View Full Version : Horses to suffer another winter?
Does anyone else share my concerns about the condition of two horses kept just past Lochend, Greenland. I intend to write to the SSPCA to bring to their attention to the worsening conditions.The horse is in a field at a derelict property with no shelter whatsoever, not even a coat, to protect it from the worst of the winter weather and provide some modicum of comfort and protection. The owner sporadically gives bales of hay which of course are now saturated ,the field is a 'bog' with no grass just mud, surely this is not giving adequate care and attention by any reasonable means? The other pony is in a field adjacent so they are separated, horses are herd animals and should be together. Passing by this evening after yet another heavy shower and falling temperatures the horse looked a forlorn sight. The 'owner' of these horses? Shame on you
Indeed, it's beyond me why people have animals if they are not willing to look after them, shocking way to "care" for them. Good luck with contacting the SSPCA you may need it.
cptdodger
15-Dec-15, 12:09
Phone the SSPCA 03000 999 999, they are open between 7am and 11pm, the calls are confidential. I had to call them a few weeks ago because I was really concerned about some dogs. I phoned them just after 9pm, because the officers had already finished, I was advised to contact the Police, who did attend, and sorted the matter out. Because you have concerns, let them know and they will do something, I personally thought I was overreacting, but they assured me I was not.
Good luck with the SSPCA - be better to call the World Horse Welfare (formerly the ILPH) they are a lot more caring about the welfare of animals and horses
cptdodger
15-Dec-15, 13:36
Does anyone else share my concerns about the condition of two horses kept just past Lochend, Greenland. I intend to write to the SSPCA to bring to their attention to the worsening conditions.The horse is in a field at a derelict property with no shelter whatsoever, not even a coat, to protect it from the worst of the winter weather and provide some modicum of comfort and protection. The owner sporadically gives bales of hay which of course are now saturated ,the field is a 'bog' with no grass just mud, surely this is not giving adequate care and attention by any reasonable means? The other pony is in a field adjacent so they are separated, horses are herd animals and should be together. Passing by this evening after yet another heavy shower and falling temperatures the horse looked a forlorn sight. The 'owner' of these horses? Shame on you
I have sent you a PM roshep.
cazmanian_minx
16-Dec-15, 15:36
I'm not sure either party will be able to do much :( From World Horse Welfare: http://www.worldhorsewelfare.org/When-should-I-call
Unfortunately there are a number of issues which, although not ideal, are not illegal and can therefore be very difficult for us to resolve. The following are examples of such and usually there is no need for us to attend unless the horse has one of the issues listed above or is clearly in danger or obvious distress.
Lack of rug. Most horses in the UK can cope without a rug in winter.
Lack of shelter. Shelter can be natural as well as manmade. Ideally horses should always have access to shelter but it is not a legal requirement.
Tethering. It is legal to tether horses providing it is not causing them a physical problem or done in a dangerous way. Many tethered horses will not be left with water at all times for a variety of reasons – although not always evident, owners of tethered horses will often bring water and food at specific times during the day (possibly very early in the morning or very late at night).
Lack of food or water. It is not a legal requirement to provide these at all times so there is nothing we can do about this specifically. However, horses which aren’t getting food or water will soon start to show physical signs, in which case we would encourage people to contact us as soon as possible.
Horses straying on the road should always be reported to the police as a matter of urgency. If there are any physical problems with the horses, we can also be contacted.
Ragwort problems should be reported to Natural England.
Lack of companionship. Although horses are herd animals and therefore ideally should be kept with others, it is not a legal requirement.
Waterlogged or muddy field.
Please remember that if any of these situations is accompanied by a physical problem with the horse, we would like to know more. We are also always happy to discuss individual situations in more detail, so please don’t ever hesitate to contact us if you are unsure.
They've got some pictures on that page of situations that they can help with - if the horses are emaciated, have overgrown or split hooves, untreated skin conditions (if you can get close enough, check their heels for signs of mud fever), laminitis, etc. - but if hay is being brought and they have a derelict building to shelter behind, there's nothing illegal going on.
hunsterboy
16-Dec-15, 20:19
Every the busy-body. You know absolutely nothing about how these horses are kept. I suggest you keep your lies and your stirring to yourself. Armchair animal rights activists. Horses roamed this earth long before we ever did and are hardy creatures. Maybe you should leave your cuddly animal opinions to yourself.
Janmac101
16-Dec-15, 21:39
I'm not sure either party will be able to do much :( From World Horse Welfare: http://www.worldhorsewelfare.org/When-should-I-call
Unfortunately there are a number of issues which, although not ideal, are not illegal and can therefore be very difficult for us to resolve. The following are examples of such and usually there is no need for us to attend unless the horse has one of the issues listed above or is clearly in danger or obvious distress.
