View Full Version : dope peddlers
Anyone see in today,s Record the Wick drug dealer who, on arrival back in town after serving his jail sentence found out that he was evicted from his corporation house and is now living in a clapped out old car,
Well sorry buddy your not getting my sympathy vote, you knew what you were doing and must have lived high on the proceeds so ,As far as im concerned take it. He must have known the consequences when he committed those crimes so why is he whinging now.
And now that he,s got no cooking facility,s what better time for him to lose some weight. [disgust] . No doubt the council will be forced to rehouse him so he can maybe start up business again.
the nomad
29-May-07, 10:08
Anyone see in today,s Record the Wick drug dealer who, on arrival back in town after serving his jail sentence found out that he was evicted from his corporation house and is now living in a clapped out old car,
Well sorry buddy your not getting my sympathy vote, you knew what you were doing and must have lived high on the proceeds so ,As far as im concerned take it. He must have known the consequences when he committed those crimes so why is he whinging now.
And now that he,s got no cooking facility,s what better time for him to lose some weight. [disgust] . No doubt the council will be forced to rehouse him so he can maybe start up business again.
A good candidate for the car crusher driver and all.[evil]
A good candidate for the car crusher driver and all.[evil]
So tell me nomad, would you feel the same way about the landlord of a pub or a tobacconist?
So tell me nomad, would you feel the same way about the landlord of a pub or a tobacconist?
i see where your coming from fred but the difference between a pub & a tobacconist is that they are legal and that they work hard to build up their businesses, pay income tax, rates etc into the system where most drug dealers take, take. take . out of the system. i/e most are on benefits while dealing.
The link to this is at:
http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/news/tm_headline=wheeler-dealer%26method=full%26objectid=19212698%26siteid= 66633-name_page.html
Presumably he could use the approach the Council for help.
http://www.highland.gov.uk/livinghere/housing/homelessness/
As he is homeless he would probably be a priority.
The link to this is at:
http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/news/tm_headline=wheeler-dealer%26method=full%26objectid=19212698%26siteid= 66633-name_page.html
Presumably he could use the approach the Council for help.
http://www.highland.gov.uk/livinghere/housing/homelessness/
As he is homeless he would probably be a priority.
If we think that you have made yourself homeless because of something you have or have not done, we may say that you have made yourself homeless "intentionally". This means that even if you are homeless and in priority need, we do not have a legal duty to find you another home. However, we will give you advice, information and assistance to help you find housing. We will also normally give you temporary housing for a limited period of time. This is to give you time to find alternative housing yourself. this was the third or fourth para in the leaflet that you pointed out.
Penelope Pitstop
29-May-07, 12:57
If I was living in the same block of flats as him with my children, I'd be delighted that he had been evicted.:Razz
He will get housed no bother, straight away. Different if like me you have never signed on and are able to pay full rent and council tax. Have to wait ages. :(
This man you are all speaking about is my cousin. I don't agree with his drug dealing and I hope he's no longer doing it. Unfortunately most of that side of my family have dabbled in it over the years.
Have any of you ever spoken to him? I'm maybe biased as I'm family but he's a really nice bloke who has never said a wrong word to me. He's recently had a family bereavement and I feel sorry for him having to go through that and having to live in a car.
Don't get me wrong I wouldn't like drug dealers living near me but surely if he's changed his ways he deserves another chance. I don't like the thought of anyone being homeless and not even having the basics like washing/cooking facilities. Even if I wasn't related to him that would upset me.
Jeemag_USA
29-May-07, 14:06
What exactly do you mean by dope? What was he convicted for, Cannabis or something more illegal than this almost decriminalised drug?
This thread reminds me of the good old days in the dark ages when people turned up to watch a hanging or a beheading cause they had nothing better to do. I guess nobody is allowed a second chance in life, ok so maybe its his own fault he lost his house but don't think he needs to be damned to hell. I'd be ashamed of myself if I talked about people like that and couldn't bring myself to forgive them.
webmannie
29-May-07, 14:13
I don't like the thought of anyone being homeless and not even having the basics like washing/cooking facilities. Even if I wasn't related to him that would upset me.
Your family will be taking him in until he gets himself sorted out then?
From what I understand from other members of my family is that he is getting help from his brother. I haven't seen him myself in a couple of weeks. I only heard he's been living in a car, a few days ago. The family grapevine can be slow at times even though there's lots of us. And yes if he did ask me for help I would give it, in any way I can. I have some compassion.
changilass
29-May-07, 14:26
He has served his time, ok he may go back to his old ways, but he is more likely to do it due to the necessity of a roof over his head. I quite like the American idea of 3 strikes and your out, it gives folks a chance to change whilst still giving the option to lock them up for a very long time.
im sorry but im soo against drug taking! this man decided to deal drugs, its his own fault, i have seen so many people ruined by cannabis, everyone says its not a harmful drug, well believe me it is, i have two family members who take it, ones very paranoid, gurny ect and the other was beaten up by her boyfriend as he was out his face on drugs, regardless on what time of drug it is, everyone should be punished who takes it (illegal ones) i hate drugs. im not gonna feel sorry for someone who messed up there own life![evil]
porshiepoo
29-May-07, 14:53
I cannot stand drug dealers BUT I do wonder how we expect to rid ourselves of them if we are not prepared to give them a second chance when they're trying to be on the straight and narrow?
Now I don't know whether this guy is trying to mend his ways or not but I have to say that the odds are stacked against him if he's not given the help he needs.
I don't like the thought of my taxes being used to help drug dealers any more than the rest of you but I'd much rather know they're being used on someone attempting to go straight than them many people who sign on because they can't be bothered to work.
But then again I don't have to live near the man!
[evil] it scares me how many drug dealers there are in caithness, u cant go out for people offering it to u like its no big deal, drugs are dangerous and they ruin peoples lives, im not with my wee girls biological father for that very fact, there is no way i would let anyone watch my child under the influence of drugs, infact even i knew they dabbled in drugs they wouldnt be around my wee one.
i see where your coming from fred but the difference between a pub & a tobacconist is that they are legal and that they work hard to build up their businesses, pay income tax, rates etc into the system where most drug dealers take, take. take . out of the system. i/e most are on benefits while dealing.
Ah, so what about the landlord who is serving after hours or the tobacconist who sells cigarettes to someone under age? They are breaking the law, do you see them in the same light as a drug dealer?
Ah, so what about the landlord who is serving after hours or the tobacconist who sells cigarettes to someone under age? They are breaking the law, do you see them in the same light as a drug dealer?
what they are all doing is illegal, but dealing drugs is just slighlty worse dont u think! you cant honestly think its ok! :roll:
Tubthumper
29-May-07, 15:25
[evil] it scares me how many drug dealers there are in caithness, u cant go out for people offering it to u like its no big deal, drugs are dangerous and they ruin peoples lives, im not with my wee girls biological father for that very fact, there is no way i would let anyone watch my child under the influence of drugs, infact even i knew they dabbled in drugs they wouldnt be around my wee one.
How about reporting the dealers to the polis?
its been done, and nothing happens, police judt say the didnt have enough to charge them!! belive me ive tried
what they are all doing is illegal, but dealing drugs is just slighlty worse dont u think! you cant honestly think its ok! :roll:
The pub landlord, the tobacconist, the drug dealer, they are all dealing drugs.
How do you work out that one if worse than the other? If the drug dealer was selling cannabis he was selling the safest least addictive drug of the three.
now do u know from experience that its less addictive?
because i know alot of people who are addicted to it, they are paranoid and nasty when they are taking it
NickInTheNorth
29-May-07, 15:55
I have no time at all for drug dealers. Amongst the lowest life forms our sick society has to offer.
However we have in place laws which in this case said the man should be locked up in prison for a period of time. That is his punishment. It also sets out to be a time of rehabilitation - but it does not seemt o be very good at that.
However I cannot see why this man should then be punished again by society by having his home taken away. We all make mistakes. I hope he is re-housed. I believe that he may well be unintentionally homeless, and that the council may well have to house him.
I am inclined to think he has made himself homeless, anyone leaving prison without an address will get assistance. It may only be a hostel, b & b or the likes until suitable housing is available.
As for some one taking cannibis nasty ? i doubt that, they could hardly fight their way out of a damp paper bag.
Ah, so what about the landlord who is serving after hours or the tobacconist who sells cigarettes to someone under age? They are breaking the law, do you see them in the same light as a drug dealer?
ash has answered for me, [thanks ash]. fred you really cannot put the odd landlord into the same category as these slugs that sell dope to children and the teenager,s
I have no time at all for drug dealers. Amongst the lowest life forms our sick society has to offer.
However we have in place laws which in this case said the man should be locked up in prison for a period of time. That is his punishment. It also sets out to be a time of rehabilitation - but it does not seemt o be very good at that.
However I cannot see why this man should then be punished again by society by having his home taken away. We all make mistakes. I hope he is re-housed. I believe that he may well be unintentionally homeless, and that the council may well have to house him.
one community gets rid of rubbish another inherits it
Billy Boy
29-May-07, 16:42
Anyone see in today,s Record the Wick drug dealer who, on arrival back in town after serving his jail sentence found out that he was evicted from his corporation house and is now living in a clapped out old car,
Well sorry buddy your not getting my sympathy vote, you knew what you were doing and must have lived high on the proceeds so ,As far as im concerned take it. He must have known the consequences when he committed those crimes so why is he whinging now.
And now that he,s got no cooking facility,s what better time for him to lose some weight. [disgust] . No doubt the council will be forced to rehouse him so he can maybe start up business again.
just out of curiosity johno, if this person was one of your relative's would you be so quick to start a thread on their exploit's on a community forum?
Looking at the story on the Internet at:
http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/news/tm_headline=wheeler-dealer%26method=full%26objectid=19212698%26siteid= 66633-name_page.html
Quote:
"He was freed from jail late last year after serving a third of an 18-month sentence for selling ecstasy from a housing association flat in Wick, Caithness."
I was surprised that he only had to serve a third of his sentence.
Quote:
"He was jailed despite doctors' fears that imprisonment could kill him because of his bulk.
He could barely squeeze into the dock to admit his crime. ...
... He was sent to hospital to slim down before being sentenced last May."
Sounds like an interesting candidate for one of those reality television programmes, that are so popular these days.
one community gets rid of rubbish another inherits it
This bloke is from Wick!
Its not like some of the perverts their sticking up here because they don't want them near their children or in their community. Maybe he falls into the same catagory in your eyes? I would rather have someone that you can turn and say "No I don't want drugs" too than someone who harms children and takes away their childhood. At the end of the day its personal choice whether you say yes or no to a drug dealer.
just out of curiosity johno, if this person was one of your relative's would you be so quick to start a thread on their exploit's on a community forum?
im not getting at the man personally im getting at dealers in general and yes if it was one of my relatives i would still feel the same. curiosty satisfied?
Penelope Pitstop
29-May-07, 17:01
This bloke is from Wick!
Its not like some of the perverts their sticking up here because they don't want them near their children or in their community. Maybe he falls into the same catagory in your eyes? I would rather have someone that you can turn and say "No I don't want drugs" too than someone who harms children and takes away their childhood. At the end of the day its personal choice whether you say yes or no to a drug dealer.
I'm not saying this guy is like this but would just like to make the point that children can have their childhood taken away by drugs............not all children know or can say NO when offered drugs.......therefore, they also get their childhood/life taken away.
Some children have been known not to know they have been given drugs until after they have taken them....anyone remember the cartoon/funny tattoos that were on the go a few years back. Druggies were handing them out at school gates.
orkneylass
29-May-07, 17:09
I don't condone drug dealing but the term "drug pusher" does annoy me since most people that take drugs choose to do so and actively seek out dealers. The idea that someone dealing in cannabis will turn your child into an addict is overly simplistic. parents have a role to play in bringing up happy, confident kids that make positive choices because they believe in a future they can influence.
As for this chap - presumably the prejudice and disapproval of others is the last thing he needs if he is trying to make a new start?
Billy Boy
29-May-07, 17:19
im not getting at the man personally im getting at dealers in general and yes if it was one of my relatives i would still feel the same. curiosty satisfied?
your opening post just came across to me as a bit of axe grinding, but i do apologize for takeing hold of the wrong end of the stick:D
"curiosty satisfied" not really;)
appleskin
29-May-07, 17:45
its homelessness and poverty that helps to increase the use of drugs in our soicity people trying to escape for a while and then get hooked but alcohol is a legal drug but it works the same way you end up with addicts
As for some one taking cannibis nasty ? i doubt that, they could hardly fight their way out of a damp paper bag.
mmmm.... maybe not when they are under the influence but cannabis can cause psychosis which could have a lot of implications!
He has done his time, so why does everyone feel the need to stick the boot in are you all so bloody perfect that you can stand on judgement of him.
It just so typical to slag off someone who isnt here to speak for themselves i doubt if most of you would actually say the things to his face that you say on here[disgust]
now do u know from experience that its less addictive?
because i know alot of people who are addicted to it, they are paranoid and nasty when they are taking it
I know from scientific research that it is a lot less addictive, I've known plenty of alcoholics and plenty of people addicted to nicotine but never anyone addicted to cannabis.
No drug is completely harmless but of the three cannabis is the least harmful and least addictive.
We all know the misery alcohol addiction can cause, homes broken, spouses and children abused. We know the medical conditions associated with chronic alcohol abuse, people die in their prime because of it.
How come someone who sells cannabis is seen as a demon and the pub landlord as a fine upstanding pillar of the community?
Jeemag_USA
29-May-07, 18:27
mmmm.... maybe not when they are under the influence but cannabis can cause psychosis which could have a lot of implications!
I don't believe its Cannabis that causes psychosis, if people taking cannabis are already mentally unstable then it will not help. I know of people who have had problems with cannabis, but they also had been treated for psychological problems before they started with cannabis.
Cannabis is almost legal in the UK, not far off it anyway, uninformed people will try to make it sound evil for ever and a day but they will always be wrong. people selling you cigarettes and alcohol are pushing drugs to you, more harmful drugs, but the government allows it because they make a ton of money off of it, so in effect the government are pushers themselves.
anyway the drug in question is Ecstacy, not to get off subject.
According to the article............Pentland Housing said
We'll always take action when it comes to our attention that a tenant is involved in drug-dealing.
It's the ultimate anti-social behaviour and not something we want our law-abiding tenants to have to put up with.
