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shun
15-Jun-05, 11:04
Do you think caithness companies advertise their products successfully? which companies, in your own opinion, have the best advertising campaigns?

webmannie
15-Jun-05, 11:39
Why do you ask?

shun
15-Jun-05, 11:43
i have just read the groat and have noticed Aurora's advert. just thought it was a nice advert and thought it to be rather effective. wondered what other peoples views are on advertising in the caithness area in general

kat311
15-Jun-05, 13:10
Some companys in Caithness advertise well but I think its about time Caithness was advertised. Caithness has an image problem and with a bit of imagination I think Caithness could look very attractive to tourists and even new businesses.

shun
15-Jun-05, 13:25
i was actually at camster cairns on sunday and think it is a beautiful place. i would go as far as saying it is far nicer than maes howe in orkney. i think that caithness should have more tourist advertising as the place is steeped in history and beautiful landscapes

kat311
15-Jun-05, 13:28
Orkney has a good image and they have a good tourist industry. Many tourist travel through Caithness to get to Orkney with a bit of advertising they many stay in Caithness a while longer!

caithnessgirl
15-Jun-05, 13:34
Caithness is a nice place, and im sure there are plenty of things tourists would enjoy, we just really need to get our backsides into gear and get some advertising done and make it that bit more appealing to them!! :)

shun
15-Jun-05, 13:38
do you know any advertising agencies that deal with this sort of thing?

kat311
15-Jun-05, 13:39
I am with you caithnessgirl. Caithness has alot to offer but many don't know about what is going on!

shun
15-Jun-05, 13:41
i have heard their might be a new company being setup called caithness tours or something - they provide tours around caithness for people and groups. lets hope they do an advertising campaign of their own and hopefully people will jump on the bandwagon

caithnessgirl
15-Jun-05, 14:03
i have heard their might be a new company being setup called caithness tours or something - they provide tours around caithness for people and groups. lets hope they do an advertising campaign of their own and hopefully people will jump on the bandwagon

There are a couple of these wee minibus tours already i think, thats not very interesting tho, to be perfectly honest! something needs to be done before this place goes completely downhill!!

BazzaG
15-Jun-05, 14:07
I agree with caithnessgirl, caithness has alot to offer but more advertising would do the industries up her a world of good. Its fine people from down south knowing about JOG's but there is a lot more to caithness than just one place.

kat311
15-Jun-05, 14:09
CASE should do something surely, or even the local council. They should want to help the businesses that are here already.

shun
15-Jun-05, 14:27
maybe historic scotland, scottish tourist board, CASE and visitscotland could do a joint venture?

scorrie
15-Jun-05, 15:34
Caithness needs to become more tourist friendly. The simple fact is that shop staff are more interested in getting home for their Tea than staying open to serve tourists. I am sure many who visited go home to tell their friends and family "Oh, we went to Caithness, it was shut"

Caithness, anything after 4.50 PM is overtime!!

shun
15-Jun-05, 15:47
I find that quite funny that shops are shut at lunchtimes and are not open till maybe 5:30pm so it gives people a chance to come in after work. its like businesses are not wanting to have customers. lunchtime and 30mins after work, i would think, are probably the busiest time for local retailers

Bobinovich
15-Jun-05, 18:56
The idea of a joint venture between stakeholders in the tourism industry has been mooted before but, as usual, trying to get anything started is like pulling teeth.

The problem is that getting the big fish (CASE, STB, etc.) to work together is a nightmare but it's also up to the smaller fry (Dounreay (yes small!), B&B's, hotels, campsites, restaurants, gift shops, and any others who rely on tourists to boost their season sales & services) to get involved and give the big guns a push.

There was a female Canadian student working locally last year for a few months and she complied a report on things to do, places to go and see, and how to get there, etc. and it was the best tourism guide to Caithness & North Sutherland I've seen bar none. It was independent, comprehensive and totally un-funded as she did it as partof her university thesis!