Lack of rug. Most horses in the UK can cope without a rug in winter.
Lack of shelter. Shelter can be natural as well as manmade. Ideally horses should always have access to shelter but it is not a legal requirement.
Tethering. It is legal to tether horses providing it is not causing them a physical problem or done in a dangerous way. Many tethered horses will not be left with water at all times for a variety of reasons – although not always evident, owners of tethered horses will often bring water and food at specific times during the day (possibly very early in the morning or very late at night).
Lack of food or water. It is not a legal requirement to provide these at all times so there is nothing we can do about this specifically. However, horses which aren’t getting food or water will soon start to show physical signs, in which case we would encourage people to contact us as soon as possible.
Horses straying on the road should always be reported to the police as a matter of urgency. If there are any physical problems with the horses, we can also be contacted.
Ragwort problems should be reported to Natural England.
Lack of companionship. Although horses are herd animals and therefore ideally should be kept with others, it is not a legal requirement.
Waterlogged or muddy field.
Please remember that if any of these situations is accompanied by a physical problem with the horse, we would like to know more. We are also always happy to discuss individual situations in more detail, so please don’t ever hesitate to contact us if you are unsure.
They've got some pictures on that page of situations that they can help with - if the horses are emaciated, have overgrown or split hooves, untreated skin conditions (if you can get close enough, check their heels for signs of mud fever), laminitis, etc. - but if hay is being brought and they have a derelict building to shelter behind, there's nothing illegal going on.
What a great piece of info. Methinks this is what the ORG needs.
Good commonsense people.. Says it as it is, without the 'flowery' language of some/
Interesting....One uses it too too much, the other tries, but gets it wrong.
hunsterboy
16-Dec-15, 22:01
What a great piece of info. Methinks this is what the ORG needs.
Good commonsense people..
It is. People put coats on horses not keep them warm but to stop their hair from not being perfect at their next gymkhana. These horses are in excellent condition as anyone who actually knows anything about horses will tell you if they inspect them. How did several billion years of life on earth manage to survive without interfering ignorant busy bodies along the way ?
Gosh these new members (hunsterboy) certainly get stuck in as soon as they join, seems to be a LOT of new folk on here, all of a sudden?
cptdodger
16-Dec-15, 23:15
Gosh these new members (hunsterboy) certainly get stuck in as soon as they join, seems to be a LOT of new folk on here, all of a sudden?
I was just thinking that myself. God forbid anybody should be concerned about the welfare of animals.
As one of the 'busybodies' husterboy seems so enraged about 'methinks he doth protest too much' (sorry Shakespear) I make absolutely no apologies to him or anyone else. Compassion and interest in animals does not brand someone an 'activist' , just a caring human being. I thank (most!) correspondents for their input, good to know that there are some kind hearted people out there.
hunsterboy
17-Dec-15, 20:48
As one of the 'busybodies' husterboy seems so enraged about 'methinks he doth protest too much' (sorry Shakespear) I make absolutely no apologies to him or anyone else. Compassion and interest in animals does not brand someone an 'activist' , just a caring human being. I thank (most!) correspondents for their input, good to know that there are some kind hearted people out there.
It's alright then to make some random false accusations about other people and their property ? Oh well I better take a run past your house then and come back here and accuse you of something ridiculous. I challenge you to present clear evidence here that there is anything at all wrong with these animals - or present an apology. I know 100% that you'll be providing the apology. On you go - get out your vehicle and inspect their teeth, hooves, chest. Anything you want because you will find a couple of sturdy healthy creatures.
You can live your existence as a mad lonely cat woman but don't cast your pathetic ignorance onto other people's lives . You can't even tell us the breed of the horses I bet.
Steady up Neddy - opps I mean hunsterboy!
arransinclair
18-Dec-15, 18:14
Does anyone else share my concerns about the condition of two horses kept just past Lochend, Greenland. I intend to write to the SSPCA to bring to their attention to the worsening conditions.The horse is in a field at a derelict property with no shelter whatsoever, not even a coat, to protect it from the worst of the winter weather and provide some modicum of comfort and protection. The owner sporadically gives bales of hay which of course are now saturated ,the field is a 'bog' with no grass just mud, surely this is not giving adequate care and attention by any reasonable means? The other pony is in a field adjacent so they are separated, horses are herd animals and should be together. Passing by this evening after yet another heavy shower and falling temperatures the horse looked a forlorn sight. The 'owner' of these horses? Shame on you
I'm pretty sure they're for sale, I can give you the contact details if you're interested
Your verbal diarrohoea just confirms my point. I stand by everything said and you will not change my opinion in the slightest so don't even bother to reply. You are in the minority and therefore somewhat irrelevant.
