12 hr waits in A&E increase by 300% in last year under SNP run NHS Scotland

[BetterTogether]

Here's some uncomfortable reading for those who support the SNP and its running of the NHS Scotland http://forargyll.com/2015/05/12-hour-waits-in-ae-in-scotland-increase-by-300-in-last-year-with-8-hour-waits-up-also-up-by-150/

[sids]

What did the SNP do to cause this problem?

[The Flea]

You ever give up?

[Rheghead]

Here's some uncomfortable reading for those who support the SNP and its running of the NHS Scotland http://forargyll.com/2015/05/12-hour-waits-in-ae-in-scotland-increase-by-300-in-last-year-with-8-hour-waits-up-also-up-by-150/

Let's put things into perspective rather than just focusing on Scotland and the SNP.

The number of people waiting over 4 hours to be seen has trebled right across the UK between 2011 and 2015.

http://www.nuffieldtrust.org.uk/infographic-whats-behind-ae-crisis

[cptdodger]

Regardless who's to blame there is a massive problem with the NHS, especially here. I am not just talking about waiting times, I am talking about a lack, and it is a major lack of staff, GP's, Nurses, Consultants and so on. Does anybody know what the NHS (Raigmore) pays out for travelling expenses? The cost of employing loculm GP's in the Riverside Practice must be astronomical, now, I attended that practice for just over a year, and I do'nt think I saw the same Doctor twice. My Consultant at Raigmore (Gastroenterology) told me he was quite prepared to attend Caithness General on a monthly basis to see his patients from this area there, as a lot of them are elderly, he said the powers that be would not allow this. Something has to be done, and quickly.

[cptdodger]

Just to add, I have only had to visit A&E twice, once in Thurso (Dunbar Hospital), and once in Caithness General. Both occasions I was seen straight away. When I had to go to Wick they thought I had had a heart attack, I cannot praise the Nurses, Doctors and a Consultant who was a professor highly enough, the care I received was second to none.

[Rheghead]

Staffing numbers are higher in Scotland than the rest of the UK.

http://www.nuffieldtrust.org.uk/data-and-charts/nhs-staffing-numbers-within-four-countries-uk

However, waiting times are higher in conservative areas like the south of England

http://www.nuffieldtrust.org.uk/data-and-charts/hospital-bed-availability-waiting-times-uk

[Shaggy]

Here's some uncomfortable reading for those who support the SNP and its running of the NHS Scotland http://forargyll.com/2015/05/12-hour-waits-in-ae-in-scotland-increase-by-300-in-last-year-with-8-hour-waits-up-also-up-by-150/

Makes a change from reading your uncomfortable and repetitive posts, numerous polls and continuous belittling of anyone who is a pro-independence or SNP supporter.

[BetterTogether]

Makes a change from reading your uncomfortable and repetitive posts, numerous polls and continuous belittling of anyone who is a pro-independence or SNP supporter.

Well why not give me a couple of examples that show the resounding success of the SNP and some of their policies that have made the lives of the people of Scotland so much better.
Very easy to complain about posts but not put anything worthy as a reply except for personal attack.

I fully understand the blind adoration most SNP voters have for the party but come on do all us unionists a favour, play ball show us some examples of where they have delivers resounding success.

If you don't enjoy the polls don't partake no one forces you to participate I fully support your democratic right not to bother.

Just as much as I hope you fully support my democratic right to have a differing point of view.

[BetterTogether]

What did the SNP do to cause this problem?The SNP have been in power for 7 years NHS Scotland is devolved so it's very much their problem you can't blame Westminster.
You ever give up?Not while they continue to run the service in such a shambolic way and blame everyone but themselves.
Let's put things into perspective rather than just focusing on Scotland and the SNP.The number of people waiting over 4 hours to be seen has trebled right across the UK between 2011 and 2015. http://www.nuffieldtrust.org.uk/infographic-whats-behind-ae-crisisBut this is isn't England, Wales Or Northern Ireland this is Scotland and the SNP are in charge and have been for 7 years passing the buck doesn't really do it aren't they supposed to be delivering more and better than anyone else. " Exemplo Ducimus " Lead By Example ....not blame everyone else

[Valiant209]

show us why conservatives are any better. Englands in a just state than ours but funny how you conveniently never bring examples over from England to back your claims. Part of the reason we have issues up here in Caithness is due to doctors not wanting to move up to a remote location.

