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View Full Version : SNP Home And Hosed In Caithness, Sutherland and Easter Ross?



scorrie
26-Apr-15, 21:13
With a bit of time to go to the actual Polling Day the Bookmakers have taken the view that it is all over and done for John Thurso and the Lib Dems in the local constituency.

The SNP have been favourites for quite some time but the odds have been sliced this past week or so and are now at a level where it is considered a virtual certainty that they will triumph.

You have to hand it to these bookies, who have odds available for every seat up and down the country, be it one hundred to one odds-on shoo ins or otherwise.

Earlier odds had SNP 2/5 Favourites and the Lib Dems 15/8 but the best price now available on the SNP is 2/7 with William Hill and as low as 1/8 with some firms. Lib Dems vary from 5/2 out to 9/2.

Basically the odds indicate that the worst case scenario odds give John Thurso an 18% chance of keeping his seat and it's deemed as certain as an 89% chance that the SNP will gain the seat.

BetterTogether
26-Apr-15, 21:22
Best everyone who voted Yes in the referendum tactically votes Lib Dem and gives the SNP the bloody nose they truly deserve.

Sticks in my throat a bit to do so but I really can't be doing with another referendum in a year or two.

Once in a generation...once in a lifetime ....yeah yeah we all believe that ...NOT .

Kevin Milkins
27-Apr-15, 00:08
I am not big on politics, but I have to say that John Thurso fought my corner on an issue I had with Business Stream that were pursuing me relentlessly for an unreasonable amount of money that I did not owe them, all my efforts to make them see sense failed but a few letters yours truly got them off my back.

Having said that, I had a card from the post office to say that they could not deliver two letters due to unpaid deficient postage. I collected the two letters from the sorting office and paid the £1.54 each because stamped on them was IMPORTANT, the contents was more important to them than it was to me and they were the same letter sent twice with no stamps.
My thoughts were that this is a party that would aspire to run the country, but cant even get their own basic admin right.

rob murray
28-Apr-15, 15:46
With a bit of time to go to the actual Polling Day the Bookmakers have taken the view that it is all over and done for John Thurso and the Lib Dems in the local constituency.

The SNP have been favourites for quite some time but the odds have been sliced this past week or so and are now at a level where it is considered a virtual certainty that they will triumph.

You have to hand it to these bookies, who have odds available for every seat up and down the country, be it one hundred to one odds-on shoo ins or otherwise.

Earlier odds had SNP 2/5 Favourites and the Lib Dems 15/8 but the best price now available on the SNP is 2/7 with William Hill and as low as 1/8 with some firms. Lib Dems vary from 5/2 out to 9/2.

Basically the odds indicate that the worst case scenario odds give John Thurso an 18% chance of keeping his seat and it's deemed as certain as an 89% chance that the SNP will gain the seat.

Bookies rarely get it wrong, if we get an SNP MP similar to the complete idiot MSP Rob Gibson thne we get we deservce I suppose

r.rackstraw
28-Apr-15, 21:56
I am not big on politics, but I have to say that John Thurso fought my corner on an issue I had with Business Stream that were pursuing me relentlessly for an unreasonable amount of money that I did not owe them, all my efforts to make them see sense failed but a few letters yours truly got them off my back.

Having said that, I had a card from the post office to say that they could not deliver two letters due to unpaid deficient postage. I collected the two letters from the sorting office and paid the £1.54 each because stamped on them was IMPORTANT, the contents was more important to them than it was to me and they were the same letter sent twice with no stamps.
My thoughts were that this is a party that would aspire to run the country, but cant even get their own basic admin right.

Me too! I took a problem to John Thurso and he spared no effort to sort it. And I know other folk that he has helped. I will be voting for the man, not the party.

Rheghead
28-Apr-15, 22:01
What actually has John Thurso done for the county that you could say has his stamp on it? Nothing really.

Scout
29-Apr-15, 08:04
What actually has John Thurso done for the county that you could say has his stamp on it? Nothing really. What has the SNP done? They have had 7 years, Oh yes the Trams at cost, people who have right to take over land public money. Stop people who live in Council houses if they wanted to buy, and split the country in half and scotland families. What great job SNP has done so far.

Rheghead
29-Apr-15, 08:49
I notice you couldn't answer the question. Stopping people buying council houses is a good thing. Very forward thinking instead of short term political gain. They brought in the A9 speed cameras, it is now a pleasure to drive it. And they've promised to dual it. They've frozen the council tax. They've abolish prescription charges. They've created Creative Scotland. They've put more police on the streets. They've banned irresponsible alcohol offers. Abolished parking charges at NHS hospitals and tolls on bridges. They've raised the age to buy fags to 18. They are building new hospitals and filling them with more doctors and cleaners. Lowered class sizes in primary schools. Building new schools. Free bus travel for older people. I could go on and on...

What has John Thurso ever done for us?

Scout
29-Apr-15, 09:29
I notice you couldn't answer the question. Stopping people buying council houses is a good thing. Very forward thinking instead of short term political gain. They brought in the A9 speed cameras, it is now a pleasure to drive it. And they've promised to dual it. They've frozen the council tax. They've abolish prescription charges. They've created Creative Scotland. They've put more police on the streets. They've banned irresponsible alcohol offers. Abolished parking charges at NHS hospitals and tolls on bridges. They've raised the age to buy fags to 18. They are building new hospitals and filling them with more doctors and cleaners. Lowered class sizes in primary schools. Building new schools. Free bus travel for older people. I could go on and on...

