View Full Version : ASDA ... the argument continues ...
Tugmistress
03-Apr-07, 11:16
ok folks, the time is narrowing for the public enquiry for the ASDA development at Pennyland Farm in Thurso, and your help is needed again if you want this to happen.
Miller Developments are using the Auction Mart site as a 'blocker' proposing the planning application of a supermarket site there. I don't know about anyone else but I reckon with the two schools and the train station there and also a fairly popular builders yard, any supermarket development is only going to create a lot more hazardous conditions for residents and kids.
I am going to send the below as an objection of this, please feel free to use this as a draft for yourselves if you want to object too. Pennyland has got to be the site of choice for me personally, it's a lot better location and as for the increase in traffic there, there is a lot more scope for things to be done to the roads and a pathway made than the mart site.
We have until this weekend to get letters and emails in to the office.
please address snail mail to
Mr I Ewart
Highland Council
Planning & Building Standards
Council Offices
Wick
KW1 4AB
Planning Application Reference No - 07/00038/OUTCA
and i will find out the email addy and edit it into my post here. iain.ewart@highland.gov.uk
Deadline is Friday 6th April
my letter ...
Dear Mr Ewart,
I would like you to note my objection to the Erection of a (class 1) retail store, petrol filling station, class 9 housing, parking, landscaping, servicing, access and internal roads. Thurso Auction Mart, Ormlie Road, Thurso.
This is a very busy area already with a primary school and secondary school and college within half a mile or so each way. I feel the safety of the children would be put at risk if this planning were to go ahead with the obvious increase in heavy vehicles travelling there as well as normal consumer traffic. Also there is the train station next to the site and bus depot, the road system has nowhere to expand to cope with the increase in traffic.
I hope you will consider this objection seriously and consider not approving the application.
Yours Faithfully
I am not trying to be a devil's advocate here (as if!)but do you really think that a superstore on the mart site would be more hazardous for the kids?
The road at the moment is very dangerous. It is very straight and cars do tend to pick up speed there and there is a bit of a blind hill exactly where the pelican crossing is situated, plus side entrances(lovers lane/castlegreen in particular) and the junior school near town. The whole area is a mess.
I think a superstore would need a mini roundabout at the entrance which would serve to reduce speeds and give an ideal opportunity for the council to get to grips with road safety in that area. On the school side between the station, the pavement disappears as well, yet the kids still insist on walking along there even after being repeatedly told not to, the whole thing needs revamping.
If the traffic on that stretch is better managed due to ASDA going on that site then I think it could be a good thing.
Without a proper consultation, I think it could be foolhardy to reject the mart site on safety issues alone and nothing will happen unless something changes to the status quo or there is a death.
pentlander
03-Apr-07, 12:48
Nobody had any objections to the Cormacks Articulated lorries parked at the mart and blocking the pavement during sales. Forcing kids to cross where there is no crossing.
Asda could be forced to use the train as a condition of permission for transportation of goods.
It is all irrelevant anyway because even if Asda get permission to build on Pennyland Millers will look to offload the mart to Tesco, Aldi or whoever.
Tugmistress
03-Apr-07, 13:42
Hi Rheghead
Putting all the extra traffic in that area that a large retail store will draw is asking for trouble. If you are looking at the 2 sites head to head, one is surrounded by schools, train station, funeral parlour, college, dentists, nursery's etc etc. It already has 3 manned school crossings and one unmanned within 200mts of the site. The site I am supporting has NONE!! of these problems, Sorry one manned crossing about 400mts away.
and don't worry we all play devils advocate at times ;)
I would be surprised if they rejected it on those grounds tug, down here they have asda/tesco next to schools, swimming pools, busy roads, middle of residential housing areas !
i dont really care where they build it, just build it before i move home, i need my asda flapjack fix at least once a week or i get grumpy,
no no hang on grumpier !!!
Boozeburglar
03-Apr-07, 14:30
Seems a sensible place for a supermarket to me.
There are already manned school crossings in the area so there is no added burden to the taxpayer.
One road in, one out is the general rule and traffic can be 'calmed' around the area too. The slope of the site lends itself to an underpass entry too.
What has the location of the funeral directors got to do with it?
It works for Fort William having a supermarket at the railway station, why not Thurso?
Seems that having got so worked up about imposing a supermarket on a site particularly unsuitable and which constitutes a large block of Thurso's green and pleasant land you are starting to clutch at straws in your blinkered insistence that you were right and no other option should be considered.
Personally I predict that in ten years time 80% of shopping will be delivered to your door and the need will be for large distribution hubs. These will be located in existing low value sites (the site of the old mart would be particularly suitable with the railway there) and what will happen then to the other concrete cathedrals dotted around our town? They will end up going the way they sent the wee shops, abandoned and empty, left to ruin.
I suppose there will be those still winging that their rights are being infringed because they haven't the same shopping choice as those in the big smoke. Makes you wonder why they sought out this place or choose to stay.
Hi Rheghead
Putting all the extra traffic in that area that a large retail store will draw is asking for trouble. If you are looking at the 2 sites head to head, one is surrounded by schools, train station, funeral parlour, college, dentists, nursery's etc etc. It already has 3 manned school crossings and one unmanned within 200mts of the site. The site I am supporting has NONE!! of these problems, Sorry one manned crossing about 400mts away.
and don't worry we all play devils advocate at times ;)
I'm with you Tugmistress and my letter of objection is in the post.
I dont really mind where they put the ASDA as log as they do put it somewhere ... somerfield and the co-op are really dire at the moment. I went through to tescos on sunday and it was a refreshing change i got help with packing my bags trolly taken to the car and unloaded for me .. went to somerfield today and my wee one was acting up ..crying .. what do you expect from a 9 month old ... got no help in there at all..the old mart is looking run down and needs something done to it the pennyland area is getting built on now.. I dont mind where it goes but we need some competition for tescos in wick...it may make the rest of the shops buck up there ideas which is no a bad thing!
