View Full Version : Whistleblowers BBC 1 tonight
Did anyone watch this programme?
I will not be buying meat, fish or TV ready meals in these two Supermarkets any more.
Tescos and Sainsburys have just recorded obscene profits and they say these incidents highlighted on the programme were isolated and well within the norm :eek:
I watched this tonight and ended up having to turn it over as it turned my stomach!! Now I am safely listening to music channels....lol.
I never buy out of these departments anyway so not affected by this, thank goodness, but it does make you wonder how hygienic most places are. When I used to work in the Bakery at Safeway up here (my that was a long time ago now) someone always kept on top of everything making sure all rules WERE kept. Woe betide anyone who faulted these!!!
j4bberw0ck
22-May-07, 23:01
Tescos and Sainsburys have just recorded obscene profits
Obscene, measured how; or against what benchmark?
Did anyone watch this programme?
I will not be buying meat, fish or TV ready meals in these two Supermarkets any more.
Tescos and Sainsburys have just recorded obscene profits and they say these incidents highlighted on the programme were isolated and well within the norm :eek:
I am vegetarian but buy meat from Tesco for my family. I had just finished my online shopping before reading this thread. Whats the panic about?
http://www.bbc.co.uk/consumer/tv_and_radio/whistleblower/supermarkets_20070522.shtml
Poor standards of food hygiene, selling out of date meat, falsifying food safety records, disgusting conditions of ready meal production....
I struggle to understand why you would buy meat from Tescos when the butchers that are in the Wick area are much better quality anyway?
NickInTheNorth
23-May-07, 08:42
never watched the programme, but having caught the trailers that pass for news items these days found the whole thing totally uninteresting.
Food is either fit to eat or not. No randomly invented date can make food safe. So don't people have the sense to be able to tell good food from bad - use you nose, and eyes, and fingers. They can all tell you far more than a date can.
Supermarket fish is almost invariably past it's best when it arrives at the supermarket, so I don't see a problem there.
Raw meat - it doesn't take a genius to tell good from bad, and even bad (depending on your definition of bad) if properly cooked is perfectly ok.
Cooked meats? I'd rather buy of the deli counter than the little plastic tubs that supermarkets love to sell us. Try buying one and leave it sealed in the fridge until the sell by date - more often than not it will look totally un-appetising by that date- and smell real bad when opened.
As to ready meals, wouldn't eat them anyway. If a manufacturer of ready meals that does not contain nuts cannot guarantee that it does not contain traces of nut then just how good is their hygiene anyway? And don't even get me started on the level of sugar, salt and additives in ready meals.
And do you honestly believe that it is only happening in those 2 supermarket chains?
Having worked in both Sainsbury's & Wal-Mart Asda for a short time, I have to say that their training is good and the emphasis on Health and Cleanliness & Food handling was to the fore front.
But after seeing the practices that were shown on this programme, I am shocked and disgusted by the stress that the staff are being put under by management to make more and more profit by fair means or foul
never watched the programme, but having caught the trailers that pass for news items these days found the whole thing totally uninteresting.
Food is either fit to eat or not. No randomly invented date can make food safe. So don't people have the sense to be able to tell good food from bad - use you nose, and eyes, and fingers. They can all tell you far more than a date can.
You didn't watch the programme so the 'tricks' used by the supermarket staff would catch even you out....
I guess what you don't know won't hurt you.
Supermarket fish is almost invariably past it's best when it arrives at the supermarket, so I don't see a problem there.
Nah, no problem. Thaw it, refreeze it, thaw it.... Just to make sure it really is past it's best.
Raw meat - it doesn't take a genius to tell good from bad, and even bad (depending on your definition of bad) if properly cooked is perfectly ok.
You're a genius? If they mix partially cooked mince (because the mincing machine was faulty it was actually cooking the meat as it minced it) with uncooked mince then of course thats not a problem....
If the meat does not have a sell by date on it how do you know how old it is if it has been frozen?
