about what id like to do to em. Justice is too soft, they know they get a jail sentance if caught but they also know its often secluded with their own kind and protected, then often released with so called rehabilitation and theraphy which does as much good as a chocolate teapot. I have suffered abuse as a child but I dont want to go out and hurt or abuse somebody innocent, especially a child or vulnerable person, im completely opposite, but i want to see the abusers pay. if I harmed an abuser would i get a soft deal because it was transferred agression? I dont think so matey
thefugitive1993
27-Aug-07, 10:03
I totally agree with Spiggie, you cannot cure something that is not an ilness. Paedophilia is a sexual preference, IMO there is no CURE, they should be locked away for life.
"In my opinion" is a reasonable caveat prior to expressing an opinion; however I think this is an ill-informed opinion.
"Paedophilia is a sexual preference": Yes a preference, but not a choice. I would find it difficult to accept that someone thinks (either conciously or not), "Now who would be better to have sex with, a consenting adult or a child? Maybe I'll try a child today". Therefore the "hard-wiring" in that person's brain is wrong.
Genetics, to a degree, governs sexuality, as does life experience. It has been shown for example that those subject to abuse are more likely to become abusers.
Now, I like cherries, but I know that breaking into the fruit shop is wrong and I resist that. I am not however driven by an uncontrolable urge to eat cherries, and sex drive can be very strong, so normal rules of restrained behaviour are difficult to apply.
Society is rightly outraged by behaviour which harms the innocent, and I am too; and it may be that offenders of this sort need to be taken out of circulation (by my own admission, their drives may be out of control), however, I have a belief that providing counsel in a non-judgemental way prior to the event would allow those who are in turmoil to come forward.
If we accept that this is an illness, we may be more willing to do that.
connieb19
27-Aug-07, 12:05
"In my opinion" is a reasonable caveat prior to expressing an opinion; however I think this is an ill-informed opinion.
Your opinion is different to mine, what makes you so sure your opinion is correct and mines is wrong? :confused
Why is it that when these people are caught it's never their fault. It's because of their parents, or they were poor victims themselves, but not all victims of paedophillia turn around and offend themseles. It comes down them chosing to or not. Some of them probably do despise themselves but by carrying out their action they show they cannot control their urges which they know to be wrong.
If they hate themselves so much why don't they come forward themselves and choose to be chemically castrated?
I have no sympathy for them, they are evil and minipulative. Lets start focussing on them who cannot protect themselves instead of trying to rehabilitate those who will probably reoffend anyway.
You say it's an illness, I think we need to decide whether they are criminals and lock them up in prison for life, or whether they are mentally ill and lock them up in secure hospitals for life.
It's time the do gooders stopped namby pambying to them, they should lose all their human rights the first time they lay a hand on some innocent child. [disgust]
Your opinion is different to mine, what makes you so sure your opinion is correct and mines is wrong?
Why is it that when these people are caught it's never their fault. It's because of their parents, or they were poor victims themselves, but not all victims of paedophillia turn around and offend themseles. It comes down them chosing to or not. Some of them probably do despise themselves but by carrying out their action they show they cannot control their urges which they know to be wrong.
If they hate themselves so much why don't they come forward themselves and choose to be chemically castrated?
I have no sympathy for them, they are evil and minipulative. Lets start focussing on them who cannot protect themselves instead of trying to rehabilitate those who will probably reoffend anyway.
You say it's an illness, I think we need to decide whether they are criminals and lock them up in prison for life, or whether they are mentally ill and lock them up in secure hospitals for life.
It's time the do gooders stopped namby pambying to them, they should lose all their human rights the first time they lay a hand on some innocent child. [disgust]
Thank god someone has some sence. some of your posts in relation to this topic have made my blood boil ( not you connieb ) I hope that not one of you out there have been through this or are going through this at the moment , take it from me.. Its not an illness, im 100% positive of that .
