View Full Version : Scotish Vote Scandal
Here is another web site for anyone not happy with the election results and the number of spoiled ballot papers on 3 May 2007. Please sign the petition on Scotish Vote Scandal and hope this will help with getting an enquiry into what went wrong with badly designed ballot papers.
Scottish Vote Scandal 3 May, 2007 Petition : [ powered by ...
j4bberw0ck
10-May-07, 00:36
I'm sorry, I don't understand why there's so much about "badly designed" ballots. I thought they were simple, the explanations was fine and it took about half a second to read and understand.
Perhaps the real problem is that something like 100,000 people didn't bother to read the few words of explanation. A number of people have argued that if they couldn't be bothered, they didn't deserve their vote anyway...........
changilass
10-May-07, 01:22
Perhaps the real problem is that something like 100,000 people didn't bother to read the few words of explanation. A number of people have argued that if they couldn't be bothered, they didn't deserve their vote anyway...........
OOOOpppps sorry, I hold my hand up, to being one of the ones that have argued that point, but as you say, the instructions were simple enough.:confused
NickInTheNorth
10-May-07, 08:04
Does anyone know in what way the ballot papers were spoiled?
Was it a series of numbers in the boxes rather than a cross? Or too many crosses or what?
Here is another web site for anyone not happy with the election results and the number of spoiled ballot papers on 3 May 2007. Please sign the petition on Scotish Vote Scandal and hope this will help with getting an enquiry into what went wrong with badly designed ballot papers.
Scottish Vote Scandal 3 May, 2007 Petition : [ powered by ...
The big scandal is that their apppears to be over 100.000 people in Scotland that are too stupid to fill in a very simple voting paper.
DeHaviLand
10-May-07, 12:14
Does anyone know in what way the ballot papers were spoiled?
Was it a series of numbers in the boxes rather than a cross? Or too many crosses or what?
There was some suggestion that we would be given a breakdown of the numbers of papers spoiled in any particular way, but this doesnt appear to have happened yet.
However, I believe there were a number of papers spoiled because people didnt vote in both the constituency and list ballots. I dont recall seeing that it was mandatory to vote in both, though thankfully I did, and dont see why a paper should be spoiled because someone decided to vote for a constituency MSP only.
I'm sorry, I don't understand why there's so much about "badly designed" ballots. I thought they were simple, the explanations was fine and it took about half a second to read and understand.
Perhaps the real problem is that something like 100,000 people didn't bother to read the few words of explanation. A number of people have argued that if they couldn't be bothered, they didn't deserve their vote anyway...........
There are people out there who didn't vote; not because of apathy but because some are elderly, slow in understanding, have a health condition etc., and were wary of going to vote and making a fool of themselves if they didn't understand the instructions.
These people are still perfectly capable of making their minds up as to which party/candidate they wish to support but have their pride and didn't want to look "stupid".
It is people like you JW who scorn those less able than yourself by saying "it took about half a second to read" who make some folk abstain from their right to vote. I do wish you and others like you would not take it for granted that everyone has the same faculties as your good selves.
May you never find yourself in such an unfortunate position in the future.
NickInTheNorth
10-May-07, 12:38
There was some suggestion that we would be given a breakdown of the numbers of papers spoiled in any particular way, but this doesnt appear to have happened yet.
However, I believe there were a number of papers spoiled because people didnt vote in both the constituency and list ballots. I dont recall seeing that it was mandatory to vote in both, though thankfully I did, and dont see why a paper should be spoiled because someone decided to vote for a constituency MSP only.
Interesting. That's pretty much what I suspected. Either that or people using numbers on the parliamentary ballots. I personally believe that some question marks must be placed against the decisions of the Returning Officers re spoiled papers. They actually have quite some discretion as far as I am aware.
DeHaviLand
10-May-07, 12:41
There are people out there who didn't vote; not because of apathy but because some are elderly, slow in understanding, have a health condition etc., and were wary of going to vote and making a fool of themselves if they didn't understand the instructions.
I agree, so lets not go making any more changes until all the old people have died off :)
There are people out there who didn't vote; not because of apathy but because some are elderly, slow in understanding, have a health condition etc., and were wary of going to vote and making a fool of themselves if they didn't understand the instructions.
These people are still perfectly capable of making their minds up as to which party/candidate they wish to support but have their pride and didn't want to look "stupid".
It is people like you JW who scorn those less able than yourself by saying "it took about half a second to read" who make some folk abstain from their right to vote. I do wish you and others like you would not take it for granted that everyone has the same faculties as your good selves.
May you never find yourself in such an unfortunate position in the future.
Quite right, Torvaig!
Some folk were unable to go to vote because of the reasons you mention, others found the ballot papers difficult for the very same reasons. It doesn't mean that they are either apathetic or stupid.
It's so easy for people who have none of these problems to made uninformed judgments and take, if I may say so, a rather supercilious tone.
And come on, jw0ck, even you must have taken more than "half a second" to understand the instructions... [lol]
I agree, so lets not go making any more changes until all the old people have died off :)
And that is just so totally un-funny [disgust]
changilass
10-May-07, 12:54
There are people out there who didn't vote; not because of apathy but because some are elderly, slow in understanding, have a health condition etc., and were wary of going to vote and making a fool of themselves if they didn't understand the instructions.
These people are still perfectly capable of making their minds up as to which party/candidate they wish to support but have their pride and didn't want to look "stupid".
.
There is a postal vote option for folk that didn't want to make a fool of themselves in public if they didn't understand the instructions.
The instructions were very clear (IMHO), surely they could have gotten a family member to help them to understand.
To be honest, I dont think it was so much folk not understanding as not bothering to read the enclosed instructions in the first place.
