Wind/ Solar Power

[The Horseman]

Just reading about the re- making of the buildings at Wick Harbour for The Wind Power Offices....
Denmark is among Countries who are phasing out Wind Power as it has become too expensive..apparently other Countries are finding the same thing.
In Canada, both Wind and Solar Power are on the chopping block as again the prices ar too high. In fact the long term prices are becoming a burden that will become unaffordable.
It would appear that no real investigation went into these alternative sources of energy, and greedy industrialists pushed ahead with promises of cost savings which looked good in the beginning, but had no basis in fact.
Another example....Computers were supposed to do away with paper copies....not so....there are more paper copies now than ever before.
I was looking to find how much the HIE put into the re furbishment of the new Control Offices etc in Wick.... any thoughts people?

[Neil Howie]

Denmark is among Countries who are phasing out Wind Power as it has become too expensive..

do you have a source? as a quick search suggests they are still on track to increase it, and from Bloomberg (https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2017-01-24/denmark-to-seek-an-end-to-subsidies-for-offshore-wind-energy):

The comments come as the minister prepares to unveil a plan to put an end to Danish subsidies that have supported renewable energy in the country since the 1970s. He says such a framework is no longer necessary because wind power has proven its long-term capacity to compete on equal terms with fossil fuels, without state support. Lilleholt says it’s already cheaper to use wind than coal to generate electricity, based on estimated costs of creating a new facility.

[The Horseman]

Just read a new story a few days ago. The article did say that they were phasing out the subsidies as they were too expensive and this would make for increases in the 'finished product'.....i.e....electric power.
In Canada the Liberal Gov't is in trouble for quickly phasing out coal and guaranteeing too much for 'renewable energy'. They made 10 year guarantees a few years ago. This was after subsidizing the infrastructure......I do see the articles you mention.....I think the direction of this story was that the windmills and solar panels need to be renewed whereas coal didn't. The renewable energy need renewable infrastructure, the cost of which was not taken into consideration....

Quote......Jacob Peterson head of Equities at Sydbank in Denmark, a few days ago warned that it is too early for the Offshore wind farms to survive without Gov't subsidies, in fact he stated that he didn't even know if it would be profitable.
And that is why The Province of Ontario, Canada has cancelled some projects....
There are many opinions here, which have not seen these ideas through to fruition.

And harnessing all the surplus heat and moving it through the hot water pipes to heat individual homes.......seems we have heard that one before. Perhaps if done on a massive scale and properly thought out as they seem to have done in Denmark would help......The story I read was all rosy and the future was looked at with bright eyes.....There are great ideas many which involve renewable power, but nothing has been proven. The jury is out on these projects.....
BTW....I am not an engineer but what I think is, sometimes large companies pitch something that will make them huge profits with Gov't handouts/subsidized by the Gov't but when these subsidies have long gone, so are the Corporations.. The Politicians jump on this, through no fault of their own, as they are untrained in business......In Ontario the Gov't is being sued by the Wind Farms that were first approved and now are cancelled.
Just a thought......,We all have our thoughts.
Regards.....

[The Horseman]

FYI....apparently there is an article in the Groat this week. If you look at it on-line, at the very bottom you will see a comment from a GeorgeH stating that in May 2106 the Ministry of Energy stated that the Renewable Energy policy has become too expensive. They cannot afford it!

[Neil Howie]

FYI....apparently there is an article in the Groat this week. If you look at it on-line, at the very bottom you will see a comment from a GeorgeH stating that in May 2106 the Ministry of Energy stated that the Renewable Energy policy has become too expensive. They cannot afford it!

Thanks for that, I now know that the EU ruled in 2016 that the subsidies/tariffs were a form of unfair competition between the energy companies. So they had to get rid of them, and they offset that by scrapping the 5 planned offshore windfarms.

Yes I agree, it's a difficult matter whatever way you look at it. From the Chinese involvement of Hinckley or encroaching onshore wind farms, hopefully a solution can be found.