Seems a better reason for evicting someone than because they can't control their kids. :confused
cannabis is addictive i have 2family members addicted to it, one since a very young age, they can turn nasty ive seen it first hand!
cannabis is addictive i have 2family members addicted to it, one since a very young age, they can turn nasty ive seen it first hand!
cannabis affects different people in different ways, i have known people who take in now and again and i know others who have taken it long term, so it really depends on the person whether it is addictive or not and their frame of mind as to whether it leads to mental health problems as with all drug legal and illegal they all affect people differently
connieb19
29-May-07, 18:54
I thought it was ecstasy he was done for dealing in?
[QUOTE=Jeemag_USA;228001]I don't believe its Cannabis that causes psychosis, if people taking cannabis are already mentally unstable then it will not help. I know of people who have had problems with cannabis, but they also had been treated for psychological problems before they started with cannabis.
I have to disagree with you I firmly believe cannabis causes psychosis, however I do also believe it has a lot to do with the individual, therefore many many people can take cannabis with no adverse effects. Just my humble opinion!
I think that the people who are denouncing this poor guy should be ashamed of themselves. His plight is entirely the fault of the government. The government makes certain substances illegal - for no good scientific reason - and then professes to be baffled by the innate criminality of people who provide the banned substances.
Smugglers and dealers are simply filling a market niche.
Fellow orgers, you know as well as I do that you have smoked cannabis - is it addictive? Of course not! While I have often thought that many orgers seem to be on some sort of hallucinatory substance - and I know some of you think I might be on something myself - the reality is that you and I are not dope fiends as defined by the legislators ;despite our drug experience
SO let us turn to heroin and cocaine. The medical evidence shows that patients in pain can take vast amounts of heroin/morphine without becoming addicted. As for cocaine, Freud seems to have managed pretty well on it. Crack cocaine may or may not be lethaly addicitive but forcing addicts - if addicts they be - to purchase from a dealer means they enter a world of criminality. Because under current legislation one is forced to purchase from a Hell's Angel or a street gang member
Now I am not disinterested in this topic.
Some time I will have to retire. How then to keep myself afloat? The answer is obvious. I shall become a drug dealer. As a silvery haired old gent with a plummy Edinburgh accent and a Watsonian tie, nobody would suspect me. And doing business with me would be good for you all. A bit of decent chat, no nose-rigs and tatoos, home delivery - what could be better.
So I will be seeing you all. Quite soon. I'll be sitting with my fellow pensioners on the bench in Sir John's Square. I'll be the guy with the big hemp bag....
Jeemag_USA
29-May-07, 19:45
[quote=Jeemag_USA;228001]I don't believe its Cannabis that causes psychosis, if people taking cannabis are already mentally unstable then it will not help. I know of people who have had problems with cannabis, but they also had been treated for psychological problems before they started with cannabis.
I have to disagree with you I firmly believe cannabis causes psychosis, however I do also believe it has a lot to do with the individual, therefore many many people can take cannabis with no adverse effects. Just my humble opinion!
So you agree its the person not the drug, same reason some people can hold their drink and others can't and some don't drink because they don't like the way they are when they are drinking. Easier to blame a drug less harmful than alcohol though.
danc1ngwitch
29-May-07, 19:55
Has anyone used that programme M.Y.O.B?
*
Never down a man for defending his blood.
I have never ever tryed drugs and Trust me nearly everyone but a handful is on different stuffs.
Let me see who gets stuff for depression?
Not the same u all say? Why not?
Whats good for me might put u mentol?
I think that one should b responsible for ones actions and bear the consequences.
Drug dealers are businessmen. Plenty of other Businessmen sell things that are known to cause damage and problems. If there were not a queue of young people wanting to buy Ecstacy etc, then there would not be Dealers waiting to sell it to them.
All too often the blame is put on dealers getting kids hooked on the drug, when the focus should be on why kids see the need to resort to drugs in order to make life "sexy", "exciting", "cool" etc
It is akin to blaming an alcoholic's downfall on the bartender who pulled his first pint. Responsibility must start with the consumer. Drinking is merely sanitised drug abuse. Like "drugs", alcohol has casual users, heavier users and addicts. Many of today's users of drugs are very well to do professionals, Doctor's, Dentists etc. They have their cocaine delivered by "Taxi" and their dealers are often amongst the most important people in their lives.
To me, it is a little two-faced to be battering out the morality of drugs with your kids whilst being three parts piddled on the old "Electric Soup" yourself.
There is a bigger social problem that needs addressing but too many people love the "Falling Down Water" for that to ever be properly tackled.
Tubthumper
29-May-07, 20:06
There is a bigger social problem that needs addressing but too many people love the "Falling Down Water" for that to ever be properly tackled.
The taxman in particular likes us to partake of the old 'Wreck The Hoose Juice' on a regular basis.
[quote=Max;228023]
So you agree its the person not the drug, same reason some people can hold their drink and others can't and some don't drink because they don't like the way they are when they are drinking. Easier to blame a drug less harmful than alcohol though.
well I do agree the person's make up has a lot to do with it although someone who wouldn't necessarily have a phsychotic problem, even a chemical imbalance may have it brought on by cannabis or indeed alcohol as you stated. I know people who have died of alocoholism but none that I know of have died of taking cannabis. I wasn't at any time blaming one thing more than the other just staing my opinion.
marylund2323
29-May-07, 23:53
ok basically the person who wants to buy the drugs goes to the dealer, the dealer generally wont go and pressure someone into buying it. also as far as cannabis goes in any of its forms it is by far the safest stuff you can buy for your money. i for one am a smoker(of cigarettes) and also like a good drink and i know perfectly well that these two things are worse for me. but yes you can get addicted to cannabis, and you can also get addicted to chocolate or ibuprofen, i have a friend who is addicted to cannabis - he smokes it like i would do a cig and he is one of the friendliest people i know. does it make him a bad person?? no. does it make the dealer that sells him it a bad person?? no - why? cos he personally goes round and asks for it.
Jeemag_USA
30-May-07, 00:39
ok basically the person who wants to buy the drugs goes to the dealer, the dealer generally wont go and pressure someone into buying it. also as far as cannabis goes in any of its forms it is by far the safest stuff you can buy for your money. i for one am a smoker(of cigarettes) and also like a good drink and i know perfectly well that these two things are worse for me. but yes you can get addicted to cannabis, and you can also get addicted to chocolate or ibuprofen, i have a friend who is addicted to cannabis - he smokes it like i would do a cig and he is one of the friendliest people i know. does it make him a bad person?? no. does it make the dealer that sells him it a bad person?? no - why? cos he personally goes round and asks for it.
Cannabis is not addictive, if your not doing much then its no different from eating or watching telly, you just do it cause its there. I smoked cannabis for about 14 year and had plenty of spells among that where I never bothered, haven't really smoked for the last 10 year, only from time to time at parties, feel no real need to do it. I am struggling very hard though to get off of 25 years of smoking cigarettes though which definately is addictive.
Well thats hardly surprising, I am pretty sure I am going to lose sleep over that, who the hell cares what you think about me, let alone me :roll:
You'd have to be a pretty foolish and narrow minded person to judge a person when you don't even know them, very foolish, and actually that explains a lot about you :cool:
So smoking cannabis makes you a junkie now does it, shows how much you know about drugs, could probably write it all on the outside of a cigartette.
No point arguing with him James, his ignorance and prejudice is very well recognised by most of us who know what we are talking about. Anyone who says that alcohol is OK because it is legal in spite of the fact that it kills more than 20,000 people per year has a reality problem.
The Pepsi Challenge
30-May-07, 06:03
This old chestnut again.
Drugs (and that's ecstasy, heroin and cocaine), in my opinion, should be made legal and then taxed. That way it would be more easily monitored, controlled and regulated. Nuff said.
Anyway.
I've said this a zillion times, and I'll say it again: Alcohol is THE drug we should be more worried about. Day in, day out, I venture round the clubs, pubs, venues and streets of our cities, and if there's one thing so clear (so clearly evident that people can't seem to see the woods for the trees), it's that Drink - in all it forms and guises - is the drug that causes the majority of deaths, illness, violence, disturbance and disruption within this nation of ours. Anyone who disagrees obviously doesn't get out much.
the nomad
30-May-07, 09:32
So tell me nomad, would you feel the same way about the landlord of a pub or a tobacconist?
I agree that alcohol and cigarettes are a form of drug, however I known first hand the misery taking illegal drugs can cause, it starts with off the shelf medicines then dope or cannabis, then its the street pills and finally ends with Heroine or Cocaine. The person I saw ruin his life with drugs eventually had a moment of sanity and realised what a mess their life was, however they couldn't live without drugs or with them, that's what he put on his suicide note.[evil]
The Gentleman in question will receive no sympathy from me as he will undoubtedly offend again.
Would you feel the same about hime if a child took one of his tablets??:mad:
no one should be proud of the fact they have taken drugs, i have distanced myself from many friends due to them taking drugs, its something im so against!
I agree that alcohol and cigarettes are a form of drug, however I known first hand the misery taking illegal drugs can cause, it starts with off the shelf medicines then dope or cannabis, then its the street pills and finally ends with Heroine or Cocaine. The person I saw ruin his life with drugs eventually had a moment of sanity and realised what a mess their life was, however they couldn't live without drugs or with them, that's what he put on his suicide note.[evil]
The Gentleman in question will receive no sympathy from me as he will undoubtedly offend again.
Would you feel the same about hime if a child took one of his tablets??:mad:
I still haven't seen anything there which doesn't apply equally to alcohol.
I have known a few people died as a result of alcohol abuse, it has resulted in many suicides. A child taking a half bottle of vodka would be just as harmful as a child taking some tablets.
Why is one dealer subject to a witch hunt and not the other?
cannabis is addictive i have 2family members addicted to it, one since a very young age, they can turn nasty ive seen it first hand!
Anecdotal evidence.
Over a third of the adult population has been a cannabis smoker at some point in their life, you can't judge them all by the actions of two.
Does alcohol abuse cause the breakdown of a marriage or does someone in an unhappy relationship take to drink to make life more bearable, does someone who has had their spouse leave them then take to drink? Cause and effect can be very easily confused.
i have seen some very bad things with drugs........ its awful, drug use is disgusting my sister got beaten up by her partner cause he was soo paranoid about her cheating(which she wasnt) he broke her nose and her ribs whilst his other druggie friends watched this take place!!!
he has been smoking cannabis for the majority of his life, and taking god knows what else but cannabis does cause paranoia!
i have seen some very bad things with drugs........ its awful, drug use is disgusting my sister got beaten up by her partner cause he was soo paranoid about her cheating(which she wasnt) he broke her nose and her ribs whilst his other druggie friends watched this take place!!!
he has been smoking cannabis for the majority of his life, and taking god knows what else but cannabis does cause paranoia!
And I have seen plenty of women beaten up by partners who were drunk and paranoid about them cheating.
It still doesn't explain the difference.
buggyracer
30-May-07, 13:55
what fred doesnt know is not worth knowing, the sooner other posters realise this the better :(
appleskin
30-May-07, 14:31
I don't believe its Cannabis that causes psychosis, if people taking cannabis are already mentally unstable then it will not help. I know of people who have had problems with cannabis, but they also had been treated for psychological problems before they started with cannabis.
Cannabis is almost legal in the UK, not far off it anyway, uninformed people will try to make it sound evil for ever and a day but they will always be wrong. people selling you cigarettes and alcohol are pushing drugs to you, more harmful drugs, but the government allows it because they make a ton of money off of it, so in effect the government are pushers themselves.
anyway the drug in question is Ecstacy, not to get off subject.
the cemeterys are fill of people killed by alcohol one way or the other
appleskin
30-May-07, 14:35
And I have seen plenty of women beaten up by partners who were drunk and paranoid about them cheating.
It still doesn't explain the difference.
women get beat up by men who take niether
If Carlsberg did do Hospitals, they would probably be the biggest Hospitals in the World.
"Yellow Liver, Yellow Liver, is in my mind and in my eyes"
And I have seen plenty of women beaten up by partners who were drunk and paranoid about them cheating.
It still doesn't explain the difference.
i take u are a drug user....seeing as u are so for drugs!
Jeemag_USA
30-May-07, 15:39
Cannabis causing psychosis? Possibly may produce effects that may look like psychosis to the nonstoned individual![lol]
Do you know how many prescriptions are written in this country every year for Prozac?
31 million. That's right. Let's say that again. 31 million. What is the population of this country?
Did you know that one of the main side effects of Eli Lilly's drug Prozac is psychosis?
Prozac has gone off patent sometime ago but, do you know what Eli Lilly's best selling drug is now? Zyprexa.
Zyprexa is used to treat psychosis.
What is one of the main side effects of Zyprexa? Diabetes.
What are Eli Lilly's next best selling drugs? diabetes drugs.
Tell me, who are the real drug pushers and dope peddlers now?
Eli Lily is based here in Indianapolis, few of my inlaws work there, right now I am a stones throw from the factory. if you need cheering up they also make a packet out of erectile disfunction pills, can't remember what theres is called Cialis or something. :cool:
Jeemag_USA
30-May-07, 15:41
i take u are a drug user....seeing as u are so for drugs!
Don't be so ignorant, you don't have to promote drugs to talk about them, Fred is not promoting drug use, he is partaking in a debate about them, all you seem to be intertested in is outing people which makes no difference to this thread. Think of something nice to say.
Don't be so ignorant, you don't have to promote drugs to talk about them, Fred is not promoting drug use, he is partaking in a debate about them, all you seem to be intertested in is outing people which makes no difference to this thread. Think of something nice to say.
what like he is?! i mean all im saying ive seen first hand how cannabis affects peoples lives and the people around them so for others to say that its non effective doesnt cause paranoia, is pure bull!!!
Don't be so ignorant, you don't have to promote drugs to talk about them, Fred is not promoting drug use, he is partaking in a debate about them, all you seem to be intertested in is outing people which makes no difference to this thread. Think of something nice to say.
It has been obvious for a long time on this forum that, on this subject, there is no point confusing people with facts as their minds are already made up.
Blazing Sporrans
30-May-07, 17:23
And why, do these topics stray so far off subject? Here I find myself following a debate over the effects of cannabis when, as two or three correspondents have already pointed out, the drug concerned, being dealt by this individual, was ecstasy, which is a class A drug...
so does everyone else think its ok for this man to be dealing ecstasy then?
