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rob murray
17-Jul-15, 09:19
Does Cameron really want the union ? see http://www.scotsman.com/news/uk/backlash-against-snp-as-tories-make-fresh-evel-bid-1-3830872

Seems not to me.....The geezer is playing with fire, handing over a massive political opportunity to Sturgeon who now has an open goal in front of her. The SNP’s Angus MacNeil said the proposed changes may offer his party a “huge lever to break the Union apart”. . If Cameron et all get their way and there are unacceptable restrictions in Scottish involvement at westminster, then thats framing the next referendum, providing we get another SNP whitewash at next years elections ( possibly 100% on the cards ) or are they double bluffing sturgeon, given the economy / oil prices and finances which dont stack up in terms of tackling and financing anti austerity / preservation of services as promised by the SNP, and are they speculating that Sturgeon will back down as regards a referendum as she has a weak hand financially or will she go for it, if she doesnt, then her own party would turn on her? Is this nothing but cynical bluffing ? oh its interesting that Sturgeon is now in talks with fracking people....but she should come clean on the issue, fracking could lead to a new industry and the expertise and capital is there unlike that needed to progress renewanales...wave and wind ? WOnder if Caithnes is suitable for fracking ?

Could more politically aware people than me put me right on EVEL and how is effects Scotland please as I fear Cameron is playing with fire, what was the point of voting no as I did to be treated so disresepctfully ? Please make real points no abuse or snidey comments.

BetterTogether
17-Jul-15, 10:31
Even has no effect on Scottish Politics it is all about English MPs being able to vote on issues which have no devolved powers attached to them anything which falls into the realm of a developed power goes through parliament as normal. There is much made by SNP MSPs about being made second class MPs by the introduction of Evel because it would limit their ability to vote on purely English matters. The hypocrisy of this is quite astounding, on one hand you have Holyrood and its devolved powers which no English MP can vote on, flip the card you have English matters which Scottish MSPs can and do vote on. From the situation as it stands the only second class MPs are the English ones.

sids
17-Jul-15, 11:01
Does Cameron really want the union ? see http://www.scotsman.com/news/uk/backlashgg-against-snp-as-tories-make-fresh-evel-bid-1-3830872
.


Hard to tell what Cameron wants, from your linked article, as he is not even mentioned in it.

Like me, you can probably remember a time when the Scotsman was worth reading.

rob murray
17-Jul-15, 11:24
Hard to tell what Cameron wants, from your linked article, as he is not even mentioned in it.

Like me, you can probably remember a time when the Scotsman was worth reading.

Yep I cant figure out the real agenda from Cameron hence my posting, technically he may not be mentioned in the article but his party is and he is the leader after all so I dont get your point ..... "In a backlash against the Nationalists’ decision to break their own rule on abstaining from English-only matters, Tory MPs lined up to call for the government to press ahead with plans to introduce Evel". The issue is in a few on line sources and isn ot a single paper story. I never read the scotsman either but the story was highlighted thats what caught my eye, and as I said I am not up to speed with this EVEL malarkey, seemed to me to be another stick that the NSP can beat westminster with "a lever to break the union"

rob murray
17-Jul-15, 11:26
Even has no effect on Scottish Politics it is all about English MPs being able to vote on issues which have no devolved powers attached to them anything which falls into the realm of a developed power goes through parliament as normal. There is much made by SNP MSPs about being made second class MPs by the introduction of Evel because it would limit their ability to vote on purely English matters. The hypocrisy of this is quite astounding, on one hand you have Holyrood and its devolved powers which no English MP can vote on, flip the card you have English matters which Scottish MSPs can and do vote on. From the situation as it stands the only second class MPs
are the English ones.

Would the NSP not claim that they have limited devolved powers though and westminster is not giving them what they want, re devolved powers, whilst now tying their hands behind their backs in westminster ? I can see that would be their spin on it.

cptdodger
17-Jul-15, 11:33
This is probably a simplistic view of things, however, from my point of view the reason the SNP were formed was to gain Independence for Scotland, and on the 18th of September last year, the Country voted no. Since then they have constantly droned on about powers being devolved from Westminster to Holyrood. - There is a PDF on here which outline the powers - http://researchbriefings.parliament.uk/ResearchBriefing/Summary/SN06987

As far as I am concerned, they did'nt win, and are lucky they are getting the above. As for English votes for English laws, quite right, as Better Together says, if English MP's, suddenly decided to vote on Scottish Laws, there would be such an outcry from Holyrood.

For one minute there I actually agreed with the SNP when they decided to vote against the relaxation of the fox hunting laws, I thought they were doing it out of the goodness of their hearts to curb a barbaric "sport". But no, it was just a calculated political move. It would not have mattered one jot what the subject was. And that, is what you are dealing with.

rob murray
17-Jul-15, 11:52
This is probably a simplistic view of things, however, from my point of view the reason the SNP were formed was to gain Independence for Scotland, and on the 18th of September last year, the Country voted no. Since then they have constantly droned on about powers being devolved from Westminster to Holyrood. - There is a PDF on here which outline the powers - http://researchbriefings.parliament.uk/ResearchBriefing/Summary/SN06987

As far as I am concerned, they did'nt win, and are lucky they are getting the above. As for English votes for English laws, quite right, as Better Together says, if English MP's, suddenly decided to vote on Scottish Laws, there would be such an outcry from Holyrood.

For one minute there I actually agreed with the SNP when they decided to vote against the relaxation of the fox hunting laws, I thought they were doing it out of the goodness of their hearts to curb a barbaric "sport". But no, it was just a calculated political move. It would not have mattered one jot what the subject was. And that, is what you are dealing with.