Just a note that i would like to point out, we all want a asda, but the development at the mart is being used as a BLOCKER, please not that word. that means no ASDA
It would be a crying shame if thurso was denied this for whatever reason.
And it would make me and others i am sure, wonder as to what the council are doing by trying to block this !!
pentlander
03-Apr-07, 16:28
Just to set a few people straight on a few points.
The Mart is not being used as a blocker. Millers purchased the mart and gave Asda first option on the site. Which they excepted.
Millers are as a business wanting a return on their investment and have a applied for outline permission for a retail store on the site. If permission is granted ahead of the Asda Inquiry Millers will object to pennyland on account of there being a suitable approved site available elsewhere. They would be daft not to.
If Millers applilcation is delayed and not approved prior to the Asda inquiry Millers will most likey take the council to court and claim their application has been unduly delayed to allow pennyland to proceed. This will result in both apllications being delayed by another year and most likely ending up on the desk of the minister responsible.
This is big corporate games with neither party giving a toss for the best intrests of Thurso.
Bigjjuck you and lots like you may want Asda but that is not the same as ALL of us.
Dadie. If you think Asda will make the local shops buck up their ideas I would ask you to take a walk down Wick high Street and see if you can find one positive point as a result of Tescos opening. Big shops come little shops go. Thats what happens, like it or not.
Pentlander your post is spot on in the development side there, but you missed the point. Yoiu are right that they would be daft not to object against the pennyland site. This is BLOCKING as they dont want to miss out on a sale, so objecting against pennyland. I appreciate this is the norm, but its still blocking.
This is big corporate games with neither party giving a toss for the best intrests of Thurso
Correct, also ask yourselves who's pulling the councils strings !
old pals act ? yes
pentlander
03-Apr-07, 17:32
Correct, also ask yourselves who's pulling the councils strings !
old pals act ? yes
Asda aproached Thurso council and said they wanted to open a store in Thurso. It was the council who suggested the Pennyland site. It was individual council members who used their vote to block the initial application not the council itself.
If you want a conspiracy theory heres one for you.
Tullock who will no doubt be building the new Asda at pennyland may have put pressure on the council to get retail stores to open at that end of the town to increase the value of the houses they will build by the battery factory. Is it possible that they may threaten to pull the plug on this new development if the council does not make some efforts to bring Asda to this side of the town. I am only speculating and have no evidence to suggest this is true interesting however that the council would suggest a green field site they knew was against the local plan when a brown field site which Asda has first refusal on is availabe at the other side of town.
Strange EH!
very, i should have said indivdual members, thats what i meant.
It has gone on for years and no doubt will continue for years, its sad when progress is halted so some may continue to line their pockets !
Stargazer
03-Apr-07, 19:53
If the market site is to remain an option, one condition would be to upgrade the road and junctions. At 9am and 3:15 the whole stretch of road from the college to the railway station is really busy. Try getting out of the junction beside Millers!
Use a derilict brownfield site, get an Asda and better roads all at the same time.
Tugmistress
03-Apr-07, 20:25
Seems a sensible place for a supermarket to me.
There are already manned school crossings in the area so there is no added burden to the taxpayer.
One road in, one out is the general rule and traffic can be 'calmed' around the area too. The slope of the site lends itself to an underpass entry too.
ok, there are already manned crossings there, but you as well as i and other people drive up and down that road so we know it, do you drive heavy haulage? (supermarket trailers i mean?) ... i do, traffic may be able to be 'calmed' in the area, but what about road widening for the swing of the lorries to enter for deliveries? how would this be accomplished? yes there is a wide area on the school sides at the moment where cars are parked ( i assume some are residents of the houses up that stretch of road) if this strip of land is used where would the residents park? on the road or in a supermarket carpark as some of those houses don't have drives if i remember rightly. do you drive up and down there when the schools are kicking out? it's a nightmare, even with manned crossings you know you have to watch out for the kids diving out in front of you, the car doors where mums/dads are piling the kids in that you could easily take off if you were not watching out etc. just a couple of off the top of my heads reasons why *I* don't think it is safe there. You mention the slope of the land is suitable for an underpass access, what about the other side of the road? where would the access start? it is also sloping uphill.
What has the location of the funeral directors got to do with it?
It works for Fort William having a supermarket at the railway station, why not Thurso?
Ok the train station, look at fort william, how easy it is to pull up at the station and wait for the train to pick up, drop off, meet, etc there? i don't know fort william station but i'll bet it's not as cramped as Thurso.
Seems that having got so worked up about imposing a supermarket on a site particularly unsuitable and which constitutes a large block of Thurso's green and pleasant land you are starting to clutch at straws in your blinkered insistence that you were right and no other option should be considered.
I certainly don't have a blinkered existance and i certainly don't pressume to think i am 'right', i have put forward *MY* opinion, to which each and every person is entitled to have of their own, if you think the mart site is more suited to a supermarket then that is your choice of your opinion and i will certainly respect that, whereas my choice of site is pennyland, the reasons given above are part of it, i also happen to think that pennyland doesn't constitute a 'green belt' area by the nature of where we are, green belts, to me, provide a little bit of countryside in what is predominantly an urban area where the community has no immediate or easy access to countryside surroundings. whether this be a correct assumption of the term greenbelt or not i don't know, but it is my interpretation.
Personally I predict that in ten years time 80% of shopping will be delivered to your door and the need will be for large distribution hubs. These will be located in existing low value sites (the site of the old mart would be particularly suitable with the railway there) and what will happen then to the other concrete cathedrals dotted around our town? They will end up going the way they sent the wee shops, abandoned and empty, left to ruin.
I suppose there will be those still winging that their rights are being infringed because they haven't the same shopping choice as those in the big smoke. Makes you wonder why they sought out this place or choose to stay.