What has John Thurso ever done for us? Yes they have done few but I notice you never mention about the cost of the Tram project. Hospitals, Well I am sure people will have different view to that in Caithness traverling 120 miles every time. Yes many of the things you have mention do not come free someone is paying for it. Council house, so you are saying someone who has made something of their life should not have the right to buy? To your question about John Thurso. I am sure people who have contacted John has seen good results, myself have had really good help from him. Investments to the area John is really knowledgeable which helps to understand business needs and how to attract investment. John was brought up in Caithness Thurso again helps. I hope this has answer your points.

BetterTogether
29-Apr-15, 09:41
I notice you couldn't answer the question. Stopping people buying council houses is a good thing. Very forward thinking instead of short term political gain. They brought in the A9 speed cameras, it is now a pleasure to drive it. And they've promised to dual it. They've frozen the council tax. They've abolish prescription charges. They've created Creative Scotland. They've put more police on the streets. They've banned irresponsible alcohol offers. Abolished parking charges at NHS hospitals and tolls on bridges. They've raised the age to buy fags to 18. They are building new hospitals and filling them with more doctors and cleaners. Lowered class sizes in primary schools. Building new schools. Free bus travel for older people. I could go on and on...What has John Thurso ever done for us?

How about we pick apart those statements a wee bit.

Free prescriptions ....removing money from front line services by allowing those who can easily afford prescriptions pay for the.

Frozen the council tax... Stopping councils raising the funds to do important work hence more problems elsewhere and cut backs.

Banned alcohol offers... Still under legal revue not yet implemented

Class sizes have increased for the fourth year

Police on the street no longer accountable and we've been faced with routinely armed officers and children stopped and searched.

Fags buying well I'm not sure public schoolboys ever actually brought their fags.

But cigarettes is the route the rest of the United Kingdom is going down

A9 speed cameras a sticking plaster to the larger issue of the road should of been prioritised for dual carriage way a long time ago.

Toll charges is just robbing Peter to pay Paul the money still has to come from somewhere and bridges cost money to up keep

Pensioners enjoy free bus passes across the UK


school and health centre builds on hold

http://www.heraldscotland.com/politics/scottish-politics/european-rule-change-means-delays-for-new-schools-and-health-centres.118183220

So what we actually have is a lot of hot air and vote winning freebies but little substance.

We also see the SNP bogged down in a legal battle over alcohol with the EU.
Contracts for the schools and health centres wrong which shows they can put all the policies they like in place but seem to either run into legal or contractual problems.

Failure after failure after failure to implement their own policies year after year. If it where any other party you'd be screaming utterly incompetent and not fit for purpose.

Let's not mention the Trams Debacle a fine example of SNP largesse and overspend.

I see no issue of allowing People to buy their council houses as long as the money is ploughed back into building new ones, I mean Nicola Sturgeons on parents benefitted from that policy.

Ballymore
29-Apr-15, 13:15
Just a wee note - the SNP tried to stop the Edinburgh tram but were voted down by the Tories, Lib Dems and Labour.

Scout
29-Apr-15, 13:21
Just a wee note - the SNP tried to stop the Edinburgh tram but were voted down by the Tories, Lib Dems and Labour. Off course SNP was not at fault [lol]

piratelassie
29-Apr-15, 14:07
Best thing the SNP has done is working on land reform. Long overdue, too many absent landlords.

Scout
29-Apr-15, 14:40
Best thing the SNP has done is working on land reform. Long overdue, too many absent landlords. Yes at Taxpayers money is it good value?

rob murray
29-Apr-15, 15:52
What actually has John Thurso done for the county that you could say has his stamp on it? Nothing really.

Well for starters, how about rescuing jobs in girnigoe street, government offices which were going to be closed and re located and getting new work re located to JCP Wick where there is a section dealing with asylum seekers benefits processing / migrant benefits etc......what has the buffoons buffoon the glorious Rob Gibson SNP MSP done for us...sweet FA !! A complete non entity.

willie-eckerslike
29-Apr-15, 16:02
What's with this John "Thurso" anyway ? He's a Sinclair as was his faither. He's obviously somehow embarrassed about this if he adopts a moniker like that.

LMS
29-Apr-15, 16:17
Well for starters, how about rescuing jobs in girnigoe street, government offices which were going to be closed and re located and getting new work re located to JCP Wick where there is a section dealing with asylum seekers benefits processing / migrant benefits etc......what has the buffoons buffoon the glorious Rob Gibson SNP MSP done for us...sweet FA !! A complete non entity.I have had several issues which I needed to contact my MP and MSP about. John Thurso was very prompt in replying and very helpful. My response from Rob Gibson - absolutely hee-haw.

Rheghead
29-Apr-15, 16:20
Well I had cause to contact Rob Gibson recently and I had a very prompt reply like the same day.

rob murray
29-Apr-15, 16:22
Well I had cause to contact Rob Gibson recently and I had a very prompt reply like the same day.

Thats because he has he haw to do...got to fill his time some how

rob murray
29-Apr-15, 16:24
What's with this John "Thurso" anyway ? He's a Sinclair as was his faither. He's obviously somehow embarrassed about this if he adopts a moniker like that.

Ok, how about he calls himsel Jock SInclair fae Thirsa, so what

willie-eckerslike
29-Apr-15, 16:48
Ok, how about he calls himsel Jock SInclair fae Thirsa, so what

Yes, but he doesn't - that's the point. He'd rather present this effete and phony persona than just be honest about who he really is.....which is how you put it.

rob murray
29-Apr-15, 16:53
Yes, but he doesn't - that's the point. He'd rather present this effete and phony persona than just be honest about who he really is.....which is how you put it.

