nanny state and alcohol

[NickInTheNorth]

Two interesting bits of government interference in our lives regarding alcohol in the past couple of days.

Firstly last friday (I think it was friday) the government announced that pregnant women - or women trying to conceive - were now advised to totally abstain from alcohol. Now this advice was not based on any change in the medical/scientific advice regarding alcohol in pregnancy. (Which remains that 1or 2 units of alcohol once or twice a week will do no harm.) No this new guidance was issued on the basis that women are confused as to what a unit of alcohol actually is.

Then yesterday the self same government announce that alcoholic drink in cans and bottles are now going to have very clear labelling on them to indicate how many units of alcohol they contain. The reasoning behind this move is so that we can more easily understand how much alcohol we are drinking. I suspect that the only outcome of this particularly ill thought out bit of interference will be that the neds and winos will simply read the labels to make sure they are buying the most units for the least money. Responsible drinkers will continue to drink responsibly. (No doubt further down the line in order to curb public drunkenness there will be a limit on the number of units that can be purchased!)

Now given the reasoning behind the first decision why did the government not simply re-emphasise the advice regarding alcohol and pregnancy, and then when the new labelling starts it would have been easy for the poor brain dead women the advice must be aimed at to know what a unit of alcohol actually is?

Or might they have another agenda?

[stratman]

Nicely observed Nick.

[George Brims]

Well I think at least one of these changes is a good idea. Doctors in other countries have been telling pregnant women to abstain for years, particularly in the first trimester of pregnancy.

[NickInTheNorth]

Just two quotes lifted from BBC news website


The Royal College of Obstetricians and Gynaecologists says there is no evidence that a couple of units once or twice a week will do any harm to the baby.


Women who are already pregnant and who have followed the earlier advice "will not have put themselves or their baby at risk", the Department (of Health) reassured.

[mccaugm]

Well I think at least one of these changes is a good idea. Doctors in other countries have been telling pregnant women to abstain for years, particularly in the first trimester of pregnancy.

Totally agree....I watched "This Morning" a good while back, they showed an average baby (doll) and a baby (doll) that was exposed to alcohol throughout the pregnancy. The baby was mis-shapen, head was very strange.

Over the course of 3 pregnancies I drank 3 glasses of wine in total...and only in the last few weeks of my pregnancy. I avoided smoky atmospheres and am glad to say all my children were thumpers and very healthy. I still feel guilty about the couple of glasses I had.

[orkneylass]

You have to listen carefully to what is being said. Doctors are concerned that there may be no safe level in pregnancy even though they do not at present have the data to prove this. They are therefore advising pregnant women that the safest choice is not to drink at all - but it is a choice. However, apart from alcoholics who certainly will produce babies badly damaged by fetal alcohol syndrome, why does anyone NEED to drink alcohol at any time, including when they are pregnant? It is a choice.

As for labelling the units in drinks - what is the problem? For people wanting to make responsible choices and compare different options, it will be helpful. Those who have no wish to check the alcohol content are not obliged to do so, and the so-called nanny state is not forcing anyone into anything. However, if anyone feels that we do not have major cultural and social problems caused by alcohol in the UK, problems not shared by many comparable western countries, then i suppose you can claim that no efforts at all should be made to encourage more responsible drinking.

In my view most people who shout "nanny state" about information and advice dislike being reminded about their own foolish behaviour and poor personal choices.

[marylund2323]

ok my mother drank and smoked heavily throughout her pregnancy which has caused me no damage of any sort. of course im not sayin its a good thing but maybe it doesnt have as big of an impact as people think

[orkneylass]

ok my mother drank and smoked heavily throughout her pregnancy which has caused me no damage of any sort. of course im not sayin its a good thing but maybe it doesnt have as big of an impact as people think

Do you understand the difference between individual cases and statistics? Are you saying that because you are OK, heavy smoking and drinking in pregnancy is always safe? Is it still a small impact if you are a child with fetal alcohol syndrome or don't survive the first month because of low birthweight and associated complications?

[Fluff]

Now i have never been pregnant/had children so i could be wrong but i was always under the impression what you eat/drink the baby gets a bit of it. hence why women should eat healthily during their pregnancy etc..
as someone who dosnt drink much/nothing anyway, i find it hard to understand why someone cant go without a drink for 9 months or longer if they are breastfeeding?

[Angela]

Now i have never been pregnant/had children so i could be wrong but i was always under the impression what you eat/drink the baby gets a bit of it. hence why women should eat healthily during their pregnancy etc..
as someone who dosnt drink much/nothing anyway, i find it hard to understand why someone cant go without a drink for 9 months or longer if they are breastfeeding?

Because alcohol is processed by the liver, I believe very little actually reaches the baby though the placenta. My understanding is that for foetal alcohol syndrome to occur the mother would have to be consuming very substantial amounts of alcohol on a more or less daily basis.

I think there could be more concern about drinking alcohol when breastfeeding, although back in those far off-days when my kids were babies we were actively encouraged to drink a bottle of guinness a day! In fact it was provided to you in hospital if you were breastfeeding! :eek:

I was a very occasional drinker anyway, but in the first 20 odd weeks of all my pregnancies, I couldn't stomach the smell or taste of anything alcoholic. (Or coffee for that matter.) However, I would have the odd drink towards the end, if we were having a meal with friends, and again -how times change! - I was advised by my doctor that the benefit of an occasional drink outweighed any potential harm...and he gave his wife the same advice!

If I had been told there was significant evidence that I should never have an alcoholic drink when pregnant, I would have followed that advice. I certainly never swallowed so much as a painkiller in case it would do any harm!

My feeling is that the majority of women do behave very sensibly and responsibly when pregnant, but health professionals can be very patronising to them at times. This "new" advice is not, as far as I can see, based on any more recent research than existed previously, and will probably make no difference at all to those who are heavy drinkers and do put their babies (and themselves) at risk.

Alcohol causes huge problems in our society, and kills people. It will take a lot more than labelling bottles to change the habits of folk who (pregnant or otherwise) drink more than should -they are the very people who tend to deny that they have any problem with alcohol. :(

[marylund2323]

Do you understand the difference between individual cases and statistics? Are you saying that because you are OK, heavy smoking and drinking in pregnancy is always safe? Is it still a small impact if you are a child with fetal alcohol syndrome or don't survive the first month because of low birthweight and associated complications?

maybe you should read what i said again.
"of course im not sayin its a good thing but maybe it doesnt have as big of an impact as people think".

i never said it is always safe....i never said it was "safe" for an circumstances but exactly as i DID say, maybe it doesnt have quite the huge impact as people think. i am not for example telling people to go out and get wasted while pregnant but i dont think one or two will do any harm. next time please read what you are commenting on before mouthing off

[NickInTheNorth]

The department of health still admit that the new guidance is NOT based any new evidence. They also admit that drinking 1 or 2 units once or twice a week will not cause harm to the unborn child.

They are simply saying (and I paraphrase them) that women are too stupid to know how much they drink!

Now I for one do not believe that to be the case.

Anyone who is prepared to drink heavily whilst pregnant is unlikely to take on board this new guidance, any more than they were likely to listen to the old guidance. Anyone who has listened to the old advice, and taken a glass of wine with a meal etc, is now likely to question if they have harmed there child by doing so. I simply fail to see any reason why the government need to change the advice they are giving.

And if they do need to change the advice why not come out and say sorry, we were wrong, the old advice was bad advice, which they have certainly not done.

[cuddlepop]

The ones that want to drink will do so anyway regardless of what the government or anyone else has to say:(