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View Full Version : How Much More Damage To This Country (Scotland) Can The SNP Do?



cptdodger
13-Sep-15, 12:42
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-34234024

"Opposition parties accused Ms Sturgeon of breaking her "once-in-a-generation" referendum promise."

Since when did the SNP respect what the majority of the people want (as proved) ?

squidge
13-Sep-15, 14:06
It will be outlined in their manifesto under what circumstances and how a second referendum may be possible. You don't have to vote for it. It's always in the manifesto - you have never HAD to vote for the SNP and you still don't HAVE to vote for the SNP. If people are happy to have another referendum under the circumstances which will be set out in the manifesto then they will vote for the SNP - if not, they won't. Respecting the will of the people is what the elected representatives of the SNP do every day they go to work in Westminster. If they didn't respect the fact that we remain part of the Union and need to operate as such then the MOs would either not have stood or would not turn up.

It's a shame that the UK government doesn't respect the fact that Scotland has its own devolved government and, in addition to excluding the Agriculture and fisheries minister from talks on fishing quotas which only affect Scotland they have also excluded Humza Yusaf from being part of a UK delegation to the UN summit on tackling global poverty despite him being Scotland's minister on Europe and International affairs and the person who should be representing Scotland's views within a UK delegation.

cptdodger
13-Sep-15, 14:10
"Opposition parties accused Ms Sturgeon of breaking her "once-in-a-generation" referendum promise."

squidge
13-Sep-15, 14:18
There was no once in a generation promise. Alex Salmond said that "in his view" the referendum was a once in a generation event. But that was his view. He did not sign the SNP up to a "promise". Like I said, it will be set out in the manifesto and you and EVERYONE else able to vote can choose to vote for it or not

cptdodger
13-Sep-15, 14:23
Scotland's First Minister Alex Salmond told the BBC One's The Andrew Marr Show (http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b0080bbs) that if the majority of Scots vote No to independence on 18 September (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/scottish-independence/), there will be no second referendum on the subject within this "political generation".

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/scottish-independence/11095210/Alex-Salmond-This-is-a-once-in-a-generation-opportunity-for-Scotland.html

BetterTogether
13-Sep-15, 15:46
It will be outlined in their manifesto under what circumstances and how a second referendum may be possible. You don't have to vote for it. It's always in the manifesto - you have never HAD to vote for the SNP and you still don't HAVE to vote for the SNP. If people are happy to have another referendum under the circumstances which will be set out in the manifesto then they will vote for the SNP - if not, they won't. Respecting the will of the people is what the elected representatives of the SNP do every day they go to work in Westminster. If they didn't respect the fact that we remain part of the Union and need to operate as such then the MOs would either not have stood or would not turn up. It's a shame that the UK government doesn't respect the fact that Scotland has its own devolved government and, in addition to excluding the Agriculture and fisheries minister from talks on fishing quotas which only affect Scotland they have also excluded Humza Yusaf from being part of a UK delegation to the UN summit on tackling global poverty despite him being Scotland's minister on Europe and International affairs and the person who should be representing Scotland's views within a UK delegation.. Humza Yusaf is a junior cabinet minister his job is Minister for European Trade and International development , what part of a summit on global poverty would he have a part it playing. It isn't his department despite you getting his Job description wrong he has no place representing the UK Governmentfish in this role. You are deliberately playing fast in lose with the truth again and fanning the flames of discourse.

You also fail to mention that representation at the fishing quota talks is restricted to one per member state so he wasn't excluded by the UK Govt they sent someone to represent the whole UK rather than someone who only has a remit for Scotland. Once again fast and lose with the facts.

Again Squidge the First Minister at the time signed the Edinburgh Agreement which bound all those involved to respect the outcome, since then barely a week has past since the SNP have floated the idea of Indy2. Let's not to mention the numerous TV, Radio broadcasts which can be viewed each claiming " once in a lifetime " " once in a generation " it seems the SNP leadership are no more credible with the truth than those they accuse.

My personal opinion is the SNP leadership are now running scared of a rejuvenated Labour Party swinging further to the left and losing them precious voters as the life long Labour supporters start to realise the SNP is no more than Tory Lite or Tartan Tories as I've seen them being described.

squidge
13-Sep-15, 16:49
Scotland's First Minister Alex Salmond told the BBC One's The Andrew Marr Show (http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b0080bbs) that if the majority of Scots vote No to independence on 18 September (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/scottish-independence/), there will be no second referendum on the subject within this "political generation". http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/scottish-independence/11095210/Alex-Salmond-This-is-a-once-in-a-generation-opportunity-for-Scotland.html

This is the quote from the Andrew Marr Show.

Asked today if he could pledge that “Alex Salmond will not bring another referendum if you don’t win this one”, the First Minister said: “That’s my view. In my view this is a once in a generation, perhaps even once in a lifetime opportunity for Scotland.”He added: “Harold Wilson famously (said) one vote is enough in a referendum but we're not aiming to win by one vote, we're aiming to achieve a substantial majority if we can.“If you remember that previous constitutional referendum in Scotland - there was one in 1979 and then the next one was 1997. That's what I mean by a political generation.“In my opinion, and it is just my opinion, this is a once in a generation opportunity for Scotland.”

If you want to check that this is correct then you can read it here and you can even watch the video. http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/scottish-independence/scottish-independence-alex-salmond-pledges-not-to-bring-back-another-referendum-if-yes-campaign-fails-9731885.html

Regardless of what the headlines say, regardless of what people might like to have been promised it is clear that Alex Salmond did not use the words promised, or pledged and made it perfectly clear that he was giving his own opinion and not that of the party. I am sorry that you were misled by the newspapers CPT but, Once again, you are free to choose NOT to vote for the SNP.

cptdodger
13-Sep-15, 16:58
"The direct cost to the taxpayer of the Scottish independence referendum is set to exceed £16m but the true total, including related and knock-on costs, may never been known.

In 2013 in an impact assessment for the Scottish Parliament, the estimated price-tag was set at £13.3m, a rise of £3m on previous figures, with the cost of running the referendum itself accounting for £8.6m with another £4.7m spent on regulation and campaign mailshots. "


So basically the SNP are quite happy to throw good money after bad.

Nicola Sturgeon -

"It's then for people in Scotland, whether it is in this election or in future elections, to decide whether they want to vote for our manifesto and then if there is in the future another independence referendum, whether that's in five years or 10 years or whenever, it will be down to the people of Scotland to decide whether they want to vote for independence or not."

We categorically did decide, and it was NOT for independence. But hey, all the SNP and Yes voters will just ignore that tiny technicality and plough on no matter what the cost to the Country. If Scotland is bankrupt by the time the vote goes their way, so be it, they got what they wished for.

cptdodger
13-Sep-15, 17:04
.

Again Squidge the First Minister at the time signed the Edinburgh Agreement which bound all those involved to respect the outcome, since then barely a week has past since the SNP have floated the idea of Indy2. Let's not to mention the numerous TV, Radio broadcasts which can be viewed each claiming " once in a lifetime " " once in a generation " it seems the SNP leadership are no more credible with the truth than those they accuse.

It appears you, me and the rest of the 55% that voted NO, misheard this !!

BetterTogether
13-Sep-15, 17:24
Maybe we should start legal proceedings against Salmond and Sturgeon for lying to the electorate, considering SNP supporters have already set a precedent over a relatively insignificant issue with Alistair Carmichael I don't see any issue with the moral or legal issues.

It's on right that they be held equally to account in this more free fair society to the same rules they apply to others.

squidge
13-Sep-15, 17:32
All they are doing is putting in the manifesto the commitment to an Independent Scotland - hardly a surprise even to you CPT.

As far as a 2nd referendum is concerned I understand the manifesto will outline the situations in which a 2nd referendum might be possible and how it will come about if the circumstances arise. Given that this is the case, then you will have clarity about the issue that so many of you have been demanding and stamping your feet about for ages whilst the rest of us have been busy getting on with selecting candidates, winning seats, implementing legislation and lobbying on a variety of policies.

Oh and you didn't mishear CPT - you were misled - by the press because it suited them to have you think that is what was said when it wasn't. It's really annoying when they do that isn't it.

BetterTogether
13-Sep-15, 17:34
Sounds to me like the SNP are running scared of Mr Corbyn and his new revitalised Labour Party which is about to veer further left than the SNP ever dreamt of.

The old tired tactic of trying to link Labour with a progressive alliance with the SNP again trying to smear the party by association unfortunately I doubt Corbyn will allow that to happen again.

BetterTogether
13-Sep-15, 19:01
Just to put an addendum to my previous post.

As Squidge is no doubt fully aware international development is a reserved matter under the devolution settlement. There is an overall limit on the size of the delegation attending with all the places allocated to Principal Ministers and Senior Officials.

Humza Yousaf is a Junior Minister so why would he expect a place apart from to air a grievance created out of thin air to suit a political purpose.

cptdodger
13-Sep-15, 19:36
No I wasn't misled by the press about the Referendum being once in a lifetime/ generation , your newly elected Scottish National Party politician, Dr Paul Monaghan wrote that on his Facebook page, mind you that was way before the election.

And no of course it isn't a surprise to me the SNP want to throw millions of pounds down the drain on yet another pointless exercise.

squidge
13-Sep-15, 21:24
Did HE promise, pledge or otherwise guarantee it? As he wasn't elected to anything at the time I would be surprised.

It's only a pointless exercise if no one wants it. As has been quite clearly stated a 2nd referendum will only happen if there is a material change and if the people of Scotland vote for a referendum. If people vote for a 2nd referendum then it's not pointless, if they don't then there won't be a referendum. Seems pretty straightforward to me.

cptdodger
13-Sep-15, 21:36
He assured me there would not be another Referendum for at least a generation (his words not mine). I believed that about as much as I believed his assurances pertaining to Caithness General if the SNP gained power. I don't know how many times I have to say this, the Country has already spoken, 55% of us voted NO, end of. The yes voters missed their chance, not enough people could be bullied into voting yes.

