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BetterTogether
28-Jul-15, 10:20
It appears their is dissent within the SNP ranks over the Fracking ban with clarification required on the moratorium.

http://www.heraldscotland.com/news/13503045.SNP_chiefs_face_fracking_ban_call/

rob murray
28-Jul-15, 12:29
well well, and sturgeon was in talks with frackers last week, with a low oil price she has to get dough from somewhere as she aint got enough without raising taxes next year to honour anti austerity measures amongst many other pledges, I didnt know anti fracking played a part in swaying no voters !!! Key comment : "Anybody critical of the SNP faces a barrage of accusations of undermining the SNP and the Scottish Government... of scaremongering. But the reality is the SNP government has got to be held to account like any other."

John Wilson, the MSP who quit the SNP last September, submitted questions in March and despite being told in April he would get a reply from Mr Ewing "as soon as possible", is still waiting. Mr Wilson, who sits as an independent but will stand as a Green candidate next year, said: "I find the Scottish Government is being disingenuous. It would be useful if they came clean sooner rather than later on whether they intend to allow fracking and UCG.
"It would be interesting to find out if the First Minister and Energy Minister have been pulling the wool over the eyes of not only the electorate but a large number of party members during the Westminster campaign who wore anti-fracking badges with the SNP logo on them.
"Anybody critical of the SNP faces a barrage of accusations of undermining the SNP and the Scottish Government... of scaremongering. But the reality is the SNP government has got to be held to account like any other."
During the general election campaign, the SNP adopted the 'Frack Off' slogan and presented itself as anti-fracking with many members and parliamentarians strongly opposed. In his maiden speech at Westminster, Martyn Day, the MP for Linlithgow and East Falkirk said of fracking "I just dinnae like it" and vowed to oppose any applications.

squidge
28-Jul-15, 12:46
How is a healthy discussion within a party on energy policy "dissent"? The SNP have said there approach will be evidence based and that they will consult widely before deciding to make their policy decisions. At least these are likely to be raised at conference for the members to vote on. There are supporters on both sides of the argument within the party and those arguments are being heard right now. That's a healthy thing actually.

rob murray
28-Jul-15, 13:07
Healthy discussion over fracking....why should we the free people of Scotland be dictated to by SNP "policy" over what is a process widely recoginsed by all to be very environmentally unfriendly...it shouldnt be even on the agenda..just as you shower walked away from nuclear still with a low oil price you need money from somewhere...this is shameful risking serious helath issues for money to get you out a hole !!!!

Fracking uses a toxic chemical cocktail known as fracking fluid.

Companies using fracking fluid have resisted disclosing the contents of fracking fluid, claiming the information is proprietary. However, samples from well sites indicate that the fluid contains: formaldehyde, acetic acids, citric acids, and boric acids, among hundreds of other contaminants.
It has recently come to light that, despite the illegality of the action, companies have been caught using diesel fuel in the fracking fluid (http://thetimes-tribune.com/news/details-few-on-diesel-used-in-pa-fracking-1.1098916#axzz1CqTB3dKd).
Fracking removes millions of gallons of precious freshwater from the water cycle.

Each well uses between two and five million gallons of locally-sourced freshwater which will be permanently contaminated by ground contaminants and toxic chemicals contained in the fracking fluid.
About half of this water returns to the surface, where it is stored in steel containers until it can be injected deep underground in oil and gas waste wells.
No one is entirely sure what happens to the other half of the water used in the process. Our best guess is that the water remains underground, though there are indications that at least some of this toxic cocktail makes its way back into the water supply.
Fracking causes a range of environmental problems.

At least eight other states have reported surface, ground, and drinking water contamination due to fracking.
In Pennsylvania, over 1,400 environmental violations have been attributed to deep gas wells utilizing fracking practices.
Pollution from truck traffic, chemical contamination around storage tanks, and habitat fragmentation and damage from drilling to environmentally sensitive areas have are all related to fracking.

Thats the GReen support gone then eh !!

cptdodger
28-Jul-15, 13:22
How is a healthy discussion within a party on energy policy "dissent"? The SNP have said there approach will be evidence based and that they will consult widely before deciding to make their policy decisions. At least these are likely to be raised at conference for the members to vote on. There are supporters on both sides of the argument within the party and those arguments are being heard right now. That's a healthy thing actually.

How come then it's healthy for them to discuss things, yet on this forum, we get shot down for it? The only reason, we are referred to as SNP bashers, is, the people that think we are tell us we are going round in circles, repeating the same old things. Well, nobody is forcing anybody to read or take part in these discussions, and maybe Nicola Sturgeon, needs to get a tighter grip on what her MSP's (Salmond) are saying in public.

rob murray
28-Jul-15, 13:27
How is a healthy discussion within a party on energy policy "dissent"? The SNP have said there approach will be evidence based and that they will consult widely before deciding to make their policy decisions. At least these are likely to be raised at conference for the members to vote on. There are supporters on both sides of the argument within the party and those arguments are being heard right now. That's a healthy thing actually.

