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rob murray
27-Jul-15, 15:40
Salmon

Speaking on the BBC's Andrew Marr programme, said the independance question was over the timing which was "in the hands of Nicola Sturgeon".
The SNP MP argued there were three things driving the issue forward.
He said these were a failure to deliver on the so-called "vow", the possible outcome of the EU referendum and "divergent views" over austerity cuts.


Sturgeon

"It will be my ultimate decision, in line with the democratic decision-making processes of the SNP, to determine whether or not there is a commitment to a second referendum in the SNP manifesto for the Scottish election.
"And in due course we will take that decision and take that decision based on what we consider to be in the best interests of the country."
The first minister said she believed "one day" there would be another independence referendum, but that it required a change in circumstances from last year's vote.

If Salmon and Sturgeon both agree on what "we / they consider to be in the best interests of the country and there is a change in circumstances from last year's vote". ( ie last year there was no tory majority / austerity cuts, smith commission is according to SNP falling short of SNP requirements and theres going to be an EU referendum, at 2 least material changes from 2015 referendum ) ....then 2016 = referendum mark 2

Or am I seeing it wrong and is Salmon the back seat driver and puppet master, as the only word worth looking at is "timing"...

cptdodger
27-Jul-15, 16:00
That's how I see it, and oddly enough, listening to him yesterday, I thought he was pulling her strings. As far as I am concerned, the Country spoke on the 18th of September last year, and the majority (which is all we needed ) of us said no. Salmond said before the vote, this was a once in a generation vote, what he forgot to say out loud was, unless we lose. Which they did, and now it's a case of - here we go again, and again until they get the decision they want. Because if they do'nt there is no purpose to their existing as a political party.

They should have been upfront and honest from the start and just called themselves the Scottish Independence Party !

rob murray
27-Jul-15, 16:08
OK lets suppose that the SNP wlak 2016 Holyrood elections ( which they will pending a catastrophe ) and win the second referedum ( current polls show yes at 47% no at 53% ) are we not back re inventing the wheel, an independnat Scotland wishes tobecome an EU state and Salmon said last time round that membership could be negotiated in the relatively short period between a ‘yes’ vote in September 2014 and actual separation in spring 2016... ie 18 months start to finish.... yet on a visit to the Scottish Parliament, Ivan Grdesic, the Croatian ambassador to the UK, said nations wanting to join the EU are forced to “take pretty much what is offered”. new accession countries to the EU have to sign up to terms that are decided in Brussels without any meaningful “negotiating process. The EU authorities take a dim view of applicants asking for opt-outs from the various European treaties, he suggested, as this indicates they “don’t want to take the responsibility of membership”.

So we take whats offered and we have to adopt the euro there is no opt out clause. Given this what currency, can we use between a yes vote and gaining entry to the EU ? ie what do we use in the gap period. Cant be the pound as thats BOE territory...surely ?


But are we swapping Tory London ( BOE ) for another hard task master eg the European Central Bank, whose role is to maintain price stability within the eurozone The basic tasks, as defined in Article 3 of the Statute,are to define and implement the monetary policy for the Eurozone, to conduct foreign exchange operations,operations of the financial market infrastructure and the technical platform for settlement of securities in Europe. The ECB has, under Article 16 of its Statute, the exclusive right to authorise the issuance of euro banknotes ( controlling the money supply, print more / print less )
The ECB is governed by European law directly, but its set-up resembles that of a corporation in the sense that the ECB has shareholders and stock capital....so we swap the city of London for another gang, controlling money policy, and markets...meet the new boss ( take a bow Mrs Merkel !!!! )

rob murray
27-Jul-15, 16:12
That's how I see it, and oddly enough, listening to him yesterday, I thought he was pulling her strings. As far as I am concerned, the Country spoke on the 18th of September last year, and the majority (which is all we needed ) of us said no. Salmond said before the vote, this was a once in a generation vote, what he forgot to say out loud was, unless we lose. Which they did, and now it's a case of - here we go again, and again until they get the decision they want. Because if they do'nt there is no purpose to their existing as a political party.