BetterTogether
13-Sep-15, 21:42
Current poll shows that if a referendum was to take place it would still be 52% No but surprisingly 53% support Trident.

Given that polls frequently showed the Yes campaign doing significantly better than they actually did reality is of the SNP go for another referendum they'd lose.

That would end the fight for Independence pretty much for the rest of our lifetime.

3 attempts and no change would finish off the SNP for good unable to achieve the very reason for their exsistence their power would crumble and they would go back to being a minor party on the fringe of politics.

As it is their shambolic governance has yet to catch up with them but already they are 8 years into power by the next General Election it will be 13 years but they will no longer be able to lay the blame for everything at Weatminsters door with all their new powers.

We already have the unedifying situation where they are fighting multiple accusations of cronyism, what else will mire them down over the next few years.

More multi million pound contracts for party donators ?

A more failings in Education ?

More crisis in NHS Scotland ?

More problems with Police Scotland ?

More division in the country ? One thing they have failed totally to do is unify Scotland since the referendum.


More and more people are becoming worn down by the constant outrage of the SNP and throwing out threats of Indyref2 it does them no favours as they are rapidly becoming the laughing stock of political commentators with their constant outrage at every possible issue whilst ignoring the problems that they themselves have created.

Yet we still have not a single word about what they intend to do with all the new powers they are about to get.

No word on how they intend to transform Scotlands economy so it could weather Independence.

http://www.thecourier.co.uk/news/politics/poll-shows-52-would-vote-no-to-scottish-independence-1.899673

squidge
13-Sep-15, 21:49
The Yes voters didn't miss their chance. They took their chance to vote yes. Having lost, we have just got on with whatever has happened next and that's what will happen with a second referendum. We shall just have to see what happens next. It's interesting for sure, we have the EU Referendum, the situation with Refugees, we have the issue of military action in Syria which is floating around the outskirts, we have the Scottish elections coming up, we have the welfare bill and the Scotlabd Bill still to be decided and we have Jeremy Corbyn. Interesting times for sure.

cptdodger
13-Sep-15, 21:56
More division in the country ? One thing they have failed totally to do is unify Scotland since the referendum.


More and more people are becoming worn down by the constant outrage of the SNP and throwing out threats of Indyref2 it does them no favours as they are rapidly becoming the laughing stock of political commentators with their constant outrage at every possible issue whilst ignoring the problems that they themselves have created.

And that is what I was referring to when I said, how much more damage can the SNP do.

BetterTogether
13-Sep-15, 21:57
Did HE promise, pledge or otherwise guarantee it? As he wasn't elected to anything at the time I would be surprised. It's only a pointless exercise if no one wants it. As has been quite clearly stated a 2nd referendum will only happen if there is a material change and if the people of Scotland vote for a referendum. If people vote for a 2nd referendum then it's not pointless, if they don't then there won't be a referendum. Seems pretty straightforward to me.

So he and the First Minister are happy to just pretend they didn't say " once in a lifetime " " once in a Generation " and play semantics with the English Language over its not a promise because I didn't say I promise or had my fingers crossed when I said it.

This is the child like ramblings of politicians who do not deserve to be in power they treat the electorate with contempt when they go back on their statements.

We now see how this has affected the political scene south of the border with political parties going through upheaval for the very same game the SNP are playing.

Which is simply taking the electorate for fools with insincerity and double talk.

One thing for certain their word is not to be trusted .

cptdodger
13-Sep-15, 22:00
http://www.thecourier.co.uk/news/politics/poll-shows-52-would-vote-no-to-scottish-independence-1.899673

Being from just outside Dundee, the Courier was my local paper, but that it quite interesting as The City Of Dundee voted Yes, thankfully where I grew up didn't, but that poll will not go down very well in Dundee - shame !

cptdodger
13-Sep-15, 22:06
So he and the First Minister are happy to just pretend they didn't say " once in a lifetime " " once in a Generation " and play semantics with the English Language over its not a promise because I didn't say I promise or had my fingers crossed when I said it.

This is the child like ramblings of politicians who do not deserve to be in power they treat the electorate with contempt when they go back on their statements.

We now see how this has affected the political scene south of the border with political parties going through upheaval for the very same game the SNP are playing.

Which is simply taking the electorate for fools with insincerity and double talk.

One thing for certain their word is not to be trusted .

From my point of view, Monaghan was just telling me what I wanted to hear to gain my vote. While as far as I'm concerned a second Referendum is dead in the water as Sturgeon said she would only go for it if that's what the "public" wanted, if she is going on the strength of polls, then good luck to her ! Health on the other hand is a real issue here, and I take offence that he just lied through his teeth to try to get my vote.

squidge
13-Sep-15, 22:33
Hmmm, who is pretending? I don't know about Paul Monaghan but I'm not pretending Alex Salmond didn't say it and neither is anyone else. Alex Salmond certainly did say it, as I have clearly shown in the quote and in the video link. He did not, however, pledge or promise on behalf of the SNP or the Scottish Government. The only people who can decide if and when there is another referendum is actually us as you have just said CPT. You should therefore have nothing to worry about. After all, the Scottish people said No 12 months ago and as the SNP are, according to you and so many of BT's posts, failing miserably you shouldn't have anything to worry about.

squidge
13-Sep-15, 22:40
Ooooh, on health.... NHS highland are advertising for a new Chairperson. anyone who is interested should look and see if they want to apply. This is a chance perhaps to make things happen rather than feeling powerless to do anything. Details are here https://applications.appointed-for-scotland.org/pages/job_search_view.aspx?jobId=925&JobIndex=2&categoryList=&minsal=0&maxsal=150000&workingPatternList=&keywords=&PageIndex=1&Number=9

cptdodger
13-Sep-15, 22:41
I never said anybody was pretending.

I am not worried about another Referendum.

I am worried (as I have repeatedly said) about the damage they are doing to this country.

davth
14-Sep-15, 06:39
Hmmm, who is pretending? I don't know about Paul Monaghan but I'm not pretending Alex Salmond didn't say it and neither is anyone else. Alex Salmond certainly did say it, as I have clearly shown in the quote and in the video link. He did not, however, pledge or promise on behalf of the SNP or the Scottish Government. The only people who can decide if and when there is another referendum is actually us as you have just said CPT. You should therefore have nothing to worry about. After all, the Scottish people said No 12 months ago and as the SNP are, according to you and so many of BT's posts, failing miserably you shouldn't have anything to worry about.Squidge, Alex salmond was at the time those statements our first minister and leader of the SNP.Therefore anything he states on public record is the position of the SNP and their pledge.Don't you think that the potential £15m cost to the country and further divison is something to worry about, or perhaps the open loose morals of our SMP's?

cptdodger
14-Sep-15, 08:45
http://www.thecourier.co.uk/news/politics/alex-salmond/referendum-no-longer-once-in-a-generation-event-salmond-says-second-indy-vote-is-much-closer-1.899914

"Alex Salmond has sensationally U-turned on his promise that last year’s independence referendum was a once in a generation event."

Seems strange to me Salmond can be perceived to be doing a u turn, if he never said it in the first place ?

BetterTogether
14-Sep-15, 09:29
Hmmm, who is pretending? I don't know about Paul Monaghan but I'm not pretending Alex Salmond didn't say it and neither is anyone else. Alex Salmond certainly did say it, as I have clearly shown in the quote and in the video link. He did not, however, pledge or promise on behalf of the SNP or the Scottish Government. The only people who can decide if and when there is another referendum is actually us as you have just said CPT. You should therefore have nothing to worry about. After all, the Scottish people said No 12 months ago and as the SNP are, according to you and so many of BT's posts, failing miserably you shouldn't have anything to worry about.

So what you're effectively saying is when Alex Salmond signed the Edinburgh agreement which bound him " to respect the outcome" he was signing on behalf of himself not on behalf of the SNP.

Whatever he said at anytime was never as a spokesperson for the SNP but as an individual.Well that's quite incredible does make you wonder now of anything we hear is actually on behalf of the SNP.

Maybe they have no become what they complained about so vigourusly for years just politicians trying to keep power by any means and that includes lying.

The one thing Squidge fails to mention when she sits there deriding any opposition is the cost to the public purse using money which could well be spent on other issues instead of wasting it on more political posturing.

rob murray
14-Sep-15, 09:37
I would take no notice on STurgeons latest utterings nor yesterdays man Salmon, facts are, that the situation hasnt changed one jot...definitive answers / plan b;'s outlined on the currency, the EU, economic developments / growth are not in place nor likely to be, also this morning on the radio ( scotland ) heard an intersting wee take by a politics professor, basically she says, yes the SNP are at a height, but a lack of consultation and involvement in the political process to ordinary citizens /the SNP's preferered option for tight centralised control, plus delays in progressing indy ref 2 ( they cant progress this seriously until the big issues are answered ) will invariable erode their support as people, diehards in particluar wull get fed up...splits ?? ) . STurgeon has to "manage expectations"...if she stuck indy 2 in 2016 SNP manifesto and gains the epected huge majority, she knows she wont win a re run of an indy vote, she will only be prepared to advocate indy 2 when she knows she can win and she can deliver the goods ( there is a difference ...whats the point in having independance in a Scotland with the big issues unasnwered...she would have to fix the mess....and she / they dont want that ) another defeat will finish it.

rob murray
14-Sep-15, 09:44
Hmmm, who is pretending? I don't know about Paul Monaghan but I'm not pretending Alex Salmond didn't say it and neither is anyone else. Alex Salmond certainly did say it, as I have clearly shown in the quote and in the video link. He did not, however, pledge or promise on behalf of the SNP or the Scottish Government. The only people who can decide if and when there is another referendum is actually us as you have just said CPT. You should therefore have nothing to worry about. After all, the Scottish people said No 12 months ago and as the SNP are, according to you and so many of BT's posts, failing miserably you shouldn't have anything to worry about.