[Rheghead]

But this is isn't England, Wales Or Northern Ireland this is Scotland and the SNP are in charge and have been for 7 years passing the buck doesn't really do it aren't they supposed to be delivering more and better than anyone else. " Exemplo Ducimus " Lead By Example ....not blame everyone else

But waiting times are lower in Scotland.

[BetterTogether]

show us why conservatives are any better. Englands in a just state than ours but funny how you conveniently never bring examples over from England to back your claims. Part of the reason we have issues up here in Caithness is due to doctors not wanting to move up to a remote location.

I can't say I've ever heard of a Conservative government in Scotland or winning a seat in Caithness.

If I lived in England id be quite happy to use examples but I don't, I live up here in Caithness and the SNP have run the show for 7 years now.

Previously to that it was Labour so blaming Conservatives for all the woes is just grievance politics.

[BetterTogether]

But waiting times are lower in Scotland.

The SNP made the promises not Labour,not Lib Dems, not the Conservatives so surely it's right they are held to account for THEIR promises .

http://www.theguardian.com/society/2015/mar/03/scottish-hospitals-a-and-e-waiting-times-bed-blocking-snp-nhs-scotland

[Valiant209]

The SNP made the promises not Labour,not Lib Dems, not the Conservatives so surely it's right they are held to account for THEIR promises .

http://www.theguardian.com/society/2015/mar/03/scottish-hospitals-a-and-e-waiting-times-bed-blocking-snp-nhs-scotland

http://news.stv.tv/scotland/1320191-sturgeon-praises-drop-ae-waiting-times-but-says-more-must-be-done/
a more recent article showing improvement. dated yesterday

[BetterTogether]

http://news.stv.tv/scotland/1320191-sturgeon-praises-drop-ae-waiting-times-but-says-more-must-be-done/ a more recent article showing improvement. dated yesterdayOne weeks results !

[Valiant209]

The results are done on a weekly basis your last article same thing.......

[BetterTogether]

Yes they are weekly results but showing one weeks improvement at the end of winter hardly shows a statistical long term improvement.
Considering the decline over a number of years of standards and hitting of targets one weeks results show little or nothing.

[Valiant209]

you think you could do any better? Do you know what the issues are that's affecting the NHS? Do you know how to resolve them? Its easy to blame people when you havn't a clue and that seems to be all you do.

[BetterTogether]

you think you could do any better? Do you know what the issues are that's affecting the NHS? Do you know how to resolve them? Its easy to blame people when you havn't a clue and that seems to be all you do.

I'm fairly well acquainted with the problems facing the NHS.

But the issue isn't how competent I am personally am with being able to resolve the issues I'm not being paid to resolve the issue but our government currently and previously headed by the SNP are the ones making promises and setting deadlines.
If you want to pay me the same amount as the first minister and give me the same powers I certainly couldn't do any worse.

One thing I did learn during my years of running Business's is never make a promise or commitment you can't fulfil. Shame our elected representatives don't use the same principle.

[Valiant209]

If you want to pay me the same amount as the first minister and give me the same powers I certainly couldn't do any worse.

One thing I did learn during my years of running Business's is never make a promise or commitment you can't fulfil. Shame our elected representatives don't use the same principle.

That would be an amusing prospect. maybe you should run for election next time round id vote for you just so i can watch you flounder.

[BetterTogether]

That would be an amusing prospect. maybe you should run for election next time round id vote for you just so i can watch you flounder.

I have no desire to enter politics on a professional level, but during my business years I've never failed to achieve the results required or turn a company back into profit if it's been failing.

Shame most MPs have little or no real business experience.

[Valiant209]

So you have no desire to enter politics no knowledge of politics yet choose to belittle and berate every chance you get. As you've said earlier you not experienced how a tory government or a lib-dem government would do up here. So can can you know they will do any better? How do you know they wont do any worse? Oh and before you accuse me of being an independence fanatic im a unionist.

[sids]

One thing I did learn during my years of running Business's is never make a promise or commitment you can't fulfil.

You'd have to unlearn that to be a polititian, or you'd get no votes.

[sids]

id vote for you just so i can watch you flounder.

You already did that with the SNP.

