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View Full Version : Swinney 'can't undo all Westminster cuts'



rob murray
15-Oct-15, 12:22
John Swinney says the Scottish government cannot afford to reverse all of the public spending cuts implemented by the Conservative government in Westminster. The deputy first minister was asked if Holyrood would undo the cuts, which have been proposed by the UK government as part of its austerity measures.
Mr Swinney said it was "highly unlikely" that Holyrood could find the £6bn needed, by his calculations, to pay for the tax and benefit changes.

A couple of days ago the government were still pledging to "top up" benefits affected by Westminster cuts...a noble claim...but its all just words.....maybe they should the word "aspire" more : ie we aspire to get shot of trident...we aspire to top up benefits....aspirations are just that, aspirations which they cant be tied to if they dont deliver. Seems that there's a lot of aspirations going on then. Anyway at least the guy is dealing with the reality, he isnt going to move tax rates to fund topping up benefit cuts, so does that mean that the SNP have now dropped the anti austerity "aspirations" and are moving towards the Tory strategy of getting people into work and minimsing benefits... as it all costs and we cant fund it as things stand ??? I feel they are drip feeding their poliicy reversals bit by bit..................

rob murray
15-Oct-15, 12:49
A bit of bluff calling going on re top up to benefits : the government will have the powers to do this independant of Westminster thats a fact :
The Scottish government will receive new powers to “top up” social security benefits which will make Holyrood one of the most powerful devolved parliaments in the world.
The Scotland Office is set to propose changes to the Scotland Bill in an effort to rebut claims the legislation does not live up to “the vow” (http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/c67bbbf0-6dcb-11e5-8608-a0853fb4e1fe.html#axzz3oM5QQqSo) made by David Cameron and other party leaders during the independence referendum.“Scottish government ministers will be able to design a significant part of Scotland’s welfare system and control income tax to pay for it,” David Mundell, Scottish secretary, said on Monday. “If they want to top up existing benefits, they will be able to.”

Well they can then...and they wont make the top ups...as they cant or wont fund them, so what is the spin to be : ie we cant fund these top ups as westminster benefits cuts are so deep and widespread hence very costly, or we wont mske top up payments as that will mean income tax increases which will hit us below the water line......politically

rob murray
15-Oct-15, 13:44
A bit of bluff calling going on re top up to benefits : the government will have the powers to do this independant of Westminster thats a fact :
The Scottish government will receive new powers to “top up” social security benefits which will make Holyrood one of the most powerful devolved parliaments in the world.
The Scotland Office is set to propose changes to the Scotland Bill in an effort to rebut claims the legislation does not live up to “the vow” (http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/c67bbbf0-6dcb-11e5-8608-a0853fb4e1fe.html#axzz3oM5QQqSo) made by David Cameron and other party leaders during the independence referendum.“Scottish government ministers will be able to design a significant part of Scotland’s welfare system and control income tax to pay for it,” David Mundell, Scottish secretary, said on Monday. “If they want to top up existing benefits, they will be able to.”

Well they can then...and they wont make the top ups...as they cant or wont fund them, so what is the spin to be : ie we cant fund these top ups as westminster benefits cuts are so deep and widespread hence very costly, or we wont mske top up payments as that will mean income tax increases which will hit us below the water line......politically

Update BBC News : STurgeon today at SNP conference
She told delegates: "There will, understandably, be significant interest in what our manifesto will say about independence.
"But let me make this clear: What matters just as much to me and to people across the country will be what it says about jobs and the economy, the safety of our communities, our hospitals and health centres, our schools, colleges and universities and our plans to use new powers to tackle poverty and inequality. Well Swinneys ruled the last one out hasnt he, see above ??