He would probably get more votes if he stood as Jock Sinclair lol lol

Rheghead
29-Apr-15, 17:11
Why doesn't he add the 3rd Viscount bit so we know we will have to vote for him then.

willie-eckerslike
29-Apr-15, 17:19
Why doesn't he add the 3rd Viscount bit so we know we will have to vote for him then.

He could give me the whole packet of Viscounts and I still wouldn't vote for the insincere ponce.

Fulmar
29-Apr-15, 19:22
John Thurso gave a great deal of help to friends of mine who were being persecuted at a time when no one else (including the police) were interested in what was happening to them. His help made all the difference to them and ensured that the correct action was taken.
Anytime we have contacted him, he always replies promptly and follows things up.
He has done a good job, whatever happens from here on in so drop the name calling please. The only person it reflects upon is yourself.

willie-eckerslike
29-Apr-15, 20:14
John Thurso gave a great deal of help to friends of mine who were being persecuted at a time when no one else (including the police) were interested in what was happening to them. His help made all the difference to them and ensured that the correct action was taken.
Anytime we have contacted him, he always replies promptly and follows things up.
He has done a good job, whatever happens from here on in so drop the name calling please. The only person it reflects upon is yourself.

And how do we know you're not a LibDem stooge ? This sounds like one of those TripAdvisor reviews that the owner posts pretending to be a customer.

LMS
29-Apr-15, 21:08
John Thurso has been a good MP and I couldn't fault him. I'm a Tory supporter, and always have been, but I believe in giving credit where credit is due. I presume Fulmar is giving such credit as well, regardless of his politics.

willie-eckerslike
29-Apr-15, 21:21
John Thurso has been a good MP and I couldn't fault him. I'm a Tory supporter, and always have been, but I believe in giving credit where credit is due. I presume Fulmar is giving such credit as well, regardless of his politics.

Aye those Eton educated boys know just what it's like for the common man. Now remind me, who else in politics is Eton educated...... ?

rob murray
29-Apr-15, 21:24
And how do we know you're not a LibDem stooge ? This sounds like one of those TripAdvisor reviews that the owner posts pretending to be a customer.

Come off it....ANd what stooge are you...is if we dont know....the current MP has done good work that I am aware of ( see earlier post on his involvement in preserving civil service jobs in Wick...thats a fact and many people know this and will be eternally grateful ) and I aint a lib dem stooge never voted LD in my life, Im just someone aware of the facts....and I repeat Rob Gibson....yawn yawn yawn useless, complete buffoon, brilliantly represents his buffoon party.

rob murray
29-Apr-15, 21:27
He could give me the whole packet of Viscounts and I still wouldn't vote for the insincere ponce.

This is ridiculous and the mods should remove this if they've any guts !

LMS
29-Apr-15, 21:42
Aye those Eton educated boys know just what it's like for the common man. Now remind me, who else in politics is Eton educated...... ?Yip, John Thurso knows exactly what goes on in my world, me being an average working taxpayer.

Just because someone has been educated in Eton doesn't make them a poor MP, it just makes the chip on typical left-winger voters' shoulders even bigger than normal.

BetterTogether
29-Apr-15, 22:12
It's reported in the press today a few fine quotes from the SNPs Candidate for Caithness, Sutherland & Easter Ross, Paul Monaghan " I for one will never accept anything less than Independence " that in itself id fully expect from an SNP candidate as is no great surprise.

The bit that does make me wonder what kind of person he truly is and I quote " never mind the referendum just declare independence ".

Is that the sort of view someone living in democracy and seeking to be elected should be airing such a worrying disdain for democratic process has no place in any party within Scotland.

Does make you wonder whether he considers he should be just given power and allowed to wield it as he pleases with no thought or regard for the people of Scotland and their democratic all held beliefs.

BetterTogether
29-Apr-15, 22:17
Oh and another wonderful idea totally an SNP idea showing how frugal they are with tax payers money. Let's us not forget that wonderful white elephant brought on the cheap but not guzzling money like there's no tomorrow. Prestwick Airport .

squidge
30-Apr-15, 08:26
Ahhhh the trams. Let's see. The tram project was approved by the Scottish Government in 2003 by The labour led Scottish government. At Edinburgh Council the SNP councillors voted against the project but it was passed by the rest of the council.

In 2007 the new SNP minority government tried to scrap the project because of problems with the planning, the costs, and questions over whether it was serving travellers in the best way it could. They lost that vote and after audit Scotland confirmed the project was "sound" had to award funding despite their misgivings.

The SNP has put in place an enquiry into the tram project. They fairly recently upgraded the enquiry to a statutory enquiry which means that people will have to give evidence when required. And yet, it is still the fault of the SNP that the trams were a fiasco.

There are things that you can blame the SNP for but the trams really isn't one of them.

It's also perhaps worth reminding people that wick is having a new high school, the new primary school is well on its way and that several harbours have received funding from the SCottish government. There seemed to be a strong sense of optimism around the energy sector from people I was talking to at dinner in Caithness this week too. The new Forth crossing is an impressive piece of engineering, every time I drive down I look at it and think "wow" as it nears completion. That project is coming in on time and on budget. In fact the Scottish Government has been able to release money from that project to dual parts of the A9 that were not scheduled to be done for a wee while.

BetterTogether
30-Apr-15, 08:35
So we have two new schools at massive expensive when the ones we have could of been renovated.

Harbours recieving grants and we are supposed to feel grateful, it's taxpayers money the area doesn't get anything for free.

We also have a new carbuncle of a council building with leaks and market area that's not fit for purpose.

Schools running late and over budget.


I notice squidge tactfully avoids mentioning Prestwick airport.

