View Full Version : R.N.L.I
Do you really want to know how the R.N.L.I spend all our public money or should i say waste our Money?Watch this space for a copy of a letter of the goings on at 1 Lifeboat Station in Scotland,or get in touch.PM me.
I thnik the RNLI do a magnificent job.
No the guys that man the boats do a magnificent job not the people that run R.N.L.I.
Well from my experience you need all parts of an organization to operate together in order for it to function effectively.
If you have something to say, spit it out mate instead of alluding to machiavellian activities.
And what experience do you have MATE ! Yes everyone needs to work together so why dont they ?No clue
For info Have you visited rnli2000.co.uk just 1 of the things that is on going at the moment.
Warrior wrote:
Do you really want to know how the R.N.L.I spend all our public money or should i say waste our Money?
So lets talk about the RNLI, but hold on its...........
Warrior wrote:
the goings on at 1 Lifeboat Station in Scotland
So far you have alluded to funds being misused by the RNLI without providing any information :roll:
All in good time my friend, firstly why you getting all excited about this ?And can you answer my previous question.
Warrior ,this wouldnt happen to be the letter that was sent to all the Lifeboat stations in Scotland and if it was i have seen it and yes i was appaulled to learn of the goings on at this station involved .Even more the person involved in all the activities was never disciplined for it, all hush hush for pr reasons i would think so scotsboy get down off your high horse and settle.I know what the crack is. PM me warrior if you wish to discuss further could make good reading in the papers.
High horse eh :roll:
The station involved wouldn't happen to be in NI would it? The claims wouldn't revolve around sectarianism would they? However unpalatable it may seem, it does not tarnish the RNLI as a whole but only seems to be within NI and then only at one Lifeboat station.
I am very aware of the situation in NI and am also aware that the social and political climate is totally different to elsewhere in the UK. If you really think this is worth besmirching the name of the RNLI over then fair play – I would need a lot more convincing. I am aware of far more significant abuses of tax payers money – the salaries paid to Adams and McGuiness for a start.
I have read the website you highlighted; again this is far from objective in its approach to delivering information.
I would welcome more details if you have them.
As stated scotsboy ,warrior said it was a scottish Station not Irish .You Speculate far to much and really have no idea what is happening out there within the Institution.Why is there 5 court cases on going against the R.N.L.I ?Why is the whole institution run by Ex servicemen? whom think they are still in the services and never dealt with a Civilian workforce before believe me i should know i am in the R.N.L.I.! Are you?or have you ever been?Whats your interest ?
Well if the information was presented we could discuss - so far nothing has been presented. The site WARRIOR posted relates to an RNLI station in Northern Ireland.
Do I have to be a memeber of the RNLI to have an interest? Lets say I am a stakeholder ;)
By the way I served on the British Tamar ;)
The site warrior mentioned is just 1 example of whats going on through out the country .How about for starters being paid 20k+ a year to be a Mechanic at a station to maintain a boat and equipment but instead he is more interested in running his own engineering business .How about taking money from his 2nd and 3rd mech because he had put their name down for cover but actually did the cover himself but split the payment half to himself as the 2nd & 3rd thought it was the thing that was done.
So your a donator to the R.N.L.I ?The lack of maintenance actually caused problems out on a shout .
Taymar, however shocking and unfair the incident you descibe is - it does not mean that the institution as a whole is failing - or does it?
I am not a regular contributer to the RNLI, and not a member (although I gather that all you need to do to ebcome a member is donate a fixed sum per annum). I take it you are a volunteer and I take my hat off to you. I am an ex-Merchant Seaman, with close ties to the sea.
My position is that there are always a few rotten apples in every barrel - the RNLI will be no exception, but it is still a fantastic organization.
Taymar you have been busy and yes it is the letter in question.I will pm you and get in touch and discuss further as i have other guys from other stations not happy about what this person has been up to or the lack of control over it and dicsipline.
Yes i think they are failing as this should never of happened and was brought to their attention a while ago. it also looks ike there is a law for 1 and a law for others and to be honest the R.N.L.I has no respect for crews believe me.Mike Vlasto once said the R.N.L.I WILL NOT BE BULLIED by anyone .Not even the views of crews count.
If that is the case then it is a sad, sad day. Without those willing to put everything on the line what do they have?
Yes it is very sad and disappointing but they aint interested .Letters have been sent by various supporters and business who support the R.N.L.I to ask questions and they dont even have the decency to reply so quite a few large organisations i deal with have withdrawn all support.
Glad to hear it they dont deserve the support they get.Not good to say i know but the way they treat people is a disgarce
If only people knew the whole goings on !!!!!!!!!!!! Crews really deserve to be traeted far better.
postman pat
16-May-05, 17:17
I hear there is trouble at fraserburgh,the inspector sacked one of the crew ,who is going to a tribunal ,but the rnli want to keep it hush hush ,so they have offered some cash.
The crewman is right to go to a tribunal if he has done nothing wrong. :D
There are other bigger promblems at fraserburgh like the unauthorised female a girlfriend of one of the crew found on the boat on the way to a shout.What they had been up to is anyones guess.