You know who is pretending.....you know that indy 2 cannot happen until sturgeons knows she can win.....and she cant until the big issues remain answered and she is sure of polls...which is not the case......so the pretence is now and again shake out indy 2, keep the yes vote happy / manage their expectations but there is only so much time she can be allowed before people see the issues for what it is ...a pretence. Politics is based around dialtical materialsm, it doesnt matter what Salmond did or did not say... the stick has many bends.....

BetterTogether
14-Sep-15, 09:48
I agree Rob.Sturgeon is walking a political tight rope she has no new answers to any of the big difficult to answer questions. If she fails to make Indy 2 look somewhere on the horizon she loses followers. If she goes for Indy2 in the near future she is in for the drubbing of her life. Whichever way she turns the SNP are now between a rock and a hard place. A referendum they can't win or normal politics and return to the minor party status. Once Indy is removed from their voters vision they will start to notice the cracks in the walls on everything else.

cptdodger
14-Sep-15, 09:48
I would take no notice on STurgeons latest utterings nor yesterdays man Salmon, facts are, that the situation hasnt changed one jot...definitive answers / plan b;'s outlined on the currency, the EU, economic developments / growth are not in place nor likely to be, also this morning on the radio ( scotland ) heard an intersting wee take by a politics professor, basically she says, yes the SNP are at a height, but a lack of consultation and involvement in the political process to ordinary citizens /the SNP's preferered option for tight centralised control, plus delays in progressing indy ref 2 ( they cant progress this seriously until the big issues are answered ) will invariable erode their support as people, diehards in particluar wull get fed up...splits ?? ) . STurgeon has to "manage expectations"...if she stuck indy 2 in 2016 SNP manifesto and gains the epected huge majority, she knows she wont win a re run of an indy vote, she will only be prepared to advocate indy 2 when she knows she can win and she can deliver the goods ( there is a difference ...whats the point in having independance in a Scotland with the big issues unasnwered...she would have to fix the mess....and she / they dont want that ) another defeat will finish it.

While I agree with you, it's Sturgeons and now Salmonds utterings that are enforcing the fact Scotland is now very much a divided Country. After the Referendum were measures not supposed to be taken to reunite the Country? All they are doing is continuously fanning the independence flames.

cptdodger
14-Sep-15, 09:57
Mind you, if the SNP stop waving this stick with a carrot on the end of it, how may yes voters will vote for them ?

rob murray
14-Sep-15, 10:01
While I agree with you, it's Sturgeons and now Salmonds utterings that are enforcing the fact Scotland is now very much a divided Country. After the Referendum were measures not supposed to be taken to reunite the Country? All they are doing is continuously fanning the independence flames.

Yep but name me one politician that hasnt gone back on what theye say / said....its the art of politics / the dynamics of politics,.....the .reality is Sturgeon knows that a large part of "her support" voted SNP to deliver independance...she has to manage their expatations...imagine what would happen if she came clean today...ie currency, EU economy.......we need time to get our plans together ( blame westminster once again, buy more time etc ) how many people would give her the "time"...she needs at least 2 succesful parliaments and a consistent yes % over no's in polls, and an economy that can deliver, before she can make her move.......Once the referendum was taken it split the country and it will take generations before, if ever, we are united.....

cptdodger
14-Sep-15, 10:41
Yep but name me one politician that hasnt gone back on what theye say / said....

I couldn't, even if I tried I can't think of one. While Political Parties come and go in power, there is only one that has threatened my nationality and that is the SNP. So while Sturgeon is just another run of the mill politician, no worse and by no far the better than the next politician she and her party can do me most harm.

rob murray
14-Sep-15, 10:45
I couldn't, even if I tried I can't think of one. While Political Parties come and go in power, there is only one that has threatened my nationality and that is the SNP. So while Sturgeon is just another run of the mill politician, no worse and by no far the better than the next politician she and her party can do me most harm.

But they wont as they cant !

cptdodger
14-Sep-15, 10:57
But they wont as they cant !

I admit I was naive enough to think everything would go back to "normal" on the 19th of September 2014, how wrong I was. I stayed up all the previous night just to make sure we (the no voters) had won. I thought it was because I was tired, but I could not understand why Cameron was standing there saying they would give Holyrood this power and that power, why? they lost.

BetterTogether
14-Sep-15, 11:06
Thought you'd enjoy this a little Tweet Capture between Sunny Hundal and the First Minister

rob murray
14-Sep-15, 11:18
Thought you'd enjoy this a little Tweet Capture between Sunny Hundal and the First Minister

STuregeon..."if labour cant quickly show that they have a credible chance of winning the UK election many will convlude that indy is only alternative to Tory government...right away following the tory media line...Corbyn = no chance.....these tweets exposes sturgeons agenda...the SNP are not interested in participating in the anti austerity agenda / coalition....there agenda is indy 2.....but sturgeon is really contradicting herself all over the shop, and out of her depth....compare these statements and TV interview utterances over sunday with recent releases....SNP manifesto to reveal possible second referendum timetable / maybes aye maybe no / could./ depenednat on circustances etc etc ...hold a referedum only when sure she would win....... thats the agenda and it will take a long time to be , if ever in that position....so anti austerity party.....she's having a laugh, is she now saying that the SNP have more in common with the tories than Labour as Corbyns pledges ... in particular real anti poverty measures through quantative easing are way to the left of any SNP utterances.

rob murray
14-Sep-15, 12:17
All they are doing is putting in the manifesto the commitment to an Independent Scotland - hardly a surprise even to you CPT.

As far as a 2nd referendum is concerned I understand the manifesto will outline the situations in which a 2nd referendum might be possible and how it will come about if the circumstances arise. Given that this is the case, then you will have clarity about the issue that so many of you have been demanding and stamping your feet about for ages whilst the rest of us have been busy getting on with selecting candidates, winning seats, implementing legislation and lobbying on a variety of policies.

Oh and you didn't mishear CPT - you were misled - by the press because it suited them to have you think that is what was said when it wasn't. It's really annoying when they do that isn't it.

You forgot to mention : First Minister Nicola Sturgeon said she would only hold another referendum if she was confident she would win......what has......"the rest of us have been busy getting on with selecting candidates, winning seats, implementing legislation and lobbying on a variety of policies".....who is "us" and what has this got to do with anything ? As for stamping your feet about for ages.....well................

BetterTogether
14-Sep-15, 12:24
The latest poll shows that if the SNP pledge to another referendum in their manifesto they will lose a third of their voters.

That'll be all the ones who don't want Independence and believed them when they said the GE wasn't about independence.

That won't go down well at party central.

BetterTogether
14-Sep-15, 12:27
You forgot to mention : First Minister Nicola Sturgeon said she would only hold another referendum if she was confident she would win......what has......"the rest of us have been busy getting on with selecting candidates, winning seats, implementing legislation and lobbying on a variety of policies".....who is "us" and what has this got to do with anything ? As for stamping your feet about for ages.....well................Does sound like someone who is more involved with the party than they let on.But what do I know.

rob murray
14-Sep-15, 12:38
Stamping your feet......ok...how about lie back and believe 100% of SNP utterances....for someone who advocates "democracy" ( the right to challenge, demand answers....call it stamping yer feet ) her utterances do her no favours whatsoever, cant seem to help herself... theres always got to be a subtle and not so subtle dig, cant leave things alone and make a comment and leave it at that. Nah...scorrie politics....fly in ....make a lot of noise....dump on pepple....and fly off.......

BetterTogether
14-Sep-15, 16:13
YouGov/Times
(Scotland good/bad job)

Cameron -33 (+1)

Sturgeon +39 (-16)

Dugdale -15

Davidson =

7-10 Sep
N=1,110


http://t.co/cNyxWMD56Y

rob murray
14-Sep-15, 16:57
YouGov/Times
(Scotland good/bad job)

Cameron -33 (+1)

Sturgeon +39 (-16)

Dugdale -15

Davidson =

7-10 Sep
N=1,110


http://t.co/cNyxWMD56Y

Dugdale dont count....she has done nowt yet ! Whats Davidsons ranking...is Sturgeon down 16 points ?

BetterTogether
14-Sep-15, 17:28
Sturgeon down 16 points, Davidson no move

BetterTogether
14-Sep-15, 17:41
Seems there is dissent within the rank and file over in Ayr I wonder how many other areas are suffering similar problems

squidge
15-Sep-15, 06:37
You forgot to mention : First Minister Nicola Sturgeon said she would only hold another referendum if she was confident she would win......what has......"the rest of us have been busy getting on with selecting candidates, winning seats, implementing legislation and lobbying on a variety of policies".....who is "us" and what has this got to do with anything ? As for stamping your feet about for ages.....well................

On this board you guys have been stamping your feet about a 2nd Indy ref since September 19th 2014 lol. Demanding that it doesn't happen, demanding a time scale, asking for a date, demanding to know if it will be in the manifesto and if not- why not.

The messtage has been consistent from the SNP all the way through.

1. There will be the possibility of a 2nd referendum if there is a significant change

2. This will only happen if the people vote for it to happen and if there is significant support for a yes vote.

Those of us that support the SNP and are members have been getting on with what I described. Selecting candidates for Westminster, getting them elected. We have had a selection process for candidates for holyrood constituencies and we are getting on with selections for list seat candidates. We have some by elections going on and in the meantime those in parliament have been getting on with the business of government. there has been much lobbying going on across a whole range of issues over the last year or more.

The focus has not been on a 2nd Indy ref for those of us that want one because we know there are other things to do first.. For those that don't want one - well it's hardly been off this message board.

davth
15-Sep-15, 07:42
Squidge, Alex salmond was at the time those statements our first minister and leader of the SNP.Therefore anything he states on public record is the position of the SNP and their pledge.Don't you think that the potential £15m cost to the country and further divison is something to worry about, or perhaps the open loose morals of our SMP's?

