Inflamatory community council remarks

[BetterTogether]

It's been recently reported on this site that members of wick community council like to use the insulting and derogatory term " incomers " when referring to people from outside the area.

To say that this sort of terminology would be found totally unacceptable in any other part of the United Kingdom is an understatement,to then apportion blame of an increase in crime is beyond the pale.

Is it acceptable that these people are allowed to voice such sentiments publicly without any recourse or should they consider a public apology to the many decent and law abiding people who live, pay taxes and bring money into the area. Many councils would be looking for those concerned to resign and distance themselves from such comments.

The piece in question is below .

PEOPLE who have moved to the far north to improve their lives, are insulted at being branded as "incomers" and linked with a recent spike in the crime rate in Wick. That's the view of Jay Paterson who was stunned when members of Wick Community Council last week suggested people who have recently moved into the town could be to blame for police having to deal with 470 criminal incidents in Wick during March

[rogermellie]

Caithness has lots of incomers (not necessarally English BTW) who move up here to escape their horrible lives - only to discover that they are the reason their lives are so horrible

apart from the incoming offenders the other intolerable incomers are the ones with horrible children who come up here and take up all of the local school' time and resources with their horrible behaviour which their horrible parents are too horrible to admit is their fault

there's a lot of great incomers who we should embrace and cherish, but the scumbag incomers who bring their misery with them should be labelled as such .... 'scumbag incomers'

what else should the council call them ?

[BetterTogether]

I think maybe you should consider reading the Public Order Act 1986 and how dangerously close if not crossing the lines such comments actually are .


(1)A person who uses threatening, abusive or insulting words or behaviour, or displays any written material which is threatening, abusive or insulting, is guilty of an offence


Calling people incomers defines them as a group which is non native to the area and creates a culture of them and us.

Would it be considered acceptable if the term incomer was substituted for Jew, Muslim, Black,Gay or any other term which would find the members who uttered those comments being bought before the procurator fiscal and summarily dealt with.

I very much doubt that the crime statistics actually bear out the remarks made and do nothing for community cohesion, the use of such casual hate speech is to abhorred with modern society under any circumstances and is nothing but divisive.

I would expect members of a community council to avoid use of such inflammatory language and wonder at their suitability to hold such a position.

[Kevin Milkins]

I think the term "Incomers" is a very apt description for people that have come here to live, I prefer it to "White Settler". To proportion the blame for a recent spike in crime at a council meeting might be an error of judgment though, even if it was thought to be true.

Everybody in the area either came here in their generation, or through historic family migration, its just a matter of time before the accepted population decides that the incomers are "right enough", and that is down to the individuals that move here.

[dozy]

I think maybe you should consider reading the Public Order Act 1986 and how dangerously close if not crossing the lines such comments actually are .(1)A person who uses threatening, abusive or insulting words or behaviour, or displays any written material which is threatening, abusive or insulting, is guilty of an offenceCalling people incomers defines them as a group which is non native to the area and creates a culture of them and us. Would it be considered acceptable if the term incomer was substituted for Jew, Muslim, Black,Gay or any other term which would find the members who uttered those comments being bought before the procurator fiscal and summarily dealt with.I very much doubt that the crime statistics actually bear out the remarks made and do nothing for community cohesion, the use of such casual hate speech is to abhorred with modern society under any circumstances and is nothing but divisive.I would expect members of a community council to avoid use of such inflammatory language and wonder at their suitability to hold such a position.Maybe you should point this out to any of the Westminster Parties ,mainly King Cameron with what he has been saying over the last 5years . Divide and conquer. The unionist view is that the majority rule and should never be challenged ,well the community council represent the views of that community. Saying folk are incomers may be true ,but its not a phrase that should be used. All to many times we see incomers state the their feelings have been hurt, but locals feel that its their way of life that paying the price.
Better together seams hell bent on kicking any Scot that does not want to follow the Westminster line . We should all doff our hats and bend your knee the our Westminster Masters. This oppression has been tried before and lead to disaster, either we are equal part of the Union or NO part . Respect is easy to say but hard to live by, so let's all gree to show each other respect and let's have Westminster start by stopping this SNP bashing.

[BetterTogether]

Nice to see you accept the term shouldn't be used, but this isn't an issue of party politics, Westminster or anti Scotland this is an issue of ill thought out remarks by people in a position who should know better and would remain the same where ever it was said anywhere in the world.

Attempting to play any of the other cards is fairly shameless and just shows the attitude we oft see of its everyone else's fault accept mind. Maybe a little maturity is too much to ask from some people and just issuing an apology is too much from them.

I wonder how those community councillors would feel if it sneaks its way into the national news and brings shame to the Wick and the entire community. Maybe that's what's required national shaming of the individuals so they realise the error of their ways and the entire local community realises how unacceptable that type of divisive rhetoric is in today's modern society.

