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johno
23-May-07, 13:52
Here we are again at the time of year of the caravan convoys.I personally hate the damn things. Was coming up the road from Inverness at the weekend & caught up behind three of them tailgating each other and rubber necking the sights between Golspie and Berridale at 40mph, No chance of overtaking as they were about a car distance apart. Nor had either of them any inclination of pulling in or distancing themselves a bit better to allow overtaking.Obviously they were a group that set of from home together and were nt going to get split up by anyone or anything, If they want to drag their homes about with them i think that they should pay more road tax than than the normal car driver, say double after all they use double the road, Hauliers have to pay more for their trailers so lets be fair to them and help spread the costs ,might even be a way to lower the tax for the rest of us, help compensate for the inconveniance & frustration caused. ps. as far as this particular group are concerned i think they could have shown a little common sense and a little more consideration towards other road users [evil]

theone
23-May-07, 14:09
Well said. I hate them.

Double road tax sounds good to me.

moncur
23-May-07, 14:13
can we not just ban them?

We could hold a caravan amnesty at the scrappys and dish out free tents to those turning up who do wish to go camping!

MadPict
23-May-07, 14:30
Caravaners should be like the snails they so love to emulate - they should only be allowed to come out at night time.

cuddlepop
23-May-07, 15:08
There's nothing wrong with caravans its just a number of them have very inconsiderate drivers that fail to pull over and let you pass.

We alwas do.:D

changilass
23-May-07, 15:14
When we had the caravan we would always pull in to let folks past.

To my mind the holiday starts as soon as you last shift at work finishes, as such I tend not to be in a mad rush to get to my destination.

Its a shame that all caravaners are tarred with the same brush as the few ignorant ones on the go.

Penelope Pitstop
23-May-07, 15:41
I don't think it's fair to say all caravan drivers are guilty of this. (I don't have one.)

Was driving up the A9 from Perth to Inverness on Sunday night and a Ford Ka was holding up a convoy of cars including lorries!! [evil] (Driver was travelling at 50 - 52mph)

noodle
23-May-07, 15:56
I don't think it's fair to say all caravan drivers are guilty of this. (I don't have one.)

Was driving up the A9 from Perth to Inverness on Sunday night and a Ford Ka was holding up a convoy of cars including lorries!! [evil] (Driver was travelling at 50 - 52mph)

Aye and I frequently get stuck behind people in (in cars) in Caithness who seem to think the national speed limit is somewhere between 40 and 50mph (either that or I get overtaken by the ones who think it's 80, but that's a whole other thread!)

There's loads of signs on the A9 south of Inverness which urge drivers to pull over/allow overtaking.. maybe we need more this side of the city?

jaykay
23-May-07, 15:56
It seems a bit harsh to ban them off the road. However, I beleive that if they had the proper training they would cause a lot less hassle to other road users. In Holland for instance, people wishing to tow a trailer or caravan have to sit a driving test to prove they can do it and are issued with the correct driving licence when they pass the test. I think that rule should be introduced in this country because a lot of people who tow caravans obviously don't have a clue about towing. For instance, some of them are not capable of reversing their caravan even for a short distance.

changilass
23-May-07, 16:11
Great idea jaykay, that would create more jobs too so good allround:lol:

MadPict
23-May-07, 16:14
Aye and I frequently get stuck behind people in (in cars) in Caithness who seem to think the national speed limit is somewhere between 40 and 50mph ...

Next time have a look to see if it has a towbar - caravaners seem to have only one speed - towing speed, even when they are out and about without their box on wheels...[lol]

NickInTheNorth
23-May-07, 16:16
Aye and I frequently get stuck behind people in (in cars) in Caithness who seem to think the national speed limit is somewhere between 40 and 50mph (either that or I get overtaken by the ones who think it's 80, but that's a whole other thread!)

There's loads of signs on the A9 south of Inverness which urge drivers to pull over/allow overtaking.. maybe we need more this side of the city?

Any speed limit is just that, the maximum speed at which it is permitted to travel in a vehicle on a stretch of road. It is neither the recommended speed, nor an obligatory speed. Why is it such a problem for folk to travel a below the speed limit?

changilass
23-May-07, 16:19
Nick there is such a thing as curb crawling which is an offence in this country. Apart from that, 'sunday drivers' cause accidents and road rage.