I sincerely hope that this is not a dig at me being an 'incomer' and choosing to stay, why i stay is because i love it here, most people are friendly and helpful and the whole atmosphere of the place is just pure magic to me, it is so relaxing and not at the breakneck speed of most of the rest of the UK and long may it stay that way. personally i would like asda to get the planning for thurso at pennyland to give thurso a little bit of a boost so not everyone wanders through to the new metropolis of wick and it's large stores, this is not a one town county, there are two sides to it ;) and the county is big enough to hold a tesco one side and an asda the other.
HomeFixit
03-Apr-07, 20:48
I've recently returned to the county after several years down south and I have to admit I'm not quite up to speed on the ASDA debate yet. I think it would be great to have an ASDA here.
Can one of you seasoned ASDA campaigners out there let me know - are the two sites similar in size? My instinct is that the old mart site is by far the most sensible option for all the reasons Rheghead and Stargazer have said... the main thing against it in my opinion is that it doesn't seem a very big site for a superstore. Does anyone know the acreage figures for the two sites?
Bobinovich
03-Apr-07, 22:40
Personally I don't mind which site is used so long as something is done sooner rather than later. Thurso really needs a boost similar to that which Wick has received of late.
Yes Pennyland has benefits - there's simply less going on to worry about, but our Councillors have already indicated their opposition to that site. The mart site is 'derelict' and ready for development. It would use an existing free site and keep business 'in town' rather than on the outskirts like Tesco/Homebase/Argos are in Wick.
As one of the regular users of that end of Castlegreen Road (CGR), both when walking the kids to school and as a driver, I despair at the traffic sometimes. Off course it would help if those drivers turning right stuck close to the centre of the road so that other drivers filtering left could pass by but they frequently don't. However, before discounting the suitability of the site, I'd really have to see how the infrastructure of the site was going to be set out.
Firstly if one of the provisios of the proposed store was that the railway line had to be used for deliveries then that would be a major positive factor, satisfying both my environmental and traffic concerns.
Secondly, with the increased flow of traffic, something would have to be done at the bottom of CGR & top of Lovers Lane in order to allow traffic out regularly (especially those turning right from both junctions) - and I feel that this would almost certainly have to be traffic lights. This would, in turn, require a crossing point at the bottom of CGR and at Miller Academy for the safety of pedestrians. However I feel that both crossings would still need patrollers at the usual times due to the young age of the kids using them.
The inclusion of a roundabout for entry to/exit from the site would certainly curb the speed of traffic along Ormlie Road. The High School would have no real option but to ban kids from walking down the mart side - forcing them to either cross at the pelican crossing and walk down the wide path, or to take the Janet Street road down.
So while Pennyland may be the favourite for many, the mart site cannot just be ruled out without seeing the intended infrastructure plan.
Any thoughts?
pentlander
04-Apr-07, 09:12
I've recently returned to the county after several years down south and I have to admit I'm not quite up to speed on the ASDA debate yet. I think it would be great to have an ASDA here.
Can one of you seasoned ASDA campaigners out there let me know - are the two sites similar in size? My instinct is that the old mart site is by far the most sensible option for all the reasons Rheghead and Stargazer have said... the main thing against it in my opinion is that it doesn't seem a very big site for a superstore. Does anyone know the acreage figures for the two sites?
There is plenty of room at the mart site. The proposed Asda is half the size
of Wick Tesco.
crashbandicoot1979
04-Apr-07, 09:43
Bobinovich, I agree - I would love to see a plan of what they propose to do to the Ormlie Road area before ruling it out. I'm not a fan of supermarkets being located outwith towns - the mart isn't exactly in the town centre but I think in that respect, it would be a better option although I would definitely need to get a better idea of how the road structure would be laid out.
I always thought that the mart site was too small but now that all the pens are down its easier to get an idea of how big the site is and I would say that its ample. And whats the alternative? Yet more houses for a town thats buckling under the strain as it is, or a supermarket? I know which I would prefer.
Well I have to say I am not going to object to Asda in any shape or form at whatever site they choose. I think there are pros and cons for each site - but I definitely don't want to put them off all together - really looking forward to them coming actually even a little Asda - don't mind!
I always thought that the mart site was too small but now that all the pens are down its easier to get an idea of how big the site is and I would say that its ample. And whats the alternative? Yet more houses for a town thats buckling under the strain as it is, or a supermarket? I know which I would prefer.
The mart site is quite big actually, it's much more than just the area that had the stock pens.
As I am formerly used to having a huge Asda superstore (for e.g., somewhere between 12 and 16 times the size of Lidl in Thurso), two Tesco superstores, two Sainsburys superstores, a Waitrose superstore, and Aldi superstore, Netto, Lidl and Morissons superstores about 7 miles away and about a couple of dozen other smaller food stores and smaller supermarkets all just within a 5 to 10 minute car journey (let alone what became available if one journeyed for 25 minutes) I find that there is not the selection available that I used to have. I am not complaining (exactly), just commenting on the fact. Predictably, the cost of general supplies including foodstuffs, general hardware and furniture was about a third of the price that it is in Caithness.
Tesco were recently criticised on Radio Scotland and The Guardian (which they denied of course - they always deny anything you level at them unless there's no way they can get out of it) that they were exploiting their market dominance and not providing the range of cheaper products in areas where they had little competition that they would feel obliged to provide in areas where they had stronger competition. As I check out online shopping in Tesco for delievery within Thurso to that which I could get delivered to my old address I found a number of cheaper products that I used to buy that I could get delivered to my old address that they do not sell in the Wick branch. So much for not exploiting their market dominance.
Asda offer an excellent range of products, many of which are greatly superior (IMO) to those from Tesco, they have a far more responsible and caring attitude towards their staff and the staff are much happier for it. It's a bonus that I found them overall to be cheaper than Tesco too.
When the huge Asda was built (amazingly quickly) in Stevenage, there was some traffic disruption for a short while and the road entrance coming off of a critical dual-carriageway had all the hallmarks of being likely to cause a major nuisance for ever onwards. In practise it made the road considerably safer for pedestrians and was designed with great regard for safety and the surrounding environment.... and right next to the Stevenage Campus of the North Hertfordshire College.