Squidge, any response?

cptdodger
15-Sep-15, 08:01
Clearly Sturgeon and Salmond must have been "misquoted" yet again, because they never make any reference to a second referendum -

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-34234024

http://www.thecourier.co.uk/news/politics/alex-salmond/referendum-no-longer-once-in-a-generation-event-salmond-says-second-indy-vote-is-much-closer-1.899914

squidge
15-Sep-15, 08:45
Squidge, any response?Your posts get a bit lost amongst the rest of them.

You have a point that Alex Salmond was First Minister at the time and I can see that had he used the words "promised" or "pledged" then he could have been seen as promising or pledging on behalf of the SNP. There are two issues with that though, firstly, he did not either promise or pledge that there would be no future referendum and secondly he stated twice that this was his view and his opinion, saying specifically "in my opinion, and it is just my opinion".

I agree that spending money on a second referendum now would be a waste of money. However, if in the future voters vote for the opportunity for a second referendum, in specific circumstances and public opinion is such that Independence is supported. In short, if it appears that those supporting an Independent Scotland are in the majority then I think it would be right and proper to have another referendum. I don't know when that would be, but then, it's not up to me, it's up to all of us.

As for your question about open loose morals, I don't really know what you are talking about.

BetterTogether
15-Sep-15, 09:07
On this board you guys have been stamping your feet about a 2nd Indy ref since September 19th 2014 lol. Demanding that it doesn't happen, demanding a time scale, asking for a date, demanding to know if it will be in the manifesto and if not- why not.

So here we have a deliberate misrepresentation our esteemed SNP voice on the org claims its all about us who do not support independence keeping the topic alive, totally ignoring that at every turn we have Sturgeon, Salmond on a plethora of other SNP Elected Politicians on record espousing how something or other is a possible reason for Indy2.

If it wasn't for the SNP spokespeople keeping popping up with Media releases then the subject would be finished. How very atypical blame every one but yourselves.

How dare we the ordinary public have the temerity to discuss in public their statements and press releases. I suggest then if the SNP general party isn't intending Indy2 anytime soon it ceases and desists immediately constantly harping on about it every few days.

Sad reality is they can't let it slide and fade away even though they all know they have no hope of winning because as soon as that happens they cease to exist as a political force.

Valiant209
15-Sep-15, 09:31
To simplify matters for everyone, independence is in the snp Mandate it is their ethos. people who have read this and voted for them have voted for this.

cptdodger
15-Sep-15, 09:41
To simplify matters for everyone, independence is in the snp Mandate it is their ethos. people who have read this and voted for them have voted for this.

And 55% of the voting public voted against Independence. The Country spoke. So maybe it is time for the SNP to either disband, change their name, or change their ethos.

rob murray
15-Sep-15, 09:47
On this board you guys have been stamping your feet about a 2nd Indy ref since September 19th 2014 lol. Demanding that it doesn't happen, demanding a time scale, asking for a date, demanding to know if it will be in the manifesto and if not- why not.

The messtage has been consistent from the SNP all the way through.

1. There will be the possibility of a 2nd referendum if there is a significant change

2. This will only happen if the people vote for it to happen and if there is significant support for a yes vote.

Those of us that support the SNP and are members have been getting on with what I described. Selecting candidates for Westminster, getting them elected. We have had a selection process for candidates for holyrood constituencies and we are getting on with selections for list seat candidates. We have some by elections going on and in the meantime those in parliament have been getting on with the business of government. there has been much lobbying going on across a whole range of issues over the last year or more.

The focus has not been on a 2nd Indy ref for those of us that want one because we know there are other things to do first.. For those that don't want one - well it's hardly been off this message board.

Stamping our feet....as is our right just the same as you are well known on here for stamping your feet / shaking head / sighing etc etc !! Your post is meaningless....the SNP supposedly will outline a number of scenarios in their 2016 manifesto that COULD ( their words ) trigger the possibility of another indy vote, on the basis of the SNP gaining majority it will be interpreted by the SNP as a legitimate mandate to call for indy 2 as they will claim voters who voted for them voted for the manifesto.........but on what basis, the manifesto will contain a number of scenarios...so what scenario will trigger the "call for a legitimate vote / re run " surely it will be the SNP governments chpice here the elcorate will be given a menu ? ANyway Sturgeon has countered this by stating that she would only have a vote if she was sure she would win.....so whats the point in playing semantics and trotting out this childish nonsense, STurgeon will ultimatly call for indy 2, saying that they will act on the peoples wishes and thats that. As it stands it wont be next year as they have no chance of winning any indy 2 ....check legit polls. Your claim that follows is meaningless...isnt this what you should be doing anyway.....or are you rubbing noses in the fact that the SNP have absolute power...whether we like it or not ???? ............Those of us that support the SNP and are members have been getting on with what I described. Selecting candidates for Westminster, getting them elected. We have had a selection process for candidates for holyrood constituencies and we are getting on with selections for list seat candidates. We have some by elections going on and in the meantime those in parliament have been getting on with the business of government. there has been much lobbying going on across a whole range of issues over the last year or more.....Good for you as thats what we would expect any party to do so what ! . SUpporters of parties not in power the same as supporters of parties in power have the democratic right to hold the governemt to account and to criticise..or in your brave new scotia is that now not allowed .........

rob murray
15-Sep-15, 09:52
So here we have a deliberate misrepresentation our esteemed SNP voice on the org claims its all about us who do not support independence keeping the topic alive, totally ignoring that at every turn we have Sturgeon, Salmond on a plethora of other SNP Elected Politicians on record espousing how something or other is a possible reason for Indy2.

If it wasn't for the SNP spokespeople keeping popping up with Media releases then the subject would be finished. How very atypical blame every one but yourselves.

How dare we the ordinary public have the temerity to discuss in public their statements and press releases. I suggest then if the SNP general party isn't intending Indy2 anytime soon it ceases and desists immediately constantly harping on about it every few days.

Sad reality is they can't let it slide and fade away even though they all know they have no hope of winning because as soon as that happens they cease to exist as a political force.

Here here well put of course we keep the topic alive as they ( SNP ) talk about nowt else, absolute power ya see......yes they cannot let it slide as that will erode the hard core yes support and cause potential splits as well they know....do they honestly think that non SNP voters are stupid....and I repeat STurgeons words....we will only have a referendum if we are sure we can win........I dont wnat to go through the events of last september ever again........well on those grounds they wont be having any indy2 then

dozy
15-Sep-15, 10:58
[QUOTE=rob murray;1130349]Here here well put of course we keep the topic alive as they ( SNP ) talk about nowt else, absolute power ya see......yes they cannot let it slide as that will erode the hard core yes support and cause potential splits as well they know....do they honestly think that non SNP voters are stupid....and I repeat STurgeons words....we will only have a referendum if we are sure we can win........I dont wnat to go through the events of last september ever again........well on those grounds they wont be having any indy2 then

Fulmar
15-Sep-15, 11:27
I have been wondering how support for a second referendum might be ascertained and whether it would basically be on votes for the SNP in next year's Scottish elections. But then, folk may want to vote for the SNP (and a landslide win is predicted at present) because of their other policies but without necessarily wanting a second referendum so I do not think it would be clear cut. I also wondered whether there would even be a referendum about holding a second indy referendum as that would seem to me to be the only way that they could be sure people wanted one, irrespective of whether it is win-able or not. But I think that would be plain silly really so no further forward! I think it is more interesting just now to see how things will pan out with Labour and if Jeremy Corbyn does manage to pull something off (party unity for a start) and the new regime begins to work effectively, what kind of influence that may have in Scotland. Voters can be quite change-able and it would not surprise me at all if Labour does better than predicted against the odds as stranger things have certainly happened- and the election of Jeremy Corbyn was never even dreamed of just a few short months ago. Wish I had placed a bet when the odds were so 'good' back then!

squidge
15-Sep-15, 11:38
Here here well put of course we keep the topic alive as they ( SNP ) talk about nowt else, absolute power ya see......yes they cannot let it slide as that will erode the hard core yes support and cause potential splits as well they know....do they honestly think that non SNP voters are stupid....and I repeat STurgeons words....we will only have a referendum if we are sure we can win........I dont wnat to go through the events of last september ever again........well on those grounds they wont be having any indy2 then


lets see - in the last few weeks alone we have had these threads started on Indyref 2

Joan Macalpine on Indy ref2 (http://forum.caithness.org/showthread.php?244179-Joan-Macalpine-on-Indy-ref2)
Started by BetterTogether (http://forum.caithness.org/member.php?28279-BetterTogether)‎, 29-Jul-15 10:13

Referedum mark 2 (http://forum.caithness.org/showthread.php?244038-Referedum-mark-2)
Salmon Speaking on the BBC's Andrew Marr programme, said the independance question was over the...
Started by rob murray (http://forum.caithness.org/member.php?5141-rob-murray)‎, 27-Jul-15 15:40

indy Ref 2 omission from SNP party conference agenda (http://forum.caithness.org/showthread.php?244454-Indy-Ref-2-omission-from-SNP-party-conference-agenda)
Started by BetterTogether (http://forum.caithness.org/member.php?28279-BetterTogether)‎, 04-Aug-15 23:08

Possible secondf referedum (http://forum.caithness.org/showthread.php?245993-Possible-secondf-referedum)
The SNP will set out the timescale for a possible second referendum on independence in its...
Started by rob murray (http://forum.caithness.org/member.php?5141-rob-murray)‎, 14-Sep-15 10:15

How Much More Damage To This Country (Scotland) Can The SNP Do? (http://forum.caithness.org/showthread.php?245964-How-Much-More-Damage-To-This-Country-%28Scotland%29-Can-The-SNP-Do)
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-34234024 "Opposition parties accused Ms...
Started by cptdodger (http://forum.caithness.org/member.php?12527-cptdodger)‎, 13-Sep-15 12:42

Those threads were started by those opposed to Indyref 2 if i am not mistaken? And the only one to be started after an SNP press release was the latest one by CPT - this one - So it stands to reason that the only reason we are discussing indyref 2 on this board is because you guys want to - no one else is starting threads about it - not even Piratelassie. During the referendum campaign every single time Nicola Sturgeon was talking to press reporters she was asked about indyref 2 and she replied consistently all the way through as I have pointed out but until this week she has not put out any comment on when or if or how there will be indyref2.