This was hidden and tried to be cover up but i seen it as i was on the quay.
The rnli has two standard in the way they treat people depending if you are ex navy or what lodge you belong to.
the rank and file members of the crew do a great job but the management need to get things sorted out. [mad]
Oh yes you are so right about all these goings on but whats been done? Nothing ! Its all hush hush, disgusting!
Postman pat do you have anymore info you can share with us and any contacts that would be interested in these issues
George Brims
17-May-05, 00:29
To go right back to the original post - when did the RNLI start getting public money? Last I heard it was still a charity. As a charity I can understand a certain amount of "sweeping under the carpet" as charitable donations are extremely sensitive to public opinion. Of course if that's taken to extremes and it explodes into an even bigger scandal, it only makes things worse.
yes it is a charity so it is using the publics money you and i donate so its public money !sorry for the misunderstanding .They are always shouting for money now ,at1 time they had so much money they were at risk at losing there charity status .No money left now as they have so much pen pushers at HQ someone in charge of fotos is probably on 25k a year!Every station now has a full time Coxswain and Mechanic earning 20-25K per year.Why ! It worked perfectly well for the past 100 years so why the extra expense.90%of the time is spent sitting about doing sweet FA as there is nothing else to do.Expense for nothing.
Trouble all over the place mostly brought on by the institutions arrogant attitude towards EMPLOYEES.Yes employees not everyone is a volunteer !
Well done to the Guys in Thurso and Longhope on being recognised for their bravery.
banana_man
18-May-05, 21:00
I agree with what warrior says. The views of the crew members count for nothing. Despite an entire crew making a personal appeal on behalf of a fellow crew member, Mike Vlasto, head of operations, actually told both a crew member and a crew representative that he COULD NOT CARE LESS what the crew wanted. He stated that the RNLI would not be dictated to and that he alone would be making the decisions.
How arrogant do you have to be to make such decisions when you have absolutely no knowledge of the history, or culture, or background of the area in question? To him the lifeboat station is a mere red dote on a RNLI map!!!!
Banana Man you know more than me tut tut.
postman pat
20-May-05, 20:38
I know for a fact the rnli inspector looked at this site in aberdeen and stiill nothing happens to the crew member in fraserburgh that was sacked without due cause. :~(
Yet nothing happens to someone who takes part in se???? realtions on the lifeboat at fraserburgh and got caught out as the boat was called to a shout. :confused
Yes i heard about that and the crew were all witnesses to it to when she popped her head out of the wheel house about 2 miles out to sea on way to a boat fire.Disgraceful! But what happens to this person absolutely nothing! What hold has this guy over the R.N.L.I .?I know for a fact this guy was on the verge of being suspended 1 afternoon as another mechanic was called in from south but at the last minute the suspension was called off Why ? [mad]
Look out for the original letter of complaint sent to the Inspector for Scotland about goings on at this station,should be on Wednesday night i think.Nothing was done about it and it was all proven to be true after the investigation.
Cant wait to see this letter.This is the same letter every lifeboat station in scotland got.
Shame on the rnli for not taking action over it ,the actions of the crew member were bad and in poor taste to say the least. [lol]
banana_man
24-May-05, 17:47
NEVER FEAR.... BANANA MAN IS HERE!!!!
No need to wait until Wednesday night folks..... Banana Man has in his possession a copy of THE letter!!!
Stay tuned for a posting of what we've ALL been waiting for later tonight!!!!!
The rnli has double standards :evil a wick man was refused onto the crew as he was colour blind yet in Fraserburgh a man got onto the crew Double standards i say [mad].
But of couse if you use two doctors to sign forms it makes a surprise the outcome of the eyesight test.
banana_man
24-May-05, 20:45
As promised..... enjoy!
16th September, 2004
Dear John Caldwell,
It is with deep regret that I find myself committing myself to paper but I now find myself in the position that I have no alternative.
As you are aware for many months now the crew have been experiencing considerable problems regarding the behaviour and conduct of ----- -------. During this time I have verbally advised Perth about what has been going on as has the Coxswain and other members of staff.
During this time the Coxswain and the crew that for the good of the Station and everyone concerned made a conscious decision that all official complaints would be put on hold and not lodged at the time. Others and I naively thought that you could deal with the matter in house, without publicity and that all grievances could be aired, discussed and resolved and we would all get on with the aim of the RNLI and do our jobs.
Everyone was disappointed when no such discussions took place. I understand there was a meeting with ----, -----, and --- ------- as ---- made it clear to us what was expected from us and a way forward, we all kept to it but it only lasted a week or so and then ----- started getting worse and worse. My crewmates and I were aware that ----- continually contacted your office on a daily basis being malicious and untruthful but no one seemed to have any consideration about the rest of the crew.
When I joined the boat I was delighted when I was accepted as a crewman and as far as I was concerned that was all I wanted to be at the time.
After a period of time I was approached by ----- and asked if I wanted to follow the mechanics side of things as I already had the background for it. I had no visions of grandeurs and was aware that given -----‘s social interests he was having problems getting people to relieve and he needed another mechanic in name.