It would be amazingly short-sighted IMO to take the view before the event that we will lose a couple of kids a week in traffic accidents if an Asda superstore is built in Thurso, and in terms of refusing therefore the option on slightly increasing the available choice of produce, not to mention encouraging dearly beloved Tesco to stop their so-called non-exploitation of their market dominance and provide a proper choice now that they have some serious competition on the high street, objecting to an Asda superstore in Thurso would be a perpetual condemnation to higher prices at the mercy of Tesco and Lidl's whims and akin to cutting ones nose off to spite ones face.
Just my two cents worth. Sorry for my rather dry sense of humour. I believe it would be utterly crazy to object to Asda coming to Thurso, but rather I would be inclined to pave their way with red carpet.
The_man_from_del_monte
04-Apr-07, 12:56
With all the talk of "independence" on this forum of late I'm surprised that there is so much demand for an English supermarket chain ;) Surely there's a home grown supermarket chain that could be installed in Thurso?................
I think the mart location is a better option, noine of the alleged problems are difficult to get round, a simple traffic control system,be it traffic lights or a roundabout would solve most of them, in fact it would make it a lot easier on the traffic problems we already have! It would be in a site which is currently an eyesore and is within walking distance of our "social inclusion zone" in High Ormlie where many low income families do not have cars. All in all it would be pretty unobtrusive (apart for the occupants of the houses across the road of course!). Personnally I can see Asda deciding its too much hassle to bother with Caithness at this rate!
With all the talk of "independence" on this forum of late I'm surprised that there is so much demand for an English supermarket chain ;) Surely there's a home grown supermarket chain that could be installed in Thurso?................
I agree that any increase in choice of shops would be a great thing to have, both in terms of providing a wider product range and mainly in helping to keep prices lower, but talking of 'low', Wm Low's is now part of Tesco - do you have a Scottish supermarket chain in mind ?
As a by the by, you'd think that a Scottish chain would supply Scottish products cheaper within Scotland. In practise there were a number of Scottish products that I used to buy in the South-East of England that were considerably cheaper than they are here, some of them were only half the price in fact.
Btw, Asda are American owned and part of the worlds's largest supermarket chain 'Walmart', and I was informed that their background was in dairy produce hence the name ASsociated DAiries or ASDA for short, somewhat akin to the ideals that the unCo-Operative Society seem to have abandoned.
The_man_from_del_monte
04-Apr-07, 13:26
do you have a Scottish supermarket chain in mind ?
Can't think of one nope ;)
Btw, Asda are American owned and part of the worlds's largest supermarket chain 'Walmart'
Forgot about that, they "were" an English company.
and I was informed that their background was in dairy produce hence the name ASsociated DAiries or ASDA for short, somewhat akin to the ideals that the unCo-Operative Society seem to have abandoned.
ASDA was formed back in 1965 when Associated Dairies and the Asquith brothers' supermarket chain Queen's, came together. Not much room left for them in England, seems Scotland and Wales are the places for them to expand their empire:
http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t69/pinkfloyd2007_bucket/asdagif.gif
Forgot about that, they "were" an English company.
yes, but as most of my shopping these days to increase the German coffers of Europe's largest discount superstore chain (Lidl) I've given up shopping by country of origin of the store - with a certain amount of reluctance and have been forced to resign myself to acceptance of the fact that 'beggars can't be choosers'.
Unfortunately the way these commercial giants treat customers these days I find we are practically begging them to come and sell to us and then begging them to keep their prices reasonable. They, on the other hand seem to adopt the concept my Dad used to tell me of 'you get what you're given'.
I've given up caring where my money goes these days as they're all as bad as each other and, all I would like from them is to spend as little as possible of it on life's essentials to leave as much as possible for life's little luxuries. Any increase in competition is a very good thing for the consumer - it usually leads to a lower prices and a better selection. A Morissons superstore wouldn't be such a bad thing either, although they're nothing like as cheap as Asda.
Hi Rheghead
Putting all the extra traffic in that area that a large retail store will draw is asking for trouble. If you are looking at the 2 sites head to head, one is surrounded by schools, train station, funeral parlour, college, dentists, nursery's etc etc. It already has 3 manned school crossings and one unmanned within 200mts of the site. The site I am supporting has NONE!! of these problems, Sorry one manned crossing about 400mts away.
and don't worry we all play devils advocate at times ;)
All WHAT extra traffic, are you talking about. The population of the two top counties, Caithness and Sutherland is only 42,000 ish. If they all turned up at once, it would still not create much of a traffic jam.
I have never seen a traffic jam up here, not at any time of the day, and that includes School turning out time. After a lifetime on the road, it is bliss.
However I believe what you are doing is in the best interests of this community, and I am happy to follow the lead of the majority.
And ASDA can only be good for Caithness. I went into Somerfields this morning, no bread, so I went to TESCO and spent my money there.
I agree, you are not going to see any massive traffic problems, do you have traffic problems due to somerfields and co-op ? nope
And yes part of the appeal of living back home is partly to get away from traffic jams, hold ups etc, 7 miles to city centre but it takes me 45 minutes on a saturday and can be over a hour on week day mornings !
Humerous Vegetable
04-Apr-07, 17:57
But is the mart site big enough for a filling station. Is a filling station part of Miller's supermarket planning proposal?
elastic band
04-Apr-07, 19:00
just a quickie to say i am fully supportive of Asda coming to Thurso and feel the focus should be less on where its going and more on when. I want more choice and value for my hard earned money.
Tugmistress
04-Apr-07, 20:43
But is the mart site big enough for a filling station. Is a filling station part of Miller's supermarket planning proposal?
Application 07/0038/OUTCA
Erection of a (class 1) retail store, petrol filling station, class 9 housing, parking, landscaping, servicing, access and internal roads. Thurso Auction Mart, Ormlie Road, Thurso.