On indy 2

STurgeon stated.....Even a "thumping win" at next year's Scottish elections would not be enough to push for a second referendum.In an interview with the BBC's political editor Laura Kuenssberg, Ms Sturgeon said she would judge whether "No" voters had changed their minds.
In her BBC interview, Scotland's first minister said: "That [winning next year's election] in and of itself I don't think makes another referendum inevitable because many people I hope - and I take nothing for granted - but I hope vote SNP who didn't support independence, who might not support independence yet, and who might never support independence." So no indy 2 but a plea to noers to vote SNP on their record of government, think a lot of people arent going to be to happy with 2 major climb donws in a couple of days 1 NO indy 2 2 No tackling of austerity cuts.

Sorry, not SNP trashing...and not my words.....but an analyis of their words as outlined on BBC video and text, clearly showing contradictions and major policy climbdowns : see and hear for yourselves http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-34537000 sturgeon interview http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-34537559 swinney interview

bekisman
15-Oct-15, 14:20
Just back from Canada, and heard Sturgeon saying: "No one has the right to stand in the way of democracy." What the hell does she think she's doing, ignoring a democratic vote? duh

rob murray
15-Oct-15, 14:40
Just back from Canada, and heard Sturgeon saying: "No one has the right to stand in the way of democracy." What the hell does she think she's doing, ignoring a democratic vote? duh

AYe but thts just a sound bite inferring if the SNP got a massive vote and the assumption was that the vote wanted indy2, she coudnt interfere in this democratic process so will have indy 2...all bull....Swinney has back tracked and killed of major anti austerity "aspirations"...he cant afford to fund benefit top ups, unemploynt is rising against the falling UK trend, the scottish economy isnt doing so well, oil / gas revenues are knowhere...so Sturgeon has to manage expectations, as most who vote SNP are supporting the independance party arent they...thats what the SNP exist for. Sturgeon is changing the dialogue towards governing and away from independance.....ok they will stroll next years elections, but theres gonna be a hell of a lot of really disappointed people when they realise that there will be no indy 2....truth is, all along since the oil crash the SNP have known that fiscally the sums dont stack up. Swinneys U turn over benefit top ups (part of anti austerity ) shows that he / they, wont raise money through taxation to fund this, so taxes will remain the same but expect pressure to introduce means testing for current stuff and pressure to do away with council tax freeze.

Apparently her strategy is being called duality neccessity by the politics wonks......Duality - because she is simultaneously cooling the temperature on an instant poll while stressing that it is far from ruled out. Necessity - because she has few if any serious options open to her

BetterTogether
15-Oct-15, 15:09
Sorry I misheard this point earlier as I was a wee bit busy. Did not the first minister claim a brexit may be sufficient to trigger another referendum. If so what if Scotland itself votes against staying in the Eu. Has the SNP now actually taken advice on entry to the EU as an independent country. How would they sell the implementation of the Euro to the Scottish electorate, how would they claim to be independent when joining any increasingly federalised Europe. How would they sell the border controls that would have to appear between a EU free rUK and EU Scotland. How would they sell the currency conversions for business's selling into rUK. They lost the last referendum decisively because of just the threat of these unknowns where hanging about with a brexit those fears would be realities.

rob murray
15-Oct-15, 15:25
Sorry I misheard this point earlier as I was a wee bit busy. Did not the first minister claim a brexit may be sufficient to trigger another referendum. If so what if Scotland itself votes against staying in the Eu. Has the SNP now actually taken advice on entry to the EU as an independent country. How would they sell the implementation of the Euro to the Scottish electorate, how would they claim to be independent when joining any increasingly federalised Europe. How would they sell the border controls that would have to appear between a EU free rUK and EU Scotland. How would they sell the currency conversions for business's selling into rUK. They lost the last referendum decisively because of just the threat of these unknowns where hanging about with a brexit those fears would be realities.