There is a postal vote option for folk that didn't want to make a fool of themselves in public if they didn't understand the instructions.
The instructions were very clear (IMHO), surely they could have gotten a family member to help them to understand.
To be honest, I dont think it was so much folk not understanding as not bothering to read the enclosed instructions in the first place.
Well, I chose to have a postal vote, changilass.
The papers arrived late and there was a mistake - they sent me the correct Parliamentary papers, but the wrong council ballot paper and list of candidates.
Obviously I wasn't alone. A couple of days later, I received a panic-stricken letter from the Returning Officer, saying there had been an error, and enclosing the correct council ballot papers for my ward. There were instructions telling me a) what to do if I had already mistakenly voted in the wrong ward (I hadn't) or b) if I had not.
By then I had 3 ballot papers (2 correct, 1 incorrect) and 6 different envelopes in front of me.
I'm neither old nor stupid, but it certainly didn't make the task easy.[disgust]
I accept that there were a lot of spoilt ballots because of the changes in the voting system but I can't accept that a lot of spoilt ballots were caused by familiarity bred contempt effect. We don't get stuck into a routine from a biannual event.
What I do think was that people hadn't prepared themselves and it is very hard to do things logically in an enclosed space like a voting booth, most people, I'd imagine, want to go in and out as quick as possible because of perceived pressure on them. I think it was nerves that caused the problem rather than folk were too thick.
Does anyone know in what way the ballot papers were spoiled?
Was it a series of numbers in the boxes rather than a cross? Or too many crosses or what?
As far as I know the Parliament Paper on the left side with the long list of parties and the right side purple constituency vote. The left hand side a lot of papers people had numbered them the same as the Council vote and left the constituency side blank they obviously thought they had voted and it was all one paper. I was a canditate guest at the Glasgow SECC count so was able to view the spoiled ballot papers on the visual screen. If it was clear what the voter intentions was then it was accepted some crosses slighlty over the line the computer rejects them. In previous elections crosses over the line but mostly in one box were accepted and included in the count. Thought it was a dreadful waste of time going through thousands of spoiled ballot papers when in the old system the voters intentions were very clear. Using computers is not always the best as counts in previous elections were all over before 2.00a .m.
I know I have made a hash of the link lets hope this works this time.
http://www.ipetitions.com/petition/ScottishVoteScandal2007/
luskentyre
10-May-07, 21:28
There are people out there who didn't vote; not because of apathy but because some are elderly, slow in understanding, have a health condition etc., and were wary of going to vote and making a fool of themselves if they didn't understand the instructions.
These people are still perfectly capable of making their minds up as to which party/candidate they wish to support but have their pride and didn't want to look "stupid".
It is people like you JW who scorn those less able than yourself by saying "it took about half a second to read" who make some folk abstain from their right to vote. I do wish you and others like you would not take it for granted that everyone has the same faculties as your good selves.
May you never find yourself in such an unfortunate position in the future.
Sorry but I don't accept that at all. There were instructions delivered to homes well in advance and help was on hand at every polling station to explain things. I simply do not believe that anyone (who was serious about casting a vote) did not do so because they might feel "stupid".
Surely we can expect a little more of our citizens than drawing two lines on a bit of paper to make their wishes known?
From what has been said am I to assume that in all previous elections the voters have been intelligent enough to get things right yet in this one a vast number of voters have suddenly become stupid?
For whatever reason, in this election, the number of voting papers which were not correctly completed has increased dramatically. Simply saying that it is the fault of people for being thick is not a solution, the problem which needs a solution is exactly why, on this particular occassion, a problem arose.
I too am convinced I completed the voting slips correctly but, until it is known what went wrong, can any of us really be certain that our voting slips were not among those which were discarded?
We all make the assumption that we knew exactly what was required and it was other people who were too stupid to get it right.
The fact is that it did happen, the problem is that nobody knows why and burying our heads in the sand hoping it won't happen again is not a solution, it's simply an evasion.
There's an interesting update on this subject. It would appear that in two of the largest areas, Lothian and Glasgow, there were changes to the ballot papers.
After all the Nominations were finalised there were over 20 parties and individuals vying for the List Vote.
It was decided that, due to the numbers involved, the machines doing the counting might not be able to cope.
As a result the Ballot Papers were changed and people going to vote who were expecting one type of Ballot Paper were suddenly confronted by something different.
It seems that the arrows indicating that there should be only one vote in each column were removed. (Just how that was intended to assist the Counting Machines cope with the large number of options for the List Candidates is not explained)
There's nothing quite like making changes without telling people for causing confusion, works every time!
"The Ballot Paper wasn't like the one you were told about? Well we changed it, didn't we! What? You thought we'd have told you? Well you can't expect us to remember every trivial detail can you, anyway, what's a little change or two between friends it all adds to the fun!"
changilass
15-May-07, 12:01
When the msp's voted for deputy speaker there was aparently 4 spoiled votes:- now what does that tell us :lol:
When the msp's voted for deputy speaker there was aparently 4 spoiled votes:- now what does that tell us
Probably nothing we didn't know already! ;) [lol]
peter macdonald
15-May-07, 12:53
The enquiry into the election is to be run by a gentleman called Ron Gould
http://news.scotsman.com/scotland.cfm?id=750812007
I notice that the Scottish secy Douglas Alexander MP who organised the election seems to have disappeared from view I wonder if he is on an important trade mission to some important country which incidently has very poor communications to Scotland???????
Also his sister Wendy is being tipped to get Jack McConnells job by the Herald Oh well she will attack the SNP the Tories and everyone else( if she gets the job) without saying anything constructive or useful to anyone Ive never heard a politician who can be soooooo negative as this one
PM
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