What is wrong with common sense, if you want to sight see, pull over and stop, so as those folks who have somewhere to go can get there.

johno
23-May-07, 16:21
Well said. I hate them.

Double road tax sounds good to me.
even better Jeremy Clarkson had an idea that they could be blown up or dropped from a great hieght in a disused quarry. may be we could all have a day out to attend the spectacle, something like the romans used to do bc.
just a thought??

noodle
23-May-07, 16:22
Any speed limit is just that, the maximum speed at which it is permitted to travel in a vehicle on a stretch of road. It is neither the recommended speed, nor an obligatory speed. Why is it such a problem for folk to travel a below the speed limit?

Because you can fail your test for going below the speed limit if it is safe to travel at that speed - especially if you are holding up traffic.. IIRC it actually comes under "driving without due care and attention".

changilass
23-May-07, 16:25
Watch it Madpict, that theres fighting talk. We could have a serious fall out over this one.

First thing I got put on the car when we got it was a towbar, having said that I only have a trailer for clearing rubbish not a caravan at the moment.

NickInTheNorth
23-May-07, 16:35
Because you can fail your test for going below the speed limit if it is safe to travel at that speed - especially if you are holding up traffic.. IIRC it actually comes under "driving without due care and attention".

No, you cannot fail for failing to drive at the speed limit. You can fail for failing to keep up with the traffic, which is a different matter altogether.

Driving at 20 mph and not allowing folks to pass, very probably a case of Driving without due care and attention or without reasonable consideration for other road users. Driving at 40 to 50 in a 60 limit, very much doubt that any traffic officer would be interested in that one.

As to having to drive at the speed limit, try reading the highway code:

104: The speed limit is the absolute maximum and does not mean it is safe to drive at that speed irrespective of conditions. Driving at speeds too fast for the road and traffic conditions can be dangerous. You should always reduce your speed when

the road layout or condition presents hazards, such as bends
sharing the road with pedestrians and cyclists, particularly children, and motorcyclists
weather conditions make it safer to do so
driving at night as it is harder to see other road users.

MadPict
23-May-07, 16:36
Hehe Changi, meet you behind the shower block/shoppette/site office then!!!


For a fight that is....

DRM
23-May-07, 16:41
We go away every other week in our caravan and while coming up the road on Sun afternoon I caught up with traffic and as there was a que forming behind me I pulled in to let them past and promptly caught up all the cars etc that were behind me -only thing was they werent seeing the tour bus doing about 40mph stuck behind a white van that was struggling up the hills . It is just some caravaners that are more ignorant than anything else and then again so are a lot of other drivers who see a caravan coming and must pull out in front of it same as they do for Lorries and Buses and then trundle along at 40 mph .
I try to pull in to laybys when a queue forms behind or let them pass when it is safe to do so m more than can be said of some of the other forms of transport that use the road causing hold ups

moncur
23-May-07, 16:43
It seems a bit harsh to ban them off the road. However, I beleive that if they had the proper training they would cause a lot less hassle to other road users. In Holland for instance, people wishing to tow a trailer or caravan have to sit a driving test to prove they can do it and are issued with the correct driving licence when they pass the test. I think that rule should be introduced in this country because a lot of people who tow caravans obviously don't have a clue about towing. For instance, some of them are not capable of reversing their caravan even for a short distance.

I believe there is a requirement for new drivers wishing to tow a large trailer or caravan do such a test in the UK now. Correct me if im wrong, i do believe it only applies to those who have only passed their test after September 1999 (Could be the wrong year). I only passed my test in Sept 2006 so can only tow a trailer with a max laden weight of 1 tonne.

changilass
23-May-07, 16:44
Glad you edited that one Madpict, was getting seriously worried about you there :confused

golach
23-May-07, 16:44
It seems a bit harsh to ban them off the road. However, I beleive that if they had the proper training they would cause a lot less hassle to other road users. In Holland for instance, people wishing to tow a trailer or caravan have to sit a driving test to prove they can do it and are issued with the correct driving licence when they pass the test. I think that rule should be introduced in this country because a lot of people who tow caravans obviously don't have a clue about towing. For instance, some of them are not capable of reversing their caravan even for a short distance.
Hmmmph that can be said about any driver in the UK IMO, the A9 is littered with wrecks of many cars and motor bikes and very few caravans, If you want visitors to come and see the delights of Spittal Hill and Dounreay, then you have to accept caravans....have you seen wifie drivers trying their hands a 3 point turns [lol]

noodle
23-May-07, 16:48
Driving at 40 to 50 in a 60 limit, very much doubt that any traffic officer would be interested in that one.