[BetterTogether]

So you have no desire to enter politics no knowledge of politics yet choose to belittle and berate every chance you get. As you've said earlier you not experienced how a tory government or a lib-dem government would do up here. So can can you know they will do any better? How do you know they wont do any worse? Oh and before you accuse me of being an independence fanatic im a unionist.

Now just to try dig into your answer a bit.

Lack of desire to enter politics on a professional level doesn't equate to no knowledge of politics I'm not quite sure how you managed that quantum leap care to explain in words over one syllable ?

I've lived in Tory controlled areas so have experience of Tory run councils, so I've experience of them.

Now the big things is Scotland hasn't elected a Conservative Governement but seems to always complain about how hard done by they are by the Tories when reality is all their councils have been SNP, Labour or Libdem run for longer than I care to remember.
As for Holyrood again never under Conservative government so Scotland can't really complain about the conservatives since the founding of Holyrood.

[Rheghead]

Caithness used to be a Conservative seat so we have first hand experience of tory rule as well. No more.

[sids]

Caithness used to be a Conservative seat so we have first hand experience of tory rule as well. No more.

You've got a good memory. How old were you in 1964, when "we"were having first hand experience?

And you reckon the MP "rules us!" Hee hee!

[golach]

Caithness used to be a Conservative seat so we have first hand experience of tory rule as well. No more.Were you even born then Rheg 😃

[sids]

Here's what Wiki has about Sir David Robertson's evil Tory reign over Caithness and Sutherland:


Robertson campaigned for economic development of the Scottish Highlands, arguing that Caithness made cement which came from the Medway in Kent.[10] In 1953 he attempted to amend the budget to exempt from income tax the profits of trades by local communities, motivated by the people of Thurso who had banded together to do work which was normally reserved to local government. He failed to persuade the Treasury.[11]

When the site of Dounreay was chosen for a nuclear power establishment, Robertson welcomed the choice and hoped it would lead to repopulation of the highlands.[12] He also attempted to stop the increase in charges for freight on rail, claiming that sheep could be brought from New Zealand cheaper than from his constituency...........

....... In 1957 he introduced a Private Member's Bill, the North of Scotland Development Corporation Bill, which was aimed at setting up a group to attract new industries to his constituency and around.

[Rheghead]

Yes I have had first hand experience of tory rule. It ended up with 3 million unemployed, then they changed the rules so that certain claimants were not unemployed but merely retraining then it rose again to 3 million unemployed. like any regime that is drunk on power, it fell away through allegations of sleaze.

[BetterTogether]

So you're going all the way back to the early 1980s to show a point don't you think the world has changed a bit since then and moved on. Can you name one politician of any party that's still in Parliament from that era. Maybe you should move with the times a bit it does get a bit dull using history to grind your axe all the time.

I mean we could dwell on the problems created in the 1970s, the three day week, rubbish piled high in the streets, the dead remaining unburied, unions crashing whole sections of industry through intransigence but what would the point be the worlds moved on the set of circumstances that created such a sick country thankfully no longer exist.


http://www.ons.gov.uk/ons/rel/lms/labour-market-trends--discontinued-/january-1996/unemployment-since-1881.pdf

[sids]

Caithness used to be a Conservative seat so we have first hand experience of tory rule as well. No more.


Yes I have had first hand experience of tory rule. It ended up with 3 million unemployed, then they changed the rules so that certain claimants were not unemployed but merely retraining then it rose again to 3 million unemployed. like any regime that is drunk on power, it fell away through allegations of sleaze.

You are master of the non sequitur.

[Rheghead]

So you're going all the way back to the early 1980s to show a point don't you think the world has changed a bit since then and moved on. Can you name one politician of any party that's still in Parliament from that era. Maybe you should move with the times a bit it does get a bit dull using history to grind your axe all the time.

I mean we could dwell on the problems created in the 1970s, the three day week, rubbish piled high in the streets, the dead remaining unburied, unions crashing whole sections of industry through intransigence but what would the point be the worlds moved on the set of circumstances that created such a sick country thankfully no longer exist.


http://www.ons.gov.uk/ons/rel/lms/labour-market-trends--discontinued-/january-1996/unemployment-since-1881.pdf

Tories don't need to be in parliament to have a huge influence on tory policy. In fact it is the norm for an out-of-government member who is familiar to speak to the press about policies and how they can be 'improved', a job that would damage an MP if they had done it themselves. You only have to look at Rifkind and Major for a recent example.