If all you can really mention is one project in 7 years on budget that's actually pretty woeful

cptdodger
30-Apr-15, 10:09
I have never voted Lib Dem in my life, but John Thurso helped me with an issue I had a few years back, so I might not agree with his politics, but unlike the other MP's here, he made every effort to help me. One thing I cannot understand is - why do people have such a problem with MP's that have gone to fee paying schools such as Eaton, Harrow and so on ? When my daughter started school, we lived in Walthamstow, East London. I cannot tell you the problems I had with that school, it was just awful. I would have, in a heartbeat, if I had had the money sent her to the equivalent of Harrow or Eaton (I think they are boys only schools) because regardless of the politics I wanted the best start for all my children. At the end of the day you can knock Cameron and whoever else went to these schools as much as you like, but I actually do'nt think they had much say in the matter when they were 5 years old.

LMS
30-Apr-15, 11:04
There seemed to be a strong sense of optimism around the energy sector from people I was talking to at dinner in Caithness this week too.

Enlighten us more please on this point - the energy sector is doom and gloom as far as anyone I know is concerned.

rob murray
30-Apr-15, 13:03
Ahhhh the trams. Let's see. The tram project was approved by the Scottish Government in 2003 by The labour led Scottish government. At Edinburgh Council the SNP councillors voted against the project but it was passed by the rest of the council.

In 2007 the new SNP minority government tried to scrap the project because of problems with the planning, the costs, and questions over whether it was serving travellers in the best way it could. They lost that vote and after audit Scotland confirmed the project was "sound" had to award funding despite their misgivings.

The SNP has put in place an enquiry into the tram project. They fairly recently upgraded the enquiry to a statutory enquiry which means that people will have to give evidence when required. And yet, it is still the fault of the SNP that the trams were a fiasco.

There are things that you can blame the SNP for but the trams really isn't one of them.

It's also perhaps worth reminding people that wick is having a new high school, the new primary school is well on its way and that several harbours have received funding from the SCottish government. There seemed to be a strong sense of optimism around the energy sector from people I was talking to at dinner in Caithness this week too. The new Forth crossing is an impressive piece of engineering, every time I drive down I look at it and think "wow" as it nears completion. That project is coming in on time and on budget. In fact the Scottish Government has been able to release money from that project to dual parts of the A9 that were not scheduled to be done for a wee while.

A strong sense of optimism around the energy sector from people I was talking to at dinner in Caithness this week to....so your one of the chattering classes, get real for heavens sake I dont see the liquidation of Polamis / job cuts at Atlantis marine as "optimism" I dont see any wave tidal devices in the Pentland firth nor do I expect to do so....I do see plenty of windfarms though ! SO you are 100% wrong or maybe you had a dram or 2 to manhy eh ! Your local SNP candidates job "experience" will come in very handy for post Dounreay "foodbacks / voluntsray section" in Caithness :.....from his web site :

For my first degree I researched and reported on the sources of stress and the coping strategies deployed among the police officers and support staff of Northern Constabulary. For my Ph.D., which I undertook having won a prestigious Collaborative Award in Science and Engineering from the Economic and Social Research Council, I considered the role of Scotlandís largest voluntary organisation in the development and implementation of social policy, in Scotland, during the post-war period. I am a Graduate Member of the British Psychological Society and a Fellow of the Institute of Leadership and Management.....great stuff but utterly useless as regards understanding inductry / commerce

rob murray
30-Apr-15, 13:09
Enlighten us more please on this point - the energy sector is doom and gloom as far as anyone I know is concerned.

Yep...what was Alexis famous sound bite...the saudi arabia of reneable energy...tell that that to the failed projects, redundant workers and complete lack of any progress with tidal / wave power...dont belive me...just look out at the Pentland Firth and post to me what you see as regarsd wave / tidal devices ??....nothing ! . Not to mention the squandering of public funds chasing an impossible "dream"...still at least we got wind farms...and they employ 100's of locals eh ?? The SNP stratgically got it very very wrong on 2 counts

1 Complete failure / over estimation of wave / tidal energy
2 Oil price / oil revenues contribution to the economy

100% facts / undeniable ( unless your a blind stupid zealot ) still people believe in who shouts the loudest and by god the SNP are masters at shouting and evasion.

BetterTogether
30-Apr-15, 13:23
Let us not forget the supposed life span of a wind turbine is 25 yrs and they'll pay for themselves after 24.8 yrs. that makes economic sense.

squidge
30-Apr-15, 17:01
Enlighten us more please on this point - the energy sector is doom and gloom as far as anyone I know is concerned.I don't really know any more than that LMS. I was quite surprised to be honest but they seemed genuine enough - and no, they weren't politicians. They were perhaps wrong as Rob suggests and I am no expert on the Energy sector so I'm happy to put right if you like.:)

Rob I'm not sure why being invited to dinner at someone's home by default, cos they had asked the friends I was staying with makes me one of the "chattering classes". I'm not even sure what that is, although it must be a bit insulting honey, cos you never say anything nice.

Don't you ever get invited out to someone's home for dinner Rob. That's a bit of a shame. We are having a "Political Party" on Thursday night next week here in Inverness. I'll be cooking "dinner" (gasp horror) and it will be full of the "chattering classes", couple of motorbike instructors, couple of students, me - part -time training officer, a guy who runs a catering business, a guy who works in a cafe, and a guy who isn't working just now. Think I'm doing pulled pork and there will be a few beers. You should come, you would be very welcome and might find you like it. Just a hint, you should bring flowers for the hostess ;)

BetterTogether
30-Apr-15, 18:06
I do believe the term " chattering classes " is quite easily referenced on the Internet.

But for those unable or unwilling to use Wikipedia.

Here's an extract to give you a pretty good idea.