[The Horseman]

Yes, it is a difficult 'new road' to travel. In Canada we have a total of approx 20 Nuke Reactors, some of which are shutting down due to licensing regs. We also have several small ones at Universities and those that deal in isotopes.
Our Politicians ate tinkering with Solar and Wind, but not doing a good job of it.......mind you much of this 'new power' is trial and error. The thinking is that when the Gov't subsidies are gone, so will some of the conglomerates that are presently building and operating these Farms. So we shall see.....it is akin to the push for Battery Powered vehicles. The price of Petrol is half that of the UK, and we really don't have many diesel cars, in fact VW and Audi are not importing any more diesel vehicles into Canada, perhaps even America. Truck/lorries will retain Diesel engines.
It is a changing World with as I said. Trial and Error.
The only place that is certainly for EV's is California. They have undertaken very strict measures, even banning two stroke engines, years ago....mind you they have a population of 40 million, so they can do their own thing!
But now the Donald has arrived and he is changing things. He appointed the Anti green guy to the EP....Environmental Protection so who knows what will occur....And the Donald's Mother was from Lewis.....

[Rheghead]

The Danes are not phasing out wind power. They may be phasing out the incentives as they are probably not needed any more as wind is now cheaper than most types of fossil fuel generation if not cheaper than all types.

[The Horseman]

Denmark is in the process of phasing out Five Offshore wind plants as this renewable is becoming too expensive.
Google will confirm. In addition other Countries are doing the same, in fact Ontario, Canada has cancelled said wind power plants. Without subsidies it is not feasible/profitable/sustainable.
I don't wish to argue. Just reading the latest news....ty...

[Rheghead]

Denmark is in the process of phasing out Five Offshore wind plants as this renewable is becoming too expensive.
Google will confirm. In addition other Countries are doing the same, in fact Ontario, Canada has cancelled said wind power plants. Without subsidies it is not feasible/profitable/sustainable.
I don't wish to argue. Just reading the latest news....ty...

I think you will find that those plants are not being scrapped, they are being repowered under a new name with bigger turbines.


Following several repowering programmes the much larger turbines of today are more systematically included in the general planning framework. Thus a more organised approach for integrating wind power into the physical planning has been developed. The repowering programmes have also resulted in a significant reduction in numbers of turbines whilst the installed capacity has been increasing.

https://ens.dk/sites/ens.dk/files/Globalcooperation/physical_planning_of_wind_power.pdf

[The Horseman]

The Yes I have scanned the report and no where does it identify Cost. This was a report on the Implementation of greenhouse gas reduction and Low emission strategies. Methinks several years ago..
Recently the Danish Energy Minister Lillholt stated....Costs for Renewable energy is turning out to 'dramatically' increasing in costs since 2012 and it cannot go on. Plans are to 'scrap' five new offshore wind farms.
We have seen the same thing. Huge wind farms cancelled. And if the subsidies that are presently being paid, cease to exist the systems will probably collapse.
In addition, one of the probs that exist is Wind is not consistent, so there have to be back up systems....same with Solar....and no way of harnessing the energy for later use. Maybe Musk will build a big enuff Battery. There are projects that are underway to harness electrical power......caves/water etc., but none yet of value.
Of course Politics play a part. Our Gov't had to increase rates by 25% over the past 2 years or so...that was trouble for them..so they are reducing the Electical rates and taaking the 25% on somewhere else. The games that are played!

[Rheghead]

The Yes I have scanned the report and no where does it identify Cost. This was a report on the Implementation of greenhouse gas reduction and Low emission strategies. Methinks several years ago..
Recently the Danish Energy Minister Lillholt stated....Costs for Renewable energy is turning out to 'dramatically' increasing in costs since 2012 and it cannot go on. Plans are to 'scrap' five new offshore wind farms.
We have seen the same thing. Huge wind farms cancelled. And if the subsidies that are presently being paid, cease to exist the systems will probably collapse.
In addition, one of the probs that exist is Wind is not consistent, so there have to be back up systems....same with Solar....and no way of harnessing the energy for later use. Maybe Musk will build a big enuff Battery. There are projects that are underway to harness electrical power......caves/water etc., but none yet of value.
Of course Politics play a part. Our Gov't had to increase rates by 25% over the past 2 years or so...that was trouble for them..so they are reducing the Electical rates and taaking the 25% on somewhere else. The games that are played!