[bigmac]

not everyone is referred to as incomers or white settlers, if you go north ower e water they use the term ferry loupers, and if you go even further north to the land of the shetland vikings it south mouths, hope this of help to the council

[dozy]

I was on the board of a local trust and was subject to harassment , intimidation, bullying and discrimination from incomers (only used to help support facts) who had taken over the board. Let many locals I was being pushed out from organisation that were built on local principles. Because board members or NOT protected by law of the fore mentioned I could do nothing but resign. The law protects the instigator and not the victim . I do hate discrimination in any form ,you cant just come into a community and force your ideas on others. It was your choice to come into the county because you liked what you saw or felt. That community as is ,because the locals have made it that way, So please don't DISRESPECT the folk that you have chosen to join. Many times we hear Westminster saythat the Scots are not welcome at Westminster even when they are there legally. I think that folk should clean their own grate first before complaining about others. Respect is a two way street . We are happy to a folk join our community ,but not to take over and turn it into to the place they have chosen to leave behind.

[Rheghead]

I can't see what the problem is, the term incomer is not offensive. As an incomer all I can say is that only the Great Offended would see any offence in its use.

[BetterTogether]

I was on the board of a local trust and was subject to harassment , intimidation, bullying and discrimination from incomers (only used to help support facts) who had taken over the board. Let many locals I was being pushed out from organisation that were built on local principles. Because board members or NOT protected by law of the fore mentioned I could do nothing but resign. The law protects the instigator and not the victim . I do hate discrimination in any form ,you cant just come into a community and force your ideas on others. It was your choice to come into the county because you liked what you saw or felt. That community as is ,because the locals have made it that way, So please don't DISRESPECT the folk that you have chosen to join. Many times we hear Westminster saythat the Scots are not welcome at Westminster even when they are there legally. I think that folk should clean their own grate first before complaining about others. Respect is a two way street . We are happy to a folk join our community ,but not to take over and turn it into to the place they have chosen to leave behind.I'm sorry if you've had a bad experience and can imagine you would feel aggrieved if you've been bullied and intimidated or discrimated by people on that particular board. This isn't about changing the local community or the ways things are done although progress is to be expected and is sometimes necessary to keep abreast of the rapidly changing world we live in, this issue is about tempering the language used to make a more cohesive community no driving wedges ever more deeply. It's all well to lay blame at westminsters feet for every perceived problem but it should be well remembered that should the SNP get their most heartfelt desire then immigration would increase and the issue become even more acute.
I can't see what the problem is, the term incomer is not offensive. As an incomer all I can say is that only the Great Offended would see any offence in its use.Ah well each to their own as the issue has made the local papers have you considered for a moment that you may be the one great unoffended by anything person in the area.

[drotax]

Definition taken from Oxford dictionary.

Incomer - A person who has come to live in an area in which they have not grown up, especially in a close-knit rural community.

Of course not all incomers are bad and are to blame for crime, there are plenty of native s***e bags too. But you can't be insulted by the term incomer.

Pick the toys back up off the floor, you greeting about nothing.

[little miss breezy breeks]

I must say I find this thread quite amusing, why would anyone who isn't a Native of Caithness take offence at being called an Incomer?

I came here with my family when I was still at school, my Family all moved back south and I came back here to live as I loved it up here. Am I an Incomer/ white settler, well YES in my eyes I am, but I have always been made welcome and classed the same as anyone else, I have never been called an Incomer / white settler or anything else but it certainly wouldn't bother me if I was, I am a Glaswegian always have been always will be
So to all those people who take offence at being called an Incomer or white settler or anything else, get over it life's way to short to waste time on such petty thing's

[PantsMAN]

I must say I find this thread quite amusing, why would anyone who isn't a Native of Caithness take offence at being called an Incomer?

I came here with my family when I was still at school, my Family all moved back south and I came back here to live as I loved it up here. Am I an Incomer/ white settler, well YES in my eyes I am, but I have always been made welcome and classed the same as anyone else, I have never been called an Incomer / white settler or anything else but it certainly wouldn't bother me if I was, I am a Glaswegian always have been always will be
So to all those people who take offence at being called an Incomer or white settler or anything else, get over it life's way to short to waste time on such petty thing's

Great post Ms Breeks, I too am in incomer having moved here just under 40 years ago. All my family have been born in Caithness and I even have a relative in the cemetery, but I am fully aware I am still an incomer.
Disnae bother me, I've been called a lot worse!

[PantsMAN]

BTW, I wonder how many incomers are in the 'No Action' category?

[barmar62]

I'm an incomer, I wasn't born here, didn't go to school or grow up here. I'm proud to be who I am, and yes I work here and pay taxes etc, etc,:)

[dozy]

As a local I extend the hand of friendship to all that want to be part of the local community and welcome the exchange of idea's and life's colourful journey and backgrounds . Please join in and HELP OUR community to be a better and richer place to bring up children and be a strength to the sick , old or disabled . RESPECT .