Thanks for the info, will need to take time and get my head around it. Fox hunting......agree with your point as NSP strategy at westminster is to cause friction and annoyance so much, that at some stage they will get their referendum and the english will be glad to see the back of scotland. Is that the case ?

Fulmar
17-Jul-15, 11:59
For one minute there I actually agreed with the SNP when they decided to vote against the relaxation of the fox hunting laws, I thought they were doing it out of the goodness of their hearts to curb a barbaric "sport". But no, it was just a calculated political move. It would not have mattered one jot what the subject was. And that, is what you are dealing with.
I am not sure that this is the entire picture. I heard that Scottish MPs had received a lot of representation from their constituents to vote against the repeal of the hunting with dogs act and I am sure that did influence the decision to vote on the issue. Also, it was only because many Tory MPs are also opposed that the Scottish MPs votes were significant. On less contentious issues, the Tories do have a clear majority.
Who can tell what they are all up to in Westminster? I can see both sides of the argument really. What I do not want to see is a somehow different institution called the 'English Parliament' being set up which is what some in the SNP seem to be calling for? That, in my view, would be crazy and a gross waste of money and where would that leave Westminster as we know it? Far as I'm concerned, it should remain as it is and I would hope that on things that are purely English and not such moral, contentious issues like fox hunting (which, I believe, the majority of people everywhere in the UK do not want to see coming back), the Nationalist MPs would do the decent thing and abstain. Eternal optimism, I guess!

rob murray
17-Jul-15, 12:06
For one minute there I actually agreed with the SNP when they decided to vote against the relaxation of the fox hunting laws, I thought they were doing it out of the goodness of their hearts to curb a barbaric "sport". But no, it was just a calculated political move. It would not have mattered one jot what the subject was. And that, is what you are dealing with.
I am not sure that this is the entire picture. I heard that Scottish MPs had received a lot of representation from their constituents to vote against the repeal of the hunting with dogs act and I am sure that did influence the decision to vote on the issue. Also, it was only because many Tory MPs are also opposed that the Scottish MPs votes were significant. On less contentious issues, the Tories do have a clear majority.
Who can tell what they are all up to in Westminster? I can see both sides of the argument really. What I do not want to see is a somehow different institution called the 'English Parliament' being set up which is what some in the SNP seem to be calling for? That, in my view, would be crazy and a gross waste of money and where would that leave Westminster as we know it? Far as I'm concerned, it should remain as it is and I would hope that on things that are purely English and not such moral, contentious issues like fox hunting (which, I believe, the majority of people everywhere in the UK do not want to see coming back), the Nationalist MPs would do the decent thing and abstain. Eternal optimism, I guess!

Well put ! Where would NSP MPS's contribute in an " english parliament" ....is it not the case then given this that there is no logical requirement for a UK parliament so turn the clock back to 1706 and we have our own parliament...next steps independance ? As I said earlier is there not a dangerous game at play here ?

cptdodger
17-Jul-15, 12:12
I can only answer that from a personal point of view, not political, but I lived in England for years, and I can honestly say I never came across the level of negativity shown towards Scotland that is shown towards England here, ever. From a political point of view, I had Prime Minister's Questions on in the background a couple of weeks ago, during it there was a load of questions on different subjects that is until the SNP lot got started, every single one that spoke, and I think there was four or five, asked the same question worded differently. I think Cameron got fed up with this and said something along the lines of the SNP were not utilating the powers they already had, so what was the rush, something like that anyway. Then there was the fox hunting vote.

I do'nt think it's so much that Cameron wants another referendum and the UK split, I think it's more of a case they are going to get so fed up of the SNP, he will be forced into allowing another referendum.

rob murray
17-Jul-15, 12:19
I can only answer that from a personal point of view, not political, but I lived in England for years, and I can honestly say I never came across the level of negativity shown towards Scotland that is shown towards England here, ever. From a political point of view, I had Prime Minister's Questions on in the background a couple of weeks ago, during it there was a load of questions on different subjects that is until the SNP lot got started, every single one that spoke, and I think there was four or five, asked the same question worded differently. I think Cameron got fed up with this and said something along the lines of the SNP were not utilating the powers they already had, so what was the rush, something like that anyway. Then there was the fox hunting vote.

I do'nt think it's so much that Cameron wants another referendum and the UK split, I think it's more of a case they are going to get so fed up of the SNP, he will be forced into allowing another referendum.

I would tend to agree with what you say about getting so fed up with them that they cave in and give another referendum....interesting that you mention negativty to the english up here....and little negativity by english towads scotland, based on your personal experiences ...care to give some examples...just curious ??

sids
17-Jul-15, 12:19
Yep I cant figure out the real agenda from Cameron hence my posting, technically he may not be mentioned in the article but his party is and he is the leader after all so I dont get your point ..... "In a backlash against the Nationalists’ decision to break their own rule on abstaining from English-only matters, Tory MPs lined up to call for the government to press ahead with plans to introduce Evel".

If I have a point, it's that this is an example of Tory backbenchers playing to the gallery of their constituents. Goes on all the time.

cptdodger
17-Jul-15, 12:24
Well put ! Where would NSP MPS's contribute in an " english parliament" ....is it not the case then given this that there is no logical requirement for a UK parliament so turn the clock back to 1706 and we have our own parliament...next steps independance ? As I said earlier is there not a dangerous game at play here ?

