Postal vote??

[changilass]

How do councillors/mp's know if you have a postal vote or not, should this not be a private matter between the voter and the electoral regitrar??


So how many folks know who have postal votes, meaning you may be away from home, and how safe does that leave your property with regards to theft????

[Phoebus_Apollo]

I was stung with a letter from the Lib-Dumbs advising me to use my postal vote for all their pathetic years in power..I thought this was a private matter also??

[Angela]

I applied for a postal vote as a one-off, and was surprised to get a letter saying "I have allowed your application to vote by post for an indefinite period"....which really wasn't what I wanted!

Maybe this means your name goes on a separate register? :confused

[Buttercup]

I also wondered this - today I received 2 identical letters from Jamie Stone telling me how to use my postal vote!
Now its years since I voted but while we're on the subject, one thing has always bugged me ~ when you go to the polling station they copy some number from your slip onto the voters roll (or vice-versa). Now if your vote is private why do they need to do this? Won't they be able to trace how you voted? Can anyone enlighten me? :confused

[Angela]

I also wondered this - today I received 2 identical letters from Jamie Stone telling me how to use my postal vote!
Now its years since I voted but while we're on the subject, one thing has always bugged me ~ when you go to the polling station they copy some number from your slip onto the voters roll (or vice-versa). Now if your vote is private why do they need to do this? Won't they be able to trace how you voted? Can anyone enlighten me?

Don't they just mark off the fact that you have voted, so you can't vote twice? :confused

I know you don't actually have to take your poll card with you if you're voting in person, which seems strange -how do they know you are who you say you are, if you don't have the card? :confused assuming they don't know you by sight of course!

[Buttercup]

I know they put a line through your name but they also cross-reference it by copying a number. :confused

[Angela]

I know they put a line through your name but they also cross-reference it by copying a number. :confused

Hopefully someone will see this thread and explain all to us! :eek:

[North Rhins]

Don't they just mark off the fact that you have voted, so you can't vote twice?

I know you don't actually have to take your poll card with you if you're voting in person, which seems strange -how do they know you are who you say you are, if you don't have the card? :confused assuming they don't know you by sight of course!

I think you’ll find that they write your electoral number on the stub of your voting slip. Watch what they do on the 3rd May. If they start writing numbers down ask them. As far as I know they can trace how you voted. So next time you want to vote for the monster raving loony party, be warned!!!![lol]

[golach]

This Link may help
http://www.votescotland.com/stv/CCC_FirstPage.jsp

[changilass]

Great link golach, but this still does not explain how candidates know wether you have a postal vote or not. How many folk work in the various offices and how are we to know if and who they are passing this info onto.

It is ok getting the paper work for the postal vote sent to another address so that the postman doesnt know you are going away (that doesn't bother me, I happen to trust my postie), but still not happy about the idea of folks knowing who has and who has not got a postal vote.

[golach]

Could it be, and I am only surmising here, that if you have a postal vote, then that is shown on the Electoral Roll, which anyone can get access too, or even buy a copy.
I am sure all budding Politicians will have access to an up to date copy

[changilass]

If that is the case then it is disgusting, I have nothing against being on the electoral role, but why does anyone need to know if I am voting in person or by post????[disgust] [evil]

[changilass]

Have just tried to call the number on the link, but they are shut for the night, so guess what I will be doing first thing in the morning[disgust]

[sweetpea]

I never knew that they can find out who you voted for, that's shocking. I always thought that if you pay council tax then your on the roll but that's not the case either. A few people have said that to me this last week when they didn't get cards.

[Bill Fernie]

Everyone standing for election is allowed to get copies of the electoral role in order to let them know who to canvass in the run up to the election.

I think the reason the postal list is given out also is that the postal votes can be sent in earlier than polling day. If any candidate is trying to target people who are about to vote it is essential for some people to know who may be voting earlier by post rather than waiting till polling day.

I have copy of the Wick list but am doubtful if I will be using it as for independents without party workers to canvas, deliver leaflets and so on it is too big a task to go individually to people with postal votes. I am delivering leaflets personally but of course it may be too late by the time I get to all of thehosues in Wick. With the new system we need to get round three times as many houses than last time. For the big parties this system makes little difference as they can send the leaflets for MSP's and councillors with the same workers.