What she actually said were key drivers for indy 2 which could boost support for independence: are further UK austerity ( thats just a let off for Swinney who cannot fund current benefits shortfalls of 6 billion ie its no our fault westminster are making cuts, that we cannot afford to plug, keep the heat on westmnster but do next to nothing : so thats a non starter ) , the replacement of Trident, ( again a so what, there will be no uplift in yes votes when UK replaces Trident ) and above all British exit from the EU without Scottish consent. ( again a so what as you righly point out they never had any answers to EU issues last time around so whats changed ) STurgeon is 100% for independance but knows that if another vote is taken and its lost then game over, so she is a pragmatist, hence the overtures and dialogue change towards "concentrating on governing" ( is that not their job ? ) and passing the buck to yes voters to persuade noers to change sides. As I say, she is managing the expectations of the freedom voters element of the SNP as she needs them ( and will get their votes ) to storm a victory next year, which gives 4 more years to get economy moving, use devolved powers in a positive manner and try and turn the tide towards at keast 60 / 70% yessers and sort out currency, EU and transitional issues so if all goes to plan indy 2 in say 10 years time, if ever. Otherwise nothing but posturing is going to and is happening....sleep easy !

BetterTogether
15-Oct-15, 15:51
I don't honestly believe a sufficient quantity of the population would be happy with no nuclear deterrent the way the worlds going at the moment. The anti nuclear brigade where born out of the 60s and the Cold War when we lived with the threat of a real nuclear war. I can remember guarding a nuclear missile base the paranoia over people getting in or flying over was incredible obviously I can't discuss the security precautions but I wouldn't want to try getting into one unless I had a death wish. Also a mobile nuclear unit which was deployed every time the USSR decided to sabre rattle impressive equipment and I feel a lot safer knowing that no one wants to play when you have those toys.
A Brexit would create more headaches for the SNP than it would cure there would be no currency union options for them to use, they would have to get absolutely accurate information on Europe and after the current SNP MPs intervention with Catalan I can see Spain being deliberately spiteful and saying No way Jose. Their economic answers failed them last time this time it would be harder still to make the argument.
As for Swinney he's a pig in a poke he knows he is going to get the powers but realises if he uses them to increase anything the electorate will rumble them.
At best they will win the next round of elections but the ensuing years will see the chickens come home to roost as all the payments they've deffered require dealing with and the economy struggles due to their inefficient handling. Closing the education attainmeant gap isn't really that good when all your doing is bringing the best down to the worsts level that's not really how it's supposed to work.

rob murray
15-Oct-15, 16:48
I don't honestly believe a sufficient quantity of the population would be happy with no nuclear deterrent the way the worlds going at the moment. The anti nuclear brigade where born out of the 60s and the Cold War when we lived with the threat of a real nuclear war. I can remember guarding a nuclear missile base the paranoia over people getting in or flying over was incredible obviously I can't discuss the security precautions but I wouldn't want to try getting into one unless I had a death wish. Also a mobile nuclear unit which was deployed every time the USSR decided to sabre rattle impressive equipment and I feel a lot safer knowing that no one wants to play when you have those toys.
A Brexit would create more headaches for the SNP than it would cure there would be no currency union options for them to use, they would have to get absolutely accurate information on Europe and after the current SNP MPs intervention with Catalan I can see Spain being deliberately spiteful and saying No way Jose. Their economic answers failed them last time this time it would be harder still to make the argument.
As for Swinney he's a pig in a poke he knows he is going to get the powers but realises if he uses them to increase anything the electorate will rumble them.
At best they will win the next round of elections but the ensuing years will see the chickens come home to roost as all the payments they've deffered require dealing with and the economy struggles due to their inefficient handling. Closing the education attainmeant gap isn't really that good when all your doing is bringing the best down to the worsts level that's not really how it's supposed to work.

Thats the bluff though, SWinney will get the powers....the excuses on how he will use them have already started no way will he intefere with current tax levels, he cant reduce them thats for sure, he wont raise them or all hell breaks lose...why increase taxes and pay out for so many "freebies" he is in a corner and only economic growth will get him out of it...and on current jobless figures and decimation of Oil that doesnt appear likely...the chickens are starting to come home but only recognised by the unconverted. Time will out....eventually.