That's the thing then is'nt it? The minute we were given a Scottish Parliament whenever it was, that was the slippery slope. Scotland has a Parliament, Wales has its National Assembly, Northern Ireland has Stormont, England has - ? Westminster, but Westminster incorporates Scotland, Wales, and Northern Ireland. So, this is how I look at it, if the three of us, Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland have their own Parliaments why can't England?

To do that, there is no point in any of us being part of the UK, again a simplistic view on a complex problem !

rob murray
17-Jul-15, 12:30
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/SNP/11745037/SNP-unveils-plans-for-MPs-to-focus-on-England.html

Interesting read : can be seen in 2 ways, 1 A genuine concern for English people and England 2 Interference for political gain..kinda backs up what Cpt dodger is saying ie p*ss tories off so much they cave inSNP unveils plans for MPs to focus on England Angus Robertson, the SNP's Westminster leader, says the party's strength at Westminster means it will now get involved in issues outside of Scotland

Interesting read : can be seen in 2 ways, 1 A genuine concern for English people and England 2 Interference for political gain..kinda backs up what Cpt dodger is saying ie p*ss tories off so much they cave in

The Scottish Nationalists are to start regularly interfering in English affairs as part of a plan to use their new strength in the Commons to extend their power south of the Border. Angus Robertson (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/general-election-2015/politics-blog/11712721/All-the-SNP-really-wants-is-to-hold-Westminster-to-ransom.html), the SNP’s leader at Westminster, said the ranks of new SNP MPs meant the party was no longer restricted to focusing on their traditional Scottish interests and they would now tackle issues affecting other parts of the UK.

In a letter to his group, he said the SNP “has much to say” that is relevant to the rest of the UK and its “progressive policy agenda” applies across the country".

Interesting qoute from John Lamont “The SNP might not feel they have enough to keep them busy in Westminster, but there are plenty of issues under the control of the Scottish Government which are causing serious worry to people in Scotland. It’s for the voters to judge whether SNP politicians should stand up for Scotland or stand up for Shorpe.”

Bit like watching table tennis eh !!

rob murray
17-Jul-15, 12:32
That's the thing then is'nt it? The minute we were given a Scottish Parliament whenever it was, that was the slippery slope. Scotland has a Parliament, Wales has its National Assembly, Northern Ireland has Stormont, England has - ? Westminster, but Westminster incorporates Scotland, Wales, and Northern Ireland. So, this is how I look at it, if the three of us, Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland have their own Parliaments why can't England?

To do that, there is no point in any of us being part of the UK, again a simplistic view on a complex problem !

Sometimes its best to cut the quick though, its not simplistic, your highlighting the key issue

sids
17-Jul-15, 12:41
Angus Robertson, the SNP's Westminster leader, says the party's strength at Westminster means it will now get involved in issues outside of Scotland [/SIZE][/B]

Interesting read : can be seen in 2 ways,


Or a third way: It's taken them two and a half months to realise they are Opposition MPs in the UK Government and that is their job.

cptdodger
17-Jul-15, 12:44
I would tend to agree with what you say about getting so fed up with them that they cave in and give another referendum....interesting that you mention negativty to the english up here....and little negativity by english towads scotland, based on your personal experiences ...care to give some examples...just curious ??

By here, I mean Scotland, just in case anybody thinks I am singling Caithness out. I will give you one example, although there are many. I was working in Dundee when the 2006 World Cup was on, they used to show the matches, especially the English ones where I worked. I was sitting opposite somebody, when a mouthful of abuse came out about England, fair enough there is always rivalry in sport, but I asked her was that about the team or English people in general, well it was the latter and everybody around her agreed. So I calmly told her my partner is English as are two of my children who were born in England, and as far as I was concerned (I remember what she said but wont repeat it on here) that stream of abuse was aimed at my family, you could see smoke omitting from her shoes she backtracked that quickly.

As I say, that is just one example, I have read things on this forum that I find very derogative towards the English in general. You are quite right to call me sensitive, but in my view that's my children they are attacking, just because they happened to be born in England.

And again, I can honestly say I never heard anybody say anything like that in England, I was made to feel so welcome, and I lived there (in different areas) for fourteen years.

sids
17-Jul-15, 12:51
I wouldn't excuse rudeness, but I can't say I'm shocked or surprised that someone said something nasty about England, in a Dundee boozer, while watching an England game.

cptdodger
17-Jul-15, 12:53
I wouldn't excuse rudeness, but I can't say I'm shocked or surprised that someone said something nasty about England, in a Dundee boozer, while watching an England game.

This was at work, no alcohol involved !

sids
17-Jul-15, 13:24
This was at work, no alcohol involved !

You had football TV at work?

And you left!

rob murray
17-Jul-15, 13:29
Or a third way: It's taken them two and a half months to realise they are Opposition MPs in the UK Government and that is their job.

Yes and no....depends on how you see their strategy. Just back from up the town, saw the herald in the COOP front page headline...."Independence is not a threat to you, SNP to tell rest of UK in major charm offensive" ...their westminster strategy is to go for indepandance....is that what you call "opposition" ?

From The Herald

THE SNP is to lay the ground for a second referendum by reaching out to business and civic society across the rest of the UK in the hope of detoxifying independence. Angus Robertson, the party’s Westminster leader, has ordered his MPs to conduct “outreach planning for the rest of the UK” over the summer in order to build trust and forge alliances with organisations in England, Wales, Northern Ireland and the Irish republic.
The strategy is to establish the SNP’s bona fides outwith Scotland and convince stakeholders that independence would not threaten the other home nations.
A party source admitted there had been a failure to persuade civic society outside Scotland last year, resulting in unhelpful hostility towards independence across the political spectrum.
The outreach plan is designed “to foster a more benign view of the SNP so that, as when there is another referendum, there could be a different response,” the source said.