But I know someone who did fail their test for doing that speed and that is one of the reasons why - as they were holding up traffic (which was what I was trying to say was the "failing reason" I don't think I was very clear about that in my original post!). Admittedly it wasn't in Caithness though ;)



As to having to drive at the speed limit, try reading the highway code:

104: The speed limit is the absolute maximum and does not mean it is safe to drive at that speed irrespective of conditions. Driving at speeds too fast for the road and traffic conditions can be dangerous. You should always reduce your speed when
the road layout or condition presents hazards, such as bends
sharing the road with pedestrians and cyclists, particularly children, and motorcyclists
weather conditions make it safer to do so
driving at night as it is harder to see other road users.But I never said that you should drive the speed limit when it's not safe to do so... in fact I said in my original message that it was safe to drive at the limit. I'm describing people who are driving on dry roads, with clear visibility, hardly any bends (for which they slow down for anyway), on out of town roads with no pedestrians and not a motorbike (or tractor!) in sight etc

These people also continue to drive at 40/50 when they get into towns and 30/20mph zones, but that, again is another issue.

I guess we'll have to agree to differ a little on this one Nick :)

NickInTheNorth
23-May-07, 17:17
spoilsport, I was looking forward to arguing a little more first :D

noodle
23-May-07, 17:57
spoilsport, I was looking forward to arguing a little more first :D

:lol: We'll have to ensure we argue another time!

(brain too full of assignment to cope with argument at the moment. ho hum it should be done by tomorrow!)

stratman
23-May-07, 18:08
Shouldn't we be welcoming tourist in their caravans. They may help the shops to stay open etc. that people on the .org are aways mythering about.

George Brims
23-May-07, 18:28
A few observations from someone who once took a holiday with a caravan (never again!).

First of all there ought to be a traffic law mandating pulling into a layby if you have a train of cars behind you. In some parts of the world they do have such laws, for trucks as well as caravans. The one time I did it it became something of a simple routine to pull into almost every layby - signalling well ahead of time too so that people knew there was no need to overtake. The only snag was the layby where a family had unpacked a folding table and picnic chairs and there wasn't room to get past their lunch party. Luckily I came in slow enough to get stopped!

On a long road trip from Oxfordshire to Edinburgh some years ago, we noticed dozens of caravans going the other way. I talked to one driver at a service station and he said it was some kind of Caravan Club rally. My colleague passed the next hour counting how many of the drivers had actually bothered to get the extended wing mirrors that allowed them to see behind them while towing. It was less than one in three - and those are the drivers in a club that you would think would educate its members on how to behave.

As for the issue of driving at the speed limit, in many US states there is a minimum speed limit - 15mph under whatever the maximum is - that of course only applies in clear weather, light traffic etc. It's all to avoid provoking the nitwit who will overtake a queue of traffic that builds up behind the slower one.

dunderheed
24-May-07, 08:16
to take this off on another tangent :-
cycle clubs- why oh why do they think that sticking up a wee sign saying racers on the road allows them to throw the highway code out the window and cycle in packs of two or three abreast .
the law is one abreast when there is traffic. then they complain when we drivers dont give them a cars width when passing them. last year it was even worse on a couple of occaisions when approaching single riders they would veer into the middle of the lane making it impossible to give them the required passing room. i got so angry with this that i actually stopped at their marshalling point to complain to their road steward , only to be met with a blank stare and a mumbled ii will talk to them

