PDA

View Full Version : Getting a dog



munron
29-May-07, 12:20
Before I start this post is not aimed at anyone in particular it is just something that has been on my mind for a little while.

Firstly as the owner of two dogs I cannot think of anything better for a family than to extend it with one or more of the furry kind, no matter what pet, as long as it suits you and your circumstances.

I just want people to be aware that there is a LOT of people out there purely breeding their dogs for money. It is a hard cold fact that these people do not care about the welfare of their dogs or their offspring, they are concerned about getting in the money. Puppies are always gorgeous to look at but the money you pay for these puppies also ensures that the unfortunate bitch will be bred from again and again. It is called supply and demand.

I realise that people sometimes view puppies in less than adequate surroundings and think they are saving the puppy from the situation. This they are doing and giving the owner money to continue plying their trade, supply and demand!!

The puppy may look healthy but there are so many dreadful diseases and issues that may be lurking beneath - are you prepared for the heartache of introducing a new puppy to your family only to realise that it has parvo, hip dysplasia, deafness, cancer etc? That is just a few examples but there are inherited problems with all breeds and a good breeder should be able to give you your puppy’s lineage and show that it is free from any breed specific problems, as well as actual written evidence to prove this.

If you are planning buying a puppy would you choose a breed first or a ready supply first? Would you be willing to wait for a puppy that was right? Would you contact the breed club direct for advice on your situation and recommended breeders before purchasing? These are just some of the questions that I would ask anyone thinking of buying a puppy and I am no expert.

I have two pure breed dogs and one of the first questions I am asked is if I plan to breed them. They are desirable dogs and people would buy the puppies but WHY would I want to breed members of my family and run the risk of their offspring going into the wrong hands and being consigned to a life of misery? I am an experienced dog owner but I have no experience of breeding and have no intentions of starting. The only reasons that people should breed is firstly and fore mostly for the good of the breed itself, to breed in the good qualities and eradicate the bad, to breed in good health and not inherited problems. A good breeder will know what dogs should and should not be bred with. A good breeder will only take one or possibly two litters of a bitch and a good breeder will do everything in their power to ensure that their puppies have a future that EVERY dog deserves.

If you have decided on a breed then possibly do a search on the rescue side of things, you may decide that you want a bought puppy but it will do you no harm at all the learn the harsh facts behind a breed. Thousands are given up, put to sleep or ill treated - there are many reasons behind it all, some are genuine and others are in kennels due to the ignorance of the people who bought them. Every single rescue dog was a puppy once.

There are many things that you should consider before getting a dog and I hope that if nothing else I have maybe made one person think. I take my hat of to the people who rescue unwanted dogs, but I cannot begin to describe my admiration for the people who pick up the pieces when it all goes wrong. This is not just dog rescue but all animal rescue; these people give their time usually for nothing and be assured that the heart ache they feel can sometimes be on a daily basis.

I hope everyone who buys a pet has many many years of happiness with their new family member. If a rescue is not for you then possibly you could consider a small donation to their cause? I have one breed of dog but I donate to rescue of a breed I would like to have but cant. I don’t know of any rescue that wouldn’t be grateful of even a fiver and that can go a long way.

I usually feel it is better to say nothing, but today I just couldn’t.

Ash
29-May-07, 13:23
hiya..... i agree with everything you have written, we just got our puppy, we had spoken to many breeders before we picked which one to buy our cocker spaniel from, the first one said he would meet us halfway from where he lived, which at first i thought was nice but then we decided against it, the woman who we received our puppy from is someone who was amazing, we travelled to her house which was some drive, we met the parents of the animals, all the other puppies and viewed how they were living, it was fantastic, anyone buying a dog make sure your able to view all these things.

Liz
29-May-07, 14:01
Munron what an excellent post!!!

It breaks my heart to know that there are unscrupulous people who are breeding puppies just to make money and don't really care about the breed
causing heartache to potential owners and suffering for the poor dogs.:(

stewart4364
29-May-07, 14:36
You have hit the nail on the head as regards some breeders -- All they see pound signs flashing in front of their eyes and think of all that money rolling in -- no thought about the welfare of the dogs and the same goes with some bird breeders -- the birds quite often have to breed continually whereas they should be allowed to rest and recuperate after a somewhat stressful time. Two clutches a year is plenty for any bird.