For all of you who have children just sit back for 5 mins and think how distraught they would be if it happened to them and how you would deal with it all as a family, you NEVER think it will "happen to me " but these things do...I know :~(. jan x
I agree with you connieb19 and as for the hard wiring -thefugitive1993, there brains work fine enough when they carefully plot, plan, and groom their victims, many are high profile people, who parents think can be trusted, take Gary Glitter for example, fame and fortune and a hidden depth of depravity, it boils down to the fact they cannae form normal sexual relationships or need to have complete control over there subjects and kiddies are easy targets. They get enjoyment out of having "power".Paedos have married and had kids of their own, they may not necessary abuse their own kids, but have a secret depraved mind which has no quirms about abusing other kids. They are no sick, or mentally affective,Mental illness can be cured,they cannae, they are evil. Myra Hindly was a Paedo, she got her kicks out of sexually abusing children etc, and no way was she under anyones influence or control, whatever she tried to get people to believe. Counselling is no good, they do re-offend the majority of the time, the money and resources should be better spent on e victims. They should all be put on an island (same sex)somewhere far out to sea, in an area only accessable by plane and left to get on with their own devices. They can then carry out their deviations with each other.:mad:
connieb19
27-Aug-07, 12:45
Anyone who thinks that Peadophiles are the poor victims should read this to get an idea of just how minipulative they are.[disgust]
http://www.newcastle.gov.uk/educlibnew.nsf/099596290d655d2980256bb50045ba3d/e1455ebbc3d0c3df80256dec0043e334/$FILE/PAEDOPHILES%20WITHIN%20EDUCATION.pdf
Aye and also look at my other thread about News of the World, this is happening on our own doorsteps :(
connieb19
27-Aug-07, 13:00
Aye and also look at my other thread about News of the World, this is happening on our own doorsteps :(
Where can I find it?
I cannae find a site of e newspaper, but it is in yesterdays News of the World, page 27. I posted a thread in e general section headed News of The world
its awful that these sick people get off with abusing people! where i live there has been alot of this recently and there is one man who got off with it as he pleaded guilty to one part of it! how on earth is that right?[disgust]
connieb19
27-Aug-07, 15:54
its awful that these sick people get off with abusing people! where i live there has been alot of this recently and there is one man who got off with it as he pleaded guilty to one part of it! how on earth is that right?[disgust]
Maybe he's had some of that nice non-judgemental councilling with people who will say he's a reformed character, I'm sure he is:roll:. These perverts are extremely devious and make sure they come across as nice people because it's easier to get close to children than monsters could.
it disgusts me it really does how these people get of soo lightly with harming others mentally and physically, and when there is children involved it really disturbs me as to how they get pleasure from doing this!
Why is it that when these people are caught it's never their fault. It's because of their parents, or they were poor victims themselves, but not all victims of paedophillia turn around and offend themseles. It comes down them chosing to or not. Some of them probably do despise themselves but by carrying out their action they show they cannot control their urges which they know to be wrong.
If they hate themselves so much why don't they come forward themselves and choose to be chemically castrated?
I have no sympathy for them, they are evil and minipulative. Lets start focussing on them who cannot protect themselves instead of trying to rehabilitate those who will probably reoffend anyway.
You say it's an illness, I think we need to decide whether they are criminals and lock them up in prison for life, or whether they are mentally ill and lock them up in secure hospitals for life.
It's time the do gooders stopped namby pambying to them, they should lose all their human rights the first time they lay a hand on some innocent child. [disgust]
I certainly wasnt saying its not their fault - although i beleive in some cases it might be as a result of what they have experienced. Paedophiles are amongst the worst reoffenders i think - this however shows that locking them up doesnt actually do any good if you ask me. This is not about being a "do gooder" its about being practical and sensible. My point is that we are NOT keeping our children safe with the system we are using at the moment. Children are still being abused although a massive majority are abused by people they know there is still the threat of an offender reoffending on release. There is nowhere for people who have these sorts of urges to get help PRIOR to actually abusing a child; we dont have a legal system which allows any of the things talked about here like castration, hanging, rusty knives, shooting in the back of the head or even locking them up and throwing away the key. We have to start looking at alternatives and whether there is more we can do to PREVENT these things happening. Maybe therapy is an answer maybe not but we surely have to overcome our disgust and at least examine the possibilities and the alternatives to jail or we are destined to make the same mistakes again and again.
