View Full Version : corporal punishment in school?
im curious what others think on this subject.
and wonder if their will be a dif. in answers between peeps with and without children.
ohh and would love to know if peeps with kids have older/ younger or school age children.
also would like to know what form of punishment you find acceptable.
personally i would rather the school call me and inform me of said offence and then let me decide the punishment.
but if it was brought back. nothing more than a paddling and only for primary students. not high school as children that old, i feel are to old for physicall punishment.
thanks guys!
Well, I'm a mum & a nan, I was punished at school for something I can't remember now, but the girls were made to 'stand under the clock' in the hall at lunch - the boys were given the slipper!
If a kiddy really deserved it, then yes, why not?
Why is it that children at schools can get away with answering back, sometimes even physically attacking teachers, etc, with no retribution apart from being suspended/expelled?
Often, these kids ENJOY their suspensions!
It's time to turn the clock back I think, & get back to good old fashioned discipline & teaching old values - 'respect your elders' springs to mind here - but then, this again brings me to the point that it's mainly OUR generation which are bringing these kids up - why can't or why won't we do what our parents and grandparents did, and teach by example?
I've only used physical punishment a handful of times with my girls, but then I brought them up to respect others, and above all, respect themselves.
Julie
Lolabelle
20-Aug-07, 22:38
I am a sort of parent. I am step mum to 3 grown children. They lived with me and their father before they were married and I would never have smacked them. I had other forms of punishment, like no TV or going out. I don't think anyone else has the right to smack a child beyond the parents or family members who are in charge at the time, (grandparent babysitting etc).
Personally, I think that a parent who chastises a small child properly in it's early years, are unlikely to have to smack after about 7 or 8, if then. There are always exceptions to the rules ofcourse. Consistancy in parenting is the key to discipline, make a rule or judgement and stick to it. The kids think you are a joke if you aren't consistant. So no, I don't think teachers have the right to smack children. There are other ways. There is too much scope for abuse. But I reckon, if I was a teacher I would want to kick some kids into tomorrow, wouldn't you???[evil]
Metalattakk
20-Aug-07, 23:10
Personally I'd like a system whereby the parents of an unruly child is brought into school and given a 'brief introduction' to the good old Lochgelly tawse.
Smack the parents, it's all their fault. It's about time they took the responsibility of bringing their children up properly.
Personally I'd like a system whereby the parents of an unruly child is brought into school and given a 'brief introduction' to the good old Lochgelly tawse.
Smack the parents, it's all their fault. It's about time they took the responsibility of bringing their children up properly.
Mightn't be such a bad idea, at that, Metalattakk. Failing hitting them in their pocket with fines for pathetic parenting, it would at least make them consider the consequences of their inactions.
But does anybody else think it is interesting that we have a thread about it being the 25th Anniversary of the banning of the belt in schools...........and there is research showing that, in the last 25 years, behavioural problems have doubled in boys and increased by a third in girls.
Cause and effect, I wonder?
I was belted........and punished again when I went home.........as were my own kids..and they have often said that they would have no problem regarding their kids if corporal punishment was still allowed in school.
Provided it was a fair punishment, and not the first resort of an inadequate teacher, though.
I do think in the past, belting became the easy option..........but in the days when the parents didn't come ranting in to school to berate the teacher for belting their darling, angelic offspring it did seem to have a beneficial effect on the whole.
sorry brandy, i voted aye but now iv changed ma mind. i hevna got any bairns.
i da think a teacher should be able til punish a child in a physical way. i think at method o' punishment is a bit dated. they'l be wantin til bring back hangin next!! :roll:
though it never done e kids much harm in them days, i would be more scared for the teacher nowadays!
if a teacher physically punished a pupil, he may find his windows put thro, his car scratched or even worse!!
na, we'r in a modern society now and surly can come up with better solutions til deal wi the irratic behaviour of the modern average teenager than violence.
detention or something. punishment excersises wis e worst thing aboot highschool for me. not only did i hev til do e exersise withoot ma faither findin oot but then i hed til get someone til forge his signiture!! :eek:
thats the crux of the matter though.
how many teachers would resort to hitting for every small infracture?
it would need to be a very clear and precise reason.
should we smack molly for talking in class?
or ryan for chewing gum?
when callum gives cheek back, and tells the teacher where to go?
or mick and jamie go head to head because rangers beat celtic last night?
obviously it would have to be tightly regulated.. would def. think parents should be informed before hand.
but all in all.. dicipline is a must and at the end of the day it needs to start at home, where sadly in todays day and age a lot of times .. it dosent.