Blazing Sporrans
30-May-07, 17:31
Absolutely not and I find his previous actions utterly reprehensible. While I personally wish him no harm, I can't help but wonder if the universe is restoring balance.....
im so against drug taking....and as u can see im being slated for it ............
Tubthumper
30-May-07, 17:53
im so against drug taking....and as u can see im being slated for it ............
I don't think you should be slated for your beliefs.
I see that Indonesia has sentenced 9 men (including dutch & french citizens) to death for smuggling drugs.
well im being slated for my views.like i said above ive had my sister been beat up by her paranoid drug taking boyfriend
im hardly gonna think its somethin good am i
well im being slated for my views.like i said above ive had my sister been beat up by her paranoid drug taking boyfriend
im hardly gonna think its somethin good am i
can we all assume that you are also against drink as the effects of drink with some people lead to violence far more than you will ever see with someone who takes cannabis.
connieb19
30-May-07, 18:19
I wonder how the people who are so against drugs would feel if it was their own flesh and blood who became addicted, would they disown them or what? :confused
Thats a good point Connie, I have known plenty of folk who have said "it wouldnt happen in my family" sadly some were wrong, i had a mate whose dad became a heroin addict at the age for 50+ had never touched drugs in his life and said it would never happen in his family, so a guess no - one can say never because they just dont know what lies ahead
i take u are a drug user....seeing as u are so for drugs!
Where did I say I was for drugs?
I entered this thread when there was talk of putting a car into a crusher with a person in it. I just wondered why there is so much hatred for the drug dealer while the pub landlord and tobacconist are seen as upstanding pillars of the community.
It isn't that I'm for drugs it's just that I'm against hypocricy.
first of all Ash dont be put down over your beliefs ,
Thing is people will take drugs [why they need to in the first place is beyond me] but never mind so long as there are weak people to buy & try the stuff there will always be the opportunists to sell it and make a fast buck. reading your posts it would appear that you have witnessed first hand the aftermath that that those substances can impose on the people that take it.
Ok maybe whacky is the least dangerous of whats going around even less than alcohol maybe. But i guess that its just the first step up the ladder to harder & more dangerous stuff .On saying that if some one is stupid enough to use it ok go ahead ,it MAY be your problem big time, soon enough.
and Fred & Jeemac this is my opinion and im as entitled to form it as you both are to your,s. some one has the slogan after their posting
who need,s drugs im high on life. [ how very true].
danc1ngwitch
30-May-07, 18:35
Where did I say I was for drugs?
I entered this thread when there was talk of putting a car into a crusher with a person in it. I just wondered why there is so much hatred for the drug dealer while the pub landlord and tobacconist are seen as upstanding pillars of the community.
It isn't that I'm for drugs it's just that I'm against hypocricy.
so much hatred for the drug dealer. As a mum i would see the person go down for supplying my kids, and i hate not the drug dealers. Why put crap into your body when it ain't meant to be there? (stupid) but thats my opinion.
Pleasure? Ah for pleasure! well why not try loving and carressing for pleasure, good for you and harmless[lol]
someone mentioned them being bussiness men[disgust] <<<hmmmm
Yoda the flump
30-May-07, 18:56
Where did I say I was for drugs?
I entered this thread when there was talk of putting a car into a crusher with a person in it. I just wondered why there is so much hatred for the drug dealer while the pub landlord and tobacconist are seen as upstanding pillars of the community.
It isn't that I'm for drugs it's just that I'm against hypocricy.
Yes Fred, good point I quite agree - lets ban smoking and alcohol as well.
Why people want to smoke is beyond me, and why anybody needs to put alcohol into their body to enjoy a night out is a mystery.
so much hatred for the drug dealer. As a mum i would see the person go down for supplying my kids, and i hate not the drug dealers. Why put crap into your body when it ain't meant to be there? (stupid) but thats my opinion.
Pleasure? Ah for pleasure! well why not try loving and carressing for pleasure, good for you and harmless[lol]
someone mentioned them being bussiness men[disgust] <<<hmmmm
completely agree with you!!!
so much hatred for the drug dealer. As a mum i would see the person go down for supplying my kids, and i hate not the drug dealers. Why put crap into your body when it ain't meant to be there? (stupid) but thats my opinion.
Pleasure? Ah for pleasure! well why not try loving and carressing for pleasure, good for you and harmless[lol]
someone mentioned them being bussiness men[disgust] <<<hmmmm
Completely evading my question.
Tobacco causes lung disease, alcohol causes liver disease.
Why don't people want to put the people who sell those drugs into a car crusher but do those who sell other drugs, why hate one and not the other?
[QUOTE=gealbhan;228430]Cannabis causing psychosis? Possibly may produce effects that may look like psychosis to the nonstoned individual![lol]
Well there is scientific evidence to back it up!
Jeemag_USA
30-May-07, 19:31
Completely evading my question.
Tobacco causes lung disease, alcohol causes liver disease.
Why don't people want to put the people who sell those drugs into a car crusher but do those who sell other drugs, why hate one and not the other?
Because governments brainwash people to be that way Fred, that way they have no feelings of guilt when they take all their money for fags and booze and fill up the hospitals so they can give it all back to the NHS.
Unfortunately unless you have smoked cannabis or marijuana, you can't really know what it is like and can only rely on what others tell you or on what medical groups will drum up because governments have funded them to try and maintain the thought in peoples heads that some drugs are nasty and should be illegal. And as a result you get people writing like they do in here like they would also burn people at the stake for having warts on their back ;)
Just ill informed ramblings and I would hazzard a guess at some lies too.
According to statistics most people have taken illegal drugs at some time so maybe not everyone is rambling! :)
Yoda the flump
30-May-07, 19:58
Unfortunately unless you have smoked cannabis or marijuana, you can't really know what it is like and can only rely on what others tell you or on what medical groups will drum up because governments have funded them to try and maintain the thought in peoples heads that some drugs are nasty and should be illegal. And as a result you get people writing like they do in here like they would also burn people at the stake for having warts on their back ;)
Just ill informed ramblings and I would hazzard a guess at some lies too.
Why would you want to smoke cannabis or tobacco?
Is it not fairly obvious that it will cause you serious health problems?
Why would you want to smoke cannabis or tobacco?
Is it not fairly obvious that it will cause you serious health problems?
I have to agree with you - it really is black and white - and as an ex-smoker tobacco is so addictive it is a nightmare giving up - why just not bother doing it in the first place?
so much hatred for the drug dealer. As a mum i would see the person go down for supplying my kids, and i hate not the drug dealers. Why put crap into your body when it ain't meant to be there? (stupid) but thats my opinion.
Pleasure? Ah for pleasure! well why not try loving and carressing for pleasure, good for you and harmless[lol]
someone mentioned them being bussiness men[disgust] <<<hmmmm
"Someone said they were businessmen, disgust"
That was me I believe, why not just come out and say it?
Your post is contradictory. Let's see now, your kids choose to take illegal drugs and you would see the dealer go down for supplying said drugs.
Shouldn't your kids also do time for breaking the law?
"Why put crap into your body?"
Are your kids immune to taking responsibility for putting said crap into their body?
People want illegal substances. Where there is demand, there will always be supply. As long as we continue to point the finger of blame at the dealers, instead of addressing the true problem, which is why people see the need for drugs in the first place, then we will be no nearer to solving the drugs problem.
"Ooh, it can't be MY kids' fault, it's those evil dealers to blame"
We need to grow up and be able to see the truth about our children, instead of looking at them as Barbie and Action Man.
Action Man manufacturer's footnote:-
Eagle-eye Action Man out, Ecstacy-eye Action Man in!!
Why would you want to smoke cannabis or tobacco?
Is it not fairly obvious that it will cause you serious health problems?
I wouldn't either of them. But I do drink to excess and stuff my face so I am 18 stone at 5ft 8in. I know I shouldn't but.....
Scorrie you couldnt be more closer to the truth, there are so many who want to see this and that done to the dealers, but yet they cant seem to get it into their heads that if there wasnt folk wanting these drugs the dealers wouldnt exist.
The one thing that really confussed me about Caithness is most people's refusal to see what is on their doorsteps, the guy in question to which this thread was started is insignificant compaired to those who are dealing the hard drugs, the drugs that kill.
Jeemag_USA
30-May-07, 21:56
Why would you want to smoke cannabis or tobacco?
Is it not fairly obvious that it will cause you serious health problems?
I've given up tobacco and I don't smoke cannabis. No its not fairly obvious cannabis damages your health, obviously your quoting me but not reading me?
Jeemag_USA
30-May-07, 21:59
I have to agree with you - it really is black and white - and as an ex-smoker tobacco is so addictive it is a nightmare giving up - why just not bother doing it in the first place?
Its pretty obvious to everyone smokers and non smokers that tobacco is bad for you, who said it wasn't, people are taking whatever they want from this thread and meandering with it like a lost chicken. Whats that got to do with cannabis, why do it in the first place, why drink coffee, why get up this morning, why do anything, people do it because they want to or they feel like it. Can see this thread is lost completely [lol]
Ah, so what about the landlord who is serving after hours or the tobacconist who sells cigarettes to someone under age? They are breaking the law, do you see them in the same light as a drug dealer?
fred, what a dammed awful comparison! And I am not even going to bother giving it the light of day by dissectioning it.:(
Its pretty obvious to everyone smokers and non smokers that tobacco is bad for you, who said it wasn't, people are taking whatever they want from this thread and meandering with it like a lost chicken. Whats that got to do with cannabis, why do it in the first place, why drink coffee, why get up this morning, why do anything, people do it because they want to or they feel like it. Can see this thread is lost completely [lol]
Thread is a bit lost right enough although as has been said again and again is a forum not for discussion and expression - lost chickens or not!
fred, what a dammed awful comparison! And I am not even going to bother giving it the light of day by dissectioning it.:(
Neither can anyone else by the look of it.
Drug dealers are businessmen. Plenty of other Businessmen sell things that are known to cause damage and problems. If there were not a queue of young people wanting to buy Ecstacy etc, then there would not be Dealers waiting to sell it to them.
All too often the blame is put on dealers getting kids hooked on the drug, when the focus should be on why kids see the need to resort to drugs in order to make life "sexy", "exciting", "cool" etc
It is akin to blaming an alcoholic's downfall on the bartender who pulled his first pint. Responsibility must start with the consumer. Drinking is merely sanitised drug abuse. Like "drugs", alcohol has casual users, heavier users and addicts. Many of today's users of drugs are very well to do professionals, Doctor's, Dentists etc. They have their cocaine delivered by "Taxi" and their dealers are often amongst the most important people in their lives.
To me, it is a little two-faced to be battering out the morality of drugs with your kids whilst being three parts piddled on the old "Electric Soup" yourself.
There is a bigger social problem that needs addressing but too many people love the "Falling Down Water" for that to ever be properly tackled.
scorrie,would you really and truly stand up in front of a class of school children and propose that hypothesis? I doubt I have ever heard a bigger lot of old wellie in all my born days.:(
percy toboggan
30-May-07, 22:53
I guess nobody is allowed a second chance in life, ok so maybe its his own fault he lost his house but don't think he needs to be damned to hell. I'd be ashamed of myself if I talked about people like that and couldn't bring myself to forgive them.
This bloke is a piece of scum. You are ultra liberal, ultra-gullible.
Drug dealers need to be locked up for decades. Get the dirt off the streets.
How would you feel if he had approached you rkids trying to sell them illegal drugs? I'd feel like strangling him,whether I would or not is open to question.
To Fred: Fags and Beer are legal, produced to industry standards and the health risks are well documented, even included in the packaging. Get real. You trot out such half-baked cliches one wonders whether you're on 'summat' yerself.
...Now I am not disinterested in this topic.
Some time I will have to retire. How then to keep myself afloat? The answer is obvious. I shall become a drug dealer. As a silvery haired old gent with a plummy Edinburgh accent and a Watsonian tie, nobody would suspect me. And doing business with me would be good for you all. A bit of decent chat, no nose-rigs and tatoos, home delivery - what could be better.
So I will be seeing you all. Quite soon. I'll be sitting with my fellow pensioners on the bench in Sir John's Square. I'll be the guy with the big hemp bag....
Oh rich, I don't think anyone is taking you seriously. Besides they all know that you don't drive and doing deliveries on your bike is, well, kind of dangerous.
To Fred: Fags and Beer are legal, produced to industry standards and the health risks are well documented, even included in the packaging. Get real. You trot out such half-baked cliches one wonders whether you're on 'summat' yerself.
I am being real, what you say makes no difference to my argument, a harmful drug made to high standards is still a harmful drug.
scorrie,would you really and truly stand up in front of a class of school children and propose that hypothesis? I doubt I have ever heard a bigger lot of old wellie in all my born days.:(
I most certainly would stand up and tell it like it is. We need to tackle the problem by analysing what is so wrong with our society that our kids need to seek solace in drugs, rather than trotting out the dangers of drugs and pretending that the "Bogeyman" Drug Dealer is waiting on the street corner to sink their "Vampire" teeth into the virginal neck of our innocent bairn.
I have no doubt that some drugs, when used appropriately, are safe and have a recreational appeal to some people. It is well known that Cigarettes and Alcohol are bad for health and can prove to be killers. Alcohol has that added ability to kill indirectly through loss of self-control, co-ordination, reasoning etc Statistically a bigger danger and a constant menace to Society but it is deemed to be legal by those in authority and so we have to view the sight of alcopops with their bright colours and sweet flavours being allowed to target young people and encourage underage drinking and kid ourselves on that the manufacturers are nice, law-abiding guys, when in fact, they are ruthlessly trying to get nippers hooked on their e number laden rocket fuel.
It has been well documented that prohibition did not work for Alcohol, what makes anyone think that it work any better with "drugs"? We should stop pretending that the tail is wagging the dog here. The dog is on his haunches begging for his "Scooby Snack", you just know that someone will come along and drop that little treat into his paw, so long as the price is right.
Consider this "Wellie" if you wish. I am well repected for my views by many professional people and I aim to look deeper in search of the truth. If you can put together an analysis of the situation capable of rebutting my input then I will have more admiration for that than for your two-line gutter press type retort.
"These Boots were made for talkin"
i have said it before and i will say it again - It is time the people at the top took a serious and hard look at the drug problem in this country. To do that they MUST consider legalising Drugs. Now before anyone loses the plot with me i am not saying that legalisation is the way to go but it MIGHT be and without looking at it in detail and carefully considering the implications, positives and negatives then we are never going to know are we?
it strikes me that refusing to consider it is like making a journey and refusing to take right turns on principle - stupid and likely to take a lot longer to get to your destination.