There are so many things we refuse to even think about, peadophiles, drug legalisation, gun crime and by throwing our hands up in horror and saying Just shoot them all we are impotent to change anything. Only when ALL the angles are examined might we find a way through this mess
appleskin
27-Aug-07, 16:52
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/bristol/6960166.stm
This guy admits to having perpetrated abuse on multiple victims, some as young as eighteen months!
Should he have escaped a prison sentence because he had undergone 'therapy'?
I don't think so.the damage these people cause can be devastating and can last alifetime ,the world would still go round without them,it gives those who want to bring back hanging a good case
connieb19
27-Aug-07, 17:01
Squidge, Jesus, this bloke abused children 24 times, one being only 18 months old and you think therapy MIGHT help him. What about any future families he might prey upon, MAYBE is of no good to them. :eek:
Connie - neither am i talking about this man particularly i was talking about abusers in general and that the way we deal with them HAS to be looked at from all angles because the mere fact that this man is walking the streets after abusing children 24 times shows fine well that they system isnt working.
no matter how much we would want to castrate gun down or otherwise mutilate people our society doesnt allow it so we have to figure out what works and what prevents it cos it appears that jail doesnt
connieb19
27-Aug-07, 17:20
Connie - neither am i talking about this man particularly i was talking about abusers in general and that the way we deal with them HAS to be looked at from all angles because the mere fact that this man is walking the streets after abusing children 24 times shows fine well that they system isnt working.
no matter how much we would want to castrate gun down or otherwise mutilate people our society doesnt allow it so we have to figure out what works and what prevents it cos it appears that jail doesnt
Well lets talk about this bloke seeing as it's how the thread started, what would you suggest for him?
Well lets talk about this bloke seeing as it's how the thread started, what would you suggest for him?
i dont know what squidge would do with him. i can only speak for myself and i sure know what i,d do with him and the likes of him.
If the poor sod was abused as a child then surely he knows full well what it,s like to a child when he is the abuser, and surely that in it,s self would tell him in his own mind just how wrong it is in what he,s doing.
Castrate these people and if that does,nt work then hang them.
Its a bloody sad day when innocent children cant play safely. in fact these people are so twisted that they will even enter a house and snatch a child from the safety of the childs own home. now how twisted is that.
i do not believe these people can be healed niether do i think they want to be.
untill such time as the punishment fits the crime we will never be rid of this scourge. [disgust]
PS .and as for human rights, id give them their human rights all right , the same human rights that they gave victims. [disgust] [evil]
Well lets talk about this bloke seeing as it's how the thread started, what would you suggest for him?
Are we talking about within the law right now?
Ok I would look at the evidence the court has had and decide what was appropriate. If it was jail then i would jail him, however if it was likely that the maximum time i could sentence him to jail means that he will be relaeased with no treatment or support or monitoring then i would try to ind something that soved the problem of this man better than a jail sentence would do.
The point is connie - i dont know what to do with him because it appears that nothing we have the power to do works. throw him in jail - we cant keep him there for ever - the law wont let us, he gets out and reoffends, ITs STUPID. if we look at all the options, maybe castration IS the answer, maybe therapy IS an answer for some people maybe being able to jail people for life and mean it is the answer - I dont know but just now Connie we are failing the kids we are trying to protect. We HAVE to see if we can find something which deals with this PROPERLY otherwise history repeats itself over and over again. That means looking seriously and unemotionally at the "sickness" ( whether its a psychological problem or a perversion ) that is paedophillia and seeing what will work in what cases. it might mean that people dont go to prison in the same way they do now, it might mean the rusty knife thing but unless we EXAMINE all the options we wont know will we?
connieb19
27-Aug-07, 18:21
Squidge, i take it then that you believe most men who have these perversions truely don't want to act upon them and will happily attend these therapy sessions before commiting a crime?