At that time I learned that ----- had never trained any mechanics and one in particular had been a mechanic for over 5 years and had not changed a fuel or oil filter in all that time. I was aware at this time I was basically a mechanic in name only so that ----- could get time off.
When I decided that I would like to go down that road on the mechanical side ----- approached me and advised me of the practices that he had adopted locally. He advised that if I were to stand in for him for long periods of time such as holidays I would be officially recorded as being on duty that period, if ----- was not going away anywhere any payments which I was given should be handed over to him as would attend any shouts and the like.
When I joined the RNLI at no time did money ever come into my head and to be frank over the years it has cost me more being in the RNLI than out of it. ----- related that this was a standard thing as far as the mechanics were concerned on his boat. We are speaking about ₤3000 to ₤4000over the duration before I finally put a stop to it.
After I put a stop to it I found out that ----- had approached another mechanic with the same story but was told in no uncertain terms that he would not be handing over any money to -----. It goes without saying that the mechanic got no stand in duty for -----.
I am also aware that ----- approached the Coxswain ---- ----- and told him that he should come to some similar arrangements with the coxswains. The coxswain was outraged at what had been going on and ----- was advised accordingly.
As time passed, which can be confirmed by the coxswain and my crewmates, I spent many hours alone with the manuals in the engine room. I am self-taught.
During this time I obviously became more competent and started to achieve and receive qualifications. I said nothing but ----- realized what was happening and thereafter professed to all outsider including Perth how well he was training me. The entire
----------- crew knew different.
Further along the line I worked very hard and obtained even more qualifications and latterly ended up with the same as -----.
I can say that for the three years leading up to this achievement I was -----‘s best friend, a protégé as he often told me and others.
It was only after I qualified and the obvious good relations I had with my crewmates that ----- started to become more intensely jealous and that is when all the problems started and ----- made it clear he was going to get rid of me.
During this time ----- refused to train any of the other mechanics. He also mad his feelings very clear about the C.B.T and took every chance he could to make a fool out of ---- -------- to all the crew and to be frank if it had not been for ---- ----- I do not believe training would ever have got started in ----------- but ----- made sure ---- suffered for it. The two other mechanics turned to me, as did the crew to train them on this side as you are aware it was not my place but ----- agreed I could train some and he would train the others. It was not long before the 3rd mechanic came and asked if he could train with us as ----- wouldn’t do it.
On the eve of a particular assessment by ---- ------- I was approached by some of -----‘s trainees. I was told that ----- had spent most of their time talking about himself with very little training and they were not sure about the assessment. I then asked and was granted permission to train them. I spent hours with the crew on the day and night prior to the assessment going through the various tasks. Incidentally everyone passed.
Although the full time mechanic up until late January of this year ----- was never at the station and spent all of his time building up and running his business at T.S.Engineering. It was only when he knew that staff from Perth were calling at the shed that ----- would appear and then leave as soon as they had gone. ----- was not putting in more than six hours per week, all the crew were taking notice of this along with members of the public. It is my belief that it was a member of the public who complained to ------- and forced him to take action even so ----- still walked off with over twenty thousand pounds and did nothing for it.
-----‘s planned maintenance comprised of bragging to crewmembers who were present and ticking the appropriate boxes without carrying out the work. He would boast that he had the Peth staff in his pocket as he had made parts for their lathe that he had never been paid for also bikes plus one senior member of staff had been demoted due to his letter to Poole so Perth would never try to make him toe the line not with his twenty odd years service as he knows people in higher places than Perth. [I will not put names in here as I have no wish to embarrass anyone] He got away with it for a long time but there were instances, which would have proofed his undoing if it were not for myself and other crewmembers.
The first was on a service we were put across onto a fishing boat that was sinking. When we started pumping her out there were no Orings in the hoses and we had water everywhere but not over the side. The spares that should have been on the hose bag were missing. We got rags from the fishermen and managed to control the flow. The second was when we started up the GS pump the prop screws had fallen out so there was no drive. ----- made an excuse that the bolts had sheared but they hadn’t. I was there.
The third was a fuel leak by the stb filters on the pipework, there were a few ltrs had gone into the bilges. There was already at least two gallons of oil in the bilge which ------- had told me to leave for ----- to clean. When ----- came down I told him and he said that he would take care of it tomorrow as he had a hot date with ----/---. I felt it couldn’t wait so I fixed it and washed out the bilges and then let ------- know what I had done.
-----‘s behaviour towards myself and other crew members became worse.
I was at work when I was approached by my employers who had received information that I was working for the RNLI whilst I was on duty in my own job. I was suspended for six weeks whilst an investigation was carried out. Unfortunately the council would not give me written confirmation but left me in no doubt that the source of the information was -----.
----- has freely admitted to another crewman that it was him that made the allegation and that his hidden agenda was to rid the RNLI of the Hon Sec. Coxswain, me and the other mechanics.