What's needed is a well funded (mainly by the big fish with maybe some financial input by the small fry) independent individual or group to take all the information and put together a professional booklet and/or a DVD. This should then be thoroughly advertised on TV, radio, Internet etc. where interested parties could call a number for a free copy to be sent - a la Disneyland.

At the end of the day someone needs to make the first move and arrange a meeting with the large group to sound out enthusiasm, and then to work out the costs involved, funding sources, who to get involved, etc.

My thoughts...

George Brims
15-Jun-05, 21:22
Is that student's report available anywhere online Bobinovich?

webmannie
16-Jun-05, 00:48
I believe a large number of stakeholders (including someone very significant) have been working on how to market Caithness, a meeting was held recently at Dunrobin Castle.

It was all in the papers, nobody read it?

Tugmistress
16-Jun-05, 01:26
:D
feeling quite chuffed with myself after reading this thread so far :D

Our website is aimed to help to promote our local area by publishing things of interest.
Since my detailed hit counter went up last week i have had repeated visits from Australia, New Zealand, Holland, Germany, Italy, Canada, Mexico & Turkey. :cool: :lol:
With members signing up from as far away as the United States I reckon we could do a lot more to advertise the County.
It is interesting what different organisations are viewing our site ;)

fred
16-Jun-05, 09:52
Caithness needs to become more tourist friendly. The simple fact is that shop staff are more interested in getting home for their Tea than staying open to serve tourists. I am sure many who visited go home to tell their friends and family "Oh, we went to Caithness, it was shut"

That just reminded me of something someone did say about Caithness, in one of the first Atlases of Scotland published in 1654.

"Throughout the whole region many castles, estates, and villages (for this province is quite well populated) are scattered here and there according to the suitability of the locations, some not to be despised with more elegant buildings. But the genius of the place and the nature of the inhabitants leads to indulgence in food and drink and living pleasantly and joyfully for the day, rather than to turning the mind to construction."

The one thing Caithness does have to offer is a different pace of life, it is the genius of the place, look after it. No one will bother to come here if it is just like where they live.

kat311
16-Jun-05, 13:22
I think that customer service has in Caithness can be greatly improved. Tourists like to be taken care of, enjoy thier stay etc. I know from experience that some shops/restuarants lack customer skills.

You are more likely to say you have had a bad experience than a good!

weeboyagee
16-Jun-05, 13:45
NO.

In a word Caithness does not advertise itself well. :( I travel a great deal nationally meeting lots of different people from quite diverse backgrounds and when you tell them you're from Caithness a lot of them immediately look at you thus: :confused or thus: :roll:

I attend functions south of the Ord so often and the groups I go to support only come to a function in Caithness as a favour in return - not because they genuinely want to come to Caithness - and I only chance getting them to come o'er the Ord once a year!

We may think that we have a county that's worth visiting but that's not the point. We have to put ourselves in the shoes of the visitor and ask ourselves the questions - Why should I go to Caithness? What's there to do? What's there to see? What are the people like? What can my kids do - younger and older kids?

Most of all we have to convince them that it is worth the "Slog" of a journey - because, like it or not, that's what most of them see about the journey - they think it is an effort. If tourists simply like travelling and are going to go round Scotland - how do we let them know that Caithness is worth the calling on?

And by the way - there is local, national and international advertising. The sure way to get increased number of visitors is to get the ones who DO come here to go back with such a good experience they tell everyone about it. And sorry - for my money when I travel south of the Ord, generally the shops ARE open during lunchtime and all day Saturday, people DO understand that they are there for your convenience and they are MORE considerate to the needs of the tourist or visitor than we are here in Caithness. We have a lot to learn.

Our best advert is the people who go away and tell everyone of THE BEST FANTASTIC experience they had - good or great is NO use. They will tell people of the BAD experience at the drop of a hat, but to praise the county - it has to have been that something extra special - something they haven't experinced elsewhere - or was unique about our county. I'm sure it is there - we just need to be more understanding of our potential visitors wants and expectations - and exceed in our delivery when they get here!

