View Full Version : Foot & Mouth in cattle confirmed in Surrey?
Foot & Mouth in cattle confirmed in Surrey? anyone any further news?
NickInTheNorth
03-Aug-07, 21:41
please god, no!
Where did you hear this bekisman? I really hope and pray this is not true.
(And I don't even believe in god!)
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/6930684.stm
here it is
Saw a mention on Sky at first, but thanks corgiman. I seem to remember that after the last disaster the 'authorities' are going to inoculate instead of burning? anyone elaborate on this?
I really don't know but after the last fiasco lets hope they can act faster this time and get it right:mad:
NickInTheNorth
03-Aug-07, 22:03
sorry to say:
http://www.defra.gov.uk/news/2007/070803e.htm
It's confirmed.
I just hope that this time the whole episode will be handled properly, and that it is over with very quickly. But I have a nasty suspicion that it will be as bad as last time.
Seems that Cobra, the Civil Contingencies Committee (Whatever thier exact role is) has met and the PM is returning to Westminster to co-ordinate matters.
So far it is restricted to one farm near Guildford. Was suspected last night and confirmed around 1900 this evening.
The cattle involved will be culled and cattle and pig movement has been stopped across the whole of the UK. They are advising that all livestock should be checked ASAP.
It's being covered in detail on the TV News.
The last episode, if I remember correctly, was made worse because the owner of the pig farm where the outbreak occurred covered it up for some time and moved pigs to other areas and to market before anything could be done.
I assume that will be the end of the summer animal shows eg Keith next weekend
connieb19
03-Aug-07, 22:12
Must be gutting news for farmers, especially seeing as so many have lost their crops to the floods. :(
Sheep movements have also been banned what a horrible time of year for it to start (Not that anytime is good). The main sales are mostly in the next two months, so its not looking to good for us. It puts shivers up my spine just to think of it.
Sheep movements have also been banned what a horrible time of year for it to start (Not that anytime is good). The main sales are mostly in the next two months, so its not looking to good for us. It puts shivers up my spine just to think of it.
Movements are allowed, under license, but yes, markets will be banned.
percy toboggan
03-Aug-07, 22:54
The last thing this country needed.
Let's hope any lessons learned are put into immediate effect.
I'm not a rural bloke except when it's holiday time - I hope it's not too rough on all concerned.
Seems ever since the glorious millennium there has been little but bad news.
An early test of Brown's mettle. Just as he starts his holiday.
My heart sank tonight as read about foot and mouth rearing it's ugly head once again. :cry: The government at least has had the sense to put an immediate ban on all livestock movement which they didn't do last time and hopefully this time they have plans in place on how best to deal with the outbreak.
KEEP_ON_TRUCKIN
03-Aug-07, 23:33
its tragic isnt it, you're right about shivers up spine...cant believe it....there was a suspected case at dornoch lamb about 6 weeks ago but it turned out to be orf and it was panic stations then....but this the real thing is just an absolute disaster.... just hope we are all clear of it.... wonder where on earth it has come from, Turriff, Dumfries and Keith all cancelled.
This is an absolute nightmare for anyone with livestock, lets hope it will just be a one off. Thanks for the info on the shows.
KEEP_ON_TRUCKIN
04-Aug-07, 00:03
yeah orkney shows cancelled as well.... i just cant imagine what its like in the marquee at turriff just now their show dance is on tonight... i was supposed to be there......what will it be like there with the news spreading round :-(
I didn't want to believe this when I heard it earlier. Devastating news and such a worry for the farmers. :(
just total devastation hopefully this time be contained
please no more snaps of pires !!!
AX:confused
I think this is devastating news that will naturally worry every farmer in the UK. As a Cumbrian, it seems only so recently that I could smell the pyres burning, a sensation that will never leave you. Not to mention the sensation that one day to find that the fields are empty where the day before they were just teeming with sheep, surreal and spooky.
I am not an expert in agricultural diseases or economics and I am not drifting to any point of view on this matter, but, F&M is a disease that cattle usually fully recover from and it is extremely rare for humans to catch. So on the face of this situation, what is the source of the biggest concern? Certainly, animal and human health is not seriously threatened, given that a few precautions have taken place.
The biggest cause for concern is not to health but to business, money and the health status of the nation to export animal products. We can still have a beef industry with endemic occurances of F&M, we just produce for the home market.