You might say all prospective candidates should be round everywhere but it is pretty well impossible in the time available up to election day. I have set myself a number of streets to do each day and hope to complete by the day before polling day. Certainly getting me fittere than I have been for while. not before time you are all probably thinking.

[Victoria]

its all about the flyers......so it seems......:eek:

[changilass]

Still very concerned about this situation, most of who get postal votes are folk that are away, (be it holiday or work commitments) or the elderly, I don't think it is safe to give out this information.

I certainly will never do a postal vote again and if it means I don't vote then I think that is unfair.

[DeHaviLand]

I think you’ll find that they write your electoral number on the stub of your voting slip. Watch what they do on the 3rd May. If they start writing numbers down ask them. As far as I know they can trace how you voted. So next time you want to vote for the monster raving loony party, be warned!!!![lol]

This is correct, every single vote cast is traceable. The Government has always insisted it is a measure that they have to take to prevent fraudulent voting ( although it never stopped Sinn Fein supporters upholding their maxim of " vote early, vote often"), and that they would never use the system to find out how someone had voted. Do you really trust any Government not to use such invaluable information when they have it at their fingertips?

[George Brims]

If that is the case then it is disgusting, I have nothing against being on the electoral role, but why does anyone need to know if I am voting in person or by post????[disgust] [evil]
My guess is that the fact you bother to go to the trouble of asking for a postal vote means you are more likely to actually vote, unlike a lot of people, so the politicians find it is a more efficient use of their effort courting your vote.

[George Brims]

This is correct, every single vote cast is traceable. The Government has always insisted it is a measure that they have to take to prevent fraudulent voting ( although it never stopped Sinn Fein supporters upholding their maxim of " vote early, vote often"), and that they would never use the system to find out how someone had voted. Do you really trust any Government not to use such invaluable information when they have it at their fingertips?
Where do you get your evidence for Sinn Fein somehow having a way to get extra votes? Naive old thing that I am, I would have thought if they could do that, they could just win every election in N Ireland instead of having their allies in the IRA blow things up and shoot people.

[Bill Fernie]

How do councillors/mp's know if you have a postal vote or not, should this not be a private matter between the voter and the electoral regitrar??

So how many folks know who have postal votes, meaning you may be away from home, and how safe does that leave your property with regards to theft????

Hi changilass.
Here is the answer to your question. I hope it helps.

Candidates are entitled, on request, to a copy of the absent voting lists (paragraph 12(6), Schedule 3, Scottish Parliament (Elections etc.) Order 2007. The list is open to public inspection until the day of the poll.

Paragraph 117 of the Representation of the People (Scotland)(Amendment) Regulations 2007 also provide for a marked copy of the list of Postal Votes received (i.e. a list of those who return their postal vote) to be made available for public inspection and copies given, on request, to political parties. Inspection can take place at the appropriate Sheriff Clerk's Office in Wick, Dingwall and Inverness after the election.

This is all now UK electoral law.

Your ownly recourse would appear to be to lobby MP's and MSP's to get the legislation changed. You would need to make a very strong case to do that as all of this will have been fully debated when the law was passed.

[changilass]

Thanks very much for your reply Bill, wasn't expecting it so soon, considering how busy you are at the moment.

OMG this is worse than I first thought. Any member of the public can go and have a look to see who has gone for a postal vote leaving thier property very vunerable to theft in the case of anyone actually going away at the time.

I know not everyone that has a postal vote does so because they are going to be away on the day of the vote, but surely it has to be against human rights to force someone to tell the world and his wife that they are going away in order to be able to vote.

Would just add I am only going to be away for the day and we have 2 great big brutes of newfoundlands in the house, that will only allow their normal away day feeders in the house

[DeHaviLand]

Where do you get your evidence for Sinn Fein somehow having a way to get extra votes? Naive old thing that I am, I would have thought if they could do that, they could just win every election in N Ireland instead of having their allies in the IRA blow things up and shoot people.

Evidence? Its all around, plenty examples on the net if you just want to take a look.