And before anyone accuses me of being some sort of junkie - i have never smoked - unless you count the half a ciggie i had out of a packet before i swapped the rest for a bottle of cider at a party when i was 15. I have only ever taken a couple of - i dont even know how you would say it - Drags? puffs? of a joint which left me so incapacitated that i would never ever do it again. I dont even take a paracetoemol for a headache never mind anything more scary - yeuch yeuch yeuch. I havent drank more than a glas of wine since October last year and nothing since new year at all.
As a society we have to have a sensible discussion on this subject or we are never ever going to truly understand or resolve the problems we have with drug users and drug sellers.
Lolabelle
31-May-07, 00:23
[quote=fred
How do you work out that one if worse than the other? If the drug dealer was selling cannabis he was selling the safest least addictive drug of the three.[/quote]
I really have to beg to differ there fred. I have seen the effects of cannibis abuse first hand and I believe it is every bit as bad and dangerous as any other drug, or addiction. It had made a family member paroniod and dysfunctional. It had effected other members of the family by assosiation and I know that it leads to other drugs. I don't care what anyone says to the contrary I have seen this happen in more that a couple of lives. Usually the only people who thinks it doesn't hurt anyone or is not addictive are the people who use it, or ones who haven't really had anything to do with it. It is addictive and it is dangerous and it is illegal. And it destroys lives. [evil]
A dealer is a dealer .... out to make a quick buck and to hell with the problems thats causes. I hope he rots in his is car!!!
I really have to beg to differ there fred. I have seen the effects of cannibis abuse first hand and I believe it is every bit as bad and dangerous as any other drug, or addiction. It had made a family member paroniod and dysfunctional. It had effected other members of the family by assosiation and I know that it leads to other drugs. I don't care what anyone says to the contrary I have seen this happen in more that a couple of lives. Usually the only people who thinks it doesn't hurt anyone or is not addictive are the people who use it, or ones who haven't really had anything to do with it. It is addictive and it is dangerous and it is illegal. And it destroys lives. [evil]
Once again seeing as people are having great difficulty understanding simple English.
Alcohol also has adverse affects, alcohol ruins peoples lives alcohol kills people, it is more addictive and more harmful than cannabis. Why is the person who sells drugs hated so much someone would put them into a car crusher yet the person who sells alcohol is seen as a fine upstanding pillar of the community?
It's a simple enough question but for some reason everyone wants to argue something else instead of answering it.
A dealer is a dealer .... out to make a quick buck and to hell with the problems thats causes. I hope he rots in his is car!!!
He's a capitalist you mean?
i dont do drugs, i dont smoke, and since ive had my wee girl i have the occasional glass of wine, selling drugs is ILLEGAL! thats the difference between! Drug dealers sell drugs and in some cases they sell bad lots of drugs that they dont know whats in it, this man was dealing ecstasy, how can anyone stick up for him.......if he was a member of my family i wouldve disowned him! would not put my child or my own life in danger!
Penelope Pitstop
31-May-07, 09:49
I thought it was ecstasy he was done for dealing in?
It was ecstacy ........ seems to be cannabis that is getting discussed!
NickInTheNorth
31-May-07, 10:01
Once again seeing as people are having great difficulty understanding simple English.
Alcohol also has adverse affects, alcohol ruins peoples lives alcohol kills people, it is more addictive and more harmful than cannabis. Why is the person who sells drugs hated so much someone would put them into a car crusher yet the person who sells alcohol is seen as a fine upstanding pillar of the community?
It's a simple enough question but for some reason everyone wants to argue something else instead of answering it.
Simple answer then, alcohol is legal.
Ecstacy and cannabis are illegal.
Ergo it is wrong to sell the latter and ok to sell the former.
Feel free to campaign for a change in the law. Or if someone is breaching the terms of their licence to sell alcohol complain, and get them stopped
NickInTheNorth
31-May-07, 10:12
i dont do drugs, i dont smoke, and since ive had my wee girl i have the occasional glass of wine, selling drugs is ILLEGAL! thats the difference between! Drug dealers sell drugs and in some cases they sell bad lots of drugs that they dont know whats in it, this man was dealing ecstasy, how can anyone stick up for him.......if he was a member of my family i wouldve disowned him! would not put my child or my own life in danger!
Ash, totally agree with the no to drugs - I hate them. They have killed too many friends of mine. But the guy has done his time. He deserves a second chance. If he gets caught at it again then lock him up and throw away the key. No-one deserves to be homeless. Been there done that, it is no fun :(
Ash, totally agree with the no to drugs - I hate them. They have killed too many friends of mine. But the guy has done his time. He deserves a second chance. If he gets caught at it again then lock him up and throw away the key. No-one deserves to be homeless. Been there done that, it is no fun :(
i never said i would want him to be homeless but alot of housing companies are obivously against having a known drug dealer in their housing, im just saying i wouldnt be happy if he was rehoused next to me.....
But the guy has done his time. He deserves a second chance. If he gets caught at it again then lock him up and throw away the key. No-one deserves to be homeless. Been there done that, it is no fun :(
I agree, he has done his time and who's to say he hasn't learnt from his mistake. If he isn't re-housed and giving a second chance what hope has he got living in a car.
Simple answer then, alcohol is legal.
Ecstacy and cannabis are illegal.
Ergo it is wrong to sell the latter and ok to sell the former.
Feel free to campaign for a change in the law. Or if someone is breaching the terms of their licence to sell alcohol complain, and get them stopped
As I pointed out earlier selling alcohol out of hours is illegal, selling cigarettes to someone under age is illegal but nobody wants to put those who do it into car crushes. Not so long ago selling alcohol in Wick was illegal but you could still get whisky in a tea cup illegally in the cafes, nobody wanted to put the cafe owner in a car crush.
Obviously that isn't the reason that's just an excuse and not a very good one at that.
selling cigarettes to someone under age is illegal
Selling alcohol to under 18's is illegal and there is plenty licensed premises doing it.
drugs are more harmful than alchol, have u ever heard of someone taking a sip of vodka and dying? but i bet you have heard of someone taking and ecstasy tablet and dying!
drugs are more harmful than alchol, have u ever heard of someone taking a sip of vodka and dying? but i bet you have heard of someone taking and ecstasy tablet and dying!
I have heard of many people dying from the effects of alcohol including young people drinking it for the first time. I've also heard of many innocent people dying indirectly as a result of someone drinking alcohol, killed by a drunk driver for example.
You keep searching for minute differences to try and to explain the hatred in peoples hearts but it will take a lot more than that. There is a huge difference between the way a drug dealer is perceived and the way a pub landlord is perceived, you are looking for excuses not reasons.
im not looking for excuses but you are trying to get me to agree with you....many people are against drugs, and im one of them, im not going to change my mind...... drugs, drink and smoking are all dangerous substances, but what im saying is that someone selling illegal substances should have to deal with the consquences, and as for getting a second chance...why should they be trusted? would u trust a paedophile after he was realeased as i certainly wouldnt![disgust]
drugs are more harmful than alchol, have u ever heard of someone taking a sip of vodka and dying? but i bet you have heard of someone taking and ecstasy tablet and dying!
Alcohol is a lethal drug-large amounts can cause death by putting to sleep part of the brain which directs respiratory system.
It is responsible for drink-driving crashes.
It is also responsible for suicides, drowning,fatal accidents and Cirrhosis of the liver.
Some parents breathe a sigh of relief when they find out their teenager is "only" drinking alcohol, "at least he's not taking drugs", often they say "beer is not that bad".
Not True, alcohol is a harmful substance. Still more parents think it's the lesser of two evils because it's legal, and are more accepting of its use.
Lax attitudes have led to a continuing increase in alcohol by teenagers and today it's the most commonly used mind-altering substance.
Alcohol is a killer!!
end of the day people chose to drink,smoke and take drugs, its their own fault!
its the people who are on the other side of the drug and alochol users i feel sorry for!! my sister was one of them!
Did He ever force anyone to buy from him I don't think he did.for every dealer the police catch another pops up.
I also have gone to the police and nothing ever came of it, they searched the person's house and found stuff but that was it.
Give William a break.
cullbucket
31-May-07, 15:24
I have only ever taken a couple of - i dont even know how you would say it - Drags? puffs? of a joint which left me so incapacitated that i would never ever do it again.
I believe the correct term is "Hull"
" ... The one thing that really confussed me about Caithness is most people's refusal to see what is on their doorsteps, the guy in question to which this thread was started is insignificant compaired to those who are dealing the hard drugs, the drugs that kill.
I have been away from the area for some years and have not really kept up with the local news, but is there now a big hard drug (heroin or cocaine) problem in Caithness?
there is alot of hard drugs in caithness now and its very scary![evil]
A dealer is a dealer .... out to make a quick buck and to hell with the problems thats causes. I hope he rots in his is car!!!
My father was an alcoholic for most of his life, it finally killed him last year. I'd happily see the bar owners who were out to make their "quick buck" rot in cars too.
im not looking for excuses but you are trying to get me to agree with you....many people are against drugs, and im one of them, im not going to change my mind...... drugs, drink and smoking are all dangerous substances, but what im saying is that someone selling illegal substances should have to deal with the consquences, and as for getting a second chance...why should they be trusted? would u trust a paedophile after he was realeased as i certainly wouldnt![disgust]
I'm trying to get people to think about why they hate other people, it's never done anybody any good but people just keep of doing it anyway and never stop to wonder why. There is a big difference between not trusting a paedophile and hating a paedophile, not trusting one is rational, hating one isn't.
I'm trying to get people to think about why they hate other people, it's never done anybody any good but people just keep of doing it anyway and never stop to wonder why. There is a big difference between not trusting a paedophile and hating a paedophile, not trusting one is rational, hating one isn't.
im sorry but i can honestly say i hate padeophiles! they are sick human beings! drug dealers and takers are just plain stupid!!!
SO THERE!!!
connieb19
31-May-07, 17:53
This bloke is a piece of scum. You are ultra liberal, ultra-gullible.
Drug dealers need to be locked up for decades. Get the dirt off the streets.
How would you feel if he had approached you rkids trying to sell them illegal drugs? I'd feel like strangling him,whether I would or not is open to question.
To Fred: Fags and Beer are legal, produced to industry standards and the health risks are well documented, even included in the packaging. Get real. You trot out such half-baked cliches one wonders whether you're on 'summat' yerself.
How would you feel if your kids approached this man looking for drugs, would you want them locked up for decades too?
This bloke was found with £400 in his house, big wow, you'd think the police would be out trying to catch the dealers who are running about in fancy new cars and fancy houses.
I'm trying to get people to think about why they hate other people, it's never done anybody any good but people just keep of doing it anyway and never stop to wonder why. There is a big difference between not trusting a paedophile and hating a paedophile, not trusting one is rational, hating one isn't.
I guess you have to have been abused by a paedophile to be able to rationally hate one.....
percy toboggan
31-May-07, 18:36
[quote=connieb19;228981]How would you feel if your kids approached this man looking for drugs, would you want them locked up for decades too?
quote]
Certainly for a year or so. A salutary lesson. Okay, there are drugs inside Prisons too. I would disown any child of mine who was selling illegal drugs.
If they were adicts I'd do all I could to help them - twice. If continuing addiction set them on the slipery road to ruin they'd be on their own.
This might sound harsh, I'm a harsh man - so were my parents...I never brought any shame to their door. Remember shame? Many people don't it seems. Society is the poorer for it in my opinion.
connieb19
31-May-07, 18:53
[quote=connieb19;228981]How would you feel if your kids approached this man looking for drugs, would you want them locked up for decades too?
quote]
Certainly for a year or so. A salutary lesson. Okay, there are drugs inside Prisons too. I would disown any child of mine who was selling illegal drugs.
If they were adicts I'd do all I could to help them - twice. If continuing addiction set them on the slipery road to ruin they'd be on their own.
This might sound harsh, I'm a harsh man - so were my parents...I never brought any shame to their door. Remember shame? Many people don't it seems. Society is the poorer for it in my opinion.How would you feel if they weren't addicts but maybe dabbling now and again at the weekend, would you still want them locked up, I'm just curious.
percy toboggan
31-May-07, 19:34
[quote=percy toboggan;228994]How would you feel if they weren't addicts but maybe dabbling now and again at the weekend, would you still want them locked up, I'm just curious.
I'm not. I've gone enough down this hypothetical road thanks. However..
I'm not naive enough to think my children , in their late teenage years - more likely in their early twenties did not 'dabble' thankfully they had the moral compass and presence of mind to cease 'dabbling' A prison sentence for such a brief excursion would have been counter productive. I'd happily have seen them prosecuted though, and perhaps a small fine. They would have been mortified and I would not have been happy.
I too have dabbled - once. I smoked some cannabis when I was forty odd and thoughtthe whole exercise pointless. It cost me sixteen quid. What it did do was to briefly restart my cigarette smoking career after a thirteen year lay off. Happily I soon kicked the fags and the whole sorry episode is behind me now. I do not speak from complete ignorance.
Yoda the flump
01-Jun-07, 19:13
I've given up tobacco and I don't smoke cannabis. No its not fairly obvious cannabis damages your health, obviously your quoting me but not reading me?
No? Without looking at all the differeny chemicals you are putting into your lungs are you overlooking the fact that inhaling smoke certainly in not good for you.
Therefore it is bad for your health - you might want to argue that it is not as harmful as tobacco, but that is a different issue.
I know from scientific research that it is a lot less addictive, I've known plenty of alcoholics and plenty of people addicted to nicotine but never anyone addicted to cannabis.
No drug is completely harmless but of the three cannabis is the least harmful and least addictive.
We all know the misery alcohol addiction can cause, homes broken, spouses and children abused. We know the medical conditions associated with chronic alcohol abuse, people die in their prime because of it.
How come someone who sells cannabis is seen as a demon and the pub landlord as a fine upstanding pillar of the community?
I have seen far more lives ruined by drink than i have by cannabis, but because cannabis is illegal people are more likely to assume that it is worse than drink.:confused
I've seen more lives ruined by the org than by cannabis. Does that make me a junkie?
I've seen more lives ruined by the org than by cannabis. Does that make me a junkie?
No, you just dabble a little at weekends.