Once they have commited a crime they should be punished, why should paedophiles be different to any other criminal and treated as if they are the victim?
Paedophiles who groom children are expert minipulators, they are pretty good at convincing the system that they are reformed characters, when many are just dying to get out to meet others who share their perversions.
Lusting after children is part of their character, you might as well try to convince a hetero male never to fantasise about women.
Lock them up and keep them there, a child abuser behind bars is better than on the streets, at least they are no risk to innocent children in there. You only know they MIGHT not be a risk with your idea about therapy. Why should they be given that chance?
OK, a question for all the folks who have disagreed with the 'knee-jerk' reaction of castration, hanging, shooting etc,
Hypothetically, if Michael Porter lived in YOUR street, and you knew that he had been for therapy and been set free from the court.....
Would YOU feel comfortable letting your children play outside, talk to him etc?
Would you still be of the opinion that he be given a second chance, and let him integrate with you & yours?
I think not.
Julie.
connieb19
27-Aug-07, 18:42
OK, a question for all the folks who have disagreed with the 'knee-jerk' reaction of castration, hanging, shooting etc,
Hypothetically, if Michael Porter lived in YOUR street, and you knew that he had been for therapy and been set free from the court.....
Would YOU feel comfortable letting your children play outside, talk to him etc?
Would you still be of the opinion that he be given a second chance, and let him integrate with you & yours?
I think not.
Julie.I bet some would take him in for afternoon tea and a big hug. :roll:
The trouble with these sort of threads is that there are so many orgers who express impractical/illegal calls for mob justice without any thought for a debate about this issue within the confines of our legal system.
percy toboggan
27-Aug-07, 19:25
Castration is certainly not the answer for those who molest or rape children. Much of their behaviour is about power, and the contamination and exploitaiton of innocence. In any just society those who do serious harm to infants and toddlers would be despatched via the gibbet - whatever their own experiences.
People who repeat offend against older children are an eternal danger and should be locked away with their own ilk far, far away from these shores. Preferably somewhere quite cold. Our law makers and enforcers do not have the stomach for such draconian measures yet they are the only ones which will satisfy the majority of the public they are supposed to serve.
There shouldn't have to be a legal system where people who abuse kids are concerned, let the parents get to them, were going down the police route as advised by some orgers but my god if we hubby or i just happen to see him before the police do then its goodbye Paris for a few years behind bars. Do you really think that i as a parent wont want to do him harm???? for Christ sake i want to pull his ( swear word ) head of ! How dare he touch my kids. How dare we took him in and he abused our hospitality. How dare he make my girls suffer at his pleasure. How dare he make my daughters life hell and all this time i thought i had a problem child when in fact it has been him that has made them, one in particular how she is . I cant get across in strong enough words how enraged i am , how its broken a family, how we all feel unclean, and how we now don't trust a living sole. would you all like to go through the rest of your lives like this , i think not. jan x:~(
connieb19
27-Aug-07, 19:31
The trouble with these sort of threads is that there are so many orgers who express impractical/illegal calls for mob justice without any thought for a debate about this issue within the confines of our legal system.They are criminals, they should be punished for their crimes, what sort of message does this give out to kids that are being abused when the abuser is being treated as the victim. There should be a change in attitude about children and childhood, we need no new laws to do that, their safety should come before any rights of the abuser.
percy toboggan
27-Aug-07, 19:36
The trouble with these sort of threads is that there are so many orgers who express impractical/illegal calls for mob justice without any thought for a debate about this issue within the confines of our legal system.
What you seem to be denying is a right for people to express their views beyond this pathetically warped system of so called 'justice' we are currently saddled with. If we debate within it's terms then the most important topic will be when parole might be considered, or the offenders 'human rights'.
I don't give a fig for either. Safer streets, play parks and homes are what I want and if that means thinking outside the confines of a limiting box then so be it. Of course words are cheap. Actions speak louder. Write to your M.P. and demand tougher sentencing. I have.
Paris I do not know what's gone on here and frankly I do not want to know - I can only wish you and your family well - and justice.