[sids]

Tories don't need to be in parliament to have a huge influence on tory policy.

Is that because Tories are actually Tories?

[BetterTogether]

Is that because Tories are actually Tories?You get what it says on the tin, unlike the mix and match SNP you put a bit left in a bit right in and do the Hokey Cokey and you turn about that's what it's all about .

[sids]

Nationalism rears its ugly head, here and there, from time to time.

Sometimes it may be a good thing. Guys went off to repel and defeat the Nazis.

Other times, it may have been unfortunate, as in the American Confederacy.

In Ireland, they had genuine grievances. They got "freedom" and immediately had a civil war, followed by an eternity of poverty. Their oppression would have ended by now anyway.

Scotland has no worse problems than everyone else these days. The Nats just decide things are really bad and it's all the fault of the Auld Enemy.

There is growing up to be done.

[gleeber]

Nationalism rears its ugly head, here and there, from time to time.

Sometimes it may be a good thing. Guys went off to repel and defeat the Nazis.

Other times, it may have been unfortunate, as in the American Confederacy.

In Ireland, they had genuine grievances. They got "freedom" and immediately had a civil war, followed by an eternity of poverty. Their oppression would have ended by now anyway.

Scotland has no worse problems than everyone else these days. The Nats just decide things are really bad and it's all the fault of the Auld Enemy.

There is growing up to be done.

The only bit of that that makes any sense is the Irish bit and that makes no sense either. :confused
It took 2 to tango in Ireland and it'll 2 to tango in Scotland too. Thankfully the nationalists and the Unionists in Ireland are talking to each other now. They ended up hating one another.
Do you not think it's very insulting to compare, however loosely, Scottish Nationalism with Nazism? Its actually as close to Unionism but I would never hold that against a unionist.
There's a particularly virulent strain of Scottish unionism on the internet and I know I would be best ignoring it but sometimes I just want to scream. Its obvious something's happening in Scottish politics and it may be that eventually it'll strengthen the unionist case but one things for sure all the talking down to needs to stop.

[BetterTogether]

Seems to me the Nationalists are very thick skinned when dishing it out but incredibly thin skinned when it comes to recieving not such good news about their cause.
Both sides have an unpleasant side but currently the Nationalist minority fraction seem to be doing the lions share of rabble rousing.
Now why would any unionist stop talking down the nationalist cause we won a referendum by a significant majority but still the Nationalist are rattling on trying to get their own way.
At the moment we have a party the SNP that has distinctly failed to provide a single coherent rational costed out reason for breaking up the union, but still insists on using grievance and spin to try and persuade a large section of somewhat gullible electorate to trust them because it will be alright on the night.

[sids]

Do you not think it's very insulting to compare, however loosely, Scottish Nationalism with Nazism?

Yes. Did somebody do that?

[gleeber]

Seems to me the Nationalists are very thick skinned when dishing it out but incredibly thin skinned when it comes to recieving not such good news about their cause.
Both sides have an unpleasant side but currently the Nationalist minority fraction seem to be doing the lions share of rabble rousing.
Now why would any unionist stop talking down the nationalist cause we won a referendum by a significant majority but still the Nationalist are rattling on trying to get their own way.
At the moment we have a party the SNP that has distinctly failed to provide a single coherent rational costed out reason for breaking up the union, but still insists on using grievance and spin to try and persuade a large section of somewhat gullible electorate to trust them because it will be alright on the night.
Maybe your right Bettertogether. Perhaps I am dishing it out but it wasn't my intention. Your a fairly ardent unionist and i'm sick of your moaning. I voted yes in the referendum after giving it a lot of thought. Ive always respected the unionist viewpoint but there's been a particularly virulent unionist presence on the internet since the referendum. I'm aware there's probably the opposite hard-line nationalists groups too but I don't go looking for it. I've rarely seen it on the org. Squidge and Rheghead stood their ground against some pretty insulting behaviour during the referendum but they did it with respect. Some of the early unionists who were banned from the org and blamed pro SNP moderation for their demise didn't realise how insulting they were being. That's how they got banned and you were lucky not to get banned either. Scottish politics have changed. You are going to have to get more accommodating towards a nationalist position if your ever going to keep the union together. Your attitude is as much a danger to the union as Alex Salmond.