Jeemag_USA
21-Aug-07, 01:28
Personally I'd like a system whereby the parents of an unruly child is brought into school and given a 'brief introduction' to the good old Lochgelly tawse.
Smack the parents, it's all their fault. It's about time they took the responsibility of bringing their children up properly.
Although I don't really hold with that idea, Metal makes a good point, it shoudl be up to the parents to keep their children in check. My son attends High School here and his school has a Zero Tolerance policy. If he does something unruly at school we are called at work or at home immediately and told exactly what has happened, depending on the severity of what has happened the child can be suspended from one to several days or can be made to stay long after school. This causes the parents inconvience because they need to find someone to look after their child while suspended or take days off work to do it themselves, if they get kept behind then they have to pick them up from the school causing them a trip and petrol money. There is a disciplinary system where second offenders and so on get treated more severely until it leads to a very fast expulsion from the school, not being able to return to the school they may have to apply for one much further away causing more inconvenience to the parents and then they only get in after the school reads his casework and decides wether they want him. If he cannot get into a school then the parents can be penalised by law for depriving the child of education. So the onus is most definately put on to the parents, and when this happens you can be asured the parents give them much more of a walloping than the school would, so the parents start to disipline the child into behaving well in school by grounding them and depriving them of things they enjoy, and when it comes down to it, the kid understands then that if he gets into no trouble at school then he enjoys himself outside of school.
When I was at Thurso High the strap didn't bother me at all, even from the scariest of teachers, just made me worse, and the school never told my parents anything, so I would just be back in trouble in no time, people hardly ever got suspended when i was at Thurso High and very very rarely gt expelled. So what good is strapping someone, no good at all, thats why it got stopped. The pressure needs to be put onto parents which in return cause a re action in pressure fom the parents to the children. Corporal punishment is futile, so why bring it back?
I think Schools everywhere should adopt the zero tolerance policy, if the kid does not want to behave in school and disrupts everyting for others, then put them home and leave them home until their parents apologise and agree to enroll them in some kind of special class where they cannot disrupt those interested in doing their work.
Mister Squiggle
21-Aug-07, 08:35
I just voted no, and I'm a parent and a teacher. Frankly, the idea of corporal punishment seems weird in this day and age and I'd hate to be handed a strap and told to deal out blows for any kind of infraction. I'd feel degraded and I think the children would too.
I rather like Jeemag's suggestion of zero tolerance. The main difficulty in the schools I have worked in seems to be, sadly, a disregard by both the children and parents that behaving properly and with respect towards others is an essential part of life. I would hasten to add that this disregard only affects a very small number, but they can make your job difficult nonetheless.
Yet, I don't think belting the child is going to make a skerrick of difference to this, whereas modelling tolerance and calmly dealing with problems is more likely to have long term benefits, if not for the little darling causing all the havoc then at least for the other children who see you handling problems without resorting to physical violence.
I always think of the classic lines by Lennon in 'Working Class Hero', when he says "They hurt you at home and they hit you at school". It's a terrible, sad image - I'm glad to be teaching in an era when the strap is something you tell your students about ("In the bad old days etc...") and we all have a good laugh in disbelief about it.
My children have been left school a few years now but i wouldn't of had a problem with them receiving the slipper or belt. Some say its down to the parents.........SORRY but i don't agree. 3 of mine were near on perfect at school , 1 was a total idiot, always in trouble, and causing trouble. They were all brought up the same so why did we have one turn out "bad "?????? Saying all that hes now the one who has his own business and works hard ,always looking out for others, helping the elderly, and doing what he can for others. Were very proud of him ! Jan x
I have said no but there definately needs to be some overhaul of the system. I do like jeemags post. If my child is out of line in school in any way I personally would want to be told at once.
Brandy I am sorry but I think it really should be the other way round,primary school children most of the time would not do much to warrant corporal punishment whereas high school kids may do!I have worked for a lot of years with children,not as a teacher but I have seen what an unruly teenager can do and I have to admit that at times I was very scared for my own and others safety and the only things we could do were to ground them,(which meant that they were stuck in and usually causing more trouble because they were annoyed at being grounded),remove tv's hifi's etc which again meant that they would be wandering around annoying others because they were "bored".In my teenage years we got a good wallop if we did wrong and it didn't harm me.I must admit I myself was a horrible brat of a teen but my Mam & Dad didn't put up with it.Mam regularly dished out a slap,Dad just shook his head most of the time, but once he did smack me and you know what...I never ever did anything like it again as I was so gutted that my perfect lovely Dad had been driven to smack me :( x
I think admonishing children in any way is counter productive and can lead to deep psychological damage which can present itself in later life as a tendency to become aggressive and violent.