Evidence based....just get the Greens in they will tell you all you need to know

rob murray
28-Jul-15, 13:43
How is a healthy discussion within a party on energy policy "dissent"? The SNP have said there approach will be evidence based and that they will consult widely before deciding to make their policy decisions. At least these are likely to be raised at conference for the members to vote on. There are supporters on both sides of the argument within the party and those arguments are being heard right now. That's a healthy thing actually.

AH come off it ......fracking is unhealthy full stop...whats there to debate ! If they do "adopt" fracking then brilliant, as there will be wide spread community protests....as peoples eyes will be really opened. The SNP dont have a 100% mandate and I suspect defectors or SNP voters abstaining from voting for them in future elections should this poisonous nonsense go ahead......still 2016 they have to deal with welfate cuts...the party of anti austerity...put up or shut up or raise our taxes

BetterTogether
28-Jul-15, 14:27
I doubt you'll get much sense on it until after the elections then it will be snuck in to minimise its impact and not lose to many votes.

rob murray
28-Jul-15, 14:44
I doubt you'll get much sense on it until after the elections then it will be snuck in to minimise its impact and not lose to many votes.

This is so senstive...its up there with nuclear... that it will be out and will cause pademonium amongst the cenral belt electorate in particular...you cannot keep a fracking intent a secret...faslane protests will have nothing on this !!!!

rob murray
28-Jul-15, 15:41
Is this what a poster called SNP bashing or merely drawing public attention to what will be a very contentious issue ??

BetterTogether
28-Jul-15, 16:07
Is this what a poster called SNP bashing or merely drawing public attention to what will be a very contentious issue ??

I think it's fairly safe to say if it's anything to do with Westminster it would be considered dealing with outrageous unjustified barely legitimate government that runs roughshod over the will of the majority of the electorate.

If it's anything to do with Holyrood it's an unjustified attack on a legitimately elected government that has the will of the whole electorate behind it.

rob murray
28-Jul-15, 16:18
I think it's fairly safe to say if it's anything to do with Westminster it would be considered dealing with outrageous unjustified barely legitimate government that runs roughshod over the will of the majority of the electorate.

If it's anything to do with Holyrood it's an unjustified attack on a legitimately elected government that has the will of the whole electorate behind it.

Thats Orwellian double speak my man....but on the money...fracking, should they go for it even in a pilot project way, and I can see them doing it as they are cornered fiscally, ( with low oil prices ) and come 2016 have to deliver their massaged welfare benefits....I mean did they not spout that they were anti austerity ??....so whose paying for it, fracking licenses or income tax increases..... both issues can prove very divisive.

BetterTogether
28-Jul-15, 16:29
Thats Orwellian double speak my man....but on the money...fracking, should they go for it even in a pilot project way, and I can see them doing it as they are cornered fiscally, ( with low oil prices ) and come 2016 have to deliver their massaged welfare benefits....I mean did they not spout that they were anti austerity ??....so whose paying for it, fracking licenses or income tax increases..... both issues can prove very divisive.

They are between a rock and a hard place.

If they increase taxes people will go off them, if the remove prescription charges people will go off them the same goes for unfreezing council tax. If they go down the fracking route then all hell will break lose and the Green Machine will swarm all over them and create public demonstrations.

Slowly but surely things are coming to light by the time we get to the next block of elections they'll be plenty of fuel for the fire, it's whether or not the opposition parties can get themselves into a fit state to give them a run for their money.

No doubt by that time the electorate will be starting to realise that 56MPs in Westminster aren't actually achieving much either.

rob murray
28-Jul-15, 16:35
Seems my hunch wis right, nae oil dosh so the bar stewards are planning in decimating the environment on land to plug the gap . Fracking, which sees wells drilled deep into the earth before water, sand and chemicals pumped in to release gas trapped in shale rock, could prove potentially lucrative for the Scottish economy and deputy First Minister John Swinney has already called for taxes it might generate to be assigned to Holyrood.
Ineos chief Jim Ratcliffe, who met privately with Nicola Sturgeon has said he received private assurances from the SNP Government that it was "not against" the technique. The firm, which has embarked on a PR drive to win over public opinion, does not plan to frack for at least three years

Sturgeon is an out right chancer and liar. And Ineos.... that wouldnt be the same criminals that locked workers out of the Grangemouth plant and threatened to close it down. Tartan tories eh, on the one hand masqerading as the anti usterity party knowing fully well fine that they wouldnt have the money to top up welfare benefits and on the other hand sucking up to and making back room deals with corporate criminals who blackmailed their entire workforce !!!

And if you see this as SNP bashing then your 100% right...what a shower of devious clowns.....except for the MP's in westminster who rumbled the plot and are now calling for clarity.... to them a big thank you and well done !!!!!

rob murray
28-Jul-15, 16:41
They are between a rock and a hard place.