Your verbal diarrohoea just confirms my point. I stand by everything said and you will not change my opinion in the slightest so don't even bother to reply. You are in the minority and therefore somewhat irrelevant.
He's somewhat relevant if he owns the horse.
arransinclair
18-Dec-15, 19:34
Your verbal diarrohoea just confirms my point. I stand by everything said and you will not change my opinion in the slightest so don't even bother to reply. You are in the minority and therefore somewhat irrelevant.
Sorry, but how is offering my assistance "verbal diarrhea"? And I don't think I suggested that you change your opinion..
rogermellie
18-Dec-15, 22:34
my browser has this advert at the bottom of this thread
28440
who needs to horse around with games like Howrse when you've got threads like this ?
Sorry, my comments weren't directed to you, a case of pressing the wrong reply button! I appreciate your input so once again apologies.
Sids, his comments concerning this matter may be relevant IF he owns the horse (not stated) but his personal attacks are not, the subject alone should be the focus of debate.
Janmac101
18-Dec-15, 23:08
Roshep.......Perhaps we can all appreciate your thoughts of the poor horses, but they are hardy and sometimes, altho' they look ragged, they are OK.
If you are convinced they are in danger. then go to the authorities and ask them to check.
No one is going have a vendetta against you for kind thoughts.
I don't think there is a Majority or minority here/ you saw something that concerns you and said what you were going to do. All the best.
hunsterboy
19-Dec-15, 09:33
Your verbal diarrohoea just confirms my point.
Your 'point' was to make a self-righteous personal attack on someone ("the owner?" as you put it). As other people here have now told you, you should engage your little brain before slating others for no reason whatsoever other than, as usual, to stir up trouble in the area. Some people have so much time on their hands that they don't know what to do with themselves. There is nothing to debate. These animals are in excellent condition - this is nature in a natural environment. What's your next campaign - taking the crabs out of the Pentland Firth because they look like they are wet and cold ?
. What's your next campaign - taking the crabs out of the Pentland Firth because they look like they are wet and cold ?
They're all going to get chewed up in the tidal generators.
Your 'point' was to make a self-righteous personal attack on someone ("the owner?" as you put it). As other people here have now told you, you should engage your little brain before slating others for no reason whatsoever other than, as usual, to stir up trouble in the area. Some people have so much time on their hands that they don't know what to do with themselves. There is nothing to debate. These animals are in excellent condition - this is nature in a natural environment. What's your next campaign - taking the crabs out of the Pentland Firth because they look like they are wet and cold ?
I have never said that these horses were in bad condition, cruelly treated etc (read my post!). All I was pointing out was that perhaps some shelter could be made at the property to afford more protection from the worst of the winter weather, dry hay etc,, what is wrong with that observation (hardly a 'campaign'), why so defensive?, if anyone is making a 'self righteous personal attack' and pathetic vitriolic outbursts, it is certainly not me, I will no longer dignify your 'replies' with a response. as I said earlier I make no apologies for caring.
Horses evolved as animals of steppe grasslands able to roam many miles each day in search of food, water etc and able to find higher and drier ground to avoid having to stand around in mud. It is arguable that very few horses in the UK are kept in 'natural' conditions as there are not many owners with the necessary acreage and conditions to make this possible. So it is often necessary to give them supplementary feed in the form of hay in the winter just to keep them going or they will lose condition and suffer. Also, unless they are of a 'native breed' ie as tough as old boots and with a long, hairy coat, a rug may well be needed to keep a horse warm and to exclude the wind and rain. Likewise, an old horse, just like an old human, benefits from having a rug, shelter and good food provided. So there is not a 'one size' fits all policy.
I think that a caring owner would appreciate rather than denigrate someone being concerned. I have certainly known horses in this county absolutely neglected and abandoned by an owner and left to fend for themselves in awful winter conditions. It is worth bearing in mind that the advice to horse owners is that you should check up on them twice each day to ensure that they are not caught in a fence or injured or something like that and simple observation can soon show you if someone is bothering to do that or not.
I'm not sure that even a caring owner would appreciate "Shame on you."