They should have been upfront and honest from the start and just called themselves the Scottish Independence Party !

AGreed....they are the National Scottish Party ( NSP ) the defacto one state party, the polls indicate a narrowing ie yes moving to 47%, but the same issues are in place as last time, you know the big big issues that Salmon fudged...what will our currency be, the time taken to get into EU, how we manage the gap between a yes vote and gaining EU membership, the fact that we cannot have any opt outs over EU membership...you know the real detail behind the bawling and shouting ! A more realistic option would be to focus on timing...ie get the country moving, convince big busines and finanial houses to stay put it is really all about timing... but Salmond is the gambler he cant help himself he wnats to push now...but as I said the missing detail "unavailable" last time round will come up again and again

BetterTogether
27-Jul-15, 16:13
I'm pretty sure every single one of us heard quite clearly it was " once in a generation" or once in a lifetime opportunity " last time around.
Well this shows that these particular politicians word is really not worth a Jot. Ten months later it's back on the table being bandied about by SNP MPs on social media, Sturgeon hasn't been drawn on a date stating its a decision she will make when the time is right, nothing to do with the electorate.
Salmond says it's inevitable when his boss is out of the country.

If we can't trust those in charge to be honest on major issues how can they be trusted elsewhere.

They are very good at diverting attention down to Westminster about constitutional issues but become very coy when their own track record here in Scotland is talked about.

Local MPs go deathly silent when their own actions are called into question with no accountability or action taken.

Then out there in the ether we have political spectators asking if Salmond is like Putin, removing himself from office and putting in a subordinate only to come back at an opportune moment as Scotland's great saviour.

As far as I can see nothing is beyond these pair of political chancers and their legion of decidedly dodgy MPs parachuted into consitutuencies many with little or no prior experience except for being members of the SNP and so far failing magnificently to actually do anything.

Ask any of their supporters to name a successful policy introduced by the SNP in the last 8 yrs they go quiet.

Ask any of their supporters for an overwhelming success for bringing prosperity to Scotland they go quiet.

Since the general election what have any of them actually done to make the lives of the people Scotland's lives better.

Quibble over constitutional issues is about it and throw their principles out of the window on purely English issues.

BetterTogether
27-Jul-15, 16:21
AGreed....they are the National Scottish Party ( NSP ) the defacto one state party, the polls indicate a narrowing ie yes moving to 47%, but the same issues are in place as last time, you know the big big issues that Salmon fudged...what will our currency be, the time taken to get into EU, how we manage the gap between a yes vote and gaining EU membership, the fact that we cannot have any opt outs over EU membership...you know the real detail behind the bawling and shouting ! A more realistic option would be to focus on timing...ie get the country moving, convince big busines and finanial houses to stay put it is really all about timing... but Salmond is the gambler he cant help himself he wnats to push now...but as I said the missing detail "unavailable" last time round will come up again and again

Rob the reality is if Scotland votes to stay in the EU and rUk out the pound is not an option that would be a straight No from rUK.

Scotland would have to join Europe and adopt the Euro no ifs no buts no negotiations. A lot of the major issues would change not to Scotland's benefit.

Then we have the even more awkward thistle if Scotland votes to come out and rUK wants to stay in, then what do the SNP do.

We also have a conundrum on under what terms the UK leaves the EU it all comes down to negotiations the circumstance of an exit how can you claim a major change unless you know under what terms the UK is leaving and how all the treaties will be affected.

Opurtunism may get them a referendum but will it get Scotland a good deal.

rob murray
27-Jul-15, 16:25
Rob the reality is if Scotland votes to stay in the EU and rUk out the pound is not an option that would be a straight No from rUK. Scotland would have to join Europe and adopt the Euro no ifs no buts no negotiations. A lot of the major issues would change not to Scotland's benefit. Then we have the even more awkward thistle if Scotland votes to come out and rUK wants to stay in, then what do the SNP do.

Thats my point say we have an independance vote in 2016 ( ahead of any UK EU vote ) and its a yes, it will take 18 months - 2 years minimum to get EU membership for ourselves with no opt outs, and the waiting period ie we are independant... what currency do we use until we get into the EU where we will be using euro's whats the transational currency going to be ? If we wait for a UK EU vote in 2017 and its a yes...we still as a seperate country need a currency and the pound is the BOE so they still calll the shots surely ?