Penelope Pitstop
24-May-07, 09:40
to take this off on another tangent :-
cycle clubs- why oh why do they think that sticking up a wee sign saying racers on the road allows them to throw the highway code out the window and cycle in packs of two or three abreast .
the law is one abreast when there is traffic. then they complain when we drivers dont give them a cars width when passing them. last year it was even worse on a couple of occaisions when approaching single riders they would veer into the middle of the lane making it impossible to give them the required passing room. i got so angry with this that i actually stopped at their marshalling point to complain to their road steward , only to be met with a blank stare and a mumbled ii will talk to them

Was driving out Thurso on Tuesday night, came round the cemetry bend and there were 3 of them abreast .......[evil]

dragonfly
24-May-07, 10:53
Was driving out Thurso on Tuesday night, came round the cemetry bend and there were 3 of them abreast .......[evil]

Can't see how as they set off a minute apart?

anyway back to caravans we have one, but have it parked down in inverness so no need to tow!

Penelope Pitstop
24-May-07, 12:04
Can't see how as they set off a minute apart?

anyway back to caravans we have one, but have it parked down in inverness so no need to tow!

Well obviously they caught one another up. Three abreast.......bit silly.

johno
24-May-07, 13:28
Well obviously they caught one another up. Three abreast.......bit silly.
three abreast, a bit silly, plain bloody stupid, suicidal even??[evil]

henry20
24-May-07, 13:47
I had to tow a caravan once and pulled into passing places when I knew there were cars behind - sometimes it wasn't obvious if there were or not, so I pulled in just incase! Think I must have been the most considerate driver on the road that day - been stuck behind too many myself!!! :roll:

stratman
26-May-07, 22:18
Was driving out Thurso on Tuesday night, came round the cemetry bend and there were 3 of them abreast .......[evil]
Penelope - surely you would be driving sensibly enough to stop within your field of vision or else your driving skills would be called into question? Whacky racing standards don't apply in the real world ya' know!!

JimH
27-May-07, 21:17
Because you can fail your test for going below the speed limit if it is safe to travel at that speed - especially if you are holding up traffic.. IIRC it actually comes under "driving without due care and attention".
You will not fail a driving test for driving below the speed limit. You will fail your test for "not making normal progress". This also includes unnecessary delays at junctions etc.
The difference between the 50mph of a car towing a caravan, and the 60mph of a solo car is enough to pass in safety, providing conditions allow.

johno
18-Aug-07, 18:46
What are the feeling,s of most motorist,s toward caravan,s.
i myself feel that they should be banned of the roads completely. if this is not possible and i myself see no reason why not ,then let them be taxed accordingly. and law,s brought out that they have to pull over to allow safe overtaking. instead of plodding along at 35 or 40 mph And let these law,s be seen to be enforced . many times iv,e been stuck behind two & sometimes three of these catraptions tailgate,ing each other whilst rubbernecking the views. do they think that if they lose sight of each other they will forever be lost in some kind of bermuda triangle
ok so ,i suppose the carravanners dream is to take in the scenery but why cant they leave gaps where other drivers can safely pass. if they want to pull their home about on the roads then why should they not pay for the privilege [disgust]

dragonfly
18-Aug-07, 18:50
have you not discussed this topic short ago Johno?

here maybe??? (http://forum.caithness.org/showthread.php?t=26396&highlight=caravans)

angela5
18-Aug-07, 18:51
On a brighter note, you may be interested to know that 'no caravan may be equipped with a toilet which discharges its contents directly on to the road'. There is some justice in the world ![lol]

johno
18-Aug-07, 19:06
I don't think it's fair to say all caravan drivers are guilty of this. (I don't have one.)

Was driving up the A9 from Perth to Inverness on Sunday night and a Ford Ka was holding up a convoy of cars including lorries!! [evil] (Driver was travelling at 50 - 52mph)
aye , but you can pass a ka doing 50 -55 . try passing three caravans nose to tail at 35-45 . :eek:

Torvaig
18-Aug-07, 19:20
No, you cannot fail for failing to drive at the speed limit. You can fail for failing to keep up with the traffic, which is a different matter altogether.

Driving at 20 mph and not allowing folks to pass, very probably a case of Driving without due care and attention or without reasonable consideration for other road users. Driving at 40 to 50 in a 60 limit, very much doubt that any traffic officer would be interested in that one.