Does anyone else share my concerns about the condition of two horses kept just past Lochend, Greenland. I intend to write to the SSPCA to bring to their attention to the worsening conditions.The horse is in a field at a derelict property with no shelter whatsoever, not even a coat, to protect it from the worst of the winter weather and provide some modicum of comfort and protection. The owner sporadically gives bales of hay which of course are now saturated ,the field is a 'bog' with no grass just mud, surely this is not giving adequate care and attention by any reasonable means? The other pony is in a field adjacent so they are separated, horses are herd animals and should be together. Passing by this evening after yet another heavy shower and falling temperatures the horse looked a forlorn sight. The 'owner' of these horses? Shame on you
If as you say you are concerned for their welfare of these ponies why would you bother to post on here why would you not just phone the sspca .Have you spoken to the owners and voiced your concern and are you clued up on the keeping of horses .if your just seeing these ponies now and again how would you know what the care routine was unless your housed opposite them .
cazmanian_minx
21-Dec-15, 08:58
There's a sensible article here on why horses don't always need to be rugged in winter: http://thesoulofahorse.com/blog/a-amazing-article-on-why-horses-should-not-be-blanketed-in-winter/
It's got lots of helpful pictures including one of an Arabian horse turned out in temperatures of about -27C showing how the coat fluffs itself up to provide extra insulation, and one showing how the longer top hairs channel off water, leaving the insulating undercoat dry. When I checked mine in the rain the other day, I gently parted some of the hair on their backs and they were completely dry at the skin and warm as toast.
Another link that might be useful is how to body condition score a horse: http://www.worldhorsewelfare.org/right-weight As an example, I've got one that's on the upper edge of an acceptable weight:
http://i291.photobucket.com/albums/ll302/cazmanian_minx/Merlin/20151220-IMG_9281_zpsixovx7ld.jpg
and one that needs to lose a good 50kg to be a healthy weight (it's coming off at 4-5kg a week at the moment):
http://i291.photobucket.com/albums/ll302/cazmanian_minx/Finn/20151220-IMG_9282_zpsyvl1lifc.jpg
Those links are excellent, thanks very much!
My wife and I, rather late in life, have acquired our first pony. I soon discovered that it needs to be defended against well-intentioned people who want to see it swaddled in a coat whenever the weather turns bad!
So this is why we see thin coated and thin-skinned thoroughbreds and race horses routinely kept out in the winter cold, wind and rain without a rug on and happy as pigs in muck (silly owners for thinking that they might need some protection) and why the welfare/rescue centres throughout the UK are not snowed under (forgive the pun) with pathetically skeletal equines that have become that way through lack of food, warmth (which a rug would have helped to provide) and shelter? Of course, some of these poor creatures may have been old and weak or mares with a foal and foot and needing that bit more TLC and in the natural world, they would have been picked off by a hungry predator. Perhaps we need to bring back wolves and lynx and then we could all fully rejoice in the operation of the natural world in relation to horse welfare and close down all the many rescue centres!
If there was money in fattening up horses for consumption you'd see a lot less neglected horses.
I'm with you Fulmar - very eloquently put!
So this is why we see thin coated and thin-skinned thoroughbreds and race horses routinely kept out in the winter cold, wind and rain without a rug on and happy as pigs in muck (silly owners for thinking that they might need some protection) and why the welfare/rescue centres throughout the UK are not snowed under (forgive the pun) with pathetically skeletal equines that have become that way through lack of food, warmth (which a rug would have helped to provide) and shelter? Of course, some of these poor creatures may have been old and weak or mares with a foal and foot and needing that bit more TLC and in the natural world, they would have been picked off by a hungry predator. Perhaps we need to bring back wolves and lynx and then we could all fully rejoice in the operation of the natural world in relation to horse welfare and close down all the many rescue centres!
Sarcasm was really all that was missing from the thread.
cazmanian_minx
22-Dec-15, 20:27
I think it's common sense really; elderlies and clipped horses will need a rug more often than full-coated younger ones - but the majority of animals at World Horse Welfare's Belwade Farm in Aberdeenshire, where the weather can be pretty horrible, are rugless all winter.
Mackerel, congratulations on your new pony, hope you and your wife are enjoying him/her :)
Bet the "rugless" horses seen in Aberdeen in the care of World Horse Welfare have shelters to tuck themselves in during the worst of it!
arransinclair
22-Dec-15, 23:02
I have never said that these horses were in bad condition, cruelly treated etc (read my post!). All I was pointing out was that perhaps some shelter could be made at the property to afford more protection from the worst of the winter weather, dry hay etc,, what is wrong with that observation (hardly a 'campaign'), why so defensive?, if anyone is making a 'self righteous personal attack' and pathetic vitriolic outbursts, it is certainly not me, I will no longer dignify your 'replies' with a response. as I said earlier I make no apologies for caring.
Can I just say that there is shelter in the field, in the form of a custom built, insulated shed, the horses always have the choice to go in but tend to stay outside during the day. I am also assured that there is always dry hay in the shelter.
If there was money in fattening up horses for consumption you'd see a lot less neglected horses.
You are in illustrious company! Princess Anne has been saying the same for quite a while now. And your Christmas dinner will be.........?
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