[golach]

OMG this is worse than I first thought. Any member of the public can go and have a look to see who has gone for a postal vote leaving thier property very vunerable to theft in the case of anyone actually going away at the time.

Sorry Changi, I disagree with your assumption that everyone that has a postal vote is going on holiday, having a postal vote can be for many other reasons.
All voters leave their houses vunerable every time they go to vote, I am sure if you were going to be a target for burglary, there would be much easier ways of seeing or finding out if your not at home.

[changilass]

Sorry Changi, I disagree with your assumption that everyone that has a postal vote is going on holiday, having a postal vote can be for many other reasons.
All voters leave their houses vunerable every time they go to vote, I am sure if you were going to be a target for burglary, there would be much easier ways of seeing or finding out if your not at home.



I think you had best put your reading glasses on golach, I said in the case of anyone that is actually going away, not that everyone was going away.:D

I still think it stinks that to be allowed to vote IF I am gonna be away I have NO choice but to make this public knowledge.

Maybe when going away when voting is not happening I should put a notice in the Groat[disgust]

[Bill Fernie]

Changilass I think you have littleto wory about regarding the use of the lists made available to people who request to see it.

Is it likely that a burglar is going to present himself at the sheriff Clerks office and fill in the correct form etc to see the list. Only people like political parties and canidates for election seem to get full copies - unlikely they are burglars.

To get to the listing is bit daunting for anyone else to expose themselves to the full rigour of the UK law. Here is an extract and consider would even you want to go through this to get to look at a copy of the list -

This is an extract from the Representation of the People (Scotland)(Amendment) Regulations 2007

" Records and lists kept under Schedule 4
61. —(1) Any person entitled to be supplied in accordance with regulation 102, 104, 105 or 107 with copies of the full register is also a person entitled, subject to this regulation and to regulation 61A, to request that the registration officer supply free of charge the relevant part (within the meaning of those regulations) of a copy of any of the following information which he keeps–


(a) the current version of the information which would, in the event of a particular parliamentary election, be included in the postal voters lists, the list of proxies or the proxy postal voters lists, which he is required to keep under paragraph 5 or 7(8) of Schedule 4[69];

(b) the current or final version of the postal voters list, the list of proxies or the proxy postal voters lists kept under paragraph 5 or 7(8) of Schedule 4.


(2) A request under paragraph (1) shall be made in writing and shall specify–

(a) the information (or the relevant parts of the information) requested;

(b) whether the request is made only in respect of the current lists or whether it includes a request for the supply of any final list; and

(c) whether a printed copy of the records or lists is requested or a copy in data form.


(3) A person who obtains any information under this regulation may use it only for–

(a) research purposes within the meaning of that term in section 33 of the Data Protection Act 1998[70]; or

(b) electoral purposes,

and such use shall be subject to any restrictions specified in regulation 61A or, where the request for information was made by reference to entitlement under regulations 102, 104, 105 or 107, subject to any restrictions which would apply to the use of the full register under whichever of those regulations entitled that person to obtain that information.

(4) The registration officer shall supply a current copy of the information requested under paragraph (1), as soon as practicable after receipt of a request that is duly made.

(5) The registration officer shall supply a final copy of the postal voters list kept under paragraph 5(2) of Schedule 4, as soon as practicable after 5 p.m. on the eleventh day before the day of the poll, in response to a request under paragraph (1) that has been duly made.

(6) As soon as practicable after 5 p.m. on the sixth day before the day of the poll the registration officer shall–



(a) make a copy of the lists kept under paragraphs 5 and 7(8) of Schedule 4 available for inspection at his office in accordance with paragraphs (10) to (15); and

(b) at a parliamentary election, if he is not the returning officer for any constituency or part of a constituency in the area for which he is the registration officer, send to that officer a copy of those lists;

(c) supply a final copy of the postal voters lists or the list of proxies in response to every request under paragraph (1) that has been duly made.


(7) The registration officer shall supply a final copy of the proxy voters list kept under paragraph 5(3) of Schedule 4, updated to include any additions to that list made in consequence of any applications granted in accordance with regulation 56(3A), as soon as practicable after 5 p.m. on the day of the poll, to every person who received that list in accordance with paragraph (6)(c).