During this time I received an unexpected visit from an inspector of the RSPB who had received a report that I was catching and breeding wild birds. I keep exotic parrots and have done for many years. I invited the inspector to view my various aviaries and parrot collection. The inspector was very impressed but highly embarrassed. He advised me that the call was obviously false and malicious.
I was then contacted by the Inland Revenue who had received a complaint that I was running a business abd involved in the sale, purchase and breeding of very expensive exotic birds. I met with the tax people and showed them all my financial records and gave them all the information they asked for. The result was as expected that they had been provided with false and malicious information and they were taking no further action. I asked but the Inland Revenue as a matter of procedure would not disclose the source of their information but they did not disagree when I put -----‘s name to them, It goes without saying the stress, which ----- has caused to my wife, my children and me.
When we tried to have a meeting with the view everything could be spoken about openly with ----- then things could get sorted out. ----- became very hostile and started on that it was three against one. This was not the case. All we wanted to do was clear the air and get on with the job.
During this time the crew became aware that ----- had approached the Press and was going to give them an exclusive about the RNLI. ----- had threatened to do this on previous occasions and it is well known that he did the same thing to one of his former wives. I will be frank, in order to take away his thunder I suggested that we put our grievances on hold so the press and ----- had nowhere to go with it.
In recent months as you are aware things have been strained between ----- and mysekf. This has been due to -----‘s behaviour towards me. The whole crew have taken notice of it, but at no time have I ever neglected my duties or refused to stand in for him as your records will show.
On one occasion, to give a flavour of his attitude and attitude, I was approached in the morning by -----. He advised me that his present girlfriend had suffered from cancer. He told me that she had been treated and cured some years previous. ----- then told me that he had just found out that it was suspected that his girlfriend was again suffering from the disease and had to undergo immediate tests that day. ----- stated that in view of the circumstances, although it was very short notice, he asked if I could stand in for him as he wished to go to the hospital to support and comfort his girlfriend. I immediately agreed despite what he had done to me and he left.
One hour later, the traveling time from ----------- to Aberdeen, ----- appeared at Aberdeen lifeboat station. ----- then had to fill in a bit of time because his girlfriend was at the beauticians having a manicure. I don’t think O need to say anything else.
As you are aware, prior to being spoken to, ----- often took the chance to go off station in the hope there would not be a shout and he would not be needed for anything else. He would be in Aberdeen when everyone thought he was in -----------. I hate to think how many times I have stood in for ----- and never knew.
-----, as mechanic, is naturally authorised to purchase any tools and equipment locally when required. When doing this it is normal practice for ----- to purchase these items and then invoice them through his own company with an additional 10% handling charge. I assume this is normal business practices, acceptable to the RNLI although in my book it is morally wrong.
On the last such purchase, a batt-drill, ----- adopted his normal procedure. However it was noted that an additional tool, not connected with the lifeboat, had been obtained. ----- explained that this was a free gift as a result of purchasing the drill. The tool was a gauge, which ----- took away to use in connection with his engineering business.
It was then established that the free gift was in fact a 6” ruler. The gauge cost the RNLI ₤25.00, which was invoiced to T.S.Enginnering, 10% added and passed onto the RNLI. The matter was brought to the attention of -----. The gaige suddenly reappeared at the shed for lifeboat use. I am confident that no other Lifeboat Station has such an instrument.
----- leads a very colourful social life, which is obviously his own business. However when it comes to entertaining women on the lifeboat and having sexual intercourse I think it becomes everybody else’s business. This was the same girlfriend that ----- took out on a service shout. They were already on the boat when the pagers went off. We were approximately three miles out when we found her aboard. The crew list had been passed and her name was never given. There was nothing to be done but carry on as we didn’t have time to go back with her and at the time we thought we were going out to a boat on fire.
I was deeply hurt when I received your letter and was notified that I was going to be the subject of a formal meeting, having been accused of bringing the RNLI into disrepute. The Coxswain, my crewmates and others from the lifeboat family were astonished.
I responded to your letter in good faith, acknowledging that I would attend the formal meeting but as is normal procedure I enquired who was to be present. I was totally shocked when you advised me that amongst the company was Mr ---- ---- of ------------- council, a representative of my employer. It is common knowledge that there were issues between us after Mr ---- had acted on information received from -----, which are being dealt with by my union and legal representation. I will not go into these matters but suffice to say my solicitor and union were advised and the matter was resolved.
In view of this, an immediate complaint has been made on my behalf by my representation to ------------- Council.
In view of your letter I immediately contacted your office. As you were not available I advised ---- ------- that under the circumstances I would not be attending the meeting.
I received a further call from ---- ---- and was told that I had misread your letter. Mr ---- told me that ------------- Council had not approached the RNLI and requested that they attend our meeting but it was you, Mr Caldwell, who approached Mr ---- and requested his attendance.
Mr ---- further advised m that it was your intension that Mr ---- would not actually be in the meeting but would be standing by in a nearby portacabin. The purpose of him being there was incase you wanted to call him as a witness regarding statements he was in possession of from other crewmen. I am most confused, as I know you have these statements and you were going to speak to the crew yourself. There were four statements given yet you only want two.