Well im a smoker and have tried loads of time to stop smoking and failed so god knows what its like for a druggy to quit.Personally i think a druggy should be removed from society and forced into a quitting programme were they have no choice and i reckon they would thank you in the long run because the vast majority of them wont do it themselves because they dont have the will power.
If your addicted to druggs and need £90 a day to support the habit and your unemployed you can see why they commit crime time and time again thats why they should be forced to stop
connieb19
03-Jun-07, 15:10
Well im a smoker and have tried loads of time to stop smoking and failed so god knows what its like for a druggy to quit.Personally i think a druggy should be removed from society and forced into a quitting programme were they have no choice and i reckon they would thank you in the long run because the vast majority of them wont do it themselves because they dont have the will power.
If your addicted to druggs and need £90 a day to support the habit and your unemployed you can see why they commit crime time and time again thats why they should be forced to stop
What about people who work all week and only take drugs at the weekend then back to work all week, not everyone who takes drugs is an addict, should they be forced to stop too? Everyone who smokes is addicted though, maybe it's them who have no willpower and should be forced into a quitting programme. :confused
Margaret M.
03-Jun-07, 15:25
If your addicted to druggs and need £90 a day to support the habit and your unemployed you can see why they commit crime time and time again thats why they should be forced to stop
.........that's why all drugs should be legalized just like their counterparts --cigarettes and alcohol. Take the criminal element out of it so it is safer for the consumer and law enforcement can spend time on more meaningful pursuits. Legalize drugs, tax them and let each choose whether or not to partake. If one is given to addiction, a way will be found to feed it.
Well im a smoker and have tried loads of time to stop smoking and failed so god knows what its like for a druggy to quit.Personally i think a druggy should be removed from society and forced into a quitting programme were they have no choice and i reckon they would thank you in the long run because the vast majority of them wont do it themselves because they dont have the will power.
If your addicted to druggs and need £90 a day to support the habit and your unemployed you can see why they commit crime time and time again thats why they should be forced to stop
You are a smoker of tobacco therefore, you too are a druggy, hooked on the most pointless of all drugs because you have to smoke merely to stay normal.
.........that's why all drugs should be legalized just like their counterparts --cigarettes and alcohol. Take the criminal element out of it so it is safer for the consumer and law enforcement can spend time on more meaningful pursuits. Legalize drugs, tax them and let each choose whether or not to partake. If one is given to addiction, a way will be found to feed it.
It is a pity that common sense is so uncommon, is it not.
I notice that quite a lot of folk seem to think that cannabis is addictive not according to this report on the link below it isnt, as it says .....
Although not physically addictive (in the same way as heroin is), regular users can become psychologically dependent, and feel they can't get by without it.
Which just goes to show that its more a Psychological problem than an addiction, but no doubt there are those who will still disagree.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio1/onelife/health/drugs/cannabis.shtml
as a person who is dead against drugs...why should it be legallised? it must be illegal for a reason, why is it illegal?
as a person who is dead against drugs...why should it be legallised? it must be illegal for a reason, why is it illegal?
There was a time when alcohol was illegal lol..... so why not legalise cannabis?
as a person who is dead against drugs...why should it be legallised? it must be illegal for a reason, why is it illegal?
Cannabis was the excuse used to make the hemp plant illegal and the story is too long to tell here. One of the biggest bits of political sleaze of the last century.
ok....i find drugs disgusting,never tried them never wanted to,same with cigarettes, and dont actually really drink, some people might think im boring but its a personal choice!
so what your saying is that you still participate in drinking which is a substance that can lead to addiction:confused
i have the odd drink like once every blue moon, i know for a fact i would never be addicted, i use to drink before i had my wee one, but once you have a child u put them 1st and thats what i have done, i despise people who smoke when pregnant or with a child, i would never smoke cannabis child or no child and i would certainly never drink with my child,
I believe that cannabis should be legalized then there would be less chance of dealers making money out of selling it and less chance of them mixing it with god knows what, What i am against in hard drugs like Heroin as i know only to well the traill of destruction and devistation it can cause, that and drink aswell.
well obviously im dead against the really hard stuff but now there is drugs everywhere, ive distanced myself from friends as they are taking speed and ecstasy ect, i get annoyed when people say cannabis doesnt ruin lives i know 3 people who were close family who are still takin it, he is paranoid, can be very horrible at times and on the occasion he tried to stop smoking cannabis for months at a time he was a changed man, it does affect people, but everyones different[disgust]
Like i have said cannabis does affect people who have psychological problems which in turn can make them paranoid, I have friends who wouldnt give it up because they say they dont like being without it,
it can also cause problems with those who have mental health issue's like depression and as you say everyone is different but i totally disagree that it is an adictive drug.
the people who i know that take it have no mental problems, i know people who take it at weekends and it just makes me think less of them, sorry by thats the way i feel, i respect ur beliefs
you are entitled to your beliefs and opinions and i respect that, but i personnaly think cannabis is an insignificant drug...... (no doubt i'll get shot to pieces for saying that)...... but i have lost friends and family through heroin and i ts heartbreaking... but i strongly believe that if cannabis were legalised then the government could spend more time and money cracking down on the big drug dealers
end of the day its an illegal drug, i very much doubt it will be legalised, i hope its not!
Jeemag_USA
03-Jun-07, 17:55
end of the day its an illegal drug, i very much doubt it will be legalised, i hope its not!
Maybe you could just tell us all once more how much you dislike drugs, tell us how much you despise people incase anyone missed it the first 7 or 8 times :lol:
ok....i find drugs disgusting,never tried them never wanted to,same with cigarettes, and dont actually really drink, some people might think im boring but its a personal choice!
Yes Ash it's your personal choice which you would still have even if cannabis were legal, they don't want to make it compulsory. People like you could not smoke it all they wanted and people like them could smoke it if they wished, everyone happy.
Yoda the flump
03-Jun-07, 19:24
Yes Ash it's your personal choice which you would still have even if cannabis were legal, they don't want to make it compulsory. People like you could not smoke it all they wanted and people like them could smoke it if they wished, everyone happy.
Well thats not a choice that anybody can make is it Fred and as cannabis is unlikely to be legalised in the foreseeable future that argument is irrelevant.
danc1ngwitch
03-Jun-07, 19:37
as a person who is dead against drugs...why should it be legallised? it must be illegal for a reason, why is it illegal?
possibly because man is narrow minded.
I think it's up to you, if you want to take drugs cause it calms you or makes you feel good then so be it. Like I said i will not put anything into my body unless its supposed to be there, and feeling good comes in many forms, simple cuddles make you feel great and worth while. Do drugs make you feel worth while?
danc1ngwitch
03-Jun-07, 19:40
ok....i find drugs disgusting,never tried them never wanted to,same with cigarettes, and dont actually really drink, some people might think im boring but its a personal choice!
oh my i am the same dont smoke dont drink and i think people might think im boring[lol]
Maybe you could just tell us all once more how much you dislike drugs, tell us how much you despise people incase anyone missed it the first 7 or 8 times :lol:
im allowed to say what i want![disgust]
Some statistics from Drugscope site:-
England and Wales
The following represent the ONS data of the total number of deaths from drug use involving the following drugs in England and Wales from 2000 to 2004 which vary as indicated. The figures are based on the International Classification of Diseases, 9th revision - ICD 9 (from 2001, cause of death is coded to ICD-10) -No differentiation is made as to whether the underlying cause of death was drug dependence, accidental poisoning/overdose, related to the drug use or whether one or more drug was implicated - resulting possibly in some double-counting.
Table 1 Drug-related deaths in England and Wales 2000 to 2004[4]
Cocaine 575
Amphetamine 384
Ecstasy 227
Solvents 246[3]
Opiates (heroin, morphine & methadone) 4,976
Alcohol 25,000 - 200,000 approx.
Tobacco half a million approx (UK - [1] )
Look at those lovely, LEGAL babies at the bottom of the table!!
I notice that there is no mention of cannabis on there lol
Yoda the flump
03-Jun-07, 21:47
Question is, what would the figures look like if the others were legal - not so small I think.
Some statistics from Drugscope site:-
England and Wales
The following represent the ONS data of the total number of deaths from drug use involving the following drugs in England and Wales from 2000 to 2004 which vary as indicated. The figures are based on the International Classification of Diseases, 9th revision - ICD 9 (from 2001, cause of death is coded to ICD-10) -No differentiation is made as to whether the underlying cause of death was drug dependence, accidental poisoning/overdose, related to the drug use or whether one or more drug was implicated - resulting possibly in some double-counting.
Table 1 Drug-related deaths in England and Wales 2000 to 2004[4]
Cocaine 575
Amphetamine 384
Ecstasy 227
Solvents 246[3]
Opiates (heroin, morphine & methadone) 4,976
Alcohol 25,000 - 200,000 approx.
Tobacco half a million approx (UK - [1] )
Look at those lovely, LEGAL babies at the bottom of the table!!
i dont think it,s quite fair to compare on this scale think it would be fairer if a comparison of say 10,000 each as there are no doubt millions more smokers & drinkers than there are drug users. but either way through drink & fags. some revinue through taxes goes toward treating the people affected. drugs the money goes straight into the dealer,s pusher,s pockets & the medicare is left to the taxpayer to foot the bill.
Some statistics from Drugscope site:-
England and Wales
The following represent the ONS data of the total number of deaths from drug use involving the following drugs in England and Wales from 2000 to 2004 which vary as indicated. The figures are based on the International Classification of Diseases, 9th revision - ICD 9 (from 2001, cause of death is coded to ICD-10) -No differentiation is made as to whether the underlying cause of death was drug dependence, accidental poisoning/overdose, related to the drug use or whether one or more drug was implicated - resulting possibly in some double-counting.
Table 1 Drug-related deaths in England and Wales 2000 to 2004[4]
Cocaine 575
Amphetamine 384
Ecstasy 227
Solvents 246[3]
Opiates (heroin, morphine & methadone) 4,976
Alcohol 25,000 - 200,000 approx.
Tobacco half a million approx (UK - [1] )
Look at those lovely, LEGAL babies at the bottom of the table!!
I don't for a second question the lethal nature of alcohol and tobacco. But to make the numbers tell the real story one has to put them in percentages of users. That might be a more difficult statistic to generate, although I am sure that there is some health agency that has estimates for the number of users in the country.
Certainly as far as impact on society and the economy the shear numbers of alcohol and tobacco deaths are profound. But the ratio of deaths to users might paint a different picture if the issue being discussed is the seriousness of the consequences of the drugs being used.
oh my i am the same dont smoke dont drink and i think people might think im boring[lol]
At least you can admit to it, that's the first step towards recovery.
There has been some bygolly loud and lauded opionions on this one.And quite rightly to. Each to their own I say,an "my one"is that drugs, and lets not confuse booze n baccy, an I have done lectures here (all in the eye of the beholder)means drugs, know what I mean.Dirty mean, must have, no matter what,open your eyes, thisisen't heresay, it's upfront. Least its how my teaching points me,Like I said ,you coulden't convince in a million years.
At least you can admit to it, that's the first step towards recovery.
i dont smoke or drink and am anything but boring ,so im told.:cool:[lol]
connieb19
03-Jun-07, 23:03
i dont smoke or drink and am anything but boring ,so im told.Are you on drugs lol? :eek::lol:
Are you on drugs lol? :eek::lol:
Naw Connie, i,ll hardly take an aspirin, might be half mad though.
Yet another reason to avoid smoking cannabis:
Quote:
"Samantha is 37 and has emphysema, a progressive condition normally associated with older people who have smoked tobacco regularly throughout their lives. Samantha's doctor, Dr Onn Min Kon, a consultant physician of respiratory medicine at St Mary's Hospital in London, believes her cannabis smoking may be to blame for her condition."
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/6551327.stm
I don't for a second question the lethal nature of alcohol and tobacco. But to make the numbers tell the real story one has to put them in percentages of users. That might be a more difficult statistic to generate, although I am sure that there is some health agency that has estimates for the number of users in the country.
Certainly as far as impact on society and the economy the shear numbers of alcohol and tobacco deaths are profound. But the ratio of deaths to users might paint a different picture if the issue being discussed is the seriousness of the consequences of the drugs being used.
I posted these figures solely to query why alcohol and tobacco are legal, when they are responsible for so many deaths?
Clearly they represent a far bigger problem than drugs.
I posted these figures solely to query why alcohol and tobacco are legal, when they are responsible for so many deaths?
Exactly.
Most of us can only really speak from our own personal experience. I don't smoke, drink or take "street" drugs. Mrs Boring, I know!
Of the folk I know who do smoke cannabis, it doesn't seem to cause any problems. I don't know of anyone among my family or friends who takes any harder drugs, but they may well do, or may have done in the past - I'm just not aware of it.
I do know a fair few folk whose drinking can get them into trouble though, one way or another, and two of my friends have died through alcohol mis-use. There's a few who are also really struggling to stop smoking, as well.
Jeemag_USA
04-Jun-07, 12:51
I posted these figures solely to query why alcohol and tobacco are legal, when they are responsible for so many deaths?
Clearly they represent a far bigger problem than drugs.
It was a good point too Scorrie. Most people have a distaste for people smoking herb because its illegal, and will voice an opinion on it without having any knowledge of the drug at all, they just like to call people criminals because they have nothing better to do. Alcohol and Tobacco are seriously more dangerous but although irritating to some they are much more socially acceptable in the average human mind because they have been around so long and they are legal so they should be ok. Its not just about the deaths they cause, you also have to consider the amount of families that alcohol has broken up and the amount of children affected psychologically or even suffering psycosis from effects of broken families due to alcoholics, when I was growing up every third kid or so had parents suffering a divorce, and alcohol was usually the cause or was being used during the break up as a form of escape. But of course your still a demon if you smoke pot because your a drain on the world stock of chocolate bars [lol]
there is no doubt that tobacco and drink, [specially together] cause many serious problems ,but and it,s a BUT, they ARE legal and the proceeds of them go straight into the government,s coffers and they do go along way in paying for the harm that they do. whilst the proceeds of drug,s only subsidise the the dealers & the Pushers. if we are to condemn taxable things like booze & tobacco why not go the whole hog and take flying and cars into it. what amount of harm doe,s the motoring world do to the earth, but then again they are already hit to the limit by taxation and at least the manufacturers are doing something to lower the omitions. i still think that legalising even the least harmfull drugs would be a big big mistake. myself personally i would love to see alchohol and tobacco banned also,
[disgust]
Jeemag_USA
04-Jun-07, 15:11
there is no doubt that tobacco and drink, [specially together] cause many serious problems ,but and it,s a BUT, they ARE legal and the proceeds of them go straight into the government,s coffers and they do go along way in paying for the harm that they do. whilst the proceeds of drug,s only subsidise the the dealers & the Pushers. if we are to condemn taxable things like booze & tobacco why not go the whole hog and take flying and cars into it. what amount of harm doe,s the motoring world do to the earth, but then again they are already hit to the limit by taxation and at least the manufacturers are doing something to lower the omitions. i still think that legalising even the least harmfull drugs would be a big big mistake. myself personally i would love to see alchohol and tobacco banned also,
[disgust]
Alcohol banned in the UK only or all across the world. Think the Whisky and Beer industry might have something to say against that. if more governments would understand its freedom of choice, if people want to drink alcohol and smoke and kill themselves with it then it is their choice, so people should have the choice to smoke cannabis too, especially as it is least harmful, if you don't like it nobody will force you to do it. Banning alcohol would be extremely stupid and devastating to Scotland's economy.