The SNP is a party that believes in Independence for Scotland. That isnt going to change however as I have pointed out several times there is the business of everyday life to be getting on with as part of the UK and that is exactly what we will be doing.

Life moves on and people move on with it and whilst that doesn't mean they abandon their beliefs - it means other things take priority. Indyref2 may or may not happen - we shall have to see - it quite clearly is not a top priority for the SNP just now and its not a top priority for me either. You guys and your endless carping about it and then accusing me and others of not moving on is just nonsense.
There are other much more pressing issues and its time you guys caught up. Trade union debate yesterday - labour MPs abstained - without those abstentions the bill would have been defeated! Child Poverty debate today, shall we see what happens? Welfare reforms, new powers for Scotland, so many issues and all of them important and yet you guys want to talk about an independence referendum that might or might not happen.

On ya go then - im off to get my hair done and nails done for the big party I am attending on 18th Spetember. Music, dancing, great food, great fun. ;)

rob murray
15-Sep-15, 11:57
lets see - in the last few weeks alone we have had these threads started on Indyref 2

Joan Macalpine on Indy ref2 (http://forum.caithness.org/showthread.php?244179-Joan-Macalpine-on-Indy-ref2)
Started by BetterTogether (http://forum.caithness.org/member.php?28279-BetterTogether)‎, 29-Jul-15 10:13

Referedum mark 2 (http://forum.caithness.org/showthread.php?244038-Referedum-mark-2)
Salmon Speaking on the BBC's Andrew Marr programme, said the independance question was over the...
Started by rob murray (http://forum.caithness.org/member.php?5141-rob-murray)‎, 27-Jul-15 15:40

indy Ref 2 omission from SNP party conference agenda (http://forum.caithness.org/showthread.php?244454-Indy-Ref-2-omission-from-SNP-party-conference-agenda)
Started by BetterTogether (http://forum.caithness.org/member.php?28279-BetterTogether)‎, 04-Aug-15 23:08

Possible secondf referedum (http://forum.caithness.org/showthread.php?245993-Possible-secondf-referedum)
The SNP will set out the timescale for a possible second referendum on independence in its...
Started by rob murray (http://forum.caithness.org/member.php?5141-rob-murray)‎, 14-Sep-15 10:15

How Much More Damage To This Country (Scotland) Can The SNP Do? (http://forum.caithness.org/showthread.php?245964-How-Much-More-Damage-To-This-Country-(Scotland)-Can-The-SNP-Do)
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-34234024 "Opposition parties accused Ms...
Started by cptdodger (http://forum.caithness.org/member.php?12527-cptdodger)‎, 13-Sep-15 12:42

Those threads were started by those opposed to Indyref 2 if i am not mistaken? And the only one to be started after an SNP press release was the latest one by CPT - this one - So it stands to reason that the only reason we are discussing indyref 2 on this board is because you guys want to - no one else is starting threads about it - not even Piratelassie. During the referendum campaign every single time Nicola Sturgeon was talking to press reporters she was asked about indyref 2 and she replied consistently all the way through as I have pointed out but until this week she has not put out any comment on when or if or how there will be indyref2.

The SNP is a party that believes in Independence for Scotland. That isnt going to change however as I have pointed out several times there is the business of everyday life to be getting on with as part of the UK and that is exactly what we will be doing.

Life moves on and people move on with it and whilst that doesn't mean they abandon their beliefs - it means other things take priority. Indyref2 may or may not happen - we shall have to see - it quite clearly is not a top priority for the SNP just now and its not a top priority for me either. You guys and your endless carping about it and then accusing me and others of not moving on is just nonsense.
There are other much more pressing issues and its time you guys caught up. Trade union debate yesterday - labour MPs abstained - without those abstentions the bill would have been defeated! Child Poverty debate today, shall we see what happens? Welfare reforms, new powers for Scotland, so many issues and all of them important and yet you guys want to talk about an independence referendum that might or might not happen.

On ya go then - im off to get my hair done and nails done for the big party I am attending on 18th Spetember. Music, dancing, great food, great fun. ;)

Talk about moving the goal posts eh I will give you this your a master at it ! Thanks for the clarity on indy 2, as if we didnt know......orwellian double speak...its the SNP that have led the indy 2 stuff..... dont push it back on us........Also many thanks for the statement : "it quite clearly is not a top priority for the SNP just now" I hope all conned yes voters read your comment they have been led up the garden path by chancers then !!! What does it matter then on supposed new powers for Scotland....no matter what, the SNP will shout / raise the issue to grievance level but wont do nowt 100%... bet indy 2 threat will be raised though....keeps yur hard core yes suppolrt happy for the time being .UK issues on poverty / banking / capitalism ( as the agenda is wider than mere tinkering at the edges )....well we have to fully wait and see if the Labour party supports Corbyns line and its far to early to draw any meaningful conclusions at this stage. I take it your prefered nail colour is light blue tartan, ??

rob murray
15-Sep-15, 12:01
Watch your back for those Red ,White and Blue Swastika wavers. I've already been at the pointed end of the threats

What do you mean by this........... Red ,White and Blue Swastika wavers ?

BetterTogether
15-Sep-15, 12:19
Watch your back for those Red ,White and Blue Swastika wavers. I've already been at the pointed end of the threatsThat's just meant to be a deeply offensive comment.

cptdodger
15-Sep-15, 12:23
Watch your back for those Red ,White and Blue Swastika wavers. I've already been at the pointed end of the threats

And that comes as a surprise to you, writing comments like that ?

squidge
15-Sep-15, 12:27
Talk about moving the goal posts eh I will give you this your a master at it ! Thanks for the clarity on indy 2, as if we didnt know......orwellian double speak...its the SNP that have led the indy 2 stuff..... dont push it back on us........Also many thanks for the statement : "it quite clearly is not a top priority for the SNP just now" I hope all conned yes voters read your comment they have been led up the garden path by chancers then !!! What does it matter then on supposed new powers for Scotland....no matter what, the SNP will shout / raise the issue to grievance level but wont do nowt 100%... bet indy 2 threat will be raised though....keeps yur hard core yes suppolrt happy for the time being .UK issues on poverty / banking / capitalism ( as the agenda is wider than mere tinkering at the edges )....well we have to fully wait and see if the Labour party supports Corbyns line and its far to early to draw any meaningful conclusions at this stage. I take it your prefered nail colour is light blue tartan, ??

Double Speak? Are you kidding me? The priority for now is getting candidates in place and selected, getting a manifesto written and opposing the tory government whilst labour sort themselves out and decide whether they will unite behind their leader and dealing with the legislative process in Holyrood. Individually there are many members, many yes supporters from other parties and none for whom Indyref2 is a prioirty but if indyref2 was the number one priority for the SNP we would have a date and be campaigning. Independence remains a priority and a fundamental belief but as you keep telling us we lost the referenduma nd so it has taken a back seat for now. You and others starting repeated threads about it doesnt change that. Accusing me and others of always talking about it doesnt change that either. On this board it is YOU guys starting the threads, it is YOU guys going on and on and on about it - that is there clearly and unambiguously with the names of those that start the threads.

You are right though Rob - we need to wait and see what happens with Jeremy corbyn - it will be interesting for sure.

And light blue tartan wont go with my hat whatever made you think it would!:lol:

cptdodger
15-Sep-15, 12:34
Watch your back for those Red ,White and Blue Swastika wavers. I've already been at the pointed end of the threats

In actual fact this comment, and others along the same vein, is exactly what I was talking about when I started this thread. The damage SNP has done to Scotland is absolutely plain to see.

rob murray
15-Sep-15, 12:52
Double Speak? Are you kidding me? The priority for now is getting candidates in place and selected, getting a manifesto written and opposing the tory government and dealing with the legislative process in Holyrood. Individually there are many members, many yes supporters from other parties and none for whom Indyref2 is a prioirty but if indyref2 was the number one priority for the SNP we would have a date and be campaigning. Independence remains a priority and a fundamental belief but as you keep telling us we lost the referenduma nd so it has taken a back seat for now. You and others starting repeated threads about it doesnt change that. Accusing me and others of always talking about it doesnt change that either. On this board it is YOU guys starting the threads, it is YOU guys going on and on and on about it - that is there clearly and unambiguously with the names of those that start the threads.

You are right though Rob - we need to wait and see what happens with Jeremy corbyn - it will be interesting for sure.

And light blue tartan wont go with my hat whatever made you think it would!:lol:

I dont belive that that their are yes voters in any other party...maybe a very small %, but you know fine well the raison d etre of the SNP is and always will be independance so why vote for them if you dont want independance, the reason indy 2 has taken a back seat is not beause the yes vote lost, but as stated yet again, STurgeon will only call for one if she is sure of winning it....her OWN words.....maybe gie her a bell and check this clear implication being if she thought she could win she woud go for it....no matter how clever you are in changing words playing with semantics and sure we go on about it because ...and yet agin to repeat...its the SNP that trumpet it at every opportunity...take the week end and Corbyns elction...what was Sturgeons immediate response......if labour dont kick the tories out then.....indy2 / referedum ( possibly ) make your mind up its you thats confused........ Forgot about the hat lol lol get another one.....slightly red this time ?

rob murray
15-Sep-15, 12:54
That's just meant to be a deeply offensive comment.