BetterTogether
27-Jul-15, 16:43
It puts the SNP between a rock and a hard place. Also you have the Scottish Secretary quoting the SNP " once in a generation " " once in a lifetime " back at them so it's not so likely they'll get the option of another referendum so easily. Remember the Westminster agreement was for the last referendum, part of it was the both side should respect the outcome. The call for another referendum so soon would prove the SNP do not honour their agreements, they may find it not so agreeable next time round.

BetterTogether
27-Jul-15, 16:47
You may also we'll find if Scotland went down the EU route when rUK came out then rUK would be forced to introduce border controls and other restrictions as immigration policies would be so far apart.

rob murray
27-Jul-15, 16:49
AH but we live in Orwellian times where no means yes...if the SNP get another white wash next year at Holyrood elections ( 100% they will ) and Sturgeon sticks an independance vote in the manifesto then thats their democractic mandate, and they can claim that Scotland has unanimously rejected all other parties then we are a defacto one nation party so if another referendum takes place there can only be 3 outcomes

1 Stay in UK
2 Go, wait, take the pain and bend down to EU membership criteria
3 Be independant and out of EU.

Only 2 makes any sense, 1 is not on, 3 to big a gamble ( we would be a micro state outside all our trading partners unless Sturgeons secret talks with frackers is leading to some interesting results....potentially plugging the oil fiscal gap ) The issue is who wil lead a yes campaign ? No other party has the muscle / clout...so its an open goal for the SNP....unless of course the "timing" is deemed to be wrong ) fiscally )

rob murray
27-Jul-15, 16:51
It puts the SNP between a rock and a hard place. Also you have the Scottish Secretary quoting the SNP " once in a generation " " once in a lifetime " back at them so it's not so likely they'll get the option of another referendum so easily. Remember the Westminster agreement was for the last referendum, part of it was the both side should respect the outcome. The call for another referendum so soon would prove the SNP do not honour their agreements, they may find it not so agreeable next time round.

But last time round we had a coalition....since when did respect come into the equation ?? I cant see what your driving at when you say.............. they may find it not so agreeable next time round...care to elaborate

BetterTogether
27-Jul-15, 17:22
Yet again we have the Unionists roll out the "once in a lifetime " they a it so quick to roll out '" we will never go to war " or " Parliament has spoken and NO British personal will take part in any action in Syria " .Now we find out the King Cameron give the UK people two fingers and that included the Unionists. Unionist sound more like that German 1936 party very day .I'm pretty sure it was Alex Salmomd and Nicola Sturgeon who said " once in a lifetime " and " once in a generation " why are you trying to obfuscate with other decisions the UK Parliament has taken ad hominem attacks do your argument no favours. If the SNP intended to breach their promises so quickly why make them in the first place. They've won some seats at a General Election and failed at a Referendum, the support they had at the GE is was down on that they gained at the Referendum how does that equate to the support of the Scottish people.

BetterTogether
27-Jul-15, 17:25
But last time round we had a coalition....since when did respect come into the equation ?? I cant see what your driving at when you say.............. they may find it not so agreeable next time round...care to elaborateThe UK government now has experience of how the SNP act leading up to a referendum. What if they decide to rule out using sterling, the queen all the other goodies the SNP relied upon last time to shore up their support and said next time independence means exactly that you take nothing more than what you're due and accept your full proportion of national debt. It would be far less appealing to an awful lot of Yes voters then. As it is we haven't a clue so that is just pure supposition.

cptdodger
27-Jul-15, 18:49
Unionist sound more like that German 1936 party very day .