Costs are coming down for wind. Rather than phasing out wind power, the policy of Denmark is definitely one of expanding wind power to provide 50.1% of current consumption. That is definitely at odds with your version.

Just beware that the UK right wing media are constantly twisting the truth on renewable energy so I do not doubt what you have read. I've read it too.

[The Horseman]

Yes I think there are two versions...
Vestas is saying that it is amazing, and 50% by 2020, and the Gov'ts Energy Minister saying that they cannot afford the costs and are going to scrap future expansion.
Now, who will win.....Big business with their Lobbyists, or The Gov't who wants to keep costs Down so that they will get re elected.
The future shall tell.....s

[Rheghead]

Yes I think there are two versions...
Vestas is saying that it is amazing, and 50% by 2020, and the Gov'ts Energy Minister saying that they cannot afford the costs and are going to scrap future expansion.
Now, who will win.....Big business with their Lobbyists, or The Gov't who wants to keep costs Down so that they will get re elected.
The future shall tell.....s

I'd love to see a credible source that suggests what you are saying is correct. That link that I provided to show that Denmark was expanding its wind power was from the Danish department for energy in their government.

[The Horseman]

I'd love to see a credible source that suggests what you are saying is correct. That link that I provided to show that Denmark was expanding its wind power was from the Danish department for energy in their government.

Would I lie to you after seeing the video of Crayola...
Google ...The Daily Caller......Windswept Denmark says Wind Energy has become too expensive....that is the Abreviated version from Reuters.
And Canada is saying the same thing......
Am on an iPad and cannot pull it over here...s

[Rheghead]

Would I lie to you after seeing the video of Crayola...
Google ...The Daily Caller......Windswept Denmark says Wind Energy has become too expensive....that is the Abreviated version from Reuters.
And Canada is saying the same thing......
Am on an iPad and cannot pull it over here...s

Please be careful of where you get your information from.


The Daily Caller publishes information that cannot be validated and that is anti scientific fact. The information provided should be regarded as speculative opinion or propaganda and cannot be substantiated by fact or evidence. It is among the most untrustworthy sources in the media.

http://www.fakenewschecker.com/fake-news-source/daily-caller

[The Horseman]

Actually they were quoting Reuters...
Swedish Company Vattenfall won two tenders for windfarms in Denmark but the projects are in doubt. The costs of the Electricity from these two projects are twice the present price of Electricity which is .22 Danish Crowns and the rest would have to be subsidized by the Gov't, which is really the people paying double the price
Vattefall's Manager said......Denmark doesn't know what it wants at the moment.
I think I mentioned in a previous post that the Corporations push ahead to get as much money from the Countries, and this is what occurred...Copied from Reuters...
Same scenario as here.
Over and out! Regards..s

[Rheghead]

Actually they were quoting Reuters...
Swedish Company Vattenfall won two tenders for windfarms in Denmark but the projects are in doubt. The costs of the Electricity from these two projects are twice the present price of Electricity which is .22 Danish Crowns and the rest would have to be subsidized by the Gov't, which is really the people paying double the price
Vattefall's Manager said......Denmark doesn't know what it wants at the moment.
I think I mentioned in a previous post that the Corporations push ahead to get as much money from the Countries, and this is what occurred...Copied from Reuters...
Same scenario as here.
Over and out! Regards..s

They claim they are quoting Reuters. They can quote small snippets of Reuters word for word but leave out the most of what Reuters said that would have put the main message in context.

[The Horseman]

They claim they are quoting Reuters. They can quote small snippets of Reuters word for word but leave out the most of what Reuters said that would have put the main message in context.

No....no.....I went to Reuters website. Quoted them......