I have now had the opportunity to speak with the full time GMB official and Mr Paul Quade of Digby Brown solicitors and have been advised to request a postponement of your formal meeting on the 23rd due to legal implications as it appears that I am also an employee of the RNLI and should enjoy the same rights as Mr -------.
I am not familiar with any of the RNLI disciplinary procedures, or exactly what a formal meeting entails. It is my understanding from you letter, that my employment with the RNLI may be terminated. This being the case I feel that I should be given the opportunity to view all of the paperwork and the complete case so that I have an equal and fair opportunity to defend and if necessary have appropriate representation.
I fully accept that the allegations that I have made against Mr ------- are very serious however unlike the malicious complaints he has been making against me, I am perfectly open in what I am saying and will provide you with all the names if the persons who can corroborate and substantiate what I have said. I am sure the crew can come forward with other facts of how they have been treated at the hands of Mr -------.
I now wish to make an official complaint regarding the behaviour and conduct of Mr ----- ------- towards me on a personal level and also as an employee of the RNLI.
Yours sincerely,
Mr ---- ----
RESULT
It was confirmed by ------------- council, Poole and Perth that Mr ------- had contacted
------------- council on a number of occasions both verbally and in writing in an attempt to have Mr ---- dismissed by both ------------- council and the RNLI.
Enquiry was made into the allegations and the investigator suspended Mr ------- doe to the seriousness of these matters. Higher management immediately revoked the suspension and Mr ------- was allowed to continue to work duing the investigation.
During the investigation, although selected witnesses were interviewed, all allegations, with that exception of the allegation relating to “planned maintenance” was substantiated and addressed. It was felt that in relation to the allegation regarding planned maintenance there was insufficient evidence.
Mr ------- subsequently attended a discipline hearing where he made various admissions. He was reprimanded and advised to behave for the next nine months when he would receive severance pay in the region of ₤40,000 and a pension.
It is know by a number of members of the lifeboat family that over the years Mr ------- has openly bragged that he in untouchable as he holds very sensitive information relating to persons who occupy high positions in both Poole and Perth. It would appear for once Mr ------- was telling the truth.
In general the many people who support the Institute and the hard working fundraisers will be heartened to know that they are financing a corrupt, malingering individual whose only interest is in himself.
What a story. I am surprised there hasn't been violence as well. If somebody kept trying to set me up like that, I wouldn't be responsable for my actions.
Has there been any press interest in this story?
If not maybe about time there was, so the deadwood could get their books.
To go right back to the original post - when did the RNLI start getting public money? Last I heard it was still a charity. As a charity I can understand a certain amount of "sweeping under the carpet" as charitable donations are extremely sensitive to public opinion. Of course if that's taken to extremes and it explodes into an even bigger scandal, it only makes things worse.
Spot on, George - RNLI has resisted the suggestion to become a government service for years because they perceive that they will have less funding and more interference than remaining as a charity. I bet the fire service and ambulance service wish they had the status and funding that the RNLI had!
As for Warrior's thread.......... If you have something to say - just say it, don't resort to tantalising like some cheap tabloid "story-teller". If you don't want to support the RNLI - it is simple.......don't donate any money. ( I don't suppose they were delaying purchasing their next boat waiting for the donation, in any case).
This thread has a distinct feel to it, it is as if it was started by the twisted petrol pump owner and the dejected historian. If you people have real feelings about this subject why dont you put your real names to your posts?
oh how wrong you are goldfish,lok at some of your crew before you make statements.
Goldfish ,why dont you put your real name on here if you feel so strongly about things eh?Yes you are so wrong!Look to the start before you start accusing others .Maybe the government should be involved and remove the charity status of the R.N.L.I due to the way they spend old folks money. [mad]
Scotsboy you got any comments?
Mareng got you interested though and i wonder how many people you have told eh?I would say your better than a tabloid .
postman pat
26-May-05, 15:23
This thread has a distinct feel to it, it is as if it was started by the twisted petrol pump owner and the dejected historian. If you people have real feelings about this subject why dont you put your real names to your posts?
:lol:
bandite Posted
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oh how wrong you are goldfish,lok at some of your crew before you make statements.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
which and who's crew you talking about now .is this an other lifeboat crew your talking about bandite
KEEP_ON_TRUCKIN
27-May-05, 13:58
hey , i dont know much about rnli and so wont make judegments especially dsince everyone in this thread seems to be part of a crew or involved but to me.... in my humble opinion,
reading the thread the whole way through - the initial posts were a bit harsh disreputing the WHOLE of the RNLI, surely not all statations have people who behave in this way ? surely the onus should be a particualr guy and his activities at a particular station?
this is just a note out of interest and i do not hold a strong opinion in any shape or form im just quite interested- and that was one mother o a letter like!!
To be honest I don’t think much about it at all Warrior. Your initial post related to the misuse of funds by the RNLI. I responded by saying that I thought the RNLI did a fantastic job to which you responded:
No the guys that man the boats do a magnificent job not the people that run R.N.L.I.