SO there you have it the 56 are not there to represent consitiuent issues, not to act as opposition MP's in a traditinal sense, but first and foremost abobe all, to foster "a more benign view of the SNP so that, as when there is another referendum, there could be a different response"

I feel we are now in an Orwellian landscape where no means yes !!

cptdodger
17-Jul-15, 13:33
You had football TV at work?

And you left!

In my defence though, it was BT ! They showed all the major sporing events, Football, The Grand National, Golf and so on. It cut down on the absences !

cptdodger
17-Jul-15, 13:35
Yes and no....depends on how you see their strategy. Just back from up the town, saw the herald in the COOP front page headline...."Independence is not a threat to you, SNP to tell rest of UK in major charm offensive" ...their westminster strategy is to go for indepandance....is that what you call "opposition" ?

From The Herald

THE SNP is to lay the ground for a second referendum by reaching out to business and civic society across the rest of the UK in the hope of detoxifying independence. Angus Robertson, the party’s Westminster leader, has ordered his MPs to conduct “outreach planning for the rest of the UK” over the summer in order to build trust and forge alliances with organisations in England, Wales, Northern Ireland and the Irish republic.
The strategy is to establish the SNP’s bona fides outwith Scotland and convince stakeholders that independence would not threaten the other home nations.
A party source admitted there had been a failure to persuade civic society outside Scotland last year, resulting in unhelpful hostility towards independence across the political spectrum.
The outreach plan is designed “to foster a more benign view of the SNP so that, as when there is another referendum, there could be a different response,” the source said.

SO there you have it the 56 are not there to represent consitiuent issues, not to act as opposition MP's in a traditinal sense, but first and foremost abobe all, to foster "a more benign view of the SNP so that, as when there is another referendum, there could be a different response"

I feel we are now in an Orwellian landscape where no means yes !!

Frightening, did the last Referendum not cause quite enough damage for them, were not enough divisions created for them?

sids
17-Jul-15, 13:37
In my defence though, it was BT

I remember people used to leave BT for jobs at Norfrost.

Fulmar
17-Jul-15, 13:37
It is all so stupid and infantile and immature, isn't it when many thousands of Scots (including Caithnesians) are happily living and working in England, thank you very much! My daughter is one of them, living and working in London which she totally loves for it's cultural diversity and opportunities on all fronts. She loves to come home too as well- can see and appreciate the good in all places and that is how it should be.
Nationalist abuse directed by anyone towards anyone is always wrong and to be condemned and for the life of me, I cannot understand why folk can't just feel pride in their origins wherever they happen to come from within the Uk (and elsewhere) because there is good everywhere and always good things to be proud of!
Life is just too short to live it any other way and we all have a choice and should use it wisely and maybe remember all those sayings (Biblical and other wise) which most of us were nurtured on such as 'doing unto others as you would have them do unto you' and all that! So I think in any case.

cptdodger
17-Jul-15, 13:48
It is all so stupid and infantile and immature, isn't it when many thousands of Scots (including Caithnesians) are happily living and working in England, thank you very much! My daughter is one of them, living and working in London which she totally loves for it's cultural diversity and opportunities on all fronts. She loves to come home too as well- can see and appreciate the good in all places and that is how it should be.
Nationalist abuse directed by anyone towards anyone is always wrong and to be condemned and for the life of me, I cannot understand why folk can't just feel pride in their origins wherever they happen to come from within the Uk (and elsewhere) because there is good everywhere and always good things to be proud of!
Life is just too short to live it any other way and we all have a choice and should use it wisely and maybe remember all those sayings (Biblical and other wise) which most of us were nurtured on such as 'doing unto others as you would have them do unto you' and all that! So I think in any case.

I agree, I have always treated people the way I wanted people to treat me. I admit, moving to London in 1987 was a bit of a cultural shock in the beginning, I never got used to the heat down there, it was so oppressive at times, and of course the food was different, you could'nt get Wallace's pies or bridies there ! I am sure your daughter is having a great time in London, and honestly, the opportunities are endless now she is there.

rob murray
17-Jul-15, 13:52
It is all so stupid and infantile and immature, isn't it when many thousands of Scots (including Caithnesians) are happily living and working in England, thank you very much! My daughter is one of them, living and working in London which she totally loves for it's cultural diversity and opportunities on all fronts. She loves to come home too as well- can see and appreciate the good in all places and that is how it should be.
Nationalist abuse directed by anyone towards anyone is always wrong and to be condemned and for the life of me, I cannot understand why folk can't just feel pride in their origins wherever they happen to come from within the Uk (and elsewhere) because there is good everywhere and always good things to be proud of!
Life is just too short to live it any other way and we all have a choice and should use it wisely and maybe remember all those sayings (Biblical and other wise) which most of us were nurtured on such as 'doing unto others as you would have them do unto you' and all that! So I think in any case.

Well said sir, my son to works in London, he is a music journalist and interacts with big companies, PR companies and conducts both face to face and telephone interviews with loads of "names" , he was born and lived in wick up to the age of 10 and thereafter spent 7 years in Tain and 4 years in Dundee, he still has a bit of the week twang....anyway his accent is regulary picked up on and he is nearly always asked where he comes from in an inquisitive sorta way....when he says Scottish and he's originally from Wick near John O Groats....well everyone has heard of JOhn O Groats...he has never had any hassle whatsoever in London, but was severly hacked off when he was deprived of the vote in the referendum as he is scottish and proud of it...as he jokes ..he's the founding member of the London Scorries ( Wick Academy FC fans ). Yes live and let live its a big world out there

cptdodger
17-Jul-15, 13:53
I remember people used to leave BT for jobs at Norfrost.