[Rheghead]

No....no.....I went to Reuters website. Quoted them......

Who are we supposed to believe then if what Reuters is saying is completely wide of the mark as well then?

[The Horseman]

Who are we supposed to believe then if what Reuters is saying is completely wide of the mark as well then?

I defer to u......Times takes turns says Robbie Burns!

[The Horseman]

Brazil is another who has run out of money for windpower.
Renova Energia a Brazilian Company controlled by South Africa were building a 'compound of windfarms' and have stopped work as the money ran out. They are attempting to get money, but the losses are climbing these past few years. s

[The Horseman]

Been reading a bit about 'renewable power'. It would appear that no Company can continue with this means of powered electrical generation, without Gov't Grants....OR a dramatic increase in the costs to the customers. (Really the same thing).
The large Conglomarates are pushing ahead with his 'new' idea, as there are magnificent profits for them...at the present time. When these free monies disappear, in the not too distant future/ in 20/30 years there will be 'rusting giants across the Nations.
Reuters!

[Recycle it]

Been reading a bit about 'renewable power'. It would appear that no Company can continue with this means of powered electrical generation, without Gov't Grants....OR a dramatic increase in the costs to the customers. (Really the same thing).
The large Conglomarates are pushing ahead with his 'new' idea, as there are magnificent profits for them...at the present time. When these free monies disappear, in the not too distant future/ in 20/30 years there will be 'rusting giants across the Nations.
Reuters!

Maybe the utilities could use some of the £2 billion they are charging customers to fund the smart meter programme . Also try passing on the extra 5% a year in hidden meter charges thereafter and use it to help renewables . Yet again Westminster is feeding the Fat Cat Monster from the table of the poor .

[The Horseman]

VERY WELL PUT,

We in Ontario, Canada have had Smart Meters for approx 5 years and they are now abandoning those in rural areas, as they are quite inaccurate. So they will be sending people out to read them (36,000) .....wow.....I remember when they did that!
In fact they are doing away with them across Canada.....probs were fire, exploding, wrong data being transmitted and general probs. Included were the Pulsed Microwave Radiation.......Several million were installed but the power companies found there to be No Reduction in consumption!
In British Columbia they are removing 88,000.
Now back to electrical powered vehicles......In Toronto the Transit Commission have totally given up on battery powered buses.....too many probs......back to Internal Combustion!

[Rheghead]

British Columbia smart meter myth buster.

Myth: Smart meters will transfer money from customers' pockets to big corporations through higher rates.

Fact: BC Hydro's Smart Metering Program will pay for itself through reduced theft of electricity, energy savings and operating efficiencies, and will deliver $520 million in net benefits over 20 years. Since BC Hydro is a publically owned utility, all of these savings will be passed on to our customers – keeping rates lower than they otherwise would be without the program.



Myth: Smart meters emit high levels of microwave radiation.

Fact: Smart meters do not emit any microwave radiation. They communicate using radio frequency, which is a different type of electromagnetic field than microwave.



Myth: Like a cell phone, smart meters transmit signals 24/7.

Fact: Unlike cell phones, smart meters communicate for only minutes per day and remain in a fixed location, so they do not need to constantly search for a signal.



Myth: Smart meters will emit high levels of radio frequency radiation into my home.

Fact: Smart meters communicate using an extremely low, infrequent, and short signal. Radio frequency signals from smart meters are much lower than the signal from common everyday devices such as radios, baby monitors and even the spark plugs in your car.



Myth: BC Hydro has not researched the health effects of radio frequency.

Fact: The potential effects of radio frequency have been carefully investigated around the world. Many reputable health authorities, such as the World Health Organization and Health Canada, have conducted thorough reviews of all of the different types of studies and research on electromagnetic fields and health and have determined that there is no cause-effect relationship between exposure to radio frequency and human health.



Myth: Smart meters can be easily “hacked".

Fact: Smart meters use data encryption similar to that used by online banking systems. BC Hydro has not, and will not, deploy anything on the system until we are fully confident issues of privacy and security are properly addressed.