ACh sticks and stones may break my bones etc etc if thats the best the guy can do.... well what can I say.......However if he has been at the recieiving end of threat,s then that is bad, as no one should be treated like that period

squidge
15-Sep-15, 13:12
I dont belive that that their are yes voters in any other party...maybe a very small %, but you know fine well the raison d etre of the SNP is and always will be independance so why vote for them if you dont want independance, the reason indy 2 has taken a back seat is not beause the yes vote lost, but as stated yet again, STurgeon will only call for one if she is sure of winning it....her OWN words.....maybe gie her a bell and check this clear implication being if she thought she could win she woud go for it....no matter how clever you are in changing words playing with semantics and sure we go on about it because ...and yet agin to repeat...its the SNP that trumpet it at every opportunity...take the week end and Corbyns elction...what was Sturgeons immediate response......if labour dont kick the tories out then.....indy2 / referedum ( possibly ) make your mind up its you thats confused........ Forgot about the hat lol lol get another one.....slightly red this time ?

I'm not confused. I support independence, I know the SNP support independence. I would like to see indyref2 but I know it is not a priority just now. That's because there are other things needing doing, other issues which will determine if and when there is another referendum including what happens with Labour and Jeremy Corbyn.

And you are nuts! A red hat? With MY colouring? Do you think it's a political event I'm going to lol? Ahhhh I get it now. You thought the party I referred to was something to do with the referendum anniversary? Honestly!!! And you guys think WE are obsessed. Life goes on Rob. My son is getting married on the 18th. It's a WEDDING I'm going to - politics will be the furthest thing from my mind. Like I said... Life moves on honey I just wish you guys could too. ;)

rob murray
15-Sep-15, 13:49
I'm not confused. I support independence, I know the SNP support independence. I would like to see indyref2 but I know it is not a priority just now. That's because there are other things needing doing, other issues which will determine if and when there is another referendum including what happens with Labour and Jeremy Corbyn.

And you are nuts! A red hat? With MY colouring? Do you think it's a political event I'm going to lol? Ahhhh I get it now. You thought the party I referred to was something to do with the referendum anniversary? Honestly!!! And you guys think WE are obsessed. Life goes on Rob. My son is getting married on the 18th. It's a WEDDING I'm going to - politics will be the furthest thing from my mind. Like I said... Life moves on honey I just wish you guys could too. ;)

The red hat illustrates your former political leanings.....Im no political anorak....and what would there be to celebrate at the referedum anniversary....you lost..... celebrate a loss....get real. Life does go on but you keep on avoiding the key issue...indy2....and Im going to keep at it cos unless Im nuts....indy2 has been a constant with the SNP you know damn well fine it has to be, or your support will go for you ( hard core ones )......the "other things need doing"...yep start with NHS Police Education Economy Rewables STrategy for starters and glad you are now admitting at last that the job of a government is to govern not constantlty carp and create a neverendum scenario, get cracking....buts that bull...and double speak.....indy2 is not a priority, as once again, and Im sick of repeating this...sturgeon has stated only when she thinks she can win will indy2 be held.........that infers that in the short term she cant win by her own words and deeds......Enjoy the wedding....."life moves on honey I just wish you guys could too".....thats the pot calling the kettle black isnt it...and you trying to ( and fialing ) to get the last word in.......have a good wedding, enjoy your brief respite from the dirty world of politics.

squidge
15-Sep-15, 14:08
How am I avoiding the issue..? Let's look back at my comments on the subject

1. The SNP support Independence for Scotland
2. I support independence for Scotland
3. I am a member of Women for Independence|independence for Women National Executive - I support Independrnce for Scotland
4. I am a member of the SNP I support Independence for Scotland
5.I want to see a second Indy ref
6.The SNP say it will only happen if people want a 2nd Indy ref and support of independence rises
7.I am happy to wait for a second Indy ref until support for Independence rises
8.The SNP are to outline the circumstances that would lead to a 2nd Indy ref in their manifesto
9.I think that is a Good thing.
10. The SNP are focusing on other issues just now like selections, austerity and government business
11.I am focusing on other issues just now, like refugees, fuel poverty, welfare reforms and work12. That does not mean the SNP are letting go of their commitment to Independence
13. That doesn't mean I'm letting go of my commitment to independence
14. I want to see an independent Scotland
15. The SNP want an independent scotland

Is there ANY of that which is unclear? Any of that which avoids the 2nd Indy ref issue? If I thought we would win or that it was right for Scotland I'd campaign for indyref2 to be tomorrow but we won't and it isn't just now. So let's just see what happens.

rob murray
15-Sep-15, 15:03
How am I avoiding the issue..? Let's look back at my comments on the subject

1. The SNP support Independence for Scotland
2. I support independence for Scotland
3. I am a member of Women for Independence|independence for Women National Executive - I support Independrnce for Scotland
4. I am a member of the SNP I support Independence for Scotland
5.I want to see a second Indy ref
6.The SNP say it will only happen if people want a 2nd Indy ref and support of independence rises
7.I am happy to wait for a second Indy ref until support for Independence rises
8.The SNP are to outline the circumstances that would lead to a 2nd Indy ref in their manifesto
9.I think that is a Good thing.
10. The SNP are focusing on other issues just now like selections, austerity and government business
11.I am focusing on other issues just now, like refugees, fuel poverty, welfare reforms and work12. That does not mean the SNP are letting go of their commitment to Independence
13. That doesn't mean I'm letting go of my commitment to independence
14. I want to see an independent Scotland
15. The SNP want an independent scotland

Is there ANY of that which is unclear? Any of that which avoids the 2nd Indy ref issue? If I thought we would win or that it was right for Scotland I'd campaign for indyref2 to be tomorrow but we won't and it isn't just now. So let's just see what happens.

A good clear comprehensive list although slighty repetitive

cptdodger
15-Sep-15, 15:25
If I thought we would win or that it was right for Scotland I'd campaign for indyref2 to be tomorrow but we won't and it isn't just now. So let's just see what happens.

Well thank goodness 55% of us voted no in the referendum then, because if it is not right for Scotland now, it certainly wasn't right for Scotland last September either.

rob murray
15-Sep-15, 15:41
Well thank goodness 55% of us voted no in the referendum then, because if it is not right for Scotland now, it certainly wasn't right for Scotland last September either.

If I voted yes, and listening to the SNP carping on and on about a re run at least weekly, Id be pretty hacked off and would want to know why indy2 is of the agenda why not now.....if this is the party line as articulated by the above then Id feel betrayed....I can see splits a comming. 45% maybe the high water point of the hell yes lets go campaign.

davth
15-Sep-15, 15:55
squidge
Why do you want to have another Scottish independence referendum when not even 12 months ago we had one which was democratically voted down?
Quite simply, the majority of those eligible to vote in Scotland do not want to break the union.

squidge
15-Sep-15, 16:00
It's not off the agenda. It's just not top of the priority list. And you wonder why my list was repetitive! Jeezo! Rob - It's ON the agenda - that's why it's appearing in the manifesto, it's not top priority which is how come it's not happening next week!

CPT - it being the right time is about people not anything else. Independence will happen when we can bring people with us on the journey, we couldn't do that last year. That doesn't mean that somehow Scotland couldn't have coped or afforded independence but that not enough people could see that. We didn't convince enough people. Our society and politics are changing on a week to week basis and will continue to do so. I believe that Scotland should be and will be independent. I don't know when that will be but if we carry on like this it will be sooner rather than later.

Davth I want another referendum because I want an independent Scotland and the only way for that to happen is through a referendum. BUT and at the risk of having to repeat myself again - I don't want it next week. I want people to want independence and when that is the case THEN I want another referendum. It's a bit like you wanting a new car, but knowing that you can't afford it, so still wanting a new car you have to wait until you CAN afford it. You don't stop wanting a new car - you just bide your time until you have enough saved to buy one.

BetterTogether
15-Sep-15, 16:02
Seems " I want " covers most options.

BetterTogether
15-Sep-15, 16:07
It's not off the agenda. It's just not top of the priority list. And you wonder why my list was repetitive! Jeezo! Rob - It's ON the agenda - that's why it's appearing in the manifesto, it's not top priority which is how come it's not happening next week! CPT - it being the right time is about people not anything else. Independence will happen when we can bring people with us on the journey, we couldn't do that last year. That doesn't mean that somehow Scotland couldn't have coped or afforded independence but that not enough people could see that. We didn't convince enough people. Our society and politics are changing on a week to week basis and will continue to do so. I believe that Scotland should be and will be independent. I don't know when that will be but if we carry on like this it will be sooner rather than later.Davth I want another referendum because I want an independent Scotland and the only way for that to happen is through a referendum. BUT and at the risk of having to repeat myself again - I don't want it next week. I want people to want independence and when that is the case THEN I want another referendum. It's a bit like you wanting a new car, but knowing that you can't afford it, so still wanting a new car you have to wait until you CAN afford it. You don't stop wanting a new car - you just bide your time until you have enough saved to buy one.In your opinion. Not held by the majority of the electorate in Scotland.

Valiant209
15-Sep-15, 16:11
In your opinion. Not held by the majority of the electorate in Scotland.

Opinions change else we wouldnt have elections every 5 years.

davth
15-Sep-15, 16:13
Davth I want another referendum because I want an independent Scotland and the only way for that to happen is through a referendum. BUT and at the risk of having to repeat myself again - I don't want it next week. I want people to want independence and when that is the case THEN I want another referendum. It's a bit like you wanting a new car, but knowing that you can't afford it, so still wanting a new car you have to wait until you CAN afford it. You don't stop wanting a new car - you just bide your time until you have enough saved to buy one.

Interesting scenario Squidge
If I buy a new car and subsequently realise that i cannot afford to run it, I can sell the car.

If we have another referendum and "buy" independance, there is no such sell on possibility.

Also if referendum 2 comes to light and once again the electorate vote it down, will there be calls for referendum 3 shortly afterwards?
Cameron was 100% correct when he described it as a neverendum and sincerely hope he tells Nicola to do one should she request a referendum in the near to mid term.