Cooked meats? I'd rather buy of the deli counter than the little plastic tubs that supermarkets love to sell us. Try buying one and leave it sealed in the fridge until the sell by date - more often than not it will look totally un-appetising by that date- and smell real bad when opened.
That's OK if the member of staff practices good food hygiene. The programme (oh I forgot, you didn't watch it) showed a member of staff going from the cooked meat counter to the raw meat counter and cross contaminating the fish counter in the process without even washing her hands.
As to ready meals, wouldn't eat them anyway. If a manufacturer of ready meals that does not contain nuts cannot guarantee that it does not contain traces of nut then just how good is their hygiene anyway? And don't even get me started on the level of sugar, salt and additives in ready meals.
And do you honestly believe that it is only happening in those 2 supermarket chains?
Who mentioned nuts? If you had watched the programme, nut allergy would have been the least of your concerns. How about workers going to the toilet then back to the production line without washing their hands? Factory rules state they should change their rubber boots after visiting the toilets. They failed to do this walking through the urine splattered floors back into the food areas. And as for the state of the toilets..... :eek:
Video footage showed a worker picking a bucket up off the same factory floor and dipping it into a vat of food mix.
Ready meals which should have been chilled as soon as they are made were stood out in the factory for hours - bacteria breeding ground?
And of course this is not restricted to the two branches in the programme but it does reveal a woeful management attitude to basic food hygiene. The staff shortages is just one aspect - while you're at the deli counter next time buying your oh-so-safe food ask them what do they do with the produce overnight. Cover it with week old bin liners? That's what they did in Sainsbury's. Why? Because it was cheaper than using any other form of covering.
That's where the point about obscene profits came in - these companies make millions each year but can't reach to spending a few pounds on disposable covering for food left out in counters overnight.
And the footage shot in the factory revealed a catalogue of bad, even dangerous, practices which the company claimed did not affect health. A company which only weeks before had an outbreak of salmonella - you would hope that would have tightened up their procedures but it did not.
The attitude of Tesco and Sainsbury's at the end was disappointing - they claim there wasn't really an issue and staff had been retrained where necessary. They refused an on-camera interview merely issuing a statement on the findings of the programme. They had been rumbled and I will think twice about shopping at either companies stores in future.
NickInTheNorth
23-May-07, 10:48
perhaps my post was not too clear :)
I start from a premise of not trusting supermarkets one little bit. Nor the whole food processing industry.
The are dedicated to nothing more than ever increasing profits. They are prepared to cut any corner to extract the extra penny. Given a real choice I would not shop in them at all, but in modern britain it is very difficult to avoid them.
As a nation we have allowed our food to be contaminated by bad practise like nowhere else in europe. It is very difficult in most places to buy good quality local fresh produce. Admittedly the supermarkets are now selling some - at premium prices - as niche products.
I don't trust 'em one bit, so I buy their products with the expectation of bad things happening, and then prepare meals with that in mind.
Sorry if I caused offence. I did not need to see the programme to know that their hygiene practises are bad. As to not using the 2 chains featured - they are now more likely to be following better hygiene practises than the ones not featured.
changilass
23-May-07, 10:49
When I was about 18 (YES I know it was a long time ago), I worked in a biscuit factory, I won't go into details, surfice it to say I didn't eat biscuits for years.[disgust]
Could do with another stint in there, would help me loose weight :lol:
Just to add, this was not one of the big companies, but one of the smaller ones that sold luxury biscuits that cost a bliddy fortune, having said tghat I have heard even worse stories from folks working for some of the larger companies.
NickInTheNorth
23-May-07, 10:52
Who mentioned nuts? If you had watched the programme, nut allergy would have been the least of your concerns.
I mentioned nuts :)
I am not concerned about nut allergy - at all. It was as I said simply an observation that if a factory cannot guarantee that nuts don't get into foods that don't contain nuts then they have very poor hygiene (and control) standards.
No offence Nick - your opinion of supermarkets wasn't clear though ;)
Big chains are not the only culprits.