I posted these figures solely to query why alcohol and tobacco are legal, when they are responsible for so many deaths?
Clearly they represent a far bigger problem than drugs.
Fair enough, but you didn't say that in your original post.
My suggestion is that in looking at the harmfulness of the various drugs it is important to compare the number of deaths to the number of users. If the death rate is 50% in any of the user populations then I would say that is a serious drug. However, if it is less than 1%, then maybe it is less serious.
Certainly, the percentage of users in the total population is another issue to be explored.
Now if we really want to look at a harmful chemical in our lives then I suggest we consider sugar. But this thread was about drug dealers. On that front I think that I may have convinced rich to alter his retirement plans somewhat.
Alcohol banned in the UK only or all across the world. Think the Whisky and Beer industry might have something to say against that. if more governments would understand its freedom of choice, if people want to drink alcohol and smoke and kill themselves with it then it is their choice, so people should have the choice to smoke cannabis too, especially as it is least harmful, if you don't like it nobody will force you to do it. Banning alcohol would be extremely stupid and devastating to Scotland's economy.
that was just my personal opinion jeemac.
every one has the right to form their own, no disrespect
Jeemag_USA
04-Jun-07, 17:26
that was just my personal opinion jeemac.
every one has the right to form their own, no disrespect
Of course, not knocking your opinion, just don't think banning alcohol would be very advisable for the economy. I would think an easier path would be to ban smoking anywhere except in your own home, and promote more sensible use of alcohol. I think you could take tobacco and deep fried mars bars out of Scotland, but take away the drink and we are all doomed I tell ya :Razz
Fair enough, but you didn't say that in your original post.
My suggestion is that in looking at the harmfulness of the various drugs it is important to compare the number of deaths to the number of users. If the death rate is 50% in any of the user populations then I would say that is a serious drug. However, if it is less than 1%, then maybe it is less serious.
Certainly, the percentage of users in the total population is another issue to be explored.
Now if we really want to look at a harmful chemical in our lives then I suggest we consider sugar. But this thread was about drug dealers. On that front I think that I may have convinced rich to alter his retirement plans somewhat.
I was a bit pressed for time when I posted the stats but I thought that the figures were clear enough in themselves to represent which substances are doing most damage to us. I also put the word "legal" in capitals to stress where I was coming from.
I suppose it illustrates that one needs to make oneself clear, to avoid the wrong end of the stick being taken.
Just to clarify my position, I don't smoke or take drugs, never have done. I drink socially but I do not see why my potentially addictive substance of choice should be any more legal than any other substance which can give major problems but which can be used recreationally, in a controlled manner by some of its users. The guy snorting Cocaine on a Friday and Saturday night, might just be the same guy who is fitting your Mum with a new hip the following Monday!!
Yoda the flump
04-Jun-07, 17:58
Of course, not knocking your opinion, just don't think banning alcohol would be very advisable for the economy. I would think an easier path would be to ban smoking anywhere except in your own home, and promote more sensible use of alcohol. I think you could take tobacco and deep fried mars bars out of Scotland, but take away the drink and we are all doomed I tell ya :Razz
Is that not the way it is going in Scotland - there are less and less places that smokers can smoke and they are looking at cracking down on cheap drink offers.
percy toboggan
04-Jun-07, 17:59
The guy snorting Cocaine on a Friday and Saturday night, might just be the same guy who is fitting your Mum with a new hip the following Monday!!
Blimey, I hope he offers her a couple of nostrils full first.
Blimey, I hope he offers her a couple of nostrils full first.
One of John Major's advisers on medical matters, a doctor, was a selfconfessed heroin addict who used to inject before his meetings with the, then, Prime Minister.
percy toboggan
04-Jun-07, 18:09
One of John Major's advisers on medical matters, a doctor, was a selfconfessed heroin addict who used to inject before his meetings with the, then, Prime Minister.
Major seemed so bland as a bloke that some stimulus may well have been justified. :)
One wonders just what Edwina was on when he bedded her?
Ambition perhaps?
Blimey, I hope he offers her a couple of nostrils full first.
No need for that, many users are professionals who do not mix work with pleasure. We need to move away from the notion that "druggies" are low-life who carry out their habit in some seedy bedsit or squat.
danc1ngwitch
04-Jun-07, 20:20
At least you can admit to it, that's the first step towards recovery.
Yippy, at last recovery,:roll:but then i'v got a long way to go.
Ah well if i was to go out, get drunk, pop a pill or two, slever over every man i see in the pub, spew in a few corners, wake up and not be able to look at food the next day, i'd be kwel?
Ermmm, nope, i mean i'd be a dope to do that[lol]
I was a bit pressed for time when I posted the stats but I thought that the figures were clear enough in themselves to represent which substances are doing most damage to us. I also put the word "legal" in capitals to stress where I was coming from.
I suppose it illustrates that one needs to make oneself clear, to avoid the wrong end of the stick being taken.Excuses, excuses, excuses.
Another member of the PC brigade (men only division) tries to backtrack on his faux pas in small excrements.
Yippy, at last recovery,:roll:but then i'v got a long way to go.
Ah well if i was to go out, get drunk, pop a pill or two, slever over every man i see in the pub, spew in a few corners, wake up and not be able to look at food the next day, i'd be kwel?
Ermmm, nope, i mean i'd be a dope to do that[lol]
There are a lot of people who drink who don't do those things you know, the vast majority in fact. Just as every drug dealer doesn't hang around outside school gates and "give the kids free samples, because he knows full well, that today's young innocent faces, will be tomorrow's clientele."
Excuses, excuses, excuses.
Another member of the PC brigade (men only division) tries to backtrack on his faux pas in small excrements.
What on earth are you talking about? There is no faux pas on my part, merely speculation by others about what they think a set of figures is trying to say. I stand 100% behind my comments, they are logical and well presented. I make an effort to add something to a thread. Unlike yourself, who seems only capable of making cheap swipes. I have yet to read anything of yours that I would rate as insightful or original in nature.
The feather of the Scorrie will always form a sharper quill than a soggy, old, blunt Crayola.
Wax lyrical ;o)
Excuses, excuses, excuses.
Another member of the PC brigade (men only division) tries to backtrack on his faux pas in small excrements.
Did you mean to say "increments", crayola? :confused
What on earth are you talking about? There is no faux pas on my part, merely speculation by others about what they think a set of figures is trying to say. I stand 100% behind my comments, they are logical and well presented. I make an effort to add something to a thread. Unlike yourself, who seems only capable of making cheap swipes. I have yet to read anything of yours that I would rate as insightful or original in nature.
The feather of the Scorrie will always form a sharper quill than a soggy, old, blunt Crayola.
Wax lyrical ;o)
Tally ho!!! Here here!!!![evil]
Jeemag_USA
05-Jun-07, 21:52
What on earth are you talking about? There is no faux pas on my part, merely speculation by others about what they think a set of figures is trying to say. I stand 100% behind my comments, they are logical and well presented. I make an effort to add something to a thread. Unlike yourself, who seems only capable of making cheap swipes. I have yet to read anything of yours that I would rate as insightful or original in nature.
The feather of the Scorrie will always form a sharper quill than a soggy, old, blunt Crayola.
Wax lyrical ;o)
Those were my first thoughts too, no active contribution to the thread only coming in at the end to stir up trouble. Scorrie's reason for posting the figures is a very good one, the ratios matter not a jot, the fact that hundreds of thousands of people die from the abuse of leaglised drugs is an important one, and as most people are harping about cannabis for no reason in this thread the fact that there are no figures on cannabis related deaths speaks volumes. Not the first time I saw that from Crayola though, fishing for a cheap catfight no doubt.
Yoda the flump
05-Jun-07, 22:00
Those were my first thoughts too, no active contribution to the thread only coming in at the end to stir up trouble. Scorrie's reason for posting the figures is a very good one, the ratios matter not a jot, the fact that hundreds of thousands of people die from the abuse of leaglised drugs is an important one, and as most people are harping about cannabis for no reason in this thread the fact that there are no figures on cannabis related deaths speaks volumes. Not the first time I saw that from Crayola though, fishing for a cheap catfight no doubt.
Whilst the figures do show the true extent of the legal drug problem you simply cannot infer that cannabis would not cause as many deaths if its use was legalised.
Cannabis use does have many problems in common with tobacco - this might not be shown in figures, but how many people do you know who smoke 20-40 joints a day day in day out?
Its easy to suggest that cannabis is less of a health risk than tobacco, bit unless you are truly comparing like with like any conclusions you draw are invalid.
Jeemag_USA
05-Jun-07, 22:21
Whilst the figures do show the true extent of the legal drug problem you simply cannot infer that cannabis would not cause as many deaths if its use was legalised.
Cannabis use does have many problems in common with tobacco - this might not be shown in figures, but how many people do you know who smoke 20-40 joints a day day in day out?
Its easy to suggest that cannabis is less of a health risk than tobacco, bit unless you are truly comparing like with like any conclusions you draw are invalid.
Appreciate your opinion but beg to differ, most people don't really understand just how many people are smoking cannabis or marijuana, the figures are huge by comparison to any other drug bar tobacco and alcohol. If someone could actually come up with a figure of how many cannabis or marijuana users there are on a daily basis in the UK you'd be amazed. The point scorrie is trying to get across is that cannabis gets a bad name simply for being illegal and being sourced illegally, but legal drugs are much more dangerous but the government never really explains to the common man why they allow you to use those drugs. Its not even illegal for you to brew your own alcohol at home, which is ironic, the government worries that if they legalised cannabis they wouldn't be able to control it properly so it would not be financially beneficial to them. The fact is if it was made legal the pushers woudl cease to exist because most people would grow their own, you would then have nothing to worry about except maybe putting limits on how many plants a person could grow and preventing people from distributing or profiteering from it, the money saved in ridiculous court cases could be used to help other areas of government policy that need it, such as homeless, medicine etc or even helping treat addicts of other more harmful drugs. The government does not want to legalise marijuana because they know if they do alcohol and tobacco sales would go down and they would make less money. There is a motive behind everything, and the UK governments motive for keeping cannabis and marijuana illegal is not for health reasons, its for financial reasons.
[quote=Jeemag_USA;230644]Appreciate your opinion but beg to differ, most people don't really understand just how many people are smoking cannabis or marijuana, the figures are huge by comparison to any other drug bar tobacco and alcohol. If someone could actually come up with a figure of how many cannabis or marijuana users there are on a daily basis in the UK you'd be amazed. The point scorrie is trying to get across is that cannabis gets a bad name simply for being illegal and being sourced illegally, but legal drugs are much more dangerous but the government never really explains to the common man why they allow you to use those drugs. Its not even illegal for you to brew your own alcohol at home, which is ironic, the government worries that if they legalised cannabis they wouldn't be able to control it properly so it would not be financially beneficial to them. The fact is if it was made legal the pushers woudl cease to exist because most people would grow their own, you would then have nothing to worry about except maybe putting limits on how many plants a person could grow and preventing people from distributing or profiteering from it, the money saved in ridiculous court cases could be used to help other areas of government policy that need it, such as homeless, medicine etc or even helping treat addicts of other more harmful drugs. The government does not want to legalise marijuana because they know if they do alcohol and tobacco sales would go down and they would make less money. There is a motive behind everything, and the UK governments motive for keeping cannabis and marijuana illegal is not for health reasons, its for financial reasons.[/quote
jeemag, putting it like that it,s hard to disagree with you. thats a damn good post & a damn good arguement. but personally im against all narcotics. so i guess i have to agree to disagree with you. still a good post though.
Bobinovich
05-Jun-07, 22:46
Although I'm anti-drugs myself I agree with Johno that that's a crackin' post Jeemag. If people were legally allowed to grow a limited number of plants for their own use in the confines of their own homes then I would consider that an acceptable policy shift. It's akin to making your own home brew or wine!
Yoda the flump
05-Jun-07, 23:17
Appreciate your opinion but beg to differ, most people don't really understand just how many people are smoking cannabis or marijuana, the figures are huge by comparison to any other drug bar tobacco and alcohol. If someone could actually come up with a figure of how many cannabis or marijuana users there are on a daily basis in the UK you'd be amazed. The point scorrie is trying to get across is that cannabis gets a bad name simply for being illegal and being sourced illegally, but legal drugs are much more dangerous but the government never really explains to the common man why they allow you to use those drugs. Its not even illegal for you to brew your own alcohol at home, which is ironic, the government worries that if they legalised cannabis they wouldn't be able to control it properly so it would not be financially beneficial to them. The fact is if it was made legal the pushers woudl cease to exist because most people would grow their own, you would then have nothing to worry about except maybe putting limits on how many plants a person could grow and preventing people from distributing or profiteering from it, the money saved in ridiculous court cases could be used to help other areas of government policy that need it, such as homeless, medicine etc or even helping treat addicts of other more harmful drugs. The government does not want to legalise marijuana because they know if they do alcohol and tobacco sales would go down and they would make less money. There is a motive behind everything, and the UK governments motive for keeping cannabis and marijuana illegal is not for health reasons, its for financial reasons.
I agree that there are a large number of cannabis users in the UK but do they really smoke 20-40 joints a day?
I doubt that they do, and therefore to compare the smoking of one or two joints a day to a 20-40 habit of the average tobacco smoker is not a fair comparison. That amount of smoke going straight into your lungs is not in any way healthy and you will still have the same problem with marijuana, regardless of the other effects.