Loch not Lock
04-Apr-07, 23:12
I am in no doubt that ASDA will be built at Pennyland; I just wish they would get a move on. The old mart would be ideal for a small retail park with stores such as TK MAXX, B&Q, BOOTS, WATERSTONES, MAPLINS and MACDONALDS. Traders - the oppertunity is there - seize it!
Thurso would then be a complete town and that arduous and dangerous drive to Inverness would decrease appreciably and also be advantageous for the environment.
How can anyone disagree with this suggestion.
Loch not Lock
04-Apr-07, 23:20
The majority of goods for the retail park could come by rail which is another plus.:)
McDonalds, no thanks, apart from the reason i think they are crap, Every mcd's brings litter strewn every where but the local youths who see it as a major task to open a car door and walk to the bin, god forbid, they just toss it out the window !
Maplins, would be great, but... as much as you may think it is an ideal location, i somehow dont think maplins would feel the same way, even Aberdeen only has a small store.
Waterstones, i cant see there being enough of a profit in it for them.
Boots is a possible but again no doubt some one has done their sums
Putting a MacDonalds next to a school sounds like good planning for fat kids.
I am in no doubt that ASDA will be built at Pennyland; I just wish they would get a move on. The old mart would be ideal for a small retail park with stores such as TK MAXX, B&Q, BOOTS, WATERSTONES, MAPLINS and MACDONALDS. Traders - the oppertunity is there - seize it!
Thurso would then be a complete town and that arduous and dangerous drive to Inverness would decrease appreciably and also be advantageous for the environment.
How can anyone disagree with this suggestion.
You want to have a read of the following book:
Shopped-Shocking-Power-British-Supermarkets [0007158041]
Written by Johanna Blythman.
It's not speculation - it has happened in so many places already.
pentlander
05-Apr-07, 08:59
I cannot understand why people are so obsessed with these big stores.
One of the benefits I think of living in Caithness is that it is different and not the same as other places in th UK.
Whats wrong with being a sleepy wee town? Why does everyone want things now or open 24hrs.
I value my quality of life far more than 2p a litre or the ability to buy organic beans at 2 in the morning. Big retail parks you can keep em.
In the grand scheme of things these shops will give us nothing we dont already have access to.
Maybe its because some people would rather put that 2p saved in every litre to better use, instead of lining the pockets of local retailers.
But why would you go buying organic beans at 2 am ? :eek:
I cannot understand why people are so obsessed with these big stores.
One of the benefits I think of living in Caithness is that it is different and not the same as other places in th UK.
Whats wrong with being a sleepy wee town? Why does everyone want things now or open 24hrs.
I value my quality of life far more than 2p a litre or the ability to buy organic beans at 2 in the morning. Big retail parks you can keep em.
In the grand scheme of things these shops will give us nothing we dont already have access to.
Pentlander whilst I agree that the very last thing one would want to do it create another "Little England" in the Scottish highlands, I think that for the essentials.... food and fuel at least, stronger competition and greater variety would even be gladly utilised by everyone, even those who disagree with the idea.
I'll agree that 24 hour shopping is for most people a luxury they maybe don't need, but society moves towards a more comfortable and convenient lifestyle and as those people who have switched from solid fuel to central heating have discovered, sometimes it's really nice not to have to clean out the fireplace and wait for two hours before the living room warms up. This is the much vaunted 'progress' of the 21st century and perhaps it's not all bad. The changes of a 'modern' lifestyle sure beat getting up at 4 a.m. to start plowing a field in the dark I'm sure!
You'd have to be rich or seriously bloody-minded to deliberately choose to pay through the nose for basic food supplies on idealistic grounds. Those people who always buy organic, Scottish or British at least, local, fair-trade, environment-friendly, dolphin-friendly, vegetarian etc are making lifestyle choices from their luxury of being in a state of affluence. I am sure that those people who watch where every penny is going because they have no choice in the matter will welcome the chance to spend less on basic foodstuffs to remain alive, so that they can afford to buy the odd bottle of wine, or save for a new freezer or a washing machine.
I believe it is necessary to take a broader view on such life-changing events as the opening of a major consumables suppplier, i.e. to examine it in terms of the benefits (and disadvantages naturally) to the community as a whole without restricting ones viewpoint to ones own situation.
pentlander
05-Apr-07, 11:08
Pentlander whilst I agree that the very last thing one would want to do it create another "Little England" in the Scottish highlands, I think that for the essentials.... food and fuel at least, stronger competition and greater variety would even be gladly utilised by everyone, even those who disagree with the idea.
I'll agree that 24 hour shopping is for most people a luxury they maybe don't need, but society moves towards a more comfortable and convenient lifestyle and as those people who have switched from solid fuel to central heating have discovered, sometimes it's really nice not to have to clean out the fireplace and wait for two hours before the living room warms up. This is the much vaunted 'progress' of the 21st century and perhaps it's not all bad. The changes of a 'modern' lifestyle sure beat getting up at 4 a.m. to start plowing a field in the dark I'm sure!
You'd have to be rich or seriously bloody-minded to deliberately choose to pay through the nose for basic food supplies on idealistic grounds. Those people who always buy organic, Scottish or British at least, local, fair-trade, environment-friendly, dolphin-friendly, vegetarian etc are making lifestyle choices from their luxury of being in a state of affluence. I am sure that those people who watch where every penny is going because they have no choice in the matter will welcome the chance to spend less on basic foodstuffs to remain alive, so that they can afford to buy the odd bottle of wine, or save for a new freezer or a washing machine.
I believe it is necessary to take a broader view on such life-changing events as the opening of a major consumables suppplier, i.e. to examine it in terms of the benefits (and disadvantages naturally) to the community as a whole without restricting ones viewpoint to ones own situation.
Thats a well argued point and one I can find little to strongly disagree with.
What I would say however that this process is only the beginning of the change we will all see in our shopping habits over the next ten years.
As independant smaller retailers are forced out of business we will be forced to eat only what these big companies decide to supply us. They look for maximum return and products that just tick over will be dropped for those with greater profit margins.