As to having to drive at the speed limit, try reading the highway code:

104: The speed limit is the absolute maximum and does not mean it is safe to drive at that speed irrespective of conditions. Driving at speeds too fast for the road and traffic conditions can be dangerous. You should always reduce your speed when

the road layout or condition presents hazards, such as bends
sharing the road with pedestrians and cyclists, particularly children, and motorcyclists
weather conditions make it safer to do so
driving at night as it is harder to see other road users.

If more people only drove at 50mph the road would be a safer place to be...
I vote we only make vehicles with a top speed of 50mph! What's the hurry....

angela5
18-Aug-07, 19:24
If more people only drove at 50mph the road would be a safer place to be...
I vote we only make vehicles with a top speed of 50mph! What's the hurry....

Exactly...How many times has someone flew past you on the road and several miles later there they are stuck behind a caravan [lol]...What's the great need to speed, they don't get anywhere quicker.

johno
18-Aug-07, 21:20
Hmmmph that can be said about any driver in the UK IMO, the A9 is littered with wrecks of many cars and motor bikes and very few caravans, If you want visitors to come and see the delights of Spittal Hill and Dounreay, then you have to accept caravans....have you seen wifie drivers trying their hands a 3 point turns [lol]
have you never heard about the people that have never been in an accident but have caused hundreds of them,:eek:

Anne x
18-Aug-07, 21:44
Think you all been awful unfair to caravans etc
quote I love Clarkson jeremy that is

johno
18-Aug-07, 21:49
Think you all been awful unfair to caravans etc
quote I love Clarkson jeremy that is

not really, and i like jeremy ,and i just love what he do,es to caravans.[lol]

Anne x
18-Aug-07, 21:54
and that will be why !!! have you actually gone on a caravan hol I havent but had a static one in garden no clogging up the A9 but fun so maybe caravaners if thats the name do actually enjoy it and get a lot of pleasure
be patient !!! a9 No Built for speeding

johno
18-Aug-07, 22:04
and that will be why !!! have you actually gone on a caravan hol I havent but had a static one in garden no clogging up the A9 but fun so maybe caravaners if thats the name do actually enjoy it and get a lot of pleasure
be patient !!! a9 No Built for speeding
Anne you are trying very hard to twist my words. yes we lived in a static van for over a year, no i have,nt gone on a caravan holiday & never will so long as there are hotels & b& bs. yes i have pulled a trailer in my time ,
a 40 ft 40 ton one. even a 120 ft 200ton one on site. but i still think caravaners should pay for the amount of road they take up. hauliers have to so why not caravanner,s.:eek:

tip top
18-Aug-07, 22:14
Caravanners aren't too bad, its the Itallians in their caravanettes that cause all the tailabacks, allways three or four nose to tail

Anne x
18-Aug-07, 23:16
Shame !!! love clarkson my favourite programme on t v Top Gear
what A WOMAN LOVING IT !!! and caravans

ie hate the A9 and all it stands for

Anne x
18-Aug-07, 23:19
:(Johno would I dare ever twist your words not so I agree in part

DeHaviLand
18-Aug-07, 23:26
Caravanners aren't too bad, its the Itallians in their caravanettes that cause all the tailabacks, allways three or four nose to tail

AAArrrggghhhh, thats gonna ruin my weekend. I hate them, and prefer not to have to think about them on my days off.

A few years back I came up behind one at Golspie while driving north. It took me until Brora to realise that he was just the tail-guard for a party of 26 of them.

I never did get past them, one of the most frustrating driving experiences of my life.

JAWS
18-Aug-07, 23:44
There's nothing at all wrong with caravans, the problem lies with impatient drivers who can't understand why other people are allowed on the roads.

And no, I have never owned a caravan and have no current desire to obtain one.

lasher
19-Aug-07, 09:17
If more people only drove at 50mph the road would be a safer place to be...
I vote we only make vehicles with a top speed of 50mph! What's the hurry....
That must be the most ridiculous suggestion I have ever heard![evil]

laguna2
19-Aug-07, 09:39
AAArrrggghhhh, thats gonna ruin my weekend. I hate them, and prefer not to have to think about them on my days off.

A few years back I came up behind one at Golspie while driving north. It took me until Brora to realise that he was just the tail-guard for a party of 26 of them.