BetterTogether
15-Sep-15, 16:27
Opinions change else we wouldnt have elections every 5 years.

So you'd suggest we have referendums every 5yrs until you get the result you want.

Then we can have more to rejoin I guess.

Meanwhile Scotland as a business nation would be in ruins with the instability caused.

rob murray
15-Sep-15, 16:38
It's not off the agenda. It's just not top of the priority list. And you wonder why my list was repetitive! Jeezo! Rob - It's ON the agenda - that's why it's appearing in the manifesto, it's not top priority which is how come it's not happening next week!

CPT - it being the right time is about people not anything else. Independence will happen when we can bring people with us on the journey, we couldn't do that last year. That doesn't mean that somehow Scotland couldn't have coped or afforded independence but that not enough people could see that. We didn't convince enough people. Our society and politics are changing on a week to week basis and will continue to do so. I believe that Scotland should be and will be independent. I don't know when that will be but if we carry on like this it will be sooner rather than later.

Davth I want another referendum because I want an independent Scotland and the only way for that to happen is through a referendum. BUT and at the risk of having to repeat myself again - I don't want it next week. I want people to want independence and when that is the case THEN I want another referendum. It's a bit like you wanting a new car, but knowing that you can't afford it, so still wanting a new car you have to wait until you CAN afford it. You don't stop wanting a new car - you just bide your time until you have enough saved to buy one.

Not top of the priorty list...it was until the back peddling started, I noticed the language subtly changing about 6 - 8 weeks back....... and it should never have been top of the list in the first place, it cant happen next week can it.... so why make that daft point, and what will supposedly appear in the manifesto is a list of circumstances which COULD trigger off another referendum...but, and Im sick of saying this, according to Sturgeon there will be one only when she feels that the SNP can win it. Face reality, sturgeon and party members who toe the line ( ahem ) have to manage the expectations of people expecting an early indy 2 when she knows that the situation coupled with timing is all wrong..... the same expectations you are attempting to manage . WHy not talk straight, "Independence will happen when we can bring people with us on the journey, we couldn't do that last year. That doesn't mean that somehow Scotland couldn't have coped or afforded independence but that not enough people could see"....what utter rubbish and you show your true colours, what you are saying is that scotland could go it alone, could afford it, could cope but the blinkered no ers just couldnt see it.....blatant nonsensical propoganda...You and your likes havent answered the concerning issues of EU membership ( status and timing ) Economy ( Oil price / tax decreases ) Currency..... what / issues of banking / central bank etc....you can fool some popele some of the time Squidge but you cannot fool all the people all the time.

An example of expectation management

AN Ipsos Mori poll suggested that SNP supporters overwhelmingly support another referendum being held in the next five years
Ms Sturgeon believes a dramatic shift in the UK's political landscape, such as a vote for the UK to leave the EU, could be the catalyst she needs to hold and win a second referendum.
But she was facing the possibility of coming under pressure from within her own party, particularly from some of its tens of thousands of new members, for a commitment to another referendum to be included in the SNP manifesto ahead of next May's Scottish Parliament election.
In a bit to pre-empt that, she has announced that the manifesto will "set out what we consider are the circumstances and the timescale on which a second referendum might be appropriate". (http://forum.caithness.org/: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-34234024) ( ie the list of circumstances that could trigger another referendum )

Valiant209
15-Sep-15, 16:44
So you'd suggest we have referendums every 5yrs until you get the result you want. Then we can have more to rejoin I guess. Meanwhile Scotland as a business nation would be in ruins with the instability caused.
as i said peoples opinions change. If parties keep putting more compelling arguments to get us to vote for them every 5 years, then if the SNP puts an argument together then doesnt it also get a vote? Isnt that what democracy is all about? SNP arent saying we are going to have one tomorrow. They are saying and have been saying since the last referendum that if there was a fundimental difference in the way Scotand votes to the rest of the UK (for example the in/out Eu referendum) then that would be a reason. It still needs planning and still needs to be outlined which is what is being done.

rob murray
15-Sep-15, 16:54
as i said peoples opinions change. If parties keep putting more compelling arguments to get us to vote for them every 5 years, then if the SNP puts an argument together then doesnt it also get a vote? Isnt that what democracy is all about? SNP arent saying we are going to have one tomorrow. They are saying and have been saying since the last referendum that if there was a fundimental difference in the way Scotand votes to the rest of the UK (for example the in/out Eu referendum) then that would be a reason. It still needs planning and still needs to be outlined which is what is being done.

Yes thats perfectly true, but you use the word should....according to sturgeon, the manifesto in 2016 wil contain a list of scenarios that COULD trigger indy 2, the caveat being...indy 2 held only if she thought they would win, a second loss will finish any talk on indy 3....or are we going to live in 5 year cycles of uncertainty...good for business eh !

BetterTogether
15-Sep-15, 17:24
as i said peoples opinions change. If parties keep putting more compelling arguments to get us to vote for them every 5 years, then if the SNP puts an argument together then doesnt it also get a vote? Isnt that what democracy is all about? SNP arent saying we are going to have one tomorrow. They are saying and have been saying since the last referendum that if there was a fundimental difference in the way Scotand votes to the rest of the UK (for example the in/out Eu referendum) then that would be a reason. It still needs planning and still needs to be outlined which is what is being done.

It's beginning to feel a bit like the oh so democratic EU, if you don't vote the way we want you to, we will keep holding votes until we get the result we want.

Then that's, it no more votes you've made your final democratic choice and will never have to the option to change your mind.

Valiant209
15-Sep-15, 17:43
It's beginning to feel a bit like the oh so democratic EU, if you don't vote the way we want you to, we will keep holding votes until we get the result we want.

Then that's, it no more votes you've made your final democratic choice and will never have to the option to change your mind.
But we do that every 5 years for elections. But back to your topic This country wasnt damaged by just the SNP, its a factor of all who were involved but instead of working with each other or agreeing to disagree we constantly attack each other. Instead of posting how badly everyone is doing, how about we all start discussing how things can be improved with both sides. end of the day we all want what we think is best for our nation

davth
15-Sep-15, 17:49
But we do that every 5 years for elections. But back to your topic This country wasnt damaged by just the SNP, its a factor of all who were involved but instead of working with each other or agreeing to disagree we constantly attack each other. Instead of posting how badly everyone is doing, how about we all start discussing how things can be improved with both sides. end of the day we all want what we think is best for our nation

I dont buy that at all.
The division in todays Scotland is 100% the fault of Alex Salmond and his merry men

cptdodger
15-Sep-15, 18:21
This country wasnt damaged by just the SNP, its a factor of all who were involved

Whether you accept it or not, it was Alex Salmond and the SNP who were the driving force behind the Referendum. Yes the Country was, and continues to be damaged by the SNP.

Mr P Cannop
15-Sep-15, 19:42
why are you all so against the SNP ??

davth
15-Sep-15, 19:52
why are you all so against the SNP ?? Because they are a despicable bunch

cptdodger
15-Sep-15, 21:33
why are you all so against the SNP ??

I cannot make it any clearer than I already have.

golach
15-Sep-15, 22:18
why are you all so against the SNP ??Why not?...

BetterTogether
15-Sep-15, 22:22
So Nicola won't call a referendum unless she is confident of winning - which leads to the conclusion she has no such confidence?


The dream is dead time to move on !

Nothing to see here move along !

No refunds reruns or reimbursements for shattered illusions !

rob murray
16-Sep-15, 10:37
why are you all so against the SNP ??

Cos despite losing the referendum and getting on with things, they keep carping on about a second referendum, even though their leader is now on record as stating she would only call another referendum if she feels they can win it...they also intend putting a list of situations that COULD....not would....trigger of another referedum in their manifesto necxt year...so we dont know what is going on and all the uncertainty effects Scotland....also I am no more or less a scot than SNP voters who seem to think that voting no at the referedum somehow questions your "scottishness"....also read what you own MP has to say and has said about people who voted no...theyve also made a pigs ear on NHS, Police re organistion, and Education and have still failed to explain to us what currency an independant scotland would use, how an independant Scotland will "quickly" get into EU and how they intend finacning their programmes given the massive loss in OIl revenues....and we are supposed to believe that it will be "alright on the night" eh ....nah nah my man ... will that do you ??

rob murray
16-Sep-15, 10:39
So Nicola won't call a referendum unless she is confident of winning - which leads to the conclusion she has no such confidence?


The dream is dead time to move on !

Nothing to see here move along !

No refunds reruns or reimbursements for shattered illusions !

The dream died last September or rather we woke up from the nightmare

cptdodger
16-Sep-15, 11:39
So Nicola won't call a referendum unless she is confident of winning -

What I can't understand is, how will she know? The polls were certainly not reliable last year, so she would be daft to call a referendum on the strength of doing more polls, surely ?

dozy
16-Sep-15, 11:41
why are you all so against the SNP ??Because Unionist what the live in a Tory Utopia with one red white and blue flag. A Westminster that rules without question . Where those who dare to question or what change are treated as the enemy . That's why the SNP can do nothing right and Cameron's Crew can do nothing wrong . It's Orwells 1984 as Unionist want it ,King Camerons photo will on doubt be added to the Union Jack . I just love the flag followers, their just so funny with their head in a bucket views. I wish them all the best. Some of us have done our bit of queen and country only to find out the truth ,which is far from from the picture some unionist would have you believe . Please don't comment . I just wish that if the SNP are so bad why do they up stick and move to the England they believe is the land of milk and honey .

rob murray
16-Sep-15, 11:48
[QUOTE=dozy;1130453]Because Unionist what the live in a Tory Utopia with one red white and blue flag. A Westminster that rules without question . Where those who dare to question or what change are treated as the enemy . That's why the SNP can do nothing right and Cameron's Crew can do nothing wrong . It's Orwells 1984 as Unionist want it ,King Camerons photo will on doubt be added to the Union Jack . I just love the flag followers, their just so funny with their head in a bucket views. I wish them all the best. Some of us have done our bit of queen and country only to find out the truth ,which is far from from the picture some unionist would have you believe . Please don't comment . I just wish that if the SNP are so bad why do they up stick and move the the England they believe is the land of milk and honey .[/Q

What about Labour / LD's / Greens....are you tarring them all with the tory brush ??? Camerons crew....lol lol lol .......why cant you accept that voting no was not a TORY vote mate....get real. Im a scot mate and going nowhere ths is my country as well as yours.....aha just sussed that your the geezer who made the claim ...."Watch your back for those Red ,White and Blue Swastika wavers. I've already been at the pointed end of the threats".... so you claim...in yer dreams mate !

cptdodger
16-Sep-15, 15:00
Because Unionist what the live in a Tory Utopia with one red white and blue flag. A Westminster that rules without question . Where those who dare to question or what change are treated as the enemy . That's why the SNP can do nothing right and Cameron's Crew can do nothing wrong . It's Orwells 1984 as Unionist want it ,King Camerons photo will on doubt be added to the Union Jack . I just love the flag followers, their just so funny with their head in a bucket views. I wish them all the best. Some of us have done our bit of queen and country only to find out the truth ,which is far from from the picture some unionist would have you believe . Please don't comment . I just wish that if the SNP are so bad why do they up stick and move to the England they believe is the land of milk and honey .