More thought and consideration should be given to the welfare of the animal or bird than just the amount of money it is possible to make (possibly all tax free)

corgiman
29-May-07, 14:40
I absolutely agree with this post and I think anyone making money from breeding any animal is doing something wrong in the welfare if they are managing to make any money out of it. I have no problem with breeding to better a breed and showing,and doing it responsibly but I can assure you that if you are doing it for that reason there is no way you can make a profit.

porshiepoo
29-May-07, 14:44
Before I start this post is not aimed at anyone in particular it is just something that has been on my mind for a little while.

Firstly as the owner of two dogs I cannot think of anything better for a family than to extend it with one or more of the furry kind, no matter what pet, as long as it suits you and your circumstances.

I just want people to be aware that there is a LOT of people out there purely breeding their dogs for money. It is a hard cold fact that these people do not care about the welfare of their dogs or their offspring, they are concerned about getting in the money. Puppies are always gorgeous to look at but the money you pay for these puppies also ensures that the unfortunate bitch will be bred from again and again. It is called supply and demand.

I realise that people sometimes view puppies in less than adequate surroundings and think they are saving the puppy from the situation. This they are doing and giving the owner money to continue plying their trade, supply and demand!!

The puppy may look healthy but there are so many dreadful diseases and issues that may be lurking beneath - are you prepared for the heartache of introducing a new puppy to your family only to realise that it has parvo, hip dysplasia, deafness, cancer etc? That is just a few examples but there are inherited problems with all breeds and a good breeder should be able to give you your puppy’s lineage and show that it is free from any breed specific problems, as well as actual written evidence to prove this.

If you are planning buying a puppy would you choose a breed first or a ready supply first? Would you be willing to wait for a puppy that was right? Would you contact the breed club direct for advice on your situation and recommended breeders before purchasing? These are just some of the questions that I would ask anyone thinking of buying a puppy and I am no expert.

I have two pure breed dogs and one of the first questions I am asked is if I plan to breed them. They are desirable dogs and people would buy the puppies but WHY would I want to breed members of my family and run the risk of their offspring going into the wrong hands and being consigned to a life of misery? I am an experienced dog owner but I have no experience of breeding and have no intentions of starting. The only reasons that people should breed is firstly and fore mostly for the good of the breed itself, to breed in the good qualities and eradicate the bad, to breed in good health and not inherited problems. A good breeder will know what dogs should and should not be bred with. A good breeder will only take one or possibly two litters of a bitch and a good breeder will do everything in their power to ensure that their puppies have a future that EVERY dog deserves.

If you have decided on a breed then possibly do a search on the rescue side of things, you may decide that you want a bought puppy but it will do you no harm at all the learn the harsh facts behind a breed. Thousands are given up, put to sleep or ill treated - there are many reasons behind it all, some are genuine and others are in kennels due to the ignorance of the people who bought them. Every single rescue dog was a puppy once.

There are many things that you should consider before getting a dog and I hope that if nothing else I have maybe made one person think. I take my hat of to the people who rescue unwanted dogs, but I cannot begin to describe my admiration for the people who pick up the pieces when it all goes wrong. This is not just dog rescue but all animal rescue; these people give their time usually for nothing and be assured that the heart ache they feel can sometimes be on a daily basis.

I hope everyone who buys a pet has many many years of happiness with their new family member. If a rescue is not for you then possibly you could consider a small donation to their cause? I have one breed of dog but I donate to rescue of a breed I would like to have but cant. I don’t know of any rescue that wouldn’t be grateful of even a fiver and that can go a long way.

I usually feel it is better to say nothing, but today I just couldn’t.


Great post.
I had one litter of great dane pups about 5 years ago and have to say I'd never do it again.
The reason I bred from my bitch was because I wanted a pup to show but didn't like what was being bred at that time. My bitch wasn't perfect confirmation wise but I put her to a dog that suited her. I felt that this was one of the ways of 'knowing' what I was getting and I could also ensure pick of the litter for both a dog and a bitch.
The cost in both time and money of a healthy litter and mum is what alot of people don't account for when thinking of breeding. My dogs at that time were fed Royal Canin (not much change from forty quid a bag), the cost of dew claw removal, vet visits for check ups, any illnesses etc soon adds up.
These large breed dogs also need a minimum of 2 weeks 24 hour supervision :eek: as they so easily lay on and kill a pup.
Out of a litter of 10 we had 1 still born, 1 had to be put to sleep at 8 weeks after lots of expensive treatment, 1 was given to stud dog owner (I was to have one of hers in the future), 1 basically covered the cost of the stud dog and 2 were being kept by me, that left 4 to sell. The selling of those 4 didn't even cover the costs of the litter.
The boy I kept for showing also had to be rehomed (free, as home was more important than price and he was a pet by this time) because only 1 testicle descended so I couldn't show him, that left me 1 bitch who turned out to be very small - albeit fantastic confirmation.