WBG :cool:

Whitewater
16-Jun-05, 14:20
Very good weeboyagee.

I have just returned from a weekend in Orkney. There is no comparison, everywhere there is tourist orientated, as soon as you get ashore the tour buses are on hand to load you on immediately with a proper and well informed guided tour which takes you to all the places of interest as well as organised stops at first class resturants for lunch etc.

However, they do not really open up until midday on Sundays and I know from talking to some of the local people that this is causing a problem, as they were successful in attracting something like 10 or 12 stopovers for cruise ships this year and when the passengers come ashore there is nowhere open. A few of the residents are concerned that they might not have the stopovers next year as the majority of local shopowners are not interested in opening on Sunday mornings.

So you see it isn't just Caithness shopowners that cause problems.

garycs
16-Jun-05, 15:16
I live on the edge of the Lake District (mainly because my wife was born here) and to be honest think it is one of the most unpleasant places to be for more than half of the year due to the huge numbers of visitors, even out of season the area is still busy due to the proximity to large cities and increasing population of Cumbrian towns.

Caithness and the Northern parts of Sutherland have a tiny population in comparison to Cumbria, less than 10%, so it doesn't need to attract vast numbers of visitors; even a modest increase in tourism would have a significant effect on the economy.

Customer service is generally not as good in Caithness as elsewhere, there is almost the rural Spanish "manana" attitude, in many ways that is appealing (although is is really doing my head in at the moment :( ) as it demonstrates how relaxed life is in the county. There are exceptions however, everywhere I've had a meal has been superb food and service, the caravan site near Lidl are also very efficient.

Distance seems to be an issue for many of my friends, I can enthuse about the beachs, wildlife, coastline, flow country for hours, then question comes "so where is Caithness?", reply "just a couple of hours past Inverness"........"But there is nothing past Inverness" !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

It is in fact only 7 hours from Penrith to Thurso, when I last went to Padstow it took 14 hours for exactly the same distance :eek: In many ways Cornwall and caithness are similar, good beaches and surf, history, etc, but Cornwall has a much larger population, and visitor numbers, which allows investment into family "wet weather" attractions.

Drutt
16-Jun-05, 15:28
In many ways Cornwall and caithness are similar, good beaches and surf, history, etc, but Cornwall has a much larger population, and visitor numbers, which allows investment into family "wet weather" attractions.
They may well be comparable for, say, surfers, but for your average holiday goer the big difference is the weather!

Seriously, if I'm looking for a long weekend in the UK near a beach, Cornwall would be high up on the list. Bournemouth and Brighton have a lot to offer. Caithness wouldn't feature.

Beautiful and remote Caithness may be, but it's just not going to appeal to the people who go to Cornwall. Caithness will always have to find different selling points to the beach resorts on the south coast.

scorrie
16-Jun-05, 15:54
Caithness needs to become more tourist friendly. The simple fact is that shop staff are more interested in getting home for their Tea than staying open to serve tourists. I am sure many who visited go home to tell their friends and family "Oh, we went to Caithness, it was shut"

That just reminded me of something someone did say about Caithness, in one of the first Atlases of Scotland published in 1654.

"Throughout the whole region many castles, estates, and villages (for this province is quite well populated) are scattered here and there according to the suitability of the locations, some not to be despised with more elegant buildings. But the genius of the place and the nature of the inhabitants leads to indulgence in food and drink and living pleasantly and joyfully for the day, rather than to turning the mind to construction."

The one thing Caithness does have to offer is a different pace of life, it is the genius of the place, look after it. No one will bother to come here if it is just like where they live.

Err, how relevant is a comment made in 1654 to matters in the year 2005?

I realise not everywhere can be London or Paris but as far as I can see today's tourists like to travel in comfort and stay in comfort. If we are to have shops with Olde World charm then it will help if they are open for people who come here.