This whole thing is pretty inevitable and the worst part about it is, particulary in Caithness, peolple cannot wait for it to happen.
I personally have lived and worked all over the UK and you could drop me by parachute into most high streets in Britain and I would have no idea where I was. Everywhere is getting to be the same. Samer product same prices same shops. It's boring if nothing else.
The convenience of big stores cannot be questioned and the reason they are so profitable is because they are dam good at what they do. I just hate the predictable sameness of it all and fine it hard to get myself excited as most appear to be about a supermarket.
The convenience of big stores cannot be questioned and the reason they are so profitable is because they are dam good at what they do. I just hate the predictable sameness of it all and fine it hard to get myself excited as most appear to be about a supermarket.[/quote]
I don't think people are excited about the Supermarkets coming to Caithness.
They are excited about the choice that has/will come with them.
This also alleviates the local stores that think nothing of fleecing the customer who has no choice but to shop with them.
Yes the marketing execs are brilliant, but that is what they are paid for, and even Supermarkets will only survive if they give value for money. WHICH THEY DO!
The_man_from_del_monte
05-Apr-07, 13:50
I personally have lived and worked all over the UK and you could drop me by parachute into most high streets in Britain and I would have no idea where I was.
Very well said and very true.... you could be "anywhere" with each town centre looking exactly the same, even the shops are positioned in the exact same places! Supermarkets are one thing but these other huge "sheds" are another and cropping up all over the place at an alarming rate.... the "bed" shed, B&Q, footwear sheds, DIY sheds.... all types of HUGE sheds. I'd rather buy a good quality, unique, pair of shoes from a small exclusive specialist than have to walk about wearing the same uncomfortable pile em high sell em low shoes everyone else has got on but the way things are going the only choice any of us will have is to buy from one of these out of town "sheds". Far from offering "choice" these places offer same old and the streets of Britain are slowly starting to resemble communist China with everyone walking about wearing the same stuff, going home and eating the same pre-packed dinners, decorating their homes with the same cheap pre packed furniture...... argh! These places offer less choice, not more... more cheap same old rubbish maybe but certainly useless if you're looking for something a bit different / good quality.
ok folks, the time is narrowing for the public enquiry for the ASDA development at Pennyland Farm in Thurso, and your help is needed again if you want this to happen.
Miller Developments are using the Auction Mart site as a 'blocker' proposing the planning application of a supermarket site there. I don't know about anyone else but I reckon with the two schools and the train station there and also a fairly popular builders yard, any supermarket development is only going to create a lot more hazardous conditions for residents and kids.
I am going to send the below as an objection of this, please feel free to use this as a draft for yourselves if you want to object too. Pennyland has got to be the site of choice for me personally, it's a lot better location and as for the increase in traffic there, there is a lot more scope for things to be done to the roads and a pathway made than the mart site.
We have until this weekend to get letters and emails in to the office.
please address snail mail to
Mr I Ewart
Highland Council
Planning & Building Standards
Council Offices
Wick
KW1 4AB
Planning Application Reference No - 07/00038/OUTCA
and i will find out the email addy and edit it into my post here. iain.ewart@highland.gov.uk
Deadline is Friday 6th April
my letter ...
Dear Mr Ewart,
I would like you to note my objection to the Erection of a (class 1) retail store, petrol filling station, class 9 housing, parking, landscaping, servicing, access and internal roads. Thurso Auction Mart, Ormlie Road, Thurso.
This is a very busy area already with a primary school and secondary school and college within half a mile or so each way. I feel the safety of the children would be put at risk if this planning were to go ahead with the obvious increase in heavy vehicles travelling there as well as normal consumer traffic. Also there is the train station next to the site and bus depot, the road system has nowhere to expand to cope with the increase in traffic.
I hope you will consider this objection seriously and consider not approving the application.
Yours Faithfully
If its a busy road in a area with lots of children then the area should be 20mph zone and you should be welcoming asda with open arms rather than putting the spanner in the works asda will create jobs and most importantly create more competition in the area something thurso desperately needs instead having to put up with coop and somerfield
This also alleviates the local stores that think nothing of fleecing the customer who has no choice but to shop with them.
When the local stores close, the supermarkets will also think nothing of fleecing the customer who has no choice but to shop with them.
Bobinovich
05-Apr-07, 20:54
I would imagine the Internet has a lot to do with keeping prices down.
Just out of interest, and by means of a comparison, does anyone know if Tesco's online prices are the same as the in-store prices in Wick or is the site totally non-regional? If it's the latter then surely they wouldn't get away with raising local store prices.
I would imagine the Internet has a lot to do with keeping prices down.
Just out of interest, and by means of a comparison, does anyone know if Tesco's online prices are the same as the in-store prices in Wick or is the site totally non-regional? If it's the latter then surely they wouldn't get away with raising local store prices.
They were recently accused of raising prices in areas where they had near total market dominance... an allegation which they stenuously denied. My observation is that while the allegation certainly used to be true (I have gone to two different Tescos on the same day in two entirely different positions relative to regional marketplace dominance and seen identical items at different prices) it's possible that they have stopped doing that sort of thing.... recently.
I've not noticed the price of internet delivered Tesco products being different from that in-store.
I get the impression that there are various powers that be (and journalists) keeping an eye on Tesco. If they abide by their recent denial then their prices should be the same across the UK.
They do interesting things when they 'get together' with the other supermarket chains though. Around 6 months ago I watched the price of a 500g tub of low-fat Greek-style Natural yoghurt rise from 45p to 78p in Tesco - overnight, and within about 3 days Sainsburys and Asda matched their price. There's obviously no such thing as a cartel!
Oh dearie me- will it never stop?
Up north on a visit from London- where I shop in Waitrose and Sainsbury- when I have to.
I was talking with a good friend who tells me that the Asda at the mart will be most appreciated by the pupils of THS, who will no doubt try to smuggle in lots of unhealthy grub from there in defiance of the school's healthy eating policy. He also tells me that the Wick Tesco is most frequented by.....wait for it- Thurso residents!