But the scandal seems to involve those who actually man the boats or one particular individual at one particular station – I hardly think this is representative of the organization as a whole. Of course the letter appears to very damning of the individual concerned, interesting that the author throughout the letter refers to these practices being acknowledged by the rest of the crew, but the letter appears to be only signed by one individual.
As unpalatable and unpleasant as the allegations in the letter are, they still seem to relate only to one individual at one station and in now way indicate that these practices are endemic throughout the organization.
The action taken may be hard to swallow, but I am probably in the Homer Simpson “two wrongs make a right” club on this one, when I say much bigger scandals have occurred when the perpetrators have been rewarded much more highly. Sorry, I can’t get excited by it and it smacks of tabloid tittle tattle.
Strange that the R.N.L.I have been on the radio begging for money all week after this letter getting out !
They also were sending out letters to get money.If less was spent on Hotels for cover when coxswains are suspened they would have plenty cash. Dangerous of Buckie makes a good living out of this. :eyes
Ay and the inspectors and their wifes!Expenses must be huge on a monthly basis for all this.The guy in Thurso that donates all year round cant even get in to the hall for a cup of tea after the naming ceromy but all the punters from souh are up living it up in the hotels at our expense [mad]
Scotsboy, I must say that i agree with your reading of the situation. I only stumbled across this item today and have read all the posts. Looks to me that this is being run by 2 or 3 people that have decided to try to stir trouble for the R.N.L.I. for their own agendas. Whereas I agree that it is a pretty bad situation for this individual the letter is about, you cannot tarnish the whole of the RNLI with it.
I looked up info on them this afternoon and reckon there is over 4000 crew around the coast, if you look at ANY business that size i'm sure you would find a bad apple and as the crew of the rnli are human beings like the rest of us, there are bound to be one or two hidden in there too.
All in all I think they do a great job and deserve support for the job they do.
Of course they all do a great job but why cant those at the top recognise this? Until you know how the institution works there is no point debating!
So i'm not allowed an opinion?. I don't really think that is what these forums are about!! It is obvious from the posts that YOU are one of the people I refer to. I wouldn't mind betting that you are not even on a crew, more likely an ex crew with a gripe that has got together with someone else to stir things.
I still stand by what I say. Any organisation that size is bound to have problems from time to time. I take what you say about the apparent lack ofaction, but really don't want to go there as I only have your side of the story to go by.
I sure wont stop putting money in their boxes because of this tittle tattle that you have come up with.
[lol] [lol] [lol] [lol] Great stuff glad to hear it.You have no clue!
OK Warrior you consider the "handout" to the individual from the Broch to be a waste of "public" (even when it is private) money. But have you considered the alterantives and how much they will cost? If they just terminated his employment, do you think that there would not be recourse for him to gain more funds and for the RNLI to incur greater costs?
You may not like this decision, but I think that the bigger picture has to be considered.
You and i are the public!This is costing them dearly as they are already in court with 5 other unfair dismissal claims due to their lack of knowledge of employment law. They have already tried to pay off some of these guys ,as they know they are in the wrong ,but all these guys want is to be reinstated in to the jobs that they joined up to do.All these guys did was stand up for what they thought was right but those at the top didnt like this as Mike Vlasto Operations Director said we will not be bullied!Hows about the guys they have bullied out of the R.N.L.I
Once again warrior you are being called an ex with a gripe :D :D
Must be something about the way you tell it!!!
Dear dear Warrior, do I detect a touch of anger because someone doesn't agree with your views. You are entitled to yours, but equally others are entitled to theirs!
Well said Pie2000 . It becomes more and more obvious with Warriors posts what is actually going on here. I'll say it again ANY organisation dealing with so many people as the rnli does is bound to have personnel problems from time to time and this comes as no surprise in this day and age.
Sorry Warrior but you are getting very boring!!
Cheers joey they are my thoughts exactly.
Mareng got you interested though and i wonder how many people you have told eh?I would say your better than a tabloid .
Nope - skimmed through your posts and told no-one. Sorry to burst your bubble.
Former Crew
02-Jun-05, 13:03
High horse eh :roll:
The station involved wouldn't happen to be in NI would it? The claims wouldn't revolve around sectarianism would they? However unpalatable it may seem, it does not tarnish the RNLI as a whole but only seems to be within NI and then only at one Lifeboat station.
I have read the website you highlighted; again this is far from objective in its approach to delivering information.
I would welcome more details if you have them.
Hi scotsboy..
What further details would you like?
I take exception to your statement and I suggest that you read the info at:
http://www.rnli2000.co.uk/newspaper/mob15122004.htm
I am a former crew member of the Newcastle station and this dispute has nothing to do whatsoever with religion or the like. Its down to pure and simple bad management.
Thanks to you we now know that this story is indeed being bantied about.We have our suspicions as to the source of the sectarian story being passed about (not by yourself I hasten to add) and have challenged the RNLI on it. Their arrogance was unbelievable. A number of key MLA's (both sides) couldn't believe the arrogance of the RNLI inspectors in the way they were handling the dispute. The RNLI finally had to make a public statement on the sectarian issue as it was becoming a hot potato for them. They knew that the dispute had nothing to do with sectarianism. Legal action is pending regarding the suspected source of the story.