I never did get past them, one of the most frustrating driving experiences of my life.

Last weekend we can on a convoy of Italians in their campers on the A9 - 16 of them all with their number in the back window and all driving in order :eek: Luckily they turned off the road

cuddlepop
19-Aug-07, 10:34
The problem lies with inconsiderate drivers no matter whether they are towing a caravan or not.

This is silly tourist season over here and believe me they think its perfectly acceptable to dilly dally on a main road,refuse to pull over and let you pass,park anywhere and procede to walk across the road ....infront of you.

Afterall they just have to take that picture,recardless of traffic.

We own a caravan and Mr Cp alwas pulls over to let other vehicles pass.

Apart for Italian's they just make his blood boil.....[evil]

Torvaig
19-Aug-07, 10:49
That must be the most ridiculous suggestion I have ever heard![evil]

Poor Lasher; you must lead a very sheltered life......

Torvaig
19-Aug-07, 10:52
There's nothing at all wrong with caravans, the problem lies with impatient drivers who can't understand why other people are allowed on the roads.

And no, I have never owned a caravan and have no current desire to obtain one.

Exactly Jaws; all the good drivers race around at 70mph, never make any dangerous manouvres and are soooo courteous on the roads and are all obviously brain surgeons who are on a life saving mission everytime they get in a car.

Cattach
19-Aug-07, 16:28
Here we are again at the time of year of the caravan convoys.I personally hate the damn things. Was coming up the road from Inverness at the weekend & caught up behind three of them tailgating each other and rubber necking the sights between Golspie and Berridale at 40mph, No chance of overtaking as they were about a car distance apart. Nor had either of them any inclination of pulling in or distancing themselves a bit better to allow overtaking.Obviously they were a group that set of from home together and were nt going to get split up by anyone or anything, If they want to drag their homes about with them i think that they should pay more road tax than than the normal car driver, say double after all they use double the road, Hauliers have to pay more for their trailers so lets be fair to them and help spread the costs ,might even be a way to lower the tax for the rest of us, help compensate for the inconveniance & frustration caused. ps. as far as this particular group are concerned i think they could have shown a little common sense and a little more consideration towards other road users [evil]


I generally pull as close to the speed limit that anyone being held up by me is brreaking the law!!!
I have been held up as often by slow motorists as by caravans.
I have bee cut up by cars when pulling my van and overtaken in stupid places.
Most cars get so close behind you cannot actiually see them - stand back a bit and you will be seen and then there uis a fair chance the caravanner will let you past.
Don't talk to me about motorists - when letting them past in years gone by you always got a wave or some sort of signal. Now abot one in 10 acknowledges that you have slowed down, dropped a gear, los revs and used extra petrol just to let him overtake!!!

Tristan
19-Aug-07, 16:51
Isn't just a question of keeping your eyes open, checking the road conditions all around you and being a courteous driver. If you are causing a queue pull over. The only reason I can see to NOT pull over and let traffic pass would be that you are that unaware of what is going on around you while driving and if you are that unaware you not be on the road.

DeHaviLand
19-Aug-07, 20:36
That must be the most ridiculous suggestion I have ever heard![evil]

Stick around lasher, you'll hear plenty more.

bluelady
20-Aug-07, 12:11
The thing is, Caithness needs the tourisim so we have to put up with caravaners etc on the roads. Caravans are ideal for families who want to tour but cannae afford e hotels etc. An average B&B is between £20 and £30 each person per night, for a family of four, that works out expensive, especially when you still have to buy your main meals etc. I have been both caravanning and camping, but anyone whos camped somewhere for 7 days in e neverending rain, soon appreciates a caravan. Caravan drivers should be no problem as long as they maintain the correct speed and not travel in convoy, if they stopped to let all e impatient drivers pass, they would never get anywhere. As for taking pictures, they are trying to capture e beauty that we see everyday and sadly most likely take for granted.

DeHaviLand
20-Aug-07, 22:43
It has to be said, but caravanners would do well to remember that not everyone is on holiday. And while it would be nice occasionally to toddle along at 20mph under the speed limit, economic necessity, and the constraints of time, demand otherwise for the majority of us.