The reason I am in Caithness is because my partner worked for BT in Dundee, and they persuaded him to move here because they told him his job would be safe, he is an IT Engineer, and at the time there were three engineers in Dundee, and nobody here. So, we moved here in 2009, he was then made redundant less than a year later. So these poor people that left BT for Norfrost, probably, like us thought it was the right decision, and might be better for them.

rob murray
17-Jul-15, 13:56
Frightening, did the last Referendum not cause quite enough damage for them, were not enough divisions created for them?

The NSP werent damaged, the divisions caused by the propoganda circulated during the referedum and their after effects, have soured things ever since.

cptdodger
17-Jul-15, 13:58
Well said sir, my son to works in London, he is a music journalist and interacts with big companies, PR companies and conducts both face to face and telephone interviews with loads of "names" , he was born and lived in wick up to the age of 10 and thereafter spent 7 years in Tain and 4 years in Dundee, he still has a bit of the week twang....anyway his accent is regulary picked up on and he is nearly always asked where he comes from in an inquisitive sorta way....when he says Scottish and he's originally from Wick near John O Groats....well everyone has heard of JOhn O Groats...he has never had any hassle whatsoever in London, but was severly hacked off when he was deprived of the vote in the referendum as he is scottish and proud of it...as he jokes ..he's the founding member of the London Scorries ( Wick Academy FC fans ). Yes live and let live its a big world out there

My daughter was so annoyed she did'nt get the vote as well, she lives in Hastings but was born in Scotland. What really annoyed her was, University students (overseas ones) got the vote, they would be in this country for four years at the most, the outcome had no bearing on them whatsoever, but they had a say in our future.

cptdodger
17-Jul-15, 14:00
The NSP werent damaged, the divisions caused by the propoganda circulated during the referedum and their after effects, have soured things ever since.

Sorry, that's what I meant, the divisions created in families and so on, because of the referendum.

In my opinion, the SNP should have disbanded after that, but no, they came out of it glowing!

rob murray
17-Jul-15, 14:01
The reason I am in Caithness is because my partner worked for BT in Dundee, and they persuaded him to move here because they told him his job would be safe, he is an IT Engineer, and at the time there were three engineers in Dundee, and nobody here. So, we moved here in 2009, he was then made redundant less than a year later. So these poor people that left BT for Norfrost, probably, like us thought it was the right decision, and might be better for them.

They may have left BT but BT had varying kinds of contractual work in Thurso, ie from low level jobs ( low paid which is why anyone would leave BT to go to equally, low paid low skilled assembly line work at Norfrost...hell some people must have been desperate ! ) to higher level IT support jobs which your partner did, anyway there is no norfrost now and hasnt been for years.

cptdodger
17-Jul-15, 14:05
They may have left BT but BT had varying kinds of contractual work in Thurso, ie from low level jobs ( low paid which is why anyone would leave BT to go to equally, low paid low skilled assembly line work at Norfrost...hell some people must have been desperate ! ) to higher level IT support jobs which your partner did, anyway there is no norfrost now and hasnt been for years.

It did'nt do him any good, they left us stranded here !!

rob murray
17-Jul-15, 14:10
My daughter was so annoyed she did'nt get the vote as well, she lives in Hastings but was born in Scotland. What really annoyed her was, University students (overseas ones) got the vote, they would be in this country for four years at the most, the outcome had no bearing on them whatsoever, but they had a say in our future.

Aye NSP, fly bar stewards....lowering the voting age in an attempt to get more votes ( they didna, that blew up in their faces ) and depriving scots living in UK outside of scotland....didnt know that over seas students got the vote...I can see why though...more open to vote yes...buy into the freedom propoganda...the braveheart votes... now I never figured out why they stopped scots living out with scotland in the UK....any thoughts into this blatant gerry madering ??

rob murray
17-Jul-15, 14:11
It did'nt do him any good, they left us stranded here !!

I know what a bunch of lying b......'s ! Hope all is ok with you though.

cptdodger
17-Jul-15, 14:14
I know what a bunch of lying b......'s ! Hope all is ok with you though.

Not too bad now thank you, luckily he went back to what he used to do, and that was a receptionist at a hotel, then he got a contract at Vulcan, but to get okay took five years !

cptdodger
17-Jul-15, 14:16
Aye NSP, fly bar stewards....lowering the voting age in an attempt to get more votes ( they didna, that blew up in their faces ) and depriving scots living in UK outside of scotland....didnt know that over seas students got the vote...I can see why though...more open to vote yes...buy into the freedom propoganda...the braveheart votes... now I never figured out why they stopped scots living out with scotland in the UK....any thoughts into this blatant gerry madering ??

I doubt they wanted anybody's vote that (in their eyes) had lived under English influence for so long !!

rob murray
17-Jul-15, 14:17
Not too bad now thank you, luckily he went back to what he used to do, and that was a receptionist at a hotel, then he got a contract at Vulcan, but to get okay took five years !

Jee whiz.....glad it all worked out though !

rob murray
17-Jul-15, 14:22
I doubt they wanted anybodies vote that (in their eyes) had lived under English influence for so long !!