Another friend from Wick wishes they'd build a Macdonalds/pizza hut/Burger king complex outside the town- so decent people who like a walk of an evening wouldn't have to trip over oiks camped out on the pavement in Bridge street throwing chips to seagulls in order to get them killed.
No doubt everyone will be happy when both towns have an Asda, Tesco,Aldi, Sainsbury and there won't be enough money to make it worth their while staying open.
Cheerio
When the local stores close, the supermarkets will also think nothing of fleecing the customer who has no choice but to shop with them.
I don't think so, no more than I believe Tescos is the reason for Millers pet shop or other Thurso stores are closing. Being used as an excuse, but not the reason.
AS I have said before; The Stores that look after their customers, and are prepared to offer Service and Civility will survive against any competition that is fair. The Supermarkets also need competition. Look at the mess that Somerfields and the Coop have made in Caithness. They need a good Kick up the backside, and they did not cause local stores to close, but I'll bet you had the same ruckas when they said they were coming here.
We live in the 21st century- a time when all towns- large or small largely look the same- and have the same shops, selling the same goods and unless you live in really fashionable quarters which want specialist stores like FreshnWild in London's Notting Hill, that boils down to cheapo supermarkets like Asda, and the not so cheap like Waitrose.
Lots of established business- that used to be the centre of lots of Scots towns like House of Fraser- and in Aberdeen E&M have closed down. Remember dear old Arnotts in Inverness anyone? Those places did have their uses- like stocking Planet/ Precis etc. Where are petite ladies going to buy their clothes? I don't see many outlets for them in Tesco/Asda. And do dressmakers who can alter things still exist?
The little guys never set out to make much cash from anyone- they just wanted a living wage for them and their families and workers. Most of the smaller businesses in Wick closed because the families didn't want to have to run a small business at a loss. I can cite at least six shops that closed due to this, and I suspect a lot more will follow.
No-one noticed the Co-op and Somerfield much because the firms had been in the town for over 50 years- as Liptons or CWS. They just took on bigger spaces.
Tesco/Asda will be welcomed no doubt but on this trip north I didn't see a huge cut in the price of petrol- 92p per litre?
There is however a bonus- the number of Thurso people who spend all their weekends in Wick, and the rest of the week complaining what a messy, horrible place it is- apart from Homebase and Tesco.
peter macdonald
07-Apr-07, 13:18
"Tesco/Asda will be welcomed no doubt but on this trip north I didn't see a huge cut in the price of petrol- 92p per litre?"
where were comparing this price to? What you have to do in Wick is compare it with places such as Lochinver and Durness as a couple of years ago fuel was cheaper there than it was in Wick!!!
"No-one noticed the Co-op and Somerfield much because the firms had been in the town for over 50 years- as Liptons or CWS. They just took on bigger spaces"
When the Coop moved to its supermarket n Thurso Road almost all the small shops in Pulteney shut quickly afterwords Why ?? because the Coop were selling a range of basic items cheaper than the small shops could buy them them from their wholeseller I know of at least one of these shop owners whose wife used to shop in the Coop because of this
"Lots of established business- that used to be the centre of lots of Scots towns like House of Fraser- and in Aberdeen E&M have closed down. Remember dear old Arnotts in Inverness anyone? Those places did have their uses- like stocking Planet/ Precis etc. Where are petite ladies going to buy their clothes? I don't see many outlets for them in Tesco/Asda. And do dressmakers who can alter things still exist?"
No probably not but Arnotts etc were in Inverness not Caithness !! In other words folks had a 210 mile round trip to use them Hence why many people made the journey or used mail order
"We live in the 21st century- a time when all towns- large or small largely look the same- "
Well if we are honest the individuallity of Wicks centre was destroyed in the late 60s and 70s when the decision was made to knock down certain buildings and build a supermarket for Lipton/Presto now occupied by Boots In my opinion it was disgraceful piece of vandalism supported by councillors who had neither vision or taste but that is another story
Tesco/Asda will be welcomed no doubt but on this trip north I didn't see a huge cut in the price of petrol- 92p per litre?
I agree with Peter (message above mine) - where are you comparing this to? Tesco base their prices to compete with other fuel stations locally (as businesses do with any product/service they are selling within a community) and this is a good price.
However, if I was to compare it to fuel where my parents live (Welsh/English borders - 540 miles away!) then it is expensive.
I don't think so, no more than I believe Tescos is the reason for Millers pet shop or other Thurso stores are closing.
Is that the shop on the corner of Castlegreen road? I tried to buy a few tins of catfood there but was told they don't sell catfood.:confused
Bobinovich
07-Apr-07, 17:42
Millers Pet Shop is the one on Princes Street just round the corner from Castlegreen Road and across the road from the Railway Station.
The shop you're describing (corner of Castlegreen Road) sounds more like Frasers.
Tesco's fuel in Inverness is cheaper than in Wick. This is the reference.
Inverness is also known as Tesco-town. I think you might find the town centre there, including the Eastgatge suffered when the out of town retail parks were built.
My part of London (my husband's stamping ground) is mainly a Waitrose/Sainsbury area- the quality is better and the prices a tad higher- and the locals wouldn't be seen dead in Asda- which surprises me. Thurso was always rather more upmarket that Wick, so why aren't Thurso residents demanding a Waitrose/Sainsbury? I'd have thought that Wick fitted the Asda demography. Or has Thurso gone downmarket these days?
And while we are on such subjects- why does no retailer in Caithness stock maternity wear/petite clothing/ clothing for tall persons?
I don't think so, no more than I believe Tescos is the reason for Millers pet shop or other Thurso stores are closing. Being used as an excuse, but not the reason.
AS I have said before; The Stores that look after their customers, and are prepared to offer Service and Civility will survive against any competition that is fair. The Supermarkets also need competition. Look at the mess that Somerfields and the Coop have made in Caithness. They need a good Kick up the backside, and they did not cause local stores to close, but I'll bet you had the same ruckas when they said they were coming here.