The chattering classes is a generally derogatory[1] term first coined by Auberon Waugh[2] often used by pundits and political commentators to refer to a politically active, socially concerned and 'highly' educated section of the "metropolitan middle class",[1] especially those with political, media, and academic connections.

It is sometimes used to refer to a liberal elite, but its first use by British right wing polemicist Frank Johnson in 1980 appeared to include a wider range of pundits.[1] Indeed, the term is used by people all across the political spectrum to refer to the journalists and political operatives who see themselves as the arbiters of conventional wisdom.[3] As such, the notion of 'chattering classes' can be seen as an antonym to the older idea of an unrepresented silent majority (made famous by the U.S. Republican President Richard Nixon).

rob murray
01-May-15, 10:25
I don't really know any more than that LMS. I was quite surprised to be honest but they seemed genuine enough - and no, they weren't politicians. They were perhaps wrong as Rob suggests and I am no expert on the Energy sector so I'm happy to put right if you like.:)

Rob I'm not sure why being invited to dinner at someone's home by default, cos they had asked the friends I was staying with makes me one of the "chattering classes". I'm not even sure what that is, although it must be a bit insulting honey, cos you never say anything nice.

Don't you ever get invited out to someone's home for dinner Rob. That's a bit of a shame. We are having a "Political Party" on Thursday night next week here in Inverness. I'll be cooking "dinner" (gasp horror) and it will be full of the "chattering classes", couple of motorbike instructors, couple of students, me - part -time training officer, a guy who runs a catering business, a guy who works in a cafe, and a guy who isn't working just now. Think I'm doing pulled pork and there will be a few beers. You should come, you would be very welcome and might find you like it. Just a hint, you should bring flowers for the hostess ;)

Nope I dont......Oh surprise suprise so Im insulting eh, well you are insulting club member number 2 dear. ! See below for a more informed breakdown of the definition of chattering classes, ( I meant it as a joke you know ...a northern Clivesden set ......) dinner... thanks but no thanks, Ive high blood pressure, have to watch where I go / what I am exposed to. To be frank, mores the pity I wasnt there as I couldve challeneged the "optimism" you refer to ( you wrote about dinner party / tidal / optimism, I could say Seaforth Club, football, Wick Academy and Euro Championships, for all the sense these remarks on tidal power optimsims makes / meant : here a few links so you can see yourself and do your own digging as well, but in short, a combination of untried techology, unworkable technology, severe weather challenges, lack of investment and yes collective government policy / approaches all combine to tip wave / tidal backwards...

remember the spin...Wave / tidal jobs would seemlessly scoop up redundant dounreay workers.....plastered enough in local newpaper supplements ( paid for by us ) given the anti nuclear power station stance of the SNP I suppose at the time Salmon had to raise some hope for the abandonded up north, cos what on earth is going to replace Dounreay...but another Dounreay and thats not going to happen.

http://renews.biz/79732/wave-and-tidal-staring-into-abyss/

http://www.greentechmedia.com/articles/read/The-Outlook-for-Wave-and-Tidal-Energy-Looks-Bleak

http://www.thejournal.co.uk/business/business-news/wave-tidal-energy-sector-critical-8392593

rob murray
01-May-15, 10:26
I do believe the term " chattering classes " is quite easily referenced on the Internet.

But for those unable or unwilling to use Wikipedia.

Here's an extract to give you a pretty good idea.

The chattering classes is a generally derogatory[1] term first coined by Auberon Waugh[2] often used by pundits and political commentators to refer to a politically active, socially concerned and 'highly' educated section of the "metropolitan middle class",[1] especially those with political, media, and academic connections.

It is sometimes used to refer to a liberal elite, but its first use by British right wing polemicist Frank Johnson in 1980 appeared to include a wider range of pundits.[1] Indeed, the term is used by people all across the political spectrum to refer to the journalists and political operatives who see themselves as the arbiters of conventional wisdom.[3] As such, the notion of 'chattering classes' can be seen as an antonym to the older idea of an unrepresented silent majority (made famous by the U.S. Republican President Richard Nixon).

Thanks, I meant it as a joke you no...a anorthern Clivesden set !!

Murdo
01-May-15, 11:03
Nae sayers, or John Thurso supporters or chattering classes or whatever. I think we all have to accept that the political landscape in Scotland has changed for our lifetime

rob murray
01-May-15, 11:34
Nae sayers, or John Thurso supporters or chattering classes or whatever. I think we all have to accept that the political landscape in Scotland has changed for our lifetime

Off that there is no doubt ! For better or worse change will come, so I hope its not a hard rain a falling !

squidge
01-May-15, 17:40
Thanks, I meant it as a joke you no...a anorthern Clivesden set !!I got that it was a joke Rob.. The dinner offer still stands tho... Perhaps you could bring better together for support and a calming effect on the evening lol

maverick
01-May-15, 18:11
John Thurso voted along with his Tory friends for austerity measures to be implemented, those measures attacked the most vulnerable in our society. Every person who has died as a direct result of those measures, their blood is on the coalitions hands.

smithp
01-May-15, 19:24
Time to offload those Brylcream and moustache wax shares then?

scorrie
08-May-15, 07:41
As predicted, we have a new MP and the SNP are home and hosed all over Scotland, not just here.

The exit polls were Pooh-poohed by all sides as they were announced. Hats and kilts were promised to be eaten if:-

"We do that badly", "They do that well", "We don't get more seats than that"

I hope they tasted good.

It's always the same, people refusing to face reality, and the exit polls were simply echoing bookmakers odds, particularly where Scotland was concerned and they actually quoted odds for the SNP to win all 59 seats. OK the odds on that were 5/1, which is still an indication that something is unlikely, but it showed that they were in line to sweep Scotland.