Myth: Smart meters will allow BC Hydro to know when I’m at home and what appliances or electronic devices I am using.

Fact: At no time will BC Hydro have access to any customer's real-time consumption data. Only customers who choose to take advantage of in-home feedback devices will have access to real-time consumption data in the privacy of their own homes. All personal information collected is handled in accordance with the British Columbia Freedom of Information and Protection of Privacy Act.



Myth: Smart meters mean job losses.

Fact: The Smart Metering Program will create new technology jobs to maintain and operate the smart metering system. In addition, the installation of the new meters will create approximately 350 jobs and generate $30 to $40 million in direct wages.



Myth: Smart meters are a fire hazard.

Fact: The risk of smart meters causing electrical problems is the same as the extremely low risk that exists with today’s meters. This is because the smart meter measures electricity - it does not use it. In fact, smart meters provide an additional level of protection because the meter will “take the hit” rather than allow electricity surges to travel into the customer's premise.



Myth: BC Hydro has been installing smart meters since 2008.

Fact: Smart meters will not be installed until the summer of 2011. Currently some customers have meters with a digital display that look similar to smart meters. However, their internal components are very different.


http://thenelsondaily.com/news/technology/top-10-smart-metering-program-myths-and-facts-10167#.WNf5wKK1vIU

[The Horseman]

We are surely looking at different info.......
Several of your comments are legit, but there are 3 sides to this story.....The Gov't., the people who have had probs and then there is something in the middle.
One of the big advantages of a Smart meter is that at the flick of a switch they can cut people off....This was one of the main reasons for Smart Meters. Get behind on your Bill.....cut off the electricity. It has become so bad in Ontario that the Gov't has gone to Court to force Ontario Power Generation to re connect those without power. Can u imagine it being 25 below zero and no heat!
The electrical companies have alterior motives for helping the Public!!
********I now see where u got ur facts.....BC Hydro news releases...........

And B.C. Hydro has yet to report any savings, mind you they have many contests and spending million of dollars on promotional material. In. 2013 there were

So the bottom line is.....They can quickly disconnect anyone who is overdue on their Electric bill!....
Just found the proper wording for cutting people off.....AN OPEARTIONAL EFFICIENCY! The Smart Meter reports in 48 times per day.
In 2013 there were 5,000 disconnections...In 2016 there were over 30,000...Ccccolde eh.....

[Rheghead]

On the plus side, if it takes seconds to cut off a customer then it can also take seconds to reconnect a customer when the bill is settled.

[The Horseman]

On the plus side, if it takes seconds to cut off a customer then it can also take seconds to reconnect a customer when the bill is settled.

Yes I agree with you there....I can see both sides of this.....I am not a Softie, but have seen people in desperate states, whether it be due to their own fault or someone else's. And perhaps for a few months they cannot make ends meet. Fortunately I have never been in that situation, but I have to admit that our 'support system' is not the best...In my 'job' I have seen those without Hydro...Altho' most of our Furnaces are Gas, the central heating systems are powered by electricity.......no power no heat.

I do like the saying at the bottom of your page......so true....s

[The Horseman]

Was just reading in the Press and J that there are big plans for more Wind Power.....
A plan is afoot to build a huge wind farm in Moray which will power the whole North of Scotland. Also for floating windmills off Melvich and elsewhere.
So maybe I was wrong.....it seems that whatever is the 'flavour of the Week/Month, the Press shout out loudly about it.
And some say the costs are too high.
What will be, will be!

But what does show up is the continuing Gov't subsidies, and the increase in the cost of such power.

[Rheghead]

Seemingly wind and solar power are cheaper than coal now.

[The Horseman]

Trump has 'ungreened' America....they are going back to coal.

[Rheghead]

Trump may be keen on coal but will the energy companies reciprocate? If they are selling electricity at price X and they have to buy in energy from generators that have higher costs then where does that leave the ungreening of the USA? At the end of the day, it is all about making money and cutting costs.