Scottish government commits to more compassionate social security system

[squidge]

This is good news and builds on the work that the Scottish Government has already done around the independent living fund and the bedroom tax. It means that, once DLA is eventually devolved the Scottish Government will scrap the rule that removes the payment of DLA after a Child has been in hospital for 84 days. Excellent news

http://news.scotland.gov.uk/News/Fairer-approach-to-disability-and-carer-benefits-1d4b.aspx

[BetterTogether]

Would that be the same as all the other things the SNP commit to but fail to deliver or are they actually going to do something more than blow hot air this time ?

The issue you mention while very commendable only deals with a tiny minority of the population when will the SNP start to deal with the bigger more wider ranging issues instead of tinkering with minor issues.

Maybe they should unfreeze the council tax instead of losing billions in a vote winning measure and actually do some good for society.

[rob murray]

This is good news and builds on the work that the Scottish Government has already done around the independent living fund and the bedroom tax. It means that, once DLA is eventually devolved the Scottish Government will scrap the rule that removes the payment of DLA after a Child has been in hospital for 84 days. Excellent news

http://news.scotland.gov.uk/News/Fairer-approach-to-disability-and-carer-benefits-1d4b.aspx

Yes thats putting to rights a genuine injustice and very well done, but a root and branch overhaul of the entire benefits system is needed...issue is all this "promises " for "fairness" needs paid for.....thats why we wont see anything of any real concequence from the snp as inevitably taxes will have to rise to pay for higher benefits and we scots wont like to fork out more in taxes eh ?? If so ...it will be a first

[BetterTogether]

Here you go Rob this is from the Help to Adapt scheme showing the SNPs real compassion and commitment to free care for the elderly.

[BetterTogether]

A bit more for your delectation

[BetterTogether]

And another bit. Nothing like taking a piece of the action a bit like a spiv really don't do anything just take a handling charge.

[rob murray]

And another bit. Nothing like taking a piece of the action a bit like a spiv really don't do anything just take a handling charge.

I dont get it, you mean they the government dont actuallly do anything but make a service charge ?

[rob murray]

Here you go Rob this is from the Help to Adapt scheme showing the SNPs real compassion and commitment to free care for the elderly.

Help to adapt : helping the edlerly adapt their homes....paid for from equity tied up in their homes...so they pay for it themselves and also pay a handling charge?? If thats the case its more sneaky double speak from the SNP. no doubt the squakers will be trumpeting how "compassionate" and fair they ( the SNP ) all are.....larceny thats what this is / sleight of hand stuff. All damn talk.... anti austerity..yeah yeah yeah as the song goes....wish theyd stop the pretence they are no more anti austerity than Nigel Farage is a euro fan !!!

[BetterTogether]

Summing it up nicely they take something which is a statutory requirement. Put in a middle man and loan shark them take a slice of the pie for themselves.

[cptdodger]

This was in the Dundee Courier today, - http://www.thecourier.co.uk/news/local/angus-the-mearns/frank-s-law-political-party-to-challenge-health-secretary-for-her-dundee-seat-1.901901


http://www.thecourier.co.uk/news/politics/first-minister-slammed-after-saying-she-is-unable-to-make-hard-and-fast-commitment-on-frank-s-law-1.901784

(http://www.thecourier.co.uk/news/local/angus-the-mearns/frank-s-law-political-party-to-challenge-health-secretary-for-her-dundee-seat-1.901901)

It is in regards to Frank Kopel, a former Dundee United player who was diagnosed with Dementia aged 59 and who sadly passed away last April.

[rob murray]

Summing it up nicely they take something which is a statutory requirement. Put in a middle man and loan shark them take a slice of the pie for themselves.

Yep how very fair and compassionate they are being to the elderly.......they could do the same with benefits, pay increased benefits but only to house owners and grab the dosh back with % from the equity......then use the handling charges to top up benfits of the work shy.....problem solved and they can make dosh to....ingenious stuff

[BetterTogether]

12% management fee ! £10,000 or work = £1200 fee ! Thanks very much.