We had a studio full of politicians and political pundits who were in a state of shock and denial but it was nothing more than what was expected by the bookies and those who actually specialise in what will actually happen, rather than all the waffle and hot air.

Here's an idea for the next election. Get a bookmaker on the panel to help tell the politicians what's actually going on and take a side bet if some people don't agree.

As to the SNP doing well, some Labour people were blaming the SNP for putting David Cameron back into Number 10. What a load of rubbish, Labour were never going to get enough seats for a majority and a coalition with the SNP was always the only realistic way to shift the Conservatives. The SNP held up their end of the deal but the Labour Party elsewhere couldn't win enough seats to get the job done between the two parties and instead Labour ran the line of pretending the could get enough seats all by themselves, when there wasn't any chance whatsoever of that happening.

I think only a handful of politicians interviewed during the night were actually realistic about what was going to happen, so good on them for not trotting out the normal "Fantasy Island" party line. The Labour Party were told a long time ago that they would never get into power with Ed Milliband as their leader but there's always this childlike faith that it's the politics that will win the day. Oh yes, that will be right, and my Granny once scored the winning touchdown for the Washington Redskins in the Superbowl. Less talk and more listening is recommended.

bekisman
08-May-15, 10:00
Just popped in to have a quick look before I'm off again, but my Congratulations to Nicol Sturgeon for destroying Labour up here and letting my Party The Tories back into power, thank you, could not have done it without her - thank you Nicola and the SNP.. Sorry about John Thurso, but suppose he can rest knowing that although SNP got 15,831 votes up her - the rest got 18,355..
I'm away again.. bye...............

BetterTogether
08-May-15, 10:05
I'd have to agree with Bekisman we can thank the SNP for delivering the conservatives a win. Now roll on the EU referendum and next years elections. As we all know the SNP now have 53 seats at Westminster let's see how they do.

rob murray
08-May-15, 10:22
I'd have to agree with Bekisman we can thank the SNP for delivering the conservatives a win. Now roll on the EU referendum and next years elections. As we all know the SNP now have 53 seats at Westminster let's see how they do.

They have 56 seats ! Labour destroyed themselves / they didnt do anywhere near as well as they thought in England...Scotland was lost months ago, dont blame the SNP voters, the reality they face is that the SNP will hold no leverage in Westminster, Cameron doesnt need them / they, hte SNP have shouted long and hard about never working with the tories..well there can only be one action then...referendum 2 in 2016.

rob murray
08-May-15, 10:35
Scottish National Party (SNP) leader Nicola Sturgeon said a British government without Scottish representation would be illegitimate, as she ramped up strategic demands for a post-election coalition with Labour.
Speaking at a rally in the market town of Dumfries, southwest Scotland, the SNP chief warned it would be unjust for the next government to be made up exclusively of English MPs.
Addressing crowds gathered at a campaign meeting on Monday, Sturgeon said the “test of legitimacy” that applies to the next government cannot simply be discerned by scale and historical traction.
“The test that must be applied is whether a government can build a majority and win support that reflects the whole of the UK,” she said.

Well she can strike that one off.....the next government will be 100% English MP's....Tories won thats democracy, so she either accepts this or has to go the whole hog...referendum again.

Shaggy
08-May-15, 11:01
you just can't be happy can you? yes the Tories won but still you are slagging off the SNP? give it a rest why don't you.

rob murray
08-May-15, 11:32
you just can't be happy can you? yes the Tories won but still you are slagging off the SNP? give it a rest why don't you.

Fine...Im not slagging off thw SNP, they won / wipe out etc cant change that.... Im merely pointing out that the Labour power sharing option is off isnt it, so what replaces it ? Given statements on not working with Tories ( and they dont need SNP support ) it raises a key question where next, thats all I did, raise the where next question which is going to dominate the political landscape and thats inevitable. Things will have to change. And yes Im giving it a rest t ta

squidge
08-May-15, 12:54
The SNP did not deliver a conservative win. Even if every single seat in Scotland had been labour the Tories would have formed the next government. Labour managed to lose the election all by itself.

What next is to become an effective third voice in parliament. With 56 MPs the SNP will ask more questions at PMQs, with 56 MPs the SNP will represent Scotland on Select Committees where Labour usually did that. With 56 MPs they will not so easily be dismissed or shouted down. They may even encourage Labour to make their voice of opposition louder and firmer too.

I'm bitterly disappointed to see a Tory government but that is what the rest of the UK voted for. It is another example of how votes in Scotland make no difference to General Election Results.

You know what though - a large number of MPs who are not full of the sense of entitlement that we have become used to seeing in Westminster is a good thing. I think we might see a few changes.

maverick
08-May-15, 18:02
Labour lost this election because they failed to connect with the people in England, they lied to the people Of Scotland during the referendum and the people punished them for it. Cameron was tactically clever he failed to deliver all the near federalism promised by the vow, Labour and the Lib Dems were punished for their deceit.

Mosser
08-May-15, 18:20
I'm not very political but I notice that half of Scotland did not vote for the SNP but they still have 56 seats while the other half get no representation, not really fair or democratic, is it time to change the system to proportional representation instead of first past the post?

weeker2014
08-May-15, 20:14
The tories will fight tooth and nail to keep first past the post. As you have just seen it only benefits them as it is a nightmare for labour to counteract the scottish seat loss through picking them up in England. You wont be seeing a change to voting at any point in the near future, at least not as long as there is a tory government in power.

gerry4
08-May-15, 21:48
You may also of noticed that the SNP have been saying for a while now, how unfair that is. They will now be pushing for PR.