I spoke to an American visitor one day in the Post Office, the lady asked me "Can you go shopping at night here?" To which I replied "Certainly Madam, however that would require breaking and entering because as soon as the scent of Mince and Tatties hits the nostrils the staff are away quicker than Ben Johnson on hearing a sample bottle opening" The wifie took it all in her stride but she was a bit cookie I think, having asked me if the expression for going to the toilet here was "Visiting the Louvre"

Anyway, I think Caithness should make the most of it's natural appeal and step up the customer service to 21st Century levels. Just off to the Louvre now!!

fred
16-Jun-05, 17:20
Err, how relevant is a comment made in 1654 to matters in the year 2005?


Very relevant if not much has changed.



I realise not everywhere can be London or Paris but as far as I can see today's tourists like to travel in comfort and stay in comfort. If we are to have shops with Olde World charm then it will help if they are open for people who come here.


Yeh I see them, staggering up the A9 with packs on their backs with the wind driving the rain into their faces and bright red knees. Them's tourists that likes their comforts I says to myself.

scorrie
16-Jun-05, 20:43
Err, how relevant is a comment made in 1654 to matters in the year 2005?


Very relevant if not much has changed.



I realise not everywhere can be London or Paris but as far as I can see today's tourists like to travel in comfort and stay in comfort. If we are to have shops with Olde World charm then it will help if they are open for people who come here.


Yeh I see them, staggering up the A9 with packs on their backs with the wind driving the rain into their faces and bright red knees. Them's tourists that likes their comforts I says to myself.


Well Fred, I don't think today's tourists are from the 17th Century and only someone very complacent could think that very little has changed in three and a half centuries. Perhaps you might care to re-package the 1654 Atlas as a guide book for today's prospective visitors. Maybe they will stop in for a pint of Mead in the King's Arms before watching the King lose his arms at the public hanging, drawing and quartering in the Market Square.

As for tourists I think there are rather more coming in by luxury coach than the Mr and Mrs Masochist types. I rather suspect they are also the sort that will spend rather more money here while the Masos are snuggled up in their tents devouring sardines from the tin and drinking savers coffee from their thermos.

Coincidentally 1654 is about the time most shops here are closed of an evening. Of course that matters not as the tourists are only here for the genius of the place. Lights out before 5, now that is the Dark Ages!!

fred
16-Jun-05, 22:39
Well Fred, I don't think today's tourists are from the 17th Century and only someone very complacent could think that very little has changed in three and a half centuries. Perhaps you might care to re-package the 1654 Atlas as a guide book for today's prospective visitors. Maybe they will stop in for a pint of Mead in the King's Arms before watching the King lose his arms at the public hanging, drawing and quartering in the Market Square.


I think it would be a very good idea to market the qualities Caithness has rather than trying to change Caithness to suit the tourists.'

It worked for Ireland, a few adverts with horse drawn caravans on narrow country lanes and a pint of Guiness by a roaring fire on an evening and the stressed out workers were flocking there in the thousands for a fortnight of freedom and relaxation.

Many of those castles mentioned in 1645 are still there and don't have any less history now than they did then. Couple that with good food and drink and the enjoyment of the moment the writer in 1654 found so attractive he described it as genius and you have something you can sell to the masses which we already have, no need to change a thing.

As was said earlier in the thread it's about image and advertising not what time the shops close.

jay
17-Jun-05, 08:40
THere has been a lot of talk about closing times of shops etc, but realistically, how many of our shops would be of interest to tourists? It seems, in Thurso at least, that everytime a shop closes it is replaced by an office, a charity shop or a cafe. Lets face it there is nothing much retail wise in our two major towns to be of interest to your average tourist

scorrie
17-Jun-05, 09:39
Many of those castles mentioned in 1645 are still there and don't have any less history now than they did then. Couple that with good food and drink and the enjoyment of the moment the writer in 1654 found so attractive he described it as genius and you have something you can sell to the masses which we already have, no need to change a thing.

As was said earlier in the thread it's about image and advertising not what time the shops close.