[BetterTogether]

This was in the Dundee Courier today, - http://www.thecourier.co.uk/news/local/angus-the-mearns/frank-s-law-political-party-to-challenge-health-secretary-for-her-dundee-seat-1.901901It is in regards to Frank Kopel, a former Dundee United player who was diagnosed with Dementia aged 59 and who sadly passed away last April.Free healthcare but only if you're the right age for the illness you're suffering from otherwise it's no life jacket,no lifeboat fend for yourself.

[rob murray]

This was in the Dundee Courier today, - http://www.thecourier.co.uk/news/local/angus-the-mearns/frank-s-law-political-party-to-challenge-health-secretary-for-her-dundee-seat-1.901901

It is in regards to Frank Kopel, a former Dundee United player who was diagnosed with Dementia aged 59 and who sadly passed away last April.

A real united legend, sadly mistreated by another glaring and preventative loop hole in health care provision by the caring compassionate party......SNP....I hope robison gets the bloody boot...feckless uesless idiot...I cannot belive that time was spent in Holyrood discussing debating macaroni pies ....mind you thats about their level !!!

[rob murray]

Free healthcare but only if you're the right age for the illness you're suffering from otherwise it's no life jacket,no lifeboat fend for yourself.

What...your seriously telling me the caring compassionate party could let this happen...I cannot believe it !!! I mean Scotland ( as independant ) is going to be a fairere more equal compassionate and caring country.....aye hot bloody air.

[rob murray]

This is good news and builds on the work that the Scottish Government has already done around the independent living fund and the bedroom tax. It means that, once DLA is eventually devolved the Scottish Government will scrap the rule that removes the payment of DLA after a Child has been in hospital for 84 days. Excellent news

http://news.scotland.gov.uk/News/Fairer-approach-to-disability-and-carer-benefits-1d4b.aspx

Maybe youd like to explain Frank Kopels situation....see below....if you can ....a gross act of negligence....caring / compassionate.....aye thatll be right

[cptdodger]

I have added another link in regards to Nicola Sturgeon -

http://www.thecourier.co.uk/news/politics/first-minister-slammed-after-saying-she-is-unable-to-make-hard-and-fast-commitment-on-frank-s-law-1.901784

[BetterTogether]

I tend to ignore the recent batch of posts from a certain person as they tend to hide the reality of situations, toe the party line and in my view will probably be used in some future scramble to gain power. Someone is playing a long game so being disingenuous would be par for the course.

[rob murray]

I have added another link in regards to Nicola Sturgeon -

http://www.thecourier.co.uk/news/politics/first-minister-slammed-after-saying-she-is-unable-to-make-hard-and-fast-commitment-on-frank-s-law-1.901784

A shameless madam....she and robson have screwed up the NHS...she knows she needs money to rectify the situation = higher taxes which she hasn't the bottle to implement

[BetterTogether]

Reality is the SNP have deferred as much as they can but at some stage you have to stop deferring payments and putting things off and pay the bills. Holyrood and the Scottish Government has been in exsistence for 16yrs now 8 of which the SNP have been in power they can't keep blaming everyone else or previous parties for the problems now coming to the surface.

[squidge]

Sigh

Ok let's just rewind a little shall we. What BT has omitted to mention, Is that this is a pilot scheme designed to look at how households who do not meet the criteria for statutory council grants and the like can access support for adaptations. This is not replacing a statutory requirement as BT suggested but extending help to those who may be out with the statutory group but still require help. Those who are assessed as having a "priority need" will continue to receive grants and funding as necessary.

Help to Adapt is just one of several options which may be available to people and it is not designed to replace statutory schemes.

The management fee is included to cover the following -

A dedicated occupational therapist will work with you and your family members to advise on your particular options and recommend suitable adaptations.We work with you to specify what you want the alterations to look like, including the fittings and finishes.

Our team will organise all the home alteration work – saving you time and reducing potential anxiety, while ensuring quality standards by using our approved contractors to carry out the works.We will also continue to provide a service for up to a year after the alterations are made, to help you with any warranty or maintenance questions about the works or to advise on best use of the adaptation. Not exactly money for nothing.

BT is right - if the value of your property increases then you pay more back out of the equity on your house when it is sold. He forgot to mention that if the value of your property falls, the amount that is repaid also falls. He also fails to point out that there is no interest paid on the loan. It doesn't increase if it is in place for ten years as opposed to five for example. There are no monthly payments and there is a cap on the amount paid back.