And what party would that be ?

piratelassie
27-Jul-15, 21:06
There the unionists go again,moaning, grumbling and using their big gun,scare mongering,change the record for goodness sake.

cptdodger
27-Jul-15, 21:11
There the unionists go again,moaning, grumbling and using their big gun,scare mongering,change the record for goodness sake.Pot, kettle .......

davth
27-Jul-15, 22:08
AH but we live in Orwellian times where no means yes...if the SNP get another white wash next year at Holyrood elections ( 100% they will ) and Sturgeon sticks an independance vote in the manifesto then thats their democractic mandate, and they can claim that Scotland has unanimously rejected all other parties then we are a defacto one nation party so if another referendum takes place there can only be 3 outcomes100% really?I cannot see Orkney and Shetland changing to SNPAlso if a referendum is on the cards then that may just be enough for 55% of us to snub the nats.

sids
27-Jul-15, 22:21
And what party would that be ?

The one Jesse Owens threw, after the Olympic Games.

piratelassie
28-Jul-15, 01:30
At last the SNP bashers have been rumbled.

Scout
28-Jul-15, 08:41
At last the SNP bashers have been rumbled. Not really You have Alex saying one thing and Nicola saying the other. They can not agree in their own group. The facts are you lost the argument 55% said no get over it.

BetterTogether
28-Jul-15, 09:05
Well there's not going to be another Referendum the Prime Minister has ruled it out .


http://www.express.co.uk/news/politics/594246/David-Cameron-SNP-Scottish-independence-referendum-Scotland-Nicola-Sturgeon-Alex-Salmond


Seems Nicola and Alex are finally hoisted by their own petard.

" once in a lifetime "

"Once in a generation "

They also agreed to be bound and respect the outcome of the referendum when the Edinburgh agreement was signed.

rob murray
28-Jul-15, 09:05
At last the SNP bashers have been rumbled.

Rumbled on what basis ?? OK what do you suggest as regards currency to be used in transational period prior to becomming an EU state ( and using the euro ), debt % repayments to UK, costs of untangling UK services and setting up Scottish services, potential loss of financil jobs, fiscal hole caused by oil price slump....time limits and costs, its not SNP bashing as you put it, people require answers to the big issues, you know the issues ducked by Salmon last time round, when he was found out, same issues that if arent answered properly will result in another no majority. People didnt vote no because of an SNP hatred peple voted no as they saw themselves as British citizens ( like yourself cos thats what you are ) bwing asked to vote for independance when none of the really big issues were properly explained.

rob murray
28-Jul-15, 09:16
There the unionists go again,moaning, grumbling and using their big gun,scare mongering,change the record for goodness sake.

Glad you see the issues are "big guns", what is scraremongering about raising the practicality issues on independance ? if there is a referendum 2 youd better get used to it as the same arguements last time round will pop up again as the SNP failed demonstrably to convince the elecrorate that they had the answers and strategy required ( currency, debt repayment, fiscal responsibility, EU member ship....they will come up again and pro independance people using cliches and shouting people down wont cause you any good ) . Oh...where do get you off on using the term unionist....my definition of unionist is someone predomiantly from greater strathclyde ( you know the most densly inhabited part of Scotland ) who is of a certain religion, who supports a certain football team that sing the songs of our neighbours ( rule brittania etc ), who is aganist a certain religion, I could go on...I am British and like it or lump it so are you. SO refer to what you call unionists proprerly ie as as British citizens and accept that some people prefer the devil they know than the devil they dont.

rob murray
28-Jul-15, 09:18
And what party would that be ?

We all know what the gutless wonder is inferring, let him and others keep it up, with crass remarks like that they have no chance in changing opionins to their side.

BetterTogether
28-Jul-15, 09:18
SNP supporters like to kid themselves they have some moral majority !

The reality is so far Scotland has had two referendums on independence neither have come back as favourable toward a change.

There are followers who think that winning a General Election with good results transcribes into another referendum but until the SNP are getting voting numbers well in excess of 50% they do not have a majority to call for referendums.

At the moment they are the majority party for running Scotland and have had a resounding defeat for referendums.

cptdodger
28-Jul-15, 09:29
We all know what the gutless wonder is inferring, let him and others keep it up, with crass remarks like that they have no chance in changing opionins to their side.

I actually just wanted that person to put into writing exactly what they were accusing us of being, we have been called a lot of things on here, but that is the one thing I draw the line at.