I remember years ago while visiting Wick with my wife going to a local, well known and established, butchers for some meat. My wife was appalled to see the cooked meat sitting in the chiller display next to raw meat - basic food hygiene was not being followed in a small butchers then.
But we were harder in them days so a little food poisoning was nothing!!!
Re: the nuts. That was a touch of sarcasm - as I said, nut contamination was the last thing to worry about!!!
And we know why packaging contains the "traces of nuts" warning - it keeps the lawyers at bay.
I have to ask why so many people suffer from nut allergies in this day and age. Nuts were everywhere years ago but people didn't seem to mind.
I struggle to understand why you would buy meat from Tescos when the butchers that are in the Wick area are much better quality anyway?
1 I shop online as I prefer to and it saves me having to drag 3 kids around a busy supermarket
2 I don't drive, which means my husband would have to and he hates shopping with an absolute passion.
3 I have been into a butchers in Thurso and yes the service was good but the smell of butchers shops makes me feel sick.
Many years ago I was on a visit to a cannery and was astonished when veg missed the vat and landed on the floor. It was scooped up and put straight into the vat. I avoid tinned stuff like the plague, and never eat soup out just in case it came from a tin.
I have been reading the messages with a smile. Yes I did watch the TV and I am surprised that people really did not know this goes on. However this does not mean the food is not good to eat. How many people go away on holiday? Have you ever thought about the food you eat or buy in shops when you are on holiday . I have had so many people say the food was really great and cheap Why? Because the standard of food in this country is better then most places in the world.
Scout,
I don't think anyone is under the illusion that food production is squeaky clean or that shortcuts or poor practice never occurs somewhere along the food chain. But Tesco and Sainsburys are two main supermarkets with a large share of the market. This may only have happened in two stores but multiply that across the UK and it's bound to happen elsewhere.
One point which was raised was that of the 'audit trail' for frozen food. For those who didn't see the programme, a woman was interviewed about coming down with food poisoning after eating Tesco fish. It went to court but Tesco produced pages and pages of "evidence" that proved the fish she had consumed had been 'handled' properly. Records from the fishing boat that caught the fish, right down the line to the store. Proof it couldn't have been Tesco's fault. Yet as was shown last night the records in store for fridge temperature checks were falsified. What was to say the records in that woman's case were true?
Did anyone watch this programme?
I will not be buying meat, fish or TV ready meals in these two Supermarkets any more.
Tescos and Sainsburys have just recorded obscene profits and they say these incidents highlighted on the programme were isolated and well within the norm :eek:
Golach, now I have never ever for an instant or even a nano-second thought you to be naive or innocent, but..... do you really suppose that only these two supermarkets and their food factories are cutting corners with regard to food hygiene? (NEWSFLASH: to make food cheaper and, therefore, more sell-able, you make the processing as cheap as possible. To do that you figure out how to contort your way around the food safety act or hide what you cannot wiggle out of- All of the supermarkets and food factories will do as much as they can get away with).
When you buy from a supermarket you are buying from a faceless and unknown entity who cares alot about your buying potencial and little about you. When you buy from the corner deli ( I know...none in Wick...), butcher or fishmonger, you are buying from someone you can identify and that has a stake in the community he/she is selling produce too. They need their local cutomers as those are the only ones they have, and so will take better care of you.
Bit ironic really - all the little shopkeepers being forced out of business and what takes their place? Big, faceless, uncaring, profit hungry supermarket.
Remember that next time you walk past a boarded up butchers or bakers......
Golach, now I have never ever for an instant or even a nano-second thought you to be naive or innocent, but..... do you really suppose that only these two supermarkets and their food factories are cutting corners with regard to food hygiene?
Ju
I am neither naive or innocent, I was just making a statement that I will not be using either of these companies in the forseeable future, I am lucky I live in a big city and I have a choice to use other shops, if I find that the shops I use are using the same methods that Tesco's and Sainsburys have been doing then I will have to think again
We are all greedy little piggies. We shove our snouts into the biggest and shiniest trough available. It matters not that the Farmer is loading up with slops from a bucket that last contained cow dung, coz "Every little helps" and if it's good enough for King Jamie then it's good enough for the Babes.