If they increase taxes people will go off them, if the remove prescription charges people will go off them the same goes for unfreezing council tax. If they go down the fracking route then all hell will break lose and the Green Machine will swarm all over them and create public demonstrations.

Slowly but surely things are coming to light by the time we get to the next block of elections they'll be plenty of fuel for the fire, it's whether or not the opposition parties can get themselves into a fit state to give them a run for their money.

No doubt by that time the electorate will be starting to realise that 56MPs in Westminster aren't actually achieving much either.

Greens will make progress, Tories will edge forward, Labour may make some strides if they get the right POLICIES not personalitys, but times against them , LD's may slightly progress, I predict a low turn out, as many people will be disillisioned that theres nae referedum 2, obvious cracks will have appeared, non delivery on promises etc and still an SNP majority overall, its the next term that that they will get hit. The 56...nowt to do with Holyrood and tactically theyve got it wrong people will see that over time as nothing of any substance will ever be achieved. SO worst case scenarios comming home to roost...and still the blind will bleat and point and bawl and shout...

BetterTogether
28-Jul-15, 16:49
What you have to remember is that the current SNP party membership is made up from people of wildly divergent political views all bound together by the hope of Independence, the longer the SNP hold out on calling another referendum the more cracks will appear within the party, no different to any other party in reality but at least with other parties they start off with similar political ideologies not just one issue holding them together.

The trick is whether they can hold it all together long enough to get what they want or whether Westminster is able to play a sufficiently tacticle long game to allow the fractures to become deep and unhealable.

rob murray
28-Jul-15, 16:57
What you have to remember is that the current SNP party membership is made up from people of wildly divergent political views all bound together by the hope of Independence, the longer the SNP hold out on calling another referendum the more cracks will appear within the party, no different to any other party in reality but at least with other parties they start off with similar political ideologies not just one issue holding them together.

The trick is whether they can hold it all together long enough to get what they want or whether Westminster is able to play a sufficiently tacticle long game to allow the fractures to become deep and unhealable.

Yep and they aint gonna get indy...so the Johnny come latelys and bandwagoneers..will offski

rob murray
28-Jul-15, 17:01
How is a healthy discussion within a party on energy policy "dissent"? The SNP have said there approach will be evidence based and that they will consult widely before deciding to make their policy decisions. At least these are likely to be raised at conference for the members to vote on. There are supporters on both sides of the argument within the party and those arguments are being heard right now. That's a healthy thing actually.

AM I to assume that your party would accept fracking and hopping into bed ( metaphorically speaking ) with corporate gangaters... whats there to discuss eh and if they decide to can I assume you will dowon the chancers????

BetterTogether
28-Jul-15, 22:32
Doesn't seem like everything is quite as clear as it may first seem to be.


https://theferret.scot/cluff-accused-of-guilt-tripping-ministers-over-coal-gas-plans/

rob murray
29-Jul-15, 09:17
Doesn't seem like everything is quite as clear as it may first seem to be.


https://theferret.scot/cluff-accused-of-guilt-tripping-ministers-over-coal-gas-plans/

Well well this explains some of the skullduggery going on...why dont they just come clean on the whole fracking issues....a bit of honesty before the whole thing turns on them........

BetterTogether
29-Jul-15, 09:44
Now the man from Ineos seems to think it's just a matter of time, maybe after an election.


http://www.scotsman.com/news/scotland/top-stories/ineos-scottish-government-not-against-fracking-1-3831148

rob murray
29-Jul-15, 10:04
Now the man from Ineos seems to think it's just a matter of time, maybe after an election.


http://www.scotsman.com/news/scotland/top-stories/ineos-scottish-government-not-against-fracking-1-3831148

INEO.....shame on the SNP dealing with these gangsters and in secret...little wonder they havent publisised this !

BetterTogether
29-Jul-15, 10:24
INEO.....shame on the SNP dealing with these gangsters and in secret...little wonder they havent publisised this ! Seems the duplicity of this Government knows no depths.

BetterTogether
29-Jul-15, 10:45
Now we have some internal division according to this article with the Trade unionists calling for a blanket ban.

http://www.heraldscotland.com/news/13504807.SNP_trade_unionists_in_push_for_party_to_ adopt_total_fracking_ban/?ref=twtrec

rob murray
29-Jul-15, 10:53
Now we have some internal division according to this article with the Trade unionists calling for a blanket ban.

http://www.heraldscotland.com/news/13504807.SNP_trade_unionists_in_push_for_party_to_ adopt_total_fracking_ban/?ref=twtrec

ANd I should think so, once the general public learn the facts behind fracking there will be a national outcry ( SNP zealots wont of course, unless it happens in their back yards )

!TRADE unionists within the SNP are pushing for a total ban on fracking across Scotland, as the party leadership comes under growing pressure from members to adopt a tougher stance against unconventional energy extraction techniques"

Unconvential and unproven dodgy extraction techniques lead by a INEO a very dodgy company