BetterTogether
28-Jul-15, 09:32
Go on Twitter you'll get called all sorts their favourite at the moment is " Brit nat".


The good news is they've been reigned in by party central so are virtually only talking to each other now.

Failing to engage with the majority won't win them anything

rob murray
28-Jul-15, 09:33
I actually just wanted that person to put into writing exactly what they were accusing us of being, we have been called a lot of things on here, but that is the one thing I draw the line at.

I know but there you have it, this particular individual obviously cannot answer the big questions nor give any opinions on them, so reverts to what is the most tasteless ignorant inference going, by doing so he / she insults the memory of millions of people who fought for his / her freedom to post like this.

rob murray
28-Jul-15, 09:35
Go on Twitter you'll get called all sorts their favourite at the moment is " Brit nat".The good news is they've been reigned in by party central so are virtually only talking to each other now.

Brit nat will do me, I a British natural citizen, the laugh is these kind of people are British whether they like or not..........or are they typixing their passwords / maybe wrapping thier UK passports in tartan covers ..

BetterTogether
28-Jul-15, 09:44
One thing you'll find across the board with the vast majority is their failure to engage with current policies, they are hung up on past grievance spanning 300 yrs but singularly fail to engage on what is actually happening right here right now in the country.

When challenged they hop from issue to issue without actually commenting on anything.

You usually find it stops around the clearances but some do manage to dredge further back.

cptdodger
28-Jul-15, 09:47
Here's a question for you, had Scotland got Independence, no matter where I lived, would I not be British anymore because I was born in Scotland?

BetterTogether
28-Jul-15, 09:50
Here's a question for you, had Scotland got Independence, no matter where I lived, would I not be British anymore because I was born in Scotland?You'd of retained your passport and nationality, you can't strip someone of their nationality I think it's a UN thing but stand to be corrected on that issue

rob murray
28-Jul-15, 09:52
One thing you'll find across the board with the vast majority is their failure to engage with current policies, they are hung up on past grievance spanning 300 yrs but singularly fail to engage on what is actually happening right here right now in the country.

When challenged they hop from issue to issue without actually commenting on anything.

You usually find it stops around the clearances but some do manage to dredge further back.

Did you see the thread from a poster asking for a seperate politics thread on the gounds of so called SNP bashing..its boring same stuff time and time again ....and the same people making the same arguements....what a farce eh....not many people actually post on the site nowadays anyway, of course the same arguements will get trotted out as the big issues have not gone away. the SNP failed to convince the electorate last time and the big issues will still be with us....oh....shove in oil prices as well....as last time round the assumption was a $110 barrel price to fund the land of milk and honey.

BetterTogether
28-Jul-15, 09:55
Well I did see quite amazing considering that the political threads are generally the most widely viewed ones on the org.

cptdodger
28-Jul-15, 09:57
You'd of retained your passport and nationality, you can't strip someone of their nationality I think it's a UN thing but stand to be corrected on that issue

For some reason, that just struck me, it's more my daughter I am concerned about, she has lived in England since the age of 4, she's 32 now, and has a British Passport, imagine having that taken off you and you were not even allowed to vote !!

cptdodger
28-Jul-15, 09:59
Did you see the thread from a poster asking for a seperate politics thread on the gounds of so called SNP bashing..its boring same stuff time and time again ....and the same people making the same arguements....what a farce eh....not many people actually post on the site nowadays anyway, of course the same arguements will get trotted out as the big issues have not gone away. the SNP failed to convince the electorate last time and the big issues will still be with us....oh....shove in oil prices as well....as last time round the assumption was a $110 barrel price to fund the land of milk and honey.

We got punted !! Watch the General thread die a death !

rob murray
28-Jul-15, 10:05
Well I did see quite amazing considering that the political threads are generally the most widely viewed ones on the org.

Viewed but low active participation.....seems daft SNP bashing................if only !!

BetterTogether
28-Jul-15, 10:08
I've no problems with the org having a separate Politics Forum although do wonder why those who aren't interested just don't not view the posts it's quite easy to do. Considering the amount of view the politics threads do get I would of moved it to a higher place up the list not buried it further down. But hey ho what can you do !