It looks like Asda are at it too
http://www.theretailbulletin.com/?tag=ac2d43ef3f26cc74de242202e822ecb0
Just who do we trust out there? Or are we all just not willing to pay a decent price to our local suppliers, I admit I am as guilty as most, but I am having a re-think now on my shopping methods for the future.
Supermarket fish is almost invariably past it's best when it arrives at the supermarket, so I don't see a problem there.
You're right about it being past its best. Why buy fish that's been frozen for months on a freezer trawler and sold to a supermarket when you could go to one of the local fish shops and buy fresh fish landed at Scrabster or Wick the day before?
You'd be as well chewing old shoe leather than buying fish from a supermarket!!
And in terms of sustainability, have you seen where some of the supermarket fish is from? Prawns from Thailand, fish from South America... I hope they're collecting air miles!
You hear stories of small shops getting it wrong too. The last big food poisoning incident which killed many elderly people and put 100s more in hospital was started at a butchers in Lanarkshire.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/154107.stm
Closer to home a friend was buying meat in a local butchers a few years ago and the butcher used the same knife for the cooked and uncooked meat. I still use the butcher in question as I haven't seen any problems, however to say the supermarkets are the only ones who get it wrong is just not true.
NickInTheNorth
25-May-07, 13:07
no matter where food is bought from the ultimate responsibility for the safety of the food we buy rests with us, the consumer.
Someone earlier in this topic made reference to the fact that there was a problem with a mincer leading to some meat being cooked as it was minced, and then being sold mixed in with the raw mince. I agree that it is a very bad practise on the part of the store responsible. However if that "contaminated" was cooked correctly it could quite readily be eaten without anyone suffering any ill effects, and most likely without anyone even knowing the difference.
no matter where food is bought from the ultimate responsibility for the safety of the food we buy rests with us, the consumer.
Someone earlier in this topic made reference to the fact that there was a problem with a mincer leading to some meat being cooked as it was minced, and then being sold mixed in with the raw mince. I agree that it is a very bad practise on the part of the store responsible. However if that "contaminated" was cooked correctly it could quite readily be eaten without anyone suffering any ill effects, and most likely without anyone even knowing the difference.
That's an interesting point NickInTheNorth.
no matter where food is bought from the ultimate responsibility for the safety of the food we buy rests with us, the consumer.
Someone earlier in this topic made reference to the fact that there was a problem with a mincer leading to some meat being cooked as it was minced, and then being sold mixed in with the raw mince. I agree that it is a very bad practise on the part of the store responsible. However if that "contaminated" was cooked correctly it could quite readily be eaten without anyone suffering any ill effects, and most likely without anyone even knowing the difference.
Not necessarily. The mince would not have been down to the temperature it was supposed to be for quite a while ( at least in bacterial terms). If the right bacteria grew during that time and produce toxins, though the bacteria would be destroyed through proper cooking, the toxins would not necessarily be. Some kinds of toxins can kill.
The whole point of risk management in food is to control hazards that cannot be eliminated by futher processing. This is called HACCP (hazard analisis and critical control points). All food busineses are required to have HACCP plans for every process they carry out. When used correctly they are very effective in predicting and avoiding potencial problems, as well as flagging them when they ocurr. However, when the atitude of the the people handling food and monitoring through their own HACCP is that it is a pain in the rear and a useless paper excercise, the HACCP plan becomes exactly that and dangerous to boot.
In small shops common sense is predominant and the owner of the establishment does not need his plan to tell him what to do or how to do it. Their HACCP's are also alot simpler and not confused with huge quality control systems. They also tend to sell food on the whole less processed and in smaller lots than big supermarkets. All of these make them safer in food safety terms, in my opinion.
If you want safer food learn how to cook, how to identify ingredients, how to evaluate their freshness and, especially, how to treat/store your food when it's in your house. Do your own processing.
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