This isn't some two bit outfit either - some dodgy middle man. Link is a housing association, a registered social landlord so there will be no dividends going in shareholders pockets. This is in addition to what exists already, not in place of. It is a pilot part of the work the Scottish Government is doing to widen the net of support.

There is of course a website you can look at, not sure whether BT included the link rather than screen shots www.linkhousing.org.uk

[BetterTogether]

Oh there was me thinking I was blocked ! First I am then I'm not then I am. Sounds like that type of beach footwear going on Flip Flop, Flip Flop. Not that I'd suggested anyone has been telling porkies as I'm sure any linkage to high serving conservatives would be frowned upon !!


Just remember folks all at mere 12% management fee from your everything is free SNP governement but only if you own a property if you don't then it's all Free Free Free totally free.

Also just to put your mind at ease its only a pilot scheme, so not everyone will suffer the punitive management charges just a select group.

Another fantastic pilot scheme remember those old favourites like the Poll tax !

[squidge]

Maybe youd like to explain Frank Kopels situation....see below....if you can ....a gross act of negligence....caring / compassionate.....aye thatll be right

Rob lol I'm not best pleased at having to go back and view BTs posts to see what you are talking about lol. He'll be complaining I'm not ignoring him enough if I'm not careful.

Probably the best way to deal with issues around this is probably to look at the issues mentioned in the courier article but it will be a lengthy response I'm afraid. It deserves one though.

Frank kopel's widow is right. At the time he became ill services were awful and in many places even today they are still problematic and it's not good enough. The situation Frank Kopel and his wife found themselves in is awful and sadly, not uncommon. However It's not as simple as just adding under 65s to the existing over 65s system. Giving under 65s free personal care can impact on benefits which are paid to under 65s and which over 65s aren't entitled to. These benefits may include money for personal care which may be removed if personal care is provided. If that happens then this may impact on disability premiums, council tax reductions and other passported benefits and would likely leave people worse off. In addition Carers Allowance is a pitiful amount. £62 a week - not even as much as Jobseekers Allowance. It's disgusting. The Smith commission has recommended that Carers Allowance and PIP be devolved but as we are still without the new powers outlined by Smith we have no option but to work with what we have. The Scottish government has already said that it would increase Carers Allowance to the level of JSA once it is devolved but we are still waiting. As the courier says these are the other issues.

System overhaul for dementia sufferers

There is a real need for an overhaul of dementia services. Much has already been done and dementia link workers and support workers in many areas do a good job. The Self Directed Support act (2013) gives power to dementia sufferers and their carers to get the support they want and I have seen this used particularly effectively with early onset dementia. But It is early days with SDS and we see all the time that social workers don't really understand the system properly yet and this causes immense frustration and real hardship. Rural areas also suffer from a lack of choice and part of that is down to the way we undervalue care services. Poor wages, poor working conditions, lack of training, poor career progression all make for a high turnover of staff and unfortunately a poor quality of care in far too many cases.

A new investigatory independent body set up to look into medical mistakes and negligence within the NHS in Scotland with powers to bring about criminal prosecutions where there is clear evidence of neglect.

We are seeing investigations in Highland and across Scotland and the Adult Support and protection act (2007) has set a legal responsibility to investigate where a concern is raised. There is training in this for carers coming to Wick in November I think. I don't know whether there is a need for an independent body but the NHS is not excluded from the provisions of the ASP act.

Subsidised parking to be introduced at Ninewells Hospital – charges are currently a “tax on the sick and staff”

It's bloody awful that people have to pay to park at these hospitals. I think there are three. Ninewells, ERI and one other I can't remember. We are lumbered with these charges as a result of Labours disastrous PFI contracts. I believe that there have been repeated attempts by the SG and the NHS boards to get the private companies to reduce or get rid of the charges but this has so far fallen on deaf ears. It's too lucrative for the private companies involved to give it up and contractually we are tied into it.

Bringing an end to all under-16s who are the main carers within a family

You can't do this. Families are families and they love each other and will care for them so governments can't "bring to an end" the role of the young carer. What they can do is support the young carers to ensure that they are enabled to have a life, achieve at school and make sure that their opportunities - their "outcomes" are not affected by their caring role. The Carers Bill sets out a duty on councils to assess and provide support and it's going through the committee stage right now having been open to consultation. Many charities have provided information as to how the bill can be improved and we wait to see what changes happen. In my opinion it doesn't go far enough but it does make provision for young carers to be given extra support both in school and at home.