As a former crew member, my colleague and I still fully support the crews and certain RNLI personnel (Instructors, Engineering, Admin etc) in what they do as they do a fantastic job and we won't take that away from them but we don't support the bullyboy tactics that have gone unchecked. All that was wrong with the Newcastle station was that the management (Both Local and Divisional) didn't have the b*lls to stand up to the coxswain in the way he treated personnel within the station. Why? That is unknown at present but there is speculation and it will be interesting to see what happens
We never questioned the coxswain professional ability - just his lack of man management skills. Management were aware of the crews feeling and what was going on within the station for years but everything was covered up. The coxswain was good at manipulating the station personnel to the point that whilst everyone respected each other in terms of their professional ability, none could fully trust each other as you were either categorised as a 'M*****'s (LOM) man or a 'M*****'s man (coxn). If you weren't a coxn's man, life was made difficult. One of the initial igniters to this whole dispute was the resignation of the Training Co-Ordinator and the Duputy coxswain.
A secret meeting between these 2 crew members and an inspector was held at another lifeboat station (inspectors choice) to find out what had happened as there were serious questions being asked. Initial reported suggested that the inspectors was dumbfounded. One of thes 2 crew members was also a Vellum award winner - Then again, the Achill Island coxswain was a Gold medal winner. Look what they did to him (also on website) Nothing was done about it as far as the crew were concerned and when the inspectors was challenged about why nothing was done, he said that it wasn't the done thing to undermine the role of the coxswain in front of his crew.
Boll**ks!!
If the had let the crew know that the coswain and hon Sec had been spoken to in relation the the depth of feeling of crew, things may have been different. Such was the inspectors arrogance they didn't even think the crew knew about the coxswain verbally abused the training coordinator and forcing him to resign from the post. One inspector nearly had heart failure when one of the crew relayed exactly what was said by the coxswain to the affected crewmember.
One member of the management team (sadly deceased) did have the ba*lls to ask why 2 'valued' members of staff felt compelled to resign totally from the station. He didn't buy the seasickness story.
The straw that broke the camel back was when the coxswain tried to instigate a complaint; using a former crewmember who he didn't even like; on the 2nd coxswain over an alleged incident . The former member was a bit concerned about the way he was being asked to make the complaint and consulted another member on what to do. When everything came to light, all hell broke loose.
Give the depth of feeling and the info the RNLi inspectors had from members (current and former at the time) on how things were run at the station, I genuinely expected the RNLI to gather us all together around the table and trash out our concerns and grievances. Unfortunately that didn't happen. The coxswain actually resigned 'for the good of the station' and things - even though a little strained - started to get back to some sort of normality but then we were hit with a bombshell from a member of HQ staff that were either except Mr M***** as or coxswain or 'There's the door'
This resulted in the current tribunal case. We didn't want to go here. All we wanted was fair play. Yes, I agree with you Scotsboy that all workplaces have problem but they usually try to sort them out by getting everyone together to resolve it - Not issuing an ultimatum and being arrogant towards one side.
What we also found out at the tribual was that the coxswain tried to retract his resignation letter but the inspectors refused which to us validated grievances put to the inspectors. This was also a point made by our QC. Someone though in higher authority overrode the inspectors decision hence the ultimatum issed to the crew. Its all up when an inspectors decision is also overruled by someone else further up the chain. Why was that so???
Yes, you can't tar the whole organisation for the actions of others but unfortunately, its the tremendous work being done by others that is being undermined by arrogant management.
Its the arrogance - if left unchecked; that is the cause of many problems within the RNLI. Yes, it still pangs me when I see the lifeboat going out on a shout or exercise but I know that the stance I took was in my eyes the correct one. Someone had to made a stand for present crews and future crews otherwsie the good work of RNLI personnel will unfold. Unfortunately, you are not dealing with some rational people in the management ranks of the RNLI and they just do as they want irrespect of the facts.
Former Member
Newcastle Lifeboat Station
Former crew I know nothing fo the details at Newcastle - I just scanned the website and saw that it mentioned the "s" word. If you live or have lived in that part of the world it does tend to spring up now and again.
Former Crew
03-Jun-05, 09:48
Former crew I know nothing fo the details at Newcastle - I just scanned the website and saw that it mentioned the "s" word. If you live or have lived in that part of the world it does tend to spring up now and again.
Fair enough comment but do you think that had you read some of the info on the site, you would have made the same statement.
The Newcastle station is actually mixed and the former crew who walked out in protest was also mixed. As I stated, we have our suspicions as to the source of the sectarian story. We have been told by a number of people who it originated from but they won't publically say to protect themselves and I totally respect that due to the individual concerned.
We know that it was a smokescreen to try and take the heat of the RNLI because of the mess they made of the whole scenario. Later on they had to make a public statement denying that the dispute had anything to do with religion.