It has been shown that no matter how keen your prices are in the high street, once people shop at the big out of town store for the rest of their requirements - they stop shopping in the town completely.
You can expect more boarded up shops in the high street which will also have a knock on effect on the tourist industry.
Pretty soon, all you'll have to advertise is:
"Come to Thurso/Wick - the most northerly Tesco/Asda/Sainsburys in the UK"
Pretty soon, all you'll have to advertise is:
"Come to Thurso/Wick - the most northerly Tesco/Asda/Sainsburys in the UK"
Very funny!! [lol] mind you, I don't think that tourists come to Caithness & Sutherland for the shopping as it is.
Might make for an added bonus! and in 30 years time when they don't know what to do with the Dounreay site, they could always turn it into a Calais Style Hypermarket with ferries to Norway and Iceland. (OK, I was only joking).
Millers Pet Shop is the one on Princes Street just round the corner from Castlegreen Road and across the road from the Railway Station.
Is that the one that had the monkey stuck in a cage in the corner of the shop? I didn't like shopping there because of that that. One of the few times I was in looking at fish to buy there were loads lying dead in the tank. I never went back.
Boozeburglar
14-Apr-07, 20:38
[quote=bagpuss;My part of London (my husband's stamping ground) is mainly a Waitrose/Sainsbury area- the quality is better and the prices a tad higher- and the locals wouldn't be seen dead in Asda- [/quote]
If you are talking about Notting Hill then that is just not true, if there was an ASDA it would be very busy.
Sainsburys on Ladroke Grove is pretty reasonable price wise, much nearer Tesco prices than people may expect.
My wife is a local and we and her whole family would happily shop in ASDA, I just don't want one in Thurso.
Horses for courses...
My wife is a local and we and her whole family would happily shop in ASDA, I just don't want one in Thurso.
Why is it OK for the rest of UK to have an ASDA but not Caithness?:confused
Are we not good enough?
What is the current price for 3* unleaded and diesel up north just now?
I was in Morrisons today and noticed that 3* was 90.9 and diesel was 92.9, I only shopped at Morrisons, as they have a better deal on real ales just now than Asda. Asda are 3 for £4 that works out at £1.33 each, Morrisons were 4 for £5 thats £1.25 a bottle a better deal by half :cool:
Just came back from a trip to middle England which is dotted with small villages and towns from a few hundred to 10000+
Asda and Tesco have a big presence in cluster areas, yet at the same time the town centres have a mix of specialty, charity and other small shops. Specialist shops who provide quality products seem to be thriving which I feel is reflected in a thriving number of farmers markets.
If it can work there why not here?
What is the current price for 3* unleaded and diesel up north just now?
I was in Morrisons today and noticed that 3* was 90.9 and diesel was 92.9,
Will take a look but, but probably about the same in Wick. There is now a difference between Wick and Thurso (even in shops with the same owners) now that Tesco seems to be helping keep the prices down on one side of the county at least.
Boozeburglar
15-Apr-07, 01:12
Why is it OK for the rest of UK to have an ASDA but not Caithness?:confused
Are we not good enough?
If that is the way you view it I can't see what I will say would make a difference. I don't want Thurso to end up littered with supermarkets and such, no. I was responding to what I see as a misrepresentation of Notting Hill as some elitist enclave.
Thurso is too good in my opinion. There should be a concentration on regenerating the town in a much more dynamic way.
If you are talking about Notting Hill then that is just not true, if there was an ASDA it would be very busy.
Sainsburys on Ladroke Grove is pretty reasonable price wise, much nearer Tesco prices than people may expect.
My wife is a local and we and her whole family would happily shop in ASDA, I just don't want one in Thurso.
Horses for courses...took 2 mins to find
http://forum.caithness.org/showthread.php?p=182669#post182669
i love london .
dose it realy matter which supermarket comes to thurso. in the long run your not going to please every one no matter how hard you try. and going by the way this governt thinks they dont give a damm thely prommis you snow in the desert as long as you vote for them . these big stores are fine as long as you remember what you went in to buy but garunte you go out with goods that you think ar handy and ulll never use plus bet youve spent twise what you would spend .ah well iv had my rant for two nite good nite and may allways your lum reake
peter macdonald
15-Apr-07, 08:30
"There is now a difference between Wick and Thurso (even in shops with the same owners) now that Tesco seems to be helping keep the prices down on one side of the county at least."
Hmm Is that the "loyalty" the business community in Thurso means??? then they wonder why the natives get hacked off
PM
ps Im not tarring ALL business people in the county with the same brush there are some really genuine poeople out there
Word of advice. The rot has begun in Caithness. It works thus:
1)lots of people with no connection to the county arrive and take up residence- some placed there by social services, others sniffing out cheap property.
2) those people on regular journeys to nearest city/large town spend in big stores and their home location is flashed up in their loyalty cards
3) those stores start to consider how much of their custom comes from the area- and tip off the property developers
4) some spending on infra structure- new developments and hey presto- the stores arrive.
5) services- eg health, education, social work are stretched
6) town centres are first boarded up- then redeveloped- usually not as shops- but as houses
7) house prices soar- often beyond the purse of the locals
Yes- husband and I live in Notting Hill- in a very nice square. He's on the board of a multi national company and yes- I got this from him
It won't just be an Asda you'll be getting. You'll find every part of your lives will be affected. How long before Thurso/Wick won't be a one business (nuclear) centre- but full of people just waiting to see where the next new slot will be?
Boozeburglar
16-Apr-07, 00:52
Well maybe we can meet up for a shandy in the Market Bar, Portobello Road, to discuss these things?
I am amazed you think the 'locals' would not shop in an ASDA.
You haven't been a local long, have you?
;)
mary & finlay
18-Apr-07, 20:18
I think that ASDA coming to Thurso would be a breath of fresh air. The people of the town have over the past years been ripped off by the local shops,with over inflated prices etc.
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