A national helpline to give advice to disabled and their carers to help with benefit or legal issues

Carers Scotland has a helpline and many charities like dementia Scotland or MS society already do this. In addition the CAB does amazing work with those needing legal and benefit advice

More funding for disabled housing

Absolutely. The Scottish Government has found the money to keep the independent Living Fund which has been abolished by WM and we have already spoken about the help to adapt scheme and how that is widening the available help but there is more that can be done. Increasing the amount of social housing being built is good and working with those who have identifiable needs is important to achieve this. And in many cases the wait is too long for the housing need to be addressed.

Help to those who have been unfairly sanctioned with their benefits

This exists already - the Scottish Government has made sure the 3rd sector organisations are funded to provide this through advocacy services or CAB. However as we have already mentioned on another thread the SG has no power to prevent or change the sanctions regime.

Fight to return Employment and Support Allowance to all disabled people and the ending of means testing

This, once again, I'm afraid, relies on Scotland being given the power to have its own social security system. There are no plans to devolve ESA. And even if that could be secured there are absolutely no plans to devolve the running of Jobcentreplus. Without independence or FFA, the Scottish Government is powerless to change these things. I know you guys hate that but it is true.

It's a bit like the bedroom tax. Scotland has not been able to abolish the bedroom tax. The Scottish Government could only agree to pay it on behalf of those affected. In order to do that they had to ask permission from the WM government to spend the money it would cost. That's not ask for extra money from Westminster it's having to ask permission for Scotland to spend our own money on the bedroom tax.

It's worth remembering also that the SNP MPs are pushing for these changed all the time, we saw the Scotland Bill passed with a complete refusal to consider amendments which would have addressed some of these issues. We saw the Welfare Reform Bill passed to the utter shame of the abstaining PLP, the result of which thankfully increased the popularity of Jeremy Corbyn by galvanising many ordinary people to vote for a leader who stood for the things that other candidates forgot and thank goodness for that.

Social care is in an awful mess in some places and ok In others. The SG treads a fine line because it's administered by local councils and NHS Boards - to take it over would be a mistake. The community empowerment bill also may lead to improvements on services if communities can start social enterprises to provide the care, and the quality of care which may be missing in council provided services. A lot of work to do for sure and it's fantastic that people are standing for holyrood on these sorts of issues. It's massively important that their voices are heard and this is a great platform from which to shout.

[rob murray]

Rob lol I'm not best pleased at having to go back and view BTs posts to see what you are talking about lol. He'll be complaining I'm not ignoring him enough if I'm not careful.

Probably the best way to deal with issues around this is probably to look at the issues mentioned in the courier article but it will be a lengthy response I'm afraid. It deserves one though.

Frank kopel's widow is right. At the time he became ill services were awful and in many places even today they are still problematic and it's not good enough. The situation Frank Kopel and his wife found themselves in is awful and sadly, not uncommon. However It's not as simple as just adding under 65s to the existing over 65s system. Giving under 65s free personal care can impact on benefits which are paid to under 65s and which over 65s aren't entitled to. These benefits may include money for personal care which may be removed if personal care is provided. If that happens then this may impact on disability premiums, council tax reductions and other passported benefits and would likely leave people worse off. In addition Carers Allowance is a pitiful amount. £62 a week - not even as much as Jobseekers Allowance. It's disgusting. The Smith commission has recommended that Carers Allowance and PIP be devolved but as we are still without the new powers outlined by Smith we have no option but to work with what we have. The Scottish government has already said that it would increase Carers Allowance to the level of JSA once it is devolved but we are still waiting. As the courier says these are the other issues.

System overhaul for dementia sufferers

There is a real need for an overhaul of dementia services. Much has already been done and dementia link workers and support workers in many areas do a good job. The Self Directed Support act (2013) gives power to dementia sufferers and their carers to get the support they want and I have seen this used particularly effectively with early onset dementia. But It is early days with SDS and we see all the time that social workers don't really understand the system properly yet and this causes immense frustration and real hardship. Rural areas also suffer from a lack of choice and part of that is down to the way we undervalue care services. Poor wages, poor working conditions, lack of training, poor career progression all make for a high turnover of staff and unfortunately a poor quality of care in far too many cases.