However, personally speaking, as someone who is totally against animal exports anyway (live or dead, I can't see the merit in exporting x million tonnes of beef abroad, only to have a similar amount imported), I would not be too phased by the UK's international standing to be affected. The reason being, I don't eat red meat on the grounds of animal welfare and for environmental reasons, (it takes 10 lbs of plant food to make one lb of beef).
Let us hope that this crisis (hopefully a mini one) can be sorted out and the farming industry is little affected without the repeat of 2001.
neepnipper
04-Aug-07, 08:16
This is awful. lived through it down in Devon and the smell of the burning animals was horrible.
Looked at DEFRA website and says there are to be no animal movements, does that include horses as I'm meant to be taking my Shetland to the farrier today.
This is awful. lived through it down in Devon and the smell of the burning animals was horrible.
Looked at DEFRA website and says there are to be no animal movements, does that include horses as I'm meant to be taking my Shetland to the farrier today.
Dreadful news, indeed. I think it does mean ALL livestock, including horses. There was talk on the BBC news this am about what would happen to the horses at a riding stable near the affected farm. If they test pos. they would have to be put down as well..
I do hope that the out break is contained and they find the source this time.
connieb19
04-Aug-07, 09:48
its tragic isnt it, you're right about shivers up spine...cant believe it....there was a suspected case at dornoch lamb about 6 weeks ago but it turned out to be orf and it was panic stations then....but this the real thing is just an absolute disaster.... just hope we are all clear of it.... wonder where on earth it has come from, Turriff, Dumfries and Keith all cancelled.
It says on the News that the Turriff show is going ahead without cattle, sheep or goats.
Horses; a bit more info: http://www.farm-direct.co.uk/faq/fmd/v2/index.html (http://www.farm-direct.co.uk/faq/fmd/v2/index.html) Horses are resistant to FMD infection themselves, but can spread infection by carrying virus on tack, their body, or mud on their hooves from an infected area to an uninfected area.
Non-cloven hoofed animals known to catch FMD naturally include hedgehogs, rats, cats, and dogs. At least 16 other types of animals including mice and guinea pigs can be infected with FMD in the laboratory. Dogs and cats can catch FMD, but (as with humans) this is very rare.
But then: http://www.bbc.co.uk/tyne/footandmouth/thefacts.shtml (http://www.bbc.co.uk/tyne/footandmouth/thefacts.shtml) :Foot-and-mouth does not affect dogs, cats, or horses.
no doubt there is a definitive answer somewhere..
KEEP_ON_TRUCKIN
04-Aug-07, 10:03
sorry yeah - all these shows are cancelled as far as livestock is concerned.....horses are seemingly able to attend Turriff and Orkney but im not sure about other shows....however last time round the movement of horses was also affected and race meets were cancelled so it may come yet.
as far as horses are concerned they maybe able to transport the disease on their hooves, via horseboxes etc but they cannot CONTRACT the disease as they are not cloven hoofed.....
I think this is devastating news that will naturally worry every farmer in the UK. As a Cumbrian, it seems only so recently that I could smell the pyres burning, a sensation that will never leave you. Not to mention the sensation that one day to find that the fields are empty where the day before they were just teeming with sheep, surreal and spooky.
Yes, I remember driving with hubby from Blackpool to Cambridge during the last outbreak - we spurned the motorway & travelled on the A roads - even as a townie I found it heartbreakingly eerie, with all the miles & miles of empty fields.
I do so hope that this time around is different. :~(
neepnipper
04-Aug-07, 12:09
It was ok to take my pony to the farrier as long as we went straight there and straight back, I did explain that he is grazing with a goat but they said as long as he didn't come in contact with any other animals it was fine, all done now and he's safely back in the field.
This really does have a devastating effect on the whole of the countryside, I hope the case in Surrey can be isolated and it won't turn out like last time.
NickInTheNorth
04-Aug-07, 12:18
apparently there are 60 infected animals. I suspect therefore the infection has been there at least a few days, I'm guessing that the genie is out the bottle, and won't be easily put back in.
I hope I'm wrong.
I suppose we will find out over the next few day but lets just hope there are no greedy idiots like the guy up west last time who actually tried to get infected animals :eek: I remember reading about it at the time but can't remember what the actual outcome of the case was.
northener
04-Aug-07, 12:42
Part of the reason for the widespread nature of the last horrendous outbreak was the lethargic reaction of DEFRA in restricting movement.
Hopefully, lessons have been learned and the rapid clampdown that we are beginning to experience will keep the FMD in a small contained area.
Yup, it was horrendous last time. Dropped the dog off at our local kennels to go away for a weekend. We had to drive for about half a mile up a gated road across fields full of ewes and young lambs to get there.