The next few weeks should be interesting. It could go either way at the Tribunal hearing.
Former Crew
[lol] [lol] Everybody has an opinion right enough,but warrior is right with everything he has said!Joe public doesnt see the other side of the R.N.L.I :evil .The guys on the boats do a great job nobody is saying they dont,so why does the R.N.L.I treat crews the way they do? after all if it wasnt for them then R.N.L.I would not exist . [disgust]
Fair enough comment but do you think that had you read some of the info on the site, you would have made the same statement.
I did read the site - I asked questions rather than make statements, if you check back.
Hi folks – I’ve had a quick look at all this and it doesn’t make any sense to me?????
Does this have anything to do with the RNLI here in Caithness????? Maybe (most probably) I’m thick but I don’t understand it all, seems that some of you know what/who you are on about without naming any names, just seems a bit odd to have such a debate if it has nothing to do with this area?????????
Sorry – I enjoy reading all the stuff in the message board – but I’d enjoy it more if I understood what the heck you were all on about... I’m very confused
Former Crew
03-Jun-05, 20:53
Hi folks – I’ve had a quick look at all this and it doesn’t make any sense to me?????
Does this have anything to do with the RNLI here in Caithness????? Maybe (most probably) I’m thick but I don’t understand it all, seems that some of you know what/who you are on about without naming any names, just seems a bit odd to have such a debate if it has nothing to do with this area?????????
Sorry – I enjoy reading all the stuff in the message board – but I’d enjoy it more if I understood what the heck you were all on about... I’m very confused
Hi KAT1E.
Its a general(ish) discussion about the RNLI and how some of its funding is used. As you can see, there are two side to the story. Good side is the stirling work that the majority of the RNLI personnel do. Bad(ish) side is the arrogance of management on how they treat their personnel if they don't abide by their rule irrespect as to whether they are right or wrong.
I have had personnal experience of their arrogance and unfortunately, it is tainting the reputation of the RNLI becasue people are taking an interest in the current state of affairs within the RNLI and where their money is going. People didn't throw money into the boxes for it to be used in fighting Tribunal cases - Yes, there could be geniune cases where money may need to be spent but not in cases where the odds are stacked against the RNLI.
Did you read the article about Frazerburgh?
It may be that your local station may be having problems with Management or a member of staff and nothing is being done about it. You may also find that your local station is running fine and dandy and long may it last but there are stations where crews are being given a hard time by thoughts further up the ladder and think that they are invincible.
Does that make things any clearer?
Former Crew
Hi folks – I’ve had a quick look at all this and it doesn’t make any sense to me?????
Does this have anything to do with the RNLI here in Caithness????? Maybe (most probably) I’m thick but I don’t understand it all, seems that some of you know what/who you are on about without naming any names, just seems a bit odd to have such a debate if it has nothing to do with this area?????????
Sorry – I enjoy reading all the stuff in the message board – but I’d enjoy it more if I understood what the heck you were all on about... I’m very confused
This has to do with lifeboat stations everywhere the way the crews are getting treated by the inspectors and others at poole. [lol]
Very true bandite [disgust]
Hi Former Crew
Thank you very much for explaining it to me – it’s much clearer now.
I can see the points now. Who all get paid for working with the RNLI????? I’d always assumed that it was a charity and that all the crew (bar one) were voluntary (but I’d assume that they would get something for their time during call-outs)?????
The RNLI in general do an excellent job, but my view (after reading this) is that the current management need a good shake up, they need to review their policies and terminate the employment of those who are giving the charity a bad name (paid staff and inspectors who are at fault). Why can’t they send a survey to all voluntary staff/members to get a better insight into all of these matters (it would be cheaper, more thorough and probably better than any management investigations)?????
Former Crew
06-Jun-05, 12:29
Hi Former Crew
Thank you very much for explaining it to me – it’s much clearer now.
I can see the points now. Who all get paid for working with the RNLI????? I’d always assumed that it was a charity and that all the crew (bar one) were voluntary (but I’d assume that they would get something for their time during call-outs)?????
The RNLI in general do an excellent job, but my view (after reading this) is that the current management need a good shake up, they need to review their policies and terminate the employment of those who are giving the charity a bad name (paid staff and inspectors who are at fault). Why can’t they send a survey to all voluntary staff/members to get a better insight into all of these matters (it would be cheaper, more thorough and probably better than any management investigations)?????
Hi KAT1E
A survey? Are ya joking. If they did that then the majority would indeed be ousted.
Its the arrogance and the fact that they preceive themselves to be untouchable due to their charity status. The government won't really get involved because as far as they are concerned, they're getting of the hook in having to fund a rescue service. Why should they fund one from public coffers when the people are funding a charity to provide this service for them.
I fully support the charity status. I've witnessed what the government has done to the Coastguard in terms of funding. The RNLI looks at the safety of its crews - Not how much it can save by buying substandard kit but unless it looks at the attitude of is management towards its personnel, people will get turned off joining - something I'd hate to see!
Former Crew
So you do know him !Ok crofter then.
YEAH ,,,, wot abt it .. why u asking
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