A new investigatory independent body set up to look into medical mistakes and negligence within the NHS in Scotland with powers to bring about criminal prosecutions where there is clear evidence of neglect.

We are seeing investigations in Highland and across Scotland and the Adult Support and protection act (2007) has set a legal responsibility to investigate where a concern is raised. There is training in this for carers coming to Wick in November I think. I don't know whether there is a need for an independent body but the NHS is not excluded from the provisions of the ASP act.

Subsidised parking to be introduced at Ninewells Hospital – charges are currently a “tax on the sick and staff”

It's bloody awful that people have to pay to park at these hospitals. I think there are three. Ninewells, ERI and one other I can't remember. We are lumbered with these charges as a result of Labours disastrous PFI contracts. I believe that there have been repeated attempts by the SG and the NHS boards to get the private companies to reduce or get rid of the charges but this has so far fallen on deaf ears. It's too lucrative for the private companies involved to give it up and contractually we are tied into it.

Bringing an end to all under-16s who are the main carers within a family

You can't do this. Families are families and they love each other and will care for them so governments can't "bring to an end" the role of the young carer. What they can do is support the young carers to ensure that they are enabled to have a life, achieve at school and make sure that their opportunities - their "outcomes" are not affected by their caring role. The Carers Bill sets out a duty on councils to assess and provide support and it's going through the committee stage right now having been open to consultation. Many charities have provided information as to how the bill can be improved and we wait to see what changes happen. In my opinion it doesn't go far enough but it does make provision for young carers to be given extra support both in school and at home.

A national helpline to give advice to disabled and their carers to help with benefit or legal issues

Carers Scotland has a helpline and many charities like dementia Scotland or MS society already do this. In addition the CAB does amazing work with those needing legal and benefit advice

More funding for disabled housing

Absolutely. The Scottish Government has found the money to keep the independent Living Fund which has been abolished by WM and we have already spoken about the help to adapt scheme and how that is widening the available help but there is more that can be done. Increasing the amount of social housing being built is good and working with those who have identifiable needs is important to achieve this. And in many cases the wait is too long for the housing need to be addressed.

Help to those who have been unfairly sanctioned with their benefits

This exists already - the Scottish Government has made sure the 3rd sector organisations are funded to provide this through advocacy services or CAB. However as we have already mentioned on another thread the SG has no power to prevent or change the sanctions regime.

Fight to return Employment and Support Allowance to all disabled people and the ending of means testing

This, once again, I'm afraid, relies on Scotland being given the power to have its own social security system. There are no plans to devolve ESA. And even if that could be secured there are absolutely no plans to devolve the running of Jobcentreplus. Without independence or FFA, the Scottish Government is powerless to change these things. I know you guys hate that but it is true.

It's a bit like the bedroom tax. Scotland has not been able to abolish the bedroom tax. The Scottish Government could only agree to pay it on behalf of those affected. In order to do that they had to ask permission from the WM government to spend the money it would cost. That's not ask for extra money from Westminster it's having to ask permission for Scotland to spend our own money on the bedroom tax.

It's worth remembering also that the SNP MPs are pushing for these changed all the time, we saw the Scotland Bill passed with a complete refusal to consider amendments which would have addressed some of these issues. We saw the Welfare Reform Bill passed to the utter shame of the abstaining PLP, the result of which thankfully increased the popularity of Jeremy Corbyn by galvanising many ordinary people to vote for a leader who stood for the things that other candidates forgot and thank goodness for that.

Social care is in an awful mess in some places and ok In others. The SG treads a fine line because it's administered by local councils to take it over would be a mistake. The community empowerment bill also may lead to improvements on services if communities can start social enterprises to provide the care, and the quality of care which may be missing in council provided services. A lot of work to do for sure and it's fantastic that people are standing for holyrood on these sorts of issues. It's massively important that their voices are heard and this is a great platform from which to shout.

Can you explain the macaroni pie discussion ? what was that about

[squidge]

I have no idea! I hate macaroni pies!


Edit:


Apparently Ian Gray asked a question about it at FM Questions in June

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-33271124