(8) Any person who has obtained or is entitled to obtain a copy of information covered by paragraph (1) may–



(a) supply a copy of the information to a processor for the purpose of processing the information; or

(b) procure that a processor processes and supplies to them any copy of the information which the processor has obtained under this regulation, for use in respect of the purposes for which that person is entitled to obtain such information.

(9) Paragraphs (2) and (3) and the condition in paragraph (4) of regulation 114[71] shall be taken to apply to the supply and processing of information supplied under this regulation as they apply to the supply and processing of the full register under Part 6 of these Regulations.

(10) Any person is entitled to request that the registration officer make available for inspection a copy of any of the information specified in paragraph (1).

(11) A request under paragraph (10) shall be made in writing and shall specify–

(a) the information (or relevant parts of the information) requested;

(b) whether the request is made only in respect of the current lists or whether it includes a request for the inspection of any final list;

(c) who will inspect the information;

(d) the date on which they wish to inspect the information; and

(e) whether they would prefer to inspect the information in a printed or data form.


(12) The registration officer shall make a copy of the information available for inspection under supervision on the date requested or as soon as practicable thereafter, if the request under paragraph (10) has been duly made.

(13) Where inspection requested under paragraph (10) takes place by providing a copy of the information on a computer screen or otherwise in data form, the registration officer shall ensure that the manner in, and equipment on, which that copy is provided do not permit any person consulting that copy to–

(a) search it by electronic means by reference to the name of any person; or

(b) copy or transmit any part of that copy by electronic, or any other means.


(14) A person who inspects a copy of information provided under paragraph (12), whether a printed copy or in data form, may not–


(a) make copies of any part of it; or

(b) record any particulars in it, otherwise than by means of hand written notes.

(15) Subject to any direction by the Secretary of State under section 52(1) of the 1983 Act, any duty on a registration officer to supply a copy or make information available for inspection under this regulation, imposes only a duty to provide that information in the form in which he holds it.

(16) For the purposes of this regulation–

(a) a "current" copy of records or lists is a copy of the records or lists as kept by the registration officer at the beginning of the day it is supplied; and

(b) any period of days shall be calculated in accordance with regulation 56(6) and (7)[72].


(17) The registration officer shall ensure that where he supplies or discloses information covered by paragraph (1)(a) in accordance with this regulation, he does not supply or disclose any record relating to–

(a) a person who has an anonymous entry; or

(b) the proxy of a person who has an anonymous entry.".

To read the whole Statutory Instrument go to
http://www.opsi.gov.uk/si/si2007/20070925.htm#12

I think that if thanyone used this route to get to the information to break in to your house they might as well ask to have the cuffs put on and be taken "directly to jail without passing GO" whilst they are in the office. checking the list.

I can see where you are coming from changilass but I think the safeguards are well thought out and only a very determined person would want to use this route to find out if you might and only might be away from home. It would be much easier I think just to park outside your house and watch you go to work or to the shops and much less risk of being detected. Why expose yourself in a public place and be asked questions about who you are and why you want to see the list. Yes you could lie but your face would have been seen and witnesses be then available for a further prosecution if it came to light of the misuse of the information. The risks attached to finding out using this information albeit that it is possible make it very unlikely in my view.

Don't worry about this but do all the normal things if going away -
Tell neighbours
Cancel milk and papers etc.
Make sure you have the best locks on windows and doors.
Lights around the house to come on with movement detectors.
And all of the other normal security measures................

Install a burglar alarm if really worried. Self installation types can be bought from B & Q, Homebase and so on and can connected to a centre via your phone for small fee each month.

And last of all keep your house insurances up to date.

Now what other listings are you on?

[Buttercup]

Just got my ballot papers for the postal vote. Envelope clearly marked - BALLOT PAPERS ENCLOSED. :roll:

[Angela]

Just got my ballot papers for the postal vote. Envelope clearly marked - BALLOT PAPERS ENCLOSED. :roll:

Snap, mine arrived moments ago, Buttercup! I believe they were all being sent out today.