Could be....London is bigger than the entire country of Scotland.....anyone living down there soon realises that scotland is a "village" in media terms especially the music business / media...basically there is not a lot going in Scotland on and every one knows everyone...in London well its a lot lot bigger....scots in London soon get a sense of perspective and I can see a lot of scots down suoth voting no...exactly on that basis...so thats why I would think they never got to vote...anyway its blatant gerry mandering and anti democratic and ive yet to hear a yes voter give a realistic believable explanation on this issue ?

cptdodger
17-Jul-15, 14:25
Nothing to do with this thread at all, but Rob do you remember I was talking about watching the history of all the Highland hospitals on their television at Raigmore? I asked The Highland Archive Centre on facebook if there was a link this is what they replied to me -

Highland Archive Centre (https://www.facebook.com/highlandarchives) Valerie, Hi. This presentation is not available online. It was derived from a research project undertaken on behalf of the NHS. A copy of the final report 'The Hospitals of the Highlands - their origin and development' is available to view in the Archive Searchroom. Many of the images are taken from photographs held in the NHS Highland Health Board Archives which again are available to view in our searchroom. Please contact us directly at archives@highlifehighland.com if you have any further questions. HAC

So, I take it from that they have a website as well !

rob murray
17-Jul-15, 14:30
Nothing to do with this thread at all, but Rob do you remember I was talking about watching the history of all the Highland hospitals on their television at Raigmore? I asked The Highland Archive Centre on facebook if there was a link this is what they replied to me -

Highland Archive Centre (https://www.facebook.com/highlandarchives) Valerie, Hi. This presentation is not available online. It was derived from a research project undertaken on behalf of the NHS. A copy of the final report 'The Hospitals of the Highlands - their origin and development' is available to view in the Archive Searchroom. Many of the images are taken from photographs held in the NHS Highland Health Board Archives which again are available to view in our searchroom. Please contact us directly at archives@highlifehighland.com if you have any further questions. HAC

So, I take it from that they have a website as well !

Many thanks will try and track this site down !

squidge
17-Jul-15, 15:35
Shakes head

The SNP have been committed to the policy of giving 16/17 year olds the vote since the mid 80s. Since the came into government they have ensured 16/17 year olds get the vote in every electoral process where they have had the power to do so. When the decision was made to give the vote to 16/17 year olds EVERYONE (including the SNP) knew they were polling a majority for NO. It was however policy to give them the vote so that is what the SNP did.

No one living outside Scotland was able to vote in the referendum(except armed forces personnel) because it was a decision for the people of Scotland. People living here from all over the place. It was a decision to be made based on residency not ethnicity. And, actually, that was the right thing to do. It's a bit amusing that you are arguing that the SNP doesn't want the influence of people who live in England when many thousands of members are, in fact English, and even some of their Elected representatives (Gosh horror) are English too.

It's also a bit ironic that in a thread where we see muttering about "nationalist abuse" yet again, we also see the SNP referred to as the NSP in a sort of laughing up his sleeve sneering sort of way. The inference that the SNP is the same as the NSP is the most bizarre thing I have ever heard. After all the Ninja Sex Party aren't political at all, they are a comedy synth pop band for goodness sake.

rob murray
17-Jul-15, 15:46
Shakes head

The SNP have been committed to the policy of giving 16/17 year olds the vote since the mid 80s. Since the came into government they have ensured 16/17 year olds get the vote in every electoral process where they have had the power to do so. When the decision was made to give the vote to 16/17 year olds EVERYONE (including the SNP) knew they were polling a majority for NO. It was however policy to give them the vote so that is what the SNP did.

No one living outside Scotland was able to vote in the referendum(except armed forces personnel) because it was a decision for the people of Scotland. People living here from all over the place. It was a decision to be made based on residency not ethnicity. And, actually, that was the right thing to do. It's a bit amusing that you are arguing that the SNP doesn't want the influence of people who live in England when many thousands of members are, in fact English, and even some of their Elected representatives (Gosh horror) are English too.

It's also a bit ironic that in a thread where we see the muttering about insulting SNP members yet again, we also see the SNP referred to as the NSP in a sort of laughing up his sleeve sneering sort of way. The inference that the SNP is the same as the NSP is the most bizarre thing I have ever heard. After all the Ninja Sex Party aren't political at all, they are a comedy synth pop band for goodness sake.

Yer back....welcome..........................ta ta

rob murray
17-Jul-15, 15:53
Shakes head

The SNP have been committed to the policy of giving 16/17 year olds the vote since the mid 80s. Since the came into government they have ensured 16/17 year olds get the vote in every electoral process where they have had the power to do so. When the decision was made to give the vote to 16/17 year olds EVERYONE (including the SNP) knew they were polling a majority for NO. It was however policy to give them the vote so that is what the SNP did.

No one living outside Scotland was able to vote in the referendum(except armed forces personnel) because it was a decision for the people of Scotland. People living here from all over the place. It was a decision to be made based on residency not ethnicity. And, actually, that was the right thing to do. It's a bit amusing that you are arguing that the SNP doesn't want the influence of people who live in England when many thousands of members are, in fact English, and even some of their Elected representatives (Gosh horror) are English too.

It's also a bit ironic that in a thread where we see the muttering about insulting SNP members yet again, we also see the SNP referred to as the NSP in a sort of laughing up his sleeve sneering sort of way. The inference that the SNP is the same as the NSP is the most bizarre thing I have ever heard. After all the Ninja Sex Party aren't political at all, they are a comedy synth pop band for goodness sake.