Is that honestly the best you can come up with - "move to England", "red white and blue swastika wavers" ? You are the definition of a bad loser, but you carry on with the insults if it makes you feel a bit better.

cptdodger
16-Sep-15, 15:11
Please don't comment .

And by the way, if you don't want people to comment -don't post in a public forum.

BetterTogether
16-Sep-15, 15:19
Seems someone doesn't realise that sort of language they abuse their own flag !

Let's not forget what the blue represents and where it directly comes from.

Shows the feeble mindset of some when that's their best form of debate.


Mind I doubt a certain person will condemn it.

rob murray
16-Sep-15, 15:20
And by the way, if you don't want people to comment -don't post in a public forum.

Little wonder the geezer didnt want any comments, well tough.........fancy going back to the land of milk and honey....???

rob murray
16-Sep-15, 15:21
Seems someone doesn't realise that sort of language they abuse their own flag ! Let's not forget what the blue represents and where it directly comes from. Shows the feeble mindset of some when that's their best form of debate.

Good point, theres blue in the union jack.........

cptdodger
16-Sep-15, 15:37
Little wonder the geezer didnt want any comments, well tough.........fancy going back to the land of milk and honey....???

I used to live in the "land of milk and honey" although that's not quite how I would describe the Medway Towns to be honest !

BetterTogether
16-Sep-15, 15:39
Maybe someone should launch a UK petition to the Govt that requests that any future referendum instigated by the SNP is followed up by a second one just to make sure that we haven't changed our mind before being pushed across the line of no return. If it's fair that the SNP is allowed to call a second referendum then surely it's fair we are allowed another as a check and balance.

cptdodger
16-Sep-15, 15:46
Maybe someone should launch a UK petition to the Govt that requests that any future referendum instigated by the SNP is followed up by a second one just to make sure that we haven't changed our mind before being pushed across the line of no return. If it's fair that the SNP is allowed to call a second referendum then surely it's fair we are allowed another as a check and balance.

I quite agree with that, no matter how many referendums they have, they will not be at all happy until the vote is yes. Which is fine for them, but when it all goes pear shaped, it is not going to be so easy to rejoin the Union, in fact I can see the rest of the UK telling Scotland where to go if they tried that.

cptdodger
16-Sep-15, 15:48
Did you see this ? The point of publishing it now is beyond me, apart from the fact he obviously misses the limelight - http://www.thecourier.co.uk/news/politics/a-country-reborn-a-democracy-reclaimed-what-alex-salmond-would-have-said-if-scotland-had-voted-for-independence-1.900387

rob murray
16-Sep-15, 16:07
I quite agree with that, no matter how many referendums they have, they will not be at all happy until the vote is yes. Which is fine for them, but when it all goes pear shaped, it is not going to be so easy to rejoin the Union, in fact I can see the rest of the UK telling Scotland where to go if they tried that.

If its ever a yes vote then thats that, as we would need currency / central banking, EU membership / disentangling from UK government departments etc etc....face it England would benefit from Scotland going off.......lower wages / light welfare down there, will attract and create more jobs in England...why would an employer want to come to Scotland and pay higher wages / possibly more tax....if Scotland ever went we would face a race to the bottom as both countries will compete for new work and someone has to lose out.

rob murray
16-Sep-15, 16:09
Did you see this ? The point of publishing it now is beyond me, apart from the fact he obviously misses the limelight - http://www.thecourier.co.uk/news/politics/a-country-reborn-a-democracy-reclaimed-what-alex-salmond-would-have-said-if-scotland-had-voted-for-independence-1.900387

AYe saw it see this bittie here.... “Our friends in Europe should understand with total clarity that Scotland’s future lies as a fully-engaged participant in the European Union.“Our path is towards inclusion and co-operation, not isolation. “But those matters are for another day....those matters ...what matters....the fact that we would at the time of his speech not be in the EU....and a matter for another day.....just shows he was making it all up as he went along....

Mr P Cannop
16-Sep-15, 16:31
there will be another referendum within the next 5 years

rob murray
16-Sep-15, 16:32
there will be another referendum within the next 5 years

Fa telt ye at Mr Cannop ?

BetterTogether
16-Sep-15, 17:48
Did you see this ? The point of publishing it now is beyond me, apart from the fact he obviously misses the limelight - http://www.thecourier.co.uk/news/politics/a-country-reborn-a-democracy-reclaimed-what-alex-salmond-would-have-said-if-scotland-had-voted-for-independence-1.900387Yes well that's he might of said had his wee dream come true but below is the reality of Alex Salmond after the referendum

davth
16-Sep-15, 18:03
there will be another referendum within the next 5 years

they reckon the EU referendum will be in 2017 so I guess you are probably correct.

BetterTogether
16-Sep-15, 18:04
Unless of course Scotland votes to leave the EU then the SNP are up the creek without a paddle.

davth
16-Sep-15, 18:07
Unless of course Scotland votes to leave the EU then the SNP are up the creek without a paddle.

Well I was referring to the actual EU referendum, being the referendum which will occur in the next 5 years.

BetterTogether
16-Sep-15, 18:24
Well I was referring to the actual EU referendum, being the referendum which will occur in the next 5 years.

Aye I understood that ! I meant if the EU referendum count shows the majority of the Scottish Electorate vote to leave the UK then the SNP can't claim they are representing the Scottish people if they force a referendum on that basis.

Same with trident current polls show the larger percentage of Scottish electorate either want trident or another nuclear deterrent so at the moment they can't claim that as a reason either.

If they are to launch another referendum it would have to be on an issue which shows they have the clear and unequivocal support of the majority of The Scottish electorate for another referendum.

At the moment Ms Sturgeon and the SNP party know full well they do not have sufficient support to win a referendum, what they are doing is behaving like opportunistic predators awaiting a moment of weakness to strike.

bekisman
16-Sep-15, 19:04
Because Unionist what the live in a Tory Utopia with one red white and blue flag. A Westminster that rules without question . Where those who dare to question or what change are treated as the enemy . That's why the SNP can do nothing right and Cameron's Crew can do nothing wrong . It's Orwells 1984 as Unionist want it ,King Camerons photo will on doubt be added to the Union Jack . I just love the flag followers, their just so funny with their head in a bucket views. I wish them all the best. Some of us have done our bit of queen and country only to find out the truth ,which is far from from the picture some unionist would have you believe . Please don't comment . I just wish that if the SNP are so bad why do they up stick and move to the England they believe is the land of milk and honey .
'Move to England? "
There are more Scots in England than any city in Scotland. It might sound surprising, but according to the latest census figures, there are about 750,000 people born in Scotland who live south of the border. That's more than the population of Edinburgh or Glasgow" Wonder if it was 'the milk and honey' Dozy ?(www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-27655496)

rob murray
16-Sep-15, 19:30
they reckon the EU referendum will be in 2017 so I guess you are probably correct.

Utter tripe...............................go back to sleep another conned man !

davth
16-Sep-15, 19:48
Utter tripe...............................go back to sleep another conned man !
Well if there is Not to be an EU referendum.
Then that's great news for us 55% ers
You must be privvy to more than I
Anyway im off back to sleep :roll:

rob murray
16-Sep-15, 20:58
Well if there is Not to be an EU referendum.
Then that's great news for us 55% ers
You must be privvy to more than I
Anyway im off back to sleep :roll:

Im not privy to anything ....why dont you follow events......sturgeon has stated that 2016 manifesto will contain a list of issues that COULD ie not WOULD trigger off indy 2 with the caveat that she would only conduct indy2 if she was sure of winning.....so to me that means no indy 2 for a very, very long time...enjoy yer sleep

davth
16-Sep-15, 21:03
Im not privy to anything ....why dont you follow events......sturgeon has stated that 2016 manifesto will contain a list of issues that COULD ie not WOULD trigger off indy 2 with the caveat that she would only conduct indy2 if she was sure of winning.....so to me that means no indy 2 for a very, very long time...enjoy yer sleep

They were sure of winning last time, only to have their backsides handed to them in an embarrassing fashion.
hopefully we will never see another referendum on Scottish independance.
Besides that, you completely missed the point of my post #112

rob murray
16-Sep-15, 21:23
They were sure of winning last time, only to have their backsides handed to them in an embarrassing fashion.
hopefully we will never see another referendum on Scottish independance.
Besides that, you completely missed the point of my post #112

Yes I have missed your point re 112....care to elaborate on it ?

davth
16-Sep-15, 22:03
Yes I have missed your point re 112....care to elaborate on it ? You could try reading the posts in context, then go back to sleep and post less tripe....