As to an acceptable use policy how do you control that - you can say grow 10 plants, how do you stop somebody growing 20 or 30?
Legalising a narcotic that has been banned for years is not an easy thing to do, and to use the arguement that it is less of an (unproven) health risk than a substance that has been legal continuously for centuries will not work.
It is unlikely that Asprin would get a licence for use today and tobacco certainly would not.
What on earth are you talking about? There is no faux pas on my part, merely speculation by others about what they think a set of figures is trying to say. I stand 100% behind my comments, they are logical and well presented. I make an effort to add something to a thread. Unlike yourself, who seems only capable of making cheap swipes. I have yet to read anything of yours that I would rate as insightful or original in nature.
The feather of the Scorrie will always form a sharper quill than a soggy, old, blunt Crayola.
Wax lyrical ;o)Logical and well presented? Let's look at again. You presented a set of figures and assumed everyone would interpret them in the way you did. That is sloppy science scorrie, very, very sloppy. Canuck pointed out that your argument was half baked and told you how to do it properly. Yet you have the cheek to defend yourself and claim you were logical. Your post contained no arguments so how could it be logical? You might take a lesson from Jeemag on how to construct a logical argument, but not about nappies. ;)
You will never understand me scorrie, never in a million light years. But I give lessons and I only charge £50 an hour for my 21st century science sessons. I tell you what, I'll give you 50% discount for the first session and you can have the second and third for 25% discount each. I'll have you travelling through time and flying through the sky to the w0ck's spiral galaxy by lesson 5. Eat your heart out Harry Potter!
Angela, aye, maybe increments, whichever one scorrie did.
I don't smoke btw, neither fagarettes nor dopeurana. Why would I put such trash into my precious body?
cullbucket
06-Jun-07, 07:24
Although I'm anti-drugs myself I agree with Johno that that's a crackin' post Jeemag. If people were legally allowed to grow a limited number of plants for their own use in the confines of their own homes then I would consider that an acceptable policy shift. It's akin to making your own home brew or wine!
I believe that is the situation in ACT , Austraila, since I was there 15 yrs ago and I never heard much negative reports on the situation there... you are allowed to grow 2 plants for your own use.... plus alsaka had similar legislation until a few years ago.... live and let live....
Logical and well presented? Let's look at again. You presented a set of figures and assumed everyone would interpret them in the way you did. That is sloppy science scorrie, very, very sloppy.
You will never understand me scorrie, never in a million light years.
The set of figures is flawless. They represent the deaths caused by various substances. All that we can conclude from the figures is that many more people die because of tobacco and alcohol than from all other substances combined. For the purpose of my post, this was all that was needed to be taken from the figures. It is up to other people to try to second guess what I might have been trying to say in addition, if anything at all.
As it happens, I am a firm believer in dealing with the basics before trying to delve deeper into a scenario. I feel it is wrong to concentrate on a smaller problem, at the expense of losing sight of the socially acceptable, legal poisons that are a bigger menace to society in multiple ways.
As to understanding you, I have little desire to wander through the Fairy Foothills searching for Unicorns or to sit trying to contact ET and Elvis via Tiscali. I will leave you to your "Science" and trust that it will not be turning up on the Curriculum at Wick High any time soon.
I'll stick to the boring old science and thank Isaac Newton for helping us stop falling off our spinning planet by inventing gravity ;o)
Perhaps you can travel back in your time machine and rewrite a better science that would allow us all to see the amazing things that only the "gifted" few are capable of viewing.
The set of figures is flawless. They represent the deaths caused by various substances. All that we can conclude from the figures is that many more people die because of tobacco and alcohol than from all other substances combined. For the purpose of my post, this was all that was needed to be taken from the figures. It is up to other people to try to second guess what I might have been trying to say in addition, if anything at all.
As it happens, I am a firm believer in dealing with the basics before trying to delve deeper into a scenario. I feel it is wrong to concentrate on a smaller problem, at the expense of losing sight of the socially acceptable, legal poisons that are a bigger menace to society in multiple ways.
As to understanding you, I have little desire to wander through the Fairy Foothills searching for Unicorns or to sit trying to contact ET and Elvis via Tiscali. I will leave you to your "Science" and trust that it will not be turning up on the Curriculum at Wick High any time soon.
I'll stick to the boring old science and thank Isaac Newton for helping us stop falling off our spinning planet by inventing gravity ;o)
Perhaps you can travel back in your time machine and rewrite a better science that would allow us all to see the amazing things that only the "gifted" few are capable of viewing.
isaac newton did not discover gravity[it was always there]
and gravity is a myth, [the earth sucks[ heh heh heh
As to understanding you, I have little desire to wander through the Fairy Foothills searching for Unicorns or to sit trying to contact ET and Elvis via Tiscali. I will leave you to your "Science" and trust that it will not be turning up on the Curriculum at Wick High any time soon.
I'll stick to the boring old science and thank Isaac Newton for helping us stop falling off our spinning planet by inventing gravity ;o)
Perhaps you can travel back in your time machine and rewrite a better science that would allow us all to see the amazing things that only the "gifted" few are capable of viewing.There you go. I was right. There are things you don't understand, there are things you don't know you don't understand, and there are things that you'll never know you don't understand. I am one of them sweetie pie.
isaac newton did not discover gravity[it was always there]
and gravity is a myth, [the earth sucks[ heh heh hehIgnore him johno. He is being deliberately centrifrugal to try and convince us that his intellect is superior to ours.
My brain and body are untainted by drugs, I don't do alkyhool either.
My brain and body are untainted by drugs, I don't do alkyhool either.
Alcohol is a drug crayola, whisky is just heroin with a good press agent.
Amusing video clip called "Spiders On Drugs":
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sHzdsFiBbFc
isaac newton did not discover gravity[it was always there]
and gravity is a myth, [the earth sucks[ heh heh heh
I never said Newton discovered gravity. I said he invented it, a quite different claim (and one which is absurd) hence the ;o) winking smile which followed.
Crayola is on a different scientific level, one that seems to work on the Donald Rumsfeld known knowns, unknown knowns, known unknowns and unknown unknows school of gobbledy gook. If you are looking to connect with Chewthe tabbaca and Seethroughpeeoh, or have a chat with Buddy Holly, then the Crayola Sillybus is definitely the one to study ;o)
Jeemag_USA
07-Jun-07, 17:26
I never said Newton discovered gravity. I said he invented it, a quite different claim (and one which is absurd) hence the ;o) winking smile which followed.
Crayola is on a different scientific level, one that seems to work on the Donald Rumsfeld known knowns, unknown knowns, known unknowns and unknown unknows school of gobbledy gook. If you are looking to connect with Chewthe tabbaca and Seethroughpeeoh, or have a chat with Buddy Holly, then the Crayola Sillybus is definitely the one to study ;o)
I wouldn't bother with them Scorrie, they are both daft. Actually I think you were right the first time, newton couldn't invent something that already existed, discovery is a better word, even though it had been around forever nobody knew how to explain it, so Isaac Newtons explanation of Gravity can be classed as a discovery not an invention. Its Johno who is being silly.
[quote=Jeemag_USA;231135]I wouldn't bother with them Scorrie, they are both daft. Actually I think you were right the first time, newton couldn't invent something that already existed, discovery is a better word, even though it had been around forever nobody knew how to explain it, so Isaac Newtons explanation of Gravity can be classed as a discovery not an invention. Its Johno who is being silly.[/quote
get a life man , it was meant only as a joke. [lol] some one has to try and defuse the situation that was coming on. and i can be silly now & then cant i.
Tea and coffee are also "drugs".
Jeemag_USA
07-Jun-07, 19:43
get a life man , it was meant only as a joke. [lol] some one has to try and defuse the situation that was coming on. and i can be silly now & then cant i.
Wasn't being altogether serious, just clarifying for Scorrie, he was obviously right the first time. He is getting a hard time when he put in some valuable input to the discussion, even if for some it wasn't presented to their liking thats all I'm sayin, the presentation is not whats important, its what you can deduce from what he posted yourself. I have a life and very happy with it too, apologies if I offended you, but you said yourself what you said was not serious and also not correct so it must have been daft :Razz
What on earth are you talking about? There is no faux pas on my part, merely speculation by others about what they think a set of figures is trying to say. I stand 100% behind my comments, they are logical and well presented. I make an effort to add something to a thread. Unlike yourself, who seems only capable of making cheap swipes. I have yet to read anything of yours that I would rate as insightful or original in nature.
The feather of the Scorrie will always form a sharper quill than a soggy, old, blunt Crayola.
Wax lyrical ;o)
It's good how you mention crayola because soap bar (resin), by the time it reaches the numptys is mostly crayon, candlewax and cardboard. Like every other drug, the dealers are out to maximise the profit by cutting it with bulking agents.
There may be an opinion over whether or not smoking cannabis causes psychosis but surely a lung full of wax residue fair helps.
Heroin and speed mostly contain flour, sugar and for that special kick, ajax yum yum. Nothin like a vein collapsing at the thought.
I've never seen a cigarette smoker beat the hell out of a pensioner for money to score a pack of fags.
I've never seen an alcoholic knife the daughter of another alcoholic because they didn't turn up on time with money for another drink.
As for the boy from Wick in the original thread. He should have saved some of the profit you get from dealing eccies and bought his own house.
Even if the boy does his best to reform, it's only a matter of time til the other druggies drag him back in. Got to maximise the profits.
Now that's business..............
Heroin and speed mostly contain flour, sugar and for that special kick, ajax yum yum.
I've never seen a cigarette smoker beat the hell out of a pensioner for money to score a pack of fags.
I've never seen an alcoholic knife the daughter of another alcoholic because they didn't turn up on time with money for another drink.
You make a good point about the other "powders" that go into a "baggie". Every now and then the "good stuff" comes in and someone overdoses because they are getting way more "active ingredients" than the normal. I recall a documentary a good few years ago about "addicts" in Harlem. There was so little actual opiate content in what they were taking, that it was impossible to be addicted to the drug. What people were actually addicted to was the way of life, with all the hustling, wheeling and dealing that went to make up their day and their pursuit of the "score"
I would agree with you that smokers do not resort to assault and robbery to feed their habit. Perhaps if one cigarette cost £50 then it might be different, we can only speculate on that. However, I would also say that I have yet to see someone lay into an owld wifie for the sake of a pull on a joint of weed.
Alcohol is a different and more wicked beastie, many heinous crimes have been committed under the influence of firewater. The "water of life" has been the water of death for many and I wonder how many housewives in the UK have had "Panda eyes" as a result of the Old Man having had a bad tinnie or two of the "Commotion Lotion" the previous night?
I have seen several lives crumble and end early through the loss of the battle with the bottle. As a guy once said, "The man does not drink from the bottle, the bottle drinks from the man"
The life of the alcoholic, for all that his choice of poison is legal, is every bit as sad and seedy as that of the drug addict.
[quote=Jeemag_USA;231135]I wouldn't bother with them Scorrie, they are both daft. Actually I think you were right the first time, newton couldn't invent something that already existed, discovery is a better word, even though it had been around forever nobody knew how to explain it, so Isaac Newtons explanation of Gravity can be classed as a discovery not an invention. Its Johno who is being silly.[/quote
get a life man , it was meant only as a joke. [lol] some one has to try and defuse the situation that was coming on. and i can be silly now & then cant i.
It's OK johno, I knew you were not being serious. I just thought that you had missed the fact that I was poking fun at myself with the reference to Newton.
Thanks to Jeemag for saying that I was getting a hard time, I was of the opinion that Crayola was punching below the belt without reason but I can look after myself in the counter-punching stakes ;o)
Anyways, keep calm lads, there is no "situation" coming on, it's all handbags at 11am in the playground as far as I am concerned. All good fun.
By the way, my body is a Temple, sadly there are about six monks worth too many hanging at my belly ;o)
Jeemag_USA
07-Jun-07, 21:38
It's good how you mention crayola because soap bar (resin), by the time it reaches the numptys is mostly crayon, candlewax and cardboard. Like every other drug, the dealers are out to maximise the profit by cutting it with bulking agents.
There may be an opinion over whether or not smoking cannabis causes psychosis but surely a lung full of wax residue fair helps.
Heroin and speed mostly contain flour, sugar and for that special kick, ajax yum yum. Nothin like a vein collapsing at the thought.
I've never seen a cigarette smoker beat the hell out of a pensioner for money to score a pack of fags.
I've never seen an alcoholic knife the daughter of another alcoholic because they didn't turn up on time with money for another drink.
As for the boy from Wick in the original thread. He should have saved some of the profit you get from dealing eccies and bought his own house.
Even if the boy does his best to reform, it's only a matter of time til the other druggies drag him back in. Got to maximise the profits.
Now that's business..............
Some good points, except for that of alcohol, I would hate to try and start counting how many times a life has been taken by someone who is drunk, wether by accident or by murder, alcohol is the source of many violent crimes all over this world, and people also beg, borrow and steal to have money to buy alcohol, living in a city I see it every day, people asking for a dollar for food but they save them up for a bottle. For anyone who has lived with or grew up with an Alcoholic, you'll know the drunken stupors and mind boggling nastiness that can come out of an alcoholic can be compared to a junkie.
whisky is just heroin with a good press agent.But 'twould be the reverse in the labour ward; a woman in labour is the best press agent heroin could ever have, and there are many of us to certify this.
Crayola is on a different scientific level ... definitely the one to studyI underestimated you my dear Scorrie. Thank you. :D
Logical and well presented? That is scorrie, very, very logical. Your post contained no arguments, never in a million light years. Eat your heart out Harry Potter!
Now, THAT is how you edit a post to change the gist of it!! ;o)
Yoda the flump
08-Jun-07, 19:50
Anybody who thinks that cannabis is not that harmful should maybe read this.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/6732005.stm
Anybody who thinks that cannabis is not that harmful should maybe read this.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/6732005.stm
If you look on the front page you will see that three people have been killed and two injured at the Manx TT races but they won't ban the races, because they bring a great deal of pleasure to a great number of people. People who go to the races know the risks and think it's worth it, there will be just as many people there next year.
They had a lot of problems with alcohol during the prohibition years in America too. Being illegal it couldn't be regulated, near pure alcohol and drinks contaminated with methanol were sold. People died, people went blind, people developed mental illnesses. Things improved considerably when it was made legal again.