BetterTogether
28-Jul-15, 10:12
Viewed but low active participation.....seems daft SNP bashing................if only !!

Oh Rob you fail to realise it fuels their sense of moral outrage.

If nothing else they must be the most permanently outraged members of any political party in History.

Majority, democracy means very little to most of them in my mind they are a reincarnation of the Cromwellian New Model Army.

No dissent is allowed, no other view other than the party view, all internal issues are ignored all opposing views crushed ruthlessly.

rob murray
28-Jul-15, 11:45
Nah....they must have read "what is to be done" and are rigourously practising its contents !

rob murray
28-Jul-15, 12:11
Oh Rob you fail to realise it fuels their sense of moral outrage.

If nothing else they must be the most permanently outraged members of any political party in History.

Majority, democracy means very little to most of them in my mind they are a reincarnation of the Cromwellian New Model Army.

No dissent is allowed, no other view other than the party view, all internal issues are ignored all opposing views crushed ruthlessly.

HI youve PM'd me but I cant seem to empty my in box...sorry

Murdo
28-Jul-15, 18:48
How strange -- just watching the national news as we speak- report says that the main source of growth in the UK enconomy last month has been down to increased revenue from North Sea oil and gas. Still a huge millstone for Scotland according to all you doomsayers . How does that work then ?.

BetterTogether
28-Jul-15, 19:14
How strange -- just watching the national news as we speak- report says that the main source of growth in the UK enconomy last month has been down to increased revenue from North Sea oil and gas. Still a huge millstone for Scotland according to all you doomsayers . How does that work then ?.Pumping even more for half the price if that's a storming economic success fair play

dc1
28-Jul-15, 21:21
keep up the work boys its the only thing worth coming on the org for

rob murray
29-Jul-15, 14:43
Thanks pal.....the truth will always out eh ! Only one way for the SNP and thats down hil,l as it all come home to roost.

rob murray
29-Jul-15, 14:48
How strange -- just watching the national news as we speak- report says that the main source of growth in the UK enconomy last month has been down to increased revenue from North Sea oil and gas. Still a huge millstone for Scotland according to all you doomsayers . How does that work then ?.

Read http://www.ons.gov.uk/ons/dcp171778_412372.pdf goverment GDP stats....Im no doom sayer as you put it but heres the facts mull over at your leisure.

Mr Z
29-Jul-15, 19:48
And theres me thinking you have been telling us all along that it is UK oil.

Oddquine
31-Jul-15, 00:30
There the unionists go again,moaning, grumbling and using their big gun,scare mongering,change the record for goodness sake.

Now, now, piratelassie, don't interrupt the BetterTogether with rob murray and friends show now it has its own stage.

BetterTogether
31-Jul-15, 10:10
Now, now, piratelassie, don't interrupt the BetterTogether with rob murray and friends show now it has its own stage.Feel free to interrupt if you can find examples which disproves any of the articles. Playing the victim doesn't really work nor do the one line hit and run posts for effect but not based on reality. Meanwhile maybe Oddquine you can answer why In Dumfries and Galloway the SNP have climbed in bed with the Conservatives to form a coalition rather than allow Labour to do their thing.

rob murray
31-Jul-15, 12:34
And theres me thinking you have been telling us all along that it is UK oil.

One word mate Centrica......closely followed by SHell.....low barrel price is not finished yet...reap the wild wind !!! so much for the SNP fiscall predictions pre referendum...if we had voted yes we would have been bending down to get back in the UK..

rob murray
31-Jul-15, 12:42
Now, now, piratelassie, don't interrupt the BetterTogether with rob murray and friends show now it has its own stage.