Why oh why......................................ok your right you always are

golach
17-Jul-15, 16:19
Oh dear Rob Murray, how dare you speak or type ill of the party that's presently in power at Hollyrood, your are being insulting and totally wrong. Squidge is always correct and has a very thin skin when the Nats are mentioned, I know, I was told off on an alternative social media, by Squidge, telling me not to post or add anything on her pro Nat propaganda, in my humble opinion that is what the Nats are very good at cyber bullying, do not disagree with me or my opinions.Keep up the good work Rob Murray

rob murray
17-Jul-15, 16:28
Oh dear Rob Murray, how dare you speak or type ill of the party that's presently in power at Hollyrood, your are being insulting and totally wrong. Squidge is always correct and has a very thin skin when the Nats are mentioned, I know, I was told off on an alternative social media, by Squidge, telling me not to post or add anything on her pro Nat propaganda, in my humble opinion that is what the Nats are very good at cyber bullying, do not disagree with me or my opinions.Keep up the good work Rob Murray

Well...I agree she came charging in from knowhere, with offensive remarks aimed at me, when I had started the post off with a request for no sidey remarks, yet others had posted to, and her posting, which when you read it, makes little sense whatsoever. ie " It's a bit amusing that you are arguing that the SNP doesn't want the influence of people who live in England when many thousands of members are, in fact English, and even some of their Elected representatives (Gosh horror) are English too. ....now what is that about ! Any respect I had for the person is 100% gone. Yes she is nothing more than a cyber bully..well crack on wummen......as Alex said eh !! I wont resort to the gutter nor be bawled down.

rob murray
17-Jul-15, 16:52
Oh dear Rob Murray, how dare you speak or type ill of the party that's presently in power at Hollyrood, your are being insulting and totally wrong. Squidge is always correct and has a very thin skin when the Nats are mentioned, I know, I was told off on an alternative social media, by Squidge, telling me not to post or add anything on her pro Nat propaganda, in my humble opinion that is what the Nats are very good at cyber bullying, do not disagree with me or my opinions.Keep up the good work Rob Murray

Once upon a time there wis a great nation but its King took on another job so he wis 2 kings but that couldna happen so he became wan king.And then the parliament of that great nation wis flogged by a parcel of rogues and the once great nation became pert o what became Great Britain, but then a whiley later a chiel who called himself king but the English called a pretender tried to start a couple o rammies but all wis quate until another chiel came over fy France and started up a beeg fecht, he loost and then all ae clans who were in ae fecht were hammered by ae nasty English and then they all lost their wee hoosies and some went til Glesgo and some til America and some stied far they were. An at wis it until a a mannie came along and sade we should be a nation agane and bawled and shouted and they hed a vote aboot et and ae mannie and his pals loost. But ae mannie got a wifie in and they sade we never loost so wull fecht again and fechting is fit is goin on noo al ae time and ae folkies are scunnered seek o all ae cerry on and fechting and name callin. Cos ye see ae folkise hed a vote to, and ae folkies said noh, so ae folkies are thinkin maybe noh means yes.

squidge
17-Jul-15, 16:59
Aha So I put my head above the parapet and the lies and the insults start and from only one factual and I thought slightly amusing post. The NSP is indeed an abbreviation of Ninja Syth Party. It was supposed to be a humerous juxtaposition of outrage and nonsense but I guess the subtelties are lost on you guys.

It is with great regret that Golach seeks to be so rude to me and misrepresent the fact that I told him not to Troll MY personal Facebook page after another in a long line of insulting rude and unpleasant posts that I have tolerated for far too long as he is a dear old man who I remain rather fond of :/ but I guess I have to accept that.

It seems that there remains me only prepared to tackle the rubbish posted here and j am only doing so when something which is untrue or wrong us posted. sadly the attempts to silence any opposing views seem to have worked. I am only able to be here infrequently so I guess you can simply talk to yourselves until the next time.

cptdodger
17-Jul-15, 17:17
It's also a bit ironic that in a thread where we see the muttering about insulting SNP members yet again,

To my knowledge I never insulted any SNP members, Holyrood maybe, but if you are going to have a dig at Rob, include me in that, it's quite clearly not just him that dislikes the SNP (party, not voters)

golach
17-Jul-15, 17:31
Aha So I put my head above the parapet and the lies and the insults start and from only one factual and I thought slightly amusing post. The NSP is indeed an abbreviation of Ninja Syth Party. It was supposed to be a humerous juxtaposition of outrage and nonsense but I guess the subtelties are lost on you guys. It is with great regret that Golach seeks to be so rude to me and misrepresent the fact that I told him not to Troll MY personal Facebook page after another in a long line of insulting rude and unpleasant posts that I have tolerated for far too long as he is a dear old man who I remain rather fond of :/ but I guess I have to accept that. It seems that there remains me only prepared to tackle the rubbish posted here and j am only doing so when something which is untrue or wrong us posted. sadly the attempts to silence any opposing views seem to have worked. I am only able to be here infrequently so I guess you can simply talk to yourselves until the next time.Squidge I am feeling insulted here, I admit I am old, but I consider myself as being fairly cheap and in no way dear, if posting alternative opinions of your party is insulting , your wrong ,I think we live in a democracy, So my opinions are just as valid as yours. Please no more patronising posts .

squidge
17-Jul-15, 18:52
If that is what you had done Golach that would have been fine and perfectly acceptable. What you did, as you had done many times before is chuck in yet another dig and this was my response.

Stop trolling my Facebook page I am not engaging in any sort of argument with you honey cos you just fall out with me and say something rude. Because I like you that makes me sad. I hope you are well. xxx

I took the bits out that identify you and where you are but Folks can decide for themselves if that is bullying you. I have no more to say.

pS I was referring to the comment you made about nationalists being insulting cpt. I'm sorry if it was not clear

cptdodger
17-Jul-15, 19:49
pS I was referring to the comment you made about nationalists being insulting cpt. I'm sorry if it was not clear

Sorry, I'm not with you, did I say nationalists were insulting ?, or you think my comments regarding the SNP are insulting?