Jeemag_USA
08-Jun-07, 20:32
Anybody who thinks that cannabis is not that harmful should maybe read this.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/6732005.stm
Blatant propoganda, governments have been trying for years to drum up evidence and support for keeping cannabis illegal and its pitiful in my mind. You only have to read through the whole of that link to see it starts by talking about the labour party and ends in favor of the Conservatives, like i said propaganda, electioneering. Even if these figures are true does not mean the diagnosis is or what they are apportioning the blame for the mental illness. You are talking about 946 people from millions, there are millions of people smoking pot in the UK (that figure relates to 0.047% of the smoking population which is bound to be well over 2 million, but thats the percentage of 2 million). You could spend years looking for enough links or data to try and make Cannabis look like some kind of bad drug compared to others and it will always be a waste of time. I don't know why people feel its like a crusade to make it sound really really bad. All drugs have side effects, including caffiene and you can do study's on that too to prove they affect your mentality. This does not clear up the point why less harmful drugs are illegal and cigarettes and alcohol are legal.
There are people being submitted for mental illness in hospitals every year from prescription drugs that they got from their doctor, tranquelisers, uppers, downers, depression drugs.
What exactly is your point Yoda, without meaning to be offensive which I certainly am not trying to be, but what is that you want people to believe about Cannabis, that its as evil as every other drug.
Blatant propoganda, governments have been trying for years to drum up evidence and support for keeping cannabis illegal and its pitiful in my mind.
Yes, you can always smell the "rat" of a non-story, when you see a percentage increase being used to make it sound impressive. A simple glance will tell you that the TRUE percentage we should be looking at, is the percentage of problems in relation to the number of users. This is a figure I was attacked for NOT quoting in an earlier post and it adds more support to my decision to quote the pure figures on numbers of deaths rather than a potentially meaningless figure.
If you read the report further, you will see that this magical 85% figure is based on admissions, rather than the number of individuals, and they take no account of the fact that one person may have been admitted several times. The actual, already miniscule, percentage is therefore almost certainly lower. The BBC should be ashamed of themselves for this "Janet and John" level of reporting, trying to pull the wool over the eyes of the sheep with the notion that if there were one case last year and two this year, then there is an alarming 100% rise of the problem!! Shockarooni, disgusting, hang the dealers, pass the drammies and faggies before I have a Connery!!
Yoda the flump
08-Jun-07, 21:30
What exactly is your point Yoda, without meaning to be offensive which I certainly am not trying to be, but what is that you want people to believe about Cannabis, that its as evil as every other drug.
My main point is that cannabis is a dangerous drug that should of least remain a Class C drug and probably be a Class B drug.
To claim that it is potentially less dangerous and causes potentially less health problems than tobacco is not an argument for legalising it.
Tobacco is legal, and has been for centuries, cannabis is not. Would I take the same stance against tobacco if it was illegal - YES. Unfortunately the government makes an awful lot of money from smokers - but would they save more if smoking was banned?
I cannot see how drawing smoke into your lungs can have any beneficial health effects, let alone the other chemicals - can you?
Jeemag_USA
08-Jun-07, 21:47
My main point is that cannabis is a dangerous drug that should of least remain a Class C drug and probably be a Class B drug.
To claim that it is potentially less dangerous and causes potentially less health problems than tobacco is not an arguement for leagalising it.
Tobacco is legal, and has been for centuries, cannabis is not. Would I take the same stance against tobacco if it was illegal - YES. Unfortunately the government makes an awful lot of money from smokers - but would they save more if smoking was banned?
I cannot see how drawing smoke into your lungs can have any beneficial health effects, let alone the other chemicals - can you?
No not with smoking tobacco no, as most know its nicotine that causes the addiction, but tar that kills your lungs, now granted Cannabis does contain oils, but lungs are somewhat self cleansing and I have not seen any reports that long term smoking of Marijuana on its own can cause lung cancer or other lung deficiency.
Its not an argument to say what is the point of drawing smoke into your lungs, easy to say that if you don't enjoy, but the simple answer to your question is because people enjoy it. Some things are not explainable to some people. Why do people sit in the sun to burn their skin when its not good for them. Why drink coffee? Why watch horror movies if they scare you. If people enjoy to inhale marijuana and it can not be proven to be as harmful as other already legal drugs then they should be allowed to.
You can apply that type of argument to anything, why do this why do that, you can apply that to gay marriage, drugs, tattooing or even self mutilation, if one person enjoys that then why shoudl someone who doesn't be able to question them on why they would want to do it, its obviously because they want to.
There is no logical reason why people who like to smoke cannabis or marijuana, should not be allowed to legally as long as they follow the same guidelines like preferably not operate machinery or drive if you can help it and also set an age limit. I know for one when I was regularly smoking and was working in factories, I never once went to work under the influence and very very rarely drove a vehicle either if I was using cannabis. In over twenty years I have never once seen anything that would ever explain to me why its illegal and I know I never will, because there is no reason to keep it illegal. It should be legal and if you don't want to use it then don't, nothing more simple than that.
Yoda the flump
08-Jun-07, 22:16
Its not an argument to say what is the point of drawing smoke into your lungs, easy to say that if you don't enjoy, but the simple answer to your question is because people enjoy it. Some things are not explainable to some people. Why do people sit in the sun to burn their skin when its not good for them. Why drink coffee? Why watch horror movies if they scare you. If people enjoy to inhale marijuana and it can not be proven to be as harmful as other already legal drugs then they should be allowed to.
You somewhat miss the point about the smoke - smoke being a fine particulate is not a healthy thing to have in your lungs - any miner will tell you about fine particulates and lungs.
Again, to say that because cannabis is potentially less harmful than smoking tobacco so it should therefore be legalised is not an argument. Tobacco smoking is known to cause serious ill health and premature death, no argument there, but can anybody say that cannabis use does not lead to this?
Are we wanting to get into a situation like we are in with tobacco? Where we have a situation where people are allowed to smoke but the reality is it should be banned.
I won't even start on the higher amounts of polycyclic aromatic hydrocarbons (carcinogens) in cannabis smoke and start to dispute the fact that cannabis smoke does contain less tar than tobacco smoke.
Now, THAT is how you edit a post to change the gist of it!! ;o)No. I did it better than you. I lopped out the middle, period. You cut and you cut and you cut and you didn't put in the dots ... and more dots ... and even more dots ....
Apart from that you cut the rug right.
Ok, let us dispense with this jolly sparring, it is fun for us but the masses are expecting more from us in the way of enlightenment.
Jeemag, I know little of your precious weed but I have a good nose and I am coming with the feeling that thou art protesting a tad too far. I have seen tonight's BBC 10 o'clock news and it was indeed an embarrassingly pathetic effort but my inner feelings tell me that you are attempting to justify your past smoking to yourself and not to us. That is ok as long as you recognise it.
Scorrie, I feel that you are going the other way. You are trying to convince us that the percentage game you played was correct whereas you know it was not. Do not fear your mistakes, you said yourself that you were in a hurry and so implied that you would have done better had you had more time.
Yodate, it's "argument" not "arguement". Where is Tristan when we need spelling lessons?
Yoda the flump
09-Jun-07, 00:12
Yodate, it's "argument" not "arguement". Where is Tristan when we need spelling lessons?
You'll see a master class in editing now!;)
You'll see a master class in editing now!;)I shall refrain from quoting your original post until after the revisionist deed is done.
Again, to say that because cannabis is potentially less harmful than smoking tobacco so it should therefore be legalised is not an argument. Tobacco smoking is known to cause serious ill health and premature death, no argument there, but can anybody say that cannabis use does not lead to this?No, not I.
This old chestnut again.
Anyway.
I've said this a zillion times, and I'll say it again: Alcohol is THE drug we should be more worried about. Day in, day out, I venture round the clubs, pubs, venues and streets of our cities, and if there's one thing so clear (so clearly evident that people can't seem to see the woods for the trees), it's that Drink - in all it forms and guises - is the drug that causes the majority of deaths, illness, violence, disturbance and disruption within this nation of ours. Anyone who disagrees obviously doesn't get out much.
True. but don't you think that is because it's legal? And therefore can be openly indulged in by those who would not break the law?
I see the arguement, but making drugs legal would only make the problem worse
I shall have to be quick here, I posted a long and involved!reply yesterday to scorrie, as was his due to my earlier post. when it was submitted, I was out of time!You are not logged in....Infurating.. Not being one of your most fluent on the posting scale,but I did try scorrie, (how did you manage to bag that cracking name?:)
(how did you manage to bag that cracking name?:)
That was my father's nickname when he was a loon in Louisburgh Street.:)
That was my father's nickname when he was a loon in Louisburgh Street.:)
how did he get it & where in louisburgh st did he live . and where did he work.
to much info to put on . pm me. [very interested].
Jeemag_USA
09-Jun-07, 17:27
True. but don't you think that is because it's legal? And therefore can be openly indulged in by those who would not break the law?
I see the argument, but making drugs legal would only make the problem worse
Once again all drugs are lumped together. People can't seem to differentiate between one and the other. Yes making Heroin legal would be bad, making Ecstacy legal may be bad, but don't just make it sound like all drugs are the same, if Cannabis was legalised it would not lead to increase in violence, disturbing the peace and any other associated crime with alcohol, its really difficult to have any kind of debate with people about one particular drug if all drugs are just drugs? Doesn't make any sense. No offence to yourself Katrina, I am just commenting on a string of comments made throughout the whole thread which make it not worth discussing anymore?
Also one other point, of all the legal social drugs there are like Alcohol, Tobacco, Caffeine etc, how many of them are known to be a treatment for known medical conditions? Yes I know you could probably use alcohol as an anaesthetic if you drink enough. But if Cannabis shoudl be labelled as harmful as anything else, then why is used to treat medical conditions.
At the end of the day, people who don't know why they want it to remain illegal will just keep slamming it because it seems the thing to do. Sad fact of life.
I shall have to be quick here, I posted a long and involved!reply yesterday to scorrie, as was his due to my earlier post. when it was submitted, I was out of time!You are not logged in....Infurating.. Not being one of your most fluent on the posting scale,but I did try scorrie, (how did you manage to bag that cracking name?:)
I will sell you my username, if the price is right ;o)
Yoda the flump
09-Jun-07, 17:57
Also one other point, of all the legal social drugs there are like Alcohol, Tobacco, Caffeine etc, how many of them are known to be a treatment for known medical conditions? Yes I know you could probably use alcohol as an anaesthetic if you drink enough. But if Cannabis shoudl be labelled as harmful as anything else, then why is used to treat medical conditions.
Contradiction there? Earlier on in the post you mentioned heroin, now opiates are used for medicinal purposes but you don't support heroin being legalised.
At the end of the day, people who don't know why they want it to remain illegal will just keep slamming it because it seems the thing to do. Sad fact of life.
Because it is harmful as I have pointed out. Whilst you can argue the toss about the relative harmfulness of tobacco and cannabis both have many of the same problems and just because one is legal does not provide an argument for the other to be legal.
True. but don't you think that is because it's legal? And therefore can be openly indulged in by those who would not break the law?
I see the arguement, but making drugs legal would only make the problem worse
People would not stop drinking if it became illegal. Equally, making drugs legal would not lead to everyone starting to take them. If someone wants to make a "score" in Wick this evening, it is as easy as booking a taxi. Those who want to take drugs tonight will not be giving it a moment's thought that it is illegal, you could even argue that the illegality adds to the thrill. I wonder if drinking would seem so glamourous were it not for the fanciful ways in which it is presented? Imagine a punter going up to the bar and asking for "25ml of Ethanol please chief"
how did he get it & where in louisburgh st did he live . and where did he work.
to much info to put on . pm me. [very interested].
He left Wick in 1927. My Grandfather, Old Chobbers, was a partner in Hood and Sutherland, Gravestone sculpters and they opened the Thurso branch in 1927. I'm not sure of the number in Louisburgh.
Apparently, although bald when I knew him, my father had very curly hair and the kids used to shout 'Curly curly curly' whioch was considered to be the sound that a scorrie would make. Thus the name. He was a rigger in the whaling business, the Royal Navy and he ended his days at Dounreay.
On the subject of drugs, everything should be legalised and taken out of the hands of criminals and into the hands of a government agency whose purpose would be the reduction of demand, not the increase as is required by the pushers. Education and control might work. Everything else that has been tried has failed miserably and the problem of class A drug use is increasing at an alarming rate.
percy toboggan
09-Jun-07, 18:27
On the subject of drugs, everything should be legalised and taken out of the hands of criminals and into the hands of a government agency whose purpose would be the reduction of demand, not the increase as is required by the pushers. Education and control might work. Everything else that has been tried has failed miserably and the problem of class A drug use is increasing at an alarming rate.
You may well be correct. It's worth a try. The politicians just haven't got a clue what to do.
He left Wick in 1927. My Grandfather, Old Chobbers, was a partner in Hood and Sutherland, Gravestone sculpters and they opened the Thurso branch in 1927. I'm not sure of the number in Louisburgh.
Apparently, although bald when I knew him, my father had very curly hair and the kids used to shout 'Curly curly curly' whioch was considered to be the sound that a scorrie would make. Thus the name. He was a rigger in the whaling business, the Royal Navy and he ended his days at Dounreay.
On the subject of drugs, everything should be legalised and taken out of the hands of criminals and into the hands of a government agency whose purpose would be the reduction of demand, not the increase as is required by the pushers. Education and control might work. Everything else that has been tried has failed miserably and the problem of class A drug use is increasing at an alarming rate.
bit before
sorry, bit before my time, even before my parents time
this page has gone on abit, 13 pages and everyones still arguing!![lol]
[
this page has gone on abit, 13 pages and everyones still arguing!![lol]
And, as the powers that be continue to argue, some-one elses children have become heroin addicts.
[quote=scorrie;231676]I will sell you my username, if the price is right ;o)[/
q u
Sorry scorrie,its personilised number plates, I don't have that sort of money.:)
Billy Boy
09-Jun-07, 21:24
this page has gone on abit, 13 pages and everyones still arguing!![lol]
omg and it's how many pages since you told us you hate drugs :Razz
he's not sorry for wot he has done, just sorry he got caught!
he's not sorry for wot he has done, just sorry he got caught!
cant help but agree there. like most criminals though , they are only sorry for themselves getting caught, not for their victims.
and im talking about criminals in general not just the drug dealer,s & pushers.
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