They are criminals, they should be punished for their crimes, what sort of message does this give out to kids that are being abused when the abuser is being treated as the victim. There should be a change in attitude about children and childhood, we need no new laws to do that, their safety should come before any rights of the abuser.
A boy from the 18th century steals a loaf of bread from a wealthy man to feed his family and gets hung from a gibbet, is he a victim or a criminal?:confused
The legal system wasn't properly equipped then to punish this boy, I think this may be the case for some paedophiles, not all mind.
Highland Laddie
27-Aug-07, 21:13
I think i read that castration doesnt work.
If they are caught then what do we do to make sure they arent able to do it again - some say lock them up for ever - thats not going to happen.... We havent the space
I'm not sure, but isn't Stroma unpopulated now.
Stick them on the island, plenty fish in the sea, let them fend for themselves.
save the tax payer a lot of time, trouble and money.
highland laddie ,why pollute a nice friendly island with this scum, there must be other places better suited to accomadate them. Hell springs to mind.
looked what happened when Britain expelled criminals to Australia.
they made a far better country. A country that exports criminals back here.?
The trouble with these sort of threads is that there are so many orgers who express impractical/illegal calls for mob justice without any thought for a debate about this issue within the confines of our legal system.
Mob justice is never the answer, that makes us no worst than them. If the politicians and other lawmakers can't come close to doing the right thing then get rid of them them an bring in people who can make us safe from these and other scum.
Now then, I was thinking... what about 'tagging'?
You know, the part of a guy that grows at inopportune moments could be tagged - when it starts to grow... Zzzzapp! One nice big leccy shock.
Maybe a 'three strikes & you're out' type of thing where on the 4th zap, it could be rigged for a fatal level.
Then, at least they would only have themselves to blame.
It's a thought....
connieb19
27-Aug-07, 23:24
Now then, I was thinking... what about 'tagging'?
You know, the part of a guy that grows at inopportune moments could be tagged - when it starts to grow... Zzzzapp! One nice big leccy shock.
Maybe a 'three strikes & you're out' type of thing where on the 4th zap, it could be rigged for a fatal level.
Then, at least they would only have themselves to blame.
It's a thought....
Then they would just lurk about in swimming pools lol.
Then they would just lurk about in swimming pools lol.
No Connie - I thought that..... but water & electric zappers wouldn't mix, would they? ;)
What you seem to be denying is a right for people to express their views beyond this pathetically warped system of so called 'justice' we are currently saddled with. If we debate within it's terms then the most important topic will be when parole might be considered, or the offenders 'human rights'.
I don't give a fig for either. Safer streets, play parks and homes are what I want and if that means thinking outside the confines of a limiting box then so be it. Of course words are cheap. Actions speak louder. Write to your M.P. and demand tougher sentencing. I have.
Paris I do not know what's gone on here and frankly I do not want to know - I can only wish you and your family well - and justice.
Thanks Percy. Jan x
Squidge, i take it then that you believe most men who have these perversions truely don't want to act upon them and will happily attend these therapy sessions before commiting a crime?
Once they have commited a crime they should be punished, why should paedophiles be different to any other criminal and treated as if they are the victim? ?
Connie - you are absolutely misunderstanding me. I am not saying they shouldnt be punished nor am i saying they would all trot off to therapy sessions and turn into model citizens. Its a new day lets see if i can make what i mean clearer.
Lock them up and keep them there, a child abuser behind bars is better than on the streets, at least they are no risk to innocent children in there. You only know they MIGHT not be a risk with your idea about therapy. Why should they be given that chance?
Just now our legal system doesnt allow for people to be locked up for the rest of their natural life Life rarely means life. The law doesnt allow castration, it doesnt allow for them to be thrown to the mob and torn apart, there is no political will to even look at alternatives even when what we have now isnt working. Currently we have prisoners who when they are released just go on to re offend. How is that keeping our children safe?