BTW how did you vote in the referendum for electoral reform a couple of years ago?

Mosser
08-May-15, 22:06
So did the Lib Dems and a fat lot of good that did, back in (2011, I think) I voted yes for the alternative vote and if I remember correctly, at that time less than half of the elected MPs had the support of the majority of their voters

gleeber
08-May-15, 22:26
I prefer the first past the post system. I think it keeps them on their toes but I'm not bothered really. I'm more bothered by the bitterness that's developed since the referendum campaign began.

gleeber
10-May-15, 17:54
Well done to those of you who have defended Scottish Nationalism so honourably. I'm beginning to get more concerned about some of the comments I've been hearing from unionists on the internet and in the media. Most of it is virulent and derogatory towards nationalism. On Questiontime the other night Paddy Ashdown spoke about the dangers of Nationalism. A few other well known commentatators have hinted at it and the internets full of it. Well here's a thought. Nationalism is no more dangerous than Unionism.
The debates going round in circles now but it shouldnt go away. There's nothing wrong with debate but lack of respect for your political opponent is not good in a democracy.
The issue of Scotland needs to be sorted out once and for all.I'ts obvious there's something big happening in Scottish politics and we should embrace it with hope. A government is supposed to rule by consent of the people. I know theres as many never voted for SNP as did but its obvious people are getting involved like they never did before.
The next 5 years are going to be really interesting.

BetterTogether
10-May-15, 18:02
Nationalism has for many years had an unsavoury face, because people express concerns that it may lead to isn't unsavoury it's a reflection of some of the past events that nationalism has led to.

During the referendum debate anyone who was vocal from a unionist perspective would be leapt upon by a number of nationalist trolls using sometimes quite vile and abusive language.

The issue I believe was sorted out during the referendum which firmly planted the Unionist point of view as winning with 55% to 45%, during the general election Nicola Sturrgeons reason d'Ítre was to lock the Tories out in both instance the SNP has failed miserably.

Scotland has voted to remain part of the Union and the United Kingdom has a Tory majority government.

SNP voters should would be well reminded that it was the first minister herself who said the General Election was not about Independence and learn to accept the will of the majority instead of behaving like the unelected europhiles and keep demanding referendums until they wear the electorate out.

If we are now to believe that this is triggering another attempt at a referendum it will do nothing but prove one point. The SNP are not to be trusted and their words mean nothing.

Rheghead
10-May-15, 18:06
Honest words gleeber. I'm not a nationalist and I am independence-lite and there are lot who voted SNP who feel the same way. But Nicola Sturgeon is correct, things cannot go on as they are, we need to reform the UK as you cannot build a greater nation on anti-Scottish rhetoric.

Here is my take on what could save the Union.

1. Devomax for Scotland and for other regions in a federal set-up across the UK.
2. Full and proper Proportional Representation for a voting system.
3. A resounding Yes to staying in the EU.
4. Fully modernised Westminster. I do not relate to it at all, it looks like a museum.

That should do it.

BetterTogether
10-May-15, 18:20
Honest words gleeber. I'm not a nationalist and I am independence-lite and there are lot who voted SNP who feel the same way. But Nicola Sturgeon is correct, things cannot go on as they are, we need to reform the UK as you cannot build a greater nation on anti-Scottish rhetoric. Here is my take on what could save the Union.1. Devomax for Scotland and for other regions in a federal set up across the UK.2. Full and proper Proportional Representation for a voting system.3. A resounding Yes to staying in the EU.4. Fully modernised Westminster. I do not relate to it at all, it looks like a museum.That should do it.

Nothing like rejecting the democratic will of the people once again unless you've forgotten we all had a vote on changing the voting system.

There will be a vote on the EU that will fall as it will but will be a democratic choice by the electorate.

The Smith Commision recommendations will be implemented.

As for Westminster it's serves its purpose as a building why change it ,mind largess at taxpayers expense is always easy, at least it's not infested with mice like Holyrood.

Some of the SNP followers are starting to sound a bit animal farm " all animals are equal just some more equal than others "

Is there any particular reason you feel Scotland should get more money than the rest of the United Kingdom. Aren't the poor, disadvantaged ,sick and disabled just as deserving around the rest of the United Kingdom ?

Doesn't sound like you care much for people anywhere else except here now anywhere else that would be called Nimbyism or an I'm alright jack attitude.

gleeber
10-May-15, 18:25
That would be a start Rheghead but It still leaves the notion of Independence on the table, forever.
I think English nationalism will raise its head soon. They wont distinguish between Scottish Unionists or Scottish Nationalist. David Cameron was right. We're all in it together.:lol:

Rheghead
10-May-15, 18:26
Nothing like rejecting the democratic will of the people once again unless you've forgotten we all had a vote on changing the voting system.

There will be a vote on the EU that will fall as it will but will be a democratic choice by the electorate.

The Smith Commision recommendations will be implemented.

As for Westminster it's serves its purpose as a building why change it ,mind largess at taxpayers expense is always easy, at least it's not infested with mice like Holyrood.

Some of the SNP followers are starting to sound a bit animal farm " all animals are equal just some more equal than others "

More anti-Scottish rhetoric. If you want to keep the UK together and stay off another referendum then you should opt for a system that doesn't disempower but empowers all corners of the UK not just the South-east. It sounds like you want business-as-usual, live with the consequences then...

BetterTogether
10-May-15, 18:41
More anti-Scottish rhetoric. If you want to keep the UK together and stay off another referendum then you should opt for a system that doesn't disempower but empowers all corners of the UK not just the South-east. It sounds like you want business-as-usual, live with the consequences then...