[Niall Fernie]

I'm also an incomer and I'm also not offended by the term.

[BetterTogether]

One mans meat is another mans poison !

Needless to say the article was in the papers so while some may not feel insulted by the comment, that by no means lessens the fact that others are. Maybe it should be considered that tempering language and engaging in open friendly dialogue is the way forward rather than the rather tiresome and boorish labelling of people.

[Kevin Milkins]

I don't see description, "incomer" as labelling, but just a reference to someone that has moved to the area as opposed to someone that was born and raised here, it gets offensive when derogatory remarks are tagged to it.
If an "incomer" was tagged with a story of new employment opportunities, investor in the county, upstanding fund raiser for various charities, then the "incomer" reference would be far more acceptable.

[crichton]

Wow, am stunned by this thread.

[Kevin Milkins]

Wow, am stunned by this thread.

Which part are you most stunned by, to have a fair view of many opinions and get a debate going you may have to broaden your comment. I don't think anyone is right or wrong, but it is good to share feelings so that we may all be more tolerant towards each other.

[BetterTogether]

Which part are you most stunned by, to have a fair view of many opinions and get a debate going you may have to broaden your comment. I don't think anyone is right or wrong, but it is good to share feelings so that we may all be more tolerant towards each other.

I'd agree with you Kevin open discussion and debate of issues is what this forum should be about. I do enjoy stimulating debate.

I personally think the insulting part came when the councillors linked incomers to crime, thereby smearing a whole section of the community without any thought .
On its own incomer is neither here nor there, linked to an open accusation of incomers and crime increase it becomes very insulting.
The article also mentioned social housing, if correct that the councillors linked incomers crime and social housing in one sentence then effectively they are stigmatising one section of the community.
That shows a worryingly bigoted view.

[Kevin Milkins]

I'd agree with you Kevin open discussion and debate of issues is what this forum should be about. I do enjoy stimulating debate.

I personally think the insulting part came when the councillors linked incomers to crime, thereby smearing a whole section of the community without any thought .
On its own incomer is neither here nor there, linked to an open accusation of incomers and crime increase it becomes very insulting.
The article also mentioned social housing, if correct that the councillors linked incomers crime and social housing in one sentence then effectively they are stigmatising one section of the community.
That shows a worryingly bigoted view.

I don't disagree with any of the above.

[Bogbrush]

I too am an 'Incomer', and use this to great effect when engaging in banter with the unsophisticated local savages, what!

I'm sure my unsophisticated local savage friends would be ashamed to be represented by that community council, btw.

[janeyj]

We are ALL incomers.

Luv

Janey

[Rheghead]

I'd agree with you Kevin open discussion and debate of issues is what this forum should be about. I do enjoy stimulating debate.

I personally think the insulting part came when the councillors linked incomers to crime, thereby smearing a whole section of the community without any thought .
On its own incomer is neither here nor there, linked to an open accusation of incomers and crime increase it becomes very insulting.
The article also mentioned social housing, if correct that the councillors linked incomers crime and social housing in one sentence then effectively they are stigmatising one section of the community.
That shows a worryingly bigoted view.

Sorry Pete I couldn't help notice that you referred to some members on this forum in derogatory terms yourself. How do you rationalise your comments with your criticism of Wick Community Council?

[Scout]

I think so long as you are not coloured you get away with it :-)

[BetterTogether]

Sorry Pete I couldn't help notice that you referred to some members on this forum in derogatory terms yourself. How do you rationalise your comments with your criticism of Wick Community Council?

Well for starters my names not Pete but you should remember we use anonymous names for a reason so I'd appreaciate you not using first names even if they are wrong makes me feel you have that creepy stalker vibe going on !

Secondly I'm not a member of a community council so not accountable and therefor not held to a higher standard.

But when it's comes to you I have l'oreal moments I'm afraid.

Because you're worth it

[vectus]

Of course the number of reported crimes has gone up as the number of incomers has risen.
There is more population, more people with enough bottle to report crimes, and more people expecting the law, and enforcement of, to apply to everyone.

[Rheghead]

Well for starters my names not Pete but you should remember we use anonymous names for a reason so I'd appreaciate you not using first names even if they are wrong makes me feel you have that creepy stalker vibe going on !

Secondly I'm not a member of a community council so not accountable and therefor not held to a higher standard.

But when it's comes to you I have l'oreal moments I'm afraid.

Because you're worth it

Well Pete it was a predictive text error, but it may prove more predictive than predicted!

[BetterTogether]

Well Pete it was a predictive text error, but it may prove more predictive than predicted!I bet you say that to all the boys !

[Crackeday]

At 81% saying no action it is what it is-Nothing!!!!

[Scout]

Would the 81% be locals or Incomers [lol]

[Crackeday]

Would the 81% be locals or Incomers [lol]
Probably Local Incomers!!! [lol]