Yes. Did somebody do that?
Yes. You did.
At least I will argue your intention was to associate Scottish nationalism with Nazi ideology. Why else would you bring the Nazis into it?

[gleeber]

You haven't got a clue.

The above post was in reply to something bettertogether put on and then took off and edited.

[BetterTogether]

Maybe your right Bettertogether. Perhaps I am dishing it out but it wasn't my intention. Your a fairly ardent unionist and i'm sick of your moaning. I voted yes in the referendum after giving it a lot of thought. Ive always respected the unionist viewpoint but there's been a particularly virulent unionist presence on the internet since the referendum. I'm aware there's probably the opposite hard-line nationalists groups too but I don't go looking for it. I've rarely seen it on the org. Squidge and Rheghead stood their ground against some pretty insulting behaviour during the referendum but they did it with respect. Some of the early unionists who were banned from the org and blamed pro SNP moderation for their demise didn't realise how insulting they were being. That's how they got banned and you were lucky not to get banned either. Scottish politics have changed. You are going to have to get more accommodating towards a nationalist position if your ever going to keep the union together. Your attitude is as much a danger to the union as Alex Salmond. Yes. You did. At least I will argue your intention was to associate Scottish nationalism with Nazi ideology. Why else would you bring the Nazis into it?

I must say I find your post mildly disturbing and worrying to say the least.

I sincerely hope that you aren't a moderator.

I could easily say I'm quite sick of some of the posts that I disagree with on here but I respect people's freedom of speech, so when I find myself disagreeing I either answer or ignore the posts.

[sids]

Yes. You did.
At least I will argue your intention was to associate Scottish nationalism with Nazi ideology. Why else would you bring the Nazis into it?

I mentioned people fighting the Nazis, as an example of a positive side to nationalism.
I'll read it again- if it's confused you so thoroughly, maybe I didn't write it very well.

[sids]

Nationalism rears its ugly head, here and there, from time to time.

Sometimes it may be a good thing. Guys went off to repel and defeat the Nazis.
.

That looks clear enough to me.

I don't believe you really even thought it meant the SNP are Nazis.

[BetterTogether]

Gleeber what you appear to suggest is that vociferous unionists silence themselves on here or else they will be banned that's quite disturbing and not really what one expects in a civilised society that values personal liberties and freedoms.

Respect for others views is a two way street maybe you should consider that Scottish Politics has changed, the referendum was held the Unionist won and although the SNP have won 56 seats at this election they may well go the way Labour has if they fail deliver on their promises.

Nothing in politics is fixed or definite especially a rapidly expanding parties future.

[golach]

Gleeber what you appear to suggest is that vociferous unionists silence themselves on here or else they will be banned that's quite disturbing and not really what one expects in a civilised society that values personal liberties and freedoms. Respect for others views is a two way street maybe you should consider that Scottish Politics has changed, the referendum was held the Unionist won and although the SNP have won 56 seats at this election they may well go the way Labour has if they fail deliver on their promises. Nothing in politics is fixed or definite especially a rapidly expanding parties future.Hear hear , could not have put it better

[BetterTogether]

Many thanks Golach I expect the occasional dig in the ribs on here it's expected not quite so used to veiled threats being issued though.

That may well give an insight as to why so many people voted No in the referendum the fear of being silenced unless they toe the official party line.

Freedom of speech suppressed ruthlessly any dissent quashed, it does sound eerily reminiscent of regimes around the world right minded people abhor.

[sids]

Ok are we agreed that everybody is threatening everybody else?

[squidge]

It is always surprising when people who are smart enough to know better fling around the veiled references to supporters of the SNP being a nazi/fascist/totalitarian organisation. In fact, it's often not so veiled. It goes along with the comments that we see so often played out on this forum that somehow all the people who voted SNP are duped or having the wool pulled over their eyes.

The SNP is a main stream political party with a democratic constitution where one member has one vote. So at the conference recently where there were 3 thousand delegates every single one of those delegates had the same number of votes as those members on the National Exec, the same number of votes as Nicola Sturgeon or John Finnie or any of the PArliamentary candidates. A conference where anyone could table a motion and did.