When there is strong public outrage the government shy away from examining other options because they are too scared. This simply allows the status quo to continue. To really deal with the problem of peadophiles we HAVE to look at how to prevent them offending on the first place, how to punish them when they offend and how to prevent them reoffending after realease.
This might be
Jail for ever
Rusty knife
Castration
Therapy prior to offences being committed
Therapy during jail sentences and after release
the "stroma" option
or anything else that might keep our children safer than they are now.
If all these options are researched and a decision is made then where a change in the law is needed it can be done. Currently we are bumbling along with our fingers crossed simply shoving them in jail and burying our heads in the sand and then keeping our fingers crossed when they get out that theymight have changed their behaviour when we actually havent done anything to make that behaviour change happen.
We have to be brave enough as a society to look at whats not popular in order to find a solution to something and we arent. So people like the man whose crimes started this thread continue to walk free with not a lot happening to change his behaviour and peadophiles continue to be released to offend again because our politicians are tooscared of being unpopular.
Its stupid and blinkered
He should be shot!! Let him meet his maker and let him judge. Children should be safe in our communitys!! The "man" is a beast.
unfortunately we cant do that either lin - so we have to look at what we can do within the law to make places safe for our children - we arent doing that just now
connieb19
28-Aug-07, 12:02
The question on the first post was should this sex attacker go to prison? As far as I was aware it was about our opinions, not about all the ins and outs of the law. Do you think I'm stupid enough to think a poll on Caithness.org is going to change the law?
My opinion is that he should be locked up, not only for the safety of other children but because he has commited a crime for which he should be punished. Why should he be treated as the victim? I wonder how that makes the peope he abused and their families feel?
He knew what he was doing was wrong. Why didn't he go for help before commiting any crimes, why only go once he knew he was rumbled?
As you've already said, nothing so far has worked, the option for treatment prior to offending is already there if they want it so it's obviously not working. My opinion is that maybe its time the policies changed so that they can be locked up for life, it's the way to make sure they don't reoffend.
No matter how stupid you think my opinion is, I've not read anything in your posts that have made me change my mind.
connieb19
28-Aug-07, 12:10
unfortunately we cant do that either lin - so we have to look at what we can do within the law to make places safe for our children - we arent doing that just nowBut we are doing that just now, help is available if they really want it, it's not working. Okay maybe therapy for some prior to offending does help, but once they have commited an offence they are not victims and should not be treated like vicims.
The question on the first post was should this sex attacker go to prison? As far as I was aware it was about our opinions, not about all the ins and outs of the law. Do you think I'm stupid enough to think a poll on Caithness.org is going to change the law?
My opinion is that he should be locked up, not only for the safety of other children but because he has commited a crime for which he should be punished. Why should he be treated as the victim? I wonder how that makes the peope he abused and their families feel?
He knew what he was doing was wrong. Why didn't he go for help before commiting any crimes, why only go once he knew he was rumbled?
As you've already said, nothing so far has worked, the option for treatment prior to offending is already there if they want it so it's obviously not working. My opinion is that maybe its time the policies changed so that they can be locked up for life, it's the way to make sure they don't reoffend.
No matter how stupid you think my opinion is, I've not read anything in your posts that have made me change my mind.
I have never said or thought your opinion was stupid connie ever. Treatment is there some places at some times there is no joined up thinking - should he go to jail? Yes probably but are we gonna have the same conversation when he is released in 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 years time? yes probably. And if the only answer is to lock them up for life then lets lock them up for life - the thing is we dont know what the answer is because no one takes any time to examine and evaluate things properly and our children still suffer. I think we actually agree in part here connie so why are we arguing?
percy toboggan
28-Aug-07, 18:33
I think i read that castration doesnt work.
You don't need to 'read it'. It is a matter of common sense and a little imagination.
Many of these offenders would perpetrate even more violence upon innocents if their sexual urges could not be vented. The physical act of castration does not stop the workings of the brain, nor would it stop the pre-dilections of a lifetime.
.........The physical act of castration does not stop the workings of the brain, nor would it stop the pre-dilections of a lifetime.
No, percy, you're quite right.
But hanging would.
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