Well hurrah for Caithness, one guy in the 17th Century says nothing need change and that is it done and dusted!! For all the years since then apathy sets in knowing we need do nothing to sell ourselves. Well we have certainly followed the "change nothing" part of it to the letter of the law.

If it is all about image then a walk through Wick does little to promote the county. Boarded up premises, take aways, charity shops and shops that close early. Great imagery. The scenery may be there but the town centres are the first place most people will see.

I look forward to watching those complacent people do nothing and observing our Genius of a county pull in those tourists in huge numbers.

Caithness the County of Complacency and 17th Century Genius
Opening Hours 9.07 am till 12.53 pm and 2.06 pm till 4.54 pm
Sorry we are closed on Wednesday afternoons and all day Sunday
Facility Free since 1654 and proud of it!! Enjoy your stay!!

golach
17-Jun-05, 09:58
scorrie
As an ex-pat Kaitnessian, I was back in Thursa at Easter and I have been away so long I class myself as a "Tourist", I did not come up to shop, I came to see the owld home town, the scenery, the people, there are no closing hours on any of the 3 items stated. And I was not dissapointed, I saw my roots were still embedded there, the scenery just walking along the Victora Walk was better than my owld memory remembered.And the people---- what can I say, we, my wife and I got nothing but kindness as tourists, when I told them of my birth, then the reception was turned up to full volume and we were treated to the best of Caithness hospitality.
So stop running down the best County in Scotland

fred
17-Jun-05, 10:49
Many of those castles mentioned in 1645 are still there and don't have any less history now than they did then. Couple that with good food and drink and the enjoyment of the moment the writer in 1654 found so attractive he described it as genius and you have something you can sell to the masses which we already have, no need to change a thing.

As was said earlier in the thread it's about image and advertising not what time the shops close.

Well hurrah for Caithness, one guy in the 17th Century says nothing need change and that is it done and dusted!! For all the years since then apathy sets in knowing we need do nothing to sell ourselves. Well we have certainly followed the "change nothing" part of it to the letter of the law.

If you mean that Caithness is still being Caithness and not pretending to be somewhere else then I don't think that is a bad thing.


If it is all about image then a walk through Wick does little to promote the county. Boarded up premises, take aways, charity shops and shops that close early. Great imagery. The scenery may be there but the town centres are the first place most people will see.

You don't know what you have or how wonderful it is and you won't untill you lose it.

Tugmistress
17-Jun-05, 11:58
just a quick comment as i have to go to work now, but when making my website i used a couple of forums for technical assistance and i have just had this reply to my query on thoughts about the site,
this is from a bloke in New Zealand

Dang!

My introduction to scotland was a relatively quick trip there when I was 15 (too many years ago), and a high point of hte trip was John O'Groats... Your site makes me want to go visit there again

Nicely done, loads of information, and some aweome photos (that tornado picture is pretty cool).

if you are interested full thread at http://forum.mamboserver.com/showthread.php?t=44984

Bobinovich
17-Jun-05, 12:16
Is that student's report available anywhere online Bobinovich?

Hi George

No I'm afraid I was privvy to a paper copy which then went back to Canada with the student. I have no idea how to get in contact with her either to see if she still has it.

scorrie
17-Jun-05, 14:15
scorrie
As an ex-pat Kaitnessian, I was back in Thursa at Easter and I have been away so long I class myself as a "Tourist", I did not come up to shop, I came to see the owld home town, the scenery, the people, there are no closing hours on any of the 3 items stated. And I was not dissapointed, I saw my roots were still embedded there, the scenery just walking along the Victora Walk was better than my owld memory remembered.And the people---- what can I say, we, my wife and I got nothing but kindness as tourists, when I told them of my birth, then the reception was turned up to full volume and we were treated to the best of Caithness hospitality.
So stop running down the best County in Scotland

I think there is a world of difference between a nostalgia trip and tourism. If people want the type of trip down memory lane you talk about then they will obviously head back to where they were born and not to Thurso. Also you stated that the reception was turned up when you mentioned your birth. That is all very well if all tourists visiting the area are also from Thurso. That should come as standard for all visitors if it is to be true Caithness hospitality.