Pal I never asked for a separate politics thread.....if me and better tgother / "friends" post so be it shows the general apathy out there...as for pirate lassie, odd quine and others...scorrie politics...fly into a thread...squack a lot, dump on people and fly off with absolutely no real contribution they havent the wit to counter anti government allegations made here : for your information there is a hell of a lot to moan about with these SNP chancers about...tartan chancers as bad if not worse than the rest....you keep on believing the lies...I dont as facts are truer than SNP propoganda. Insult all you want we aint going away

Fulmar
31-Jul-15, 13:22
Just to say there are many reading of whom I am one, although I do not post much. I do not consider myself to be apathetic because I am not writing in, far from it. I am doing my best to read and consider what is being discussed and to take it on board and learn from other folks' points of view- often people who are much better informed than myself.
The Wick gala debacle has been a case in point and had to think very long and hard about that one to come up with what I thought was the right set of thoghts for me, which actually contained elements of many other people's points of view so no point going over the same ground again.
So do not confuse non-posting with apathy please! I will certainly contribute when I feel that I have something worth while to say!

rob murray
31-Jul-15, 13:29
Just to say there are many reading of whom I am one, although I do not post much. I do not consider myself to be apathetic because I am not writing in, far from it. I am doing my best to read and consider what is being discussed and to take it on board and learn from other folks' points of view- often people who are much better informed than myself.
The Wick gala debacle has been a case in point and had to think very long and hard about that one to come up with what I thought was the right set of thoghts for me, which actually contained elements of many other people's points of view so no point going over the same ground again.
So do not confuse non-posting with apathy please! I will certainly contribute when I feel that I have something worth while to say!

Fair enough good point its just that with a couple posting we are wide open to attacks ie same ol people trotting out the same ol arguements...is indt 2 will be fought over old gorund as nothing has really changes depite the rantings oif " scorries"....sometimes I feel that more can contribute even if its just a short...I agree posting.... or if you dont agree slam right into me / us all debate is healthy in a one party state !!!! Otherwise the lies just get accpeted as trusim's belted about the the propoganda machine

BetterTogether
31-Jul-15, 14:34
I fully accept that many more read the political threads than are necessarily comfortable adding to them, that's just life why would we expect any different. It's democratic non one forces us to post and neither do we stop anyone from posting. Robust argument and counter argument are to be expected within any political discussion that's why so many avoid it by will listen in attentively.

BetterTogether
31-Jul-15, 14:36
Meanwhile it will be interesting to see how the SNP reacte if Mr Corbyn does get elected as New Leader of the Labour Party the Red Tories label will have to get thrown out of the window in fairly short order and how will they counter a party that is much further to the left than they could ever wish to be.

rob murray
31-Jul-15, 15:19
Meanwhile it will be interesting to see how the SNP reacte if Mr Corbyn does get elected as New Leader of the Labour Party the Red Tories label will have to get thrown out of the window in fairly short order and how will they counter a party that is much further to the left than they could ever wish to be.

The SNP...a party to the left....aye lol lol lol : triangulation party more like...knicking everyones cltothes...a one tick pony....indepemdmace

Fulmar
31-Jul-15, 19:05
I think it will be even more interesting to see how the Labour party will react if Jeremy Corbyn is elected as leader because at the moment there is a fair amount of 'weeping, wailing and gnashing of teeth' going on! I find it totally amusing that at first, many were falling over themselves to say that no way would they serve in a Corbyn shadow cabinet but now when,'shock, horror' it looks as though he might actually win, they are all saying the opposite and that of course they will get behind the new leader. Labour has been busy shooting itself in the foot again so far as I can see- would be funny except it is so important for them to get their act together really.

rob murray
31-Jul-15, 20:32
I think it will be even more interesting to see how the Labour party will react if Jeremy Corbyn is elected as leader because at the moment there is a fair amount of 'weeping, wailing and gnashing of teeth' going on! I find it totally amusing that at first, many were falling over themselves to say that no way would they serve in a Corbyn shadow cabinet but now when,'shock, horror' it looks as though he might actually win, they are all saying the opposite and that of course they will get behind the new leader. Labour has been busy shooting itself in the foot again so far as I can see- would be funny except it is so important for them to get their act together really.

AGreed..but a left party will never get power....the english southern vote will see to that...if Corbyn gets in then we are turning the clock back to Michael Foot era...so will take a new " new labour" to get back in power = another 18 years...empowers NSP claims for indy 2......( NSP = National Scottish Party, cos thats what they are !! )