The poor dear who have become mass murderers have usually been spoken to harshly in their childhood.
Children should be allowed the freedom to explore their capabilities in their own way by using their own methods. Restricting their behaviour in any way can create grave dangers for society in the long run.
I think admonishing children in any way is counter productive and can lead to deep psychological damage which can present itself in later life as a tendency to become aggressive and violent.
The poor dear who have become mass murderers have usually been spoken to harshly in their childhood.
Children should be allowed the freedom to explore their capabilities in their own way by using their own methods. Restricting their behaviour in any way can create grave dangers for society in the long run.
Jaws... I do hope your tongue was lodged firmly in your cheek whilst you wrote this!
well being a mother of 8 i agree with punishment in schools.It never did me any harm, BUT. i also think it is down to the parents to make sure that by the time their children get to school age they have respect for others...I am lucky as none of my kids have ever caused any problems at school and so should never need to be punished...
I can only hope that it stays that way.Teachers should be given more rights to deal with unruly children and until it happens then i think the kids that cause trouble for others should be dealt with out of the school, and with the aide of the parents....Many people are very quick to say yes lets bring it back but it can backfire very quickly....
Get em when thay are young and teach them manners, respect without all the nastiness and they should never need to be told off and they would come to enjoy school as much as they should....
Boozeburglar
21-Aug-07, 14:46
Personally I would introduce Capital punishment.
We could reduce class sizes for the older kids who have important exams.
Whatever we do the punishment should be handed out fairly, and should not involve a phone call home so that child A can get away with what child B get punished for.
Personally I would introduce Capital punishment.
We could reduce class sizes for the older kids who have important exams.
I guess that is one way to do it.[lol]
I've always thought they should bring back capital punishment, thats for another thread though. Right now I'd settle for the strap.[lol]
Hi Folks,
For me it is quite basic!
Hitting people is wrong....hitting people who are smaller than you, is both wrong and raises a lot of questions about you and your suitability to teach.
As a teacher you have had training in these things and should not have to resort to methods that frankly are going to impinge on your future abilities to teach..and even simply, relate to, that child.
I recall vividly, the 'violent' teachers we had..but nothing of what they tried to teach..I was too scared to do anything wrong and that is what I was concentrating on.
Violence has no place in our society, and most assuredly not in our schools.
karia
Hi Folks,
For me it is quite basic!
Hitting people is wrong....hitting people who are smaller than you, is both wrong and raises a lot of questions about you and your suitability to teach.
As a teacher you have had training in these things and should not have to resort to methods that frankly are going to impinge on your future abilities to teach..and even simply, relate to, that child.
I recall vividly, the 'violent' teachers we had..but nothing of what they tried to teach..I was too scared to do anything wrong and that is what I was concentrating on.
Violence has no place in our society, and most assuredly not in our schools.
karia
I agree !!!
I just voted no, and I'm a parent and a teacher. Frankly, the idea of corporal punishment seems weird in this day and age and I'd hate to be handed a strap and told to deal out blows for any kind of infraction. I'd feel degraded and I think the children would too.
Good post Mr Squiggle.
It's often been said in threads like this "oh, it never did me any harm". Well, that's a matter of opinion.
Even though I can only talk for myself, i've been around long enough to know that most if not all people I have met and formed any type of relationship with have been wounded and scarred on a level where most of us are, if not aware of, at least tend to ignore. None of them however have gone on to become mass murderers.
That bit is in response to Jaws post and although I suspect his compassion does not extend to dealing with such psychological truamas, he at least in his very own style seems to acknowledge they may exist.
Parents are an easy target when it comes to childrens behaviour, but parents are only one cog in a very large wheel. Although I can accept parents as being a major influence in the development of children, parent bashing alone is not the complete problem, neither is it any kind of solution.
Childrens behaviour depends on a number of exterior influences.
Society and the culture that society has created is one. Maybe that's 2?
What about the education system itself?