I see when I return them, I have to enclose a signed "postal voting statement" to say I am me! so it will be perfectly obvious which way I voted.

I do take on board everything Bill said above though - I'm sure there would be easier ways for burglers to burgle my house, without waiting for polling day in the hope that I won't be here ...and in fact I WILL be here.;)

We have to hope that all our posties are good honest folk as well.

[robbain]

Article in today's Press & Journal 26th Apr 2007

ANGER AT POSTAL BALLOTS DELAYS

IAIN RAMAGE

08:50 - 26 April 2007

Postal ballot chaos erupted in the north and north-east last night after delays in the distribution of voting papers which left many people disenfranchised.

The Press and Journal was contacted by a number of victims of a bungle which left people who registered for a postal vote, for the purpose of business trips or holidays, missing out.

Blame was cast in all directions but no one accepted responsibility. Highland Council chief executive Arthur McCourt pointed the finger at almost everyone involved in the chain of printing and distribution.

As complaints rolled in, it was understood that several local councils in the north considered calling in their local police forces to investigate.

Postal ballot papers were due to hit doormats yesterday morning. It is unclear how many people have been affected by the fiasco.

Doug Lillie, of Balblair in the Black Isle, setting out on holiday this morning and likely to lose out, described the situation as "a postal shambles".

He said: "I telephoned the helpline listed on the confirmation card three or four times and was given differing information."

Mr McCourt, the returning officer for his region, offered an apology for the delay in the delivery of 17,689 ballot papers, amounting to 10% of Highland voters.

Mr McCourt said he had been assured the ballot papers had been printed, addressed and sent to the Royal Mail for posting yesterday with delivery starting today.

A spokesman for Aberdeenshire Council said: "A specialist firm printed the postal ballot papers for all local authorities for the upcoming election. Another contractor was appointed by the vast majority of councils to have them transported to the Royal Mail for delivery to households.

"Unfortunately, these processes were not completed as quickly as had been hoped."

A spokeswoman for DRS Data Services (DRA), of Milton Keynes, which prints the ballot papers, denied responsibility.

She said: "Postal ballot applications have significantly increased this year. The deadline for applications was extended, so people were still applying up to 5pm on the 18th, so clearly that's another factor.

"We, as a contractor, were never expected to print all the ballot papers immediately following the close of nominations and that is something people seem to be forgetting."

The Royal Mail's Julie Morrison said: "We understand there have been issues with printing and producing postal votes which have delayed them getting to us. As soon as the postal votes arrive with Royal Mail our people will be working to deliver these the next working day. Royal Mail does deal with 8.5million items every working day."

How many people will get their postal vote in time, I haven't have mine yet.

[Angela]

My postal voting papers arrived yesterday. When I got round to looking at them last night, something didn't seem to make sense....the council voting papers were for a different ward from what I thought was my ward! Maybe it was just me having a senior moment? :confused

Today, a letter has arrived apologising for the inconvenience, due to a "clerical error in the issue process"....enclosing papers for the correct ward, with a long and complicated spiel telling me what I should now do a) if I hadn't noticed the error and had already sent back the papers...or b) if I hadn't already voted.

A lot of people who choose a postal vote do so because they're elderly and can't get out to vote. I dread to think how much unnecessary confusion this will be causing them.[disgust]

Is the error a one-off I wonder?

[robbain]

Still haven't got my Postal Vote, heading off today for a week's holiday, how many people have been affected, there should be an inquiry to the faisco, heads should roll, and there should be a veto for least two weeks, and those who haven't received their postal votes, should be reallowed to vote.

[poppett]

We have a postal vote for convenience as some days we can not get out owing to disability.
The papers arrived, were dealt with and back in the postbox ( a square one as we don`t have round ones as depicted in the instructions near us) within the hour.
Later that day we had four canvassers on the doorstep and since then many sheets of paper..............too late I cry too late...the deed is done.
I have never believed the vote is secret due to numbers on forms etc., but still vote regardless.

[Lester]

I went offshore 22nd and my postal vote didnt come untill a day later i am away untill the 5th there is no way i can vote.This needs to be looked at as i am not the only one who i know that this has happened to.