Even once you've sold the litter it doesn't stop there, you have a responsibility to the pups for the rest of their lives. I've had one returned cos the owners couldn't cope with him, which meant me collecting him from Devon way, castrating him, rehoming him and all the cost and time that involved. One lady had trouble controlling her dane and I had to make several visits to help her sort the situation out, all at my expense.
This is just part and parcel of breeding though. It's simply not a case of breed em, flog em and start again.
It's hard work before, during and after breeding and my advice to the average Joe Bloggs would be to leave it the experts.

labsrus
29-May-07, 17:57
Here here Munron I couldnt agree more with you comments and I am a dog breeder of several years. I go to a lot of trouble to make sure I only breed from health tested parents and wouldnt breed from any dogs whose results were not acceptable.

My latest pup is now 1 year old and will shortly be going to Manchester for hip scoring and elbow scoring as that is where the best man for the job is in my opinion. It will involve 2 days travelling and expenses with the actual cost of the tests being around £250.00. then I will have to get a yearly eye test -£40 (which should be current when puppies are bred as problems can arise later in life in my breed) and am also considering a new DNA test in the US - £75 - 100, which can test for one of the eye diseases so testing is not cheap!

I spend a long time finding out if new puppy people would make suitable owners for one of my pups and my contract states that any dogs may not be sold on, given to Rescues if the owner cannot keep them but they will come back to me. Do any of the backyard breeders / puppy farmers offer that kind of lifetime commitment? I very much doubt it!

That is why it makes me really mad when I hear about people going to the sort of person who has a bitch and a dog so just thought they would have a litter, or knows of someone with a "nice" dog they can use at stud, usually just around the corner for handiness. These folk think they can make a quick buck by breeding but I am afraid if it is done right it is more likely to COST YOU money! I have added up my expenses for the past 8 years as a breeder and am several THOUSAND pounds out of pocket!!

Dont do any health tests, dont worry about expensive equipment needed should anything go wrong and if you are prepared to let just anyone who has the cash have one of your pups then yes it may be possible to make money but sooner or later something will go wrong.

Have these people given any thought to whelping problems which could mean a C- section, losing your bitch and or the puppies? Especially if you are not experienced how can you know how to give the best care to your bitch?
Have they ever shown / worked their dogs, do they even know the breed standard and what is a good enough specimen for breeding?

Also in this day and age of litigation then breeders should be aware that people are now more & more likely to sue if their puppy developes health problems which could possibly have been prevented by testing. If that happens any quick cash they made at the time of selling the pups will seem pretty irrelevant!

So come on prospective puppy buyers, PLEASE do your homework, only buy from breeders who have the right attitude to breeding and who breed occasionally to improve the breed not just to make a quick buck. Not someone who breeds litter after litter or several different breeds. If buyers were more fussy about what they were getting for their well earned cash then the unreputable breeders would go out of business.

Research what health tests should be done on your chosen breed and ask to see written proof that the tests have been done, ask about past generations, have their been any problems, if a breeder is not prepared to show proof of testing or discuss any questions you have RUN dont walk away. After all this little bundle of joy will be with you for 10 -15 years if you chose wisely, why pay the same money for an inferior specimen who may develope serious health / behavioural problems and live a shortened lifespan. If these pups are a bargain because they are so cheap then warning bells should definitely be ringing. In dog breeding you definitely get what you pay for in the end.

Lolabelle
30-May-07, 06:16
I agree with all said above. As I have commented in previous posts, I had my girl desexed because she has conformation problems and knowing her father, he should never have been bred. But he was, on the advice of a shonky breeder. Sometimes the longterm, well known breeders are as greedy and problematic as the backyard puppy production lines. My brother in law did everything right. Got in with well known breeders, learnt from them and did what they recommended. And they ripped him off. Sold him their bad dogs and acted like they were doing him a favour. There are shonky outfits in animal breeding everywhere.