Our children are conscripted for a minumun of eleven years by the state and when many of these children fail or rebel, we still blame the parents. Well, wait a minute. 11 years at school 40 weeks a year 5 days a week. Can I safely say that school itself has a responsability to all cildren, and more importantly, thier needs?
Someone said that only one tenth of childrens time is spent ar school. Even if those figure were correct, school must bare some responsability for the finished product.
How come many kids are leaving school unable to read and write properly. Were these kids always delinquent, or did they join school at age 5 and steadily decline? Do teachers have any responsability in childrens schooling?
What about headmasters? I've worked in building all my life and most jobs, especially bigger jobs, are flavoured by the character and personality of the site agent and company policy, but, and it's a big but, the site agents personality and ability permeate al corners of a building site through his foremen and yes men and no men. Are schools different?
Imagine a school run by Jaws and then imagine a school run by Mr Squiggle.
PS. No belting! I used to get belted regularly for not knowing the sequence of i and e in words. I still don't know where the i and e go in some words although Ive heard a poem many times explaing the spelling I'm blowed if I can remember it 2 minutes later.
karia well said thats it no ifs an buts.
yes soon i hope.spare the rod spoil the child
Jaws... I do hope your tongue was lodged firmly in your cheek whilst you wrote this!Well, I have heard every one of those comments made at one time or another. There was a Private School about 30 years ago in Wales where the pupils made their own rules, behaved as they wished, decided which lessons they should go to and if they should bother at all.
At the time it was just an extreme example of some of the thought processes of the time.
After that I am willing to believe any excuse, however ridiculous, that is put forward to explain why children should not receive a punishment which fits their behaviour.
There will always be somebody who will claim that children will be damaged whatever kind of punishment is suggested and that anybody who thinks otherwise is some kind of sadistic monster.
......... There will always be somebody who will claim that children will be damaged whatever kind of punishment is suggested and that anybody who thinks otherwise is some kind of sadistic monster.
Well, at least it's official now then - I'm a sadistic monster!
(Just wait till we've moved to Ireland & they dig the patio up...) :eek:
Just kidding! [lol]
I dont beleive that children should be given the strap at school. I went to school in the days when strapping was acceptable and i would not allow any of those teachers or anyone to hit my child. I have used smacking as a punishment and i beleive that it has a place in the home where it is part of a regime of loving discipline but school is very different to that and i would not allow it.
Having three boys already i have seen good discipline and bad discipline in schools. the punishments that worked with my boys - and none of them were ever really out of control - were always those that made them face up to what they had done, were above all fair, involved us as parents, did not allow the behaviour to go unpunished and explained to the child in question exactly what the problem was.
I liek jeemags zero toerance as it was always worse for the boys to see our disapproval when we had to be brought out of school
lady penelope
22-Aug-07, 19:18
I think teachers these days have enough to deal with. Most of the childen who may 'benefit' from corporal punishment would probably retaliate or have their parents come in and cause trouble for the school.
On the other hand there are some very sadistic teachers who love dishing out punishments now. What if they had a 'weapon' in their hands![disgust]
oldmarine
23-Aug-07, 04:01
I'm 82 years of age and received corporal punishment in school. As I look back on my escapades in school, I realise I deserved everything I got. Thankfully my children never did anything to receive corporal punishment. If they would have, I'm not sure how I would have felt about the situation.
111heather
23-Aug-07, 11:37
hi most kids want to be excluded from school. it seems to be that they think it is fun [a no school today what can we get up to ].go to the school and harase the teatchers.stand out side an have a smoke they cant do anything about it ha ha.A lot of kids get put out off school for the stupid of things these days.
hi most kids want to be excluded from school. it seems to be that they think it is fun [a no school today what can we get up to ].go to the school and harase the teatchers.stand out side an have a smoke they cant do anything about it ha ha.A lot of kids get put out off school for the stupid of things these days.
That is where Jeemag's (and others') suggestion to make sure the parents take responsibility for their children is a very good one.
Excluding pupils in Scotland is a formal procedure and is not something that is taken lightly so I am not sure where your idea that they are excluded for "stupid of things these days" is coming from.
I am on two school boards and I can confirm Tristan's claim that exclusion is not taken lightly. It can be nigh on impossible to throw out even the most troublesome little toe-rags. The same goes for puling the parents into line. The doctrine of social inclusion and rampant political correctness from educationalists are tough bedfellows to boot out, but we shall overcome if we all pull hard enough in the same direction.
The answer to the question is 'no', as if I needed to elaborate it.
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