The Westminster parliament and the crazy press have to recognise that. And actually THAT is what is scaring the bejesus out of them. not the 56 MPs in parliament, not Nicola Sturgeon but the very idea that the SNP has become the main party of Scotland, that it will be strong enough tO have its voice heard and that the voice of the SNP will be that of the ordinary members, and that it will challenge the cosy world of two party politics. What scares them is that the rest of the UK will hear a different voice and think - hang on a minute, maybe there is something else we can do and educate themselves like so many have done in Scotland, and turn away from the system and then what will they do.

[BetterTogether]

A sensible question for you squidge. How do you reconcile the new rules for SNP,MPs about not criticising the party or other Members with their duty to the electorate to represent them all. What happens if an elected SNP MP is given a problem by one of their electorate that requires criticism of the party or another member. Don't you for see there may be a possible conflict.

[sids]

A sensible question for you squidge. How do you reconcile the new rules for SNP,MPs about not criticising the party or other Members with their duty to the electorate to represent them all. What happens if an elected SNP MP is given a problem by one of their electorate that requires criticism of the party or another member. Don't you for see there may be a possible conflict.

MPs blabbing to the newspapers with gripes about their party doesn't go down well in the other parties either.

[sids]

I can read the word "Nazi," without assuming it means me.

Am I wrong in that?

[crayola]

I mentioned people fighting the Nazis, as an example of a positive side to nationalism. I'll read it again- if it's confused you so thoroughly, maybe I didn't write it very well.Don't beat yourself up about it. You wrote it perfectly well, the meaning was clearly as you state.

[sids]

Don't beat yourself up about it. You wrote it perfectly well, the meaning was clearly as you state.

Is it safe to say "parrot stranglers," or will the cap fit?

[crayola]

Believe it or not, someone I work with would get upset if you said that! Seriously! But she likes parrots a lot which is different from wilfully taking offence at the mere mention of Nazis. Unless they don't think it's good nationalism to fight Nazis maybe?

[squidge]

A sensible question for you squidge. How do you reconcile the new rules for SNP,MPs about not criticising the party or other Members with their duty to the electorate to represent them all. What happens if an elected SNP MP is given a problem by one of their electorate that requires criticism of the party or another member. Don't you for see there may be a possible conflict.

There amendment you mention actually talks about individuals PUBLICLY criticising other members and party policies. As a business leader I'm sure you would have been to many management meetings where decisions were made that were not agreed by the whole of your management team and where robust debate had taken place to decide what course of action to take. Once the decision had been made to implement a course of action I doubt you would be too pleased to find one of your team slagging the others off in the tea room or running to the papers. As a civil servant, I was used to the situation where once the decision had been made we were expected to implement that decision. The arguing and disagreeing shoud take place in private. Once the decisions have been made and the policies agreed then thats it. if you disagree with party policy the place to get it changed is at conference, where you can put forward a motion and delegates can vote. Not by running to the press.

If a constituent required help with a problem which meant criticism of the party or another member then I would expect that there would be exactly that - criticism but that it wouldn't be done by Better Together MP writing an article for the paper about Squidge MP for example. If there had been a serious crime like an allegation of child abuse, there would be a full and frank investigation. (Wouldn't that be refreshing?) if the criticism is of a less serious nature then I would expect that in the course of investigating the concerns of the constituent the facts would become clear and if there was an apology or restitution to be made by either the party or another member then a press release would be drawn up and a formal response would be made.

Interestingly I checked the labour party's standing orders and they have pretty much the same condition too.

Do I think there is a possible conflict? Well, in so much as it is always hard to investigate a colleague or your own group, of course there is the possibility for conflict. But robust systems for ensuring that, where there is internal wrangling or wrongdoing it can be resolved or confronted mean that each MP will be sure they have both the support and protection of the party if they require it.

[katarina]

It isn't the SNP that's to blame, it's the Highland Heath Board, who think they are saving money by moving everything to Inverness. Maybe they are saving money - who's to say? But they are, no doubt, putting more lives at risk.

[wavy davy]

It isn't the SNP that's to blame, it's the Highland Heath Board, who think they are saving money by moving everything to Inverness. Maybe they are saving money - who's to say? But they are, no doubt, putting more lives at risk.

The Highland Health Board are part of the Scottish NHS, funding for which is entirely under the control of an SNP led Scottish Government.