I live in Caithness, always have done and never had any plans to move anywhere else yet. I'll say it the way I see it and will not be told by anyone what I can and cannot say.

"This is a Partly Political Broadcast for the SNP" :-

"Hello I'm Sean Connery and I am just about to tell you all that is wrong with Scotland, even though I don't live there. I love Scotland so much but like money just that little bit more so I am sorry but I cannot live among my fellow Bravehearts"

Fade to music and song.

"Oh Flower of Tax cuts, when will we see your like again, that bought and paid for my wee bit villa in Spain"

Drutt
17-Jun-05, 14:31
"This is a Partly Political Broadcast for the SNP" :-

"Hello I'm Sean Connery and I am just about to tell you all that is wrong with Scotland, even though I don't live there. I love Scotland so much but like money just that little bit more so I am sorry but I cannot live among my fellow Bravehearts"

Fade to music and song.

"Oh Flower of Tax cuts, when will we see your like again, that bought and paid for my wee bit villa in Spain"
I'll agree, scorrie, that Sean Connery was a most ill-advised poster boy for the SNP. Wouldn't we all love Scotland that little bit more if we lived in a tax haven?

Nevertheless, most of us stick it out and pay our taxes. His hypocrisy in telling us what the SNP could do for our health and our schools while not even bothering to pay his share is just disgusting. [disgust]

badger
18-Jun-05, 19:52
I have always thought the Caithness Explorer is an excellent tourist guide but published much too late. I did ask once why this was as I like to send to friends early in the season and usually have to send the previous year's edition. I was told it was not intended for sending out! It usually comes out in June, or even July, which is much too late. Have not actually seen one yet this year.

Aurora (to go back to the beginning of this topic) stands out amongst most local shops and is in a completely different league, which is probably why its advertising is so good, but then it comes from Orkney. Shops there are amazing compared with Caithness which is a shame. Hobgoblin was a fun shop but sadly has closed. Hope Aurora doesn't go the same way.

Bobinovich
18-Jun-05, 20:33
It could be that advertisers would have better results and more positive feedback regarding their adverts (such as Aurora is having here) if they got a professional designer to do the job rather than let the newspaper produce it for them.

The Groat office don't seem to put much effort into their adverts. You tell them the information you want in the advert and they produce the quickest design they can and then move on - stuff quality or using intelligence to get the best results for the advertiser. A client told me that you don't even get a proof of how your advert is going to look - even if you request one and give them plenty of time to produce it.

I dunno about Wick but there are a number of commercial designers in Thurso - one at Naver House, ROMART, even Millers Pet Shop could produce something marginally better for you. OK it will cost you a bit to get one done in the first place but it'll be cheaper than paying for advertising which doesn't work.

shun
21-Jun-05, 15:28
Do you know how much it is to use these professional designers? which ones in the groat/courier are done by the professionals?

Bobinovich
21-Jun-05, 21:16
I dunno how much - if you're interested then give them a phone or visit their respective websites (www.naver.co.uk, www.rom-art.co.uk, none known for Miller's) and contact them by e-mail.

Unfortunately I don't have last week's Groat so can't hazard a guess which are which, however I would bet that you'd get better results and feedback from a well designed advert than a basic in-house one.

For example how many home-made leaflets (photocopies, inkjet prints, etc.) have you had through your door? Off the top of my head I'm pretty sure I remember ones for Vipers and, a short while ago, for the new local ironing service and I'm sorry but they were quite pathetic and only remain in my memory for that reason. Yes I know they probably haven't got a substantial budgets for advertising, but ours went straight in the bin making the message/content irrelevant.

Having been self-employed for quite a few years I know that, in business, you have to project a suitable image - even my wife's very part-time business has a website, professional business cards, letterheads, etc. all using a uniform 'corporate' style.