I can't get used to this Unionist, which I presume I am or Nationalist, I am not particularly keen on being branded to be honest.

cptdodger
18-Jul-15, 00:10
It seems that there remains me only prepared to tackle the rubbish posted here and j am only doing so when something which is untrue or wrong us posted. sadly the attempts to silence any opposing views seem to have worked. I am only able to be here infrequently so I guess you can simply talk to yourselves until the next time.

I have just re read your posts. It is only "rubbish" to you, because we do not tow the party line. You can shake your head as much as you like, you can try and tackle as much as you like, but I will tell you this, at least when we do post, it is not in the condescending manner in which you choose to. I am no expert in politics, but I can voice an opinion, I have no idea why the SNP do what they do, but I am allowed to discuss it. And thank you, we are quite happy talking to each other, I am sure we will manage "until the next time".

squidge
18-Jul-15, 01:51
The rubbish I referred to was that being spoken about 16/17 year olds being given the vote to swing the referendum when there is clearly evidence ( that has been shown on this board time and time again as we have had this discussion here again and again that this has been SNP policy for almost 30 years ) and the ridiculous suggestion that the electoral mandate should have been based on ethnicity, that somehow scots born people who no longer live here should have more of a say that someone from France, or indeed England, who actually lives here. In fact there were many occasions when I was told that I should not be campaigning or speaking up for independence because I am English and had no right to try to influence scots - told that by people supporting Better Together. Inwas also told a few times to "go back to England because "my type" were not wanted here in Scotland. The mandate could not be based on ethnicity because the referendum was not about ethnicity. It was not about "being Scottish".

Just for the record however I have never referred to you as a unionist. I haven't given any thought or asked anyone what they voted in the referendum since waking up on 19th September 2014. Seems to me however that it's all some people talk about.


If you think I am patronising by pointing out the inaccuracies, inferences and plain nonsense that i mentioned above then so be it. I will take on board your comments and bear them in mind next time I post. :)

Fulmar
18-Jul-15, 09:49
How about a lovely cyber group hug and start again?:D

cptdodger
18-Jul-15, 17:53
Just for the record however I have never referred to you as a unionist. I haven't given any thought or asked anyone what they voted in the referendum since waking up on 19th September 2014. Seems to me however that it's all some people talk about.

I will ask you again - Originally Posted by squidge http://forum.caithness.org/images/buttons/viewpost-right.png (http://forum.caithness.org/showthread.php?p=1124281#post1124281)
pS I was referring to the comment you made about nationalists being insulting cpt. I'm sorry if it was not clear (QUOTE)

Should there be a comma between nationalists and being, or are you saying nationalists are insulting?

cptdodger
18-Jul-15, 17:55
If you think I am patronising by pointing out the inaccuracies, inferences and plain nonsense that i mentioned above then so be it. I will take on board your comments and bear them in mind next time I post. :)

I actually said your posts are condescending, and going by the above quote, it seems you just cannot help yourself.

BetterTogether
19-Jul-15, 14:21
Brings to mind a wonderful line from the Great Bard himself 1602,Hamlet it would appear not much has changed in all these years. Methinks !

sids
19-Jul-15, 16:30
Brings to mind a wonderful line from the Great Bard himself 1602,Hamlet it would appear not much has changed in all these years. Methinks !

You think Squidge is in questionable shape?

Oddquine
19-Jul-15, 16:49
Would the NSP not claim that they have limited devolved powers though and westminster is not giving them what they want, re devolved powers, whilst now tying their hands behind their backs in westminster ? I can see that would be their spin on it.

What other spin can you put on it?

squidge
19-Jul-15, 19:19
You think Squidge is in questionable shape?Just as round as I always was Sids. :)

squidge
19-Jul-15, 19:28
I actually said your posts are condescending, and going by the above quote, it seems you just cannot help yourself.Oh for goodness sake. I'm not arguing - if you think I was patronising then so be it. That means exactly what it says. The intention was not there to be patronising but if you read that into my words and think I was then fair enough. I will indeed Really, truly, honestly, take into account your comments. I do that with all feedback I get. No condescension no patronising just acknowledgement and a commitment to think about it next time I post. Really, honestly, absolutely!!!But you know it's really hard to be nice around here. What I say is what I mean. No condescension or snideyness. That's it. I'm not sure it's worth it though

rob murray
20-Jul-15, 09:19
Oh dear Rob Murray, how dare you speak or type ill of the party that's presently in power at Hollyrood, your are being insulting and totally wrong. Squidge is always correct and has a very thin skin when the Nats are mentioned, I know, I was told off on an alternative social media, by Squidge, telling me not to post or add anything on her pro Nat propaganda, in my humble opinion that is what the Nats are very good at cyber bullying, do not disagree with me or my opinions.Keep up the good work Rob Murray

A bit like a seagull ( scorrie ) flys in, makes a lot of noise, dumps on people and then flies off..to tell the truth I really cannot be bothered.... Im not that into politics I'll stick with history on the history thread where people were civil, posts were very informative whole expereince was best ever on this forum ( from my view point ) learned a lot thanks to all ! The person in question can crack on, she obviously has read Dale Carngies classic.....How to win friends and inflence people. ......I will jump in when I feel that people are being shafted though as for consitutional stuff....nah.