Came back two days later to empty fields and a huge funeral pyre in one corner of a field. That image will stay with me for the rest of my life.
On a different note, the new abbotoiur/abbotoir/abbot -dammit- slaughterhouse at Keiss will hopefully cut down the amount of travelling livestock have to do in the Far North. Must be a good thing for animal welfare as well as FMD risk reduction.
Fingers Crossed.
I really, really hope that this is an isolated case and things don't get 'out of control' like last time. Hopefully, lessons will have been learned.
I feel for all farmers, crofters etc as it must be a very worrying time for them.:(
I would think that the problem is not the horse but the vehicle that it is in, so I would think that you have to have a license to move it. Defra has a helpline for this outbreak that might be able to help you: 08459 335577
all the experts keep saying innoculation is the answer so why didn't they innoculate after the last outbreak?
On a different note, the new abbotoiur/abbotoir/abbot -dammit- slaughterhouse at Keiss will hopefully cut down the amount of travelling livestock have to do in the Far North. Must be a good thing for animal welfare as well as FMD risk reduction.
Fingers Crossed.
Ah... can I ask - does this slaughterhouse (abattoir) sell direct to the public?
In Kent, my ex-stepdad often bought 'half a cow/half a pig'...etc etc direct from a local place & it was the best ever - my hubby also used a local abattoir in Durham & agrees.
I'd much rather buy my meat this way, even if it works out slightly more expensive - at least you know it's fresh & not 'plastic' like we buy in the supermarkets.
And I have a delightful freezer tucked away in our cellar which would be dusted off once we move & ready to use!
Julie.
KEEP_ON_TRUCKIN
04-Aug-07, 16:30
HORSES - are not being restricted at the moment, they are still being allowed to travel and attend shows at the moment but there may be further restrictions especially to those living on farms, no licences are required to move them at present but people are urged to use their social responsibility to be sensible about where and what they move and take an necessary precautions.
SLAUGHTERHOUSE - is not up and running yet so doesnt sell anything to anyone.
INNOCULATIONS - corigman, there are many different strains of the FMD disease and this is why innoculations were not carried out..... its a bit like internet virus - your software is only as good as its updates, with new strains emerging and developing it would be a constant econmic and welfare battle to keep on top of vaccinations. At present they are not ruling out vaccinations in the 2007 outbreak but what they first need to establish is which strain it is and if they have the antigens to produce a vaccination.
all the experts keep saying innoculation is the answer so why didn't they innoculate after the last outbreak?
Because with many diseases the UK strives to attain "free off" status (to be free of certain diseases is valuble in economic terms). If animals are innoculated they are to all intents and purposes positive to the disease. The country would no longer be free of the disease (what is measured is the animals immune reaction to exposure. That reaction will not be specific enough to tell pathological exposure from an immune response due to vaccination).Aside from that, the vaccine is not very effective in the sense that the F&M virus is very variable and the vaccine tends to be specific to certain strains of the virus. Vaccination against 2001 strain would not necessarily protect against 2007 one. It would also be impossible to tell as yet assimptomatic animals that are positive from those that are vaccinated.
So a bit like the myxomatosis vaccine you can give it but because the virus keeps shifting it could be useless, and without an outbreak they can't vaccinate them.
orkneylass
04-Aug-07, 16:44
yeah orkney shows cancelled as well.... i just cant imagine what its like in the marquee at turriff just now their show dance is on tonight... i was supposed to be there......what will it be like there with the news spreading round :-(
We were at our local East mainland show in Orkney today and it was a bit of a damp squib - still has horses and poultry so my long-held fantasy that a duck will win champion of the yard may come true!!!!!
KEEP_ON_TRUCKIN
04-Aug-07, 16:58
oh yeah go on the duck least that might lift a few spirits, least the shows still going ahead without the cattle and sheep try and keep up a bit of morale....who knows with any luck it will have been contained and there will be good news at the beginning of the week!!!
northener
04-Aug-07, 16:59
[quote=jsherris;250934]Ah... can I ask - does this slaughterhouse (abattoir) sell direct to the public?
quote]
Sorry, can't help you with that, they're still building it at the moment!
all the experts keep saying innoculation is the answer so why didn't they innoculate after the last outbreak?
The news now thinks it is the vacines lab that has caused the outbreak.............
What is the world coming too...
Diane
As divanp75 says it looks like the source may be the lab. The strain in the cattle is the same manufactured in the lab. This also means it could be airborne with the potential to have already spread 60+ miles.