I fail to see how any of what I posted is anti Scottish Rhetoric you ask for changes, but when faced with a reality one option has already been voted on by the population, one is to be voted on in a referendum and another has already been negotiated upon you call it anti Scottish.

The other is let's just build something because rheghead doesn't like it you call it Anti Scottish.

Seems you want to just implement massive change without any democratic process and enforce your will, that in no way sounds democratic and the vast majority of sane minded people would reject it utterly

Scout
10-May-15, 18:44
More anti-Scottish rhetoric. If you want to keep the UK together and stay off another referendum then you should opt for a system that doesn't disempower but empowers all corners of the UK not just the South-east. It sounds like you want business-as-usual, live with the consequences then... Yes but you are forgetting one thing, 55% said no to independence more power to Scotland. The ball is in the courts of SNP hands now. SNP is really no difference to Labour, spend spend spend bust.

BetterTogether
10-May-15, 18:52
Yes but you are forgetting one thing, 55% said no to independence more power to Scotland. The ball is in the courts of SNP hands now. SNP is really no difference to Labour, spend spend spend bust.

Yes true Scout but you've never seen Jim Murphy, Ruth Davidson or any other leaders whizzing around Scotland in a very expensive personally liveried Helicopter like Nicola Sturgeon even the queen doesn't have her face painted on the side of Hher helicopter .

Chocks away air sturgeon has taken to the air,next stop on her phillybusting waste of taxpayers money Prestwick airport after all it's own money who cares.

gleeber
10-May-15, 18:57
Your being dogmatic Bettertogether and ignoring the fact that politics have suddenly changed in Scotland. Its the power of the people. A lot of people who voted no in the referendum voted SNP at the General elction. I voted yes in the referendum but voted for John Thurso in the general election. People are different and would probably vote no in a referendum held in the next 5 years or 10 or whatever but you cant bury your head in the sand. I accept the result of the referendum but I cannot ignore the fact that somethings changed in politics in Scotland and the Scottish people are trying to say something. Im aware the other half are saying something else but that's what has to be sorted. I'm aware too of the dangers but those dangers come from a position of ignorance. The biggest danger is our own reactions to certain events. I find a particularly virulent form of unionism on the internet. I'm sure theres plenty from the other side too but I dont go looking for it. When it comes to the org its in my face and I try to understand it.

Rheghead
10-May-15, 19:03
Yes true Scout but you've never seen Jim Murphy, Ruth Davidson or any other leaders whizzing around Scotland in a very expensive personally liveried Helicopter like Nicola Sturgeon even the queen doesn't have her face painted on the side of Hher helicopter .

Chocks away air sturgeon has taken to the air,next stop on her phillybusting waste of taxpayers money Prestwick airport after all it's own money who cares.

No Ruth Davidson whizzes around in a tank and a quadbike. Seriously though, Ruth Davidson has already spoken of the benefits of lowering taxes and using extra powers to Scotland to encourage business because of what Scotland and its people have to offer to its own economy. However, her party's electoral potential suffers from her party's associations with Westminster. Break that bond and Conservative values may well return to Scotland.

sids
10-May-15, 19:03
Yes true Scout but you've never seen Jim Murphy, Ruth Davidson or any other leaders whizzing around Scotland in a very expensive personally liveried Helicopter like Nicola Sturgeon even the queen doesn't have her face painted on the side of Hher helicopter .

Chocks away air sturgeon has taken to the air,next stop on her phillybusting waste of taxpayers money Prestwick airport after all it's own money who cares.

The Queen's got her face on the money.

rob murray
10-May-15, 19:12
Honest words gleeber. I'm not a nationalist and I am independence-lite and there are lot who voted SNP who feel the same way. But Nicola Sturgeon is correct, things cannot go on as they are, we need to reform the UK as you cannot build a greater nation on anti-Scottish rhetoric.

Here is my take on what could save the Union.

1. Devomax for Scotland and for other regions in a federal set-up across the UK.
2. Full and proper Proportional Representation for a voting system.
3. A resounding Yes to staying in the EU.
4. Fully modernised Westminster. I do not relate to it at all, it looks like a museum.

That should do it.

1 Devo max or FFA only when the Scottish economy can handle it or we are f k d
2 A resounding yes from me
3 Yes
4 1-3 will modernise Westminster

However point 1 FFA....thats where Cameron holds all the cards, SNP have no say whatsoever and people have to understand that although its quiet clear many many dont, we are still part of UK and there is a Tory majority, an unpalatable but real fact, the issue is will Cameron construct a broad UK based devolved federal system which has to include NI, Wales, England and Scotland and keep his english tory heartland core support on side, they wont ever change first past the post..maybe its less hassle just to give 100% FFA to scots asap. If so then the macdisney economics behind the SNP will be exposed for all to see throug.....meet the new boss....same as the old boss...P Townsend

Rheghead
10-May-15, 19:38
How about offering federality to the Falklands, Isle of Mann and Gibraltar? A strengthening of ties would not go amiss and would be warmly accepted.

Scout
10-May-15, 19:54
How about offering federality to the Falklands, Isle of Mann and Gibraltar? A strengthening of ties would not go amiss and would be warmly accepted. Difference with Isle Of Mann, they welcome investment people who have made money and lower tax this will not be the case in Scotland.

Alrock
10-May-15, 21:28
As for Westminster it's serves its purpose as a building why change it ,mind largess at taxpayers expense is always easy, at least it's not infested with mice like Holyrood.

Westminster is crumbling with an estimated repair bill of £3 billion

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-30137334

sids
11-May-15, 12:59
How about offering federality to the Falklands, Isle of Mann and Gibraltar? A strengthening of ties would not go amiss and would be warmly accepted.

What a marvellous country that would be!