Sorry, my references for the bit about horses were based on the initial news. I think they were referring to the close proximity of the stables to the farm.:o
A government funded lab is most likely to have been the source of the current outbreak of Foot and Mouth. Wasn't it "possibly" government related the last time. People were jumping on the bandwagon saying it was the way farms were run was reason for Foot and Mouth. Do you think the government will be giving all us farmers the difference in the drop in prices we will more than likely have to take when we do get our animals sold and for the extra food we are having to feed them. I feel really sorry for the farmers at the centre of this outbreak as by the look of things they could have done nothing to have stopped this outbreak as it was out of their hands.
anneoctober
05-Aug-07, 09:30
We were at our local East mainland show in Orkney today and it was a bit of a damp squib - still has horses and poultry so my long-held fantasy that a duck will win champion of the yard may come true!!!!!
Orkneylass, how did the show turn out? Did your duckie win??:)
A government funded lab is most likely to have been the source of the current outbreak of Foot and Mouth. Wasn't it "possibly" government related the last time. People were jumping on the bandwagon saying it was the way farms were run was reason for Foot and Mouth. Do you think the government will be giving all us farmers the difference in the drop in prices we will more than likely have to take when we do get our animals sold and for the extra food we are having to feed them. I feel really sorry for the farmers at the centre of this outbreak as by the look of things they could have done nothing to have stopped this outbreak as it was out of their hands.
Foot and mouth exists in nature. The 2001 outbreak was a natural infection due to the farmer feeding his pigs untreated catering waste that happened to be infected with the virus. It propagates very easily, even with draconian measures put in place. In 2001 it took almost a week to ban all movements. Aside from that there were less scrupulous farmers who were actually trying to get infected. When they were doing this, they were affecting not only their own farm, but also every farm within hundreds of miles of their own premises and the route traveled to get there. Banning all movements and culling would not garantee containing the disease, but not doing so straight away definately helped to spread it.
I agree with what you are saying but the farm in 2001 was government owned by what I can rememberand took over three weeks from when it was detected until it was announced that foot and mouth was found, and this time it has probably come out of a lab which has been using the foot and mouth virus in a vaccine. This strain has not been found in livestock since 1966 and Pirbright seems to be to blame and not the farmer who has found foot and mouth in his herd.
orkneylass
05-Aug-07, 11:31
Orkneylass, how did the show turn out? Did your duckie win??:)
Nope - it was a horse called Million Dollar Baby, but the poultry section was superb and it's one of my favourite bits anyway. No idea what will happen with the county show next week - hope they do not cancel as so many charities have stalls to raise funds.
anneoctober
05-Aug-07, 12:12
Nope - it was a horse called Million Dollar Baby, but the poultry section was superb and it's one of my favourite bits anyway. No idea what will happen with the county show next week - hope they do not cancel as so many charities have stalls to raise funds.
I canna see the Orcadians doing that, they've always struck me as friendly, no nonsense people (like yourself). I'm sure the County show will take place, if I can persuade my hubby to take time away from garage, we'll be there. ;) Sounds like the judges were swayed by horse's name !! You was robbed! :lol:
I agree with what you are saying but the farm in 2001 was government owned by what I can rememberand took over three weeks from when it was detected until it was announced that foot and mouth was found, and this time it has probably come out of a lab which has been using the foot and mouth virus in a vaccine. This strain has not been found in livestock since 1966 and Pirbright seems to be to blame and not the farmer who has found foot and mouth in his herd.
I don't know if the farm from 2001 was owned by the government, but I do know that it was managed by an individual who was fattening pigs for slaughter. He might have been renting from the government ( though this strikes me as odd). I believe it took 6 days to determine movement bans in certain areas (not the nationwide ban instantly instituted now).
As for the labs, they HAVE to stock pile these viruses so they have readily accessible resoures for when there are outbreaks. They also have to have very tight biosecurity, that obviously failed in this case. It isn't clear yet if the failure was Merial's ( a private pharmaceutical company) or the institute for animal health, which share a site.
This episode makes me think about polio and small pox. They are stocked in laboratories as well. Would it be better to destroy them, hoping that they are the only existing samples. Or would it be best to keep them incase there are other samples that might fall into the wrong hands, but in keeping them, run the risk of security failures?
The Sky news reported that the strain in the farm was almost identical to the strain in the Pirbright lab. In my book, that means the two strains are not identical?:confused Of course, it could have mutated to explain it.
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